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The Ultimate Averaged Chart - The BBC Chart Re-Imagined

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  • He worked with a lot of artists in his TV show and added his name to make them sell a bit more and start off. I think he did that with Kenny Ball in 1962 but am
    unsure….. I know he did something at that point like ‘lonnie donegan presents…’ but might have the artist wrong!
    http://thechartbook.co.uk - for the latest are best chart book - By Decade!
    Now including NME, Record Mirror and Melody Maker from the UK and some Billboard charts

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    • More BBC errors for 14/2/59: 19 Beverly Sisters - Little Drummer Boy (77)
      20= Tommy Dorsey - Tea For Two Cha Cha (78)
      20= Pat Boone - I'll Remember Tonight (78)

      Comment


      • Originally posted by braindeadpj View Post
        More BBC errors for 14/2/59: 19 Beverly Sisters - Little Drummer Boy (77)
        20= Tommy Dorsey - Tea For Two Cha Cha (78)
        20= Pat Boone - I'll Remember Tonight (78)
        Yeah you're right David the points totals doesn't justify their chart outcome yet again.
        The Record Mirror Singles Chart 1954 - 1961 Revised Re-Calculated And Extended

        The Biggest Chart Of The Fifties

        Comment


        • There were extra rules applied to the bottom of their chart which are on the BBC file and quoted by RokinRobin on the 'POTP/TOTP number ones' thread here. They must have been aware of the weakness of applying 21 points to the gaps.

          To be fair to the pore ol' Beeb, as soon as MM expanded to a Top 30 they started calculating 30 positions in order to make their Top 20 more robust. (This is often erroneously described as them enlarging to a BBC Top 30, but that didn't happen until the arrival of Radio 1 in 1967.)

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Splodj View Post
            There were extra rules applied to the bottom of their chart which are on the BBC file and quoted by RokinRobin on the 'POTP/TOTP number ones' thread here. They must have been aware of the weakness of applying 21 points to the gaps.

            To be fair to the pore ol' Beeb, as soon as MM expanded to a Top 30 they started calculating 30 positions in order to make their Top 20 more robust. (This is often erroneously described as them enlarging to a BBC Top 30, but that didn't happen until the arrival of Radio 1 in 1967.)
            This was another of my issues with the BBC chart multiple ties and multiple errors aside. The system of allocating every record not on a chart 21 points (or later 31 points) threw the spanner of inaccuracy into the works. Not every uncharted record could be #21 some would have been lower, some much lower. So in effect it produced a chart that veered away from being factually correct especially at the lower end. It actually made a mockery of the points system as they were actually awarding points for unknown chart positions.

            That is why I didn't even consider using this system for the UAC.
            The Record Mirror Singles Chart 1954 - 1961 Revised Re-Calculated And Extended

            The Biggest Chart Of The Fifties

            Comment


            • Greetings Pop Pickers

              ​​​​Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending February 21st 1959

              Here are all '' the uppers, the downers, the just hanging 'arounders '

              The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending February 21st 1959 NME MM DISC RM Total
              Last This The Sound Survey 75 25 40 60 Points
              Week Week The Top 30 Singles Chart BBC TOP 30 Scored
              4 1 As I Love You - Shirley Bassey 1 1 1 1 2 5940
              1 2 I Got Stung / One Night - Elvis Presley 2 2 2 2 1 5860
              6 3 Does Your Chewing Gum Lose It's Flavour - Lonnie Donegan 3 4 5 3 3 5475
              8 4 Smoke Gets In Your Eyes - The Platters 4 3 3 6 5 5360
              2 5 To Know Him Is To Love Him - The Teddy Bears 5 6 4 4 4 5250
              3 6 Kiss Me Honey Honey Kiss Me - Shirley Bassey 6 5 6 5 6 5115
              5 7 Baby Face - Little Richard 7 7 8 9 7 4695
              7 8 Problems - The Everly Brothers 8= 7 9 8 8 4650
              10 9 A Pub With No Beer - Slim Dusty 8= 9 7 7 9 4530
              13 10 (All Of A Sudden) My Heart Sings - Paul Anka 10= 12 14 12 10 3870
              11 11 High School Confidential - Jerry Lee Lewis 10= 14 11 10 13 3695
              9 12 The Day The Rains Came - Jane Morgan 13 10 12 15 15 3650
              16 13 The Little Drummer Boy - The Beverly Sisters 12 15 10 11 14 3545
              23 14 My Happiness - Connie Francis 14 16 16 16 11 3300
              17 15 Petite Fleur - Chris Barber 15 11 13 20 16 3290
              14 16 I'll Be With You In Apple Blossom Time - Rosemary June 16 17 17 14 16 2980
              15 17 Wee Tom - Lord Rockingham's XI 18 19 19 12 2520
              28 18 Gigi - Billy Eckstine 20 18 19 19 1995
              12 19 It's OnLy Make Believe - Conway Twitty 19 21 18 13 1795
              29 20 The Little Drummer Boy - The Harry Simeone Chorale 17 13 15 1750
              18 21 Chantilly Lace - The Big Bopper 23 20 1260
              NEW 22 Side Saddle - Russ Conway 23 17 1160
              26 23 Stagger Lee - Lloyd Price 29 18 930
              24 24 Tea For Two Cha-Cha - The Tommy Dorsey Orchestra 20 825
              21 25 I'll Remember Tonight - Pat Boone 22 675
              22 26 The World Outside - The Four Aces 29 18 670
              19 27 Livin' Lovin' Doll - Cliff Richard 23 600
              NEW 28 The Wonderful Secret Of Love - Robert Earl 28 20 500
              25 29 Tom Dooley - Lonnie Donegan 26 375
              RE 30 Tom Dooley - The Kingston Trio 27 300
              20 Hoots Mon - Lord Rockingham's XI
              27 You Always Hurt The One You Love - Connie Francis
              29 The World Outside - Ronnie Hilton
              The Record Mirror Singles Chart 1954 - 1961 Revised Re-Calculated And Extended

              The Biggest Chart Of The Fifties

              Comment


              • Originally posted by MrTibbs View Post
                That is why I didn't even consider using this system for the UAC.
                If anyone can produce a database tutorial showing that counting chart points up is any different than counting chart points down I would be fascinated to see it.

                The UAC is superior at the moment because it takes into account NMEs 21-30. When the BBC changed to calculating 30 positions it then had a Top 20 which contained very few records with an assumed 31 points. Their 21-30 calculations created a buffer zone to minimise this. ... Sorry, I'm beginning to sound like the BBCs defence attorney!

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Splodj View Post

                  The UAC is superior at the moment because it takes into account NMEs 21-30. When the BBC changed to calculating 30 positions it then had a Top 20 which contained very few records with an assumed 31 points. Their 21-30 calculations created a buffer zone to minimise this. ... Sorry, I'm beginning to sound like the BBCs defence attorney!
                  Ha Ha the UAC Top 30 doesn't have ANY records with an assumed 31 points (or 21 points as the case may be) so it didn't need a 'buffer zone' as it was factual all the way from #1 to #30. Every point was accounted for.
                  The Record Mirror Singles Chart 1954 - 1961 Revised Re-Calculated And Extended

                  The Biggest Chart Of The Fifties

                  Comment


                  • All I can say is that when I calculate an unweighted composite from a set of Top 30s, it doesn't make any difference whether I tally the points downwards (1-31) or upwards (0-30) - the result is exactly the same. Perhaps I am doing something wrong.

                    I am persuaded that the UAC is superior to the BBC chart in many ways in any case, so it doesn't really matter.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Splodj View Post
                      All I can say is that when I calculate an unweighted composite from a set of Top 30s, it doesn't make any difference whether I tally the points downwards (1-31) or upwards (0-30) - the result is exactly the same. Perhaps I am doing something wrong.

                      I am persuaded that the UAC is superior to the BBC chart in many ways in any case, so it doesn't really matter.
                      Applying 21 points for an unknown position (outside the top 20 on all the charts including the NME) when counting positions as the BBC did, has exactly the same effect as assigning no points for an out of the Top 20 chart position when using inverse points.

                      Comment


                      • hmmm, I don't quite agree David. I entered the #21 position for all missing places on the above chart for 21st February and re-calculated it and a couple of positions did change at the bottom end of the Top 20 and also some between 21 and 30.
                        The Record Mirror Singles Chart 1954 - 1961 Revised Re-Calculated And Extended

                        The Biggest Chart Of The Fifties

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by MrTibbs View Post
                          hmmm, I don't quite agree David. I entered the #21 position for all missing places on the above chart for 21st February and re-calculated it and a couple of positions did change at the bottom end of the Top 20 and also some between 21 and 30.
                          That is because the chart above is using the Top 30 for NME and not the Top 20. You'd have to assign 31 to everything outside the charts to be comparable with the UA
                          Last edited by braindeadpj; Wed May 18, 2022, 17:34.

                          Comment


                          • Gotcha, my apologies for jumping the gun before thinking it through.

                            I forgot that at this time the BBC only considered the NME Top Twenty and not Top Thirty as I did for the UAC so they also awarded 21 points to the NME also.
                            The Record Mirror Singles Chart 1954 - 1961 Revised Re-Calculated And Extended

                            The Biggest Chart Of The Fifties

                            Comment


                            • Also bear in mind the 'extra' BBC rules about the bottom end that Dave Taylor reported, as Robin relates here ...
                              https://www.ukmix.org/forum/chart-di...04#post9862904

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Splodj View Post
                                Also bear in mind the 'extra' BBC rules about the bottom end that Dave Taylor reported, as Robin relates here ...
                                https://www.ukmix.org/forum/chart-di...04#post9862904
                                This doesn't really explain the discrepancy in the BBC chart.for 14/2/1959 (the tied 20 position explanation for splitting) since The Beverly Sisters are actually at 19 and not 20 and are not tied.on points. Of the 2 that are tied in points at 20, the one included in the BBC chart (at 19) is actually declining (Tea for Two Cha Cha), while the other track (I'll Remember Tonight) would've been a new entry..
                                Last edited by braindeadpj; Wed May 18, 2022, 18:45.

                                Comment


                                • I agree, and it doesn't explain the previous ones - Frank Sinatra was also going down. However I think it may indicate they were aware of a problem at the bottom end and were groping around for a way of dealing with it. It will be interesting to see if it settles down to the rule Dave described.

                                  Comment


                                  • Originally posted by braindeadpj View Post

                                    This doesn't really explain the discrepancy in the BBC chart.for 14/2/1959 (the tied 20 position explanation for splitting) since The Beverly Sisters are actually at 19 and not 20 and are not tied.on points. Of the 2 that are tied in points at 20, the one included in the BBC chart (at 19) is actually declining (Tea for Two Cha Cha), while the other track (I'll Remember Tonight) would've been a new entry..
                                    Yeah although the BBC had so called 'rules' they were applied very liberally by them and even so many mistakes, like above example happened again and again with increasing regularity as per my commentary above.
                                    The Record Mirror Singles Chart 1954 - 1961 Revised Re-Calculated And Extended

                                    The Biggest Chart Of The Fifties

                                    Comment


                                    • Greetings Pop Pickers

                                      ​​​​Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending February 28th 1959

                                      Here are all '' the uppers, the downers, the just hanging 'arounders '

                                      The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending February 28th 1959 NME MM DISC RM Total
                                      Last This The Sound Survey 75 25 40 60 Points
                                      Week Week The Top 30 Singles Chart BBC TOP 30 Scored
                                      1 1 As I Love You - Shirley Bassey 1 1 2 1 2 5915
                                      4 2 Smoke Gets In Your Eyes - The Platters 2 2 1 5 1 5765
                                      2 3 I Got Stung / One Night - Elvis Presley 3 4 3 2 3 5565
                                      3 4 Does Your Chewing Gum Lose It's Flavour - Lonnie Donegan 4 3 4 6 4 5395
                                      9 5 A Pub With No Beer - Slim Dusty 5 6 7 3 6 5095
                                      6 6 Kiss Me Honey Honey Kiss Me - Shirley Bassey 6 5 6 4 8 5035
                                      5 7 To Know Him Is To Love Him - The Teddy Bears 7 7 5 7 5 4970
                                      15 8 Petite Fleur - Chris Barber 9= 8 10 11 7 4490
                                      13 9 The Little Drummer Boy - The Beverly Sisters 8 9 8 10 9 4385
                                      8 10 Problems - The Everly Brothers 9= 9 9 8 10 4380
                                      14 11 My Happiness - Connie Francis 12 12 13 12 11 3835
                                      10 12 (All Of A Sudden) My Heart Sings - Paul Anka 13 11 12 14 12 3795
                                      7 13 Baby Face - Little Richard 11 14 11 9 13 3735
                                      22 14 Side Saddle - Russ Conway 15 22 15 16 15 2635
                                      20 15 The Little Drummer Boy - The Harry Simeone Chorale 14 13 14 18 2295
                                      18 16 Gigi - Billy Eckstine 18 16 20 17 2240
                                      23 17 Stagger Lee - Lloyd Price 16= 15 14 2220
                                      16 18 I'll Be With You In Apple Blossom Time - Rosemary June 20 23 17 19 20 2090
                                      12 19 The Day The Rains Came - Jane Morgan 16= 16 19 15 2065
                                      NEW 20 Tomboy - Perry Como 19 18 1680
                                      11 21 High School Confidential - Jerry Lee Lewis 19 25 13 1170
                                      28 22 The Wonderful Secret Of Love - Robert Earl 18 975
                                      NEW 23 Wait For Me / Willingly - Malcolm Vaughan 28 19 945
                                      17 24 Wee Tom - Lord Rockingham's XI 16 900
                                      26 25 The World Outside - The Four Aces 24 18 850
                                      NEW 26 The Little Drummer Boy - Michael Flanders 20 825
                                      NEW 26 It Doesn't Matter Anymore - Buddy Holly 20 825
                                      25 28 I'll Remember Tonight - Pat Boone 27 20 740
                                      19 29 It's Only Make Believe - Conway Twitty 17 560
                                      NEW 30 Maybe Tomorrow - Billy Fury 26 375
                                      Beep Beep - The Playmates 16 375
                                      Manhattan Spiritual - Reg Owen 29 150
                                      The Love Game - The Mudlarks 30 75
                                      27 Livin' Lovin' Doll - Cliff Richard 30 75
                                      21 Chantilly Lace - The Big Bopper
                                      24 Tea For Two Cha-Cha - The Tommy Dorsey Orchestra
                                      29 Tom Dooley - Lonnie Donegan
                                      30 Tom Dooley The Kingston Trio
                                      The Record Mirror Singles Chart 1954 - 1961 Revised Re-Calculated And Extended

                                      The Biggest Chart Of The Fifties

                                      Comment


                                      • Disc are way off the mark with The Platters and in comes Buddy Holly heading for his only UK chart topper. Oh what might have been !
                                        The Record Mirror Singles Chart 1954 - 1961 Revised Re-Calculated And Extended

                                        The Biggest Chart Of The Fifties

                                        Comment


                                        • Funny how NME and RM were so different in how long they thought Shirley and The Platters were at number one. (RM not even giving Shirley one week!) In that respect Disc were straight down the middle, giving them each 3 weeks atop.

                                          Comment


                                          • Greetings Pop Pickers

                                            ​​​​Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending March 7th 1959

                                            Here are all '' the uppers, the downers, the just hanging 'arounders '

                                            The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending March 7th 1959 NME MM DISC RM Total
                                            Last This The Sound Survey 75 25 40 60 Points
                                            Week Week The Top 30 Singles Chart BBC TOP 30 Scored
                                            1 1 As I Love You - Shirley Bassey 1= 1 2 1 2 5915
                                            2 2 Smoke Gets In Your Eyes - The Platters 1= 2 1 2 1 5885
                                            5 3 A Pub With No Beer - Slim Dusty 3= 3 5 3 5 5430
                                            4 4 Does Your Chewing Gum Lose It's Flavour - Lonnie Donegan 3= 4 4 5 3 5420
                                            3 5 I Got Stung / One Night - Elvis Presley 5 7 3 4 4 5200
                                            6 6 Kiss Me Honey Honey Kiss Me - Shirley Bassey 6 5 8 6 11 4725
                                            14 7 Side Saddle - Russ Conway 7 8 7 10 6 4665
                                            8 8 Petite Fleur - Chris Barber 10 6 11 11 8 4555
                                            9 9 The Little Drummer Boy - The Beverly Sisters 8= 9 9 8 9 4440
                                            11 10 My Happiness - Connie Francis 11 10 12 9 7 4370
                                            7 11 To Know Him Is To Love Him - The Teddy Bears 8= 12 6 7 10 4270
                                            10 12 Problems - The Everly Brothers 12= 12 13 12 13 3715
                                            12 13 (All Of A Sudden) My Heart Sings - Paul Anka 12= 11 10 14 15 3665
                                            17 14 Stagger Lee - Lloyd Price 15 15 15 16 12 3340
                                            13 15 Baby Face - Little Richard 14 14 14 13 16 3320
                                            26 16 It Doesn't Matter Anymore - Buddy Holly 16 17 18 17 14 2955
                                            16 17 Gigi - Billy Eckstine 20 19 19 18 2160
                                            15 18 The Little Drummer Boy - The Harry Simeone Chorale 17= 16 16 18 2020
                                            19 19 The Day The Rains Came - Jane Morgan 17= 18 17 15 1965
                                            20 20 Tomboy - Perry Como 19 20 19 17 1965
                                            NEW 21 Manhattan Spiritual - Reg Owen 23 19 1320
                                            18 22 I'll Be With You In Apple Blossom Time - Rosemary June 25 20 20 1165
                                            22 23 The Wonderful Secret Of Love - Robert Earl 21 750
                                            30 24 Maybe Tomorrow - Billy Fury 22 675
                                            NEW 25 C'mon Everybody - Eddie Cochran 20 660
                                            RE 26 The World Outside - Russ Conway 24 525
                                            28 27 I'll Remember Tonight - Pat Boone 26 375
                                            26 28 The Little Drummer Boy - Michael Flanders 27 300
                                            RE 29 Livin' Lovin' Doll - Cliff Richard 28 225
                                            NEW 30 Donna - Ritchie Valens 29 150
                                            Donna - Marty Wilde 30 75
                                            21 High School Confidential - Jerry Lee Lewis
                                            23 Wait For Me / Willingly - Malcolm Vaughan
                                            24 Wee Tom - Lord Rockingham's XI
                                            25 The World Outside - The Four Aces
                                            29 It's Only Make Believe - Conway Twitty
                                            The Record Mirror Singles Chart 1954 - 1961 Revised Re-Calculated And Extended

                                            The Biggest Chart Of The Fifties

                                            Comment


                                            • Numbers 1 and 2 were obviously close sales wise this week.
                                              Slim Dusty's 'Pub' was really popular and probably the most sung and performed song by all the amateur performers in the pubs and clubs at the time.
                                              Winifred Atwell must have been seriously p****d off at the time. Russ Conway stole her thunder not only in stand alone piano hits but copied her formula of piano medleys too and swept her aside in 1959.

                                              I have to express my eternal disappointment that in 1959 the beautiful, haunting, heart wrenching, 'Since I Don't Have You' by The Skyliners was totally ignored over here. It is one of my very favourite records of any era and still blows me away.
                                              The Record Mirror Singles Chart 1954 - 1961 Revised Re-Calculated And Extended

                                              The Biggest Chart Of The Fifties

                                              Comment


                                              • Interesting to see how the Shirls/Platters battle is played out in the UAC. So far it looks like reflecting a Disc-type middle way!

                                                It may be that sales of the two were close but, after looking at those Gallup figures, alternatively it may be that one or more charts were way out and simply wrong. (In 84 we are coming up to a Phil Collins record that was number one for 4 weeks in MM and I shall be looking to see how close the sales were.) In this case it could be that one of them was a long term number one and the other not at all or for only 1 week - as NME and RM claim.

                                                Comment


                                                • 19 29 It's Only Make Believe - Conway Twitty
                                                  NEW 30 Maybe Tomorrow - Billy Fury

                                                  Did Billy Fury not record It's only make believe, or is that a different song?

                                                  Comment


                                                  • Billy’s version hit the charts July 64 and climbed to 10.

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