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The Ultimate Averaged Chart - The BBC Chart Re-Imagined

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  • MrTibbs
    replied
    Greetings Pop Pickers ! Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart Top 30 for Week Ending 3rd April 1965.

    The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending April 3rd 1965 NME MM DISC RR Total
    Last This The Sound Survey Stores 200 250 100 85 Points
    Week Week The Top 30 Singles Chart BBC TOP 30 Scored
    1 1 The Last Time - The Rolling Stones 1 1 1 1 1 19050
    7 2 Concrete And Clay - Unit 4 + 2 2 2 2 2 2 18415
    9 3 The Minute You're Gone - Cliff Richard 3 3 3 3 6 17525
    13 4 For Your Love - The Yardbirds 4 4 4 4 5 17060
    2 5 It's Not Unusual - Tom Jones 5 5 8 5 3 15930
    3 6 Silhouettes - Herman's Hermits 7 6 6 6 9 15620
    4 7 Goodbye My Love - The Searchers 6 8 7 7 4 15295
    16 8 Catch The Wind - Donovan 8 9 5 9 7 15140
    5 9 Come And Stay With Me - Marianne Faithfull 9 7 9 8 8 14555
    6 10 I'll Never Find Another You - The Seekers 10 11 10 10 10 13135
    8 11 I'll Stop At Nothing - Sandie Shaw 11 13 12 12 11 11950
    25 12 The Times They Are A-Changin' - Bob Dylan 12= 10 13 13 15 11860
    17 13 I Can't Explain - The Who 12= 14 11 14 12 11715
    27 14 Here Comes The Night - Them 14 12 15 11 14 11245
    19 15 You're Breaking My Heart - Keely Smith 15 15 19 15 16 9075
    10 16 I Must Be Seeing Things - Gene Pitney 16 23 14 17 13 8780
    NEW 17 I'll Be There - Gerry and The Pacemakers 17 17 18 16 19 8570
    NEW 18 Stop In The Name Of Love - The Supremes 19 16 21 19 23 7380
    11 19 Yes I Will - The Hollies 18 24 17 20 17 7190
    18 20 I Know A Place - Petula Clark 20 25 16 22 18 6955
    12 21 Honey I Need - The Pretty Things 21 18 23 18 25 6410
    NEW 22 Little Things - Dave Berry 22 19 22 24 26 5775
    14 23 I Apologise - P J Proby 23 20 23 20 4485
    NEW 24 Reelin' And Rockin' - The Dave Clark Five 25 22 26 25 27 3990
    NEW 25 Everybody's Gonna Be Happy - The Kinks 24 21 28 21 29 3920
    22 26 Do The Clam - Elvis Presley 26 29 24 27 22 3315
    15 27 The Game Of Love - Wayne Fontana and The Mindbenders 27 25 29 21 2550
    NEW 28 I Don't Want To Go On Without You - The Moody Blues 28 20 28 2500
    NEW 29 Pop Go The Workers - The Barron Knights 29 26 30 26 1750
    24 30 The Special Years - Val Doonican 30 27 24 1595
    In The Meantime - Georgie Fame and The Blue Flames 28 30 28 955
    Nowhere To Run - Martha and The Vandellas 27 800
    Goodnight - Roy Orbison 29 500
    King Of The Road - Roger Miller 30 200
    Hawaiian Wedding Song - Julie Rogers 30 200
    Don't Let Me Be Misunderstood - The Animals 30 85

    Leave a comment:


  • trebor
    replied
    Good to see the BBC #2 and #4 ties broken!

    Leave a comment:


  • MrTibbs
    replied
    Greetings Pop Pickers ! Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart Top 30 for Week Ending 27th March 1965.

    The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending March 27th 1965 NME MM DISC RR Total
    Last This The Sound Survey Stores 200 250 100 85 Points
    Week Week The Top 30 Singles Chart BBC TOP 30 Scored
    1 1 The Last Time - The Rolling Stones 1 1 1 1 1 19050
    2 2 It's Not Unusual - Tom Jones 2= 3 2 3 2 18115
    3 3 Silhouettes - Herman's Hermits 2= 2 3 2 3 18080
    7 4 Goodbye My Love - The Searchers 4= 5 4 5 5 16760
    4 5 Come And Stay With Me - Marianne Faithfull 4= 4 7 4 4 16395
    5 6 I'll Never Find Another You - The Seekers 6 6 6 6 6 15875
    14 7 Concrete And Clay - Unit 4 + 2 7 7 5 8 8 15555
    6 8 I'll Stop At Nothing - Sandie Shaw 8 8 8 7 7 14790
    20 9 The Minute You're Gone - Cliff Richard 9 9 10 10 10 13535
    8 10 I Must Be Seeing Things - Gene Pitney 10 14 9 9 9 12970
    10 11 Yes I Will - The Hollies 11 13 11 12 11 12200
    12 12 Honey I Need - The Pretty Things 14 10 12 17 18 11455
    28 13 For Your Love - The Yardbirds 12 12 16 11 13 11080
    11 14 I Apologise - P J Proby 13 17 13 14 12 10615
    9 15 The Game Of Love - Wayne Fontana and The Mindbenders 15 15 14 15 14 10495
    NEW 16 Catch The Wind - Donovan 16 11 15 16 22 10265
    23 17 I Can't Explain - The Who 17 18 17 18 15 8760
    18 18 I Know A Place - Petula Clark 18 19 19 19 17 7790
    24 19 You're Breaking My Heart - Keely Smith 19 16 24 13 23 7230
    13 20 Don't Let Me Be Misunderstood - The Animals 20 23 21 20 19 6220
    19 21 In The Meantime - Georgie Fame and The Blue Flames 22 20 22 22 24 5945
    22 22 Do The Clam - Elvis Presley 21 22 23 21 20 5735
    15 23 Goodnight - Roy Orbison 23 18 23 21 4900
    17 24 The Special Years - Val Doonican 24 20 28 16 4325
    NEW 25 The Times They Are A-Changin' - Bob Dylan 25 21 25 2600
    16 26 Funny How Love Can Be - The Ivy League 26 25 26 1925
    NEW 27 Here Comes The Night - Them 25 26 1700
    29 28 She's Lost You - The Zephyrs 23 1600
    21 29 Mary Anne - The Shadows 28= 26 27 1590
    25 30 A Windmill In Old Amsterdam - Ronnie Hilton 27 27 25 1510
    Stop In The Name Of Love - The Supremes 25 30 1300
    Reelin' And Rockin' - The Dave Clark Five 30 30 29 29 28 1155
    I'll Be There - Gerry and The Pacemakers 28= 29 24 1100
    Golden Lights - Twinkle 28 30 835
    Find My Way Back Home - The Nashville Teens 27 800
    Little Things - Dave Berry 28 600
    It Hurts So Much - Jim Reeves 30 29 420
    King Of The Road - Roger Miller 27 400

    Leave a comment:


  • MrTibbs
    replied
    Greetings Pop Pickers ! Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart Top 30 for Week Ending 20th March 1965.

    The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending March 20th 1965 NME MM DISC RR Total
    Last This The Sound Survey Stores 200 250 100 85 Points
    Week Week The Top 30 Singles Chart BBC TOP 30 Scored
    1 1 The Last Time - The Rolling Stones 1 1 1 1 1 19050
    2 2 It's Not Unusual - Tom Jones 2 2 2 2 2 18415
    4 3 Silhouettes - Herman's Hermits 3 3 3 3 3 17780
    6 4 Come And Stay With Me - Marianne Faithfull 4= 5 4 4 5 16860
    3 5 I'll Never Find Another You - The Seekers 4= 4 5 5 4 16795
    5 6 I'll Stop At Nothing - Sandie Shaw 6 6 6 6 8 15705
    12 7 Goodbye My Love - The Searchers 7 7 7 7 6 15325
    8 8 I Must Be Seeing Things - Gene Pitney 8 9 8 8 7 14490
    7 9 The Game Of Love - Wayne Fontana and The Mindbenders 9 8 9 9 10 14085
    10 10 Yes I Will - The Hollies 10 10 10 10 9 13420
    14 11 I Apologise - P J Proby 11 12 11 13 11 12300
    16 12 Honey I Need - The Pretty Things 12 11 12 12 13 12180
    9 13 Don't Let Me Be Misunderstood - The Animals 13 13 13 11 12 11715
    23 14 Concrete And Clay - Unit 4 + 2 15 14 16 15 18 9855
    15 15 Goodnight - Roy Orbison 14 20 14 14 14 9595
    11 16 Funny How Love Can Be - The Ivy League 16= 22 15 18 17 8290
    13 17 The Special Years - Val Doonican 16= 21 17 19 15 8060
    25 18 I Know A Place - Petula Clark 19 16 18 22 21 8000
    19 19 In The Meantime - Georgie Fame and The Blue Flames 18 17 20 17 22 7715
    NEW 20 The Minute You're Gone - Cliff Richard 20 15 21 16 26 7625
    20 21 Mary Anne - The Shadows 21 25 19 20 20 6235
    NEW 22 Do The Clam - Elvis Presley 22 19 26 23 19 5470
    29 23 I Can't Explain - The Who 23 23 25 21 23 4780
    27 24 You're Breaking My Heart - Keely Smith 26 17 29 24 4000
    26 25 A Windmill In Old Amsterdam - Ronnie Hilton 24= 27 23 26 24 3895
    17 26 It Hurts So Much - Jim Reeves 24= 22 16 3525
    18 27 Tired Of Waiting For You - The Kinks 27 24 25 2260
    NEW 28 For Your Love - The Yardbirds 28 26 25 1600
    30 29 She's Lost You - The Zephyrs 30 24 1400
    22 30 Golden Lights - Twinkle 29 28 29 28 1205
    Keep Searchin' - Del Shannon 27 29 1170
    Catch The Wind - Donovan 29 28 700
    Reelin' And Rockin' - The Dave Clark Five 30 27 30 685
    I Don't Want To Go On Without You - The Moody Blues 28 600
    The 'In' Crowd - Dobie Gray 30 27 590
    King Of The Road - Roger Miller 30 100

    Leave a comment:


  • MrTibbs
    replied
    That sounds like a plan Robin, I will include that info from the next chart to be posted shortly.

    I am usually a few compiled charts ahead of posting in order that I can post daily. To intrigue you in advance, in a few weeks time for the first time the No 1 single is going to differ from that compiled by the BBC !!

    Leave a comment:


  • RokinRobinOfLocksley
    replied
    Another week where the BBC invoked their #1 rule (because of Record Retailer being out of kilter), but Brian didn't have to...

    Brian a thought: how about adding your # of dealers to the table, like under NME put 200, MM 250, Disc 100, RR 85? Cheerz!
    Last edited by RokinRobinOfLocksley; Sat July 18, 2020, 15:34.

    Leave a comment:


  • MrTibbs
    replied
    Greetings Pop Pickers ! Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart Top 30 for Week Ending 13th March 1965.

    The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending March 13th 1965 BBC NME MM DISC RR Total
    Last This The Sound Survey Chart Chart Chart Chart Chart Points
    Week Week The Top 30 Singles Chart Number Of Chart Positions 30 Scored
    16 1 The Last Time - The Rolling Stones 1 1 1 1 6 18625
    1 2 It's Not Unusual - Tom Jones 2 2 2 2 1 18500
    2 3 I'll Never Find Another You - The Seekers 3 3 4 3 2 17615
    4 4 Silhouettes - Herman's Hermits 4 4 3 4 3 17480
    7 5 I'll Stop At Nothing - Sandie Shaw 5 5 5 5 4 16595
    8 6 Come And Stay With Me - Marianne Faithfull 6 7 6 6 7 15590
    3 7 The Game Of Love - Wayne Fontana and The Mindbenders 7 6 8 8 5 15260
    6 8 I Must Be Seeing Things - Gene Pitney 8 9 7 7 9 14670
    5 9 Don't Let Me Be Misunderstood - The Animals 9 8 11 10 8 13655
    11 10 Yes I Will - The Hollies 10 11 9 9 10 13485
    9 11 Funny How Love Can Be - The Ivy League 11 12 10 11 11 12750
    30 12 Goodbye My Love - The Searchers 12 10 15 12 13 11630
    10 13 The Special Years - Val Doonican 13 15 13 13 12 11115
    18 14 I Apologise - P J Proby 15 13 14 15 16 10725
    14 15 Goodnight - Roy Orbison 14 17 12 14 14 10695
    20 16 Honey I Need - The Pretty Things 16 14 19 16 19 8920
    13 17 It Hurts So Much - Jim Reeves 17 18 17 17 17 8690
    12 18 Tired Of Waiting For You - The Kinks 18 20 18 19 15 8010
    22 19 In The Meantime - Georgie Fame and The Blue Flames 19 16 20 18 24 7645
    19 20 Mary Anne - The Shadows 20 20 21 20 18 6905
    17 21 Keep Searchin' - Del Shannon 21 16 21 20 5685
    21 22 Golden Lights - Twinkle 22 26 23 26 21 4350
    25 23 Concrete And Clay - Unit 4 + 2 23= 22 25 24 27 4340
    15 24 You've Lost That Lovin' Feelin' - The Righteous Brothers 23= 22 23 22 3815
    NEW 25 I Know A Place - Petula Clark 25 24 26 27 30 3135
    23 26 A Windmill In Old Amsterdam - Ronnie Hilton 26= 24 30 23 2530
    NEW 27 You're Breaking My Heart - Keely Smith 19 2400
    NEW 28 The 'In' Crowd - Dobie Gray 26= 27 28 28 25 2360
    28 29 I Can't Explain - The Who 28 27 25 26 2025
    NEW 30 She's Lost You - The Zephyrs 30= 23 1600
    Do The Clam - Elvis Presley 29 28 22 1500
    The Minute You're Gone - Cliff Richard 30= 25 29 1400
    Cast Your Fate To The Wind - Sounds Orchestral 29 500
    I Don't Want To Go On Without You - The Moody Blues 29 400
    Stop Feeling Sorry For Yourself - Adam Faith 28 255
    Can't You Hear My Heartbeat - Goldie and The Gingerbreads 30 250
    For Your Love - The Yardbirds 30 200
    Come Tomorrow - Manfred Mann 29 170

    Leave a comment:


  • MrTibbs
    replied
    I think Radios Caroline and London played their part in bringing future hits to buyers attention but I think Radio Luxembourg played an even bigger part albeit they were a nights only service. Throughout the sixties it was Luxembourg myself and friends tuned into and every Sunday night I was in bed under the covers pretending I was sleeping listening to Luxembourgs Top 20 on my tiny transistor radio moving it around in frustration as the signal faded in and out.

    Leave a comment:


  • MrTibbs
    replied
    Greetings Pop Pickers ! Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart Top 30 for Week Ending 6th March 1965.

    The BBC made a mistake this week miscalculating Jim Reeves when his chart place should have been higher. I have not corrected the BBC Chart. It is posted as it was at the time.

    The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending March 6th 1965 BBC NME MM Disc RR Total
    Last This The Sound Survey Chart Chart Chart Chart Chart Points
    Week Week The Top 30 Singles Chart Number Of Chart Positions 30 Scored
    3 1 It's Not Unusual - Tom Jones 1 1 1 1 2 18965
    1 2 I'll Never Find Another You - The Seekers 2 2 2 2 1 18500
    2 3 The Game Of Love - Wayne Fontana and The Mindbenders 3 4 3 3 3 17580
    11 4 Silhouettes - Herman's Hermits 4 3 4 4 4 17345
    4 5 Don't Let Me Be Misunderstood - The Animals 5 6 5 5 5 16310
    10 6 I Must Be Seeing Things - Gene Pitney 6 7 6 6 6 15675
    16 7 I'll Stop At Nothing - Sandie Shaw 7 5 7 7 11 15300
    14 8 Come And Stay With Me - Marianne Faithfull 8 9 8 8 9 14320
    7 9 Funny How Love Can Be - The Ivy League 9 10 9 9 8 13855
    6 10 The Special Years - Val Doonican 10 12 10 11 7 13090
    13 11 Yes I Will - The Hollies 11 11 11 10 14 12545
    5 12 Tired Of Waiting For You - The Kinks 12 14 12 12 10 11835
    12 13 It Hurts So Much - Jim Reeves 21 15 16 16 12 10065
    15 14 Goodnight - Roy Orbison 13 16 15 15 15 9960
    8 15 You've Lost That Lovin' Feelin' - The Righteous Brothers 14 20 14 14 13 9680
    NEW 16 The Last Time - The Rolling Stones 18 8 17 17 9500
    9 17 Keep Searchin' - Del Shannon 15 22 13 13 16 9375
    25 18 I Apologise - P J Proby 16 13 19 19 18 8905
    19 19 Mary Anne - The Shadows 17 17 18 18 17 8540
    27 20 Honey I Need - The Pretty Things 19 18 20 20 21 7300
    24 21 Golden Lights - Twinkle 20 21 22 21 22 6015
    NEW 22 In The Meantime - Georgie Fame and The Blue Flames 24 19 25 23 4700
    28 23 A Windmill In Old Amsterdam - Ronnie Hilton 23 25 23 24 24 4495
    17 24 Come Tomorrow - Manfred Mann 22 21 22 19 4420
    NEW 25 Concrete And Clay - Unit 4 + 2 25 23 27 25 3200
    18 26 Cast Your Fate To The Wind - Sounds Orchestral 26 24 20 2685
    22 27 Stop Feeling Sorry For Yourself - Adam Faith 27 30 28 28 23 1930
    NEW 28 I Can't Explain - The Who 28= 26 30 26 1750
    20 29 Go Now - The Moody Blues 30 26 27 1590
    NEW 30 Goodbye My Love - The Searchers 24 1400
    Can't You Hear My Heartbeat - Goldie and The Gingerbreads 28= 28 29 25 1310
    The 'In' Crowd - Dobie Gray 26 28 1255
    Leader Of The Pack - The Shangri-Las 29 30 26 1025
    Digging My Potatoes - Heinz 29 400
    Hawaii Tattoo - The Waikikis 27 400
    Someone Must Have Hurt You A Lot - Frankie Vaughan 30 200
    Baby Please Don't Go - Them 29 170
    Paper Tiger - Sue Thompson 30 85

    Leave a comment:


  • MrTibbs
    replied
    Greetings Pop Pickers ! Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart Top 30 for Week Ending 27th February 1965.

    The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending February 27th 1965 BBC NME MM Disc RR Total
    Last This The Sound Survey Chart Chart Chart Chart Chart Points
    Week Week The Top 30 Singles Chart Number Of Chart Positions 30 Scored
    1 1 I'LL Never Find Another You - The Seekers 1 1 1 1 1 19050
    5 2 The Game Of Love - Wayne Fontana and The Mindbenders 2 3 2 2 2 18215
    14 3 It's Not Unusual - Tom Jones 4 2 3 3 10 17385
    6 4 Don't Let Me Be Misunderstood - The Animals 3 4 4 4 3 17230
    2 5 Tired Of Waiting For You - The Kinks 5 5 5 5 5 16510
    7 6 The Special Years - Val Doonican 6 7 6 6 7 15590
    8 7 Funny How Love Can Be - The Ivy League 8 6 7 8 9 15170
    3 8 You've Lost That Lovin' Feelin' - The Righteous Brothers 7 9 8 7 4 14845
    4 9 Keep Searchin' - Del Shannon 9 11 9 9 6 13825
    19 10 I Must Be Seeing Things - Gene Pitney 10 8 11 10 11 13400
    26 11 Silhouettes - Herman's Hermits 11 10 13 11 13 12230
    10 12 It Hurts So Much - Jim Reeves 12 13 12 14 8 12005
    16 13 Yes I Will - The Hollies 13 16 10 13 12 11665
    23 14 Come And Stay With Me - Marianne Faithfull 14 12 14 12 15 11310
    13 15 Goodnight - Roy Orbison 15 15 15 16 14 10145
    29 16 I'll Stop At Nothing - Sandie Shaw 16 14 16 15 17 9940
    9 17 Come Tomorrow - Manfred Mann 17 17 17 17 16 8975
    12 18 Cast Your Fate To The Wind - Sounds Orchestral 18 21 18 18 19 7570
    20 19 Mary Anne - The Shadows 19 19 19 19 20 7535
    11 20 Go Now - The Moody Blues 20 20 20 20 18 7155
    15 21 Leader Of The Pack - The Shangri-Las 21 22 21 21 23 5980
    NEW 22 Stop Feeling Sorry For Yourself - Adam Faith 22 24 23 24 24 4695
    18 23 Baby Please Don't Go - Them 23 22 23 21 3900
    NEW 24 Golden Lights - Twinkle 24 24 26 22 3550
    NEW 25 I Apologise - P J Proby 25 22 27 27 3200
    17 26 You've Lost That Lovin' Feelin' - Cilla Black 27 25 25 22 2865
    30 27 Honey I Need - The Pretty Things 26 18 30 2700
    NEW 28 A Windmill In Old Amsterdam - Ronnie Hilton 28= 24 29 1920
    NEW 29 Your Hurtin' Kinda Love - Dusty Springfield 30= 26 28 1300
    22 30 Ferry Cross The Mersey - Gerry and The Pacemakers 28= 28 25 1260
    I Can't Explain - The Who 30= 28 26 1100
    The 'In' Crowd - Dobie Gray 27 800
    Terry - Twinkle 29 28 755
    I'm Lost Without You - Billy Fury 30 26 675
    Can't You Hear My Heartbeat - Goldie and The Gingerbreads 29 29 600
    Yeh Yeh - Georgie Fame and The Blue Flames 27 340
    Paper Tiger - Sue Thompson 30 200
    The Three Bells - Brian Poole and The Tremeloes 30 85

    Leave a comment:


  • MrTibbs
    replied
    Yeah Graham, considering it takes around 1.5 hours per chart as it is, and I work 2 days a week again after I retired, it will take months as it is to work through all the years, as I eventually want to cover every chart from 1956 when MM joined RM and NME, until Feb 1969, and hopefully go beyond that too to show how an averaged chart would have looked in comparison to BMRB's attempt.

    Leave a comment:


  • Graham76man
    replied
    Interestingly enough Record Retailer itself did some comparison charts with their chart and all the pirate stations. These can be found on the sites what cover the pirate stations.

    I agree with you Brian it would make the thing messy as well as lots more work to do!

    I also came upon this in the TV Pop Diaries website. A great site if you want to see what pop music was on TV any year.

    Thursday 24th August 1967
    BBC1 Top Of The Pops 7:30 - 8:00 pm
    Hosted by Pete Murray
    NB The show's chart run down would now be based on a combined New Musical Express / Melody Maker / Record Retailer chart. The show had previously used the Disc & Music Echo chart.
    Link to website:
    http://www.tvpopdiaries.co.uk/1967.html

    The Disc paper at this time stop doing their own chart and used Melody Maker's instead.

    Leave a comment:


  • MrTibbs
    replied
    I hear what you all say guys and totally respect your views, but, I want to keep the Ultimate Chart true to its original roots, the main and consistent charts of the day. Adding others just for information detracts from the focus of the thread. All the other charts were transitory coming and going in a short period time. I'm not saying they were not interesting, all charts to me are as a chart freak, but I want to keep the thread focused and not diluted.

    Your comments are always welcome and interesting though so keep them coming. On that subject it would be good to hear your views on the charts I post.

    Brian

    Leave a comment:


  • Splodj
    replied
    At this time the Radio London chart was compiled by the senior dj.

    Kenny Everett told the story of when he was disappointed not to see 'Concrete and Clay' in the chart. In those early pre-payola months the senior dj Tony Windsor had a policy of compiling the chart in private to avoid lobbying from djs who may have been paid to promote certain records. Everett begged him to listen to the record again and reconsider, and the chart was changed so that it entered at 31 - as shown in Graham's post above. Of course we will never know how it would have fared without this promotion.

    In a later interview Windsor said that he was proud of his predictive abilities and claimed he missed only two number ones. The first was 'Where are you now (my love)?' which he put up to 2 and then had fall, and was too embarrassed to put back up to 1. The other was 'Tears' which he said he didn't like. However I think he also missed others that he forgot.

    Due to the arbitrary nature of the pirate charts I do not think they should be displayed with the Ultimate. But in 1966 I did enjoy seeing them in Music Echo which, together with their own 100 and the USA listings, made them the chartiest music paper!

    Leave a comment:


  • MrTibbs
    replied
    Greetings Pop Pickers ! I've been working again today but here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart Top 30 for Week Ending 20th February 1965.

    Was the Radio London chart based on airplay ?


    The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending February 20th 1965 BBC NME MM Disc RR Total
    Last This The Sound Survey Chart Chart Chart Chart Chart Points
    Week Week The Top 30 Singles Chart Number Of Chart Positions 30 Scored
    4 1 I'll Never Find Another You - The Seekers 1 1 1 1 2 18965
    1 2 Tired Of Waiting For You - The Kinks 2 2 2 2 1 18500
    2 3 You've Lost That Lovin' Feelin' - The Righteous Brothers 3 3 3 3 3 17780
    3 4 Keep Searchin' - Del Shannon 5 5 4 5 4 16845
    9 5 The Game Of Love - Wayne Fontana and The Mindbenders 4 4 5 4 5 16810
    10 6 Don't Let Me Me Misunderstood - The Animals 6 6 6 6 6 15875
    7 7 The Special Years - Val Doonican 7 7 7 7 7 15240
    13 8 Funny How Love Can Be - The Ivy League 8 8 8 8 9 14520
    6 9 Come Tomorrow - Manfred Mann 9 11 9 9 8 13655
    16 10 It Hurts So Much - Jim Reeves 10 9 10 10 11 13450
    5 11 Go Now - The Moody Blues 11 12 11 11 10 12585
    8 12 Cast Your Fate To The Wind - Sounds Orchestral 12 14 12 12 12 11665
    30 13 Goodnight - Roy Orbison 13 13 15 14 17 10490
    24 14 It's Not Unusual - Tom Jones 14 10 18 13 19 10270
    14 15 Leader Of The Pack - The Shangri-Las 15 18 14 15 14 9895
    21 16 Yes I Will - The Hollies 16 16 16 17 15 9510
    11 17 You've Lost That Lovin' Feelin' - Cilla Black 17 20 13 19 13 9430
    12 18 Baby Please Don't Go - Them 18 19 17 18 16 8475
    NEW 19 I Must Be Seeing Things - Gene Pitney 19 15 19 16 24 8295
    28 20 Mary Anne - The Shadows 20 17 23 20 25 6410
    15 21 Terry - Twinkle 23= 26 20 25 22 5115
    19 22 Ferry Cross The Mersey - Gerry and The Pacemakers 21 27 22 22 18 5055
    NEW 23 Come And Stay With Me - Marianne Faithfull 23= 21 25 21 26 4925
    20 24 I'm Lost Without You - Billy Fury 22 24 24 23 20 4885
    17 25 The Three Bells - Brian Poole and The Tremeloes 25 29 21 28 23 3880
    NEW 26 Silhouettes - Herman's Hermits 27 22 27 24 3500
    18 27 Yeh Yeh - Georgie Fame and The Blue Flames 26 28 28 26 21 2700
    23 28 What In The World's Come Over You - The Rockin' Berries 28 30 26 28 1705
    NEW 29 I'll Stop At Nothing - Sandie Shaw 29 23 1600
    NEW 30 Honey I Need - The Pretty Things 30= 25 1200
    Stop Feeling Sorry For Yourself - Adam Faith 30= 29 27 900
    Dance Dance Dance - The Beach Boys 27 340
    A Windmill On Old Amsterdam - Ronnie Hilton 30 30 335
    Golden Lights - Twinkle 30 200
    Your Hurtin' Kinda Love - Dusty Springfield 29 200
    Somewhere - P J Proby 29 170
    Paper Tiger - Sue Thompson 30 100

    Leave a comment:


  • Graham76man
    replied
    There's no chance of the Caroline charts till September 1965.
    But the Radio London is good
    Here's the chart after Mr Tibs last chart you can compare with the next one.
    Sunday 14th Feb 1965
    2 1 Tired Of Waiting For You Kinks
    7 2 I'll Never Find Another You Seekers
    4 3 Keep Searchin' (We'll Follow The Sun) Del Shannon
    9 4 The Game Of Love Wayne Fontana & the Mindbenders
    23 5 Don't Let Me Be Misunderstood Animals
    8 6 The Special Years Val Doonican
    1 7 Come Tomorrow Manfred Mann
    16 8 Funny How Love Can Be Ivy League
    29 9 It's Not Unusual Tom Jones
    24 10 It Hurts So Much Jim Reeves
    3 11 You've Lost That Lovin' Feelin' Righteous Brothers
    27 12 Stop Feeling Sorry For Yourself Adam Faith
    6 13 Baby Please Don't Go Them
    18 14 Yes I Will Hollies
    14 15 Come See About Me Supremes
    37 16 I Must Be Seeing Things Gene Pitney
    10 17 Go Now! Moody Blues
    – 18 Your Hurtin' Kinda Love Dusty Springfield
    – 19 Goodnight Roy Orbison
    – 20 Mary Anne Shadows
    28 21 The Name Game Shirley Ellis
    40 22 Hawaii Tattoo Waikikis
    31 23 The 'In' Crowd Dobie Gray
    – 24 Silhouettes Herman's Hermits
    5 25 Leader Of The Pack Shangri-Las
    – 26 I'll Stop At Nothing Sandie Shaw
    21 27 Paper Tiger Sue Thompson
    35 28 Let The Sunshine In Peddlers / Presidents
    – 29 I Cry Alone Jackie Lee
    12 30 Getting Mighty Crowded Betty Everett
    – 31 Concrete And Clay Unit 4 + 2
    13 32 Promised Land Chuck Berry
    38 33 Last Time You'll Walk Out On Me Mike Hurst
    – 34 Come And Stay With Me Marianne Faithfull
    25 35 What In The World's Come Over You Rockin' Berries
    36 36 Shake Sam Cooke
    – 37 Tell Her No Zombies
    – 38 Diggin' My Potatoes Heinz
    – 39 Can't You Hear My Heartbeat Goldie & the Gingerbreads
    – 40 Hold What You've Got Joe Tex


    Leave a comment:


  • membranemusic
    replied
    Hello
    MrTibbs keep on keeping on – this is fascinating.

    A suggestion, as we are now in the pirate radio era: can you list either the Radio London or Radio Caroline chart positions for the relevant chart week? – not, I hasten to add, to include within the calculation of the Re-Imagined Chart, but by way of comparison. By spring of ’65, I contend they were possibly influencing the public’s buying habits, and speeding up the sales chart.

    Leave a comment:


  • Graham76man
    replied
    Originally posted by setg1 View Post
    The only Ruby and the Romantics song I could find appearing on the Record Retailer chart was "Our Day Will Come".

    https://www.officialcharts.com/artis...the-romantics/

    Your post mentioned another one of their songs, which was also the record I was talking about. According to the OCC database, that one only charted in later versions by the Marvelettes and the Flying Pickets.



    http://www.45cat.com/record/hlr9935

    It does have 10 owners on 45cat (more than on Discogs), though it's impossible to say exactly which version they own (since 45cat combines the promo single and the commercially released one into the same listing).

    Edit: MrTibbs : That's right, I hadn't seen your post before I sent my reply.
    Your both right I was getting the record mixed up.
    The Real Chart doesn't deal in labels, so any imports are included in the sales. That's why there's a lot re-entries in it. I don't always know why a record with these modest levels turn into big hits on the Chart. It's often down to them being featured on a TV show. Sometimes it's being on the US charts. Nearly all the Music Papers carried some part of one of them. I suspect this one might have been on the Pirate charts and airplay. I don't know for certain, since the early charts for 1964 are missing.
    The only time I know that any record is an import is when it never got released in the UK. The earliest one of them is Frankie Laine - Mule Train in 1950, which even spent a single week at the the top. But it spent only a short time in the top 40.
    Though myself am guilty of placing a lot of strength in the amount of "owns" on 45 Cat and the other site. Both have flaws. You will find "official" million sellers with less than 100 owns. Even in the 1965 sample (I did) one record reached number 2 on just 55 owns.
    In fact I will post the results here of the 1965 most owns. Each red number is a RR chart hit. And the 50 is where each one reached. Ignore the first numbers in 2 column, 4th column numbers are my estimates of owns needed to reach that position. The fifth has all the records and owns.
    1965 Most owned for chart hits.jpg

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  • MrTibbs
    replied
    Greetings Pop Pickers ! Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart Top 30 for Week Ending 13th February 1965.

    The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending February 13th 1965 BBC NME MM Disc RR Total
    Last This The Sound Survey Chart Chart Chart Chart Chart Points
    Week Week The Top 30 Singles Chart Number Of Chart Positions 30 Scored
    2 1 Tired Of Waiting For You - The Kinks 1 1 1 1 2 18965
    1 2 You've Lost That Lovin' Feelin' - The Righteous Brothers 2 2 2 2 1 18500
    5 3 Keep Searchin' - Del Shannon 3 4 3 4 3 17480
    11 4 I'll Never Find Another You - The Seekers 4 3 4 3 5 17360
    3 5 Go Now - The Moody Blues 5 5 5 5 4 16595
    4 6 Come Tomorrow - Manfred Mann 6 8 6 6 6 15475
    12 7 The Special Years - Val Doonican 7 7 7 7 7 15240
    7 8 Cast Your Fate To The Wind - Sounds Orchestral 8 10 8 8 8 14205
    20 9 The Game Of Love - Wayne Fontana and The Mindbenders 9 6 9 9 14 14145
    24 10 Don't Let Me Be Misunderstood - The Animals 11 8 12 11 13 12880
    6 11 You've Lost that Lovin' Feelin' - Cilla Black 10 13 11 10 9 12570
    8 12 Baby Please Don't Go - Them 12 14 10 12 10 12335
    26 13 Funny How Love Can Be - The Ivy League 13= 11 15 13 19 10820
    17 14 Leader Of The Pack - The Shangri-Las 13= 15 14 18 11 10450
    9 15 Terry - Twinkle 15 17 13 15 17 10090
    28 16 It Hurts So Much - Jim Reeves 16 12 20 14 20 9185
    15 17 The Three Bells - Brian Poole and The Tremeloes 19 18 16 17 21 8600
    10 18 Yeh Yeh - Georgie Fame and The Blue Flames 17 20 17 16 15 8560
    13 19 Ferry Cross The Mersey - Gerry and The Pacemakers 18 19 18 19 12 8465
    16 20 I'm Lost Without You - Billy Fury 20 22 19 20 16 7175
    23 21 Yes I Will - The Hollies 22 16 22 22 22 6915
    14 22 Girl Don't Come - Sandie Shaw 21 23 21 21 18 6205
    22 23 What In The World's Come Over You - The Rockin' Berries 23 23 23 28 23 4580
    NEW 24 It's Not Unusual - Tom Jones 25 21 23 2800
    19 25 I Feel Fine - The Beatles 24 25 24 25 2710
    18 26 Somewhere - P J Proby 27 24 30 24 2445
    RE 27 Dance Dance Dance - The Beach Boys 26 28 28 26 26 2275
    NEW 28 Mary Anne - The Shadows 28 25 25 1800
    27 29 Getting Mighty Crowded - Betty Everett 29= 26 29 29 1700
    NEW 30 Goodnight - Roy Orbison 29= 27 30 27 1450
    Downtown - Petula Clark 26 29 1420
    Walk Tall - Val Doonican 27 28 1255
    Come See About Me - The Supremes 30 27 540
    I Must Be Seeing Things - Gene Pitney 29 400
    I Could Easily Fall - Cliff Richard 30 85

    Leave a comment:


  • setg1
    replied
    Originally posted by Graham76man View Post

    You do need to check your facts before assuming something. Ruby was in the Record Retailer Chart and made no 38.
    On 45 Cat the record has 61 owns.
    The only Ruby and the Romantics song I could find appearing on the Record Retailer chart was "Our Day Will Come".

    https://www.officialcharts.com/artis...the-romantics/

    Your post mentioned another one of their songs, which was also the record I was talking about. According to the OCC database, that one only charted in later versions by the Marvelettes and the Flying Pickets.

    Originally posted by Graham76man View Post
    For example in the last Real Chart for December 1964, at number 3 is Ruby & The Romantics - When you're young and in love. And I wait in an anticipation to see if will appear in this list.
    http://www.45cat.com/record/hlr9935

    It does have 10 owners on 45cat (more than on Discogs), though it's impossible to say exactly which version they own (since 45cat combines the promo single and the commercially released one into the same listing).

    Edit: MrTibbs : That's right, I hadn't seen your post before I sent my reply.

    Leave a comment:


  • MrTibbs
    replied
    Graham I think you got mixed up with the title there, the No 38 position in RR refers to Our Day Will Come in 1963, but I think in your earlier post you were referring to When You're Young And In Love in December 1964 and I don't see this in either RR or MM positions 31 - 50. I believe that that was the record that Setj was referring to in his comment above re sales.

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  • Graham76man
    commented on 's reply
    Most of these collecting sites will show more owns for promo copies as these only went on to radio stations etc and were not for sale to the public. Therefore making them more valuable.

  • Graham76man
    replied
    Originally posted by setg1 View Post


    This makes me wonder where the supposed sales for Ruby and the Romantics (not appearing on any of the four different UK charts) came from... On Discogs, just three people own a copy of the UK release – even the promo single of the same song is owned by more users! I know one can't conclude exactly how much a record sold based on a small number of copies listed on a website created decades later, but three is a ridiculously low number for a supposed top ten hit. I can even find non-hit records from smaller countries with more owners, such as a "Pretty Flamingo" cover from Finland (it didn't reach the top 40 there) that has seven owners, more than double that of Ruby and the Romantics!

    Barring additional evidence to the contrary (maybe strong import sales?), I see no reason to believe the Ruby and the Romantics single was a hit at all in the UK.
    You do need to check your facts before assuming something. Ruby was in the Record Retailer Chart and made no 38.
    On 45 Cat the record has 61 owns.
    I did at one time do a full list of all the new release singles on 45 Cat for 1965 in the UK. I also did a check list of what a record got in the top 50 and the number of owns.
    I will show you the typical averages for the top 50 slots and about what the ownership levels were.
    This is for 1965 only.
    50 to 47 - 14
    46 to 41 - 19
    40 to 28 - 20
    27 to 24 - 21-28
    23 to 21 - 29
    20 to 18 - 30-36
    17 & 16 - 37
    15 - 39
    14 - 42
    13 - 47
    12 & 11 - 53
    10 to 7 - 54-56
    6 - 58
    5 - 59 to 66
    4 - 67
    3 - 70
    2 - 74
    1 - Lowest 68. Highest 140.

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  • MrTibbs
    replied
    Greetings Pop Pickers ! Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart Top 30 for Week Ending 6th February 1965.

    The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending February 6th 1965 BBC NME MM Disc RR Total
    Last This The Sound Survey Chart Chart Chart Chart Chart Points
    Week Week The Top 30 Singles Chart Number Of Chart Positions 30 Scored
    2 1 You've Lost That Lovin' Feelin' - The Righteous Brothers 1 1 1 1 1 19050
    5 2 Tired Of Waiting For You - The Kinks 2 2 2 2 2 18415
    1 3 Go Now - The Moody Blues 3 3 3 3 3 17780
    4 4 Come Tomorrow - Manfred Mann 4 5 4 4 4 16945
    11 5 Keep Searchin' - Del Shannon 5 4 6 5 6 16375
    3 6 You've Lost That Lovin' Feelin' - Cilla Black 6 7 5 6 5 16010
    7 7 Cast Your Fate To The Wind - Sounds Orchestral 7 6 7 7 7 15440
    12 8 Baby Please Don't Go - Them 10 10 8 11 11 13650
    8 9 Terry - Twinkle 8 11 9 8 10 13585
    6 10 Yeh Yeh - Georgie Fame and The Blue Flames 9 12 10 9 8 13205
    21 11 I'll Never Find Another You - The Seekers 13 9 12 14 14 12295
    17 12 The Special Years - Val Doonican 11 8 14 12 13 12280
    10 13 Ferry Cross The Mersey - Gerry and The Pacemakers 12 13 13 10 12 11815
    9 14 Girl Don't Come - Sandie Shaw 14 16 11 13 9 11670
    16 15 The Three Bells - Brian Poole and The Tremeloes 15 17 17 15 17 9090
    19 16 I'm Lost Without You - Billy Fury 16 20 15 16 16 8975
    18 17 Leader Of The Pack - The Shangri-Las 17 15 18 17 18 8955
    14 18 Somewhere - P J Proby 18 27 16 21 15 6910
    13 19 I Feel Fine - The Beatles 19 23 21 18 19 6420
    NEW 20 The Game Of Love - Wayne Fontana and The Mindbenders 20 18 24 19 27 5890
    15 21 Downtown - Petula Clark 21= 26 19 26 20 5435
    24 22 What In The World's Come Over You - The Rockin' Berries 21= 21 23 24 23 5380
    NEW 23 Yes I Will - The Hollies 23 22 22 25 25 5160
    NEW 24 Don't Let Me Be Misunderstood - The Animals 24 14 20 4500
    20 25 Walk Tall - Val Doonican 25 20 27 22 3915
    NEW 26 Funny How Love Can Be - The Ivy League 26 19 23 3200
    25 27 Getting Mighty Crowded - Betty Everett 27= 25 25 28 30 3085
    NEW 28 It Hurts So Much - Jim Reeves 27= 24 22 2300
    22 29 I Could Easily Fall - Cliff Richard 29 27 30 21 1950
    NEW 30 Come See About Me - The Supremes 28 28 29 29 1720
    No Arms Can Ever Hold You - The Bachelors 26 28 1505
    Dance Dance Dance - The Beach Boys 30 29 29 24 1495
    Promised Land - Chuck Berry 30 26 675
    Tell Her No - The Zombies 30 200


    Leave a comment:


  • MrTibbs
    replied
    All the great female fifties singers did their apprenticeships with the big bands and had voice training and coaching. By the sixties singers male and female were just literally singing as best they knew and could without any training. I think Cilla Black's voice was powerful but totally untrained so just let fly. Having said that I think both Anyone and World were stunning singles.

    Today's 'talent' need auto tune to even sing at all.

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