The Ultimate Averaged Chart - The BBC Chart Re-Imagined

[MrTibbs]

The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending January 4th 1969								NME	MM	RR	Total
Last	This		The Sound Survey				Stores	200	250	85	Points
Week	Week		The Top 30 Singles Chart				BBC		TOP	30	Scored
1	1	Lily The Pink - The Scaffold					1	1	1	2	15965
4	2	Build Me Up Buttercup - The Foundations					2	2	2	3	15430
8	3	Ob-La-Di-Ob-La-Da - The Marmalade					3	3	5	1	14650
2	4	One Two Three O'Leary - Des O'Connor					4	4	3	8	14355
3	5	Ain't Got No..I Got Life - Nina Simone					5=	5	4	7	13990
5	6	I'm The Urban Spaceman - The Bonzo Dog Doo Dah Band					5=	6	5	5	13710
6	7	Sabre Dance - Love Sculpture					7=	7	7	6	12925
12	8	Albatross - Fleetwood Mac					7=	8	8	4	12645
10	9	Race With The Devil - The Gun					9	10	9	11	11400
9	10	May I Have The Next Dream With You - Malcolm Roberts					10	9	10	16	10925
7	11	The Good The Bad And The Ugly - Hugo Montenegro					11	10	11	15	10560
11	12	I'm A Tiger - Lulu					12	12	12	13	10080
13	13	A Minute Of Your Time - Tom Jones					14=	13	13	17	9290
17	14	Son Of A Preacher Man - Dusty Springfield					13	17	14	9	8920
15	15	Private Number - William Bell and Judy Clay					14=	14	15	14	8845
16	16	Love Child - Diana Ross and The Supremes					17	15	16	18	8055
24	17	Something's Happening - Herman's Hermits					16	16	18	10	8035
14	18	Breaking Down The Walls Of Heartache - The Bandwagon					18	24	17	19	5920
22	19	Ob-La-Di-Ob-La-Da - The Bedrocks					19	18	23	20	5535
19	20	Harper Valley P.T.A. - Jeannie C. Riley					22	20	20	26	5375
23	21	If I Knew Then What I Know Now - Val Doonican					21	19	22	23	5330
21	22	Elenore - The Turtles					24	22	21	25	4810
18	23	This Old Heart Of Mine - The Isley Brothers					23	26	19	22	4765
NEW	24	For Once In My Life - Stevie Wonder					20	23	28	12	3965
27	25	Stop Her On Sight (SOS) - Edwin Starr					25	21	25		3500
20	26	Eloise - Barry Ryan					29=		24		1750
29	27	Don't Forget To Catch Me - Cliff Richard					26	29	29	21	1750
30	28	Atlantis - Donovan					27	25	30	28	1705
25	29	Quick Joey Small - The Kasenetz-Katz Singing Orchestral Circus					28		26	27	1590
26	30	Those Were The Days - Mary Hopkin							27	29	1170
		I'm In A Different World - The Four Tops						27			800
		On Mother Kelly's Doorstep - Danny La Rue						28			600
		Please Don't go - Donald Peers					29			24	595
		Fox On The Run - Manfred Mann						30			200
		Toy - The Casuals								30	85
28		I Shall Be Released - The Tremeloes

[kingofskiffle]

Absolutely awesome and huge thanks for starting this and finishing it all off. Over 200 pages, and 130,000 views is one of our biggest topics ever here, so thank you for this mammoth project.

[MrTibbs]

.. and there they are guys, the UAC 1955 to 1969 week by week. I hope I have achieved what I set out to do just over 2 years ago, revisit history, take the BBC charts, add another level to make them more robust, re-compile them to remove errors, and deliver an averaged chart fit for that era.

That was my role, but it was by no means a one man show. I need to thank every one of you 24 guys who liked and followed this thread from beginning to end. 24 likes is a fantastic achievement on this site. The thread to date has over 130,000 views. In my wildest hopes at the outset I never believed I would achieve anything near that but you all made sure it happened.

I do need to take this opportunity at the end of this thread to single out and sincerely thank a few names in particular who put their shoulder to the wheel and advised me, supported me through thick, thin, moments of frustration with data etc to make it to the end of this journey.

RokinRobin - Without him this project would simply not have happened. He devised the spreadsheet for it and amended it along the way as necessary for changes. He also offered hints and tips along the way on what data might be useful in the thread.
Kingofskiffle - Assisted me with technical help for the thread, advised me as I progressed on chart matters, and gave various mentions to the UAC in his excellent '70 Years Of UK Singles Charts' books
Kjell - Supplied me with missing chart data and gave lots of practical advice.
Braindeadpj - This is the guy with a sharp eye for detail without whom some errors would have slipped through the net. He was my safety net for any errors I missed and advised me on corrections needed to ensure the UAC is spot on on accuracy.
Splodj - Possesses a wealth of background music knowledge, facts, and interesting anecdotes and shared these with us on a daily basis to enrich the chart numbers being presented and make it much more interesting.

Many others contributed almost daily too, Robbie, Brian, Membrane, Gambo, Metal, to name but a few and there are so many others who made valuable contributions along the way. To each and every one of you a big, big, thanks for following and 'liking' this.

So this thread ends, but, give me a few weeks to get my breath back and then I'll be back too with a brand new thread 'The Record Mirror Dealer Return Chart' listing every record charted by a dealer and submitted to RM. This will replace my earlier rather crude version which was compiled using a notebook and calculator as the new version will be spreadsheet led with a potential for a Top 50 and possibly Top 100 but not fixed to those numbers if titles exceed those.
It's a massive undertaking as by the mid fifties I will be drawing data from around 60 dealer charts, all to be input with every record appearing on them.

FINALLY, some breaking news for you. As you know I had to put this project on hold due to delays in getting to London and due to Covid for two years to extract the raw data from The Newspaper Library as I only currently have the first year of data.
Well I can now advise it is about to happen. I'm now booked to go down for 5 days from 1st August this year to collect the remainder of the data till its conclusion in March 1961.

Yip ! It's about to happen !

[braindeadpj]

Thanks again for creating this thread and seeing it through to the end. What a mammoth undertaking. Hopefully, I caught most (all?) of the errors for you....
Glad to hear you're going to be able to get to London sooner rather than later in preparation for your next mammoth project!
I'll certainly miss checking this thread every day (though of course the Record Mirror thread will take its place once started :-))!

[BrainDamageII]

Thanks for sticking with it. It has totally been worthwhile. It's not just the 24 likes on the 1st post, it's the hundreds of likes throughout all these pages that show how much it has been appreciated.

.. and there they are guys, the UAC 1955 to 1969 week by week.

collect the remainder of the data till its conclusion in March 1961.

Yip ! It's about to happen !

I do hope you mean up to March 1962, wouldn't want you to miss a year of work

I do have one small, possibly cheeky, request. The only charts I am missing are the RM album charts so if you are scanning can you catch them as well

[MrTibbs]

Thanks for sticking with it. It has totally been worthwhile. It's not just the 24 likes on the 1st post, it's the hundreds of likes throughout all these pages that show how much it has been appreciated.



I do hope you mean up to March 1962, wouldn't want you to miss a year of work

I do have one small, possibly cheeky, request. The only charts I am missing are the RM album charts so if you are scanning can you catch them as well

Yeah Brain I will scan the album charts too. I said March 61 because unfortunately RM stopped publishing the dealer charts then grrr

[braindeadpj]

It should say 30 rather than 20 for the UAC on the bridging chart for the December 28th 1968 chart for Donovan.

[MrTibbs]

Corrected David thanks.

[Robbie]

Thanks for the thread MrTibbs. It has been a great read. The amount of work you have put into the thread over the past two years has been immense and is much appreciated. Now, put your feet up and have a few weeks rest before you head down to London to obtain those dealer charts!

[Splodj]

A big thank-you from me too.

If the British Library have put the RMs on microfilm by now your job will be a lot easier, as you'll be able to zap the pages to your email.

[MrTibbs]

A big thank-you from me too.

If the British Library have put the RMs on microfilm by now your job will be a lot easier, as you'll be able to zap the pages to your email.

I never thought on that Splodj but I will find out for sure as that would make it quicker and easier. Thanks for that useful hint.

[RokinRobinOfLocksley]

Brian, thanks again for all your hard dedicated work on this super duper thread !! I can't believe it's been 2 years on this adventure, wow !! Time sure does fly by, getting faster the older we get... So many good comments and thoughts and input by so many, it was a real historical educational experience for all of us. (I just wish Alan Smith had been here to party with us along the way. He's still out there, I heard from him about 2 months ago.)

[MrTibbs]

For your info guys after a few weeks break I intend to start the next Extended RM project mid August so watch out for the new thread around that time.

[Richard M White]

What wonderful work Brian, and is now a very important point of reference as well. Congratulations

[Magician]

I have a question. I have done a similar work to yourself, (although by no means as accurate), in relation to the US Charts of the 60s. In the absence of definitive data re sample sizes etc, I utilised a method similar to that employed by the BBC. Although my method for eliminating ties was much more ruthless, I still had to tolerate some tied positions. I am thinking of putting my work into book form and selling it as an ebook. This is something you should seriously consider in respect of your own magnificent effort which I have been following with great interest. If we did publish books containing our average charts, would we be in breach of copyright? Could we be subject to legal action? Have you ever considered this point? Once again your work is to be commended.

[kingofskiffle]

I have a question. I have done a similar work to yourself, (although by no means as accurate), in relation to the US Charts of the 60s. In the absence of definitive data re sample sizes etc, I utilised a method similar to that employed by the BBC. Although my method for eliminating ties was much more ruthless, I still had to tolerate some tied positions. I am thinking of putting my work into book form and selling it as an ebook. This is something you should seriously consider in respect of your own magnificent effort which I have been following with great interest. If we did publish books containing our average charts, would we be in breach of copyright? Could we be subject to legal action? Have you ever considered this point? Once again your work is to be commended.

Several books exist on Amazon utilising data from the UK charts, both with and without the official charts company guidance. I would suggest that using the entire NME chart as is may be liable to copyright, but simply stating you used it would be fine. The records themselves are not subject to copyright as far as titles, etc go - unless you include images of the artwork. My view, am not a trained lawyer and this is not legal advice.

[Magician]

Several books exist on Amazon utilising data from the UK charts, both with and without the official charts company guidance. I would suggest that using the entire NME chart as is may be liable to copyright, but simply stating you used it would be fine. The records themselves are not subject to copyright as far as titles, etc go - unless you include images of the artwork. My view, am not a trained lawyer and this is not legal advice.

I used Billboard, Cashbox and Music Vendor/Record World, allocated chart points in the same way that they did to compile the BBC chart so the end product looks nothing like the source charts. The differences between the charts was much greater in some cases than the source charts for the BBC charts. It would be interesting to see how anyone could file a copyright claim but the ingenuity of the legal profession means one must exercise an abundance of caution. I wouldn’t for example do as Mr Tibbs has done and quote the data from the source charts. I wonder who has copyright for the BBC Chart.

[Magician]

As a taster, here is the US Average Top Twenty of sixty years ago. Yes I know this thread relates to the alternative to the POTP chart and I don’t propose to make a habit of it but there is a common thread and I would also encourage Mr Tibbs to put his work in book form.

21 July 1962

1	1	Roses Are Red (My Love)	Bobby Vinton
2	4	The Wah Watusi	The Orlons
3	3	I Can't Stop Loving You	Ray Charles
4	2	The Stripper	David Rose and His Orchestra
5	6	Sealed With A Kiss	Brian Hyland
6	5	Wolverton Mountain	Claude King
7	11	Speedy Gonzales	Pat Boone
8	10	Gravy (For My Mashed Potatoes)	Dee Dee Sharp
9	16	Ahab, The Arab	Ray Stevens
10	19	Breaking Up Is Hard To Do	Neil Sedaka
11	12	Johnny Get Angry	Joanie Sommers
12	7	Palisades Park	Freddy Cannon
13	9	Al Di La'	Emilio Pericoli
14	14	Theme From Dr. Kildare (Three Stars Will Shine Tonight)	Richard Chamberlain
15	8	It Keeps Right On A-Hurtin'	Johnny Tillotson
16	17	Having A Party	Sam Cooke
17	—	Dancin' Party	Chubby Checker
18	—	Twist And Shout	The Isley Brothers
19	—	You'll Lose A Good Thing	Barbara Lynn
20	20	I'll Never Dance Again	Bobby Rydell

[kingofskiffle]

I would encourage you to start a new thread with this, as it is a good idea. You can then gauge interest for a book, if thats what you ultimately want to do.

[Magician]

I would encourage you to start a new thread with this, as it is a good idea. You can then gauge interest for a book, if thats what you ultimately want to do.

I’ve taken preliminary legal advice. Apparently it wouldn’t be a breach of copyright so I’ll just give it some thought about how best to go about it. Not expecting floods of interest as this whole topic is something of a niche interest. The market would be limited. It would probably have to be an ebook for that reason. Apparently someone has already started a thread on the subject. I was more interested in the concept of putting the material into book form, hence commenting on this thread. I reiterate, the U.K. average chart compiled by Mr Tibbs would be of much more interest, my effort is more akin to the original BBC chart and probably just as prone to errors.

[MrTibbs]

I have a question. I have done a similar work to yourself, (although by no means as accurate), in relation to the US Charts of the 60s. In the absence of definitive data re sample sizes etc, I utilised a method similar to that employed by the BBC. Although my method for eliminating ties was much more ruthless, I still had to tolerate some tied positions. I am thinking of putting my work into book form and selling it as an ebook. This is something you should seriously consider in respect of your own magnificent effort which I have been following with great interest. If we did publish books containing our average charts, would we be in breach of copyright? Could we be subject to legal action? Have you ever considered this point? Once again your work is to be commended.

I have been asked a good few times Magician if I have plans to publish them in an ebook but not thought about it seriously yet to be honest. But who knows lol. I agree with kingofskiffle I too would like to see more of your charts in a thread and thanks too for your kind words of support for this thread.

[MrTibbs]

Morning All. Just to update you on progress with my next project.

THE RECORD MIRROR CHARTS, REVISED, RE-CALCULATED AND FULLY EXTENDED.

I have now returned from London armed with hours and hours of research into all Record Mirror's Charts from 1954 to 1961 enabling me to begin this long awaited project.
I now have every one of Record Mirror's dealer charts in my possession amounting to over 1500 part pages taken from RM. I was lucky because I had great difficulty in accessing some of the old volumes because they are no longer available for viewing by the public due to their deteriorating and very fragile condition. I had to go to great lengths to prove the purpose of my research before the British Library reluctantly agreed me access and then only under the condition of strict supervised access.

This research also allowed me to copy all RM's Album Charts too from 1956 through March 1962 when it adopted RR as its chart source.

So hopefully tomorrow, or failing that Monday I will open a new thread and give a detailed introduction and outline about the project, methodology, background etc.

I hope all of you who enjoyed the UAC will 'Like' and follow this new thread which will take Record Mirror's charts to a whole new level not seen before.

[Robbie]

It sounds like you had a very fruitful visit to London MrTibbs. Also, it's possible that you could be the last person to be able to access some of those older volumes of Record Mirror. I'm looking forward to the thread!

[MrTibbs]

It sounds like you had a very fruitful visit to London MrTibbs. Also, it's possible that you could be the last person to be able to access some of those older volumes of Record Mirror. I'm looking forward to the thread!

Yeah Robbie the Head Archivist confirmed that to me. He advised when I had finished with the volumes concerned that they will be filed as and I quote 'Unfit For Use. In Very Poor Condition' until such as a time they can be converted to Microfilm and that is likely to be years down the line due to the amount of documents awaiting this.

[Splodj]

Well done Me Tibbs. There must have been a terrible moment when you thought your visit would be to no avail!

Going back to the copyright issue mentioned a few posts ago ...

If a composite chart is a breach of copyright then I don't understand how Pop Weekly was allowed to publish one for so long, albeit a week late. I assume their UK chart was compiled without permission of the contributory charts as, unlike on POTP, they were not mentioned.

[Germanicus]

The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending January 4th 1964							BBC	NME	RM	MM	Disc	RR
Last	This						Chart	Chart	Chart	Chart	Chart	Chart
Week	Week	Title and Artist						Total Chart Positions				30
1	1	I Want To Hold Your Hand - The Beatles					1	1		1	1	1
2	2	Glad All Over - The Dave Clark Five					2	2		2	2	2
3	3	She Loves You - The Beatles					3	3		3	3	3
4	4	Dominique - The Singing Nun					6=	5		4	7	7
7	5	I Only Want To Be With You - Dusty Springfield					5	4		7	5	6
6	6	You Were Made For Me - Freddie and The Dreamers					4	8		5	4	4
8	7	Twenty Four Hours From Tulsa - Gene Pitney					6=	6		6	6	5
5	8	Secret Love - Kathy Kirby					8	7		8	8	9
11	9	Swinging On A Star - Big Dee Irwin					9	9		9	12	11
21	10	Hippy Hippy Shake - The Swinging Blue Jeans					10	9		12	10	13
9	11	Maria Elena - Los Indios Tabajaras					11	11		11	15	8
14	12	I Wanna Be Your Man - The Rolling Stones					13	12		10	16	15
10	13	Don't Talk To Him - Cliff Richard					12	12		14	11	10
12	14	Geronimo - The Shadows					15	14		13	20	12
13	15	Twist And Shout (EP) - The Beatles					16	17		16	13	15
16	16	You'll Never Walk Alone - Gerry and The Pacemakers					18	16		15	18	16
15	17	Kiss Me Quick - Elvis Presley					17	15		19	14	14
20	18	Chris Sandford - Not Too Little Not Too Much					19	22		18	19	18
24	19	Stay - The Hollies					21	18		21	28	17
17	20	The Beatles Hits (EP) - The Beatles					20	19		24	17	20
18	21	I'll Keep You Satisfied - Billy J Kramer and The Dakotas					22	23		20	21	21
23	22	We Are In Love - Adam Faith					23	21		22	24	20
29	23	Money - Bern Elliot and The Fenmen					24	26		17		19
19	24	All I Want For Christmas Is A Beatle - Dora Bryan					25	27		23	27	24
22	25	It's Almost Tomorrow - Mark Wynter					26	24		25	25	30
26	26	Do You Really Love Me Too - Billy Fury					28	25		29	22
25	27	If I Ruled The World - Harry Secombe					27			26	26	22
27	28	I (Who Have Nothing) - Shirley Bassey					29			28		25
NEW	29	What To Do - Buddy Holly								27		28
NEW	30	At The Palace - Wilfrid Brambell and Harry H Corbett					30=	28				26
		Do You Hear What I Hear - Bing Crosby					30=				23
		Blue Bayou / Mean Woman Blues - Roy Orbison										23
		Country Boy - Heinz									29	27
		Hungry For Love - Johnny Kidd and The Pirates						30		30
		The Beatles No 1 (EP) - The Beatles						29
		From Russia With Love - Matt Monro										29
		I'm In Love - The Fourmost									30
		With The Beatles (LP) - The Beatles						20			9

Hello Mr Tibbs

In your post #7 The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending January 4th 1964

https://www.ukmix.org/forum/chart-di...0#post10418390

This is specific for the Record Retailer Column

You have the following..................................................RR

14 12 I Wanna Be Your Man - The Rolling Stones........15
13 15 Twist And Shout (EP) - The Beatles....................15

17 20 The Beatles Hits (EP) - The Beatles...................20
23 22 We Are In Love - Adam Faith..............................20

I was not aware that Record Retailer included EP's in their Charts.

Is this an oversight or can you share the reasoning please.

The previous weeks charts does not include The Beatles EP's in The Record Retailer Charts

#2720 Fri May 28, 2021, 04:10

The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending December 28th 1963

https://www.ukmix.org/forum/chart-di...0#post10633760

The week after Week Ending January 11th 1964 does not include The Beatles EP's in The Record Retailer Charts

#18 Wed June 17, 2020, 23:34

The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending January 11th 1964

https://www.ukmix.org/forum/chart-di...8#post10418798

I am just curious. Not being critical as I can see this was a monumental effort. Well done.

Your assistance would be greatfully appreciated.

I enjoyed reading all your posts.

Most respectfully

Germanicus