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The Ultimate Averaged Chart - The BBC Chart Re-Imagined

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  • I wonder what a U.S. ultimate averaged chart (based on the charts of Billboard, Cash Box and Record World) would have looked like. I figured going by December 30th 1967 would be the way to go . . . so without further adieu . . .
    The Ultimate U.S. Averaged Chart - Week Ending December 30th 1967 BB CB RW
    Last This The Sound Survey
    Week Week The Top 40 Singles Chart AVG TOP 40
    2 1 Hello Goodbye - The Beatles 1 1 1
    1 2 Daydream Believer - The Monkees 3 2 2
    4 3 I Second That Emotion - Smokey Robinson & The Miracles 4 6 3
    6 4 Woman, Woman - The Union Gap 5 4 4
    3 5 I Heard It Through The Grapevine - Gladys Knight & The Pips 2 3 11
    12 6 Judy In Disguise - John Fred & His Playboy Band 6 8 6
    9 7 Chain Of Fools - Aretha Franklin 7 5 8
    11 8 Bend Me, Shape Me - The American Breed 8 7 5
    7 9 Boogaloo Down Broadway - The Fantastic Johnny C 9 9 7
    10 10 Skinny Legs And All - Joe Tex 10 11 10
    8 11 You Better Sit Down Kids - Cher 12 12 9
    5 12 The Rain, The Park And Other Things - The Cowsills 14 13 12
    20 13 Snoopy's Christmas - The Royal Guardsmen 10 19
    19 14 Honey Chile - Martha Reeves & The Vandellas 11 18 15
    18 15 Summer Rain - Johnny Rivers 15 17 13
    17 16 She's My Girl - The Turtles 20 15 16
    24 17 Different Drum - Stone Poneys Featuring Linda Ronstadt 19 20 20
    25 18 It's Wonderful - The Young Rascals 26 16 17
    16 19 (The Lights Went Out In) Massachusetts - The Bee Gees 27 19 14
    23 20 Next Plane To London - The Rose Garden 17 21 23
    26 21 If I Could Build My Whole World Around You - Marvin Gaye & Tammi Terrell 18 22 21
    15 22 Incense And Peppermints - Strawberry Alarm Clock 13 24 25
    13 23 I Say A Little Prayer - Dionne Warwick 16 28 18
    14 24 In And Out Of Love - Diana Ross And The Supremes 21 14 35
    32 25 Susan - The Buckinghams 29 23 26
    31 26 And Get Away - The Esquires 22 30 27
    42 27 Green Tambourine - The Lemon Pipers 25 26 28
    28 28 Wear Your Love Like Heaven - Donovan 23 29 31
    36 29 Love Me Two Times - The Doors 38 27 24
    35 30 The Other Man's Grass Is Always Greener - Petula Clark 31 31 37
    56 31 Monterey - Eric Burdon And The Animals 32 25 42
    46 32 Who Will Answer? - Ed Ames 36 33 32
    21 33 Neon Rainbow - The Box Tops 24 44 34
    39 34 I Can't Stand Myself (When You Touch Me) - James Brown 37 39 30
    27 35 Beautiful People - Bobby Vee 57 32 22
    22 36 Keep The Ball Rollin' - Jay And The Techniques 28 34 51
    34 37 To Sir With Love - Lulu 39
    30 38 Since You Showed Me How To Be Happy - Jackie Wilson 41 50 29
    29 39 By The Time I Get To Phoenix - Glen Campbell 33 45 43
    40 40 Come See About Me - Jr. Walker And The All Stars 30 40 52
    For obvious reasons, I didn't do the full Top 100 average, just a sample of what a U.S. equivalent of a BBC averaged chart would have looked like (notice the over-40 positions on some of the entries on the left column). But you can see, even here there were wild variances. (And believe me, the last week's chart positions were also averaged.)
    Last edited by ChartAfondicio; Sat June 11, 2022, 15:35. Reason: Ensuring accurate alignment of spreadsheet.

    Comment


    • Interesting to see.

      Actually given the different mix of sales/airplay it is not as diverse as I'd have expected, with only 2 records not charting on all 3. The strangest of these here is 'Snoopy's Christmas' at 13 which never made the Billboard 100, yet topped their Best Bets For Christmas chart throughout December.

      Comment


      • Great stuff, ChartAfondicio !! I'd buy a book of these charts, by decades. Albums too. Calling Joel Whitburn, ha...

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Splodj View Post
          Interesting to see.

          Actually given the different mix of sales/airplay it is not as diverse as I'd have expected, with only 2 records not charting on all 3. The strangest of these here is 'Snoopy's Christmas' at 13 which never made the Billboard 100, yet topped their Best Bets For Christmas chart throughout December.
          I know, right? But then, those BBC "averaged" charts, on some positions, didn't have all the publications either. I was abiding by that principle.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by RokinRobinOfLocksley View Post
            Great stuff, ChartAfondicio !! I'd buy a book of these charts, by decades. Albums too. Calling Joel Whitburn, ha...
            You wouldn't believe all the time it took to cross-check all three publications' charts within two weeks to come up with that. You could also see why I stopped at 40 rather than go all the way to 100. I may do this with another date down the road if I get the mojo.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Splodj View Post
              Interesting to see.

              Actually given the different mix of sales/airplay it is not as diverse as I'd have expected, with only 2 records not charting on all 3. The strangest of these here is 'Snoopy's Christmas' at 13 which never made the Billboard 100, yet topped their Best Bets For Christmas chart throughout December.
              Billboard excluded Christmas songs from the Hot 100 in some years, though they appear to have changed this policy many times. "Snoopy's Christmas" wasn't the only one, but definitely one of the highest-charting to have suffered from this. Again showing that the "official" chart (which Billboard is essentially recognized as) might not always be the best in all regards.

              That wasn't the only policy in which the three magazines differed. Billboard always listed versions of the same song by different artists separately (as they should, in my opinion), but Cash Box combined them until September 1965. Record World only stopped combining them in 1970! One particularly interesting example is "Red Roses for a Blue Lady" in 1965 (an instrumental hit for Bert Kaempfert, with vocal versions by Vic Dana and Wayne Newton). All three charted separately in Billboard, Cash Box had the vocal versions combined at one chart position but a separate listing for the instrumental, and Record World combined all three.

              Record World was the first to give one chart position for both sides of a single (inconsistently at first), Billboard followed suit a little later (during the chart run of Something / Come Together), but Cash Box still had them charting separately.

              There were also other differences, with all three sometimes being out of sync with each other (an example being "Dancing Queen" at number one, which I mentioned earlier). It's hard to say which one I prefer, as Billboard for example was the best with competing versions but the worst at listing Christmas songs...

              Comment


              • Originally posted by setg1 View Post
                Billboard excluded Christmas songs from the Hot 100 in some years
                That explains it.

                There is an a case for giving Cashbox the highest weighting because it surveyed more stores, but personally I would give Billboard highest weighting because of its 'market leader' status. Although despite it's failings there are periods when I prefer Cashbox. ChartAfondico - please could you reveal the weightings?

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Splodj View Post

                  That explains it.

                  There is an a case for giving Cashbox the highest weighting because it surveyed more stores, but personally I would give Billboard highest weighting because of its 'market leader' status. Although despite it's failings there are periods when I prefer Cashbox. ChartAfondico - please could you reveal the weightings?
                  I don't believe there is a weighting, ChartAfondicio just ranked the sum of the positions, so it is essentially the BBC Chart for America. For songs that don't have a position on a chart the average of the other 2 have been used, Positions below 40 have been used as is. Where the points are the same Billboard has been used to split. Can you confirm that that is the case ChartAfondicio?

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Splodj View Post
                    That explains it.

                    There is an a case for giving Cashbox the highest weighting because it surveyed more stores, but personally I would give Billboard highest weighting because of its 'market leader' status. Although despite it's failings there are periods when I prefer Cashbox. ChartAfondico - please could you reveal the weightings?
                    All mathematical averages based on the chart position of a song in each chart, then figuring out which goes where (in cases of ties, which of the lowest of the Billboard chart positions comes first). Points in this case haven't been figured in, otherwise there'd've been a column for that. Almost like figuring a Sudoku puzzle.

                    It also serves as a good exercise to keep one's brain in shape, that's for sure.

                    Just as, in the UK, NME was given more weight than the "Official" charts in certain corners, due to its storied history.

                    Comment


                    • Thanks for the explanations folks. Of course a Christmas chart is unusual in that there are no new or recent releases entering, and it would be interesting to see if they tended to enter higher on a particular chart. Looking at the fast climbers there is no chart that stands out consistently as 'fastest'.

                      Comment


                      • It'd also be interesting to do this 'ultimate' type of chart for a combo of the separate Billboard charts for Best Sellers, Disc Jockey plays, and Jukebox plays, as in prior to the 1955 combo chart that Billboard created, the Top 100, which preceded the Hot 100 by 3 years, though it was essentially the same thing just with a new title. Billboard's combo chart prior to the Top 100 was the Honor Roll of Hits chart, which combined record sales, sheet music sales, DJ plays and Jukebox plays.

                        Comment


                        • So for the BBC Chart, Elvis and Roulette are actually equal 5 on points. Did they choose to elevate Elvis as he was a new entry while Roulette is going down or did they miscount? They didn't separate the second Elvis track (going down) and the Everly Brothers (going up), or Lloyd Price (going up) and I've Waited So Long (going down). Perhaps because they were not in the top 10, though wasn't the rule primarily supposed to be for tthe 20th position to ensure it was a top 20 (and not a top 21)??

                          Comment




                          • Greetings Pop Pickers

                            ​​​​Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending August 1st 1959

                            Here are all '' the uppers, the downers, the just hanging 'arounders '


                            The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending August 1st 1959 NME MM DISC RM Total
                            Last This The Sound Survey 75 35 45 60 Points
                            Week Week The Top 30 Singles Chart BBC TOP 30 Scored
                            3 1 Living Doll - Cliff Richard 1 1 1 2 1 6405
                            1 2 Dream Lover - Bobby Darin 2 2 2 1 2 6280
                            2 3 The Battle Of New Orleans - Lonnie Donegan 3 3 3 3 3 6020
                            5 4 A Big Hunk O' Love - Elvis Presley 4 5 4 4 4 5730
                            4 5 A Teenager In Love - Marty Wilde 5 4 5 5 5 5665
                            8 6 Lipstick On Your Collar - Connie Francis 6 6 6 6 6 5375
                            6 7 Roulette - Russ Conway 7 7 7 7 7 5160
                            9 8 Personality - Anthony Newley 8 8 8 10 8 4855
                            7 9 Peter Gunn / Yep - Duane Eddy 9 9 9 8 9 4775
                            10 10 It's Late / Never Be Anyone Else But You - Ricky Nelson 10 10 11 11 10 4435
                            11 11 Goodbye Jimmy Goodbye - Ruby Murray 11 11 16 9 11 4215
                            23 12 Lonely Boy - Paul Anka 12 16 10 14 20 3285
                            13 13 Take A Message To Mary - The Everly Brothers 13= 21 13 13 14 3210
                            20 14 The Heart Of A Man - Frankie Vaughan 16 18 19 16 15 3030
                            27 15 Ragtime Cowboy Joe - The Chipmunks 15 14 17 12 2905
                            16 16 A Teenager In Love - Craig Douglas 19= 13 20 18 2625
                            15 17 I've Waited So Long - Anthony Newley 17= 25 18 12 19 2480
                            17 18 Three Stars - Ruby Wright 13= 12 15 13 2465
                            21 19 I Know - Perry Como 17= 19 15 16 2360
                            14 20 Personality - Lloyd Price 19= 20 14 17 2260
                            12 21 A Fool Such As I / I Need Your Love Tonight - Elvis Presley 23 20 17 1615
                            18 22 Side Saddle - Russ Conway 12 1425
                            19 23 May You Always - Joan Regan 15 1200
                            27 24 For A Penny - Pat Boone 24 18 1110
                            22 25 Please Don't Touch - Johnny Kidd and The Pirates 19 540
                            NEW 26 Midnight Shift - Buddy Holly 26 375
                            24 26 Why Should I Be Lonely - Tony Brent 26 375
                            RE 28 Petite Fleur - Chris Barber 28 225
                            NEW 29 Twixt Twelve And Twenty - Pat Boone 29 150
                            26 30 La Plume De Ma Tante - Hugo and Luigi 30 75
                            25 Waterloo - Stonewall Jackson
                            Yep - Duane Eddy 17
                            Poor Jenny - The Everly Brothers 22
                            Never Be Anyone Else But You - Ricky Nelson 30
                            The Record Mirror Singles Chart 1954 - 1961 Revised Re-Calculated And Extended

                            The Biggest Chart Of The Fifties

                            Comment


                            • Here is a strange one.

                              Since the chart run began NME have consistently placed Ruby Wright's Three Stars way way lower than all other three charts and not just by a few chart places but multiple places. We have seen a chart outlier on at least one chart most weeks but this one stands out as it is an outlier on NME week after week after week while the other three papers all have it consistently placed within a few places of each other.

                              This week is yet another perfect example as it is at least Top 15 in all other charts but not even in the NME Top 30.

                              There are anomalies and big anomalies and this falls into the latter category of a very strange NME chart history for this single.
                              The Record Mirror Singles Chart 1954 - 1961 Revised Re-Calculated And Extended

                              The Biggest Chart Of The Fifties

                              Comment


                              • Once again, we attempt a U.S. "averaged" chart, this time dealing with Feb. 8, 1969 - the same week as the last one compiled by the BBC prior to the establishment of the "official" charts. The players may be different, but the same principle holds.
                                The Ultimate U.S. Averaged Chart - Week Ending February 8th 1969 BB CB RW
                                Last This The Sound Survey
                                Week Week The Top 40 Singles Chart AVG TOP 40
                                1 1 Crimson And Clover - Tommy James & The Shondells 1 2 1
                                2 2 Touch Me - The Doors 4 1 2
                                3 3 Everyday People - Sly & The Family Stone 2 3 3
                                4 4 Worst That Could Happen - Brooklyn Bridge 3 4 4
                                6 5 I Started A Joke - The Bee Gees 6 6 5
                                10 6 Build Me Up Buttercup - The Foundations 5 5 8
                                7 7 Can I Change My Mind - Tyrone Davis 10 7 6
                                13 8 You Showed Me - The Turtles 14 8 7
                                9 9 If I Can Dream - Elvis Presley 12 10 9
                                15 10 This Magic Moment - Jay & The Americans 13 9 12
                                5 11 I'm Gonna Make You Love Me - Diana Ross & The Supremes And The Temptations 8 13 14
                                16 12 Hang 'Em High - Booker T. & The MG's 9 16 13
                                24 13 I'm Livin' In Shame - Diana Ross & The Supremes 15 12 15
                                11 14 I Heard It Through The Grapevine - Marvin Gaye 7 11 25
                                8 15 Hooked On A Feeling - B.J. Thomas 11 14 18
                                9 16 Soulful Strut - Young-Holt Unlimited 17 17 10
                                12 17 Son-Of-A Preacher Man - Dusty Springfield 18 15 11
                                21 18 I've Gotta Be Me - Sammy Davis, Jr. 19 18 17
                                24 19 Baby Baby Don't Cry - Smokey Robinson & The Miracles 21 19 19
                                29 20 Games People Play - Joe South 22 20 23
                                14 21 Going Up The Country - Canned Heat 16 26 21
                                26 22 Ramblin' Gamblin' Man - Bob Seger System 20 29 16
                                19 23 Cloud Nine - The Temptations 22 22
                                17 24 (There's Gonna Be A) Showdown - Archie Bell & The Drells 24 21 27
                                18 25 Stand By Your Man - Tammy Wynette 23 27 29
                                31 26 Goodnight My Love - Paul Anka 30 32 23
                                20 27 Wichita Lineman - Glen Campbell 29 23 35
                                23 28 California Soul - The 5th Dimension 25 24 39
                                36 29 Indian Giver - 1910 Fruitgum Co. 32 28 28
                                32 30 Take Care Of Your Homework - Johnnie Taylor 26 40 24
                                22 31 Lo Mucho Que Te Quiero (The More I Love You) - Rene & Rene 27 36
                                42 32 Proud Mary - Creedence Clearwater Revival 28 33 34
                                41 33 Crossroads - Cream 34 31 31
                                39 34 Sweet Cream Ladies, Forward March - The Box Tops 33 34 33
                                34 35 The Beginning Of My End - The Unifics 36 52 26
                                27 36 Too Weak To Fight - Clarence Carter 38
                                28 37 Hey Jude - Wilson Pickett 35 25 57
                                37 38 A Minute Of Your Time - Tom Jones 49 38 37
                                35 39 Soul Sister, Brown Sugar - Sam & Dave 41 44
                                40 40 Condition Red - The Goodees 46 39 43
                                I do encourage, for those so inclined, if one wants to start a thread of imagined "averaged" U.S. charts - which I'd recommend, in its timeline, to the start-up of Billboard's Hot 100 in August 1958 up to the 1969 period (or beyond, if the differing weeks ABBA's "Dancing Queen" was #1 are of any indication), to do so. Those who would know how to read "points" to compile such averages would likely be more "accurate"; my examples are mere rough thumbnail sketches.
                                Last edited by ChartAfondicio; Sun June 12, 2022, 12:58. Reason: Ensured proper alignment of spreadsheet.

                                Comment


                                • Originally posted by MrTibbs View Post
                                  Since the chart run began NME have consistently placed Ruby Wright's Three Stars way way lower than all other three charts
                                  ​​​​​​Weeks in Top 20: NME 4, MM 9, Disc 8, RM 11

                                  Peak: NME 19, MM 9, Disc 7, RM 8

                                  (Mr Tibbs - Dream Lover has become by Cliff!)

                                  Comment


                                  • Originally posted by Splodj View Post

                                    ​​​​​​Weeks in Top 20: NME 4, MM 9, Disc 8, RM 11

                                    Peak: NME 19, MM 9, Disc 7, RM 8

                                    (Mr Tibbs - Dream Lover has become by Cliff!)
                                    I've given it back to Bobby
                                    The Record Mirror Singles Chart 1954 - 1961 Revised Re-Calculated And Extended

                                    The Biggest Chart Of The Fifties

                                    Comment


                                    • Originally posted by ChartAfondicio View Post
                                      Once again, we attempt a U.S. "averaged" chart, this time dealing with Feb. 8, 1969 - the same week as the last one compiled by the BBC prior to the establishment of the "official" charts. The players may be different, but the same principle holds. [TABLE="width: 622"]
                                      I make Going Up The Country - Canned Heat at 20 and Games People Play - Joe South at 21 rather than the other way round using either an averaging (or sum) of position.

                                      When were recurrent rules introduced on the BB? Did either CB or RW also have recurrent rules and if so when were they introduced? The absence of the Temptations on the BB but 22 on both of the other charts will complicate any calculations using the top 100 of each chart (they were all top 100s right?). Was this a double A-side which BB combined but the others didn't? Is there any reason to exclude the lower half of each chart (such as recurrent rules or other reasons as to why there not a true picture - apart from the inclusion of airplay in the first place?). Do the charts also cover the same period of time? We have it on good authority that the UK do (though the outlier 'official' RR chart could be partly explained if it covered a different time frame such as Saturday to Friday).
                                      We don't know anything (much?) about the number of stores and radio stations that contributed to the data do we? Of course that probably changes with time. This would be a mammoth undertaking, and we would have to agree on the 'rules' used before hand (or at least whoever compiles it would have to be clear in their calculations).

                                      Comment


                                      • Much as I enjoy taking a look at a similar averaged chart for the US which has the potential to be equally as interesting I don't feel that this is the thread to gain the full benefit from this new US chart input as it becomes confusing for guys following the UK UAC to have a another chart source being input alongside.

                                        The US averaged chart most certainly warrants a thread to itself which I for one would certainly follow and enjoy too.
                                        The Record Mirror Singles Chart 1954 - 1961 Revised Re-Calculated And Extended

                                        The Biggest Chart Of The Fifties

                                        Comment


                                        • Originally posted by MrTibbs View Post
                                          Much as I enjoy taking a look at a similar averaged chart for the US which has the potential to be equally as interesting I don't feel that this is the thread to gain the full benefit from this new US chart input as it becomes confusing for guys following the UK UAC to have a another chart source being input alongside.

                                          The US averaged chart most certainly warrants a thread to itself which I for one would certainly follow and enjoy too.
                                          It's funny, that was what I too was recommending . . .

                                          Comment


                                          • Originally posted by MrTibbs View Post
                                            Much as I enjoy taking a look at a similar averaged chart for the US which has the potential to be equally as interesting I don't feel that this is the thread to gain the full benefit from this new US chart input as it becomes confusing for guys following the UK UAC to have a another chart source being input alongside.

                                            The US averaged chart most certainly warrants a thread to itself which I for one would certainly follow and enjoy too.
                                            Yes, sorry about that, just thinking out loud about the problems inherent with a US averaged one based on the two already posted (that probably should be in their own thread you're right)...

                                            Comment


                                            • If people wish I can move the posts to a new thread? I think I can do that fairly easily.
                                              http://thechartbook.co.uk - for the latest are best chart book - By Decade!
                                              Now including NME, Record Mirror and Melody Maker from the UK and some Billboard charts

                                              Comment


                                              • Originally posted by kingofskiffle View Post
                                                If people wish I can move the posts to a new thread? I think I can do that fairly easily.
                                                The US equivalent chart is a sound idea and has much potential if fine tuned to compliment the UK UAC and does warrant its own thread as a focus for interest. I really don't mind the postings here thus far I too enjoyed them,but don't want to see the thread going in two directions going forward
                                                The Record Mirror Singles Chart 1954 - 1961 Revised Re-Calculated And Extended

                                                The Biggest Chart Of The Fifties

                                                Comment


                                                • Originally posted by kingofskiffle View Post
                                                  If people wish I can move the posts to a new thread? I think I can do that fairly easily.
                                                  I actually created a new thread with the pertinent samples on the introductory post:

                                                  What If? - U.S. "Averaged" Charts

                                                  Whatever one does here with what was already contributed . . .

                                                  Comment


                                                  • kingofskiffle
                                                    kingofskiffle commented
                                                    Editing a comment
                                                    I shall leave as I had not seen the new thread at the time I made my comment.

                                                • So on the August 1st chart, the BBC again appear to have a calculation error as I know by Perry Como is actually at 18 and not equal 17.

                                                  While RM is generally ahead of the curve it seems they're a little behind with Lonely Boy only at 20. Of course Disc is lagging behind both with the no.1 and Ragtime Cowboy Joe. Good agreement in the top 7 with three of the positions being identical across the charts and only 1 place out for some of the others.

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