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The Ultimate Averaged Chart - The BBC Chart Re-Imagined

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  • Graham76man
    replied
    Who would have thought that The Who - Substitute was hyped into the chart!
    It was selling for the last two weeks, but it only went up from 73 to 30 on the 19 March chart. Those highs of 18 can only be explained by chart fiddling.

    Leave a comment:


  • MrTibbs
    replied
    Greetings Pop Pickers !

    Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending 19th March 1966, for your perusal.

    The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending March 19th 1966 NME MM DISC RR Total
    Last This The Sound Survey Stores 200 250 100 85 Points
    Week Week The Top 30 Singles Chart BBC TOP 30 Scored
    8 1 The Sun Ain't Gonna Shine Anymore - The Walker Brothers 1 1 1 1 1 19050
    2 2 I Can't Let Go - The Hollies 2 1 2 2 2 18615
    1 3 Sha-La-La-La-Lee - The Small Faces 3 3 3 3 3 17780
    5 4 Barbara Ann - The Beach Boys 4 4 7 4 5 16310
    6 5 Backstage - Gene Pitney 5 7 5 5 7 15940
    9 6 Make The World Go Away - Eddy Arnold 7 6 6 6 10 15535
    4 7 These Boots Are Made For Walkin' - Nancy Sinatra 8 9 4 7 9 15420
    13 8 Shapes Of Things - The Yardbirds 6 5 8 8 6 15375
    3 9 A Groovy Kind Of Love - The Mindbenders 9 8 9 9 4 14595
    15 10 Dedicated Follower Of Fashion - The Kinks 10 10 10 10 8 13505
    12 11 Lightning Strikes - Lou Christie 11 11 11 13 11 12500
    10 12 My Love - Petula Clark 12 12 12 11 14 11995
    7 13 19th Nervous Breakdown - The Rolling Stones 13 13 13 12 12 11615
    11 14 Inside Looking Out - The Animals 14 16 14 15 17 10040
    14 15 Spanish Flea - Herb Alpert 15 17 16 19 13 9280
    NEW 16 Elusive Butterfly - Bob Lind 17 14 17 16 21 9250
    19 17 What Now My Love - Sonny and Cher 18 20 15 18 15 8860
    23 18 Substitute - The Who 16 15 20 14 18 8755
    22 19 Hold Tight - Dave Dee, Dozy, Beaky, Mick and Tich 19 22 18 17 23 7130
    18 20 Blue River - Elvis Presley 20 21 19 20 26 6525
    16 21 You Were On My Mind - Crispian St Peters 21= 24 21 24 20 5535
    27 22 Woman - Peter and Gordon 23 23 22 22 28 5005
    17 23 This Golden Ring - The Fortunes 21= 26 24 23 16 4825
    NEW 24 May Each Day - Andy Williams 24 25 26 26 19 3970
    NEW 25 Elusive Butterfly - Val Doonican 27 19 27 27 3800
    29 26 I Got You (I Feel Good) - James Brown 25 18 21 29 3770
    20 27 Uptight - Stevie Wonder 26 23 24 2595
    26 28 You Don't Love Me - Gary Walker 28 29 25 27 2240
    NEW 29 Sound Of Silence/Love Me With All Of Your Heart - The Bachelors* 28 29 28 1400
    21 30 Tomorrow - Sandie Shaw 29 28 30 25 1360
    * Split Sides On NME but not affecting average chart position
    Love Me With All Of Your Heart - The Bachelors* 27
    Second Hand Rose - Barbra Streisand 30 22 765
    I Met A Girl - The Shadows 30 30 29 650
    Please Stay - The Cryin' Shames 25 600
    A Man Without Love - Kenneth McKellar 30 85
    Last edited by MrTibbs; Sun August 30, 2020, 21:21.

    Leave a comment:


  • MrTibbs
    replied
    Dave Taylor told me RR made a 'mistake' this week and mixed up the returns for Nancy Sinatra and The Small Faces the outcome of which was the above false chart positions for both so yeah it wouldn't at all surprise me if there was a mix up with Herb and Eddy too as their positions are both unexpected in comparison to the trend of the other charts.

    Leave a comment:


  • BobPatience
    replied
    RR keeps on surprising me. The small faces went 4 -> 1 or 2 in all charts except for RR, where they even manage to LOSE a spot. And are we sure RR did not somehow switch the Herb Alpert and Eddy Arnold records? If it wasn't considered 'official' these rankings would be pure comedy gold.

    Leave a comment:


  • Splodj
    replied
    It is indeed a shame that virtually all publications now say that it only reached number 3 and that 'Boots' had a ridiculously long time at the top.

    Incidentally there are hyphens in the title: 'Sha-La-La-La-Lee'.

    Leave a comment:


  • camdwntownjohn
    replied
    I don't know whether you've already started to highlight this anywhere, but it would be interesting to list for each year, which records should be recognised as chart-toppers, but which in all published lists and articles, are denied that privilege. The above Small Faces track being an example.

    Leave a comment:


  • MrTibbs
    replied
    I agree wholeheartedly with that Robin. It was the BBC chart I followed too in the sixties via TOTP and POTP.

    At the time of course we didn't recognise the flaws and mistakes , only now with hindsight and inside knowledge into the workings of the charts can we see it. That is why it frustrates me. As I said above its principle was absolutely sound, taking all the charts and averaging them ironed out extremes to deliver a more balanced chart. But it was it's haphazard and casual approach to compilation that was its main weakness.

    That is why I am glad in the majority of positions my Ultimate Average Chart agrees with the BBC, but by factoring in the store return percentages takes it a stage further where inaccuracies, inconsistencies, and ties are ironed out resulting in the chart of charts that I believe truly reflects the times better than any individual chart does. By recalculating all these weekly charts also fixes all the errors the original BBC chart made in all its calculations at the time.

    Thanks for those percentage calculations you added above, they make for interesting reading and highlight interesting differences between the individual charts.

    So, it would appear the Ultimate Averaged Chart is hitting all the right notes (pardon the pun) and delivering the goods for you all.

    So, on ward and upward Pop Pickers, here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending 12th March 1966, for your enjoyment.

    The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending March 12th 1966 NME MM DISC RR Total
    Last This The Sound Survey Stores 200 250 100 85 Points
    Week Week The Top 30 Singles Chart BBC TOP 30 Scored
    4 1 Sha La La La Lee - The Small Faces 1 2 1 1 6 18425
    10 2 I Can't Let Go - The Hollies 3 1 3 3 7 17840
    3 3 A Groovy Kind Of Love - The Mindbenders 2 3 4 2 2 17715
    2 4 These Boots Are Made For Walkin' - Nancy Sinatra 4 7 2 5 1 17200
    6 5 Barbara Ann - The Beach Boys 5 4 7 4 3 16480
    7 6 Backstage - Gene Pitney 6 6 6 6 4 16045
    1 7 19th Nervous Breakdown - The Rolling Stones 7 8 5 7 8 15455
    18 8 The Sun Ain't Gonna Shine Anymore - The Walker Brothers 8 5 9 8 10 14785
    9 9 Make The World Go Away - Eddy Arnold 10 9 8 9 16 13625
    5 10 My Love - Petula Clark 9 10 10 10 9 13420
    8 11 Inside Looking Out - The Animals 11 13 11 12 12 12115
    14 12 Lightning Strikes - Lou Christie 12 12 12 13 14 11795
    24 13 Shapes Of Things - The Yardbirds 13 11 13 11 17 11690
    12 14 Spanish Flea - Herb Alpert 14 16 15 17 5 10610
    NEW 15 Dedicated Follower Of Fashion - The Kinks 15 14 14 14 20 10285
    11 16 You Were On My Mind - Crispian St Peters 16 15 19 15 13 9330
    20 17 This Golden Ring - The Fortunes 17 17 17 18 15 8960
    21 18 Blue River - Elvis Presley 18 19 16 16 22 8415
    19 19 What Now My Love - Sonny and Cher 19 17 20 20 19 7670
    15 20 Uptight - Stevie Wonder 20 21 18 19 18 7555
    13 21 Tomorrow - Sandie Shaw 21 24 22 22 11 6250
    NEW 22 Hold Tight - Dave Dee, Dozy, Beaky, Mick and Tich 23 22 21 23 5100
    NEW 23 Substitute - The Who 24 19 24 24 4850
    16 24 Mirror Mirror - Pinkerton's Assorted Colours 22 23 25 25 23 4380
    17 25 Love's Just A Broken Heart - Cilla Black 26= 30 26 28 24 2345
    NEW 26 You Don't Love Me - Gary Walker 25 25 30 27 26 2275
    NEW 27 Woman - Peter and Gordon 29= 23 29 2170
    22 28 Little By Little - Dusty Springfield 28 29 27 26 28 2155
    NEW 29 I Got You (I Feel Good) - James Brown 26= 26 21 2000
    NEW 30 Baby Never Say Goodbye - Unit 4 + 2 28 28 1350
    Jenny Take A Ride - Mitch Ryder and The Detroit Wheels 27 29 1000
    Second Hand Rose - Barbra Streisand 29= 21 850
    May Each Day - Andy Williams 29 30 600
    Girl - St Louis Union 25 510
    Get Out Of My Life Woman - Lee Dorsey 27 340
    You've Come Back - P J Proby 30 85

    Leave a comment:


  • RokinRobinOfLocksley
    replied
    Brian, even though the BBC chart wasn't perfect, even with its flaws and mistakes, one could argue it still appears to have been the most representative chart of the 60s, prior to your new Ultimate Chart. I wouldn't be too harsh on it, especially compared to the other charts, ha.

    But let's look at the numbers, per your 5 March 1966 chart above. Comparing the chart position differences against your Ultimate Chart positions:

    --the BBC is only off by a total of 5 chart position points
    --NME is off by 71
    --MM by 43
    --Disc by 45
    --RR by 99

    Comparing the BBC against the other charts:

    --NME is off by 73 chart position points
    --MM by 44
    --Disc by 46
    --RR by 94

    In light of this, I'd say the BBC chart is very, very good, not perfect, and not as good as your Ultimate Chart. I am glad to see this, as I had considered the BBC chart to have been my personal chart all these years, ha. Actually, the only one I knew of in the 60s.

    Into the percentages. For this week, the BBC gave 25% equal weighting to each NME, MM, Disc, RR. The Ultimate Chart gives them:
    --NME 31.50%
    --MM 39.37%
    --Disc 15.75%
    --RR 13.39%

    So even with those weighting differences (NME 6.50%, MM 14.37%, Disc 9.25%, RR 11.61%) the BBC chart is still very, very close to the Ultimate Chart positions.

    Which also goes to show that while the best results would be obtained for the Ultimate Chart with exact numbers of record dealers each week, highly approximate numbers (per Alan Smith) can be most meaningful, and might not make any difference.

    Keep on rockin' !!
    Last edited by RokinRobinOfLocksley; Sat August 29, 2020, 14:47.

    Leave a comment:


  • MrTibbs
    replied
    I fully agree with lots of what you say there Splodj . I concur with your point on the store samples, they could have been the same as the ones I use based on Alan Smith's investigations and he certainly put a lot of investigative work into obtaining these figures, or they could have indeed been larger or smaller BUT I believe the proportions between each are accurate enough irregardless so yes the proportionate outcome would remain the same as to what I compile in the Ultimate Averaged Chart.

    We both share the same view on the BBC chart, the principle was sound but the methodology was awful, inconsistent, and ill thought through. I can't believe the BBC thought this shabbily compiled chart represented a true average and presented it on TOTP, and POTP.

    I do believe though that at the time the proportions of store submits to the music papers could have been easily and accurately ascertained ( information truly lost in the mists of time now ) and contributed to the compilation along the same lines as I am doing to give a much more robust and representative chart for the BBC to use.

    I'm glad too Splodj that you continue to enjoy seeing the chart compiled the way the BBC should have done


    So on that subject, Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending 5th March 1966, for your enjoyment.
    The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending March 5th 1966 NME MM DISC RR Total
    Last This The Sound Survey Stores 200 250 100 85 Points
    Week Week The Top 30 Singles Chart BBC TOP 30 Scored
    1 1 19th Nervous Breakdown - The Rolling Stones 1 1 1 1 2 18965
    2 2 These Boots Are Made For Walkin' - Nancy Sinatra 2 2 2 2 1 18500
    3 3 A Groovy Kind Of Love - The Mindbenders 3 3 3 3 3 17780
    6 4 Sha La La La Lee - The Small Faces 4 4 4 4 5 17060
    4 5 My Love - Petula Clark 5 6 5 6 4 16295
    8 6 Barbara Ann - The Beach Boys 6 5 6 5 6 16175
    15 7 Backstage - Gene Pitney 7 8 7 7 7 15040
    10 8 Inside Looking Out - The Animals 8 7 8 8 12 14465
    19 9 Make The World Go Away - Eddy Arnold 9 11 9 10 10 13385
    NEW 10 I Can't Let Go - The Hollies 11 10 10 9 18 12755
    5 11 You Were On My Mind - Chrispian St Peters 10 12 11 11 9 12670
    7 12 Spanish Flea - Herb Alpert 12 13 12 15 8 11905
    11 13 Tomorrow - Sandie Shaw 13 19 13 13 11 10400
    24 14 Lightning Strikes - Lou Christie 14 9 20 12 16 10325
    14 15 Uptight - Stevie Wonder 15 18 14 14 14 9995
    13 16 Mirror Mirror - Pinkerton's Assorted Colours 17 17 16 19 17 8940
    9 17 Love's Just A Broken Heart - Cilla Black 16 21 15 17 13 8930
    NEW 18 The Sun Ain't Gonna Shine Anymore - The Walker Brothers 18 16 18 18 26 7975
    28 19 What Now My Love - Sonny and Cher 19 14 23 23 22 6965
    23 20 This Golden Ring - The Fortunes 20 15 22 16 6950
    30 21 Blue River - Elvis Presley 21 22 21 22 23 5880
    16 22 Little By Little - Dusty Springfield 22 25 19 24 20 5835
    12 23 Michelle - The Overlanders 23 28 17 26 19 5620
    NEW 24 Shapes Of Things - The Yardbirds 24 19 29 21 28 4155
    27 25 Jenny Take A Ride - Mitch Ryder and The Detroit Wheels 25= 22 28 20 3650
    22 26 Get Out Of My Life Woman - Lee Dorsey 25= 27 25 25 24 3495
    20 27 Girl - The St Louis Union 27 26 15 2610
    17 28 Second Hand Rose - Barbra Streisand 28 24 21 2600
    18 29 Girl - The Truth 29 24 30 29 1670
    21 30 You've Come Back - P J Proby 30 27 25 1510
    Dedicated Follower Of Fashion - The Kinks 25 29 1400
    You Don't Love Me - Gary Walker 29 28 30 785
    I Got You (I Feel Good) - James Brown 30 27 600
    Like A Baby - Len Barry 27 340
    Woman - Peter and Gordon 30 250
    Baby Never Say Goodbye - Unit 4 + 2 30 200
    Last edited by MrTibbs; Fri August 28, 2020, 16:42.

    Leave a comment:


  • Splodj
    replied
    I tend to agree with Graham (post 341) that the actual samples used by the chart companies were a lot less than they declared at the time, or claimed later to Alan Smith. This does not necessarily invalidate the methodology used in the Ultimate charts as the relative ratios may still be roughly correct.

    However if weighting had been applied, either at the time or retrospectively, it would have led to endless arguments about how valid or accurate it was. The BBC in particular could not antagonise their contributors.

    I think that it is a pity the BBC did not:

    (a) take more care with the accuracy of their calculations;
    (b) adopt a consistent tiebreaker policy (survey size would play a part here, but in a less controversial way than weighting);
    (c) apply the same maverick avoidance policy to Double 'A' Sides as they did to EPs;
    (d) ignore positions in one contributory chart that were 4 or more places adrift from the others. (Effectively this would replace their odd-one-out 'number one' policy by extending it to the whole chart.)

    Had they done these things they would have provided a ready-made chart that I could have accepted as 'official'.

    Please Brian do not interpret this as criticism of your excellent work on the Ultimate Charts - it is certainly not intended to be.
    Last edited by Splodj; Fri August 28, 2020, 12:54.

    Leave a comment:


  • MrTibbs
    replied
    Guys lots of interesting comments there. I'm just in from work and belatedly catching up with your valid points. RR I honestly believe is the proverbial fly in the ointment. Their chart actually detracts rather than adds to the value of an averaged chart. Week on week it is out of step and the chart of February 19th is the best example yet.
    I'm with you guys in that I can't fathom why it was selected retrospectively as 'official'. Surely more was considered than the chart which had most positions.
    For me, and this is purely a personal view, one of two options should have been adopted. Either use the MM chart which had the biggest sample and was already the chart published in the biggest selling daily newspapers giving it huge exposure consistently. It also sampled Northern Ireland, no other did. Or secondly do what I am doing, compile an average chart and factor in stores thus getting a store sample in total of over 600. This solution would then not have disadvantaged any individual chart so no losing face.
    So the system I am using ( which is the same as I promoted above) is perhaps the best overall.

    I don't take full credit for this as most of you also provided input, suggestions, improvements which I took on board in order to provide us with the best chart possible. Thanks again to you all for your continuing feedback and support you provide to me and please continue to follow and enjoy 'our chart'.

    Meantime :

    Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending 26th February 1966.

    The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending February 26th 1966 NME MM DISC RR Total
    Last This The Sound Survey Stores 200 250 100 85 Points
    Week Week The Top 30 Singles Chart BBC TOP 30 Scored
    1 1 19th Nervous Breakdown - The Rolling Stones 1 1 1 1 2 18965
    2 2 These Boots Are Made For Walkin' - Nancy Sinatra 2 2 2 2 1 18500
    4 3 A Groovy Kind Of Love - The Mindbenders 3 3 4 3 3 17530
    8 4 My Love - Petula Clark 4 4 3 4 5 17310
    3 5 You Were On My Mind - Crispian St Peters 5 5 5 5 4 16595
    13 6 Sha La La La Lee - The Small Faces 6 6 7 6 7 15540
    7 7 Spanish Flea - Herb Alpert 8 10 6 14 6 14275
    19 8 Barbara Ann - The Beach Boys 7 8 11 7 8 13955
    6 9 Love's Just A Broken Heart - Cilla Black 9 9 10 9 10 13635
    17 10 Inside Looking Out - The Animals 10 6 12 8 13 13580
    10 11 Tomorrow - Sandie Shaw 11 14 9 12 9 12670
    5 12 Michelle - The Overlanders 12 15 8 11 11 12650
    9 13 Mirror Mirror - Pinkerton's Assorted Colours 13 12 13 10 12 12015
    18 14 Uptight - Stevie Wonder 15 13 15 13 18 10505
    30 15 Backstage - Gene Pitney 14 11 17 15 15 10460
    12 16 Little By Little - Dusty Springfield 16 19 14 16 17 9340
    11 17 Second Hand Rose - Barbra Streisand 17 20 16 17 14 8795
    20 18 Girl - The Truth 19 16 18 18 27 7890
    23 19 Make The World Go Away - Eddy Arnold 18 18 20 19 21 7400
    16 20 Girl - The St Louis Union 20 19 21 16 5275
    28 21 You've Come Back - P J Proby 25 22 23 22 25 5210
    26 22 Get Out Of My Life Woman - Lee Dorsey 21 22 25 24 22 4765
    29 23 This Golden Ring - The Fortunes 22 20 24 23 4750
    NEW 24 Lightning Strikes - Lou Christie 23 17 20 3900
    15 25 Like A Baby - Len Barry 21 29 19 3720
    14 26 Keep On Running - The Spencer Davis Group 23 22 26 20 3685
    NEW 27 Jenny Take A Ride - Mitch Ryder and The Detroit Wheels 27 24 30 25 2250
    NEW 28 What Now My Love - Sonny and Cher 29 26 27 30 30 2185
    22 29 Have Pity On The Boy - Paul and Barry Ryan 26 26 28 24 2145
    NEW 30 Blue River - Elvis Presley 28 25 29 27 2100
    My Girl - Otis Redding 30 28 23 1430
    You Don't Love Me - Gary Walker 27 800
    I Got You (I Feel Good) - James Brown 28 600
    A Must To Avoid - Herman's Hermits 26 425
    I Can't Let Go - The Hollies 29 400
    Breaking Up Is Breaking My Heart - Roy Orbison 28 255
    634-5789 - Wilson Pickett 30 200
    Tchaikovsky One - The Second City Sound 29 170

    Leave a comment:


  • Graham76man
    commented on 's reply
    Nevertheless NME did expand the chart pass 30. As it featured in the early Number One Magazines.

  • Graham76man
    replied
    Originally posted by Splodj View Post
    But why is it important to have a Top 50, rather than a Top 30, for the 50s and 60s?

    I realise there were a lot of good records that peaked in the 31-50 range from the mid-60s on, but before then there were a lot of forgettable entries which I wouldn't consider worthy 'hits' using the sales or quality (admittedly subjective) criteria.

    More to the point, the lower end of RRs chart was so unreliable that it was almost a lottery what made it into that range and what was left out.



    The answer to that question is simple. When the first Guinness Book was done the chart had been a top 50 for ages. So to cut down the chart to a 30 would have looked odd and created problems with things like chart facts. These were important, as the books were published by Guinness, who did the Guinness Book of Records, so popular that they made a TV show about it. So things like weeks on charts and who spent only one week at 50 and nothing else, fitted in with the Guinness range of fact based books. Several books had been out before using either a top 20 or top 30. But there was public demand for the compilers to get the fullest charts and to record all the information from the full top 50 charts. The compilers of the first book make it clear that only the RR chart was a full top 50. And when the first book came out the 70's were not complete and the 60's top 50's would have added a great deal of facts and data to add to the first book.

    Leave a comment:


  • camdwntownjohn
    replied
    In 1978, the NME stated that they had never increased their chart above a Top 30 because it would be too easy to chart-hype, i.e. record companies buying records from chart-return shops. One difference with the NME chart, certainly in the mid-70s, was that they didn't use actual sales figures, but phoned each shop and asked them to give their own ranked best-sellers list, from which the paper compiled a chart on a points basis. This was revealed by the NME editor in a BBC Radio London phone-in with Charlie Gillett around 1975 or 1976.

    Leave a comment:


  • RokinRobinOfLocksley
    replied
    Another solution would be to use the chart with the most store samples for the top positions, then add extra records from the next most sampled chart, then the next, then the next. For the 60s, the MM Top 50 would be used for what, 5+ years? Then as a Top 30 when it shrank. Then append to that the extra records from NME, then Disc, and lastly RR. Thus you have the most accurate charts at the top, and you have the most records. It's too logical...

    Or you can do the Brian method for the Top 50+...

    Leave a comment:


  • Splodj
    replied
    But why is it important to have a Top 50, rather than a Top 30, for the 50s and 60s?

    I realise there were a lot of good records that peaked in the 31-50 range from the mid-60s on, but before then there were a lot of forgettable entries which I wouldn't consider worthy 'hits' using the sales or quality (admittedly subjective) criteria.

    More to the point, the lower end of RRs chart was so unreliable that it was almost a lottery what made it into that range and what was left out.




    Leave a comment:


  • Graham76man
    replied
    However whilst doing the Real Charts for 1967 Record Retailer's positions improve. The odd one out is Melody Maker's chart, very slow compared to NME and RR and to me less on the ball then it was in 1965 and 1966.
    I think however that if Melody Maker hadn't reduced it's chart to just a 30 in 1967 then it might have got Official status. I think the original compilers of the Guinness Book would have gone with that chart, knowing how bad RR was and how it was not really the chart of the 60's. But the fact it was chopped down at times meant there would have been far less hits in the chart book. They could have used all the charts, but the book would have been much bigger and probably very confusing to readers. They only way would be to colour code it, or split the results into several sections for each of the charts. The colour coding would have made the book more expensive though, the sections would have caused disputes with chart fans, plus after 1969 would all the other charts stop being used?
    In the end I think what decided the outcome was that RR was a top 50 and more importantly became the same paper that carried the new BMRB chart.
    What would have been more interesting to have seen is the NME going to a top 50 in 1960. That would have caused a big dilemma in 1969, wouldn't it, with the compilers of the first Guinness book!

    Leave a comment:


  • RokinRobinOfLocksley
    replied
    Brian, as the weeks go by, you're piling up more and more evidence that RR has no business being the OCC 'official' chart of the 60s. And there's much more evidence to come. Rock on !!!

    Edit: and RR is odd man out on the above chart for 21 of the 30 positions, crazy...
    Last edited by RokinRobinOfLocksley; Thu August 27, 2020, 02:07.

    Leave a comment:


  • Graham76man
    replied
    Just checked the Real Chart for the above week and those RR records in the top 30 and not in other charts, are not even top 40 on the Real Chart. The best is 45 for Bob Dylan. The Kinks was at 82!

    Missing from the top 30 however are The Walker Brothers - Sun Aint... (18) Al Martino - Spanish Eyes (16) Miracles - Going To A Go-Go (27) And Andy Williams - May Each Day (25)

    Leave a comment:


  • MrTibbs
    replied
    Greetings Pop Pickers !

    This is the chart I mentioned a short time back. Look at RR, as well as denying The Rolling Stones the No 1 slot, their chart has 9 records in the top thirty that don't appear in any other of the three charts !!!

    Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending 19th February 1966.

    The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending February 19th 1966 NME MM DISC RR Total
    Last This The Sound Survey Stores 200 250 100 85 Points
    Week Week The Top 30 Singles Chart BBC TOP 30 Scored
    4 1 19th Nervous Breakdown - The Rolling Stones 1 1 1 1 2 18965
    1 2 These Boots Are Made For Walkin' - Nancy Sinatra 2 2 2 2 1 18500
    2 3 You Were On My Mind - Crispian St Peters 3 3 4 3 3 17530
    6 4 A Groovy Kind Of Love - The Mindbenders 4 4 3 4 6 17225
    3 5 Michelle - The Overlanders 5 7 5 5 5 16110
    5 6 Love's Just A Broken Heart - Cilla Black 6 6 6 6 7 15790
    7 7 Spanish Flea - Herb Alpert 7 9 7 9 4 14895
    19 8 My Love - Petula Clark 8 5 8 7 15 14710
    9 9 Mirror Mirror - Pinkerton's Assorted Colours 9 8 9 8 10 14185
    11 10 Tomorrow - Sandie Shaw 10 10 10 10 9 13420
    13 11 Second Hand Rose - Barbra Streisand 11 14 13 14 14 11045
    15 12 Little By Little - Dusty Springfield 13= 17 11 12 17 10890
    25 13 Sha La La La Lee - The Small Faces 13= 12 16 11 18 10655
    8 14 Keep On Running - The Spencer Davis Group 12 16 15 16 8 10455
    10 15 Like A Baby - Len Barry 15 22 12 17 13 9480
    16 16 Girl - The St Louis Union 16 20 14 19 12 9265
    NEW 17 Inside Looking Out - The Animals 18 11 17 15 9100
    22 18 Uptight - Stevie Wonder 17 13 18 13 26 9075
    NEW 19 Barbara Ann - The Beach Boys 19 15 21 18 7000
    21 20 Girl - The Truth 20 18 19 21 6600
    24 21 Think - Chris Farlowe 23 19 22 25 5250
    18 22 Have Pity On The Boy - Paul and Barry Ryan 21 30 20 20 19 5070
    NEW 23 Make The World Go Away - Eddy Arnold 25 24 23 22 4300
    12 24 A Must To Avoid - Herman's Hermits 22 30 24 11 3650
    14 25 My Girl - Otis Redding 24 28 25 29 16 3575
    28 26 Get Out Of My Life Woman - Lee Dorsey 26 23 27 23 29 3570
    29 27 The Hard Way - The Nashville Teens 29 24 26 27 3050
    NEW 28 You've Come Back - P J Proby 27 21 30 24 2950
    NEW 29 This Golden Ring - The Fortunes 28 24 29 26 2400
    NEW 30 Backstage - Gene Pitney 27 28 1100
    Don't Make Me Over - The Swinging Blue Jeans 30 28 30 1050
    Michelle - David and Jonathan 30 20 935
    Let's Hang On - The Four Seasons 21 850
    Breaking Up Is Breaking My Heart - Roy Orbison 22 765
    Take Me To Your Heart Again - Vince Hill 23 680
    Tchaikovsky One - The Second City Sound 24 595
    Can You Please Crawl Out Your Window - Bob Dylan 25 510
    Jenny Take A Ride - Mitch Ryder and The Detroit Wheels 29 400
    Day Tripper / We Can Work It Out - The Beatles 27 340
    Till The End Of The Day - The Kinks 28 255
    Wind Me Up - Cliff Richard 30 85



    Leave a comment:


  • MrTibbs
    replied
    Thanks for the like Robbie. Appreciated.

    Leave a comment:


  • MrTibbs
    replied
    Greetings Pop Pickers !

    Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending 12th February 1966.

    The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending February 12th 1966 NME MM DISC RR Total
    Last This The Sound Survey Stores 200 250 100 85 Points
    Week Week The Top 30 Singles Chart BBC TOP 30 Scored
    7 1 These Boots Are Made For Walkin' - Nancy Sinatra 1 1 1 1 4 18795
    5 2 You Were On My Mind - Crispian St Peters 2 3 2 2 2 18215
    1 3 Michelle - The Overlanders 3 4 3 3 1 17750
    NEW 4 19th Nervous Breakdown - The Rolling Stones 6 2 4 4 14 16695
    2 5 Love's Just A Broken Heart - Cilla Black 4 5 5 5 5 16510
    8 6 A Groovy Kind Of Love - The Mindbenders 7 6 6 7 7 15690
    4 7 Spanish Flea - Herb Alpert 5 7 7 6 3 15680
    3 8 Keep On Running - The Spencer Davis Group 8 8 8 8 6 14775
    15 9 Mirror Mirror - Pinkerton's Assorted Colours 9 10 11 10 9 13170
    11 10 Like A Baby - Len Barry 10 17 9 9 10 12285
    21 11 Tomorrow - Sandie Shaw 12 11 10 12 19 12170
    6 12 A Must To Avoid - Herman's Hermits 11 13 13 11 8 12055
    19 13 Second Hand Rose - Barbra Streisand 14 9 14 14 26 10775
    12 14 My Girl - Otis Redding 13 14 16 16 12 10265
    24 15 Little By Little - Dusty Springfield 15 16 12 18 21 9900
    20 16 Girl - The St Louis Union 17 19 15 25 11 8700
    9 17 Let's Hang On - The Four Seasons 16 18 19 19 15 8160
    26 18 Have Pity On The Boy - Paul and Barry Ryan 18 22 17 17 18 7805
    NEW 19 My Love - Petula Clark 20 12 25 15 6900
    10 20 Day Tripper / We Can Work It Out - The Beatles 19 27 18 21 13 6580
    27 21 Girl - The Truth 23 22 20 22 5450
    NEW 22 Uptight - Stevie Wonder 21 15 13 5000
    14 23 Michelle - David and Jonathan 22 28 22 27 16 4525
    30 24 Think - Chris Farlowe 24= 21 24 24 4450
    NEW 25 Sha La La La Lee - The Small Faces 24= 20 30 20 30 3635
    18 26 The River - Ken Dodd 27 21 26 24 3595
    16 27 England Swings - Roger Miller 26 23 28 23 2980
    NEW 28 Get Out Of My Life Woman - Lee Dorsey 28 24 23 2200
    NEW 29 The Hard Way - The Nashville Teens 25 29 29 1900
    28 30 Tchaikovsky One - The Second City Sound 30 27 22 1765
    Bye Bye Blues - Bert Kaempfert 28 25 1260
    Don't Make Me Over - The Swinging Blue Jeans 26 1250
    My Ship Is Coming In - The Walker Brothers 29 17 1190
    Make The World Go Away - Eddy Arnold 26 30 1100
    Can you Please Crawl Out Your Window - Bob Dylan 28 27 940
    Till The End Of The Day - The Kinks 20 935
    Wind Me Up - Cliff Richard 28 255
    Take Me To Your Heart Again - Vince Hill 30 200
    The Carnival Is Over - The Seekers 29 170

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  • MrTibbs
    replied
    Thanks a lot for those words of support and encouragement kjell. Feedback such as yours motivates me and reminds me that lots of guys are still enjoying this site.

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  • kjell
    replied
    Hi Brian!
    You’re really disclosing the inaccuracies of the charts of the 60ies. I did expect differences caused by the use of rankings instead of sales figures, but not that they were that big in the upper 30ies with the higher sales of the second half of the 60ies. This also shows the problems that arise from Driscolls try to make his breakers bubblers for all charts and not for RM alone. With such big differences and the fever positions of the fifties one really need multiple charts to get a broad enough view of the music market of that era. Keep up the good work, this project deserves a bigger audience.

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  • MrTibbs
    replied
    Greetings Pop Pickers !

    Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending 5th February 1966.
    The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending February 5th 1966 NME MM DISC RR Total
    Last This The Sound Survey Stores 200 250 100 85 Points
    Week Week The Top 30 Singles Chart BBC TOP 30 Scored
    1 1 Michelle - The Overlanders 1 1 1 1 1 19050
    6 2 Love's Just A Broken Heart - Cilla Black 2= 3 2 2 5 17960
    2 3 Keep On Running - The Spencer Davis Group 2= 2 5 3 2 17565
    3 4 Spanish Flea - Herb Alpert 4 4 3 4 3 17480
    10 5 You Were On My Mind - Crispian St Peters 5 6 4 5 4 16645
    5 6 A Must To Avoid - Herman's Hermits 6 8 7 7 6 15125
    21 7 These Boots Are Made For Walkin' - Nancy Sinatra 7 5 6 6 18 15055
    17 8 A Groovy Kind Of Love - The Mindbenders 9 11 8 9 14 13395
    7 9 Let's Hang On - The Four Seasons 10 10 12 12 8 12805
    4 10 Day Tripper / We Can Work It Out - The Beatles 8 17 9 8 7 12640
    16 11 Like A Baby - Len Barry 12 12 10 10 16 12425
    13 12 My Girl - Otis Redding 11 7 14 13 13 12380
    9 13 My Ship Is Coming In - The Walker Brothers 14 15 15 16 9 10570
    12 14 Michelle - David and Jonathan 13 16 16 11 11 10450
    18 15 Mirror Mirror - Pinkerton's Assorted Colours 17 13 18 17 21 9100
    15 16 England Swings - Roger Miller 18 24 13 15 17 8690
    11 17 Til The End Of The Day - The Kinks 15 18 19 19 10 8585
    8 18 The River - Ken Dodd 16 11 14 12 8315
    26 19 Second Hand Rose - Barbra Streisand 20 9 22 20 29 7920
    22 20 Girl - The St Louis Union 19 21 17 22 19 7420
    NEW 21 Tomorrow - Sandie Shaw 22 14 23 18 6700
    14 22 The Carnival Is Over - The Seekers 21 25 20 21 15 6310
    27 23 Can You Please Crawl Out Your Window - Bob Dylan 23 19 26 24 23 5030
    NEW 24 Little By Little - Dusty Springfield 25 20 24 23 4750
    23 25 Bye Bye Blues - Bert Kaempfert 24 27 21 25 24 4495
    NEW 26 Have Pity On The Boy - Paul and Barry Ryan 26 22 25 28 3600
    NEW 27 Girl - The Truth 28 23 27 2600
    NEW 28 Tchaikovsky One - The Second City Sound 29 28 27 27 1490
    20 29 Wind Me Up - Cliff Richard 27 30 30 20 1285
    NEW 30 Think - Chris Farlowe 26 1000
    A Hard Day's Night - Peter Sellers 22 765
    Don't Make Me Over - The Swinging Blue Jeans 29 29 700
    Take Me To Your Heart Again - Vince Hill 30 26 625
    Cryin' Time - Ray Charles 28 600
    Uptight - Stevie Wonder 28 600
    Tears - Ken Dodd 30 25 510
    Breaking Up Is Breaking My Heart - Roy Orbison 26 500
    Take Me For What I'm Worth - The Searchers 28 255
    Get Out Of My Life Woman - Lee Dorsey 30 200
    The Very Thought Of You - Tony Bennett 30 85
    Last edited by MrTibbs; Tue August 25, 2020, 21:39.

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