Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

The Ultimate Averaged Chart - The BBC Chart Re-Imagined

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • MrTibbs
    replied
    Greetings Pop Pickers !

    Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending 30th July 1966.

    The Beach Boys God Only Knows was criminally denied the No 1 slot in the weeks to come grrrrr.


    The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending July 30th 1966 NME MM DISC RR Total
    Last This The Sound Survey Stores 200 250 100 85 Points
    Week Week The Top 30 Singles Chart BBC TOP 30 Scored
    2 1 Out Of Time - Chris Farlowe 1 1 1 1 1 19050
    6 2 Black Is Black - Los Bravos 2 3 2 3 2 18115
    11 3 With A Girl Like You - The Troggs 3 2 4 2 3 17830
    1 4 Get Away - Georgie Fame and The Blue Flames 4 4 3 4 4 17395
    8 5 The More I See You - Chris Montez 6 5 5 7 7 16140
    3 6 Sunny Afternoon - The Kinks 5 6 6 5 5 16060
    7 7 I Couldn't Live Without Your Love - Petula Clark 7 7 8 6 6 15175
    9 8 Love Letters - Elvis Presley 8 8 7 9 8 14755
    4 9 Nobody Needs Your Love - Gene Pitney 9 9 10 8 11 13650
    12 10 Goin' Back - Dusty Springfield 11 11 9 11 10 13285
    5 11 River Deep Mountain High - Ike and Tina Turner 10 10 11 10 9 13170
    10 12 Bus Stop - The Hollies 12 12 12 12 12 12065
    18 13 Mama - Dave Berry 13 13 14 14 14 10995
    13 14 Strangers In The Night - Frank Sinatra 15 16 13 13 15 10660
    16 15 (Baby) You Don't Have To Tell Me - The Walker Brothers 14 14 15 15 13 10530
    28 16 Visions - Cliff Richard 17 17 16 17 18 9055
    25 17 Summer In The City - The Lovin' Spoonful 16 15 18 18 16 9025
    14 18 Hideaway - Dave Dee, Dozy, Beaky, Mick and Tich 18 20 17 16 17 8390
    30 19 Hi-Li Hi-Lo - The Alan Price Set 19 18 20 20 21 7300
    15 20 Paperback Writer - The Beatles 20 23 19 21 19 6620
    17 21 Lana - Roy Orbison 21 23 21 19 20 6235
    NEW 22 I Want You - Bob Dylan 22 21 26 22 22 4915
    NEW 23 God Only Knows - The Beach Boys 25 19 25 30 4000
    19 24 When A Man Loves A Woman - Percy Sledge 23 27 23 24 26 3925
    21 25 Sittin' On A Fence - Twice As Much 27 22 25 2760
    24 26 A Place In The Sun - The Shadows 26 24 28 24 2645
    20 27 Don't Answer Me - Cilla Black 24 27 23 23 2480
    NEW 28 Lovers Of The World Unite - David and Jonathan 28 26 29 27 27 2240
    29 29 Can I Trust You - The Bachelors 30 25 28 30 2035
    NEW 30 I Love How You Love Me - Paul and Barry Ryan 29 22 29 1970
    This Door Swings Both Ways - Herman's Hermits 29 30 29 850
    I Am A Rock - Simon and Garfunkel 26 28 755
    Promises - Ken Dodd 28 600
    Monday Monday - The Mamas and Papas 25 600
    It's A Man's Man's Man's World - James Brown 30 200


    Leave a comment:


  • MrTibbs
    replied
    Greetings Pop Pickers !

    Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending 23rd July 1966.

    The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending July 23rd 1966 NME MM DISC RR Total
    Last This The Sound Survey Stores 200 250 100 85 Points
    Week Week The Top 30 Singles Chart BBC TOP 30 Scored
    2 1 Get Away - Georgie Fame and The Blue Flames 1 3 1 2 1 18550
    7 2 Out Of Time - Chris Farlowe 2 1 3 1 3 18380
    1 3 Sunny Afternoon - The Kinks 3 2 2 3 2 18315
    3 4 Nobody Needs Your Love - Gene Pitney 4 6 4 4 5 16660
    4 5 River Deep Mountain High - Ike and Tina Turner 5 5 5 6 4 16495
    11 6 Black Is Black - Los Bravos 6 4 7 5 6 16125
    6 7 I Couldn't Live Without Your Love - Petula Clark 7 7 6 8 7 15390
    12 8 The More I See You - Chris Montez 10= 9 8 11 13 13680
    13 9 Love Letters - Elvis Presley 9 11 9 9 9 13570
    5 10 Bus Stop - The Hollies 8 10 11 7 8 13555
    24 11 With A Girl Like You - The Troggs 10= 8 13 10 10 12985
    14 12 Goin' Back - Dusty Springfield 12 12 10 13 12 12465
    9 13 Strangers In The Night - Frank Sinatra 13 13 12 12 11 11950
    10 14 Hideaway - Dave Dee, Dozy, Beaky, Mick and Tich 15 15 14 16 15 10310
    8 15 Paperback Writer - The Beatles 14 16 15 15 14 10045
    26 16 (Baby) You Don't Have To Tell Me - The Walker Brothers 16 14 17 14 21 9450
    17 17 Lana - Roy Orbison 17 18 19 18 16 8175
    21 18 Mama - Dave Berry 18 17 21 17 18 7805
    15 19 When A Man Loves A Woman - Percy Sledge 19 22 18 20 19 7170
    16 20 Don't Answer Me - Cilla Black 20 20 24 19 17 6340
    22 21 Sittin' On A Fence - Twice As Much 26 23 16 27 5690
    20 22 This Door Swings Both Ways - Herman's Hermits 21 27 20 23 23 5030
    19 23 It's A Man's Man's Man's World - James Brown 24 28 22 24 22 4315
    30 24 A Place In The Sun - The Shadows 23 25 25 21 24 4295
    NEW 25 Summer In The City - The Lovin' Spoonful 25 19 27 25 28 4255
    18 26 Monday Monday - The Mamas and Papas 22 29 23 22 20 4235
    25 27 I Am A Rock - Simon and Garfunkel 27 24 26 27 25 3560
    NEW 28 Visions - Cliff Richard 28 21 29 29 29 2870
    NEW 29 Can I Trust You - The Bachelors 29 28 26 26 1675
    NEW 30 Hi-Lili Hi-Lo - The Alan Price Set 30 26 30 28 1550
    Promises - Ken Dodd 30 30 285
    Oops - Neil Christian 30 200
    Sloop John B - The Beach Boys 30 100

    Leave a comment:


  • MrTibbs
    replied
    But, yet again the averaging process corrects the anomaly. That is the beauty of such a system at work.
    Last edited by MrTibbs; Thu September 10, 2020, 21:25.

    Leave a comment:


  • MrTibbs
    replied
    Yeah it's another strange week when the usually spot on MM is way out of step with the others on the No1, and it's not just slightly wide of the mark, the other 3 charts have Georgie at 3, 5, and 4.
    Last edited by MrTibbs; Thu September 10, 2020, 21:19.

    Leave a comment:


  • Graham76man
    commented on 's reply
    As you are doing 67 you do know that Disc ends it's top 30 that year and switches to MM.

  • BobPatience
    replied
    That 4-way tie is amazing. And someone at MM must have had a really big obsession with Georgie Fame.

    Leave a comment:


  • MrTibbs
    replied
    Greetings Pop Pickers !

    Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending 16th July 1966.

    The BBC had 4 ties at No 6 this week. Incredible !

    The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending July 16th 1966 NME MM DISC RR Total
    Last This The Sound Survey Stores 200 250 100 85 Points
    Week Week The Top 30 Singles Chart BBC TOP 30 Scored
    1 1 Sunny Afternoon - The Kinks 1 1 2 1 1 18800
    7 2 Get Away - Georgie Fame and The Blue Flames 3 3 1 5 4 17995
    3 3 Nobody Needs Your Love - Gene Pitney 2 2 4 2 2 17915
    5 4 River Deep Mountain High - Ike and Tina Turner 4 4 3 4 3 17480
    4 5 Bus Stop - The Hollies 5 5 5 3 5 16710
    12 6 I Couldn't Live Without Your Love - Petula Clark 6= 7 6 9 8 15205
    16 7 Out Of Time - Chris Farlowe 6= 6 7 8 9 15170
    2 8 Paperback Writer - The Beatles 6= 9 8 6 7 14690
    6 9 Strangers In The Night - Frank Sinatra 6= 8 9 7 6 14625
    8 10 Hideaway - Dave Dee, Dozy, Beaky, Mick and Tich 10 11 11 10 10 12885
    19 11 Black Is Black - Los Bravos 11 10 12 11 11 12650
    20 12 The More I See You - Chris Montez 14 13 10 16 18 11455
    NEW 13 Love Letters - Elvis Presley 12 12 13 14 14 11445
    23 14 Goin' Back - Dusty Springfield 15= 14 14 15 17 10440
    10 15 When A Man Loves A Woman - Percy Sledge 13 15 16 12 13 10380
    9 16 Don't Answer Me - Cilla Black 15= 16 15 17 12 10015
    13 17 Lana - Roy Orbison 18 17 17 18 16 8875
    11 18 Monday Monday - The Mamas and Papas 17 18 21 13 15 8260
    14 19 It's A Man's Man's Man's World - James Brown 19 20 18 19 19 7670
    18 20 This Door Swings Both Ways - Herman's Hermits 20 25 20 20 20 5985
    30 21 Mama - Dave Berry 21= 22 22 22 25 5460
    24 22 Sittin' On A Fence - Twice As Much 23 23 19 27 28 5255
    17 23 Promises - Ken Dodd 21= 24 24 21 22 4915
    NEW 24 With A Girl Like You - The Troggs 24 19 28 23 29 4120
    21 25 I Am A Rock - Simon and Garfunkel 26 26 23 23 3680
    NEW 26 (Baby) You Don't Have To Tell Me - The Walker Brothers 25 21 29 24 27 3540
    27 27 Sloop John B - The Beach Boys 27 26 28 21 2150
    25 28 I Need You (EP) - The Walker Brothers 29 30 25 30 2030
    29 29 Opus 17 - The Four Seasons 30 26 26 1750
    NEW 30 A Place In The Sun - The Shadows 28 27 1600
    Over Under Sideways Down - The Yardbirds 28 25 24 1195
    Can I Trust You - The Bachelors 29 30 650
    Don't Bring Me Down - The Animals 29 26 625
    Sorrow - The Merseys 30 85

    Leave a comment:


  • MrTibbs
    replied
    Ha , yeah I forgot about that Graham, was very tongue in cheek from the Kinks. Splodj, funnily enough Graham mentioned earlier in the thread and now you have picked up on it too, as have I, that MM does start to go out on a limb a bit at times, and its not for the last time. I'm now working on January 1967 and have raised my eyebrows a few times at MM positions on occasion. Thankfully we have averaging to correct it

    Leave a comment:


  • Splodj
    replied
    The normally 'midway' Melody Maker went maverick with Sunny Afternoon, which was number one in all the other charts for 2 weeks. Then in a few months it alone had I'm A Boy at number one for 2 weeks.

    Leave a comment:


  • Graham76man
    replied
    The film the Kinks did for Sunny Afternoon shows them freezing in the middle of a winter day!

    Leave a comment:


  • MrTibbs
    replied
    Greetings Pop Pickers !

    Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending 9th July 1966.

    Enjoy !

    The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending July 9th 1966 NME MM DISC RR Total
    Last This The Sound Survey Stores 200 250 100 85 Points
    Week Week The Top 30 Singles Chart BBC TOP 30 Scored
    3 1 Sunny Afternoon - The Kinks 1 1 2 1 1 18800
    1 2 Paperback Writer - The Beatles 2 4 1 2 2 18265
    4 3 Nobody Needs Your Love - Gene Pitney 3 2 3 3 4 17895
    7 4 Bus Stop - The Hollies 4 3 4 4 6 17175
    6 5 River Deep Mountain High - Ike and Tina Turner 5 5 5 6 3 16580
    2 6 Strangers In The Night - Frank Sinatra 6 6 6 5 5 16060
    12 7 Get Away - Georgie Fame and The Blue Flames 7 7 7 7 7 15240
    10 8 Hideaway - Dave Dee, Dozy, Beaky, Mick and Tich 8 8 8 8 10 14435
    5 9 Don't Answer Me - Cilla Black 9 11 9 10 8 13555
    9 10 When A Man Loves A Woman - Percy Sledge 10 10 11 11 9 13070
    8 11 Monday Monday - The Mamas and Papas 11 12 12 9 11 12450
    23 12 I Couldn't Live Without Your Love - Petula Clark 12 9 10 12 21 12400
    16 13 Lana - Roy Orbison 13 14 13 14 15 10960
    19 14 It's A Man's Man's Man's World - James Brown 15 18 14 15 13 9980
    11 15 Over Under Sideways Down - The Yardbirds 14 16 17 13 12 9915
    29 16 Out Of Time - Chris Farlowe 16 13 15 18 20 9835
    14 17 Promises - Ken Dodd 17 20 18 17 16 8125
    25 18 This Door Swings Both Ways - Herman's Hermits 18 21 16 21 18 7855
    30 19 Black Is Black - Los Bravos 19 17 19 19 25 7510
    NEW 20 The More I See You - Chris Montez 20 15 27 16 26 6125
    22 21 I Am A Rock - Simon and Garfunkel 22 24 20 24 17 6040
    13 22 Don't Bring Me Down - The Animals 21 23 22 25 14 5895
    NEW 23 Goin' Back - Dusty Springfield 27= 19 26 30 3735
    NEW 24 Sittin' On A Fence - Twice As Much 27= 27 21 27 3640
    24 25 I Need You (EP) - The Walker Brothers 25= 26 25 26 3459
    15 26 Sorrow - The Merseys 23 25 30 22 22 3115
    18 27 Sloop John B - The Beach Boys 24 29 29 23 19 2720
    28 28 Lady Jane - David Garrick 30 23 28 2300
    20 29 Opus 17 - The Four Seasons 25= 28 20 24 2295
    NEW 30 Mama - Dave Berry 29 24 30 2250
    Paint It Black - The Rolling Stones 29 28 27 23 1830
    Love Letters - Elvis Presley 22 1800
    Wild Thing - The Troggs 29 28 455
    Nothing Comes Easy - Sandie Shaw 29 170

    Leave a comment:


  • MrTibbs
    replied
    Greetings Pop Pickers !

    Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending 2nd July 1966.

    The Chiffons' Sweet Talkin' Guy will be back in 1972 to claim a Top 5 place on the back of Northern Soul.

    The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending July 2nd 1966 NME MM DISC RR Total
    Last This The Sound Survey Stores 200 250 100 85 Points
    Week Week The Top 30 Singles Chart BBC TOP 30 Scored
    1 1 Paperback Writer - The Beatles 1 1 1 1 1 19050
    2 2 Strangers In The Night - Frank Sinatra 2 2 3 2 2 18165
    4 3 Sunny Afternoon - The Kinks 3 3 2 3 3 18030
    9 4 Nobody Needs Your Love - Gene Pitney 4 4 5 4 5 16810
    5 5 Don't Answer Me - Cilla Black 5= 7 4 5 6 16275
    7 6 River Deep Mountain High - Ike and Tina Turner 5= 5 7 6 4 15995
    19 7 Bus Stop - The Hollies 7 6 6 7 9 15520
    3 8 Monday Monday - The Mamas and Papas 8 10 9 9 8 13855
    6 9 When A Man Loves A Woman - Percy Sledge 9 8 11 10 7 13740
    14 10 Hideaway - Dave Dee, Dozy, Beaky, Mick and Tich 10 11 10 8 10 13335
    10 11 Over Under Sideways Down - The Yardbirds 12 13 8 12 13 12780
    26 12 Get Away - Georgie Fame and The Blue Flames 11 9 12 11 12 12765
    8 13 Don't Bring Me Down - The Animals 13 14 13 13 11 11400
    13 14 Promises - Ken Dodd 14 12 16 14 14 10695
    11 15 Sorrow - The Merseys 15 15 14 15 15 10410
    21 16 Lana - Roy Orbison 17 16 18 17 20 8585
    12 17 Paint It Black - The Rolling Stones 16 18 17 19 16 8575
    16 18 Sloop John B - The Beach Boys 18 20 15 18 19 8520
    20 19 It's A Man's Man's Man's World - James Brown 19 17 19 20 21 7750
    18 20 Opus 17 - The Four Seasons 20 21 22 16 22 6515
    15 21 Wild Thing - The Troggs 21 24 20 22 18 6155
    30 22 I Am A Rock - Simon and Garfunkel 22 26 21 25 17 5290
    NEW 23 I Couldn't Live Without Your Love - Petula Clark 24 19 23 26 4900
    NEW 24 I Need You (EP) - The Walker Brothers 23 22 28 21 4179
    NEW 25 This Door Swings Both Ways - Herman's Hermits 25 25 27 27 23 3280
    17 26 Nothing Comes Easy - Sandie Shaw 26 25 24 24 2795
    22 27 Once There Was A Time / Not Responsible - Tom Jones 27 26 23 27 2390
    29 28 Lady Jane - David Garrick 28 24 29 28 2205
    NEW 29 Out Of Time - Chris Farlowe 29 23 30 30 1950
    NEW 30 Black Is Black - Los Bravos 27 800
    Sittin' On A Fence - Twice As Much 29 29 670
    Mama - Dave Berry 28 600
    The More I See You - Chris Montez 28 600
    No One Will Ever Know - Frank Ifield 30 25 510
    Come On Home - Wayne Fontana 26 425
    Sweet Talkin' Guy - The Chiffons 28 300
    Shotgun Wedding - Roy C 30 200
    Hey Girl - The Small Faces 30 85



    Leave a comment:


  • MrTibbs
    replied
    Greetings Pop Pickers !

    Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending 25th June 1966.

    Incidentally the excellent Sittin' On A Fence by Twice As Much should at least have gone Top Ten. I'm gutted.

    The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending June 25th 1966 NME MM DISC RR Total
    Last This The Sound Survey Stores 200 250 100 85 Points
    Week Week The Top 30 Singles Chart BBC TOP 30 Scored
    2 1 Paperback Writer - The Beatles 1 1 1 1 1 19050
    1 2 Stranger In The Night - Frank Sinatra 2 2 2 2 2 18415
    3 3 Monday Monday - The Mamas and Papas 3 3 4 3 3 17530
    11 4 Sunny Afternoon - The Kinks 4 4 3 6 5 17110
    8 5 Don't Answer Me - Cilla Black 5= 5 6 4 7 16190
    7 6 When A Man Loves A Woman - Percy Sledge 5= 8 5 5 4 15995
    13 7 River Deep Mountain High - Ike and Tina Turner 8 6 10 9 8 14405
    5 8 Don't Bring Me Down - The Animals 7 12 7 7 6 14325
    16 9 Nobody Needs Your Love - Gene Pitney 9 7 9 8 11 14300
    12 10 Over Under Sideways Down - The Yardbirds 10 13 8 11 10 13135
    6 11 Sorrow - The Merseys 11 10 11 12 9 12970
    4 12 Paint It Black - The Rolling Stones 12 11 12 10 12 12465
    10 13 Promises - Ken Dodd 13 9 13 13 13 12230
    22 14 Hideaway - Dave Dee, Dozy, Beaky, Mick and Tich 14 14 14 16 14 10595
    9 15 Wild Thing - The Troggs 15 15 16 14 15 10010
    14 16 Sloop John B - The Beach Boys 16 16 15 15 16 9875
    15 17 Nothing Comes Easy - Sandie Shaw 17 22 17 17 17 7890
    24 18 Opus 17 - The Four Seasons 18 21 18 19 20 7385
    NEW 19 Bus Stop - The Hollies 19 19 20 20 19 7270
    29 20 It's A Man's Man's Man's World - James Brown 20 17 24 21 24 6145
    NEW 21 Lana - Roy Orbison 21 20 23 18 29 5670
    23 22 Once There Was A Time / Not Responsible - Tom Jones 22 25 25 25 18 4405
    18 23 Hey Girl - The Small Faces 23 21 23 21 4150
    17 24 Rainy Day Women Nos 12 & 35 - Bob Dylan 24 19 24 27 4040
    20 25 Come On Home - Wayne Fontana 25 27 22 22 3815
    NEW 26 Get Away - Georgie Fame and The Blue Flames 28= 18 28 2855
    21 27 Pretty Flamingo - Manfred Mann 26 29 26 26 25 2660
    19 28 Shotgun Wedding - Roy C 27 28 27 22 30 2585
    NEW 29 Lady Jane - David Garrick 30 24 28 27 2550
    NEW 30 I Am A Rock - Simon and Garfunkel 28= 26 29 30 23 2280
    I Need You (EP) - The Walker Brothers 23 29 1800
    Sittin' On A Fence - Twice As Much 30 30 450
    Daydream - The Lovin' Spoonful 26 425
    Sweet Talkin' Guy - The Chiffons 28 300

    Leave a comment:


  • Graham76man
    commented on 's reply
    Yeah Brian that's fine. I just wanted to show how close your chart is to the actual sales, just in case people think a chart based on 600+ shops would be way out compared to one based on the lot. As you can see it's very close with many tied positions.
    Keep up the good work.

  • MrTibbs
    replied
    Greetings Pop Pickers !

    Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending 18th June 1966. Enjoy.

    The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending June 18th 1966 NME MM DISC RR Total
    Last This The Sound Survey Stores 200 250 100 85 Points
    Week Week The Top 30 Singles Chart BBC TOP 30 Scored
    1 1 Strangers In The Night - Frank Sinatra 1 1 2 1 1 18800
    NEW 2 Paperback Writer - The Beatles 2 2 1 2 2 18665
    3 3 Monday Monday - The Mamas and Papas 3 3 3 3 3 17780
    2 4 Paint It Black - The Rolling Stones 4 4 5 4 6 16725
    8 5 Don't Bring Me Down - The Animals 6= 6 4 7 7 16190
    5 6 Sorrow - The Merseys 5 5 7 5 4 16095
    6 7 When A Man Loves A Woman - Percy Sledge 6= 7 6 6 5 15760
    17 8 Don't Answer Me - Cilla Black 9 9 9 10 11 13700
    4 9 Wild Thing - The Troggs 8 8 12 8 9 13520
    7 10 Promises - Ken Dodd 10 11 11 9 8 13155
    24 11 Sunny Afternoon - The Kinks 12 10 8 14 14 13095
    15 12 Over Under Sideways Down - The Yardbirds 11 14 10 12 10 12335
    21 13 River Deep Mountain High - Ike and Tina Turner 14 12 13 15 12 11515
    10 14 Sloop John B - The Beach Boys 13 13 14 11 13 11380
    14 15 Nothing Comes Easy - Sandie Shaw 15 17 15 13 16 9875
    25 16 Nobody Needs Your Love - Gene Pitney 18 15 16 20 18 9155
    9 17 Rainy Day Women Nos 12 & 35 - Bob Dylan 16 16 18 17 15 9010
    11 18 Hey Girl - Small Faces 17 17 17 16 17 8990
    13 19 Shotgun Wedding - Roy C 19 19 20 18 23 7130
    16 20 Come On Home - Wayne Fontana 20 21 19 21 20 6935
    12 21 Pretty Flamingo - Manfred Mann 21 20 21 19 22 6665
    NEW 22 Hideaway - Dave Dee, Dozy, Beaky, Mick and Tich 22 22 22 22 21 5800
    19 23 Once There Was A Time / Not Responsible - Tom Jones 23 23 23 23 19 5420
    NEW 24 Opus 17 - The Four Seasons 24 25 24 26 25 3960
    18 25 I Love Her - Paul and Barry Ryan 25 25 24 24 2795
    26 26 Stop Her On Sight - Edwin Starr 26 24 28 27 2550
    NEW 27 Sweet Talkin' Guy - The Chiffons 27 27 26 29 2250
    20 28 Daydream - The Lovin' Spoonful 30= 27 30 1100
    NEW 29 It's A Man's Man's Man's World - James Brown 29 26 30 1085
    29 30 Twinkie Lee - Gary Walker 28 28 26 1025
    You Don't Have To Say You Love Me - Dusty Springfield 25 29 770
    Lady Jane - David Garrick 30= 30 29 700
    Lana - Roy Orbison 29 400
    Eight Miles High - The Byrds 30= 27 340
    The Pied Piper - Crispian St Peters 28 300
    I Am A Rock - Simon and Garfunkel 28 255
    Sittin' On A Fence - Twice As Much 30 250

    Leave a comment:


  • MrTibbs
    replied
    Graham may I respectfully ask that if you wish to post your Real Charts and make comparisons with mine that you open a thread to share that information as my thread here is to solely post, share, and discuss my project of The Ultimate Averaged Charts. It gets confusing and focus is lost if we keep branching off into comparisons with your Real Charts and dilutes what I am trying to achieve here.

    That said I still want to welcome you, your valuable input, and background knowledge in discussion around my charts here on this site. You have made many interesting thought provoking points along the way and I really do want those to continue but I just want to keep this thread entirely relevant to the topic in hand.
    Thanks Graham.

    Leave a comment:


  • Graham76man
    replied
    I thought you like to see how small the differences are between the Real Chart (in Red) and Brian's. The same week as the 11 June 1966 (my 6 birthday) With blue sales figures

    1 Strangers In The Night - Frank Sinatra 1 144K
    2 Paint It Black - The Rolling Stones 3 109K
    3 Monday Monday - The Mamas and Papas 2 110K
    4 Wild Thing - The Troggs 5
    5 Sorrow - The Merseys 4
    6 When A Man Loves A Woman - Percy Sledge 7
    7 Promises - Ken Dodd 6
    8 Don't Bring Me Down - The Animals 9
    9 Rainy Day Women Nos 12 & 35 - Bob Dylan 8
    10 Sloop John B - The Beach Boys 15
    11 Hey Girl - The Small Faces 11
    12 Pretty Flamingo - Manfred Mann 16
    13 Shotgun Wedding - Roy C 13
    14 Nothing Comes Easy - Sandie Shaw 10
    15 Over Under Sideways Down - The Yardbirds 17
    16 Come On Home - Wayne Fontana 14
    17 Don't Answer Me - Cilla Black 19
    18 I Love Her - Paul and Barry Ryan 12
    19 Once There Was A Time / Not Responsible - Tom Jones 22
    20 Daydream - The Lovin' Spoonful 18
    21 River Deep Mountain High - Ike and Tina Turner 21
    22 You Don't Have To Say You Love Me - Dusty Springfield 23
    23 The Pied Piper - Crispian St Peters 20
    24 Sunny Afternoon - The Kinks 24
    25 Nobody Needs Your Love - Gene Pitney 42 - hype indication
    26 Stop Her On Sight - Edwin Starr 28
    27 (You're My) Soul And Inspiration - The Righteous Brothers 38
    28 Hold Tight - Dave Dee, Dozy, Beaky, Mick and Tich 49 - Probably poor distribution as it's not new
    29 Twinkie Lee - Gary Walker 27
    30 Eight Miles High - The Byrds 29

    California Dreamin' - The Mamas and Papas 25
    Bang Bang - Cher 41
    Opus 17 - The 4 Seasons 31 - correct spelling of the group - at that time!
    Sweet Talkin' Guy - The Chiffons 32
    Can't Live Without You - The Mindbenders 36
    I Feel A Cry Comin' On - Hank Locklin 53
    I'm Comin' Home Cindy - Trini Lopez 68 - never got higher than 40

    Real Chart Only
    Lady Jane - David Garrick 30 new to the 30
    Machines EP - Manfred Mann 26 - Got as high as 20.

    Leave a comment:


  • Graham76man
    replied
    Originally posted by Splodj View Post
    Published charts create their own dynamic, influencing what happens the following week. So if you could go back in time and have charts published based on actual sales instead and these were different, it would not just be entering a parallel universe - but branching parallel universes every week.
    I not too clear on which of the published 60's charts effected the following weeks sales. All the paper based charts were sent out to the shops so they knew what these charts looked like. However I would have thought it would be confusing to the public. I have not heard of the BBC's own chart being sent out, so if you could remember the TOTP position or the Pick of The Pops one telling the shop keeper you wanted number 12 from that would see some blank looks.
    What I do know is the ones falling down on these top 50 are always in the Real Chart 100 somewhere.

    The Real Chart can be done retrospectively because every part of human life is recorded, they same way many of us recorded the songs on the top 40 shows. Just using technology that we just don't have - yet.
    If I was to do a Marty McFly and travel back to 1966 and present each week the Real Chart to the public (all) then only the current week, I went there would be correct. As soon as the public saw the top 100, buying patterns would change. And the next chart would become incorrect, getting worse each week, especially if TOTP used the chart.
    However I am not time travelling.

    What I do know is that as the BMRB chart takes over, that should effect it's own chart. But in reality it doesn't. Especially when the shops start to layout the entire top 50 in the shops. But then not all shops laid out the full chart. Some went for as little as 20 or 10, places, especially when 12 Singles came along. With the public tending to pick up what is the charts as laid out in store. So that if the Official chart places a record outside the shops chart - be it a 30, 20 or 10 layout, that record will fall like a stone the following week. And in the the 30 and 20 and not on TV, climb fast! My findings however reveal that this is not the case. And the top 50 becomes a law onto itself. They only reason that would explain this would be the rules and the way the chart is made up. Again to represent a full NATIONAL chart when not ALL shops are taking part is to sample them. You take 10 shops to represent 50 for example. And weight the sales from 10 to turn them into 50. But the shops are not selling tins of baked beans or bread. It's entirely subjective. One out of the 10 might have been affected by bad weather. But 25 of the 50 might have been too. So overestimated sales and underestimated sales play a part. It's known regional sales and football records (unless it was a National team thing) were ignored by the National chart, regardless of how much they sell.
    The point I am making is that the rules any chart uses, including Brian's chart, affect how that chart looks. And unless Brian can locate the weekly sales books of over 8,000 shops and add them up (I will settle for any week any year) then even Brian's chart is flawed and as bad as though 60's charts it's based on. By the way the more I read about these 60's chart compilations the number of shops listed as taking part is not as precise as the figures Brian's uses. And I have read that Record Retailer arrived too late to make up the BBC's own chart. So adding it's 85 shops seems to be retrospective anyway.
    Don't get me wrong Brian. As I have said these charts you are doing are better than the BBC's charts at the time. But they are a creation of charts done after the events using methods and system of calculations you have invented to do the job. And they will have hyped records. Michael Cable in his 1977 book makes it clear that the papers and record companies openly negotiated with each other for placements in the charts for advertising space. At the end of the day Brian just because several of these charts have the same record at 19 doesn't mean that record sold lots of copies. It simply means that a number of record shops reported it as selling well. NOT 200 of them either perhaps 50, less in some charts.
    As for the sameness, well the BBC finally gave up when the sameness gave a different number one in each chart. Hence the creation of the BMRB chart.

    Leave a comment:


  • MrTibbs
    replied
    Greetings Pop Pickers !

    Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending 11th June 1966. Enjoy.

    The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending June 11th 1966 NME MM DISC RR Total
    Last This The Sound Survey Stores 200 250 100 85 Points
    Week Week The Top 30 Singles Chart BBC TOP 30 Scored
    1 1 Strangers In The Night - Frank Sinatra 1 1 1 1 1 19050
    2 2 Paint It Black - The Rolling Stones 2 2 3 2 2 18165
    4 3 Monday Monday - The Mamas and Papas 3 3 2 3 5 17860
    3 4 Wild Thing - The Troggs 4 4 4 5 3 17130
    5 5 Sorrow - The Merseys 5 5 5 4 4 16695
    10 6 When A Man Loves A Woman - Percy Sledge 6 6 6 7 7 15690
    8 7 Promises - Ken Dodd 7 7 7 8 6 15225
    18 8 Don't Bring Me Down - The Animals 8 8 8 6 8 14805
    9 9 Rainy Day Women Nos 12 & 35 - Bob Dylan 10 10 9 10 10 13585
    7 10 Sloop John B - The Beach Boys 9 9 11 9 9 13470
    11 11 Hey Girl - The Small Faces 11 13 12 11 11 12050
    6 12 Pretty Flamingo - Manfred Mann 12 11 13 12 13 11930
    12 13 Shotgun Wedding - Roy C 13 12 14 13 12 11465
    14 14 Nothing Comes Easy - Sandie Shaw 14 16 10 14 14 11395
    NEW 15 Over Under Sideways Down - The Yardbirds 15 15 16 15 15 9910
    17 16 Come On Home - Wayne Fontana 16 17 15 18 16 9375
    NEW 17 Don't Answer Me - Cilla Black 17 14 19 16 25 8410
    19 18 I Love Her - Paul and Barry Ryan 18 25 17 19 17 7090
    22 19 Once There Was A Time / Not Responsible - Tom Jones 19 21 20 20 18 6955
    13 20 Daydream - The Lovin' Spoonful 20 24 18 21 20 6585
    NEW 21 River Deep Mountain High - Ike and Tina Turner 22 18 21 17 6500
    16 22 You Don't Have To Say You Love Me - Dusty Springfield 21 20 23 23 19 6020
    15 23 The Pied Piper - Crispian St Peters 23 26 22 25 21 4700
    NEW 24 Sunny Afternoon - The Kinks 25 22 24 24 4250
    NEW 25 Nobody Needs Your Love - Gene Pitney 24 19 28 22 4050
    30 26 Stop Her On Sight - Edwin Starr 26 23 26 30 2950
    23 27 (You're My) Soul And Inspiration - The Righteous Brothers 28 25 28 27 2140
    21 28 Hold Tight - Dave Dee, Dozy, Beaky, Mick and Tich 27 27 29 23 1880
    NEW 29 Twinkie Lee - Gary Walker 29 27 27 28 1455
    28 30 Eight Miles High - The Byrds 29 24 1095
    California Dreamin' - The Mamas and Papas 30 26 26 925
    Bang Bang - Cher 22 765
    Opus 17 - The Four Seasons 29 30 650
    Sweet Talkin' Guy - The Chiffons 28 600
    Can't Live Without You - The Mindbenders 30 200
    I Feel A Cry Comin' On - Hank Locklin 29 170
    I'm Comin' Home Cindy - Trini Lopez 30 85

    Leave a comment:


  • Graham76man
    commented on 's reply
    All the data on how the Real Chart is done can be found on my blog site. Just search "Real Chart Graham Appleyard" for it. The 1965 and 1966 charts full PDF's can be found on the 60's chart page of it. The 1967 charts are ongoing.

  • MrTibbs
    replied
    Greetings Pop Pickers !

    Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending 4th June 1966 for your interest.

    The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending June 4th 1966 NME MM DISC RR Total
    Last This The Sound Survey Stores 200 250 100 85 Points
    Week Week The Top 30 Singles Chart BBC TOP 30 Scored
    3 1 Strangers In The Night - Frank Sinatra 1 1 1 1 1 19050
    1 2 Paint It Black - The Rolling Stones 2 2 2 2 2 18415
    2 3 Wild Thing - The Troggs 3 3 3 3 3 17780
    7 4 Monday Monday - The Mamas and Papas 5 4 4 6 5 16860
    5 5 Sorrow - The Merseys 4 5 5 4 4 16695
    4 6 Pretty Flamingo - Manfred Mann 6 6 6 5 12 15465
    6 7 Sloop John B - The Beach Boys 7 7 11 7 6 14325
    12 8 Promises - Ken Dodd 8 9 9 8 8 14155
    10 9 Rainy Day Women Nos 12 & 35 - Bob Dylan 10 11 7 12 7 13940
    14 10 When A Man Loves A Woman - Percy Sledge 9 8 10 9 9 13920
    9 11 Hey Girl - The Small Faces 11 12 8 11 10 13335
    8 12 Shotgun Wedding - Roy C 12 10 12 10 11 12750
    11 13 Daydream - The Lovin' Spoonful 13 13 13 13 15 11260
    25 14 Nothing Comes Easy - Sandie Shaw 14 15 15 17 14 10045
    15 15 The Pied Piper - Crispian St Peters 15 16 16 15 16 9625
    13 16 You Don't Have To Say You Love Me - Dusty Springfield 16 19 14 14 17 9540
    18 17 Come On Home - Wayne Fontana 17 14 17 18 18 9305
    NEW 18 Don't Bring Me Down - The Animals 18 17 19 19 13 8530
    21 19 I Love Her - Paul and Barry Ryan 19 18 18 16 19 8370
    16 20 Bang Bang - Cher 20 20 20 21 22 6715
    19 21 Hold Tight - Dave Dee, Dozy, Beaky, Mick and Tich 21 23 21 20 24 5795
    NEW 22 Once There Was A Time / Not Responsible - Tom Jones 23 21 24 24 20 5385
    20 23 (You're My) Soul And Inspiration - The Righteous Brothers 22 29 22 22 25 4060
    22 24 Alfie - Cilla Black 25 26 23 25 3600
    26 25 Can't Live Without You - The Mindbenders 26 22 27 27 3200
    17 26 Homeward Bound - Simon and Garfunkel 24 25 28 23 26 3175
    23 27 How Does That Grab You Darlin' - Nancy Sinatra 29 25 26 29 2170
    NEW 28 Eight Miles High - The Byrds 30 28 26 30 1935
    27 29 California Dreamin' - The Mamas and Papas 27 27 28 23 1780
    NEW 30 Stop Her On Sight - Edwin Starr 23 1600
    Over Under Sideways Down - The Yardbirds 28 30 29 21 1250
    That's Nice - Neil Christian 29 30 600
    Twinkie Lee - Gary Walker 30 27 540
    I'm Comin' Home Cindy - Trini Lopez 28 255
    I Feel A Cry Comin' On - Hank Locklin 30 250

    Leave a comment:


  • MrTibbs
    replied
    I agree wholeheartedly Splodj. To quote yet again, we have what we have, and what we have is the actual history as it happened, imperfections and all. Nothing can overwrite that.

    Leave a comment:


  • Splodj
    replied
    Published charts create their own dynamic, influencing what happens the following week. So if you could go back in time and have charts published based on actual sales instead and these were different, it would not just be entering a parallel universe - but branching parallel universes every week.

    Leave a comment:


  • MrTibbs
    replied
    Like I said above though Graham, the times were what they were, nothing can change that, but although all the charts broadly disagreed on some of the record positioning they also broadly agreed on the same records within the actual top thirties themselves.

    I don't believe the sixties charts were 'rotten' to the extent you suggest. Lower than 30 yes, open to manipulation, hence why MM reverted to a Top 30 back in 1967 and why even in the era of BMRB the BBC only used the Top 30.
    I stand by the averaging principle I use as the best possible chart retrospectively. It is based on open transparent data available for all to see and be able to further examine and scrutinise.
    It's not perfect, I have never claimed it to be such, no chart from the time was, but it is I believe the best possible.

    You refer to your Real Chart using sales figures you have in comparison to my averaged chart which uses points so it would be of great interest to me, and probably others as well, if you could present the actual written evidence you have in a transparent and credible manner to support your database, calculations and methodology for the Real Chart positions, open to scrutiny, just like how I present my database and methodology here when posting The Ultimate Averaged Chart and welcome the same scrutiny.
    Last edited by MrTibbs; Mon September 7, 2020, 08:24.

    Leave a comment:


  • Graham76man
    replied
    Originally posted by MrTibbs View Post
    Sorry but on this occasion I don't agree Graham. We don't know to what exact degree any individual record was hyped and how it actually affected individual chart positions so there is no way any chart can accurately determine this although we know it did go on.
    Remember too that The Ultimate Averaged Chart is based purely on factual published chart positions supplemented by store returns to even it out further, counterbalancing any individual chart with a record out of sync with the other charts which may or may not be a hyped record. The example discussed above with The Small Faces is one example of the evidence of this counterbalance at work.

    As to Geneveve it, on a points only system would have scored 5 points in the chart above, it was ranked 26 on a chart with 200 store returns. Although Tom Jones also scored 5 points his came from a chart with 85 store returns so Geneveve was the obvious correct placement on total points.

    At the end of the day it is the records ranked with most points that place on the chart not the records that place on most charts.
    Brian, err we do know what was hyped. The Real Chart doesn't include any record that was fiddled into the chart. The 1966 Real Charts were done well before you started to do these charts. I have been comparing what is in these top 30's with what the actual sales positions are from the Real Chart. I haven't been able to do that before. But your charts can show me and everyone else what records would have been in the top 30 and those that are either selling in low quantities from things like poor distribution, or those that have been hyped. Seeing that you are trying to create a top 30 of these charts, then it is bound to include records that were hyped into the component charts that make it up. Records, even ones that you would think were very popular with the public from the day they came out, were hyped into the charts. Sandie Shaw was only just in at 29, but all the charts show it higher than that, indicating some manipulation of the track going on.
    In the compilation of the charts article records could be hyped into the top 30. One man at the time said that some would push records into the top 20. However record companies didn't have a clue of what was actually selling, since all they knew was how many records were sent out. Much like the distribution chart used in the Missing Hits book of the 1940's to 1952. To even hype a record there must be plenty of copies out there for people to really buy. And re-orders wouldn't start coming in for modest hits till the stocks ran low. The only way the record labels knew a record was selling was large re-orders. And most of them were top five sellers. Which the labels wouldn't need to fix!
    Yes they say they used 200 stores, but that was not true. It was a sample of 200 stores. Had they actually used all 200 stores, plus rated the store on size and turnover then they would have got a much better chart, but they didn't. Besides the record companies knew all the stores. You could simply buy the list. But the reps on the ground would quickly know if the store was filling in returns for these papers. For Christ's sake EMI even told which shops for the Retailer to use!
    So any "new" record more than ten places ahead of where the Real Chart has it that week, is either a chart error, but more likely hyped.
    So the Geneveve record at 30 on any chart and 85 on the Real Chart was hyped. It was selling and that happens with nearly all the top 50 tracks. Largely because any record that makes one of these components charts will be there for the public to ask for when they go into a shop to buy it. Only a few rare occasions, such as the 1967 Jeff Beck (Silver) record, which makes the top 30's of several charts without even entering the Real Chart 100 and on RR chart for nearly six weeks too, before it enters the top 100, the public just refused to buy them.

    Brian your chart is good, but it still made up of rotten charts being fiddled by very greedy people. That includes the record stores themselves. A friend of mine, who was often in Sheffield record shops doing odd jobs was told by one shop owner that they would often put down as the top seller a record they had plenty of copies that had shifted hardly any. He asked wouldn't the chart compilers pick up on that? No was the answer, for the other stores would probably be doing the same. The result of this was a chart entry, TOTP and people buying that record that wasn't selling!
    It's not like downloads, the shops had to have say 300 singles to sell. If they didn't sell them they lost money. If people buy 5 downloads the shop hasn't lost any money. If people buy only 5 records out of 300, the shop has lost money.

    Leave a comment:

Working...
X