The Ultimate Averaged Chart - The BBC Chart Re-Imagined

[Splodj]

So RM again were first to identify the new number one, this time with MM, and now all agreed.

[brian05]

NEW 27 Lipstick On Your Collar - Connie Francis

A favourite of mine.

(Needless to say I would not have been caught out in that manner).

[MrTibbs]

NEW 27 Lipstick On Your Collar - Connie Francis

A favourite of mine.

(Needless to say I would not have been caught out in that manner).

It always irked me that Connie Francis did not release more singles of original songs rather than covers as she excelled when she did. Stupid Cupid and Lipstick are two examples. Instead we got cover after cover, Who's Sorry Now, I'm Sorry I Made You Cry, I'll Get By, You Always Hurt The One You Love, My Happiness, and on and on.

A great shame as this greatly reduced her credibility as a performer of original songs.

[braindeadpj]

So the store count for MM (to 35) and Disc (to 45) has been increased for the 2nd half of the year.
Again, there appears to be an error in the BBC Chart as Guitar Boogie Shuffle is at 18 pointswise and not equal 17. It looks like they instigated their no. 20 rule this time around also as Cliff is equal with Johnny Horton at 20 on points, but Johnny Horton is a new entry to the Top 20 and so 'wins' the tie...

[MrTibbs]

So the store count for MM (to 35) and Disc (to 45) has been increased for the 2nd half of the year.
Again, there appears to be an error in the BBC Chart as Guitar Boogie Shuffle is at 18 pointswise and not equal 17. It looks like they instigated their no. 20 rule this time around also as Cliff is equal with Johnny Horton at 20 on points, but Johnny Horton is a new entry to the Top 20 and so 'wins' the tie...

Yeah David it is again the gradual increase in store returns throughout the fifties to lead into the 1960 figures.

Week on week you are analysing and picking up on more and more BBC errors. It's unusual now to have a fully accurate week.

[MrTibbs]

Greetings Pop Pickers

Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending July 11th 1959

Here are all '' the uppers, the downers, the just hanging 'arounders '

The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending July 11th 1959								NME	MM	DISC	RM	Total
Last	This		The Sound Survey					75	35	45	60	Points
Week	Week		The Top 30 Singles Chart				BBC			TOP	30	Scored
1	1	Dream Lover - Bobby Darin					1	1	1	1	1	6450
3	2	The Battle Of New Orleans - Lonnie Donegan					2	3	2	2	2	6160
4	3	A Teenager In Love - Marty Wilde					3	2	3	6	3	5960
2	4	Roulette - Russ Conway					4	4	4	4	4	5805
5	5	A Fool Such As I / I Need Your Love Tonight - Elvis Presley					5	5	5	3	5	5680
7	6	Peter Gunn / Yep - Duane Eddy					6	6	6	8	7	5225
6	7	I've Waited So Long - Anthony Newley					7	8	9	10	6	4940
8	8	Personality - Anthony Newley					8	7	7	12	8	4875
9	9	It's Late / Never Be Anyone Else But You - Ricky Nelson					9	11	8	9	9	4615
12	10	Poor Jenny / Take A Message To Mary - The Everly Brothers					10	14	13	5	13	4155
11	11	Personality - Lloyd Price					12=	9	17	11	14	4060
19	12	A Teenager In Love - Craig Douglas					12=	16	11	13	11	3835
NEW	13	Living Doll - Cliff Richard					14	15	12	19	10	3665
14	14	Three Stars - Ruby Wright					11	22	10	7	12	3630
15	15	May You Always - Joan Regan					15	13	14	17	15	3535
16	16	Goodbye Jimmy Goodbye - Ruby Murray					16=	10	19	14	20	3420
10	17	Side Saddle - Russ Conway					16=	12	16	18	17	3375
27	18	Lipstick On Your Collar - Connie Francis					18	17	18	15	16	3125
13	19	It Doesn't Matter Anymore - Buddy Holly					19	18	20	16	18	2815
17	20	I Go Ape - Neil Sedaka						21		20		1245
RE	21	Please Don't Touch - Johnny Kidd and The Pirates									19	720
21	22	The Battle Of New Orleans - Johnny Horton						23				600
NEW	23	The Battle Of New Orleans - Glen Mason					20		15			560
NEW	24	I Know - Perry Como						24				525
24	25	Petite Fleur - Chris Barber						25				450
NEW	26	Lonely Boy - Paul Anka						26				375
25	27	Donna - Marty Wilde						27				300
NEW	28	Endlessly - Brook Benton						28				225
18	29	Guitar Boogie Shuffle - Bert Weedon						29				150
22	30	For A Penny - Pat Boone						30				75
		Never Be Anyone Else But You - Ricky Nelson (B)						19
		Take A Message To Mary - The Everly Brothers (A)						20
20		Mean Streak / Never Mind - Cliff Richard
23		A Teenager In Love - Dion and The Belmonts
26		May You Always - The McGuire Sisters
28		Kansas City - Little Richard

[MrTibbs]

Only Bobby's Darin's excellent Dream Lover stops Lonnie in his tracks and prevents him reaching #1 with his best for ages.
Johnny Horton and Glen Mason are there too doing battle and joining in but they were defeated early on

[Splodj]

It looks like they instigated their no. 20 rule this time around also as Cliff is equal with Johnny Horton at 20 on points, but Johnny Horton is a new entry to the Top 20 and so 'wins' the tie...

That would make sense as we are nearing the example week that accompanied the rule explanation.

[brian05]

Big entry for Cliff.

NEW 13 Living Doll - Cliff Richard

but no. 10 in RM and only no. 19 in Disc.

[MrTibbs]

Big entry for Cliff.

NEW 13 Living Doll - Cliff Richard

but no. 10 in RM and only no. 19 in Disc.

Yeah as Splodj has highlighted on a number of occasions RM is often ahead of the game at this time with the big hits and Cliff is another example.

[braindeadpj]

Week on week you are analysing and picking up on more and more BBC errors. It's unusual now to have a fully accurate week.

It makes me wonder whether similar errors in addition may have been made in the compiling of the other charts. I think the BBC may have considered it more of a 'fun exercise' (certainly initially, perhaps less so as we get further into the '60s and more 'rules' are created - though of course omitting one of the charts frequently - ironically the 'offical' one - due to deadlines does query their seriousness over it) so may not have taken a lot of care over it. The papers may have taken it more seriously.... Were checks performed on the additions for the totals in the compiling of the other charts? We would hope so as errors are easy to make.... I forget what has already been said about this. In today's age with easy access to spreadhseets, calculators etc it can be difficult for some to comprehend that they would've had to calculate it in their head, or use pen and paper or perhaps a counting machine...
In 1969 the BMRB 'computerized' it but what about before...Addition errors could explain some (but I don't think in anyway all) the discrepancies between the charts. Though it is more likely that sample size has a lot to do with the discrepancies as in general the smaller the sample the less representative of the whole it is..

[MrTibbs]

I seem to remember reading somewhere that at least MM and RR were audited at some point in the sixties but I believe it was the system used for compiling rather than the charts themselves that was audited. Also I read too an article about the 'MM girls' sitting with sacks of returns and adding machines to compile the charts.

I think it highly unlikely in the fifties or even the sixties that any double check was made on the compiled chart. This was already an onerous and time consuming task to meet print deadlines so there would be no time allocated to this.

I don't think the BBC was alone in regular errors. I think all the papers made errors too highlighted I think by an individual chart being way out of sync with the others. The shops themselves in the midst of a busy day would also likely omit or miscalculate sales affecting the return result to the papers. So lots of potential for mistakes in the chart compilation chain.

That is why averaging at least helps balance this.

[Splodj]

Yeah I'd say 'RM ahead' and 'Disc behind' have been strong characteristics for some time. And where there is a RM/NME battle MM tends to come down on the RM side - like on the Platters/Bassey fight over number one.

[MrTibbs]

Greetings Pop Pickers

Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending July 18th 1959

Here are all '' the uppers, the downers, the just hanging 'arounders '

The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending July 18th 1959								NME	MM	DISC	RM	Total
Last	This		The Sound Survey					75	35	45	60	Points
Week	Week		The Top 30 Singles Chart				BBC			TOP	30	Scored
1	1	Dream Lover - Bobby Darin					1	1	1	1	1	6450
2	2	The Battle Of New Orleans - Lonnie Donegan					2	3	2	2	2	6160
3	3	A Teenager In Love - Marty Wilde					3	2	3	3	3	6095
4	4	Roulette - Russ Conway					4=	4	5	4	5	5710
13	5	Living Doll - Cliff Richard *					4=	5	4	7	4	5595
6	6	Peter Gunn / Yep - Duane Eddy					6	6	6	8	6	5285
8	7	Personality - Anthony Newley					7	7	7	9	7	5070
7	8	I've Waited So Long - Anthony Newley					8	10	9	6	9	4790
18	9	Lipstick On Your Collar - Connie Francis					9	8	8	13	8	4720
9	10	It's Late / Never Be Anyone Else But You - Ricky Nelson					10	14	10	5	11	4380
5	11	A Fool Such As I / I Need Your Love Tonight - Elvis Presley					11	9	13	11	13	4260
16	12	Goodbye Jimmy Goodbye - Ruby Murray					14	11	16	12	16	3780
10	13	Poor Jenny / Take A Message To Mary - The Everly Brothers					13	18	12	14	10	3665
14	14	Three Stars - Ruby Wright					12	20	11	10	12	3610
11	15	Personality - Lloyd Price					16	12	17	19	15	3415
12	16	A Teenager In Love - Craig Douglas					15	16	14	16	14	3415
17	17	Side Saddle - Russ Conway					17	13	19	15	20	3150
15	18	May You Always - Joan Regan					18	15	15		18	2540
21	19	Please Don't Touch - Johnny Kidd and The Pirates					19	25	18	20	19	2120
19	20	It Doesn't Matter Anymore - Buddy Holly						21		17		1380
RE	21	A Teenager In Love - Dion and The Belmonts					20		20		17	1225
20	22	I Go Ape - Neil Sedaka						23		18		1185
24	23	I Know - Perry Como						19				900
NEW	24	Waterloo - Stonewall Jackson						24				525
26	25	Lonely Boy - Paul Anka						26				375
22	26	The Battle Of New Orleans - Johnny Horton						27				300
28	27	Endlessly - Brook Benton						28				225
30	27	For A Penny - Pat Boone						28				225
RE	27	May You Always - The McGuire Sisters						28				225
		Never Be Anyone Else But You - Ricky Nelson (B)						17
		Take A Letter To Mary - The Everly Brothers (A)						22
23		The Battle Of New Orleans - Glen Mason
25		Petite Fleur - Chris Barber
27		Donna - Marty Wilde
29		Guitar Boogie Shuffle - Bert Weedon
		* BBC chart says 4=, but the points do not support this.

[brian05]

NEW 24 Waterloo - Stonewall Jackson

The original version of Abba's 1974 hit?

[Blondini]

NEW 24 Waterloo - Stonewall Jackson

The original version of Abba's 1974 hit?

no - different song. Covers are not allowed on Eurovision.

[brian05]

I prefer the Abba song - much better!!

[MrTibbs]

Greetings Pop Pickers

Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending July 25th 1959

Here are all '' the uppers, the downers, the just hanging 'arounders '

The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending July 25th 1959								NME	MM	DISC	RM	Total
Last	This		The Sound Survey					75	35	45	60	Points
Week	Week		The Top 30 Singles Chart				BBC			TOP	30	Scored
1	1	Dream Lover - Bobby Darin					1	1	1	1	1	6450
2	2	The Battle Of New Orleans - Lonnie Donegan					2	2	2	2	2	6235
5	3	Living Doll - Cliff Richard					3	3	3	3	3	6020
3	4	A Teenager In Love - Marty Wilde					4	4	4	4	4	5805
NEW	5	A Big Hunk O' Love - Elvis Presley					5	5	5	9	5	5410
4	6	Roulette - Russ Conway					6	6	7	5	6	5385
6	7	Peter Gunn / Yep - Duane Eddy *					7	8	6	6	8	5210
9	8	Lipstick On Your Collar - Connie Francis					8	7	8	7	7	5125
7	9	Personality - Anthony Newley					9	9	9	11	9	4640
10	10	It's Late / Never Be Anyone Else But You - Ricky Nelson					10	12	10	8	10	4455
12	11	Goodbye Jimmy Goodbye - Ruby Murray					11	11	11	10	13	4225
11	12	A Fool Such AS I / I Need Your Love Tonight - Elvis Presley					12=	13	14	13	14	3775
13	13	Poor Jenny / Take A Message To Mary - The Everly Brothers					12=	19	12	12	11	3620
15	14	Personality - Lloyd Price					15=	10	16	19	17	3480
8	15	I've Waited So Long - Anthony Newley					15=	14	18	14	16	3395
16	16	A Teenager In Love - Craig Douglas					17	16	15	18	15	3230
14	17	Three Stars - Ruby Wright					14	22	13	15	12	3165
17	18	Side Saddle - Russ Conway					18	15	19	17	19	2970
18	19	May You Always - Joan Regan					19	18	17	16	20	2800
NEW	20	The Heart Of A Man - Frankie Vaughan						20			18	1605
23	21	I Know - Perry Como					20	16				1125
19	22	Please Don't Touch - Johnny Kidd and The Pirates						27		20		795
25	23	Lonely Boy - Paul Anka						27	20			685
NEW	24	Why Should I Be Lonely - Tony Brent						24				525
24	25	Waterloo - Stonewall Jackson						25				450
NEW	26	La Plume De Ma Tante - Hugo and Luigi						29				150
27	27	For A Penny - Pat Boone						30				75
NEW	27	Ragtime Cowboy Joe - The Chipmunks						30				75
		Yep - Duane Eddy (B)						20
		Never Be Anyone Else But You - Ricky Nelson (B)						23
		Take A Letter To Mary - The Everly Brothers (A)						26
20		It Doesn't Matter Anymore - Buddy Holly
21		A Teenager In Love - Dion and The Belmonts
22		I Go Ape - Neil Sedaka
26		The Battle Of New Orleans - Johhny Horton
27		Endlessly - Brook Benton
27		May You Always - The McGuire Sisters
		* This week the split side disadvantaged the averaged chart position so an average was taken from the other 3 charts and awarded to NME to give a more representative chart position.

[Robbie]

The top 4 are the same in all charts. Disc is once again behind the curve, this time with Elvis. 'A Big Hunk O' Love' would be Elvis' last chart entry of the 1950s. It also seemed to mark the end of Rockin' Elvis, he would return in 1960 with what I would describe as a more mature sound and one which wasn't quite as good.

[MrTibbs]

The top 4 are the same in all charts. Disc is once again behind the curve, this time with Elvis. 'A Big Hunk O' Love' would be Elvis' last chart entry of the 1950s. It also seemed to mark the end of Rockin' Elvis, he would return in 1960 with what I would describe as a more mature sound and one which wasn't quite as good.

Yeah enjoy that brief moment of unity from the four papers at the top end of the chart it's as rare as Haley's comet.

Below that yeah Disc wander off the beaten path again especially with Elvis. I think the army years totally changed the direction of his music.

[RW2009]

The screengrab of the fake board on that Des and Mick website is from the Chart Brittania show, in turn copied from the anniversary show. I can't remember whether they cut Saville out of the CB clip, but there are several photos of the real board they could have used cutting him out. The board with Sandie Shaw at number one, in the other screengrab, is genuine.

Robbie posted here an article from Billboard about discussions with the BBC and BMRB planning a sales chart which preceded the infamous 3-way tie, so it was not the original cause - although could well have been a catalyst.

I'm the owner of the Des and Mick website, and I admit I wasn't aware that the first image, taken, as you say, from the BBC Four documentary, wasn't the genuine article, nor that the plans for the BMRB chart were already in the works before the three-way tie, so I'll make some amendments to text to make those clear. Thanks for pointing those out.

[kingofskiffle]

I'm the owner of the Des and Mick website, and I admit I wasn't aware that the first image, taken, as you say, from the BBC Four documentary, wasn't the genuine article, nor that the plans for the BMRB chart were already in the works before the three-way tie, so I'll make some amendments to text to make those clear. Thanks for pointing those out.

BMRB seem to have been asked to investigate supposed album chart anomalies in 1966 (according to their internal magazine). The Sunday Times apparently ran an article that an LP was not in the chart despite high sales and this meant the charts were wrong. So after that investigation BMRB called a meeting - probably 1967 - and then it went from there.

I can not remember were I got this from - so apologies if somebody on here sent me the info!
https://www.dropbox.com/s/jq638n66uq...12393.pdf?dl=0
But the above is the article to which I refer.

[Robbie]

^
the BMRB article came from me! Or more specifically, I found the article a year or two ago while doing a google search for something (I forget what) connected with BMRB. I think I might have shared the link to it in this thread.

[kingofskiffle]

^ My memory is terrible! Huge thanks Robbie and sorry for being forgetful.

[Splodj]

On the subject of TOTP, in 1968 Allan Crawford discovered to his amazement that the BBC had not copyrighted the show's title and he started to put out those 'Top Of The Pops' albums. Judging by the speed at which these were offloaded to charity shops I imagine many buyers were disappointed to find tracks by cover artists!

Allan had been responsible for the first Top 20 show in the UK in 1964 presented by Tony Withers (later Windsor). His offshore station, Radio Atlanta, is little remembered now because Radio Caroline narrowly beat his and came on air first.