The Ultimate Averaged Chart - The BBC Chart Re-Imagined

[MrTibbs]

Greetings Pop Pickers ! Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending 29th August 1964.

* Denotes an average score awarded as RR excluded EP's, but appeared in all 3 other music paper charts.

The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending August 29th 1964							BBC	NME	MM	Disc	RR	Total
Last	This						Chart	Chart	Chart	Chart	Chart	Points
Week	Week	Title and Artist						Total Chart Positions			30	Scored
3	1	Have I The Right - The Honeycombs					1	1	1	1	1	19050
1	2	Do Wah Diddy Diddy - Manfred Mann					2	2	2	2	2	18415
5	3	I Won't Forget You - Jim Reeves					3	4	3	3	3	17580
12	4	You Really Got Me - The Kinks					4	3	5	4	4	17095
2	5	A Hard Day's Night - The Beatles					5	5	4	5	5	16760
6	6	Tobacco Road - The Nashville Teens					6	6	6	8	6	15675
4	7	Call Up The Groups - The Barron Knights					8	7	8	7	10	14735
9	8	It's For You - Cilla Black					7	8	9	6	8	14555
8	9	I Get Around - The Beach Boys					9	11	7	10	7	14140
7	10	It's All Over Now - The Rolling Stones					10	10	10	11	9	13320
16	11	I Wouldn't Trade You For The World - The Bachelors					11	13	11	9	11	12500
20	12	The Crying Game - Dave Berry					12	11	12	12	12	12265
18	13	Five By Five (EP) - The Rolling Stones					17	9	19	13	*	10679
11	14	It's Only Make Believe - Billy Fury					13	16	13	17	17	10090
17	15	I Love You Because - Jim Reeves					14	19	14	18	14	9395
13	16	On The Beach - Cliff Richard					18	15	16	22	15	9210
24	17	Such A Night - Elvis Presley					16	13	20	14	20	8985
10	18	I Just Don't Know What To Do With Myself - Dusty Springfield					15	22	15	15	13	8930
14	19	From A Window - Billy J Kramer and The Dakotas					19	19	17	16	19	8420
15	20	I Found Out The Hard Way - The Four Pennies					20	18	18	19	18	8155
28	21	She's Not There - The Zombies					22	17	22	24	21	6600
27	22	As Tears Go By - Marianne Faithfull					21	23	21	23	16	6175
NEW	23	Rag Doll - The Four Seasons					24	21	27	20	29	4270
30	24	The Wedding - Julie Rogers					23	26	24	25	23	4030
23	25	You'll Never Get To Heaven - Dionne Warwick					25	24	26	27	22	3815
22	26	Wishin' And Hopin' - The Merseybeats					28		23	30	24	2695
NEW	27	I'm Into Something Good - Herman's Hermits					27	25		26	25	2210
19	28	House Of The Rising Sun - The Animals					29		25	29	30	1785
21	29	Someday We're Gonna Love Again - The Searchers					30	29	28		28	1405
26	30	The Ferris Wheel - The Everly Brothers							29		26	925
		A Hard Day's Night (LP) - The Beatles					26	30		21		2100
		Everybody Loves Somebody - Dean Martin						27				800
		I Should Have Known Better - The Naturals								28	27	640
		You Never Can Tell - Chuck Berry						28				600
		Thinking Of You Baby - The Dave Clark Five							30			250
		Twelve Steps To Love - Brian Poole and The Tremeloes						30				200

[MrTibbs]

Having the excell spreadsheet does all the hard work Graham. I simply input the record titles and chart positions 1 - 30 for the NME column, then just the additional titles and chart positions in the other 3 chart columns then allow the spreadsheet to do all the calculations. I then just double check it over to ensure I have input the correct info, save it, and post it here for you guys to enjoy. All in all as I don't rush the process it takes about 1.5 hours per chart.

It's amazing what you see for the first time when you see all the music paper charts lined up against each other for comparison.
I never appreciated how often and how many tied positions the NME had and often in very high chart positions.
NME and Disc, closely align, probably due to using advance orders. As you would expect the greatest variation in chart positions occurs in positions 21 -30 in the music paper charts. Fascinating Stuff though !

[MrTibbs]

Greetings Pop Pickers ! Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending 22nd August 1964.

* Denotes an average score awarded as RR excluded EP's, but appeared in all 3 other music paper charts.

The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending August 22nd 1964							BBC	NME	MM	Disc	RR	Total
Last	This						Chart	Chart	Chart	Chart	Chart	Points
Week	Week	Title and Artist						Total Chart Positions			30	Scored
1	1	Do Wah Diddy Diddy - Manfred Mann					1	1	1	1	1	19050
2	2	A Hard Day's Night - The Beatles					2	3	2	3	2	18115
9	3	Have I The Right - The Honeycombs					3	2	4	2	3	17830
3	4	Call Up The Groups - The Barron Knights					4	4	3	5	5	17210
7	5	I Won't Forget You - Jim Reeves					5	6	5	4	4	16495
5	6	Tobacco Road - The Nashville Teens					6	5	6	6	6	16075
4	7	It's All Over Now - The Rolling Stones					7	7	7	7	7	15240
8	8	I Get Around - The Beach Boys					9	10	8	8	8	14205
13	9	It's For You - Cilla Black					8	9	9	9	13	13630
6	10	I Just Don't Know What To Do With Myself - Dusty Springfield					10	11	10	10	9	13220
11	11	It's Only Make Believe - Billy Fury					11	13	11	11	12	12215
23	12	You Really Got Me - The Kinks					13	8	14	12	15	12110
10	13	On The Beach - Cliff Richard					12	12	13	14	11	11700
12	14	From A Window - Billy J Kramer and The Dakotas					14	17	12	15	10	10935
14	15	I Found Out The Hard Way - The Four Pennies					15	16	15	13	14	10245
28	16	I Wouldn't Trade You For The World - The Bachelors					16	15	18	16	21	8800
25	17	I Love You Because - Jim Reeves					17	22	16	17	16	8225
NEW	18	Five By Five (EP) - The Rolling Stones					18	13	26	18	*	7170
15	19	House Of The Rising Sun - The Animals					21=	24	17	20	22	6765
24	20	The Crying Game - Dave Berry					19	21	20	21	20	6685
16	21	Someday We're Gonna Love Again - The Searchers					20	18	22	24	18	6655
17	22	Wishin'And Hopin' - The Merseybeats					21=	25	19	22	17	6290
18	23	You'll Never Get To Heaven - Dionne Warwick					23	23	21	27	23	5180
NEW	24	Such A Night - Elvis Presley					26	19	29	23		3700
22	25	Thinking Of You Baby - The Dave Clark Five					28	25	24		26	3375
20	26	The Ferris Wheel - The Everly Brothers					29	27	23	30	27	3240
NEW	27	As Tears Go By - Marianne Faithfull					24=	28	27	26	19	3120
NEW	28	She's Not There - The Zombies					27	20		25	28	3055
19	29	Hold Me - P J Proby					30		25	28	24	2395
NEW	30	The Wedding - Julie Rogers							28	29	25	1460
		A Hard Day's Night (LP) - The Beatles					24=			19		1200
		How Can I Tell Her - The Fourmost						29				400
		Long Tall Sally (EP) - The Beatles							30			250
		Twelve Steps To Love - Brian Poole and The Tremeloes						30				200
		The Girl From Ipanema - Stan Getz and Joao Gilberto									29	170
		Kissin' Cousins - Elvis Presley									30	85

[Graham76man]

Brian I am amazed at how fast you can produce these charts.
It took me between 1pm till 6pm yesterday to knock out one 1967 Real Chart!

[MrTibbs]

Greetings Pop Pickers ! Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending 15th August 1964.

The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending August 15th 1964							BBC	NME	MM	Disc	RR	Total
Last	This						Chart	Chart	Chart	Chart	Chart	Points
Week	Week	Title and Artist					Number Of Chart Positions				30	Scored
2	1	Do Wah Diddy Diddy - Manfred Mann					1	1	1	1	1	19050
1	2	A Hard Day's Night - The Beatles					2	2	2	2	2	18415
4	3	Call Up The Groups - The Barron Knights					3	4	3	3	3	17580
3	4	It's All Over Now - The Rolling Stones					4	3	5	5	4	16995
6	5	Tobacco Road - The Nashville Teens					5	6	4	6	6	16375
5	6	I Just Don't Know What To Do With Myself - Dusty Springfield					7	5	7	7	7	15640
8	7	I Won't Forget You - Jim Reeves					6	9	6	4	5	15560
10	8	I Get Around - The Beach Boys					8	10	8	9	8	14105
17	9	Have I The Right - The Honeycombs					9	7	10	8	11	14050
7	10	On The Beach - Cliff Richard					10	8	11	10	9	13570
13	11	It's Only Make Believe - Billy Fury					11	11	9	11	10	13285
15	12	From A Window - Billy J Kramer and The Dakotas					12	13	12	12	12	11865
22	13	It's For You - Cilla Black					13=	12	14	14	17	10940
16	14	I Found Out The Hard Way - The Four Pennies					13=	14	16	13	14	10395
11	15	House Of The Rising Sun - The Animals					15	18	13	15	13	10230
9	16	Someday We're Gonna Love Again - The Searchers					16	15	15	16	16	9975
14	17	Wishin' And Hopin' - The Merseybeats					17	16	17	17	15	9260
18	18	You'll Never Get To Heaven - Dionne Warwick					18	17	19	20	20	7835
12	19	Hold Me - P J Proby					19	21	18	19	18	7555
24	20	The Ferris Wheel - The Everly Brothers					20	20	20	22	22	6615
26	21	The Girl From Ipanema - Stan Getz and Joao Gilberto					21=	22	21	25	30	4985
30	22	Thinking Of You Baby - The Dave Clark Five					25	23	22	27		4250
NEW	23	You Really Got Me - The Kinks					24	19	29	21		3900
NEW	24	The Crying Game - Dave Berry					23		26	24	21	2800
RE	25	I Love You Because - Jim Reeves					26		25	30	19	2620
19	26	It's Over - Roy Orbison					28=		23		24	2595
23	27	Kissin' Cousins - Elvis Presley					27	26	28		23	2430
NEW	28	I Wouldn't Trade You For The World - The Bachelors					28=	24		23		2200
27	29	(They Call Her) La Bamba - The Crickets							24			1750
25	30	Long Tall Sally (EP) - The Beatles					30		27	28		1300
		A Hard Day's Night (LP) - The Beatles					21=			18		1300
		The Wedding - Julie Rogers						25				1200
		You're No Good - The Swinging Blue Jeans						28			28	855
		As Tears Go By - Marianne Faithfull								26	27	840
		Happiness - Ken Dodd						27				800
		Someone Someone - Brian Poole and The Tremeloes							30		25	760
		Hello Dolly - Louis Armstrong						29			29	570
		Ramona - The Bachelors									26	425
		How Can I Tell Her - The Fourmost						30				200
		She's Not There - Zombies								29		200

[MrTibbs]

Greetings Pop Pickers ! Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending 8th August 1964.

* Denotes an average score awarded as RR excluded EP's, but appeared in all 3 other music paper charts.

The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending August 8th 1964							BBC	NME	MM	Disc	RR	Total
Last	This						Chart	Chart	Chart	Chart	Chart	Points
Week	Week	Title and Artist					Number Of Chart Positions				30	Scored
1	1	A Hard Day's Night - The Beatles					1	1	1	1	1	19050
3	2	Do Wah Diddy Diddy - Manfred Mann					2	2	2	2	2	18415
2	3	It's All Over Now - The Rolling Stones					3	3	3	3	4	17695
5	4	Call Up The Groups - The Barron Knights					4	5	4	4	3	17030
4	5	I Just Don't Know What To Do With Myself - Dusty Springfield					5	4	5	5	5	16710
10	6	Tobacco Road - The Nashville Teens					6	6	8	6	6	15375
8	7	On The Beach - Cliff Richard					7	7	7	8	7	15140
9	8	I Won't Forget You - Jim Reeves					8	8	9	9	9	14170
11	9	Someday We're Gonna Love Again - The Searchers					11	11	6	12	11	13850
13	10	I Get Around - The Beach Boys					9	9	11	7	10	13585
6	11	House Of The Rising Sun - The Animals					10	10	10	11	8	13405
7	12	Hold Me - P J Proby					12	12	13	10	13	11930
14	13	It's Only Make Believe - Billy Fury					13	13	12	13	12	11765
12	14	Wishin' And Hopin' - The Merseybeats					14	15	14	14	14	10595
19	15	From A Window - Billy J Kramer and The Dakotas					15	17	16	15	15	9510
22	16	I Found Out The Hard Way - The Four Pennies					17	20	15	17	23	8280
NEW	17	Have I The Right - The Honeycombs					16	17	19	18	18	8205
27	18	You'll Never Get To Heaven - Dionne Warwick					21=	14	20		25	6660
17	19	It's Over - Roy Orbison					20	25	17	25	17	6490
16	20	You're No Good - The Swinging Blue Jeans					19	21	22	20	19	6370
18	21	Someone Someone - Brian Poole and The Tremeloes					21=	24	23	23	20	5135
NEW	22	It's For You - Cilla Black					26	15	27	29	28	4655
15	23	Kissin' Cousins - Elvis Presley					23	23	24		16	4625
25	24	The Ferris Wheel - The Everly Brothers					25	19	28	21	29	4320
20	25	Long Tall Sally (EP) - The Beatles					24	27	25	19	*	4129
28	26	The Girl From Ipanema - Stan Getz and Joao Gilberto					28	29	18	27		4050
24	27	(They Call Her) La Bamba - The Crickets					30	30	21		24	3295
23	28	Hello Dolly - Louis Armstrong					27	28	29	22	22	2765
21	29	Ramona - The Bachelors					29		26	30	21	2200
NEW	30	Thinking Of You Baby - The Dave Clark Five						26				1000
		A Hard Day's Night (LP) - The Beatles					18	22		16		3300
		I Love You Because - Jim Reeves								26	26	925
		The Crying Game - Dave Berry								24		700
		My Guy - Mary Wells									27	340
		Like Dreamers Do - The Applejacks							30		30	335
		As Tears Go By - Marianne Faithfull								28		300

[MrTibbs]

Greetings Pop Pickers ! Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending 1st August 1964.

* Denotes an average score awarded as RR excluded EP's, but appeared in all 3 other music paper charts.

The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending August 1st 1964							BBC	NME	MM	Disc	RR	Total
Last	This						Chart	Chart	Chart	Chart	Chart	Points
Week	Week	Title and Artist					Number Of Chart Positions				30	Scored
1	1	A Hard Day's Night - The Beatles					1	1	1	1	1	19050
2	2	It's All Over Now - The Rolling Stones					2	2	2	3	2	18315
8	3	Do Wah Diddy Diddy - Manfred Mann					3	3	3	2	5	17710
3	4	I Just Don't Know What To Do With Myself - Dusty Springfield					4	4	4	5	3	17130
6	5	Call Up The Groups - The Barron Knights					5	5	5	4	4	16695
4	6	House Of The Rising Sun - The Animals					6	7	8	6	7	15090
5	7	Hold Me - P J Proby					7	9	6	8	6	15075
9	8	On The Beach - Cliff Richard					8	6	9	10	8	14555
7	9	I Won't Forget You - Jim Reeves					9	10	7	9	9	14270
10	10	Tobacco Road - The Nashville Teens					10	8	13	7	10	13285
14	11	Someday We're Gonna Love Again - The Searchers					11	11	10	11	12	12865
15	12	Wishin' And Hopin' - The Merseybeats					13	12	11	14	13	12030
20	13	I Get Around - The Beach Boys					12	14	12	12	11	11750
21	14	It's Only Make Believe - Billy Fury					14	13	14	13	18	10755
11	15	Kissin' Cousins - Elvis Presley					15	16	16	16	15	9610
12	16	You're No Good - The Swinging Blue Jeans					16	14	17	19	17	9290
13	17	It's Over - Roy Orbison					17	19	15	22	14	8745
16	18	Someone Someone - Brian Poole and The Tremeloes					18	18	18	18	16	8425
NEW	19	From A Window - Billy J Kramer and The Dakotas					20	17	19	21	22	7565
17	20	Long Tall Sally (EP) - The Beatles					19	20	22	15	*	7070
19	21	Ramona - The Bachelors					22	23	21	20	19	6220
27	22	I Found Out The Hard Way - The Four Pennies					24	23	20	24	25	5560
18	23	Hello Dolly - Louis Armstrong					23	23	24	23	20	5085
24	24	(They Call Her) La Bamba - The Crickets					25	27	25	27	21	3550
NEW	25	The Ferris Wheel - The Everly Brothers					26	20		28	27	2840
23	26	Like Dreamers Do - The Applejacks					27		23	29	26	2625
NEW	27	You'll Never Get To Heaven - Dionne Warwick					28	26	27	26		2500
NEW	28	The Girl From Ipanema - Stan Getz and Joao Gilberto							26			1250
22	29	Nobody I Know - Peter and Gordon						29	29		28	1155
25	30	Sweet William - Millie							28	30	30	935
		A Hard Day's Night (LP) - The Beatles					21	22		17		3200
		My Guy - Mary Wells					29=	30			24	795
		I Love You Because - Jim Reeves					29=				23	680
		Hello Dolly - Frankie Vaughan						28				600
		Have I The Right - The Honeycombs								25		600
		Why Not Tonight - The Mojos							30			250
		Dimples - John Lee Hooker									29	170

[MrTibbs]

Thanks Robbie. Appreciated.

[Robbie]

Thanks for posting the overall points total Brian. It's something I wouldn't have thought about asking for but it does add an extra bonus to your great presentation style of the Ultimate Averaged Chart that you are posting.

[MrTibbs]

Great minds and all that Robin, I had changed the BBC column colour to the same as the rest, didn't like it as I remembered I made it different in the first place to differentiate between it and the charts for compilation but forgot to change it back.
You want the points for albums too, no problem lol.

[RokinRobinOfLocksley]

Brian, maybe you'd like to shade the BBC column with a different colour so that it stands out slightly from the 4 component charts...

And how about including the LP total points? Even though you're not including LPs in the Top 30, you could still show the total points...

And how about shading RR EP cells with a different colour, to indicate that while RR didn't include EPs in their singles chart, you have assigned them a RR value so as not to penalize the EP in total points. I'm not saying put your assigned RR points in the RR cell, just shade the cell...

[MrTibbs]

Greetings Pop Pickers ! Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending 25th July 1964.

As mentioned yesterday all charts from here on will include the allocated points for your further interest.

Just to remind you, The BBC Charts are posted just for your information. They are NOT included in the Ultimate Averaged Chart calculations.

The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending July 25th 1964							BBC	NME	MM	Disc	RR	Total
Last	This						Chart	Chart	Chart	Chart	Chart	Points
Week	Week	Title and Artist					Number Of Chart Positions				30	Scored
1	1	A Hard Day's Night - The Beatles					1	1	1	1	1	19050
2	2	It's All Over Now - The Rolling Stones					2	2	2	2	2	18415
5	3	I Just Don't Know What To Do With Myself - Dusty Springfield					3	3	3	3	3	17780
3	4	House Of The Rising Sun - The Animals					4	4	5	4	5	16810
4	5	Hold Me - P J Proby					5	6	4	5	7	16390
13	6	Call Up The Groups - The Barron Knights					6	5	7	7	6	15725
6	7	I Won't Forget You - Jim Reeves					7	8	6	8	4	15445
23	8	Do Wah Diddy Diddy - Manfred Mann					8	7	8	6	9	14920
8	9	On The Beach - Cliff Richard					9	9	9	9	8	14055
21	10	Tobacco Road - The Nashville Teens					10	9	11	11	12	13015
11	11	Kissin' Cousins - Elvis Presley					11	13	10	14	11	12250
7	12	You're No Good - The Swinging Blue Jeans					12	12	14	10	14	11595
9	13	It's Over - Roy Orbison					13	17	13	13	10	10885
18	14	Someday We're Gonna Love Again - The Searchers					14	11	16	17	13	10680
17	15	Wishin' And Hopin' - The Merseybeats					16	15	12	19	16	10425
10	16	Someone Someone - Brian Poole and The Tremeloes					15	14	15	16	15	10260
14	17	Long Tall Sally (EP) - The Beatles					17	18	17	12		9309
12	18	Hello Dolly - Louis Armstrong					18	16	18	18	17	8740
15	19	Ramona - The Bachelors					19	21	19	15	18	7705
NEW	20	I Get Around - The Beach Boys					20	19	20	21	20	7085
NEW	21	It's Only Make Believe - Billy Fury					23	20	25	22		4600
16	22	Nobody I Know - Peter and Gordon					25	30	21	23	26	3925
20	23	Like Dreamers Do - The Applejacks					24	28	23	27	22	3765
NEW	24	(They Call Her) La Bamba - The Crickets					30	25	22			3450
24	25	Sweet William - Millie					27=	22	26	29		3250
22	26	My Guy - Mary Wells					21	24	29	28	19	3220
NEW	27	I Found Out The Hard Way - The Four Pennies					26		28	24	23	2130
28	28	Hello Dolly - Frankie Vaughan					27=	26		26	25	2010
27	29	Why Not Tonight - The Mojos							24			1750
19	30	Can't You See That She's Mine - The Dave Clark Five					27=			25	21	1450
		A Hard Day's Night (LP) - The Beatles					22	23		20
		From A Window - Billy J Kramer and The Dakotas							27			1000
		Chapel Of Love - The Dixie Cups						27		30	30	985
		You're My World - Cilla Black						29			27	740
		Dimples - John Lee Hooker									24	595
		I Love You Because - Jim Reeves							30		29	420
		Shout - Lulu and The Luvvers									28	255

[MrTibbs]

Greetings Pop Pickers ! Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending 18th July 1964.

The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending July 18th 1964							BBC	NME	MM	Disc	RR
Last	This						Chart	Chart	Chart	Chart	Chart
Week	Week	Title and Artist						Total Chart Positions			30
NEW	1	A Hard Day's Night - The Beatles					1	1	1	1	3
2	2	It's All Over Now - The Rolling Stones					2	2	2	2	1
1	3	House Of The Rising Sun - The Animals					3	3	3	3	2
3	4	Hold Me - P J Proby					4	4	4	4	5
16	5	I Just Don't Know What To Do With Myself - Dusty Springfield					5	5	5	5	6
7	6	I Won't Forget You - Jim Reeves					6	5	8	6	4
5	7	You're No Good - The Swinging Blue Jeans					7	8	6	8	8
13	8	On The Beach - Cliff Richard					8	7	10	7	9
4	9	It's Over - Roy Orbison					9	12	7	9	7
6	10	Someone Someone - Brian Poole and The Tremeloes					10	9	9	10	10
10	11	Kissin' Cousins - Elvis Presley					11	10	11	15	11
9	12	Hello Dolly - Louis Armstrong					12	13	12	12	13
NEW	13	Call Up The Groups - The Barron Knights					13	10	13	13	17
12	14	Long Tall Sally (EP) - The Beatles					15	14	14	14
8	15	Ramona - The Bachelors					14	17	15	11	12
11	16	Nobody I Know - Peter and Gordon					16	21	16	16	14
27	17	Wishin' And Hopin' - The Merseybeats					17	19	18	19	18
NEW	18	Someday We're Gonna Love Again - The Searchers					19	15	20	21	22
14	19	Can't You See That She's Mine - The Dave Clark Five					18	26	19	18	15
20	20	Like Dreamers Do - The Applejacks					21	24	17	26	21
28	21	Tobacco Road - The Nashville Teens					22	15	26	24	26
15	22	My Guy - Mary Wells					20	22	30	17	16
NEW	23	Do Wah Diddy Diddy - Manfred Mann					24=	25	23	23	30
25	24	Sweet William - Millie					24=	18	27	27
18	25	You're My World - Cilla Black					27	30	22		20
17	26	Shout - Lulu and The Lovers					26		24	28	19
NEW	27	Why Not Tonight - The Mojos					29		21		27
21	28	Hello Dolly - Frankie Vaughan					28	20		25
22	29	Chapel Of Love - The Dixie Cups							25	29	28
NEW	30	Near You - The Migil Five						23
		A Hard Day's Night (LP) - The Beatles					23	29		20
		I Get Around - The Beach Boys					30	28		22
		I Love You Because - Jim Reeves							29		25
		Dimples - John Lee Hooker							28		29
		Hello Dolly - Kenny Ball						27
		Here I Go Again - The Hollies								30	24
		The Rise And Fall Of Flingel Bunt - The Shadows									23

[MrTibbs]

You are spot on with that Robin. I actually heard a Pick Of The Pops chart rundown with Alan Freeman for that week some time back and it confirms Roy Orbison coming down from No 1.

By the way guys I'm just about to post the chart for 18th July, but I've had a few requests, Robin included, who helped me with the spreadsheet, to give the points as well for each chart position so from tomorrow I will post this information too.

Brian

[RokinRobinOfLocksley]

For you interested chart freaks, for the week ending 4 July 1964, the BBC gave the #1 to "House of the Rising Sun" at (1-1-1-6) = 9 fewest non-inverse chart points, instead of "It's Over" at (2-2-2-1) = 7 points. This was another case where Auntie Beeb invoked their special #1 override rule, where the BBC #1 goes to the record at #1 on most of the charts. Brian's # of dealers weighted calcs resulted in the #1 going to "House" without having to invoke his special #1 rule.

If you have the earlier version of the Trevor Ager/Dave Taylor BBC chart file, it shows "It's Over" at #1 for this week, but later corrected revised files give it back to "House". And multiple year-end historical documentation and next week audio evidence supports "House", we just don't yet have an actual audio or video tape for this week. "House" was #1 on 4 July 1964 despite multiple websites that give it to "It's Over", all of which were sourced from the earlier incorrect version of the Trevor/Dave BBC chart file.

Rock on...

[MrTibbs]

Greetings Pop Pickers ! Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending 11th July 1964.

On my copy of the BBC chart Jim Reeves was noted to be 7= but the Bachelors listed at 8 however it is clear that both scored 31 points from the 4 charts scores so both should indeed have been 7=.

The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending July 11th 1964							BBC	NME	MM	Disc	RR
Last	This						Chart	Chart	Chart	Chart	Chart
Week	Week	Title and Artist						Total Chart Positions			30
1	1	House Of The Rising Sun - The Animals					1	1	2	1	1
10	2	It's All Over Now - The Rolling Stones					2	2	1	2	2
4	3	Hold Me - P J Proby					3	3	3	3	3
2	4	It's Over - Roy Orbison					4	4	5	4	5
5	5	You're No Good - The Swinging Blue Jeans					5	5	4	5	7
3	6	Someone Someone - Brian Poole and The Tremeloes					6	6	6	6	4
12	7	I Won't Forget You - Jim Reeves					7=	7	7	9	8
7	8	Ramona - The Bachelors					7=	10	8	7	6
6	9	Hello Dolly - Louis Armstrong					9	8	9	8	9
15	10	Kissin' Cousins - Elvis Presley					10	9	10	12	10
8	11	Nobody I Know - Peter and Gordon					11	12	11	10	11
17	12	Long Tall Sally (EP) - The Beatles					12	11	15	11
27	13	On The Beach - Cliff Richard					13	13	14	14	13
13	14	Can't You See That She's Mine - The Dave Clark Five					14	17	12	13	14
9	15	My Guy - Mary Wells					15	16	13	16	12
NEW	16	I Just Don't Know What To Do With Myself - Dusty Springfield					16	14	19	15	18
14	17	Shout - Lulu and The Luvvers					17	19	16	19	17
11	18	You're My World - Cilla Black					18	26	17	18	15
16	19	Here I Go Again - The Hollies					19	24	20	17	16
22	20	Like Dreamers Do - The Applejacks					20	23	18	20	21
20	21	Hello Dolly - Frankie Vaughan					21	18	22	22	20
26	22	Chapel Of Love - The Dixie Cups					22	20	25	23	22
19	23	The Rise And Fall Of Flingel Bunt - The Shadows					23		21	21	19
25	24	Dimples - John Lee Hooker					24	27	23	26	24
30	25	Sweet William - Millie					26	15	30	29
18	26	I Love You Because - Jim Reeves					25	28	24	28	23
NEW	27	Wishin' And Hopin' - The Merseybeats					27	22		24	30
NEW	28	Tobacco Road - The Nashville Teens					28	21		27
24	29	Bama Lama Bama Loo - Little Richard					29=		27	30	26
21	30	No Particular Place To Go - Chuck Berry							26		28
		Why Not Tonight - The Mojos					29=	30	28		25
		Near You - The Migil Five						25
		Call Up The Groups - The Barron Knights						28		25
		Constantly - Cliff Richard							29
		Non Ho L'Eta Per Amarti - Gigliola Cinquetti									27
		Ain't She Sweet - The Beatles									29

[MrTibbs]

I would believe by this time by this time Graham that all charts were getting returns of more than a Top Ten, I know RR were from their meagre 85 returns.

[Graham76man]

Would these individual charts still be compiled from shops sending the top ten records, or had they expanded the figure on some?
Also the shops sending in LP's. Were they doing that because they were "thick" or just didn't really care about the list they sent in? I wonder if someone told them off for sending LP returns? Plus did most of the shops stick to the rules, sending only 45's returns, with just a few listing LP's? It would explain why the LP's don't get high positions. Especially as the new Beatles albums would have probably sold more than number one singles.
Lot's of questions I know, but somebody might know.

[kingofskiffle]

Test post to try something to see if an issue with the board software has been fixed for this thread.

[MrTibbs]

Greetings Pop Pickers ! Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending 4th July 1964.

The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending July 4th 1964							BBC	NME	MM	Disc	RR
Last	This						Chart	Chart	Chart	Chart	Chart
Week	Week	Title and Artist						Total Chart Positions			30
16	1	House Of The Rising Sun - The Animals					1	1	1	1	6
1	2	It's Over - Roy Orbison					2	2	2	2	1
2	3	Someone Someone - Brian Poole and The Tremeloes					3	3	4	3	2
13	4	Hold Me - P J Proby					4	5	3	4	5
9	5	You're No Good - The Swinging Blue Jeans					5	6	5	6	3
3	6	Hello Dolly - Louis Armstrong					7	4	6	7	8
5	7	Ramona - The Bachelors					6	8	7	5	4
8	8	Nobody I Know - Peter and Gordon					8	9	9	8	10
6	9	My Guy - Mary Wells					9	11	10	10	9
NEW	10	It's All Over Now - The Rolling Stones					12	7	8	11	25
4	11	You're My World - Cilla Black					10	12	14	9	7
19	12	I Won't Forget You - Jim Reeves					11	10	13	14	12
11	13	Can't You See That She's Mine - The Dave Clark Five					13	16	12	15	11
10	14	Shout - Lulu and The Luvvers					14	17	11	17	13
25	15	Kissin' Cousins - Elvis Presley					15	14	16	12	17
7	16	Here I Go Again - The Hollies					16	15	15	16	14
NEW	17	Long Tall Sally (EP) - The Beatles					17	13	20	13
18	18	I Love You Because - Jim Reeves					21	21	13	21	16
12	19	The Rise And Fall Of Flingel Bunt - The Shadows					18	20	17	18	15
20	20	Hello Dolly - Frankie Vaughan					19	18	22	19	18
14	21	No Particular Place To Go - Chuck Berry					20	22	19	20	19
26	22	Like Dreamers Do - The Applejacks					22	30	18	22	20
15	23	Constantly - Cliff Richard					23	28	21	26	21
22	24	Bama Lama Bama Loo - Little Richard					25	25	24	27	22
23	25	Dimples - John Lee Hooker					24	24	26	24	23
30	26	Chapel Of Love - The Dixie Cups					26	23	27	25	26
NEW	27	On The Beach - Cliff Richard					27	18		23
21	28	Non Ho L'Eta Per Amarti - Gigliola Cinquetti					28		25	29	28
27	29	Ain't She Sweet - The Beatles					29=		28	28	29
NEW	30	Sweet William - Millie						26		30
		Why Not Tonight - The Mojos						30	29		27
		Juliet - The Four Pennies					29=		30		24
		Hello Dolly - Kenny Ball						27
		I Just Don't Know What To Do With Myself - Dusty Springfield						29
		Don't Let The Rain Come Down - Ronnie Hilton									30

[MrTibbs]

Guys thanks for all that and here are a few replies for u. Trevor, thanks I have added that new entry sign. Membrane, I had added just under No 30 that on points The Beatles would have entered at 2. Because No 1 is a special position only No 1 records are considered, firstly as on most charts and then by points if split between papers. This also ties into what Robin was saying. I agree I don't want special rules, only this one alone for No 1 and all other positions are consistently compiled year on year as per outlined at the start of the thread.

More charts for u tomorrow .

[RokinRobinOfLocksley]

Brian, please do continue along with this thread. You are giving us important history, in multiple ways: (a) you’re giving us the charts as they were, (b) you’re exposing the weaknesses of Record Retailer (!!!), (c) you’re giving us a better combo chart than the BBC.

I understand your reasoning for your #1 override rule (like the BBC), and I don’t disagree necessarily with the outcome, but I’m slightly squeamish in general about the philosophy of creating special rules.

Another way around this would be to throw out the furthest outlier chart position of each record, but that would be complicated with # of record dealer weightings. Perhaps better to throw out Record Retailer all together, ha!

Another thought would be to assign chart position points based on the Michael Cable table of 1976 chart data, of actual record sales in % terms vs. chart position, and then apply the # of record dealer weightings. Where a #1 record averaged out to 9.51% of weekly sales, down to a #50 record at 0.32% of weekly sales. When using these numbers and the # of dealer weightings, for 28 Mar 1964 “Can’t Buy Me Love” (1-1-1-8) did indeed come out at #1, with 5440.45 points vs. 4179.85 points for “Little Children” (2-2-2-1).

But a big question is why did most Beatle records debut at #1 on all charts most of the time except for Record Retailer? True, NME and Disc included pre-orders in their numbers, while Melody Maker and Record Retailer did not. You could say The Beatles sold so many records their debut week that pre-orders didn’t make a difference one way or the other. Except Record Retailer was so lagging with no debuts at #1, why? Did half their shops not receive Beatle records on time? Or did those RR shops send in their sales returns early before the weekend was over, so they would arrive on time? Or did some RR shops cheat to get their sales in on time, by not reporting on Mon-Sat sales, but instead opted for Sat-Fri sales, thus shifting Saturday sales into the next week’s chart? Something was definitely amiss here. Yet another reason why RR was the least historical representative chart for the 60s.

As stated before, the BBC did a straight average of the other charts, but only included RR when it arrived on time, and on multiple/many occasions from 1962 to 1966 it did not. With Brian’s data, we can now do a straight flat average of the component charts (or get Brian to add that column!), compare it to the actual BBC chart positions, and detect when the BBC did not include RR for a given week. Or there could be other errors on a given week as well.

When it was mentioned by Alan Smith and/or Dave Taylor that Derek Chinnery let his daughter do BBC chart calculations, I should emphasize that I don’t read this as his daughter did this frequently, I would rather think sporadically. How old was his daughter?

I would like to see a “total chart points” column in these weekly Ultimate Charts.

Relating to Brian’s other thread on RM dealer charts 1954-55, I had mentioned that a graph curve of combo chart positions vs. total dealer chart inverse points looks very, very similar to a graph curve of combo chart positions vs. total record sales (from Michael Cable’s book). Adjusted for chart size and curve end points, the curve slopes of the two during their durations match up quite well. A family of very closely related curves even though they may not be identical at every point. I even did a test of one week of RM dealer charts, calculating the combo chart from total inverse points, and again from Michael Cable % sales weightings, and the results were remarkably similar curve wise. Though all the records didn’t match up exactly between the two methods; for example the #7 and #8 records might get swapped one method to the other. But as an approximate method, when you have nothing else to go by, total inverse points is a meaningful option, and was most reasonable for NME, RM, MM, Disc, and RR to use for the 50s & 60s. Curve wise not that far off from the better method of adding up of actual record sales. But it would help to see more BMRB/BARS data of the early 70s to flesh this out a little more. Would love to see more of those reports one day.

Keep going Brian !!!

[Graham76man]

This is the advanced - meaning it could be altered - Real Chart for 28 June, which will cover Brian's next chart.

1 The Animals - House of the Rising Sun
2 The Rolling Stones - It's all over now
3 P.J. Proby - Hold me
4 Brian Poole and The Tremeloes - Someone someone
5 Swinging Blue Jeans - You're no good
6 Roy Orbison - It's over
7 Mary Wells - My guy
8 Peter And Gordon - Nobody I know
9 Dave Clark Five - Can't you see that she's mine
10 The Bachelors - Ramona
11 Louis Armstrong - Hello Dolly
12 Cilla Black - You're my world
13 Frankie Vaughan - Hello Dolly
14 Lulu and The Luvvers - Shout
15 Jim Reeves - I Won't forget you
16 The Hollies - Here I go again
17 Dixie Cups - Chapel of love
18 John Lee Hooker - Dimples
19 The Beatles - Ain't she sweet
20 Cliff Richard and the Shadows - On the beach
21 Buddy Holly - You've got love
22 Elvis Presley - Kissin' cousins
23 The Applejacks - Like dreamers do
24 Chuck Berry No particular place to go
25 The Shadows - The rise and fall of Flingel Bunt
26 Cliff Richard - Constantly
27 Little Richard - Bama lama bama loo
28 The Mojos - Why not tonight
29 Dusty Springfield - I just don't know what to do with myself
30 The Four Pennies - Juliet

This is the only week in 1964 I really got to work on, apart from the last chart of the year, which I needed for the first 1965 last week!
The Animals had climbed to the top that week from number 10, so NME chart was spot on for the position and Mary Wells fell from 1 to 7. I believe that the Stones were new at two!

[trebor]

NOTE:
membranemusic & Robbie
Have moved this post from "Chart History" to here

[Robbie]

Hi membranemusic. I think you may have posted your reply in the wrong thread?