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The Ultimate Averaged Chart - The BBC Chart Re-Imagined

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  • MrTibbs
    replied
    The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending February 15th 1964 BBC NME RM MM Disc RR
    Last This Chart Chart Chart Chart Chart Chart
    Week Week Title and Artist Total Chart Positions 30
    1 1 Needles And Pins - The Searchers 1 1 1 1 1
    2 2 I'm The One - Gerry and The Pacemakers 2 2 2 2 2
    8 3 Diane - The Bachelors 3 3 3 3 3
    7 4 5 4 3 2 1 - Manfred Mann 4 4 4 4 5
    3 5 Hippy Hippy Shake - The Swinging Blue Jeans 5 5 5 5 4
    5 6 As Usual - Brenda Lee 7 8 6 7 7
    26 7 Anyone Who Had A Heart - Cilla Black 8 5 8 6 10
    4 8 Glad All Over - The Dave Clark Five 6 7 7 8 6
    13 9 I Think Of You - The Merseybeats 9 9 9 9 9
    18 10 Candy Man - Brian Poole and The Tremeloes 10 11 11 10 13
    9 11 Don't Blame Me - Frank Ifield 11 14 10 14 8
    20 12 I'm The Lonely One - Cliff Richard 12 10 13 11 14
    14 13 Baby I Love You - The Ronettes 13 13 12 12 12
    6 14 Twenty Four Hours From Tulsa - Gene Pitney 14 12 15 13 11
    10 15 I Want To Hold Your Hand - The Beatles 15 16 14 15 15
    11 16 Stay - The Hollies 17 18 17 16 19
    28 17 All My Loving (EP) - The Beatles 16 15 20 17
    15 18 I'm In Love - The Fourmost 18 19 16 20 18
    21 19 For You - Rick Nelson 19 22 19 19 16
    12 20 I Only Want To Be With You - Dusty Springfield 20 23 18 21 17
    17 21 Swinging On A Star - Big Dee Irwin 22 21 23 26 20
    22 22 The Rolling Stones (EP) - The Rolling Stones 21 20 27 18
    24 23 Louie Louie - The Kingsmen 23 16 28 22 26
    16 24 We Are In Love - Adam Faith 24 25 21 23 25
    19 25 Do You Really Love Me Too - Billy Fury 25 28 22 24 22
    NEW 26 Boys Cry - Eden Kane 26 26 25 25 24
    25 27 Whispering - Nino Tempo and April Stevens 27 24 28 23
    23 28 She Loves You - The Beatles 28 26 29 21
    NEW 29 Eight By Ten - Ken Dodd 29 24 29 27
    30 30 My Baby Left Me - Dave Berry 30= 27
    Top Six No 1 (EP) - Various Artists 29
    I Wanna Be Your Man - The Rolling Stones 30= 27
    Kiss Me Quick - Elvis Presley 30 30
    Nadine - Chuck Berry 30 30
    If I Ruled The World - Harry Secombe 28
    Um Um Um Um Um Um - Major Lance 30
    Maria Elena - Los Indios Tabajaras 29

    Leave a comment:


  • Splodj
    replied
    The inverse method also gives the same score to those records - just that it is zero instead of 31. That is why I say there is no inherent difference between the two methods.

    But the point I was making is that the BBC avoided this distortion in any case by presenting to the public only the Top 20. The records for which they allocated 31 points were invariably in the 21-30 section which they calculated only for their private use.

    Leave a comment:


  • MrTibbs
    replied
    The big disadvantage as you probably already know with that system though Splodj was that by using the 21 points for a record outside a Top 20, and later 31 for outside the Top 30 this awarded equal points to all such records irregardless of what position they would have held outside the chart so this in effect let to fundamental inaccuracy.

    Leave a comment:


  • MrTibbs
    replied
    The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending February 8th 1964 BBC NME RM MM Disc RR
    Last This Chart Chart Chart Chart Chart Chart
    Week Week Title and Artist Total Chart Positions 30
    1 1 Needles And Pins - The Searchers 1 1 1 1 1
    4 2 I'm The One - Gerry and The Pacemakers 2 2 2 2 2
    2 3 Hippy Hippy Shake - The Swinging Blue Jeans 3 3 3 3 3
    3 4 Glad All Over - The Dave Clark Five 4 5 4 4 4
    10 5 As Usual - Brenda Lee 5 7 5 5 5
    5 6 Twenty Four Hours From Tulsa - Gene Pitney 6 8 6 6 6
    13 7 5 4 3 2 1 - Manfred Mann 7 6 8 7 9
    19 8 Diane - The Bachelors 8 4 11 8 8
    9 9 Don't Blame Me - Frank Ifield 9 9 7 9 10
    6 10 I Want To Hold Your Hand - The Beatles 10 10 9 11 7
    8 11 Stay - The Hollies 11 11 10 10 12
    7 12 I Only Want To Be With You - Dusty Springfield 12 13 12 13 11
    17 13 I Think Of You - The Merseybeats 13 12 13 12 15
    21 14 Baby I Love You - The Ronettes 14 16 14 14 13
    16 15 I'm In Love - The Fourmost 15 15 15 15 17
    12 16 We Are In Love - Adam Faith 16 21 17 17 18
    11 17 Swinging On A Star - Big Dee Irwin 17 23 16 18 16
    30 18 Candy Man - Brian Poole and The Tremeloes 19 17 19 19 22
    15 19 Do You Really Love Me Too - Billy Fury 18 22 18 20 14
    NEW 20 I'm The Lonely One - Cliff Richard 20 14 26 16 23
    26 21 For You - Rick Nelson 21 25 21 23 21
    22 22 The Rolling Stones (EP) - The Rolling Stones 22 24 23 21
    14 23 She Loves You - The Beatles 23 29 22 25 19
    25 24 Louie Louie - The Kingsmen 26= 18 27 26
    27 25 Whispering - Nino Tempo and April Stevens 24= 20 28 20
    NEW 26 Anyone Who Had A Heart - Cilla Black 24= 18 22 28
    20 27 I Wanna Be Your Man - The Rolling Stones 26= 27 24 27 24
    NEW 28 All My Loving (EP) - The Beatles 28 18 24
    18 29 Kiss Me Quick - Elvis Presley 29 28 25 25
    NEW 30 My Baby Left Me - Dave Berry 30= 26
    Maria Elena - Los Indios Tabajaras 28
    You Were Made For Me - Freddie and The Dreamers 29 30
    If I Ruled The World - Harry Secombe 30= 26
    Eight By Ten - Ken Dodd 30 29
    Boys Cry - Eden Kane 30 30
    Secret Love - Kathy Kirby 27
    Dominique - The Singing Nun 29
    Last edited by MrTibbs; Fri June 19, 2020, 22:51.

    Leave a comment:


  • Splodj
    replied
    Important to bear in mind that the BBC presented their chart as a Top 20. On the recording above, Alan Freeman back announces 54321 at number 12 as a new entry, not a climber from 21.

    By calculating 21-30 they avoided the distortions in the Top 20 that would have occurred by allocating 21 points to the 'others'. The 'others' to which they allocated 31 points are almost always outside the 20.

    Leave a comment:


  • Splodj
    commented on 's reply
    Great to hear.

    Whoever recorded it has skipped Dusty Springfield at number 7!

  • MrTibbs
    replied
    Yeah the fact that the BBC made quite a few errors some already known some yet to be discovered like yours above was the initial driving force behind my goal to re-compile these charts but with the addition of store returns factored in to make them much more robust and balanced.

    Leave a comment:


  • Splodj
    replied
    A couple more apparent mistakes in previous BBC charts ...

    - 18th January : Maria Elena got 73 points and should have tied at number 16 with Gerry and Brenda, not been at 18.

    - 25th January : The Beatles got 45 points and should have tied with Brenda at number 10, not tied with Billy at 13.

    Leave a comment:


  • Woz1234
    replied
    Originally posted by Splodj View Post
    When I try to recreate the BBC chart I get 6 records in different positions:

    11 Big Dee Irwin (46 points) BBC-13
    12 Adam Faith (47 points) BBC-11
    13 Manfred Mann (50 points) BBC-12

    16 Fourmost (67 points) BBC-17
    17 Merseybeats (71 points) BBC-18
    18 Presley (76 points) BBC-16

    This could have been caused by only two mistakes - demoting Irwin and promoting Presley.
    You have BBC chart positions right,

    https://www.mixcloud.com/peteseaton/...reeman-020264/

    Starts off with Manfred Mann at #12 & then Merseybeat at #18

    Leave a comment:


  • Splodj
    replied
    And yes Brian I did notice that the positions my calculations put them in are the same as in your chart!

    Leave a comment:


  • Splodj
    replied
    When I try to recreate the BBC chart I get 6 records in different positions:

    11 Big Dee Irwin (46 points) BBC-13
    12 Adam Faith (47 points) BBC-11
    13 Manfred Mann (50 points) BBC-12

    16 Fourmost (67 points) BBC-17
    17 Merseybeats (71 points) BBC-18
    18 Presley (76 points) BBC-16

    This could have been caused by only two mistakes - demoting Irwin and promoting Presley.
    Last edited by Splodj; Thu June 18, 2020, 19:39.

    Leave a comment:


  • MrTibbs
    replied
    The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending February 1st 1964 BBC NME RM MM Disc RR
    Last This Chart Chart Chart Chart Chart Chart
    Week Week Title and Artist Total Chart Positions 30
    6 1 Needles And Pins - The Searchers 1 1 1 1 1
    2 2 Hippy Hippy Shake - The Swinging Blue Jeans 2 2 2 2 3
    1 3 Glad All Over - The Dave Clark Five 3 3 3 3 2
    7 4 I'm The One - Gerry and The Pacemakers 4 4 4 4 4
    4 5 Twenty Four Hours From Tulsa - Gene Pitney 5 5 5 5 7
    3 6 I Want To Hold Your Hand - The Beatles 6 6 6 6 6
    5 7 I Only Want To Be With You - Dusty Springfield 7 7 8 9 5
    8 8 Stay - The Hollies 8 8 7 8 8
    11 9 Don't Blame Me - Frank Ifield 10 8 10 10 10
    12 10 As Usual - Brenda Lee 9 10 11 7 9
    9 11 Swinging On A Star - Big Dee Irwin 13 12 9 13 12
    13 12 We Are In Love - Adam Faith 11 13 12 11 11
    20 13 5 4 3 2 1 - Manfred Mann 12 10 14 12 14
    10 14 She Loves You - The Beatles 15 18 13 15 16
    14 15 Do You Really Love Me Too - Billy Fury 14 16 17 14 13
    17 16 I'm In Love - The Fourmost 17 15 15 17 20
    NEW 17 I Think Of You - The Merseybeats 18 20 16 16 19
    15 18 Kiss Me Quick - Elvis Presley 16 22 18 21 15
    NEW 19 Diane - The Bachelors 19 14 24 18 22
    16 20 I Wanna Be Your Man - The Rolling Stones 20 22 21 19 17
    22 21 Baby I Love You - The Ronettes 21 25 19 23 18
    23 22 The Rolling Stones (EP) - The Rolling Stones 22 19 29 20
    19 23 Dominique - The Singing Nun 23 20 24 24
    21 24 Secret Love - Kathy Kirby 24 23 25 21
    28 25 Louie Louie - The Kingsmen 28 17 27
    NEW 26 For You - Rick Nelson 25= 20 22 30
    30 27 Whispering - Nino Tempo and April Stevens 27 26 26 26 26
    18 28 You Were Made For Me - Freddie and The Dreamers 25= 22 25
    24 29 Maria Elena - Los Indios Tabajaras 30 25 30 23
    NEW 30 Candy Man - Brian Poole and The Tremeloes 24 29
    The Dave Clark Five (EP) - The Dave Clark Five 29 28 28
    If I Ruled The World - Harry Secombe 27 28
    Song Of Mexico - Tony Meehan 27
    Twist And Shout (EP) - The Beatles 30 28
    My Baby Left Me - Dave Berry 29
    You'll Never Walk Alone - Gerry and The Pacemakers 27
    Don't Talk To Him - Cliff Richard 30
    Geronimo - The Shadows 29
    Last edited by MrTibbs; Fri June 19, 2020, 10:44.

    Leave a comment:


  • MrTibbs
    replied
    The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending January 25th 1964 BBC NME RM MM Disc RR
    Last This Chart Chart Chart Chart Chart Chart
    Week Week Title and Artist Total Chart Positions 30
    1 1 Glad All Over - The Dave Clark Five 1 1 1 2 1
    3 2 Hippy Hippy Shake - The Swinging Blue Jeans 2 2 2 1 2
    2 3 I Want To Hold Your Hand - The Beatles 3 3 3 3 3
    4 4 Twenty Four Hours From Tulsa - Gene Pitney 4 7 4 4 5
    5 5 I Only Want To Be With You - Dusty Springfield 5 6 5 7 4
    22 6 Needles And Pins - The Searchers 6 4 9 6 6
    16 7 I'm The One - Gerry and The Pacemakers 7 5 8 5 10
    8 8 Stay - The Hollies 9 8 6 8 12
    6 9 Swinging On A Star - Big Dee Irwin 8 9 7 9 7
    7 10 She Loves You - The Beatles 13= 14 10 13 8
    18 11 Don't Blame Me - Frank Ifield 11= 11 12 12 13
    17 12 As Usual - Brenda Lee 10 10 15 11 9
    13 13 We Are In Love - Adam Faith 11= 16 11 10 11
    15 14 Do You Really Love Me Too - Billy Fury 13= 15 13 14 17
    12 15 Kiss Me Quick - Elvis Presley 15 18 14 17 14
    11 16 I Wanna Be Your Man - The Rolling Stones 16 17 17 15 15
    25 17 I'm In Love - The Fourmost 17 12 19 18 21
    9 18 You Were Made For Me - Freddie and The Dreamers 19 20 16 19 20
    10 19 Dominique - The Singing Nun 18 21 18 16 16
    NEW 20 5 4 3 2 1 - Manfred Mann 21 12 26 22 27
    14 21 Secret Love - Kathy Kirby 20 24 20 21 18
    26 22 Baby I Love You - The Ronettes 22 24 22 20 23
    NEW 23 The Rolling Stones (EP) - The Rolling Stones 23 19 25 24
    19 24 Maria Elena - Los Indios Tabajaras 24 29 21 29 19
    NEW 25 The Dave Clark Five (EP) - The Dave Clark Five 25 28 24 25
    20 26 Don't Talk To Him - Cliff Richard 26 23 28 30 26
    23 27 Twist And Shout (EP) - The Beatles 27 30 23 28
    NEW 28 Louie Louie - The Kingsmen 22
    21 29 You'll Never Walk Alone - Gerry and The Pacemakers 28 27 22
    30 30 Whispering - Nino Tempo and April Stevens 30 26 26
    I Think Of You - The Mersybeats 29 29 23 29
    Geronimo - The Shadows 30 24
    Not Too Little Not Too Much - Chris Sandford 25
    If I Ruled The World - Harry Secombe 27 30
    Money - Bern Elliot and The Fenmen 28
    Sat It Isn't So - Frank Ifield 27

    Leave a comment:


  • Robbie
    replied
    Originally posted by Metalweb View Post

    How old was Heinz when he died?

    Sorry, completely off topic but couldn't resist one of my favourite pub quiz questions....

    I must admit I had to look up how old he was when he died but given your post I had a feeling I knew what the answer would be..!

    Leave a comment:


  • Metalweb
    replied
    Originally posted by Woz1234 View Post
    Country Boy by Heinz was at #27 in Record Retailer that week, Good chart.
    How old was Heinz when he died?

    Sorry, completely off topic but couldn't resist one of my favourite pub quiz questions....

    Leave a comment:


  • MrTibbs
    replied
    Here is the next chart for 18th January 1964. It's proving very interesting. Just take a look at how close it actually is to the BBC chart. So the additional store returns are smoothing it out and fine tuning the average chart without causing major disruption. I'm liking this.
    The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending January 18th 1964 BBC NME RM MM Disc RR
    Last This Chart Chart Chart Chart Chart Chart
    Week Week Title and Artist Total Chart Positions 30
    1 1 Glad All Over - The Dave Clark Five 1 1 1 1 1
    2 2 I Want To Hold Your Hand - The Beatles 2= 3 2 3 2
    3 3 Hippy Hippy Shake - The Swinging Blue Jeans 2= 2 3 2 3
    5 4 Twenty Four Hours From Tulsa - Gene Pitney 4 4 4 4 6
    4 5 I Only Want To Be With You - Dusty Springfield 5 5 5 5 4
    7 6 Swinging On A Star - Big Dee Irwin 6 6 6 6 7
    6 7 She Loves You - The Beatles 7 7 7 8 5
    12 8 Stay - The Hollies 8 8 8 7 8
    8 9 You Were Made For Me - Freddie and The Dreamers 9 10 9 11 9
    9 10 Dominique - The Singing Nun 10 12 10 9 10
    11 11 I Wanna Be Your Man - The Rolling Stones 11 9 12 12 14
    13 12 Kiss Me Quick - Elvis Presley 12 11 11 13 15
    18 13 We Are In Love - Adam Faith 13 13 15 10 13
    10 14 Secret Love - Kathy Kirby 14 15 13 14 12
    20 15 Do You Really Love Me Too - Billy Fury 15 16 14 17 17
    NEW 16 I'm The One - Gerry and The Pacemakers 16= 13 22 15 23
    NEW 17 As Usual - Brenda Lee 16= 17 20 20 16
    NEW 18 Don't Blame Me - Frank Ifield 19 18 21 16 19
    14 19 Maria Elena - Los Indios Tabajaras 18 27 16 19 11
    15 20 Don't Talk To Him - Cliff Richard 20 20 17 25 21
    16 21 You'll Never Walk Alone - Gerry and The Pacemakers 21 22 18 23 20
    NEW 22 Needles And Pins - The Searchers 22 18 25 18 26
    19 23 Twist And Shout (EP) - The Beatles 23 24 23 24
    17 24 Geronimo - The Shadows 24 30 19 26 22
    26 25 I'm In Love - The Fourmost 25= 21 27 21
    30 26 Baby I Love You - The Ronettes 27 22 30 22 27
    22 27 Not Too Little Not Too Much - Chris Sandford 25= 24 27 18
    23 28 Money - Bern Elliot and The Fenmen 28 26 24
    24 29 If I Ruled The World - Harry Secombe 29 29 28 25
    NEW 30 Whispering - Nino Tempo and April Stevens 25
    The Beatles Hits (EP) - The Beatles 30 28 29
    The Rolling Stones (EP) - The Rolling Stones 28
    5 4 3 2 1 - Manfredd Mann 29
    I Think Of You - The Merseybeats 30 30
    Hungry For Love - Johnny Kidd and The Pirates 28
    Louie Louie - The Kingsmen 30
    Buddy Holly - What To Do 29
    At The Palace - Wilfrid Bramble and Harry H Corbett 30
    Say It Isn't So - Frank Ifield 26

    Leave a comment:


  • MrTibbs
    replied
    OK guys here is the next chart for 11th January, I have altered the bottom end to just give music paper positions for the records that did not make the Top 30, this allows better focus on the actual Top 30 and improves the overall layout. The records that were outside last week's Top 30 you will note are treated as New Entries in the actual Top 30 this week.
    What is interesting is that whilst totally removing joint positions, factoring individual store returns just makes subtle changes to the chart compared to the BBC chart so dispels the suspicion that the largest returns by MM would dominate in it's favour. So all in all a well balanced chart I would say and minus ties.

    The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending January 11th 1964 BBC NME RM MM Disc RR
    Last This Chart Chart Chart Chart Chart Chart
    Week Week Title and Artist Total Chart Positions 30
    2 1 Glad All Over - The Dave Clark Five 1= 2 1 1 2
    1 2 I Want To Hold Your Hand - The Beatles 1= 1 2 2 1
    10 3 Hippy Hippy Shake - The Swinging Blue Jeans 3 3 3 3 3
    5 4 I Only Want To Be With You - Dusty Springfield 4 5 4 5 4
    7 5 Twenty Four Hours From Tulsa - Gene Pitney 5 4 5 4 6
    3 6 She Loves You - The Beatles 6 6 6 6 5
    9 7 Swinging On A Star - Big Dee Irwin 7 7 8 8 8
    6 8 You Were Made For Me - Freddie and The Dreamers 8 8 9 7 7
    4 9 Dominique - The Singing Nun 9 9 7 9 10
    8 10 Secret Love - Kathy Kirby 10 10 10 10 9
    12 11 I Wanna Be Your Man - The Rolling Stones 11 11 11 12 12
    19 12 Stay - The Hollies 12 11 12 13 11
    17 13 Kiss Me Quick - Elvis Presley 13 13 14 11 15
    11 14 Maria Elena - Los Indios Tabajaras 14 15 13 14 13
    13 15 Don't Talk To Him - Cliff Richard 15 14 15 17 14
    16 16 You'll Never Walk Alone - Gerry and The Pacemakers 16 18 17 15 17
    14 17 Geronimo - The Shadows 18 19 16 19 18
    22 18 We Are In Love - Adam Faith 17 20 18 16 16
    15 19 Twist And Shout (EP) - The Beatles 19 16 19 20
    26 20 Do You Really Love Me Too - Billy Fury 20 17 22 18 20
    20 21 The Beatles Hits (EP) - The Beatles 22 22 20 24
    18 22 Not Too Little Not Too Much - Chris Sandford 21 23 23 21 19
    23 23 Money - Bern Elliot and The Fenmen 23 24 21 22 23
    27 24 If I Ruled The World - Harry Secombe 25 26 25 25 21
    21 25 I'll Keep You Satisfied - Billy J Kramer and The Dakotas 26 28 24 28 22
    NEW 26 I'm In Love - The Fourmost 27 25 23
    NEW 27 Hungry For Love - Johnny Kidd and The Pirates 28 29 28 24
    29 28 What To Do - Buddy Holly 29= 26 27
    30 29 At The Palace - Wilfrid Brambell and Harry H Corbett 27 25
    NEW 30 Baby I Love You - The Ronettes 29= 26 27
    Beatles No 1 (EP) - The Beatles 30 29
    Country Boy - Heinz 30 26
    I (Who Have Nothing) - Shirley Bassey 28
    Don't Blame Me - Frank Ifield 29
    As Usual - Brenda Lee 29
    Poison Ivy - The Paramounts 30
    It's Almost Tomorrow - Mark Wynter 30
    With The Beatles (LP) - The Beatles 24 20 26

    Leave a comment:


  • trebor
    commented on 's reply
    Please do not quote full charts! Thank you

  • MrTibbs
    replied
    Yeah Roadie it was, but somehow got deleted from the spreadsheet grrrr. I have re-entered it. Thanks for picking that up.

    Leave a comment:


  • Graham76man
    replied
    Originally posted by MrTibbs View Post
    ...it was well known that positions 31 to 50 were unreliable in RR as we're MM who also had the row over hyping in their 31 to 50 positions. So it is a Top 30 but with the records falling outside this numbered from 31 to show their relative positioning.
    ...With no way of knowing accurate sales figures for this period I believe this is the best chance we will ever have to reflect how an all encompassing chart of the time should have looked.
    Actually Brian I have compiled the top 100 from 1965 and 1966 and I am currently doing the 1967 charts, which of course use sales and not points and take out fiddles. Though to be honest at this period the fiddles were not to bad. I have come across more fiddles doing the 2000 charts! I have marked up the known none entries with a red colour on the Word files I use and compared with the RR 50 from the 60's there are more on the 75 than the 50. Since what was often being fiddled was selling anyway. Just not in the few hundred stores these charts used. I have documented the big hype of Jeff Beck's - Hi Ho Silver Lining, which even got into the 30's selling under 7,000. Not enough to put it in the 100! While the Attack's version was ignored by the other charts and made the top 20! Beck's hype being the thing that triggered the reduction of the top 50 to 30 on the Melody Maker chart, probably! The 1965 chart features the last Woolworth's Embassy records, which had become EP's by this point. Link to the charts below.

    https://therealchart.blogspot.com/p/...0s-charts.html

    Apart from the LP's on the above charts "At The Palace - Wilfrid Brambell and Harry H Corbett" Would also be excluded not for being hyped, but being all "talk". It's just a recording of Steptoe and Sons!

    I would have done the 1964 charts, but the release dates information on 45 Cat was very poor at the date I started doing the 60's chart. So it was best to start in 1965. Prior to 1963 records were still issued on the month, as in the Missing Charts book 1940-52. But from 1963 onwards they went weekly on a Friday. But even in 1964 dates were patchy. Even if the dates were good now. It couldn't be done to get a full list of what was released each week. As some stupid idiot at 45 Cat decided to cut results in the search from 100 to just 50 - this year! Making it impossible to get full results.

    Leave a comment:


  • Woz1234
    replied
    Originally posted by MrTibbs
    With The Beatles (LP) - The Beatles. 20 9
    Was "With The Beatles" (LP) still #14 in the BBC Chart?

    Leave a comment:


  • Splodj
    replied
    The corresponding points system may have tempted them to award 21 points to outsiders, but with a bit more consideration they could have awarded the actual 21-30 positions - which is why I maintain there is no inherent difference, just that the corresponding points system is more likely to lead you astray.

    With regard to LPs, wouldn't it be better to have them either completely in (a la BBC) or completely out? Out would be my preference, as the NME ended up being the only one to include them.

    Leave a comment:


  • MrTibbs
    replied
    NME was a Top 30 at this time, as was DISC, MM was predominantly also a Top 30 although it flirted with a Top 50 off and on briefly so it made sense to keep this chart to a Top 30 too but including and giving chart positions to all records that made a Top 30. Much more accurate as it was well known that positions 31 to 50 were unreliable in RR as we're MM who also had the row over hyping in their 31 to 50 positions. So it is a Top 30 but with the records falling outside this numbered from 31 to show their relative positioning.

    The store numbers do make a difference but not as much as you would think. If you look at the first chart above the differences by and large are subtle but effective. Whereas the BBC treated all charts equally it has long been argued here and wider that MM and NME were the charts using the larger sample so it is right to see that represented in the chart of charts. I am using Alan Smith's researched data for this and not just a figure from my head. As with my previous thread I want these charts to be as accurate as possible with all the information we have and are likely to have.

    Keep enjoying and watch the new averaged chart unfold telling the real story of the time with inconsistencies ironed out and balance restored. With no way of knowing accurate sales figures for this period I believe this is the best chance we will ever have to reflect how an all encompassing chart of the time should have looked.

    Leave a comment:


  • Metalweb
    replied
    Originally posted by Splodj View Post
    I suppose the BBC system could be called the corresponding points method. It is a bit of a red herring because there is no inherent difference between it and the inverse points method.

    TOTP spread the idea of the chart to a lot of people who had not been particularly interested in pop music hitherto, so I think this is a good week to start.
    Surely there is an inherent difference.....the treatment of records not in the chart/s.

    The inverse points system is so much more logical I'm amazed the BBC never thought of it....

    Leave a comment:


  • Graham76man
    replied
    I sort of think this is a good idea. It would have been really good if the BBC chart was a well known chart. But apart from when it was TOTP at the time, it's never become an iconic chart and is rarely published. So what you are doing is probably reproducing a new chart for the 60's in many ways.
    One thing I would say about any point based chart is the size is limited to whatever the smallest chart is. So as NME never went over 30. You can only have an accurate top 30. Even if some of the charts were 100 strong. Which for a time a 100 was produced in one of the papers. The reason you need to stick to a 30 is that some records will start to cue to get into the 30, the bigger you make the chart. Due to the top 31 to 100 slots being not common to all charts. And it's likely that some records would follow a pattern in the charts, if the charts were all the same size. For example a record might enter at 49 move to 37 and then 32 before entering the top 30. And this would be repeated with the odd variation on every chart.
    For this reason if I were doing them I would produce a top 30 and have the rest as numbered breakers. Even if a record was going down.

    Not certain how you figure the numbers of shops used to a points figure? That too could produce a cue in places even in the 30. Since the Melody Maker has the most shops it will tend to dominate the 30 and as it became a 50 a low new entry could make the 30.
    Rather like the Official chart when it was just downloads. I-tunes having all the chart slots and the rest of the sellers having no effect in it's charts.

    Leave a comment:

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