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The Ultimate Averaged Chart - The BBC Chart Re-Imagined

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  • Splodj
    replied
    Great info.

    I suppose you know that Feb-59 was a special time for British records, because 3 of them were in the upper echelons of the Billboard chart simultaneously - inciuding that Chris Barber one you mention.

    Leave a comment:


  • MrTibbs
    replied
    Originally posted by Splodj View Post
    When the NME chart book came out they said it included some corrections. Have these been identified?
    I don't know if they were corrected in later volumes but in the first edition the following were omitted that I am immediately aware off.

    1952 20th December Kay Starr Comes-A-Long-A-Love from #3
    1959 28th February Petite Fleur Chris Barber from #8

    But the first volume also corrected the following error made in the paper at the time.

    1972 25th March Donnie Elbert I Can't Help Myself which in the book was slotted in as extra #10 with Floy Joy by The Supremes.

    In 1974 19th January Diana Ross All Of My Life was omitted from the paper and was added in later as an extra #17 with Street Life by Roxy Music.

    Leave a comment:


  • kingofskiffle
    replied
    Originally posted by Splodj View Post
    When the NME chart book came out they said it included some corrections. Have these been identified?
    I am not aware of them all - I think it was some of the weeks when entries were omitted (Such as the week Russ Conway Got A Match charted at 30 and yet didn't....)



    Leave a comment:


  • Splodj
    replied
    There is a very peculiar claim across the web that 'Livin Lovin Doll' was released to pretend that he was fulfilling an obligation to release 'Livin Doll' - as if they wouldn't notice the difference!

    ------

    When the NME chart book came out they said it included some corrections. Have these been identified?

    Leave a comment:


  • MrTibbs
    replied
    Originally posted by brian05 View Post
    15 27 High Class Baby - Cliff Richard

    NEW 28 Livin' Lovin' Doll - Cliff Richard

    A much weaker follow-up to his previous hits. A long wait for his first number one?
    I agree Brian but two absolute belters to follow this year.

    Leave a comment:


  • brian05
    replied
    15 27 High Class Baby - Cliff Richard

    NEW 28 Livin' Lovin' Doll - Cliff Richard

    A much weaker follow-up to his previous hits. A long wait for his first number one?

    Leave a comment:


  • Splodj
    replied
    One obvious difference is that the BBC is only counting NMEs top 20. For example, Connie Francis is given only 21 points for NME instead of 26. But neither way is ideal; you really need all 4 inputting Top 30s or more for a robust Top 20 output.

    Leave a comment:


  • MrTibbs
    replied
    Yet another calculation/transcript error on the BBC chart again this week.

    I think by now it is blatantly obvious that the level of errors in calculation on the BBC chart far exceeds the level previously thought to be the case. This has only been brought to light because the UAC compilation has initiated a level of scrutiny on the BBC figures previously not undertaken. Until this the figures have been totally accepted and taken at face value.

    At the onset my goal was to produce an averaged music paper chart that aside from averaging out simple chart positions, as done by the BBC chart, would also be made more robust by factoring in approximate numbers of shop dealer returns as well as not all charts were equal in that respect. This 'extra level' was designed to eradicate the large number of ties that existed in the BBC chart and to correct the few known errors that were already known to exist within the BBC chart.

    But now we know differently following this exercise. The BBC chart can no longer be accepted as a robust, accurate, or viable chart for reference purposes as it seriously flawed both in compilation and authority.
    Furthermore I have just pointed out the obvious errors that jumped out of the page at me when transferring the figures to the spreadsheet for the UAC. There are obviously lots more if you look even closer as David (braindeadpj) discovered and mentions above.

    So, for those of us who like me believe an averaged chart best represents this time period before actual shop sales figures were used by the BMRB I'd like to think I have offered a suitable alternative by introducing the UAC. The BBC principle was correct but too simplistic and poorly executed. The UAC is far from perfect after all it's based on imperfect data from a points system in dealer returns to music papers. Human error would play a part in these returns, manipulation, flawed information downright untruths at times even. But that was the times and these are our only historical records of what was passing across counters at the time.

    That is why I believe the averaging process provides the most robust chart. At least if one paper gets it wrong, and they do, just look at any of the chart comparisons on the UAC page and you will see just how often that happens that one is out of sync with the others but the other papers help smooth this out to provide a more balanced chart.

    At least I'm satisfied that the UAC is as accurate as possible to the data provided. Being human and in dealing with multiple figures I too have made some errors along the way, some I noticed and corrected as I went along and others you picked up on and I corrected.
    I'm therefore satisfied the goal is being met the BBC has been not only been 're-imagined' but restructured as well.

    Leave a comment:


  • MrTibbs
    replied
    Greetings Pop Pickers

    ​​​​Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending February 7th 1959

    Here are all '' the uppers, the downers, the just hanging 'arounders '

    The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending February 7th 1959 NME MM DISC RM Total
    Last This The Sound Survey 75 25 40 60 Points
    Week Week The Top 30 Singles Chart BBC TOP 30 Scored
    1 1 I Got Stung / One Night - Elvis Presley 1 1 1 1 1 6000
    3 2 To Know Him Is To Love Him - The Teddy Bears * 3 2 2 3 3 5700
    2 3 Baby Face - Little Richard * 2 3 3 2 2 5700
    5 4 Kiss Me Honey Honey Kiss Me - Shirley Bassey 4 3 5 4 4 5450
    8 5 As I Love You - Shirley Bassey 5 3 4 8 6 5195
    7 6 Problems - The Everly Brothers 6= 6 8 6 5 5010
    9 7 Smoke Gets In Your Eyes - The Platters 6= 7 6 5 7 4905
    4 8 The Day The Rains Came - Jane Morgan 8 7 7 9 8 4660
    6 9 It's Only Make Believe - Conway Twitty 9 10 9 7 9 4405
    NEW 10 Does Your Chewing Gum Lose It's Flavour - Lonnie Donegan 10= 9 11 17 12 3850
    17 11 High School Confidential - Jerry Lee Lewis 10= 14 15 10 10 3775
    12 12 Tea For Two Cha-Cha - The Tommy Dorsey Orchestra 12 11 14 18 11 3645
    14 13 Hoots Mon - Lord Rockingham's XI 13= 15 13 13 15 3330
    11 14 Tom Dooley - The Kingston Trio 13= 18 12 12 14 3230
    10 15 Tom Dooley - Lonnie Donegan 16 13 17 15 19 3060
    19 16 (All Of A Sudden) My Heart Sings - Paul Anka 13= 12 10 13 3030
    15 17 Chantilly Lace - The Big Bopper 17 17 14 18 2510
    23 18 I'll Be With You In Apple Blossom Time - Rosemary June 18= 16 19 17 2265
    NEW 19 Wee Tom - Lord Rockingham's XI 21 18 16 1975
    18 20 You Always Hurt The One You Love - Connie Francis 18= 26 11 20 1835
    13 21 Love Makes The World Go 'Round / Mandolins In The Moonlight - Perry Como 20 24 16 16 1500
    26 22 A Pub With No Beer - Slim Dusty 20 19 1305
    21 23 The World Outside - Ronnie Hilton 18 975
    28 24 Livin' Lovin' Doll - Cliff Richard 25 20 890
    30 25 The World Outside - The Four Aces 23 20 875
    20 26 I'll Remember Tonight - Pat Boone 21 750
    16 27 Come On Let's Go - Tommy Steele 28 225
    NEW 27 That's My Doll - Frankie Vaughan 28 225
    22 29 You're The Top Cha - Al Saxon 30 75
    Mandolins In The Moonlight - Perry Como (B) 27
    24 Someday (You'll Want Me To Want You) - Ricky Nelson
    25 There Must Be A Way - Joni James
    27 High Class Baby - Cliff Richard
    29 Cannonball - Duane Eddy
    30 Last Night On The Back Porch - Alma Cogan
    * Either the BBC or the manuscipt is wrong again as it lists a #2 and #3 but the points clearly indicate a tie.


    ​​​​​​​

    Leave a comment:


  • MrTibbs
    replied
    Originally posted by braindeadpj View Post
    Also Pat Boone's I'll Remember The Night is a re-entry on the 31st January chart from the 17th January (when it was at 28).
    Yip, now corrected.

    Leave a comment:


  • MrTibbs
    replied
    Originally posted by Splodj View Post

    Like Sinatra before, difficult to see how this could be an honest mistake.
    Yeah Splodj and David, some mistakes, no, correction lots of mistakes, are miscalculations but some other chart positions given by the BBC are just inexplicable.

    Leave a comment:


  • Splodj
    replied
    Originally posted by braindeadpj View Post
    BTW, The BBC chart no. 19 on the 31st should be Slim Dusty.
    Like Sinatra before, difficult to see how this could be an honest mistake.

    Leave a comment:


  • braindeadpj
    replied
    Also Pat Boone's I'll Remember The Night is a re-entry on the 31st January chart from the 17th January (when it was at 28).

    Leave a comment:


  • braindeadpj
    replied
    BTW, The BBC chart no. 19 on the 31st should be Slim Dusty.
    Also both Tom Dooley tracks should be equal 10 on points so they miscalculated here.
    Last edited by braindeadpj; Mon May 16, 2022, 02:34.

    Leave a comment:


  • braindeadpj
    replied
    So if Disc had been more on the ball and placed Elvis 5 or higher (rather than 9), he'd have been no.1 overall the week of the 24th. The average of the other charts suggest it should have been in at 2.... Wonder why they were so far off.

    Leave a comment:


  • MrTibbs
    replied
    I think you're right here because both of last weeks #1's on the other three charts tumble from the top right out of the top three so it is highly probable that RM called it correct. For my money I Got Stung was by far the stronger side, a cracking good fast paced rocker.

    Leave a comment:


  • Splodj
    replied
    The unanimity at the top adds credence to the view that last week RM got it right. MM and Disc may have been suffering from the difficulty that points charts tend to be too slow in identifying a 'bullet' top seller, as demonstrated later by BMRB and Gallup, and NME was having another of its highly maverick moments with their no. 1 which had fallen in position elsewhere.

    In trying to determine from the entrails what really was happening these transitional weeks are the most difficult to call.

    Leave a comment:


  • MrTibbs
    replied
    Greetings Pop Pickers

    ​​​​Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending January 31st 1959

    Here are all '' the uppers, the downers, the just hanging 'arounders '

    The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending January 31st 1959 NME MM DISC RM Total
    Last This The Sound Survey 75 25 40 60 Points
    Week Week The Top 30 Singles Chart BBC TOP 30 Scored
    5 1 I Got Stung / One Night - Elvis Presley 1 1 1 1 1 6000
    4 2 Baby Face - Little Richard 2 3 2 2 2 5725
    2 3 To Know Him Is To Love Him - The Teddy Bears 3 2 3 3 3 5675
    1 4 The Day The Rains Came - Jane Morgan 4 4 5 5 4 5335
    6 5 Kiss Me Honey Honey Kiss Me - Shirley Bassey 5= 4 7 6 5 5185
    3 6 It's Only Make Believe - Conway Twitty 5= 7 4 4 7 4995
    18 7 Problems - The Everly Brothers 7= 8 9 7 6 4735
    12 8 As I Love You - Shirley Bassey 7= 6 6 8 10 4680
    13 9 Smoke Gets In Your Eyes - The Platters 9 9 8 12 8 4365
    10 10 Tom Dooley - Lonnie Donegan 11 10 10 10 12 4080
    8 11 Tom Dooley - The Kingston Trio 10 13 11 9 9 4050
    9 12 Tea For Two Cha-Cha - The Tommy Dorsey Orchestra 12= 11 17 14 11 3730
    11 13 Love Makes The World Go Round (A) - Perry Como * 14= 19 13 11 15 3560
    7 14 Hoots Mon - Lord Rockingham's XI 12= 14 12 13 14 3490
    14 15 Chantilly Lace - The Big Bopper 14= 12 15 15 16 3365
    16 16 Come On Let's Go - Tommy Steele 16 16 14 17 18 2890
    19 17 High School Confidential - Jerry Lee Lewis 17 18 20 18 13 2850
    17 18 You Always Hurt The One You Love - Connie Francis 18 17 16 17 2490
    NEW 19 (All Of A Sudden) My Heart Sings - Paul Anka 20 20 19 1545
    RE 20 I'll Remember Tonight - Pat Boone 20 20 1100
    23 21 The World Outside - Ronnie Hilton 20 825
    21 22 You're The Top Cha - Al Saxon 22 675
    29 23 I'll Be With You In Apple Blossom Time - Rosemary June 26 19 675
    22 24 Someday (You'll Want Me To Want You) - Ricky Nelson 23 600
    NEW 25 There Must Be A Way - Joni James 19 24 525
    27 26 A Pub With No Beer - Slim Dusty 29 16 525
    15 27 High Class Baby - Cliff Richard 19 480
    NEW 28 Livin' Lovin' Doll - Cliff Richard 25 450
    20 29 Cannonball - Duane Eddy 18 325
    NEW 30 Last Night On The Back Porch - Alma Cogan 27 300
    30 30 The World Outside - The Four Aces 27 300
    Mandolins In The Moonlight - Perry Como (B) 15
    That's My Doll - Frankie Vaughan 30 75
    24 Woman From Liberia - Jimmie Rodgers
    25 The World Outside - Russ Conway
    26 My Ulelele - Max Bygraves
    28 It's All In The Game - Tommy Edwards
    * This week the split side disadvantaged the averaged chart position so an average was taken from the other 3 charts and awarded to NME to give a more representative chart position.

    Leave a comment:


  • Splodj
    replied
    A contested 'straight in at number one' that I missed off my list. My hunch is that RM got this one right.

    Leave a comment:


  • Robbie
    replied
    I'm not keen on the number 1. It's an old fashioned sounding song even for the era in which it was released.

    Leave a comment:


  • MrTibbs
    replied
    Greetings Pop Pickers

    ​​​​Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending January 24th 1959

    Here are all '' the uppers, the downers, the just hanging 'arounders '

    The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending January 24th 1959 NME MM DISC RM Total
    Last This The Sound Survey 75 25 40 60 Points
    Week Week The Top 30 Singles Chart BBC TOP 30 Scored
    2 1 The Day The Rains Came - Jane Morgan 2= 1 3 3 5 5630
    4 2 To Know Him Is To Love Him - The Teddy Bears 2= 4 4 2 2 5600
    1 3 It's Only Make Believe - Conway Twitty 1 5 1 1 3 5580
    7 4 Baby Face - Little Richard 4= 2 5 4 4 5525
    NEW 5 I Got Stung / One Night - Elvis Presley 4= 3 2 9 1 5505
    11 6 Kiss Me Honey Honey Kiss Me - Shirley Bassey 6= 6 7 8 7 4835
    3 7 Hoots Mon - Lord Rockingham's XI 6= 8 6 6 8 4730
    9 8 Tom Dooley - The Kingston Trio 8 10 11 7 6 4535
    8 9 Tea For Two Cha-Cha - The Tommy Dorsey Orchestra 9 7 9 11 9 4470
    5 10 Tom Dooley - Lonnie Donegan 10= 11 12 10 11 4015
    6 11 Love Makes The World Go 'Round - Perry Como (A) 10= 12 15 5 12 4005
    15 12 As I Love You - Shirley Bassey 10= 9 8 14 13 3985
    17 13 Smoke Gets In Your Eyes - The Platters 13 14 13 15 10 3625
    14 14 Chantilly Lace - The Big Bopper 15 16 14 16 14 3170
    10 15 High Class Baby - Cliff Richard 14 18 10 12 16 3160
    12 16 Come On Let's Go - Tommy Steele 16 13 13 15 3030
    13 17 You Always Hurt The One You Love - Connie Francis 17 15 16 19 18 2835
    NEW 18 Problems - The Everly Brothers 18 18 17 19 2045
    NEW 19 High School Confidential - Jerry Lee Lewis 19 22 19 17 1815
    18 20 Cannonball - Duane Eddy 22 20 20 1775
    25 21 You're The Top Cha - Al Saxon 20 17 20 1325
    19 22 Someday (You'll Want Me To Want You) - Ricky Nelson 26 17 935
    29 23 The World Outside - Ronnie Hilton 21 750
    21 24 Woman From Liberia - Jimmie Rodgers 30 18 595
    NEW 25 The World Outside - Russ Conway 24 525
    16 26 My Ukelele - Max Bygraves 25 450
    NEW 27 A Pub With No Beer - Slim Dusty 18 325
    20 28 It's All In The Game - Tommy Edwards 27 300
    NEW 29 I'll Be With You In Apple Blossom Time - Rosemary June 28 225
    NEW 30 The World Outside - The Four Aces 29 150
    Mandolins In The Moonlight - Perry Como (B) 18
    Last Night On The Back Porch - Alma Cogan 30 75
    22 Queen Of The Hop - Bobby Darin
    23 More Than Ever - Malcolm Vaughan
    24 Real Love - Ruby Murray
    26 Am I Wasting My Time On You - Frankie Vaughan
    27 A Certain Smile - Johnny Mathis
    28 I'll Remember Tonight - Pat Boone
    30 Heartbeat - Buddy Holly

    Leave a comment:


  • Splodj
    replied
    I thought the flip was at least as good - 'Well Alright'. Difficult to say any of his were overrated when they performed so badly - even worse in the USA.

    Cousin Brucie had Sonny Curtis on his show recently and asked him if he remembered what he was doing when he heard of Holly's death. He replied he was staying with Jerry Allison and felt he had to go into his bedroom and wake up 'JA' and Peggy Sue to tell them the news.

    (Incidentally he said he had never really fought the law, it was just imagined!)

    Leave a comment:


  • kingofskiffle
    replied
    Originally posted by brian05 View Post
    RE 30 Heartbeat - Buddy Holly

    This should have been a much greater hit. Sadly Buddy was mainly ignored in the UK until after his death.
    Yes a wonderful song. In fact all of his that chart in my opinion where wonderful. Any of his that people would suggest are overrated or not that good? (Genuine question as interested in the opinions).

    Leave a comment:


  • MrTibbs
    replied
    Originally posted by brian05 View Post
    RE 30 Heartbeat - Buddy Holly

    This should have been a much greater hit. Sadly Buddy was mainly ignored in the UK until after his death.
    Brian I totally agree it was an injustice when Nick Berry could score a major hit with this in a version that was practically a carbon copy and Buddy's was relegated to the low twenties. Similarly True Love Ways should have been massive in 1960 but was all but ignored.
    My father was a massive fan and had all these early hits. In the late fifties he had nearly all Lonnie Donegan's stuff whom he also admired and Buddy's.

    In the year above Buddy is about to go massive with It Doesn't Matter Anymore. The Flip Raining In My Heart was also a class tune and should have been held back as it had the potential to be a big follow up hit in its own right.

    Leave a comment:


  • brian05
    replied
    RE 30 Heartbeat - Buddy Holly

    This should have been a much greater hit. Sadly Buddy was mainly ignored in the UK until after his death.

    Leave a comment:

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