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The Ultimate Averaged Chart - The BBC Chart Re-Imagined

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  • Speaking of Buddy Holly, wow: Hit Parade records is releasing a CD on Friday of 30 of Buddy's hits in digitally extracted stereo. Go here to hear the 30 sec clips. Totally amazing:

    https://www.ericrecords.com/buddy_holly.html

    Comment


    • Originally posted by RokinRobinOfLocksley View Post
      Speaking of Buddy Holly, wow: Hit Parade records is releasing a CD on Friday of 30 of Buddy's hits in digitally extracted stereo. Go here to hear the 30 sec clips. Totally amazing:

      https://www.ericrecords.com/buddy_holly.html
      That's one I gotta have
      The Record Mirror Chart Re-Calculated, Re-Worked, Extended

      The Way It Was Meant To Be

      Comment


      • Originally posted by braindeadpj View Post
        Minor error on the 16th May chart as you have The Virtues moving down from 19 instead of being a new entry.
        Thanks David I've corrected that.
        The Record Mirror Chart Re-Calculated, Re-Worked, Extended

        The Way It Was Meant To Be

        Comment


        • Greetings Pop Pickers

          ​​​​Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending May 30th 1959

          Here are all '' the uppers, the downers, the just hanging 'arounders '

          The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending May 30th 1959 NME MM DISC RM Total
          Last This The Sound Survey 75 25 40 60 Points
          Week Week The Top 30 Singles Chart BBC TOP 30 Scored
          1 1 A Fool Such As I / I Need Your Love Tonight - Elvis Presley 1 1 1 1 1 6000
          2 2 It Doesn't Matter Anymore - Buddy Holly 2 2 2 2 2 5800
          3 3 It's Late / Never Be Anyone Else But You - Ricky Nelson 3 3 3 3 3 5600
          15 4 Roulette - Russ Conway 4 6 5 5 5 5125
          7 5 I've Waited So Long - Anthony Newley 6 4 7 10 4 5085
          5 6 Donna - Marty Wilde 5 7 4 6 6 4975
          4 7 Side Saddle - Russ Conway 7 5 8 4 9 4925
          11 8 I Go Ape - Neil Sedaka 8 10 6 7 11 4360
          10 9 Mean Streak / Never Mind - Cliff Richard 9 12 9 8 8 4275
          6 10 Come Softly To Me - The Fleetwoods 10 10 10 9 10 4240
          8 11 Petite Fleur - Chris Barber 11 8 11 11 14 4045
          9 12 Come Softly To Me - Frankie Vaughan and The Kaye Sisters 12 9 13 12 12 4000
          14 13 Guitar Boogie Shuffle - Bert Weedon 13 13 12 17 7 3825
          12 14 Charlie Brown - The Coasters 15= 14 16 16 20 2910
          17 15 Where Were You On Our Wedding Day - Lloyd Price 15= 17 17 18 15 2880
          13 16 Fort Worth Jail - Lonnie Donegan 15= 16 13 17 2685
          26 17 Margie - Fats Domino 19= 18 16 1875
          22 18 Three Stars - Ruby Wright 21 18 18 1855
          19 19 May You Always - The McGuire Sisters 14 15 15 1840
          29 20 Poor Jenny / Take A Message To Mary - The Everly Brothers 18 29 14 13 1655
          23 21 Wait For Me / Willingly - Malcolm Vaughan 19 20 1340
          20 22 Idle On Parade (EP) - Anthony Newley 23 14 1280
          16 23 C'mon Everybody - Eddie Cochran 19= 26 15 19 1255
          25 24 May You Always - Joan Regan 20 825
          21 25 Venus - Frankie Avalon 21 750
          24 26 Guitar Boogie Shuffle - The Virtues 19 720
          18 27 Smoke Gets In Your Eyes - The Platters 24 525
          30 28 For A Penny - Pat Boone 28 20 500
          NEW 29 You Made Me Love You - Nat King Cole 25 450
          NEW 30 Dream Lover - Bobby Darin 27 300
          Pink Shoe Laces - Dodie Stevens 19 300
          My Happiness - Connie Francis 30 75
          27 Lovin' Up A Storm - Jerry Lee Lewis
          28 Venus - Dickie Valentine
          The Record Mirror Chart Re-Calculated, Re-Worked, Extended

          The Way It Was Meant To Be

          Comment


          • I thought 'Ra Ra Rockingham', which was released in May, was hit worthy. But after 'Wee Tom' Lord Rockingham's XI never troubled the charts again. Although the laird himself had a long career in the music business.

            Comment


            • In comes one of my all time favourite records this week, Bobby Darin's Dream Lover. Timeless and evocative. Bobby at his very best.
              The Record Mirror Chart Re-Calculated, Re-Worked, Extended

              The Way It Was Meant To Be

              Comment


              • The BBC Chart for May 30th again has several errors. Pointswise, no.14 is Charlie Brown, Poor Jenny is at 17 and May You Always is at 18 suggesting someone made a mistake adding up the values.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by braindeadpj View Post
                  The BBC Chart for May 30th again has several errors. Pointswise, no.14 is Charlie Brown, Poor Jenny is at 17 and May You Always is at 18 suggesting someone made a mistake adding up the values.
                  We are of one mind here David. BBC compilation was shoddy.
                  The Record Mirror Chart Re-Calculated, Re-Worked, Extended

                  The Way It Was Meant To Be

                  Comment


                  • Greetings Pop Pickers

                    ​​​​Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending June 6th 1959

                    Here are all '' the uppers, the downers, the just hanging 'arounders '

                    The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending June 6th 1959 NME MM DISC RM Total
                    Last This The Sound Survey 75 25 40 60 Points
                    Week Week The Top 30 Singles Chart BBC TOP 30 Scored
                    1 1 A Fool Such As I / I Need Your Love Tonight - Elvis Presley 1 1 1 1 1 6000
                    2 2 It Doesn't Matter Anymore - Buddy Holly 2 2 2 2 2 5800
                    3 3 It's Late / Never Be Anyone Else But You - Ricky Nelson 3 4 3 3 4 5465
                    4 4 Roulette - Russ Conway 4 5 4 4 3 5385
                    5 5 I've Waited So Long - Anthony Newley 5 3 5 10 5 5150
                    7 6 Side Saddle - Russ Conway 6 6 11 5 8 4795
                    6 7 Donna - Marty Wilde 7 9 8 8 7 4585
                    9 8 Mean Streak / Never Mind - Cliff Richard 8= 11 7 7 9 4380
                    13 9 Guitar Boogie Shuffle - Bert Weedon 10 10 10 12 6 4360
                    8 10 I Go Ape - Neil Sedaka 8= 12 6 6 10 4310
                    10 11 Come Softly To Me - The Fleetwoods 11 7 9 9 17 4070
                    11 12 Petite Fleur - Chris Barber 12 8 14 11 18 3730
                    12 13 Come Softly To Me - Frankie Vaughan and The Kaye Sisters 13 13 16 13 12 3585
                    20 14 Poor Jenny / Take A Message To Mary - The Everly Brothers 14 17 12 15 11 3365
                    15 15 Where Were You On Our Wedding Day - Lloyd Price 15 15 15 17 15 3120
                    30 16 Dream Lover - Bobby Darin 16 16 13 13 2655
                    14 17 Charlie Brown - The Coasters 17 14 18 19 2080
                    24 18 May You Always - Joan Regan 18 21 17 16 2000
                    19 19 May You Always - The McGuire Sisters 19 18 20 18 1770
                    17 20 Margie - Fats Domino 19 19 1620
                    18 21 Three Stars - Ruby Wright 20= 24 14 1545
                    NEW 22 A Teenager In Love - Marty Wilde 26 19 20 1335
                    16 23 Fort Worth Jail - Lonnie Donegan 23 16 1200
                    22 24 Idle On Parade (EP) - Anthony Newley 20= 14 680
                    29 25 You Made Me Love You - Nat King Cole 22 675
                    21 26 Wait For Me / Willingly - Malcolm Vaughan 24 525
                    23 27 C'mon Everybody - Eddie Cochran 30 20 515
                    NEW 28 Kansas City - Little Richard 26 375
                    NEW 29 Goodbye Jimmy Goodbye - Ruby Murray 28 225
                    28 30 For A Penny - Pat Boone 29 150
                    25 Venus - Frankie Avalon
                    26 Guitar Boogie Shuffle - The Virtues
                    27 Smoke Gets In Your Eyes - The Platters
                    Never Be Anyone Else But You - Ricky Nelson (B) 20
                    The Record Mirror Chart Re-Calculated, Re-Worked, Extended

                    The Way It Was Meant To Be

                    Comment


                    • Every chart , NME, MM, RM, DISC , this week has at least one big 'outlier' somewhere that is way out of touch with the others which is a rarity.
                      The Record Mirror Chart Re-Calculated, Re-Worked, Extended

                      The Way It Was Meant To Be

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by MrTibbs View Post
                        Every chart , NME, MM, RM, DISC , this week has at least one big 'outlier' somewhere that is way out of touch with the others which is a rarity.
                        Yes, that's definitely an oddity. The top 2 remain locked in place. Disc are slow off the mark with 'Dream Lover' though I doubt it is holding back the track by much on the UAC. It'll be interesting to see where the single charts on the Disc top 20 "next week".

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by MrTibbs View Post
                          We are of one mind here David. BBC compilation was shoddy.
                          It was indeed, but these latest 3 are again at the bottom end where some extra rules may have been going on. Only one of them, the new entry, would have had its position mentioned on POTP. All 20 positions were only specified from 1962, and you had to listen to the whole show to discover them.

                          The Top 20 wasn't fully revealed in one swoop until the appearance of that TOTP display board in 1964. I wonder how long it took to assemble. The show started on Wednesdays, so on Bank Holidays I imagine it was a challenge to wait for the laggardly RR charts to arrive, do the calculations and prepare the board in time!

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Splodj View Post

                            It was indeed, but these latest 3 are again at the bottom end where some extra rules may have been going on. Only one of them, the new entry, would have had its position mentioned on POTP. All 20 positions were only specified from 1962, and you had to listen to the whole show to discover them.

                            The Top 20 wasn't fully revealed in one swoop until the appearance of that TOTP display board in 1964. I wonder how long it took to assemble. The show started on Wednesdays, so on Bank Holidays I imagine it was a challenge to wait for the laggardly RR charts to arrive, do the calculations and prepare the board in time!
                            Unfortunately there doesn't seem to be any information as to whether the BBC made any extra rules or not at this time. I actually don't believe so because if they couldn't be bothered compiling an accurate chart that stood up to scrutiny then I can't see them compiling rules to manage it.

                            I forgot all about that Top Twenty display board on TOTP. Thinking back now at the start of these early shows it started with 'Yes It's No 1 It's Top Of The Pops' then they played a bit of the No 1 record while the cameras scrolled down the display board showing the positions.
                            I believed them at the time as being definitive but all credibility for me has now gone when we consider the level of mistakes made in compilation
                            The Record Mirror Chart Re-Calculated, Re-Worked, Extended

                            The Way It Was Meant To Be

                            Comment


                            • The moment I fully realised the 'Official' charts had won was when I saw that TOTP anniversary show where the BBC presented what they claimed was the first display board ... with RR positions!

                              https://images.app.goo.gl/W3vp8yRULM9LU7Xb8

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Splodj View Post
                                The moment I fully realised the 'Official' charts had won was when I saw that TOTP anniversary show where the BBC presented what they claimed was the first display board ... with RR positions!

                                https://images.app.goo.gl/W3vp8yRULM9LU7Xb8
                                Needless to say, this INFURIATES me !!

                                Comment


                                • Originally posted by Splodj View Post

                                  It was indeed, but these latest 3 are again at the bottom end where some extra rules may have been going on. Only one of them, the new entry, would have had its position mentioned on POTP. All 20 positions were only specified from 1962, and you had to listen to the whole show to discover them.
                                  There's no possible logical extra chart rule that would explain the errors in positions. However, if they were not all going to be featured, perhaps the BBC didn't care if the lower half of the charts weren't correct as most of the time the errors are in the bottom half of the top 20.
                                  Last edited by braindeadpj; Sat June 4, 2022, 03:11.

                                  Comment


                                  • Positions 19 and both equal 20s in the BBC Chart of 6/6/59 are actually all equal 19 as they are on the same points. It makes no sense for a new entry (Three Stars) and a reentry (Idle on Parade (EP)) to be placed below a song that's dropping (May You Always, McGuire Sisters) when the points are equal, so again it suggests that they have miscalculated.

                                    Comment


                                    • One of the quirks of doing these calculations by hand is the significance of the order in which you write out the records on your scoresheet. An error is more difficult to spot if the 'base' chart used places a record near where your total places it.

                                      For example, in that recent case of a 10 point error they must have used one of two charts as their base. If they had used either of the other two the error would have been obvious.

                                      Not in any way a reasonable excuse, but perhaps an explanation.
                                      Last edited by Splodj; Sat June 4, 2022, 13:15.

                                      Comment


                                      • Originally posted by Splodj View Post
                                        One of the quirks of doing these calculations by hand is the significance of the order in which you write out the records on your scoresheet. An error is more difficult to spot if the 'base' chart used places a record near where your total places it.

                                        For example, in that recent case of a 10 point error they must have used one of two charts as their base. If they had used either of the other two the error would have been obvious.

                                        Not in any way a reasonable excuse, but perhaps an explanation.
                                        Yes the BBC could have been doing with excel back then. Obviously the compiler performed poorly at school in mental arithmetic and adding up
                                        The Record Mirror Chart Re-Calculated, Re-Worked, Extended

                                        The Way It Was Meant To Be

                                        Comment


                                        • Greetings Pop Pickers

                                          ​​​​Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending June 13th 1959

                                          Here are all '' the uppers, the downers, the just hanging 'arounders '

                                          The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending June 13th 1959 NME MM DISC RM Total
                                          Last This The Sound Survey 75 25 40 60 Points
                                          Week Week The Top 30 Singles Chart BBC TOP 30 Scored
                                          1 1 A Fool Such As I / I Need Your Love Tonight - Elvis Presley 1 1 1 1 1 6000
                                          4 2 Roulette - Russ Conway 2 2 4 3 2 5710
                                          3 3 It's Late / Never Be Anyone Else Like You - Ricky Nelson 3 4 3 2 3 5565
                                          2 4 It Doesn't Matter Anymore - Buddy Holly 4 3 2 4 4 5525
                                          16 5 Dream Lover - Bobby Darin 6 5 5 10 5 5000
                                          5 6 I've Waited So Long - Anthony Newley 5 6 6 6 6 5000
                                          10 7 I Go Ape - Neil Sedaka 7 9 7 8 10 4430
                                          6 8 Side Saddle - Russ Conway 8= 7 12 7 12 4375
                                          8 9 Mean Streak / Never Mind - Cliff Richard 8= 11 8 5 14 4135
                                          22 10 A Teenager In Love - Marty Wilde 10= 8 14 15 9 4110
                                          9 11 Guitar Boogie Shuffle - Bert Weedon 10= 12 9 18 7 3935
                                          13 12 Come Softly To Me - Frankie Vaughan and The Kaye Sisters 10= 10 10 13 13 3900
                                          7 13 Donna - Marty Wilde 13 12 13 9 15 3715
                                          21 14 Three Stars - Ruby Wright 14 19 11 14 8 3460
                                          14 15 Poor Jenny / Take A Message To Mary - The Everly Brothers 15 20 20 11 11 3100
                                          12 16 Petite Fleur - Chris Barber 16 14 12 19 2755
                                          11 17 Come Softly To Me - The Fleetwoods 17 18 16 16 18 2730
                                          18 18 May You Always - Joan Regan 19= 17 18 20 20 2475
                                          15 19 Where Were You On Our Wedding Day - Lloyd Price 19= 16 17 1685
                                          19 20 May You Always - The McGuire Sisters 18 15 15 1600
                                          NEW 21 A Teenager In Love - Craig Douglas 24 16 1425
                                          NEW 22 Personality - Lloyd Price 26 17 1215
                                          NEW 23 Personality - Anthony Newley 22 17 1025
                                          29 24 Goodbye Jimmy Goodbye - Ruby Murray 23 600
                                          24 25 Idle On Parade (EP) - Anthony Newley 19 480
                                          26 26 Wait For Me / Willingly - Malcolm Vaughan 25 450
                                          17 27 Charlie Brown - The Coasters 27 300
                                          30 28 For A Penny - Pat Boone 19 300
                                          20 29 Margie - Fats Domino 28 225
                                          28 29 Kansas City - Little Richard 28 225
                                          25 You Made Me Love You - Nat King Cole 30 75
                                          Please Don't Touch - Johnny Kidd and The Pirates 30 75
                                          Never Be Anyone Else But You - Ricky Nelson (B) 21
                                          23 Fort Worth Jail - Lonnie Donegan
                                          27 C'mon Everybody - Eddie Cochran
                                          The Record Mirror Chart Re-Calculated, Re-Worked, Extended

                                          The Way It Was Meant To Be

                                          Comment


                                          • DISC is way out of touch with Bobby Darin's Dream Lover at 10 while the other three charts place it at 5.
                                            This is a perfect example of the averaging out process working well as the average chart position on the UAC still places it it at 5 because the weighting of the other three charts pulls it to the centre ground despite the outlier in this case DISC.
                                            The Record Mirror Chart Re-Calculated, Re-Worked, Extended

                                            The Way It Was Meant To Be

                                            Comment


                                            • What Disc did put at number 5 - Cliff Richard - also looks bizarre. Although MM have it at 8, this may also be giving it a false boost due to low sampling.

                                              Comment


                                              • Originally posted by Splodj View Post
                                                What Disc did put at number 5 - Cliff Richard - also looks bizarre. Although MM have it at 8, this may also be giving it a false boost due to low sampling.
                                                Yeah totally agree. DISC are also out of sync with Marty Wilde's Donna and Bert Weedon.
                                                The Record Mirror Chart Re-Calculated, Re-Worked, Extended

                                                The Way It Was Meant To Be

                                                Comment


                                                • As NME sometimes specify both sides of a double-A (eg Elvis) does this mean they are separating them when they don't?

                                                  Comment


                                                  • Its definitely an interesting chart this week with certain tracks being comparable on two charts each time (but not the same two for each). For instance Side Saddle is at 7 on both NME and Disc while at 12 on both MM and RM. On the other hand Marty Wilde (A Teenager In Love) is at 8 and 9 on NME and RM, while 14 and 15 on MM and Disc. Then we have Frankie Vaughan at 10 on both NME and MM and 13 on both Disc and RM - The Everly Brothers follow a similar pattern (but the other way round being much higher on the Disc/RM pairiing (11 vs 20). The smoothing out of these complex 'interactions' by the UAC again emphasizes its value..
                                                    Last edited by braindeadpj; Sun June 5, 2022, 18:42.

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