-
As you are doing 67 you do know that Disc ends it's top 30 that year and switches to MM. -
That 4-way tie is amazing. And someone at MM must have had a really big obsession with Georgie Fame.Leave a comment:
-
Greetings Pop Pickers !
Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending 16th July 1966.
The BBC had 4 ties at No 6 this week. Incredible !
The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending July 16th 1966 NME MM DISC RR Total Last This The Sound Survey Stores 200 250 100 85 Points Week Week The Top 30 Singles Chart BBC TOP 30 Scored 1 1 Sunny Afternoon - The Kinks 1 1 2 1 1 18800 7 2 Get Away - Georgie Fame and The Blue Flames 3 3 1 5 4 17995 3 3 Nobody Needs Your Love - Gene Pitney 2 2 4 2 2 17915 5 4 River Deep Mountain High - Ike and Tina Turner 4 4 3 4 3 17480 4 5 Bus Stop - The Hollies 5 5 5 3 5 16710 12 6 I Couldn't Live Without Your Love - Petula Clark 6= 7 6 9 8 15205 16 7 Out Of Time - Chris Farlowe 6= 6 7 8 9 15170 2 8 Paperback Writer - The Beatles 6= 9 8 6 7 14690 6 9 Strangers In The Night - Frank Sinatra 6= 8 9 7 6 14625 8 10 Hideaway - Dave Dee, Dozy, Beaky, Mick and Tich 10 11 11 10 10 12885 19 11 Black Is Black - Los Bravos 11 10 12 11 11 12650 20 12 The More I See You - Chris Montez 14 13 10 16 18 11455 NEW 13 Love Letters - Elvis Presley 12 12 13 14 14 11445 23 14 Goin' Back - Dusty Springfield 15= 14 14 15 17 10440 10 15 When A Man Loves A Woman - Percy Sledge 13 15 16 12 13 10380 9 16 Don't Answer Me - Cilla Black 15= 16 15 17 12 10015 13 17 Lana - Roy Orbison 18 17 17 18 16 8875 11 18 Monday Monday - The Mamas and Papas 17 18 21 13 15 8260 14 19 It's A Man's Man's Man's World - James Brown 19 20 18 19 19 7670 18 20 This Door Swings Both Ways - Herman's Hermits 20 25 20 20 20 5985 30 21 Mama - Dave Berry 21= 22 22 22 25 5460 24 22 Sittin' On A Fence - Twice As Much 23 23 19 27 28 5255 17 23 Promises - Ken Dodd 21= 24 24 21 22 4915 NEW 24 With A Girl Like You - The Troggs 24 19 28 23 29 4120 21 25 I Am A Rock - Simon and Garfunkel 26 26 23 23 3680 NEW 26 (Baby) You Don't Have To Tell Me - The Walker Brothers 25 21 29 24 27 3540 27 27 Sloop John B - The Beach Boys 27 26 28 21 2150 25 28 I Need You (EP) - The Walker Brothers 29 30 25 30 2030 29 29 Opus 17 - The Four Seasons 30 26 26 1750 NEW 30 A Place In The Sun - The Shadows 28 27 1600 Over Under Sideways Down - The Yardbirds 28 25 24 1195 Can I Trust You - The Bachelors 29 30 650 Don't Bring Me Down - The Animals 29 26 625 Sorrow - The Merseys 30 85 Leave a comment:
-
Ha , yeah I forgot about that Graham, was very tongue in cheek from the Kinks. Splodj, funnily enough Graham mentioned earlier in the thread and now you have picked up on it too, as have I, that MM does start to go out on a limb a bit at times, and its not for the last time. I'm now working on January 1967 and have raised my eyebrows a few times at MM positions on occasion. Thankfully we have averaging to correct it
Leave a comment:
-
The normally 'midway' Melody Maker went maverick with Sunny Afternoon, which was number one in all the other charts for 2 weeks. Then in a few months it alone had I'm A Boy at number one for 2 weeks.Leave a comment:
-
The film the Kinks did for Sunny Afternoon shows them freezing in the middle of a winter day!
Leave a comment:
-
Greetings Pop Pickers !
Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending 9th July 1966.
Enjoy !
The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending July 9th 1966 NME MM DISC RR Total Last This The Sound Survey Stores 200 250 100 85 Points Week Week The Top 30 Singles Chart BBC TOP 30 Scored 3 1 Sunny Afternoon - The Kinks 1 1 2 1 1 18800 1 2 Paperback Writer - The Beatles 2 4 1 2 2 18265 4 3 Nobody Needs Your Love - Gene Pitney 3 2 3 3 4 17895 7 4 Bus Stop - The Hollies 4 3 4 4 6 17175 6 5 River Deep Mountain High - Ike and Tina Turner 5 5 5 6 3 16580 2 6 Strangers In The Night - Frank Sinatra 6 6 6 5 5 16060 12 7 Get Away - Georgie Fame and The Blue Flames 7 7 7 7 7 15240 10 8 Hideaway - Dave Dee, Dozy, Beaky, Mick and Tich 8 8 8 8 10 14435 5 9 Don't Answer Me - Cilla Black 9 11 9 10 8 13555 9 10 When A Man Loves A Woman - Percy Sledge 10 10 11 11 9 13070 8 11 Monday Monday - The Mamas and Papas 11 12 12 9 11 12450 23 12 I Couldn't Live Without Your Love - Petula Clark 12 9 10 12 21 12400 16 13 Lana - Roy Orbison 13 14 13 14 15 10960 19 14 It's A Man's Man's Man's World - James Brown 15 18 14 15 13 9980 11 15 Over Under Sideways Down - The Yardbirds 14 16 17 13 12 9915 29 16 Out Of Time - Chris Farlowe 16 13 15 18 20 9835 14 17 Promises - Ken Dodd 17 20 18 17 16 8125 25 18 This Door Swings Both Ways - Herman's Hermits 18 21 16 21 18 7855 30 19 Black Is Black - Los Bravos 19 17 19 19 25 7510 NEW 20 The More I See You - Chris Montez 20 15 27 16 26 6125 22 21 I Am A Rock - Simon and Garfunkel 22 24 20 24 17 6040 13 22 Don't Bring Me Down - The Animals 21 23 22 25 14 5895 NEW 23 Goin' Back - Dusty Springfield 27= 19 26 30 3735 NEW 24 Sittin' On A Fence - Twice As Much 27= 27 21 27 3640 24 25 I Need You (EP) - The Walker Brothers 25= 26 25 26 3459 15 26 Sorrow - The Merseys 23 25 30 22 22 3115 18 27 Sloop John B - The Beach Boys 24 29 29 23 19 2720 28 28 Lady Jane - David Garrick 30 23 28 2300 20 29 Opus 17 - The Four Seasons 25= 28 20 24 2295 NEW 30 Mama - Dave Berry 29 24 30 2250 Paint It Black - The Rolling Stones 29 28 27 23 1830 Love Letters - Elvis Presley 22 1800 Wild Thing - The Troggs 29 28 455 Nothing Comes Easy - Sandie Shaw 29 170 Leave a comment:
-
Greetings Pop Pickers !
Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending 2nd July 1966.
The Chiffons' Sweet Talkin' Guy will be back in 1972 to claim a Top 5 place on the back of Northern Soul.
The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending July 2nd 1966 NME MM DISC RR Total Last This The Sound Survey Stores 200 250 100 85 Points Week Week The Top 30 Singles Chart BBC TOP 30 Scored 1 1 Paperback Writer - The Beatles 1 1 1 1 1 19050 2 2 Strangers In The Night - Frank Sinatra 2 2 3 2 2 18165 4 3 Sunny Afternoon - The Kinks 3 3 2 3 3 18030 9 4 Nobody Needs Your Love - Gene Pitney 4 4 5 4 5 16810 5 5 Don't Answer Me - Cilla Black 5= 7 4 5 6 16275 7 6 River Deep Mountain High - Ike and Tina Turner 5= 5 7 6 4 15995 19 7 Bus Stop - The Hollies 7 6 6 7 9 15520 3 8 Monday Monday - The Mamas and Papas 8 10 9 9 8 13855 6 9 When A Man Loves A Woman - Percy Sledge 9 8 11 10 7 13740 14 10 Hideaway - Dave Dee, Dozy, Beaky, Mick and Tich 10 11 10 8 10 13335 10 11 Over Under Sideways Down - The Yardbirds 12 13 8 12 13 12780 26 12 Get Away - Georgie Fame and The Blue Flames 11 9 12 11 12 12765 8 13 Don't Bring Me Down - The Animals 13 14 13 13 11 11400 13 14 Promises - Ken Dodd 14 12 16 14 14 10695 11 15 Sorrow - The Merseys 15 15 14 15 15 10410 21 16 Lana - Roy Orbison 17 16 18 17 20 8585 12 17 Paint It Black - The Rolling Stones 16 18 17 19 16 8575 16 18 Sloop John B - The Beach Boys 18 20 15 18 19 8520 20 19 It's A Man's Man's Man's World - James Brown 19 17 19 20 21 7750 18 20 Opus 17 - The Four Seasons 20 21 22 16 22 6515 15 21 Wild Thing - The Troggs 21 24 20 22 18 6155 30 22 I Am A Rock - Simon and Garfunkel 22 26 21 25 17 5290 NEW 23 I Couldn't Live Without Your Love - Petula Clark 24 19 23 26 4900 NEW 24 I Need You (EP) - The Walker Brothers 23 22 28 21 4179 NEW 25 This Door Swings Both Ways - Herman's Hermits 25 25 27 27 23 3280 17 26 Nothing Comes Easy - Sandie Shaw 26 25 24 24 2795 22 27 Once There Was A Time / Not Responsible - Tom Jones 27 26 23 27 2390 29 28 Lady Jane - David Garrick 28 24 29 28 2205 NEW 29 Out Of Time - Chris Farlowe 29 23 30 30 1950 NEW 30 Black Is Black - Los Bravos 27 800 Sittin' On A Fence - Twice As Much 29 29 670 Mama - Dave Berry 28 600 The More I See You - Chris Montez 28 600 No One Will Ever Know - Frank Ifield 30 25 510 Come On Home - Wayne Fontana 26 425 Sweet Talkin' Guy - The Chiffons 28 300 Shotgun Wedding - Roy C 30 200 Hey Girl - The Small Faces 30 85
Leave a comment:
-
Greetings Pop Pickers !
Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending 25th June 1966.
Incidentally the excellent Sittin' On A Fence by Twice As Much should at least have gone Top Ten. I'm gutted.
The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending June 25th 1966 NME MM DISC RR Total Last This The Sound Survey Stores 200 250 100 85 Points Week Week The Top 30 Singles Chart BBC TOP 30 Scored 2 1 Paperback Writer - The Beatles 1 1 1 1 1 19050 1 2 Stranger In The Night - Frank Sinatra 2 2 2 2 2 18415 3 3 Monday Monday - The Mamas and Papas 3 3 4 3 3 17530 11 4 Sunny Afternoon - The Kinks 4 4 3 6 5 17110 8 5 Don't Answer Me - Cilla Black 5= 5 6 4 7 16190 7 6 When A Man Loves A Woman - Percy Sledge 5= 8 5 5 4 15995 13 7 River Deep Mountain High - Ike and Tina Turner 8 6 10 9 8 14405 5 8 Don't Bring Me Down - The Animals 7 12 7 7 6 14325 16 9 Nobody Needs Your Love - Gene Pitney 9 7 9 8 11 14300 12 10 Over Under Sideways Down - The Yardbirds 10 13 8 11 10 13135 6 11 Sorrow - The Merseys 11 10 11 12 9 12970 4 12 Paint It Black - The Rolling Stones 12 11 12 10 12 12465 10 13 Promises - Ken Dodd 13 9 13 13 13 12230 22 14 Hideaway - Dave Dee, Dozy, Beaky, Mick and Tich 14 14 14 16 14 10595 9 15 Wild Thing - The Troggs 15 15 16 14 15 10010 14 16 Sloop John B - The Beach Boys 16 16 15 15 16 9875 15 17 Nothing Comes Easy - Sandie Shaw 17 22 17 17 17 7890 24 18 Opus 17 - The Four Seasons 18 21 18 19 20 7385 NEW 19 Bus Stop - The Hollies 19 19 20 20 19 7270 29 20 It's A Man's Man's Man's World - James Brown 20 17 24 21 24 6145 NEW 21 Lana - Roy Orbison 21 20 23 18 29 5670 23 22 Once There Was A Time / Not Responsible - Tom Jones 22 25 25 25 18 4405 18 23 Hey Girl - The Small Faces 23 21 23 21 4150 17 24 Rainy Day Women Nos 12 & 35 - Bob Dylan 24 19 24 27 4040 20 25 Come On Home - Wayne Fontana 25 27 22 22 3815 NEW 26 Get Away - Georgie Fame and The Blue Flames 28= 18 28 2855 21 27 Pretty Flamingo - Manfred Mann 26 29 26 26 25 2660 19 28 Shotgun Wedding - Roy C 27 28 27 22 30 2585 NEW 29 Lady Jane - David Garrick 30 24 28 27 2550 NEW 30 I Am A Rock - Simon and Garfunkel 28= 26 29 30 23 2280 I Need You (EP) - The Walker Brothers 23 29 1800 Sittin' On A Fence - Twice As Much 30 30 450 Daydream - The Lovin' Spoonful 26 425 Sweet Talkin' Guy - The Chiffons 28 300 Leave a comment:
-
Yeah Brian that's fine. I just wanted to show how close your chart is to the actual sales, just in case people think a chart based on 600+ shops would be way out compared to one based on the lot. As you can see it's very close with many tied positions.
Keep up the good work. -
Greetings Pop Pickers !
Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending 18th June 1966. Enjoy.
The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending June 18th 1966 NME MM DISC RR Total Last This The Sound Survey Stores 200 250 100 85 Points Week Week The Top 30 Singles Chart BBC TOP 30 Scored 1 1 Strangers In The Night - Frank Sinatra 1 1 2 1 1 18800 NEW 2 Paperback Writer - The Beatles 2 2 1 2 2 18665 3 3 Monday Monday - The Mamas and Papas 3 3 3 3 3 17780 2 4 Paint It Black - The Rolling Stones 4 4 5 4 6 16725 8 5 Don't Bring Me Down - The Animals 6= 6 4 7 7 16190 5 6 Sorrow - The Merseys 5 5 7 5 4 16095 6 7 When A Man Loves A Woman - Percy Sledge 6= 7 6 6 5 15760 17 8 Don't Answer Me - Cilla Black 9 9 9 10 11 13700 4 9 Wild Thing - The Troggs 8 8 12 8 9 13520 7 10 Promises - Ken Dodd 10 11 11 9 8 13155 24 11 Sunny Afternoon - The Kinks 12 10 8 14 14 13095 15 12 Over Under Sideways Down - The Yardbirds 11 14 10 12 10 12335 21 13 River Deep Mountain High - Ike and Tina Turner 14 12 13 15 12 11515 10 14 Sloop John B - The Beach Boys 13 13 14 11 13 11380 14 15 Nothing Comes Easy - Sandie Shaw 15 17 15 13 16 9875 25 16 Nobody Needs Your Love - Gene Pitney 18 15 16 20 18 9155 9 17 Rainy Day Women Nos 12 & 35 - Bob Dylan 16 16 18 17 15 9010 11 18 Hey Girl - Small Faces 17 17 17 16 17 8990 13 19 Shotgun Wedding - Roy C 19 19 20 18 23 7130 16 20 Come On Home - Wayne Fontana 20 21 19 21 20 6935 12 21 Pretty Flamingo - Manfred Mann 21 20 21 19 22 6665 NEW 22 Hideaway - Dave Dee, Dozy, Beaky, Mick and Tich 22 22 22 22 21 5800 19 23 Once There Was A Time / Not Responsible - Tom Jones 23 23 23 23 19 5420 NEW 24 Opus 17 - The Four Seasons 24 25 24 26 25 3960 18 25 I Love Her - Paul and Barry Ryan 25 25 24 24 2795 26 26 Stop Her On Sight - Edwin Starr 26 24 28 27 2550 NEW 27 Sweet Talkin' Guy - The Chiffons 27 27 26 29 2250 20 28 Daydream - The Lovin' Spoonful 30= 27 30 1100 NEW 29 It's A Man's Man's Man's World - James Brown 29 26 30 1085 29 30 Twinkie Lee - Gary Walker 28 28 26 1025 You Don't Have To Say You Love Me - Dusty Springfield 25 29 770 Lady Jane - David Garrick 30= 30 29 700 Lana - Roy Orbison 29 400 Eight Miles High - The Byrds 30= 27 340 The Pied Piper - Crispian St Peters 28 300 I Am A Rock - Simon and Garfunkel 28 255 Sittin' On A Fence - Twice As Much 30 250
Leave a comment:
-
Graham may I respectfully ask that if you wish to post your Real Charts and make comparisons with mine that you open a thread to share that information as my thread here is to solely post, share, and discuss my project of The Ultimate Averaged Charts. It gets confusing and focus is lost if we keep branching off into comparisons with your Real Charts and dilutes what I am trying to achieve here.
That said I still want to welcome you, your valuable input, and background knowledge in discussion around my charts here on this site. You have made many interesting thought provoking points along the way and I really do want those to continue but I just want to keep this thread entirely relevant to the topic in hand.
Thanks Graham.Leave a comment:
-
I thought you like to see how small the differences are between the Real Chart (in Red) and Brian's. The same week as the 11 June 1966 (my 6 birthday) With blue sales figures
1 Strangers In The Night - Frank Sinatra 1 144K
2 Paint It Black - The Rolling Stones 3 109K
3 Monday Monday - The Mamas and Papas 2 110K
4 Wild Thing - The Troggs 5
5 Sorrow - The Merseys 4
6 When A Man Loves A Woman - Percy Sledge 7
7 Promises - Ken Dodd 6
8 Don't Bring Me Down - The Animals 9
9 Rainy Day Women Nos 12 & 35 - Bob Dylan 8
10 Sloop John B - The Beach Boys 15
11 Hey Girl - The Small Faces 11
12 Pretty Flamingo - Manfred Mann 16
13 Shotgun Wedding - Roy C 13
14 Nothing Comes Easy - Sandie Shaw 10
15 Over Under Sideways Down - The Yardbirds 17
16 Come On Home - Wayne Fontana 14
17 Don't Answer Me - Cilla Black 19
18 I Love Her - Paul and Barry Ryan 12
19 Once There Was A Time / Not Responsible - Tom Jones 22
20 Daydream - The Lovin' Spoonful 18
21 River Deep Mountain High - Ike and Tina Turner 21
22 You Don't Have To Say You Love Me - Dusty Springfield 23
23 The Pied Piper - Crispian St Peters 20
24 Sunny Afternoon - The Kinks 24
25 Nobody Needs Your Love - Gene Pitney 42 - hype indication
26 Stop Her On Sight - Edwin Starr 28
27 (You're My) Soul And Inspiration - The Righteous Brothers 38
28 Hold Tight - Dave Dee, Dozy, Beaky, Mick and Tich 49 - Probably poor distribution as it's not new
29 Twinkie Lee - Gary Walker 27
30 Eight Miles High - The Byrds 29
California Dreamin' - The Mamas and Papas 25
Bang Bang - Cher 41
Opus 17 - The 4 Seasons 31 - correct spelling of the group - at that time!
Sweet Talkin' Guy - The Chiffons 32
Can't Live Without You - The Mindbenders 36
I Feel A Cry Comin' On - Hank Locklin 53
I'm Comin' Home Cindy - Trini Lopez 68 - never got higher than 40
Real Chart Only
Lady Jane - David Garrick 30 new to the 30
Machines EP - Manfred Mann 26 - Got as high as 20.Leave a comment:
-
I not too clear on which of the published 60's charts effected the following weeks sales. All the paper based charts were sent out to the shops so they knew what these charts looked like. However I would have thought it would be confusing to the public. I have not heard of the BBC's own chart being sent out, so if you could remember the TOTP position or the Pick of The Pops one telling the shop keeper you wanted number 12 from that would see some blank looks.Originally posted by Splodj View Post
What I do know is the ones falling down on these top 50 are always in the Real Chart 100 somewhere.
The Real Chart can be done retrospectively because every part of human life is recorded, they same way many of us recorded the songs on the top 40 shows. Just using technology that we just don't have - yet.
If I was to do a Marty McFly and travel back to 1966 and present each week the Real Chart to the public (all) then only the current week, I went there would be correct. As soon as the public saw the top 100, buying patterns would change. And the next chart would become incorrect, getting worse each week, especially if TOTP used the chart.
However I am not time travelling.
What I do know is that as the BMRB chart takes over, that should effect it's own chart. But in reality it doesn't. Especially when the shops start to layout the entire top 50 in the shops. But then not all shops laid out the full chart. Some went for as little as 20 or 10, places, especially when 12 Singles came along. With the public tending to pick up what is the charts as laid out in store. So that if the Official chart places a record outside the shops chart - be it a 30, 20 or 10 layout, that record will fall like a stone the following week. And in the the 30 and 20 and not on TV, climb fast! My findings however reveal that this is not the case. And the top 50 becomes a law onto itself. They only reason that would explain this would be the rules and the way the chart is made up. Again to represent a full NATIONAL chart when not ALL shops are taking part is to sample them. You take 10 shops to represent 50 for example. And weight the sales from 10 to turn them into 50. But the shops are not selling tins of baked beans or bread. It's entirely subjective. One out of the 10 might have been affected by bad weather. But 25 of the 50 might have been too. So overestimated sales and underestimated sales play a part. It's known regional sales and football records (unless it was a National team thing) were ignored by the National chart, regardless of how much they sell.
The point I am making is that the rules any chart uses, including Brian's chart, affect how that chart looks. And unless Brian can locate the weekly sales books of over 8,000 shops and add them up (I will settle for any week any year) then even Brian's chart is flawed and as bad as though 60's charts it's based on. By the way the more I read about these 60's chart compilations the number of shops listed as taking part is not as precise as the figures Brian's uses. And I have read that Record Retailer arrived too late to make up the BBC's own chart. So adding it's 85 shops seems to be retrospective anyway.
Don't get me wrong Brian. As I have said these charts you are doing are better than the BBC's charts at the time. But they are a creation of charts done after the events using methods and system of calculations you have invented to do the job. And they will have hyped records. Michael Cable in his 1977 book makes it clear that the papers and record companies openly negotiated with each other for placements in the charts for advertising space. At the end of the day Brian just because several of these charts have the same record at 19 doesn't mean that record sold lots of copies. It simply means that a number of record shops reported it as selling well. NOT 200 of them either perhaps 50, less in some charts.
As for the sameness, well the BBC finally gave up when the sameness gave a different number one in each chart. Hence the creation of the BMRB chart.Leave a comment:
-
Greetings Pop Pickers !
Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending 11th June 1966. Enjoy.
The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending June 11th 1966 NME MM DISC RR Total Last This The Sound Survey Stores 200 250 100 85 Points Week Week The Top 30 Singles Chart BBC TOP 30 Scored 1 1 Strangers In The Night - Frank Sinatra 1 1 1 1 1 19050 2 2 Paint It Black - The Rolling Stones 2 2 3 2 2 18165 4 3 Monday Monday - The Mamas and Papas 3 3 2 3 5 17860 3 4 Wild Thing - The Troggs 4 4 4 5 3 17130 5 5 Sorrow - The Merseys 5 5 5 4 4 16695 10 6 When A Man Loves A Woman - Percy Sledge 6 6 6 7 7 15690 8 7 Promises - Ken Dodd 7 7 7 8 6 15225 18 8 Don't Bring Me Down - The Animals 8 8 8 6 8 14805 9 9 Rainy Day Women Nos 12 & 35 - Bob Dylan 10 10 9 10 10 13585 7 10 Sloop John B - The Beach Boys 9 9 11 9 9 13470 11 11 Hey Girl - The Small Faces 11 13 12 11 11 12050 6 12 Pretty Flamingo - Manfred Mann 12 11 13 12 13 11930 12 13 Shotgun Wedding - Roy C 13 12 14 13 12 11465 14 14 Nothing Comes Easy - Sandie Shaw 14 16 10 14 14 11395 NEW 15 Over Under Sideways Down - The Yardbirds 15 15 16 15 15 9910 17 16 Come On Home - Wayne Fontana 16 17 15 18 16 9375 NEW 17 Don't Answer Me - Cilla Black 17 14 19 16 25 8410 19 18 I Love Her - Paul and Barry Ryan 18 25 17 19 17 7090 22 19 Once There Was A Time / Not Responsible - Tom Jones 19 21 20 20 18 6955 13 20 Daydream - The Lovin' Spoonful 20 24 18 21 20 6585 NEW 21 River Deep Mountain High - Ike and Tina Turner 22 18 21 17 6500 16 22 You Don't Have To Say You Love Me - Dusty Springfield 21 20 23 23 19 6020 15 23 The Pied Piper - Crispian St Peters 23 26 22 25 21 4700 NEW 24 Sunny Afternoon - The Kinks 25 22 24 24 4250 NEW 25 Nobody Needs Your Love - Gene Pitney 24 19 28 22 4050 30 26 Stop Her On Sight - Edwin Starr 26 23 26 30 2950 23 27 (You're My) Soul And Inspiration - The Righteous Brothers 28 25 28 27 2140 21 28 Hold Tight - Dave Dee, Dozy, Beaky, Mick and Tich 27 27 29 23 1880 NEW 29 Twinkie Lee - Gary Walker 29 27 27 28 1455 28 30 Eight Miles High - The Byrds 29 24 1095 California Dreamin' - The Mamas and Papas 30 26 26 925 Bang Bang - Cher 22 765 Opus 17 - The Four Seasons 29 30 650 Sweet Talkin' Guy - The Chiffons 28 600 Can't Live Without You - The Mindbenders 30 200 I Feel A Cry Comin' On - Hank Locklin 29 170 I'm Comin' Home Cindy - Trini Lopez 30 85 Leave a comment:
-
All the data on how the Real Chart is done can be found on my blog site. Just search "Real Chart Graham Appleyard" for it. The 1965 and 1966 charts full PDF's can be found on the 60's chart page of it. The 1967 charts are ongoing. -
Greetings Pop Pickers !
Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending 4th June 1966 for your interest.
The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending June 4th 1966 NME MM DISC RR Total Last This The Sound Survey Stores 200 250 100 85 Points Week Week The Top 30 Singles Chart BBC TOP 30 Scored 3 1 Strangers In The Night - Frank Sinatra 1 1 1 1 1 19050 1 2 Paint It Black - The Rolling Stones 2 2 2 2 2 18415 2 3 Wild Thing - The Troggs 3 3 3 3 3 17780 7 4 Monday Monday - The Mamas and Papas 5 4 4 6 5 16860 5 5 Sorrow - The Merseys 4 5 5 4 4 16695 4 6 Pretty Flamingo - Manfred Mann 6 6 6 5 12 15465 6 7 Sloop John B - The Beach Boys 7 7 11 7 6 14325 12 8 Promises - Ken Dodd 8 9 9 8 8 14155 10 9 Rainy Day Women Nos 12 & 35 - Bob Dylan 10 11 7 12 7 13940 14 10 When A Man Loves A Woman - Percy Sledge 9 8 10 9 9 13920 9 11 Hey Girl - The Small Faces 11 12 8 11 10 13335 8 12 Shotgun Wedding - Roy C 12 10 12 10 11 12750 11 13 Daydream - The Lovin' Spoonful 13 13 13 13 15 11260 25 14 Nothing Comes Easy - Sandie Shaw 14 15 15 17 14 10045 15 15 The Pied Piper - Crispian St Peters 15 16 16 15 16 9625 13 16 You Don't Have To Say You Love Me - Dusty Springfield 16 19 14 14 17 9540 18 17 Come On Home - Wayne Fontana 17 14 17 18 18 9305 NEW 18 Don't Bring Me Down - The Animals 18 17 19 19 13 8530 21 19 I Love Her - Paul and Barry Ryan 19 18 18 16 19 8370 16 20 Bang Bang - Cher 20 20 20 21 22 6715 19 21 Hold Tight - Dave Dee, Dozy, Beaky, Mick and Tich 21 23 21 20 24 5795 NEW 22 Once There Was A Time / Not Responsible - Tom Jones 23 21 24 24 20 5385 20 23 (You're My) Soul And Inspiration - The Righteous Brothers 22 29 22 22 25 4060 22 24 Alfie - Cilla Black 25 26 23 25 3600 26 25 Can't Live Without You - The Mindbenders 26 22 27 27 3200 17 26 Homeward Bound - Simon and Garfunkel 24 25 28 23 26 3175 23 27 How Does That Grab You Darlin' - Nancy Sinatra 29 25 26 29 2170 NEW 28 Eight Miles High - The Byrds 30 28 26 30 1935 27 29 California Dreamin' - The Mamas and Papas 27 27 28 23 1780 NEW 30 Stop Her On Sight - Edwin Starr 23 1600 Over Under Sideways Down - The Yardbirds 28 30 29 21 1250 That's Nice - Neil Christian 29 30 600 Twinkie Lee - Gary Walker 30 27 540 I'm Comin' Home Cindy - Trini Lopez 28 255 I Feel A Cry Comin' On - Hank Locklin 30 250 Leave a comment:
-
I agree wholeheartedly Splodj. To quote yet again, we have what we have, and what we have is the actual history as it happened, imperfections and all. Nothing can overwrite that.Leave a comment:
-
Published charts create their own dynamic, influencing what happens the following week. So if you could go back in time and have charts published based on actual sales instead and these were different, it would not just be entering a parallel universe - but branching parallel universes every week.Leave a comment:
-
Like I said above though Graham, the times were what they were, nothing can change that, but although all the charts broadly disagreed on some of the record positioning they also broadly agreed on the same records within the actual top thirties themselves.
I don't believe the sixties charts were 'rotten' to the extent you suggest. Lower than 30 yes, open to manipulation, hence why MM reverted to a Top 30 back in 1967 and why even in the era of BMRB the BBC only used the Top 30.
I stand by the averaging principle I use as the best possible chart retrospectively. It is based on open transparent data available for all to see and be able to further examine and scrutinise.
It's not perfect, I have never claimed it to be such, no chart from the time was, but it is I believe the best possible.
You refer to your Real Chart using sales figures you have in comparison to my averaged chart which uses points so it would be of great interest to me, and probably others as well, if you could present the actual written evidence you have in a transparent and credible manner to support your database, calculations and methodology for the Real Chart positions, open to scrutiny, just like how I present my database and methodology here when posting The Ultimate Averaged Chart and welcome the same scrutiny.Last edited by MrTibbs; Mon September 7, 2020, 08:24.Leave a comment:
-
Brian, err we do know what was hyped. The Real Chart doesn't include any record that was fiddled into the chart. The 1966 Real Charts were done well before you started to do these charts. I have been comparing what is in these top 30's with what the actual sales positions are from the Real Chart. I haven't been able to do that before. But your charts can show me and everyone else what records would have been in the top 30 and those that are either selling in low quantities from things like poor distribution, or those that have been hyped. Seeing that you are trying to create a top 30 of these charts, then it is bound to include records that were hyped into the component charts that make it up. Records, even ones that you would think were very popular with the public from the day they came out, were hyped into the charts. Sandie Shaw was only just in at 29, but all the charts show it higher than that, indicating some manipulation of the track going on.Originally posted by MrTibbs View Post
In the compilation of the charts article records could be hyped into the top 30. One man at the time said that some would push records into the top 20. However record companies didn't have a clue of what was actually selling, since all they knew was how many records were sent out. Much like the distribution chart used in the Missing Hits book of the 1940's to 1952. To even hype a record there must be plenty of copies out there for people to really buy. And re-orders wouldn't start coming in for modest hits till the stocks ran low. The only way the record labels knew a record was selling was large re-orders. And most of them were top five sellers. Which the labels wouldn't need to fix!
Yes they say they used 200 stores, but that was not true. It was a sample of 200 stores. Had they actually used all 200 stores, plus rated the store on size and turnover then they would have got a much better chart, but they didn't. Besides the record companies knew all the stores. You could simply buy the list. But the reps on the ground would quickly know if the store was filling in returns for these papers. For Christ's sake EMI even told which shops for the Retailer to use!
So any "new" record more than ten places ahead of where the Real Chart has it that week, is either a chart error, but more likely hyped.
So the Geneveve record at 30 on any chart and 85 on the Real Chart was hyped. It was selling and that happens with nearly all the top 50 tracks. Largely because any record that makes one of these components charts will be there for the public to ask for when they go into a shop to buy it. Only a few rare occasions, such as the 1967 Jeff Beck (Silver) record, which makes the top 30's of several charts without even entering the Real Chart 100 and on RR chart for nearly six weeks too, before it enters the top 100, the public just refused to buy them.
Brian your chart is good, but it still made up of rotten charts being fiddled by very greedy people. That includes the record stores themselves. A friend of mine, who was often in Sheffield record shops doing odd jobs was told by one shop owner that they would often put down as the top seller a record they had plenty of copies that had shifted hardly any. He asked wouldn't the chart compilers pick up on that? No was the answer, for the other stores would probably be doing the same. The result of this was a chart entry, TOTP and people buying that record that wasn't selling!
It's not like downloads, the shops had to have say 300 singles to sell. If they didn't sell them they lost money. If people buy 5 downloads the shop hasn't lost any money. If people buy only 5 records out of 300, the shop has lost money.Leave a comment:
-
To be objective, and realistic, all of the charts were flawed back then pure and simple. Each had a degree of accuracy but not one could claim to be 100% accurate. Why ?, none used actual sales figures which has already been pointed out here a few times so without that they were all really only a guide to what was selling.
We all have our preferences as to which was the most representative and that debate rages on and shows no sign of abating.
But to be honest we will never realistically ever have the sales figures for the period to compile a completely accurate definitive chart. We have what we have and have to live with that fact.
So that said, it stands to reason that the best we can ever have is a robust composite chart, that takes account of all charts and by the averaging process eliminate the extremes and errors from each chart by finding the middle point which is probably the most accurate and reliable outcome we can ever expect.
I strive to pursue that goal for us all and hopefully am delivering the best outcome possible given the raw data I have to work with.
Leave a comment:
-
Good points, Splodj. However, it turns out RR is both: they were a lagger week to week (which might fluctuate over time), plus their peaks per record chart run disagreed the most often compared to the other charts, well for Top 10s anyway. Check out this study I did 3 years ago comparing the peaks of every Top 10 record March 1960 to Feb 1969, which chart had the most peak outliers, the distances from the average peak, also broken into 3 time periods when there were 5, 4, and 3 charts. RR was consistently the odd man out:Originally posted by Splodj View Post
https://www.ukmix.org/forum/chart-di...ts=&highlight=
Leave a comment:
- Welcome to UKMIX! We've been online for over 20 years and we continue to welcome new posters to our community! Before you can post, you will have to register (click the register link to proceed). To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below. Please use the Contact Us facility if you have any queries!
Leave a comment: