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The Ultimate Averaged Chart - The BBC Chart Re-Imagined

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  • BTW i notice on some of the charts you have "Take a Message to Mary" and others you have "Take a Letter to Mary". I believe the former is the correct title.
    Last edited by braindeadpj; Mon June 13, 2022, 04:59.

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    • Originally posted by braindeadpj View Post
      BTW i notice on some of the charts you have "Take a Message to Mary" and others you have "Take a Letter to Mary". I believe the former is the correct title.
      Yeah somewhere along the way the 'message' became a 'letter' and it is 'message'.
      The Record Mirror Chart Re-Calculated, Re-Worked, Extended

      The Biggest Chart Of The Time

      Comment


      • Greetings Pop Pickers

        ​​​​Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending August 8th 1959

        Here are all '' the uppers, the downers, the just hanging 'arounders '

        The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending August 8th 1959 NME MM DISC RM Total
        Last This The Sound Survey 75 35 45 60 Points
        Week Week The Top 30 Singles Chart BBC TOP 30 Scored
        1 1 Living Doll - Cliff Richard 1 1 1 1 1 6450
        2 2 Dream Lover - Bobby Darin 2 2 2 2 2 6235
        3 3 The Battle Of New Orleans - Lonnie Donegan 3 3 3 3 3 6020
        4 4 A Big Hunk O' Love - Elvis Presley 4 4 4 4 4 5805
        5 5 A Teenager In Love - Marty Wilde 5 5 5 5 5 5590
        6 6 Lipstick On Your Collar - Connie Francis 6 5 6 6 6 5450
        7 7 Roulette - Russ Conway 7 7 7 7 7 5160
        9 8 Peter Gunn / Yep - Duane Eddy 8 11 8 8 8 4720
        8 9 Personality - Anthony Newley 9 8 9 12 10 4610
        15 10 Ragtime Cowboy Joe - The Chipmunks 10 12 14 11 11 4120
        10 11 It's Late - Never Be Anyone Else But You - Ricky Nelson 12= 10 19 10 12 4080
        14 12 The Heart Of A Man - Frankie Vaughan 11 15 11 15 9 3940
        12 13 Lonely Boy - Paul Anka 12= 9 10 14 18 3930
        11 14 Goodbye Jimmy Goodbye - Ruby Murray 14= 14 20 9 15 3610
        19 15 I Know - Perry Como 16 15 16 18 14 3330
        NEW 16 Someone - Johnny Mathis 14= 12 12 13 3170
        13 17 Poor Jenny / Take A Message To Mary - The Everly Brothers 17 21 13 13 17 3030
        29 18 Twixt Twelve And Twenty - Pat Boone 19= 23 18 16 1955
        18 19 Three Stars - Ruby Wright 18 17 16 20 1825
        20 20 Personality - Lloyd Price 19= 15 19 1280
        16 21 A Teenager In Love - Craig Douglas 15 1200
        22 22 Side Saddle - Russ Conway 19 900
        23 23 May You Always - Joan Regan 20 825
        17 24 I've Waited So Long - Anthony Newley 29 17 780
        28 25 Petite Fleur - Chris Barber 22 675
        21 26 A Fool Such As I / I Need Your Love Tonight - Elvis Presley 19 540
        NEW 27 Summer Of The 17th Doll - Winifred Atwell 24 525
        NEW 28 Sorry (I Ran All The Way Home) - The Impalas 20 495
        NEW 29 Only Sixteen - Craig Douglas 26 375
        26 30 Midnight Shift - Buddy Holly 27 300
        26 Why Should I Be Lonely - Tony Brent 28 225
        My Melancholy Baby - Tommy Edwards 29 150
        Yep - Duane Eddy 18
        Take A Message To Mary - The Everly Brothers 25
        24 For A Penny - Pat Boone
        25 Please Don't Touch - Johnny Kidd and The Pirates
        30 La Plume De Ma Tante - Hugo and Luigi
        The Record Mirror Chart Re-Calculated, Re-Worked, Extended

        The Biggest Chart Of The Time

        Comment


        • Agreement at the top again.

          Originally posted by braindeadpj View Post
          Of course Disc is lagging behind both with the no.1 and Ragtime Cowboy Joe.
          Yet in the 60s, when NME we're fastest, Disc were second fastest.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Splodj View Post
            Agreement at the top again.



            Yet in the 60s, when NME we're fastest, Disc were second fastest.
            What I did notice in the sixties when I entered all the chart positions was that NME and Disc were broadly in agreement and MM and RR also tended to be somewhat similar. It appeared there were two different lines of opinion. Of course NME and Disc used advance orders so that possibly explained their similarity. Oddly MM had the biggest sample and RR had the smallest yet their chart pattern if not positions tended to be similar.

            Work that one out
            The Record Mirror Chart Re-Calculated, Re-Worked, Extended

            The Biggest Chart Of The Time

            Comment


            • It could be the difference between phoned and postal returns.

              It wasn't just advance orders, because when you look at the second week of entry a fast riser tends to be placed in the order of NME, Disc, MM, RR.

              Comment


              • NEW 28 Sorry (I Ran All The Way Home) - The Impalas

                This was released in December 1964 by The Royal Showband Waterford (Featuring Brendan Bowyer). But the B side became even more popular - "The Hucklebuck". It went straight to no. 1 in Ireland and stayed there for 6 weeks, outselling the Beatles "I feel fine". However, it meant nothing in the UK.

                Coast to Coast had a no. 5 hit with "The Hucklebuck" in 1981.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by brian05 View Post
                  NEW 28 Sorry (I Ran All The Way Home) - The Impalas

                  This was released in December 1964 by The Royal Showband Waterford (Featuring Brendan Bowyer). But the B side became even more popular - "The Hucklebuck". It went straight to no. 1 in Ireland and stayed there for 6 weeks, outselling the Beatles "I feel fine". However, it meant nothing in the UK.

                  Coast to Coast had a no. 5 hit with "The Hucklebuck" in 1981.
                  Yeah it always surprised me that The Hucklebuck didn't take off in the UK chart as it was popular at the time and for years afterwards frequently played at weddings, parties, and even discos. It was much better too than the awful Coast To Coast cover.
                  The Record Mirror Chart Re-Calculated, Re-Worked, Extended

                  The Biggest Chart Of The Time

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by MrTibbs View Post

                    What I did notice in the sixties when I entered all the chart positions was that NME and Disc were broadly in agreement and MM and RR also tended to be somewhat similar. It appeared there were two different lines of opinion. Of course NME and Disc used advance orders so that possibly explained their similarity. Oddly MM had the biggest sample and RR had the smallest yet their chart pattern if not positions tended to be similar.

                    Work that one out
                    Forgive me as the exact details are probably set out somewhere in this thread or the '60s one, but could the similarities between MM and RR and those between NME and Disc be more due to survey period? I can't recall what these were for the respective papers, apart from RR's which was Monday-to-Saturday, but I seem to remember they did differ. If Disc and NME's survey frame was the same or very similar, as was RR and MM's, then presumably their respective charts might reflect similar positions and movements, albeit there was a yawning chasm between the latter two on sample size.

                    Comment


                    • I believe the survey frame was the same for all the charts according to Alan Smith/Dave McAleer (is that the right names?), as we have discussed this point several times. It might be an overlap of stores - though again they are supposed to be unique...

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Gambo View Post

                        Forgive me as the exact details are probably set out somewhere in this thread or the '60s one, but could the similarities between MM and RR and those between NME and Disc be more due to survey period? I can't recall what these were for the respective papers, apart from RR's which was Monday-to-Saturday, but I seem to remember they did differ. If Disc and NME's survey frame was the same or very similar, as was RR and MM's, then presumably their respective charts might reflect similar positions and movements, albeit there was a yawning chasm between the latter two on sample size.
                        Yeah Gambo that is a possibility and the other possibility that I have considered is that it may be down to which shops were sampled. If NME and Disc for example sampled the smaller independent shops where the buyers were looking to buy new releases and up and coming hits whilst MM and RR may have sampled the bigger stores where the buyers were buying the existing chart hits.
                        The Record Mirror Chart Re-Calculated, Re-Worked, Extended

                        The Biggest Chart Of The Time

                        Comment


                        • But was there not a bias towards London shops for NME?

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by brian05 View Post
                            But was there not a bias towards London shops for NME?
                            I have heard that before too Brian but not quite sure just how factual it is. I've never seen any evidence though.
                            The Record Mirror Chart Re-Calculated, Re-Worked, Extended

                            The Biggest Chart Of The Time

                            Comment


                            • Greetings Pop Pickers

                              ​​​​Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending August 15th 1959

                              Here are all '' the uppers, the downers, the just hanging 'arounders '

                              The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending August 15th 1959 NME MM DISC RM Total
                              Last This The Sound Survey 75 35 45 60 Points
                              Week Week The Top 30 Singles Chart BBC TOP 30 Scored
                              1 1 Living Doll - Cliff Richard 1 1 1 1 1 6450
                              3 2 The Battle Of New Orleans - Lonnie Donegan 2= 2 3 2 3 6140
                              2 3 Dream Lover - Bobby Darin 2= 3 2 3 2 6115
                              6 4 Lipstick On Your Collar - Connie Francis 4 4 4 4 4 5805
                              4 5 A Big Hunk O' Love - Elvis Presley 5 5 5 5 5 5590
                              5 6 A Teenager In Love - Marty Wilde 6 6 6 6 6 5375
                              13 7 Lonely Boy - Paul Anka 7 7 7 7 7 5160
                              7 8 Roulette - Russ Conway 8 8 8 8 8 4945
                              12 9 The Heart Of A Man - Frankie Vaughan 9 9 10 10 9 4650
                              8 10 Peter Gunn / Yep - Duane Eddy 10 12 11 9 11 4315
                              9 11 Personality - Anthony Newley 11= 10 12 11 13 4220
                              10 12 Ragtime Cowboy Joe - The Chipmunks 11= 11 9 12 14 4145
                              16 13 Someone - Johnny Mathis 13= 13 13 17 15 3570
                              11 14 It's Late / Never Be Anyone Else But You - Ricky Nelson 13= 16 17 13 12 3565
                              15 15 I Know - Perry Como 16 15 16 16 16 3300
                              29 16 Only Sixteen - Craig Douglas 15 14 14 10 3130
                              18 17 Twixt Twelve And Twenty - Pat Boone 17 18 19 18 18 2760
                              14 18 Goodbye Jimmy Goodbye - Ruby Murray 18 17 15 1770
                              NEW 19 Tallahassie Lassie / Give Give Give - Tommy Steele 20 17 1665
                              20 20 Personality - Lloyd Price 26 19 19 1635
                              17 21 Take A Message To Mary / Poor Jenny - The Everly Brothers 19 24 14 1290
                              NEW 22 Only Sixteen - Sam Cooke 23 18 1055
                              NEW 23 Tallahassie Lassie - Freddy Cannon 19 900
                              22 24 Side Saddle - Russ Conway 22 675
                              NEW 25 Mona Lisa - Conway Twitty 20 660
                              28 26 Sorry (I Ran All The Way Home) - The Impalas 20 15 560
                              19 27 Three Stars - Ruby Wright 20 495
                              23 28 May You Always - Joan Regan 25 450
                              24 29 I've Waited So Long - Anthony Newley 20 385
                              30 30 Midnight Shift - Buddy Holly 27 300
                              21 A Teenager In Love - Craig Douglas 28 225
                              27 Summer Of The 17th Doll - Winifred Atwell 29 150
                              Why Should I Be Lonely - Tony Brent 30 75
                              Yep - Duane Eddy 21
                              25 Petite Fleur - Chris Barber
                              26 A Fool Such As I / I Need Your Love Tonight - Elvis Presley
                              The Record Mirror Chart Re-Calculated, Re-Worked, Extended

                              The Biggest Chart Of The Time

                              Comment


                              • Disc yet again very much the outlier with Craig Douglas's Only Sixteen and yet again RM ahead of the pack with a future #1.
                                The Record Mirror Chart Re-Calculated, Re-Worked, Extended

                                The Biggest Chart Of The Time

                                Comment


                                • There's still quite a lot of uniformity in the various top 10s this week.

                                  I'm surprised to see so many competing versions of songs still being a regular feature of the charts as the 1950s start to draw to a close. Certainly by the time The Beatles appear on the scene in little over three years from the above chart, competing versions had become the exception rather than the norm. But it seems to have happened later than I thought.

                                  Comment


                                  • Greetings Pop Pickers

                                    ​​​​Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending August 22nd 1959

                                    Here are all '' the uppers, the downers, the just hanging 'arounders '

                                    The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending August 22nd 1959 NME MM DISC RM Total
                                    Last This The Sound Survey 75 35 45 60 Points
                                    Week Week The Top 30 Singles Chart BBC TOP 30 Scored
                                    1 1 Living Doll - Cliff Richard 1 1 1 1 1 6450
                                    3 2 Dream Lover - Bobby Darin 2 2 4 2 5 5985
                                    2 3 The Battle Of New Orleans - Lonnie Donegan 3 4 2 4 4 5875
                                    4 4 Lipstick On Your Collar - Connie Francis 5= 3 6 3 6 5735
                                    16 5 Only Sixteen - Craig Douglas 4 6 3 6 2 5720
                                    7 6 Lonely Boy - Paul Anka 5= 5 5 5 3 5710
                                    5 7 A Big Hunk O' Love - Elvis Presley 7 7 7 9 7 5070
                                    6 8 A Teenager In Love - Marty Wilde 8 10 9 7 8 4805
                                    9 9 The Heart Of A Man - Frankie Vaughan 9 8 8 10 9 4795
                                    8 10 Roulette - Russ Conway 10 9 10 8 10 4680
                                    13 11 Someone - Johnny Mathis 11= 12 13 17 12 3825
                                    15 12 I Know - Perry Como 13= 13 18 13 11 3815
                                    11 13 Personality - Anthony Newley 13= 11 14 14 16 3760
                                    12 14 Ragtime Cowboy Joe - The Chipmunks 11= 14 12 15 13 3740
                                    18 15 Goodbye Jimmy Goodbye - Ruby Murray 15 15 11 16 17 3415
                                    23 16 Tallahassie Lassie - Freddy Cannon 19 20 18 2175
                                    19 17 Tallahassie Lassie / Give Give Give - Tommy Steele 19= 18 16 20 2160
                                    14 18 It's Late / Never Be Anyone Else But You - Ricky Nelson 16= 16 12 1980
                                    17 19 Twixt Twelve And Twenty - Pat Boone 18 20 15 18 1970
                                    10 20 Peter Gunn / Yep - Duane Eddy 16= 17 11 1950
                                    25 21 Mona Lisa - Conway Twitty 22 20 19 1780
                                    NEW 22 China Sea - Russ Conway 23 15 1560
                                    22 23 Only Sixteen - Sam Cooke 19= 30 19 14 1515
                                    24 24 Side Saddle - Russ Conway 21 750
                                    21 25 Take A Message To Mary / Poor Jenny - The Everly Brothers 29 19 690
                                    NEW 26 The Wonder Of You - Ronnie Hilton 24 525
                                    RE 27 Why Should I Be Lonely - Tony Brent 17 490
                                    20 28 Personality - Lloyd Price 25 450
                                    RE 29 A Teenager In Love - Craig Douglas 27 300
                                    26 30 Sorry (I Ran All The Way Home) - The Impalas 28 225
                                    Yep - Duane Eddy 26
                                    27 Three Stars - Ruby Wright
                                    28 May You Always - Joan Regan
                                    29 I've Waited So Long - Anthony Newley
                                    30 Midnight Shift - Buddy Holly
                                    The Record Mirror Chart Re-Calculated, Re-Worked, Extended

                                    The Biggest Chart Of The Time

                                    Comment


                                    • For my money Craig Douglas's version of Only Sixteen was actually the better version and RM is ahead of the game again like mentioned a few posts back.

                                      11 years before Elvis rediscovers it Ronnie Hilton takes what is actually a good version of The Wonder Of You into the chart and Ray Peterson's original will not be far behind.

                                      I have to admit I'm a sucker for The Chipmunks Ragtime Cowboy Joe
                                      The Record Mirror Chart Re-Calculated, Re-Worked, Extended

                                      The Biggest Chart Of The Time

                                      Comment


                                      • 19 Twixt Twelve And Twenty - Pat Boone

                                        I guess he is really talking about teenagers.

                                        Some on-line sources say the term "teenagers" was first used in the 1920s, others say 1940s or 1950s.
                                        I prefer the year 1954 when term was used to market clothes to young people or adolescents.

                                        Comment


                                        • Originally posted by MrTibbs View Post
                                          I have to admit I'm a sucker for The Chipmunks Ragtime Cowboy Joe
                                          That speeded up singing by anthropomorphic critters had started here with 'Pinky and Perky'. Their first single 'Tom Dooley' was in 1958 but, despite generous television exposure, I don't think they had any hits.

                                          Comment


                                          • Originally posted by braindeadpj View Post
                                            BTW i notice on some of the charts you have "Take a Message to Mary" and others you have "Take a Letter to Mary". I believe the former is the correct title.
                                            Now that I have had time today I have gone back and amended the charts both here and on the original spreadsheets where it said 'Letter' to 'Message'.
                                            The Record Mirror Chart Re-Calculated, Re-Worked, Extended

                                            The Biggest Chart Of The Time

                                            Comment


                                            • Greetings Pop Pickers

                                              ​​​​Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending August 29th 1959

                                              Here are all '' the uppers, the downers, the just hanging 'arounders '

                                              The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending August 29th 1959 NME MM DISC RM Total
                                              Last This The Sound Survey 75 35 45 60 Points
                                              Week Week The Top 30 Singles Chart BBC TOP 30 Scored
                                              1 1 Living Doll - Cliff Richard 1 1 1 1 2 6390
                                              5 2 Only Sixteen - Craig Douglas 2 2 2 2 1 6295
                                              6 3 Lonely Boy - Paul Anka 3 3 3 3 3 6020
                                              3 4 The Battle Of New Orleans - Lonnie Donegan 4 4 4 4 5 5745
                                              4 5 Lipstick On Your Collar - Connie Francis 5 5 5 5 4 5650
                                              2 6 Dream Lover - Bobby Darin 6 5 6 6 6 5450
                                              9 7 The Heart Of A Man - Frankie Vaughan 7 7 7 7 7 5160
                                              22 8 China Tea - Russ Conway 8 8 8 10 8 4855
                                              7 9 A Big Hunk O' Love - Elvis Presley 9 10 9 8 9 4700
                                              8 10 A Teenager In Love - Marty Wilde 10 12 11 9 11 4315
                                              11 11 Someone - Johnny Mathis 11 10 12 13 10 4310
                                              10 12 Roulette - Russ Conway 12 9 15 11 14 4130
                                              21 13 Mona Lisa - Conway Twitty 13 13 10 19 16 3525
                                              NEW 14 Here Comes Summer - Jerry Keller 16 19 14 12 2635
                                              12 15 I Know - Perry Como 14 14 17 12 2620
                                              16 16 Tallahassie Lassie - Freddy Cannon 18 17 18 15 2595
                                              14 17 Ragtime Cowboy Joe - The Chipmunks 15 15 13 16 2505
                                              19 18 Twixt Twelve And Twenty - Pat Boone 17 26 16 15 18 2400
                                              17 19 Tallahassie Lassie / Give Give Give - Tommy Steele 16 20 1785
                                              NEW 20 Only Sixteen - Al Saxon 24 20 17 1750
                                              15 21 Goodbye Jimmy Goodbye - Ruby Murray 20 19 20 1740
                                              13 22 Personality - Anthony Newley 21 19 1470
                                              23 23 Only Sixteen - Sam Cooke 19 27 13 1380
                                              18 24 It's Late / Never Be Anyone Else But You - Ricky Nelson 22 17 1305
                                              24 25 Side Saddle - Russ Conway 18 975
                                              20 26 Peter Gunn / Yep - Duane Eddy 20 14 765
                                              26 27 The Wonder Of You - Ronnie Hilton 22 675
                                              30 28 Sorry (I Ran All The Way Home) - The Impalas 18 455
                                              NEW 29 Remember When - The Platters 25 450
                                              NEW 30 High Hopes - Frank Sinatra 28 225
                                              Honeymoon Song - Manuel and The Music Of The Mountains 30 75
                                              Give Give Give - Tommy Steele 28
                                              25 Take A Message To Mary - Poor Jenny - The Everly Brothers
                                              27 Why Should I Be Lonely - Tony Brent
                                              28 Personality - Lloyd Price
                                              29 A Teenager In Love - Craig Douglas
                                              The Record Mirror Chart Re-Calculated, Re-Worked, Extended

                                              The Biggest Chart Of The Time

                                              Comment


                                              • Good agreement among the music papers at the top end of the chart.

                                                As predicted RM is yet again ahead of the game with the #1 where the rest will follow.
                                                The Record Mirror Chart Re-Calculated, Re-Worked, Extended

                                                The Biggest Chart Of The Time

                                                Comment


                                                • 'Here Comes Summer' enters in all charts except Disc, highest in RM. No surprise there. Although at the end of August it would be more apt to say 'There Goes Summer'!

                                                  Comment


                                                  • Now there's 3 versions of Only Sixteen.

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