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The Ultimate Averaged Chart - The BBC Chart Re-Imagined

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  • MrTibbs
    replied
    Im working today guys. Will post the next chart when I get home tonight. I get the mathematical point made above re joint positions but I believe they are what they are, equal, for the purpose of chart compilation. If both sold 100,000 say, then they are equal and entitled to hold the higher chart position jointly . The records below did not sell as much so are correctly placed. Retrospectively adjusting these charts now to compensate is unfairly changing the history of that chart.

    Leave a comment:


  • Splodj
    replied
    Robin, sorry for not seeing your post on this before. I believe Brian applied the mid-point principle to the RM dealers charts and this struck me as the best policy.

    The argument against could be: 'But the component chart says number one so that is what I am applying'. But that is only half the picture - the other half being that the component chart also says there is no number two. You have explained this well by citing the actual points involved.

    Leave a comment:


  • RokinRobinOfLocksley
    replied
    Originally posted by Splodj View Post
    NME had an incredible 7 number one ties in the period 1961-6.

    An interesting technical point to ponder is a why a composite chart should treat tied records as being at the highest position. Shouldn't they be considered as being at the mid-point between the highest and the lowest position? So, for example, two joint number ones would be counted as being at number one and a half.
    Excellent point Splodj, and I agree (have posted this opinion before myself). Giving 2 tied records the point value of the highest position creates a total points imbalance for the whole chart. And compiling multiple charts together for a composite would favor those 2 records, and penalize others, for the other records would have to overcome those extra points in order to rank higher.

    For a Top 30 chart, the sum of all positions is 465 points. But if you have 2 records tied at #1, the total points becomes 464 (non-inverse), or 466 (inverse).

    If you do weighted charts like Brian is doing here, the sum of all inverse points across 4 charts weighted by # of dealers is 295,275. But if you have 2 records tied at #1 on NME, giving each record the value of a #1, then the total points becomes 295,475: you have injected an extra 200 points into the process, which helps the 2 tied records, and hurts all other records by placing those extra points in front of them to overcome.

    It's like a golf tournament. If 2 golfers tie at #2, they take the 2nd and 3rd place prize money and split it, they don't pay both golfers the #2 prize money.

    So yes, fairness dictates that tied records split the points between the 2 positions, not give them both the points of the highest position.

    Leave a comment:


  • Graham76man
    replied
    Indeed it was, and was on new release that very week. The EP entering at 30 on 4 April, or week ending 10 April. But it didn't stop the USA single reaching 9 that week, it's highest position. Wouldn't at all be surprised if Epstien's stores had stacks of the US records and sold the most. Liverpool could easily get imports from the USA being a port.
    I hate the week ending dates. They cause me lots of confusion. They don't actually cover the sales for 4 to 10 April, instead they cover the sales for the seven (well 6 in the 60's) before the 4 April.

    Leave a comment:


  • Splodj
    replied
    NME had an incredible 7 number one ties in the period 1961-6.

    An interesting technical point to ponder is a why a composite chart should treat tied records as being at the highest position. Shouldn't they be considered as being at the mid-point between the highest and the lowest position? So, for example, two joint number ones would be counted as being at number one and a half.

    'Eight Days A Week' was available to UK customers on the first 'Beatles For ​​​​Sale' EP. It says on the EP sleevenotes that it includes the three tracks from the album that were considered for a single, including Eight Days. I assume there was artistic pressure from the Beatles to do this, rather than release Eight Days alone as a single (per the States) which would have been the more commercial option.

    Leave a comment:


  • Graham76man
    replied
    The Barron Knights single credits "with Duke D'Mond". Many of their hits credit that. The Numbers are spelt out: Unit Four + Two. I have noticed that even Record Retailer often alters titles and artists names. You would think that the "Trade Paper" would get things like that right! The worst case I have come across is Pinkerton's Assorted Colours. With all the papers using those words. But not all of those words are used on the singles. Instead the label shortened one word to "Assort." Given the papers would have benefited from the reduction. Don't forget type had to still be "set" at this stage! Not putting the full word would have saved them time.

    Missing hits include: The Beatles - Eight Days A Week at 12. I don't know if it was an import or what, but it was selling. Woolies at this time were selling mostly EP's - All titled "The Big Four" - Four current hits all covered by session singers and musicians. Number 3 in the series had moved up from 40 to 27. Woolies had four of these EP's for sale at this point. All were in the top 100, but only one in the 30.

    The biggest variation is that Marianne Faithful had knocked off the Stones selling just 5,000 more than them. She keeps it (sales falling though), preventing both Cliff and Unit Four from getting top, both stalling at number two. Before the new Beatles hit lands top.
    Cliff did (later) however pass the million sales mark.

    Leave a comment:


  • MrTibbs
    replied
    Yeah Splodj. Unit and Cliff will both top 2 charts but the store returns will place Cliff at the chart summit.
    NME will also have a joint No 1 with Cliff and The Yardbirds, that is a weird one. There are actually times I have to admit when the NME chart is more out of sync than RR

    Leave a comment:


  • Splodj
    replied
    The next week looks like the one where there is a difference with the BBC top spot then. Cliff instead of Unit 4+2?

    Leave a comment:


  • MrTibbs
    replied
    Greetings Pop Pickers ! Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart Top 30 for Week Ending 3rd April 1965.

    The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending April 3rd 1965 NME MM DISC RR Total
    Last This The Sound Survey Stores 200 250 100 85 Points
    Week Week The Top 30 Singles Chart BBC TOP 30 Scored
    1 1 The Last Time - The Rolling Stones 1 1 1 1 1 19050
    7 2 Concrete And Clay - Unit 4 + 2 2 2 2 2 2 18415
    9 3 The Minute You're Gone - Cliff Richard 3 3 3 3 6 17525
    13 4 For Your Love - The Yardbirds 4 4 4 4 5 17060
    2 5 It's Not Unusual - Tom Jones 5 5 8 5 3 15930
    3 6 Silhouettes - Herman's Hermits 7 6 6 6 9 15620
    4 7 Goodbye My Love - The Searchers 6 8 7 7 4 15295
    16 8 Catch The Wind - Donovan 8 9 5 9 7 15140
    5 9 Come And Stay With Me - Marianne Faithfull 9 7 9 8 8 14555
    6 10 I'll Never Find Another You - The Seekers 10 11 10 10 10 13135
    8 11 I'll Stop At Nothing - Sandie Shaw 11 13 12 12 11 11950
    25 12 The Times They Are A-Changin' - Bob Dylan 12= 10 13 13 15 11860
    17 13 I Can't Explain - The Who 12= 14 11 14 12 11715
    27 14 Here Comes The Night - Them 14 12 15 11 14 11245
    19 15 You're Breaking My Heart - Keely Smith 15 15 19 15 16 9075
    10 16 I Must Be Seeing Things - Gene Pitney 16 23 14 17 13 8780
    NEW 17 I'll Be There - Gerry and The Pacemakers 17 17 18 16 19 8570
    NEW 18 Stop In The Name Of Love - The Supremes 19 16 21 19 23 7380
    11 19 Yes I Will - The Hollies 18 24 17 20 17 7190
    18 20 I Know A Place - Petula Clark 20 25 16 22 18 6955
    12 21 Honey I Need - The Pretty Things 21 18 23 18 25 6410
    NEW 22 Little Things - Dave Berry 22 19 22 24 26 5775
    14 23 I Apologise - P J Proby 23 20 23 20 4485
    NEW 24 Reelin' And Rockin' - The Dave Clark Five 25 22 26 25 27 3990
    NEW 25 Everybody's Gonna Be Happy - The Kinks 24 21 28 21 29 3920
    22 26 Do The Clam - Elvis Presley 26 29 24 27 22 3315
    15 27 The Game Of Love - Wayne Fontana and The Mindbenders 27 25 29 21 2550
    NEW 28 I Don't Want To Go On Without You - The Moody Blues 28 20 28 2500
    NEW 29 Pop Go The Workers - The Barron Knights 29 26 30 26 1750
    24 30 The Special Years - Val Doonican 30 27 24 1595
    In The Meantime - Georgie Fame and The Blue Flames 28 30 28 955
    Nowhere To Run - Martha and The Vandellas 27 800
    Goodnight - Roy Orbison 29 500
    King Of The Road - Roger Miller 30 200
    Hawaiian Wedding Song - Julie Rogers 30 200
    Don't Let Me Be Misunderstood - The Animals 30 85

    Leave a comment:


  • trebor
    replied
    Good to see the BBC #2 and #4 ties broken!

    Leave a comment:


  • MrTibbs
    replied
    Greetings Pop Pickers ! Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart Top 30 for Week Ending 27th March 1965.

    The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending March 27th 1965 NME MM DISC RR Total
    Last This The Sound Survey Stores 200 250 100 85 Points
    Week Week The Top 30 Singles Chart BBC TOP 30 Scored
    1 1 The Last Time - The Rolling Stones 1 1 1 1 1 19050
    2 2 It's Not Unusual - Tom Jones 2= 3 2 3 2 18115
    3 3 Silhouettes - Herman's Hermits 2= 2 3 2 3 18080
    7 4 Goodbye My Love - The Searchers 4= 5 4 5 5 16760
    4 5 Come And Stay With Me - Marianne Faithfull 4= 4 7 4 4 16395
    5 6 I'll Never Find Another You - The Seekers 6 6 6 6 6 15875
    14 7 Concrete And Clay - Unit 4 + 2 7 7 5 8 8 15555
    6 8 I'll Stop At Nothing - Sandie Shaw 8 8 8 7 7 14790
    20 9 The Minute You're Gone - Cliff Richard 9 9 10 10 10 13535
    8 10 I Must Be Seeing Things - Gene Pitney 10 14 9 9 9 12970
    10 11 Yes I Will - The Hollies 11 13 11 12 11 12200
    12 12 Honey I Need - The Pretty Things 14 10 12 17 18 11455
    28 13 For Your Love - The Yardbirds 12 12 16 11 13 11080
    11 14 I Apologise - P J Proby 13 17 13 14 12 10615
    9 15 The Game Of Love - Wayne Fontana and The Mindbenders 15 15 14 15 14 10495
    NEW 16 Catch The Wind - Donovan 16 11 15 16 22 10265
    23 17 I Can't Explain - The Who 17 18 17 18 15 8760
    18 18 I Know A Place - Petula Clark 18 19 19 19 17 7790
    24 19 You're Breaking My Heart - Keely Smith 19 16 24 13 23 7230
    13 20 Don't Let Me Be Misunderstood - The Animals 20 23 21 20 19 6220
    19 21 In The Meantime - Georgie Fame and The Blue Flames 22 20 22 22 24 5945
    22 22 Do The Clam - Elvis Presley 21 22 23 21 20 5735
    15 23 Goodnight - Roy Orbison 23 18 23 21 4900
    17 24 The Special Years - Val Doonican 24 20 28 16 4325
    NEW 25 The Times They Are A-Changin' - Bob Dylan 25 21 25 2600
    16 26 Funny How Love Can Be - The Ivy League 26 25 26 1925
    NEW 27 Here Comes The Night - Them 25 26 1700
    29 28 She's Lost You - The Zephyrs 23 1600
    21 29 Mary Anne - The Shadows 28= 26 27 1590
    25 30 A Windmill In Old Amsterdam - Ronnie Hilton 27 27 25 1510
    Stop In The Name Of Love - The Supremes 25 30 1300
    Reelin' And Rockin' - The Dave Clark Five 30 30 29 29 28 1155
    I'll Be There - Gerry and The Pacemakers 28= 29 24 1100
    Golden Lights - Twinkle 28 30 835
    Find My Way Back Home - The Nashville Teens 27 800
    Little Things - Dave Berry 28 600
    It Hurts So Much - Jim Reeves 30 29 420
    King Of The Road - Roger Miller 27 400

    Leave a comment:


  • MrTibbs
    replied
    Greetings Pop Pickers ! Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart Top 30 for Week Ending 20th March 1965.

    The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending March 20th 1965 NME MM DISC RR Total
    Last This The Sound Survey Stores 200 250 100 85 Points
    Week Week The Top 30 Singles Chart BBC TOP 30 Scored
    1 1 The Last Time - The Rolling Stones 1 1 1 1 1 19050
    2 2 It's Not Unusual - Tom Jones 2 2 2 2 2 18415
    4 3 Silhouettes - Herman's Hermits 3 3 3 3 3 17780
    6 4 Come And Stay With Me - Marianne Faithfull 4= 5 4 4 5 16860
    3 5 I'll Never Find Another You - The Seekers 4= 4 5 5 4 16795
    5 6 I'll Stop At Nothing - Sandie Shaw 6 6 6 6 8 15705
    12 7 Goodbye My Love - The Searchers 7 7 7 7 6 15325
    8 8 I Must Be Seeing Things - Gene Pitney 8 9 8 8 7 14490
    7 9 The Game Of Love - Wayne Fontana and The Mindbenders 9 8 9 9 10 14085
    10 10 Yes I Will - The Hollies 10 10 10 10 9 13420
    14 11 I Apologise - P J Proby 11 12 11 13 11 12300
    16 12 Honey I Need - The Pretty Things 12 11 12 12 13 12180
    9 13 Don't Let Me Be Misunderstood - The Animals 13 13 13 11 12 11715
    23 14 Concrete And Clay - Unit 4 + 2 15 14 16 15 18 9855
    15 15 Goodnight - Roy Orbison 14 20 14 14 14 9595
    11 16 Funny How Love Can Be - The Ivy League 16= 22 15 18 17 8290
    13 17 The Special Years - Val Doonican 16= 21 17 19 15 8060
    25 18 I Know A Place - Petula Clark 19 16 18 22 21 8000
    19 19 In The Meantime - Georgie Fame and The Blue Flames 18 17 20 17 22 7715
    NEW 20 The Minute You're Gone - Cliff Richard 20 15 21 16 26 7625
    20 21 Mary Anne - The Shadows 21 25 19 20 20 6235
    NEW 22 Do The Clam - Elvis Presley 22 19 26 23 19 5470
    29 23 I Can't Explain - The Who 23 23 25 21 23 4780
    27 24 You're Breaking My Heart - Keely Smith 26 17 29 24 4000
    26 25 A Windmill In Old Amsterdam - Ronnie Hilton 24= 27 23 26 24 3895
    17 26 It Hurts So Much - Jim Reeves 24= 22 16 3525
    18 27 Tired Of Waiting For You - The Kinks 27 24 25 2260
    NEW 28 For Your Love - The Yardbirds 28 26 25 1600
    30 29 She's Lost You - The Zephyrs 30 24 1400
    22 30 Golden Lights - Twinkle 29 28 29 28 1205
    Keep Searchin' - Del Shannon 27 29 1170
    Catch The Wind - Donovan 29 28 700
    Reelin' And Rockin' - The Dave Clark Five 30 27 30 685
    I Don't Want To Go On Without You - The Moody Blues 28 600
    The 'In' Crowd - Dobie Gray 30 27 590
    King Of The Road - Roger Miller 30 100

    Leave a comment:


  • MrTibbs
    replied
    That sounds like a plan Robin, I will include that info from the next chart to be posted shortly.

    I am usually a few compiled charts ahead of posting in order that I can post daily. To intrigue you in advance, in a few weeks time for the first time the No 1 single is going to differ from that compiled by the BBC !!

    Leave a comment:


  • RokinRobinOfLocksley
    replied
    Another week where the BBC invoked their #1 rule (because of Record Retailer being out of kilter), but Brian didn't have to...

    Brian a thought: how about adding your # of dealers to the table, like under NME put 200, MM 250, Disc 100, RR 85? Cheerz!
    Last edited by RokinRobinOfLocksley; Sat July 18, 2020, 14:34.

    Leave a comment:


  • MrTibbs
    replied
    Greetings Pop Pickers ! Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart Top 30 for Week Ending 13th March 1965.

    The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending March 13th 1965 BBC NME MM DISC RR Total
    Last This The Sound Survey Chart Chart Chart Chart Chart Points
    Week Week The Top 30 Singles Chart Number Of Chart Positions 30 Scored
    16 1 The Last Time - The Rolling Stones 1 1 1 1 6 18625
    1 2 It's Not Unusual - Tom Jones 2 2 2 2 1 18500
    2 3 I'll Never Find Another You - The Seekers 3 3 4 3 2 17615
    4 4 Silhouettes - Herman's Hermits 4 4 3 4 3 17480
    7 5 I'll Stop At Nothing - Sandie Shaw 5 5 5 5 4 16595
    8 6 Come And Stay With Me - Marianne Faithfull 6 7 6 6 7 15590
    3 7 The Game Of Love - Wayne Fontana and The Mindbenders 7 6 8 8 5 15260
    6 8 I Must Be Seeing Things - Gene Pitney 8 9 7 7 9 14670
    5 9 Don't Let Me Be Misunderstood - The Animals 9 8 11 10 8 13655
    11 10 Yes I Will - The Hollies 10 11 9 9 10 13485
    9 11 Funny How Love Can Be - The Ivy League 11 12 10 11 11 12750
    30 12 Goodbye My Love - The Searchers 12 10 15 12 13 11630
    10 13 The Special Years - Val Doonican 13 15 13 13 12 11115
    18 14 I Apologise - P J Proby 15 13 14 15 16 10725
    14 15 Goodnight - Roy Orbison 14 17 12 14 14 10695
    20 16 Honey I Need - The Pretty Things 16 14 19 16 19 8920
    13 17 It Hurts So Much - Jim Reeves 17 18 17 17 17 8690
    12 18 Tired Of Waiting For You - The Kinks 18 20 18 19 15 8010
    22 19 In The Meantime - Georgie Fame and The Blue Flames 19 16 20 18 24 7645
    19 20 Mary Anne - The Shadows 20 20 21 20 18 6905
    17 21 Keep Searchin' - Del Shannon 21 16 21 20 5685
    21 22 Golden Lights - Twinkle 22 26 23 26 21 4350
    25 23 Concrete And Clay - Unit 4 + 2 23= 22 25 24 27 4340
    15 24 You've Lost That Lovin' Feelin' - The Righteous Brothers 23= 22 23 22 3815
    NEW 25 I Know A Place - Petula Clark 25 24 26 27 30 3135
    23 26 A Windmill In Old Amsterdam - Ronnie Hilton 26= 24 30 23 2530
    NEW 27 You're Breaking My Heart - Keely Smith 19 2400
    NEW 28 The 'In' Crowd - Dobie Gray 26= 27 28 28 25 2360
    28 29 I Can't Explain - The Who 28 27 25 26 2025
    NEW 30 She's Lost You - The Zephyrs 30= 23 1600
    Do The Clam - Elvis Presley 29 28 22 1500
    The Minute You're Gone - Cliff Richard 30= 25 29 1400
    Cast Your Fate To The Wind - Sounds Orchestral 29 500
    I Don't Want To Go On Without You - The Moody Blues 29 400
    Stop Feeling Sorry For Yourself - Adam Faith 28 255
    Can't You Hear My Heartbeat - Goldie and The Gingerbreads 30 250
    For Your Love - The Yardbirds 30 200
    Come Tomorrow - Manfred Mann 29 170

    Leave a comment:


  • MrTibbs
    replied
    I think Radios Caroline and London played their part in bringing future hits to buyers attention but I think Radio Luxembourg played an even bigger part albeit they were a nights only service. Throughout the sixties it was Luxembourg myself and friends tuned into and every Sunday night I was in bed under the covers pretending I was sleeping listening to Luxembourgs Top 20 on my tiny transistor radio moving it around in frustration as the signal faded in and out.

    Leave a comment:


  • MrTibbs
    replied
    Greetings Pop Pickers ! Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart Top 30 for Week Ending 6th March 1965.

    The BBC made a mistake this week miscalculating Jim Reeves when his chart place should have been higher. I have not corrected the BBC Chart. It is posted as it was at the time.

    The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending March 6th 1965 BBC NME MM Disc RR Total
    Last This The Sound Survey Chart Chart Chart Chart Chart Points
    Week Week The Top 30 Singles Chart Number Of Chart Positions 30 Scored
    3 1 It's Not Unusual - Tom Jones 1 1 1 1 2 18965
    1 2 I'll Never Find Another You - The Seekers 2 2 2 2 1 18500
    2 3 The Game Of Love - Wayne Fontana and The Mindbenders 3 4 3 3 3 17580
    11 4 Silhouettes - Herman's Hermits 4 3 4 4 4 17345
    4 5 Don't Let Me Be Misunderstood - The Animals 5 6 5 5 5 16310
    10 6 I Must Be Seeing Things - Gene Pitney 6 7 6 6 6 15675
    16 7 I'll Stop At Nothing - Sandie Shaw 7 5 7 7 11 15300
    14 8 Come And Stay With Me - Marianne Faithfull 8 9 8 8 9 14320
    7 9 Funny How Love Can Be - The Ivy League 9 10 9 9 8 13855
    6 10 The Special Years - Val Doonican 10 12 10 11 7 13090
    13 11 Yes I Will - The Hollies 11 11 11 10 14 12545
    5 12 Tired Of Waiting For You - The Kinks 12 14 12 12 10 11835
    12 13 It Hurts So Much - Jim Reeves 21 15 16 16 12 10065
    15 14 Goodnight - Roy Orbison 13 16 15 15 15 9960
    8 15 You've Lost That Lovin' Feelin' - The Righteous Brothers 14 20 14 14 13 9680
    NEW 16 The Last Time - The Rolling Stones 18 8 17 17 9500
    9 17 Keep Searchin' - Del Shannon 15 22 13 13 16 9375
    25 18 I Apologise - P J Proby 16 13 19 19 18 8905
    19 19 Mary Anne - The Shadows 17 17 18 18 17 8540
    27 20 Honey I Need - The Pretty Things 19 18 20 20 21 7300
    24 21 Golden Lights - Twinkle 20 21 22 21 22 6015
    NEW 22 In The Meantime - Georgie Fame and The Blue Flames 24 19 25 23 4700
    28 23 A Windmill In Old Amsterdam - Ronnie Hilton 23 25 23 24 24 4495
    17 24 Come Tomorrow - Manfred Mann 22 21 22 19 4420
    NEW 25 Concrete And Clay - Unit 4 + 2 25 23 27 25 3200
    18 26 Cast Your Fate To The Wind - Sounds Orchestral 26 24 20 2685
    22 27 Stop Feeling Sorry For Yourself - Adam Faith 27 30 28 28 23 1930
    NEW 28 I Can't Explain - The Who 28= 26 30 26 1750
    20 29 Go Now - The Moody Blues 30 26 27 1590
    NEW 30 Goodbye My Love - The Searchers 24 1400
    Can't You Hear My Heartbeat - Goldie and The Gingerbreads 28= 28 29 25 1310
    The 'In' Crowd - Dobie Gray 26 28 1255
    Leader Of The Pack - The Shangri-Las 29 30 26 1025
    Digging My Potatoes - Heinz 29 400
    Hawaii Tattoo - The Waikikis 27 400
    Someone Must Have Hurt You A Lot - Frankie Vaughan 30 200
    Baby Please Don't Go - Them 29 170
    Paper Tiger - Sue Thompson 30 85

    Leave a comment:


  • MrTibbs
    replied
    Greetings Pop Pickers ! Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart Top 30 for Week Ending 27th February 1965.

    The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending February 27th 1965 BBC NME MM Disc RR Total
    Last This The Sound Survey Chart Chart Chart Chart Chart Points
    Week Week The Top 30 Singles Chart Number Of Chart Positions 30 Scored
    1 1 I'LL Never Find Another You - The Seekers 1 1 1 1 1 19050
    5 2 The Game Of Love - Wayne Fontana and The Mindbenders 2 3 2 2 2 18215
    14 3 It's Not Unusual - Tom Jones 4 2 3 3 10 17385
    6 4 Don't Let Me Be Misunderstood - The Animals 3 4 4 4 3 17230
    2 5 Tired Of Waiting For You - The Kinks 5 5 5 5 5 16510
    7 6 The Special Years - Val Doonican 6 7 6 6 7 15590
    8 7 Funny How Love Can Be - The Ivy League 8 6 7 8 9 15170
    3 8 You've Lost That Lovin' Feelin' - The Righteous Brothers 7 9 8 7 4 14845
    4 9 Keep Searchin' - Del Shannon 9 11 9 9 6 13825
    19 10 I Must Be Seeing Things - Gene Pitney 10 8 11 10 11 13400
    26 11 Silhouettes - Herman's Hermits 11 10 13 11 13 12230
    10 12 It Hurts So Much - Jim Reeves 12 13 12 14 8 12005
    16 13 Yes I Will - The Hollies 13 16 10 13 12 11665
    23 14 Come And Stay With Me - Marianne Faithfull 14 12 14 12 15 11310
    13 15 Goodnight - Roy Orbison 15 15 15 16 14 10145
    29 16 I'll Stop At Nothing - Sandie Shaw 16 14 16 15 17 9940
    9 17 Come Tomorrow - Manfred Mann 17 17 17 17 16 8975
    12 18 Cast Your Fate To The Wind - Sounds Orchestral 18 21 18 18 19 7570
    20 19 Mary Anne - The Shadows 19 19 19 19 20 7535
    11 20 Go Now - The Moody Blues 20 20 20 20 18 7155
    15 21 Leader Of The Pack - The Shangri-Las 21 22 21 21 23 5980
    NEW 22 Stop Feeling Sorry For Yourself - Adam Faith 22 24 23 24 24 4695
    18 23 Baby Please Don't Go - Them 23 22 23 21 3900
    NEW 24 Golden Lights - Twinkle 24 24 26 22 3550
    NEW 25 I Apologise - P J Proby 25 22 27 27 3200
    17 26 You've Lost That Lovin' Feelin' - Cilla Black 27 25 25 22 2865
    30 27 Honey I Need - The Pretty Things 26 18 30 2700
    NEW 28 A Windmill In Old Amsterdam - Ronnie Hilton 28= 24 29 1920
    NEW 29 Your Hurtin' Kinda Love - Dusty Springfield 30= 26 28 1300
    22 30 Ferry Cross The Mersey - Gerry and The Pacemakers 28= 28 25 1260
    I Can't Explain - The Who 30= 28 26 1100
    The 'In' Crowd - Dobie Gray 27 800
    Terry - Twinkle 29 28 755
    I'm Lost Without You - Billy Fury 30 26 675
    Can't You Hear My Heartbeat - Goldie and The Gingerbreads 29 29 600
    Yeh Yeh - Georgie Fame and The Blue Flames 27 340
    Paper Tiger - Sue Thompson 30 200
    The Three Bells - Brian Poole and The Tremeloes 30 85

    Leave a comment:


  • MrTibbs
    replied
    Yeah Graham, considering it takes around 1.5 hours per chart as it is, and I work 2 days a week again after I retired, it will take months as it is to work through all the years, as I eventually want to cover every chart from 1956 when MM joined RM and NME, until Feb 1969, and hopefully go beyond that too to show how an averaged chart would have looked in comparison to BMRB's attempt.

    Leave a comment:


  • Graham76man
    replied
    Interestingly enough Record Retailer itself did some comparison charts with their chart and all the pirate stations. These can be found on the sites what cover the pirate stations.

    I agree with you Brian it would make the thing messy as well as lots more work to do!

    I also came upon this in the TV Pop Diaries website. A great site if you want to see what pop music was on TV any year.

    Thursday 24th August 1967
    BBC1 Top Of The Pops 7:30 - 8:00 pm
    Hosted by Pete Murray
    NB The show's chart run down would now be based on a combined New Musical Express / Melody Maker / Record Retailer chart. The show had previously used the Disc & Music Echo chart.
    Link to website:
    http://www.tvpopdiaries.co.uk/1967.html

    The Disc paper at this time stop doing their own chart and used Melody Maker's instead.

    Leave a comment:


  • MrTibbs
    replied
    I hear what you all say guys and totally respect your views, but, I want to keep the Ultimate Chart true to its original roots, the main and consistent charts of the day. Adding others just for information detracts from the focus of the thread. All the other charts were transitory coming and going in a short period time. I'm not saying they were not interesting, all charts to me are as a chart freak, but I want to keep the thread focused and not diluted.

    Your comments are always welcome and interesting though so keep them coming. On that subject it would be good to hear your views on the charts I post.

    Brian

    Leave a comment:


  • Splodj
    replied
    At this time the Radio London chart was compiled by the senior dj.

    Kenny Everett told the story of when he was disappointed not to see 'Concrete and Clay' in the chart. In those early pre-payola months the senior dj Tony Windsor had a policy of compiling the chart in private to avoid lobbying from djs who may have been paid to promote certain records. Everett begged him to listen to the record again and reconsider, and the chart was changed so that it entered at 31 - as shown in Graham's post above. Of course we will never know how it would have fared without this promotion.

    In a later interview Windsor said that he was proud of his predictive abilities and claimed he missed only two number ones. The first was 'Where are you now (my love)?' which he put up to 2 and then had fall, and was too embarrassed to put back up to 1. The other was 'Tears' which he said he didn't like. However I think he also missed others that he forgot.

    Due to the arbitrary nature of the pirate charts I do not think they should be displayed with the Ultimate. But in 1966 I did enjoy seeing them in Music Echo which, together with their own 100 and the USA listings, made them the chartiest music paper!

    Leave a comment:


  • MrTibbs
    replied
    Greetings Pop Pickers ! I've been working again today but here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart Top 30 for Week Ending 20th February 1965.

    Was the Radio London chart based on airplay ?


    The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending February 20th 1965 BBC NME MM Disc RR Total
    Last This The Sound Survey Chart Chart Chart Chart Chart Points
    Week Week The Top 30 Singles Chart Number Of Chart Positions 30 Scored
    4 1 I'll Never Find Another You - The Seekers 1 1 1 1 2 18965
    1 2 Tired Of Waiting For You - The Kinks 2 2 2 2 1 18500
    2 3 You've Lost That Lovin' Feelin' - The Righteous Brothers 3 3 3 3 3 17780
    3 4 Keep Searchin' - Del Shannon 5 5 4 5 4 16845
    9 5 The Game Of Love - Wayne Fontana and The Mindbenders 4 4 5 4 5 16810
    10 6 Don't Let Me Me Misunderstood - The Animals 6 6 6 6 6 15875
    7 7 The Special Years - Val Doonican 7 7 7 7 7 15240
    13 8 Funny How Love Can Be - The Ivy League 8 8 8 8 9 14520
    6 9 Come Tomorrow - Manfred Mann 9 11 9 9 8 13655
    16 10 It Hurts So Much - Jim Reeves 10 9 10 10 11 13450
    5 11 Go Now - The Moody Blues 11 12 11 11 10 12585
    8 12 Cast Your Fate To The Wind - Sounds Orchestral 12 14 12 12 12 11665
    30 13 Goodnight - Roy Orbison 13 13 15 14 17 10490
    24 14 It's Not Unusual - Tom Jones 14 10 18 13 19 10270
    14 15 Leader Of The Pack - The Shangri-Las 15 18 14 15 14 9895
    21 16 Yes I Will - The Hollies 16 16 16 17 15 9510
    11 17 You've Lost That Lovin' Feelin' - Cilla Black 17 20 13 19 13 9430
    12 18 Baby Please Don't Go - Them 18 19 17 18 16 8475
    NEW 19 I Must Be Seeing Things - Gene Pitney 19 15 19 16 24 8295
    28 20 Mary Anne - The Shadows 20 17 23 20 25 6410
    15 21 Terry - Twinkle 23= 26 20 25 22 5115
    19 22 Ferry Cross The Mersey - Gerry and The Pacemakers 21 27 22 22 18 5055
    NEW 23 Come And Stay With Me - Marianne Faithfull 23= 21 25 21 26 4925
    20 24 I'm Lost Without You - Billy Fury 22 24 24 23 20 4885
    17 25 The Three Bells - Brian Poole and The Tremeloes 25 29 21 28 23 3880
    NEW 26 Silhouettes - Herman's Hermits 27 22 27 24 3500
    18 27 Yeh Yeh - Georgie Fame and The Blue Flames 26 28 28 26 21 2700
    23 28 What In The World's Come Over You - The Rockin' Berries 28 30 26 28 1705
    NEW 29 I'll Stop At Nothing - Sandie Shaw 29 23 1600
    NEW 30 Honey I Need - The Pretty Things 30= 25 1200
    Stop Feeling Sorry For Yourself - Adam Faith 30= 29 27 900
    Dance Dance Dance - The Beach Boys 27 340
    A Windmill On Old Amsterdam - Ronnie Hilton 30 30 335
    Golden Lights - Twinkle 30 200
    Your Hurtin' Kinda Love - Dusty Springfield 29 200
    Somewhere - P J Proby 29 170
    Paper Tiger - Sue Thompson 30 100

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  • Graham76man
    replied
    There's no chance of the Caroline charts till September 1965.
    But the Radio London is good
    Here's the chart after Mr Tibs last chart you can compare with the next one.
    Sunday 14th Feb 1965
    2 1 Tired Of Waiting For You Kinks
    7 2 I'll Never Find Another You Seekers
    4 3 Keep Searchin' (We'll Follow The Sun) Del Shannon
    9 4 The Game Of Love Wayne Fontana & the Mindbenders
    23 5 Don't Let Me Be Misunderstood Animals
    8 6 The Special Years Val Doonican
    1 7 Come Tomorrow Manfred Mann
    16 8 Funny How Love Can Be Ivy League
    29 9 It's Not Unusual Tom Jones
    24 10 It Hurts So Much Jim Reeves
    3 11 You've Lost That Lovin' Feelin' Righteous Brothers
    27 12 Stop Feeling Sorry For Yourself Adam Faith
    6 13 Baby Please Don't Go Them
    18 14 Yes I Will Hollies
    14 15 Come See About Me Supremes
    37 16 I Must Be Seeing Things Gene Pitney
    10 17 Go Now! Moody Blues
    – 18 Your Hurtin' Kinda Love Dusty Springfield
    – 19 Goodnight Roy Orbison
    – 20 Mary Anne Shadows
    28 21 The Name Game Shirley Ellis
    40 22 Hawaii Tattoo Waikikis
    31 23 The 'In' Crowd Dobie Gray
    – 24 Silhouettes Herman's Hermits
    5 25 Leader Of The Pack Shangri-Las
    – 26 I'll Stop At Nothing Sandie Shaw
    21 27 Paper Tiger Sue Thompson
    35 28 Let The Sunshine In Peddlers / Presidents
    – 29 I Cry Alone Jackie Lee
    12 30 Getting Mighty Crowded Betty Everett
    – 31 Concrete And Clay Unit 4 + 2
    13 32 Promised Land Chuck Berry
    38 33 Last Time You'll Walk Out On Me Mike Hurst
    – 34 Come And Stay With Me Marianne Faithfull
    25 35 What In The World's Come Over You Rockin' Berries
    36 36 Shake Sam Cooke
    – 37 Tell Her No Zombies
    – 38 Diggin' My Potatoes Heinz
    – 39 Can't You Hear My Heartbeat Goldie & the Gingerbreads
    – 40 Hold What You've Got Joe Tex


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  • membranemusic
    replied
    Hello
    MrTibbs keep on keeping on – this is fascinating.

    A suggestion, as we are now in the pirate radio era: can you list either the Radio London or Radio Caroline chart positions for the relevant chart week? – not, I hasten to add, to include within the calculation of the Re-Imagined Chart, but by way of comparison. By spring of ’65, I contend they were possibly influencing the public’s buying habits, and speeding up the sales chart.

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