The Ultimate Averaged Chart - The BBC Chart Re-Imagined

[MrTibbs]

Its definitely an interesting chart this week with certain tracks being comparable on two charts each time (but not the same two for each). For instance Side Saddle is at 7 on both NME and Disc while at 12 on both MM and RM. On the other hand Marty Wilde (A Teenager In Love) is at 8 and 9 on NME and RM, while 14 and 15 on MM and Disc. Then we have Frankie Vaughan at 10 on both NME and MM and 13 on both Disc and RM - The Everly Brothers follow a similar pattern (but the other way round being much higher on the Disc/RM pairiing (11 vs 20). The smoothing out of these complex 'interactions' by the UAC again emphasizes its value..

I too believe the 'averaging' and smoothing out process produces a far more balanced and relevant chart for the years prior to BMRB.

In effect the UAC at this time is using a sample of around 200 stores. Not bad for 1959.

[Splodj]

By now Disc were featuring Bubbling Unders. This week's 'Ones To Watch' were the records by Ruby Murray, Billy Fury and Lloyd Price.

Similarly, Record Mirror had a Top 10 by 'British Artistes' where the bottom few were outside their general Top 20.

[Splodj]

Wikipedia says: "Despite reaching a respectable 10 position on the singles chart 'Mean Streak' would have fared better were it not having to compete in the charts with its flip side 'Never Mind' which peaked at number 21."

Actually the peaks did not coincide, but I wonder if it would have made a difference anyway. Although 'Mean Streak' did hold up better when buyers coalesced around it.

NME positions for the last 5 weeks:
Mean Streak 12/10/12/11/11
Never Mind 21/26/ - / - / -

[MrTibbs]

Greetings Pop Pickers

Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending June 20th 1959

Here are all '' the uppers, the downers, the just hanging 'arounders '

The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending June 20th 1959								NME	MM	DISC	RM	Total
Last	This		The Sound Survey					75	25	40	60	Points
Week	Week		The Top 30 Singles Chart				BBC			TOP	30	Scored
2	1	Roulette - Russ Conway					1	1	1	1	1	6000
1	2	A Fool Such As I / I Need Your Love Tonight - Elvis Presley					2	2	2	2	2	5800
5	3	Dream Lover - Bobby Darin					3	3	3	5	3	5520
3	4	It's Late / Never Be Anyone Else But You - Ricky Nelson *					4	7	4	3	6	5298
10	5	A Teenager In Love - Marty Wilde					5	4	6	7	4	5230
6	6	I've Waited So Long - Anthony Newley					7	5	7	6	5	5110
4	7	It Doesn't Matter Anymore - Buddy Holly					6	6	5	4	7	5045
8	8	Side Saddle - Russ Conway					8	8	12	8	12	4260
11	9	Guitar Boogie Shuffle - Bert Weedon					9	10	14	14	8	4060
9	10	Mean Streak / Never Mind - Cliff Richard					10	13	10	10	15	3675
7	11	I Go Ape - Neil Sedaka					11	12	11	9	17	3645
18	12	May You Always - Joan Regan					14	9	18	18	16	3395
NEW	13	Peter Gunn / Yep - Duane Eddy					12	11	8		10	3335
14	14	Three Stars - Ruby Wright					13	22	9	12	9	3305
15	15	Poor Jenny / Take A Message To Mary - The Everly Brothers					15	20	19	11	13	3005
24	16	Goodbye Jimmy Goodbye - Ruby Murray					17	16	17	15	19	2835
22	17	Personality - Lloyd Price					16	18	15		11	2575
13	18	Donna - Marty Wilde					18=	23	16	13	20	2355
21	19	A Teenager In Love - Craig Douglas					18=	14			14	2295
23	20	Personality - Anthony Newley						21		16	18	2130
12	21	Come Softly To Me - Frankie Vaughan and The Kaye Sisters					20	19	13	19		1830
16	22	Petite Fleur - Chris Barber						17		17		1610
19	23	Where Were You On Our Wedding Day - Lloyd Price						24		20		965
NEW	24	Please Don't Touch - Johnny Kidd and The Pirates						26	20			650
20	25	May You Always - The McGuire Sisters						24				525
RE	26	Venus - Dickie Valentine						28				225
29	27	Kansas City - Little Richard						29				150
29	28	Margie - Fats Domino						30				75
		Never Be Anyone Else But You - Ricky Nelson (B)						14
		Take A Message To Mary - The Everly Brothers (A)						27
17		Come Softly To Me - The Fleetwoods
25		Idle On Parade (EP) - Anthony Newley
26		Wait For Me / Willingly - Malcolm Vaughan
27		Charlie Brown - The Coasters
28		For A Penny - Pat Boone
		* This week the split side disadvantaged the averaged chart position so an average was taken from the other 3 charts and awarded to NME to give a more representative chart position.

[MrTibbs]

Hmmm, crazy as it may seem it is the paper with the least store returns that has the best balanced chart this week, Melody Maker.

All other three charts have outliers which are so far they are actually outside the ball park and across the street.
NME with Joan Regan, Disc with Bobby Darin (again) Duane Eddy and RM with Neil Sedaka, all out of sync with the others.

It must surely come down to which shops and which type of shops each sampled to get such wayward differing results to these extremes.

[brian05]

The first ever BBC Top of the Pops chart from January 1964.

[brian05]

More photos and some interesting text can be found here.

Des and Mick Online - TV & Radio - Top of the Pops


The BBC's method of producing an 'average' chart was not without its problems, not least its tendency to produce joint chart positions. This issue came to a head in August 1968, when three songs all shared number one position on the BBC chart, and thus TOTP had to feature all three. And so in February 1969, the BBC, in collaboration with the Record Retailer paper, commissioned the British Market Research Bureau to produce a weekly 'official' chart. This would now feature on both Pick and Top of the Pops. By now, the latter had switched to revealing the Top 20 records in the more familiar reverse order.

[MrTibbs]

Yes Brian that is the correct BBC chart used for the first TOTP and not the RR one that was used for the anniversary show. I was appalled when the BBC pulled that stunt hoping no one would notice. But I did.

[kingofskiffle]

They probably did it to avoid using the image above with him in it…

[MrTibbs]

They probably did it to avoid using the image above with him in it…

It was him JS who opened the anniversary show though Lonnie standing in front of the board with the RR chart replacing the original and saying something like , welcome to TOTP and this is the chart. What a travesty .

[kingofskiffle]

It was him JS who opened the anniversary show though Lonnie standing in front of the board with the RR chart replacing the original and saying something like , welcome to TOTP and this is the chart. What a travesty .

Wow, okay. I don't recall seeing the show TBH.... In that case absolutely agree!

[MrTibbs]

Wow, okay. I don't recall seeing the show TBH.... In that case absolutely agree!

I must try and find that clip although it might be deleted given that JS was present.

[Splodj]

The screengrab of the fake board on that Des and Mick website is from the Chart Brittania show, in turn copied from the anniversary show. I can't remember whether they cut Saville out of the CB clip, but there are several photos of the real board they could have used cutting him out. The board with Sandie Shaw at number one, in the other screengrab, is genuine.

Robbie posted here an article from Billboard about discussions with the BBC and BMRB planning a sales chart which preceded the infamous 3-way tie, so it was not the original cause - although could well have been a catalyst.

[MrTibbs]

Robbie posted here an article from Billboard about discussions with the BBC and BMRB planning a sales chart which preceded the infamous 3-way tie, so it was not the original cause - although could well have been a catalyst.

Yeah that fact on the three way number one initiating the BMRB chart is a commonly held misconception. It was not the case. Discussions were well underway before that, as Robbie also pointed out, to have an official national chart. Certainly the three way number one would have added further evidence that a national chart was indeed needed.

[kingofskiffle]

Yeah that fact on the three way number one initiating the BMRB chart is a commonly held misconception. It was not the case. Discussions were well underway before that, as Robbie also pointed out, to have an official national chart. Certainly the three way number one would have added further evidence that a national chart was indeed needed.

Yes, the article was printed about a month before the triple chart entry. It's a fun read and I mention it within the 1968 volume of the 70 years series.

[braindeadpj]

Interestingly, most of the chart combos I pointed out for the June 13th chart are repeated in the June 20th chart. Side Saddle's positions are tied for NME and Disc (8) and MM and RM (12), Marty Wilde (Teenager in Love) tie for NME and RM (4) and are similar for MM and Disc (6 and 7) and the Everly Brothers are again similar for NME/MM (20/19) and Disc/RM (11/13).

[braindeadpj]

BTW, on the 20th June, the last weeks positions for the two versions of Personality are switched. On the 13th June Chart, Lloyd Price was at 22 and Anthony Newley at 23.

[MrTibbs]

BTW, on the 20th June, the last weeks positions for the two versions of Personality are switched. On the 13th June Chart, Lloyd Price was at 22 and Anthony Newley at 23.

I have corrected that thanks David.

[MrTibbs]

Greetings Pop Pickers

Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending June 27th 1959

Here are all '' the uppers, the downers, the just hanging 'arounders '

The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending June 27th 1959								NME	MM	DISC	RM	Total
Last	This		The Sound Survey					75	25	40	60	Points
Week	Week		The Top 30 Singles Chart				BBC			TOP	30	Scored
1	1	Roulette - Russ Conway					1=	1	2	1	2	5915
3	2	Dream Lover - Bobby Darin					1=	2	1	2	1	5885
5	3	A Teenager In Love - Marty Wilde					3	3	3	5	3	5520
2	4	A Fool Such As I / I Need Your Love Tonight - Elvis Presley					4	4	4	4	4	5400
4	5	It's Late / Never Be Anyone Else But You - Ricky Nelson *					5	9	5	3	5	5333
6	6	I've Waited So Long - Anthony Newley					6	5	6	6	7	5015
7	7	It Doesn't Matter Anymore - Buddy Holly					7	8	7	7	9	4605
NEW	8	The Battle Of New Orleans - Lonnie Donegan					8	7	8	13	6	4595
13	9	Peter Gunn / Yep - Duane Eddy					9	10	9	12	8	4265
8	10	Side Saddle - Russ Conway					10	6	11	10	14	4235
20	11	Personality - Anthony Newley					12	11	15	15	12	3680
14	12	Three Stars - Ruby Wright					11	19	10	8	10	3605
9	13	Guitar Boogie Shuffle - Bert Weedon					14	16	16	16	13	3180
15	14	Poor Jenny / Take A Message To Mary - The Everly Brothers					13	21	17	9	11	3180
17	15	Personality - Lloyd Price					17=	12	20	19	15	3140
19	16	A Teenager In Love - Craig Douglas					15	15	12	20	16	3015
10	17	Mean Streak / Never Mind - Cliff Richard					17=	17	13	17	18	2840
16	18	Goodbye Jimmy Goodbye - Ruby Murray					19	14		11	20	2735
12	19	May You Always - Joan Regan					16	12	14		17	2690
11	20	I Go Ape - Neil Sedaka					20	20	18	14	19	2550
NEW	21	The Battle Of New Orleans - Johnny Horton						21				750
21	22	Come Softly To Me - Frankie Vaughan and The Kaye Sisters						25	19			750
22	23	Petite Fleur - Chris Barber						23				600
25	24	May You Always - The McGuire Sisters						24				525
18	25	Donna - Marty Wilde								18		520
24	26	Please Don't Touch - Johnny Kidd and The Pirates						26				375
27	27	Kansas City - Little Richard						27				300
RE	28	For A Penny - Pat Boone						28				225
NEW	28	A Teenager In Love - Dion and The Belmonts						28				225
NEW	28	Margo Don't Go - Billy Fury						28				225
		Never Be Anyone Else But You - Ricky Nelson (B)						18
23		Where Were You On Our Wedding Day - Lloyd Price
26		Venus - Dickie Valentine
28		Margie - Fats Domino
		* This week the split side disadvantaged the averaged chart position so an average was taken from the other 3 charts and awarded to NME to give a more representative chart position.

[kingofskiffle]

Lonnie enters here with a new song that was recorded and issued with a swear word in it - and then re-edited to remove it. If you listen carefully the echo is still presented the overdub can be heard. Bear Family issued a set of all his studio recordings in about 1990 or so and they isolated the backing track to demo this.

Initial lyric
we fought the ruddy British

The overdub is
we fought the bloomin' British

[Splodj]

And 'ruddy' was itself a toning down from 'bloody' in the Jimmy Driftwood original.

[MrTibbs]

Lonnie enters here with a new song that was recorded and issued with a swear word in it - and then re-edited to remove it. If you listen carefully the echo is still presented the overdub can be heard. Bear Family issued a set of all his studio recordings in about 1990 or so and they isolated the backing track to demo this.

Initial lyric
we fought the ruddy British

The overdub is
we fought the bloomin' British

I think this was Lonnie's best single for a couple of years. It went top three for weeks. Johnny Horton's US smash version will chart too but never was a threat to Lonnie over here.

[braindeadpj]

Pat Boone is actually a re-entry on the 27th June chart.
Also there are again errors in the BBC chart. Pointwise, Lloyd Price (Personality) and Ruby Murray (Goodbye Jimmy Goodbye) are actually equal 18 (not 17 for Lloyd Price).

[MrTibbs]

Pat Boone is actually a re-entry on the 27th June chart.

Corrected

[MrTibbs]

Greetings Pop Pickers

Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending July 4th 1959

Here are all '' the uppers, the downers, the just hanging 'arounders '

The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending July 4th 1959								NME	MM	DISC	RM	Total
Last	This		The Sound Survey					75	35	45	60	Points
Week	Week		The Top 30 Singles Chart				BBC			TOP	30	Scored
2	1	Dream Lover - Bobby Darin					1	1	1	1	1	6450
1	2	Roulette - Russ Conway					2	2	2	2	2	6235
8	3	The Battle Of New Orleans - Lonnie Donegan					3	4	3	3	3	5945
3	4	A Teenager In Love - Marty Wilde					4	3	4	4	4	5880
4	5	A Fool Such As I / I Need Your Love Tonight - Elvis Presley					5	5	5	5	5	5590
6	6	I've Waited So Long - Anthony Newley					6	7	7	7	6	5220
9	7	Peter Gunn / Yep - Duane Eddy					7	8	6	10	7	4985
11	8	Personality - Anthony Newley					8=	6	8	13	8	4870
5	9	It's Late / Never Be Anyone Else But You - Ricky Nelson					8=	11	9	6	9	4715
10	10	Side Saddle - Russ Conway					10	9	11	12	13	4285
15	11	Personality - Lloyd Price					13	10	13	15	12	4065
14	12	Poor Jenny / Take A Message To Mary - The Everly Brothers					12	15	14	9	11	3985
7	13	It Doesn't Matter Anymore - Buddy Holly					14	13	12	11	15	3875
12	14	Three Stars - Ruby Wright					11	20	10	8	10	3855
19	15	May You Always - Joan Regan					15	12	15	18	14	3590
18	16	Goodbye Jimmy Goodbye - Ruby Murray					16	14	17	16	18	3220
20	17	I Go Ape - Neil Sedaka					17=	17	20	14	19	2920
13	18	Guitar Boogie Shuffle - Bert Weedon					17=	18	16	20	17	2835
16	19	A Teenager In Love - Craig Douglas					19	20	19	17	16	2775
17	20	Mean Streak / Never Mind - Cliff Richard						27	18	19		1295
21	21	The Battle Of New Orleans - Johnny Horton					20	16				1125
28	22	For A Penny - Pat Boone						19				900
28	23	A Teenager In Love - Dion and The Belmonts						28			20	885
23	24	Petite Fleur - Chris Barber						23				600
25	25	Donna - Marty Wilde						25				450
24	26	May You Always - The McGuire Sisters						26				375
NEW	27	Lipstick On Your Collar - Connie Francis						28				225
27	28	Kansas City - Little Richard						30				75
		Never Be Anyone Else But You - Ricky Nelson (B)						22
		Take A Letter To Mary - The Everly Brothers (A)						24
22		Come Softly To Me - Frankie Vaughan and The Kaye Sisters
26		Please Don't Touch - Johnny Kidd and The Pirates
28		Margo Don't Go - Billy Fury