Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

The Ultimate Averaged Chart - The BBC Chart Re-Imagined

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Yeah Graham they both worked in The State Hospital at Carstairs in forensic psychiatry, and were appalled at me wanting to buy that record. The lecture I got lol

    Comment


    • I remember hearing an interview with Jerry Samuels (just googled his real name) in which he claimed he knew several psychiatric patients and they all loved his record!

      This must have been in the early 70s when the single was re-issued, made the breakers and almost re-charted.

      Wonder where the cliché of asylum inmates thinking they're Napoleon comes from - presumably it pre-dates this.....

      Comment


      • I did some research into the people thinking they were famous people in mental hospitals connected with the re-incarnation thing where lots of people have had past lives as Cleopatra and Napoleon etc. Obviously if they had past lives (in mental hospitals) these would explain it. But it seems the facts of mental hospitals do not back this up. With nobody (in studies of the patients) claiming to be a famous person. Having said that the bloke who shot John Lennon said he was John Lennon! So maybe it still stands?

        There's a video of it on YouTube, but I don't know if it is the original artist or somebody doing a video for it. Sections of it look old enough though to be from the 60's. The quality is not good either.
        Education for anyone aged 12 to 16 has made a mess of the world!

        Comment


        • Greetings Pop Pickers ! I'm just in from work hence the late post.

          Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending 10th September 1966.

          The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending September 10th 1966 NME MM DISC RR Total
          Last This The Sound Survey Stores 200 250 100 85 Points
          Week Week The Top 30 Singles Chart BBC TOP 30 Scored
          3 1 All Or Nothing - The Small Faces 1= 2 1 1 2 18765
          1 2 Yellow Submarine / Eleanor Rigby - The Beatles 1= 1 2 2 1 18700
          2 3 God Only Knows - The Beach Boys 3 3 3 3 3 17780
          7 4 Too Soon To Know - Roy Orbison 4 5 5 4 5 16610
          4 5 They're Coming To Take Me Away, Ha-Haaa ! - Napoleon XIV 5 6 4 6 4 16545
          16 6 Distant Drums - Jim Reeves 6 4 8 5 6 15875
          5 7 Mama - Dave Berry 7 8 6 8 8 15105
          8 8 Lovers Of The World Unite - David and Jonathan 8 7 7 12 7 14740
          18 9 Got To Get You Into My Life - Cliff Bennett and The Rebel Rousers 10 10 10 9 15 13010
          6 10 With A Girl Like You - The Troggs 9 9 14 10 9 12620
          13 11 Just Like A Woman - Manfred Mann 11 14 9 11 11 12600
          12 12 I Saw Her Again - The Mamas and Papas 12 15 13 7 13 11630
          9 13 Hi-Lili Hi-Lo - The Alan Price Set 14 17 11 13 14 11045
          19 14 Working In The Coal Mine - Lee Dorsey 13 12 16 14 10 11035
          11 15 Visions - Cliff Richard 15 10 15 19 12 11015
          10 16 Summer In The City - The Lovin' Spoonful 17 22 12 16 17 9240
          17 17 More Than Love - Ken Dodd 16 16 17 17 16 9175
          NEW 18 I'm A Boy - The Who 18 13 23 18 20 7835
          14 19 Black Is Black - Los Bravos 19 21 18 22 19 7170
          15 20 The More I See You - Chris Montez 20 23 21 20 18 6305
          30 21 When I Come Home - The Spencer Davis Group 21 25 20 15 23 6230
          NEW 22 Ashes To Ashes - The Mindbenders 22 24 19 21 22 6165
          27 23 How Sweet It Is - Junior Walker and The All Stars 23 20 26 26 27 4290
          23 24 Ain't Too Proud To Beg - The Temptations 24 29 25 24 25 3110
          22 25 Barefootin' - Robert Parker 26 22 29 24 3045
          NEW 26 Little Man - Sonny and Cher 27 18 27 3000
          NEW 27 I Can't Turn You Loose - Otis Redding 30 27 24 2550
          NEW 28 You Can't Hurry Love - The Supremes 29 19 30 2500
          21 29 I Want You - Bob Dylan 28 27 25 26 2025
          25 30 Loving You Is Sweeter Than Ever - The Four Tops 25 23 21 1650
          Big Time Operator - Zoot Money and The Big Roll Band 28 28 28 1605
          Land Of 1,000 Dances - Wilson Pickett 26 30 1250
          Step Out Of Line - Twice As Much 29 500
          Out Of Time - Chris Farlowe 28 30 385
          Winchester Cathedral - The New Vaudeville Band 30 200
          Strangers In The Night - Frank Sinatra 29 170

          Comment


          • And there appears Winchester Cathedral, the 'Best Contemporary (R&R) Recording' of 1967, according to the Recording Academy. Finishing ahead of 'Cherish', 'Monday, Monday', 'Eleanor Rigby', 'Last Train to Clarksville' and last but, definitely, not least 'Good Vibrations'. Not that I think it's a bad song, in fact I find it quite infectious. But I still cannot fathom how a silly Music Hall tune beat masterworks by both Brian Wilson and Paul McCartney. That said, this is far and away not the only instance in which I disagree with the Recording Academy.

            Comment


            • I'm 100% with you on that Bob. It's a pleasant enough pop song but way, way down the list of standout recordings that year. For sheer imaginative ingenuity and pop perfection I believe Good Vibrations to be the beacon that shone forth from 1966 by a country mile. To be overlooked was nothing short of criminal.

              Comment


              • Greetings Pop Pickers !

                Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending 17th September 1966. Enjoy.

                The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending September 17th 1966 NME MM DISC RR Total
                Last This The Sound Survey Stores 200 250 100 85 Points
                Week Week The Top 30 Singles Chart BBC TOP 30 Scored
                1 1 All Or Nothing - The Small Faces 1 1 1 1 1 19050
                2 2 Yellow Submarine / Eleanor Rigby - The Beatles 2 2 2 3 3 18230
                6 3 Distant Drums - Jim Reeves 3 3 4 2 2 17715
                4 4 Too Soon To Know - Roy Orbison 4 4 3 4 4 17395
                3 5 God Only Knows - The Beach Boys 5 5 5 6 5 16410
                9 6 Got To Get You Into My Life - Cliff Bennett and The Rebel Rousers 6= 8 6 7 6 15375
                14 7 Working In The Coal Mine - Lee Dorsey 6= 7 7 5 8 15355
                8 8 Lovers Of The World Unite - David and Jonathan 8 6 9 9 9 14570
                18 9 I'm A Boy - The Who 9 9 8 8 14 13895
                5 10 They're Coming To Take Me Away, Ha-Haaa ! - Napoleon XIV 10 12 11 10 7 12940
                28 11 You Can't Hurry Love - The Supremes 11= 11 10 13 13 12580
                26 12 Little Man - Sonny and Cher 11= 10 14 11 12 12065
                11 13 Just Like A Woman - Manfred Mann 13 13 12 12 10 12035
                7 14 Mama - Dave Berry 14 14 13 14 11 11300
                15 15 Visions - Cliff Richard 17 16 16 19 19 8970
                12 16 I Saw Her Again - The Mamas and Papas 15 18 17 16 17 8790
                21 17 When I Come Home - The Spencer Davis Group 16 24 15 15 15 8360
                17 18 More Than Love - Ken Dodd 19 17 20 18 18 7955
                22 19 Ashes To Ashes - The Mindbenders 18 21 18 17 16 7925
                NEW 20 Walk With Me - the Seekers 20 20 19 20 23 6980
                13 21 Hi-Lili Hi-Lo - The Alan Price Set 21 26 22 21 20 5185
                10 22 With A Girl Like You - The Troggs 22 19 26 25 21 5100
                NEW 23 Sunny - Bobby Hebb 29 15 28 24 4650
                23 24 How Sweet It Is - Junior Walker and The All Stars 23 25 25 22 22 4365
                16 25 Summer In The City - The Lovin' Spoonful 24 27 21 23 28 4355
                NEW 26 Land Of 1,000 Dances - Wilson Pickett 25 22 29 27 25 3210
                20 27 The More I See You - Chris Montez 26 23 26 24 3095
                27 28 I Can't Turn You Loose - Otis Redding 27= 29 24 28 30 2535
                NEW 29 Winchester Cathedral - The New Vaudeville Band 27= 23 26 2025
                RE 30 Big Time Operator - Zoot Money and The Big Roll Band 30 30 27 30 29 1470
                I Don't Care - Los Bravos 28 600
                Black Is Black - Los Bravos 29 27 540
                Run - Sandie Shaw 30 250


                Comment


                • Greetings Pop Pickers !

                  Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending 24th September 1966. Enjoy.

                  The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending September 24th 1966 NME MM DISC RR Total
                  Last This The Sound Survey Stores 200 250 100 85 Points
                  Week Week The Top 30 Singles Chart BBC TOP 30 Scored
                  3 1 Distant Drums - Jim Reeves 1 1 1 1 1 19050
                  1 2 All Or Nothing - The Small Faces 2 2 2 2 2 18415
                  4 3 Too Soon To Know - Roy Orbison 3 3 3 5 3 17580
                  9 4 I'm A Boy - The Who 4 4 4 3 4 17245
                  11 5 You Can't Hurry Love - The Supremes 6 5 6 6 7 15990
                  2 6 Yellow Submarine / Eleanor Rigby - The Beatles 7 7 5 7 5 15910
                  12 7 Little Man - Sonny and Cher 5 6 7 4 6 15825
                  5 8 God Only Knows - The Beach Boys 8 10 8 9 8 14105
                  7 9 Working In The Coal Mine - Lee Dorsey 10 8 9 10 10 13985
                  6 10 Got To Get You Into My Life - Cliff Bennett and The Rebel Rousers 9 9 10 8 9 13820
                  8 11 Lovers Of The World Unite - David and Jonathan 11 12 11 11 11 12500
                  NEW 12 Bend It - Dave Dee, Dozy, Beaky, Mick and Tich 12 11 13 12 13 11930
                  17 13 When I Come Home - The Spencer Davis Group 13 14 14 17 12 10665
                  19 14 Ashes To Ashes - The Mindbenders 14 16 15 14 14 10145
                  20 15 Walk With Me - The Seekers 15= 18 12 19 17 9740
                  23 16 Sunny - Bobby Hebb 17 13 16 20 21 9300
                  NEW 17 All I See Is You - Dusty Springfield 15= 15 19 13 19 9020
                  13 18 Just Like A Woman - Manfred Mann 20 19 18 18 20 7885
                  14 19 Mama - Dave Berry 18 20 21 15 15 7660
                  29 20 Winchester Cathedral - The New Vaudeville Band 19 17 22 16 18 7655
                  10 21 They're Coming To Take Me Away, Ha-Haaa ! - Napoleon XIV 21 24 17 21 16 7175
                  18 22 More Than Love - Ken Dodd 22 27 20 23 23 5030
                  26 23 Land Of 1'000 Dances - Wilson Pickett 23 25 23 24 22 4665
                  28 24 I Can't Turn You Loose - Otis Redding 24 21 26 29 29 3620
                  NEW 25 I Don't Care - Los Bravos 25= 26 27 28 26 2725
                  16 26 I Saw Her Again - The Mamas and Papas 29 30 24 27 28 2605
                  24 27 How Sweet It Is - Junior Walker and The All Stars 27 28 28 26 24 2445
                  15 28 Visions - Cliff Richard 28 25 25 27 2440
                  30 29 Big Time Operator - Zoot Money and The Big Roll Band 25= 29 22 25 1910
                  NEW 30 Guantanamera - The Sandpipers 30 22 1800
                  Another Tear Falls - The Walker Brothers 23 1600
                  Sunny - Georgie Fame 29 400
                  Summer In The City - The Lovin' Spoonful 30 250
                  Summertime - Billy Stewart 30 100
                  Hi-Lili Hi-Lo - The Alan Price Set 30 85

                  Comment


                  • A posthumous number 1 for Jim Reeves, some 2+ years after his death in a plane crash. At the time he was the third act to have a posthumous number 1, following Buddy Holly ('It Doesn't Matter Anymore') and Eddie Cochran ('Three Steps To Heaven').

                    Comment


                    • Guantanamera - The Sandpipers
                      I always used to sing "One ton of manure" to this song!

                      The Sonny and Cher song was used a few years ago for an Amazon advert - the one with the little horse!
                      Education for anyone aged 12 to 16 has made a mess of the world!

                      Comment


                      • Too Soon To Know was - extraordinary to realise - the only substantial hit Roy Orbison had between '64 and '89.

                        Although not specifically about the recent death of his wife Claudette, the lyrics ("too soon to know....if I can forget her...") were poignant....

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Graham76man View Post
                          Guantanamera - The Sandpipers
                          I always used to sing "One ton of manure" to this song!
                          Also known as "One Ton Tomato":

                          One ton tomato,
                          I'll eat a one ton tomato,
                          One ton tomat-oh
                          I'll eat a one ton tomat-oh...

                          Comment


                          • Greetings Pop Pickers ! Just in from work again hence why running late.

                            I will never hear Guantanamera quite the same ever again after the comments above

                            Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending 1st October 1966. Enjoy.

                            The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending October 1st 1966 NME MM DISC RR Total
                            Last This The Sound Survey Stores 200 250 100 85 Points
                            Week Week The Top 30 Singles Chart BBC TOP 30 Scored
                            1 1 Distant Drums - Jim Reeves 1 1 1 1 1 19050
                            4 2 I'm A Boy - The Who 2 2 2 2 2 18415
                            5 3 You Can't Hurry Love - The Supremes 3 3 3 3 3 17780
                            7 4 Little Man - Sonny and Cher 4 4 4 4 4 17145
                            12 5 Bend It - Dave Dee, Dozy, Beaky, Mick and Tich 5 5 5 5 6 16425
                            3 6 Too Soon To Know - Roy Orbison 6 6 6 7 5 15860
                            2 7 All Or Nothing - The Small Faces 7 7 7 6 8 15255
                            17 8 All I See Is You - Dusty Springfield 8 8 8 8 11 14350
                            20 9 Winchester Cathedral - The New Vaudeville Band 9 9 11 11 7 13440
                            15 10 Walk With Me - The Seekers 11 12 9 12 10 12985
                            6 11 Yellow Submarine / Eleanor Rigby - The Beatles 10 13 10 9 9 12920
                            16 12 Sunny - Bobby Hebb 12 11 12 14 14 11895
                            9 13 Working In The Coal Mine - Lee Dorsey 13 14 14 10 13 11280
                            10 14 Got To Get You Into My Life - Cliff Bennett and The Rebel Rousers 14 15 17 13 15 9860
                            8 15 God Only Knows - The Beach Boys 15 19 13 15 16 9775
                            NEW 16 Have You Seen Your Mother Baby, Standing In The Shadows - The Rolling Stones 16 10 18 20 17 9740
                            30 17 Guantanamera - The Sandpipers 18 17 16 17 18 9055
                            11 18 Lovers Of The World Unite - David and Jonathan 17 23 15 16 12 8715
                            13 19 When I Come Home - The Spencer Davis Group 19 16 19 21 19 8020
                            NEW 20 Sunny - Georgie Fame 22 20 20 22 22 6615
                            NEW 21 Another Tear Falls - The Walker Brothers 20 18 23 18 23 6580
                            14 22 Ashes To Ashes - The Mindbenders 21 22 22 19 20 6185
                            25 23 I Don't Care - Los Bravos 23 21 21 23 21 6150
                            19 24 Mama - Dave Berry 24 25 24 24 25 4160
                            23 25 Land Of 1,000 Dances - Wilson Pickett 25 26 28 27 24 2745
                            NEW 26 Lady Godiva - Peter and Gordon 27 23 29 30 30 2285
                            21 27 They're Coming To Take Me Away, Ha-Haaa ! - Napoleon XIV 26 26 26 27 2090
                            18 28 Just Like A Woman - Manfred Mann 28 25 29 28 1955
                            22 29 More Than Love - Ken Dodd 30 28 27 29 1770
                            27 30 How Sweet It Is - Junior Walker and The All Stars 29 25 26 1025
                            In The Arms Of Love - Andy Williams 27 800
                            I Can't Turn You Loose - Otis Redding 30 30 28 750
                            Dear Mrs. Applebee - David Garrick 28 600

                            Comment


                            • So close to a 'perfect' top 5. And it probably has happened before, but this is the first time I have noticed that a magazine top 30 (in this case RR) got all 30 records on the ultimate chart 'correct'. And lastly, that Stones title must have been one of the longest song titles of its time.

                              Comment


                              • Don't be fooled into a sense of false security Bob, RR will soon go off the rails again lol

                                Comment


                                • Greetings Pop Pickers !

                                  Ready for the next one ?

                                  Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending 8th October 1966 for your interest.

                                  The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending October 8th 1966 NME MM DISC RR Total
                                  Last This The Sound Survey Stores 200 250 100 85 Points
                                  Week Week The Top 30 Singles Chart BBC TOP 30 Scored
                                  1 1 Distant Drums - Jim Reeves 1 1 2 1 1 18800
                                  2 2 I'm A Boy - The Who 2 2 1 2 3 18580
                                  5 3 Bend It - Dave Dee, Dozy, Beaky, Mick and Tich 3 3 3 3 2 17865
                                  3 4 You Can't Hurry Love - The Supremes 4 4 5 4 4 16895
                                  16 5 Have You Seen Your Mother Baby, Standing In The Shadows - The Rolling Stones 5 7 4 5 7 16190
                                  4 6 Little Man - Sonny and Cher 6 6 6 6 5 15960
                                  9 7 Winchester Cathedral - The New Vaudeville Band 7 5 7 7 6 15725
                                  8 8 All I See Is You - Dusty Springfield 8 9 8 8 9 14320
                                  6 9 Too Soon To Know - Roy Orbison 9 8 11 9 8 13755
                                  10 10 Walk With Me - The Seekers 10= 10 9 12 11 13300
                                  17 11 Guantanamera - The Sandpipers 10= 12 10 10 10 12935
                                  12 12 Sunny - Bobby Hebb 12 11 12 11 12 12365
                                  21 13 Another Tear Falls - The Walker Brothers 13 13 14 13 14 11095
                                  20 14 Sunny - Georgie Fame 14 14 13 16 15 10760
                                  7 15 All Or Nothing - The Small Faces 15 15 15 15 13 10330
                                  11 16 Yellow Submarine / Eleanor Rigby - The Beatles 18 19 16 17 18 8655
                                  NEW 17 I Can't Control Myself - The Troggs 16= 16 18 19 17 8640
                                  23 18 I Don't Care - Los Bravos 16= 17 19 18 16 8375
                                  13 19 Working In The Coal Mine - Lee Dorsey 19 24 17 14 19 7620
                                  26 20 Lady Godiva - Peter and Gordon 20 18 22 20 24 6545
                                  19 21 When I Come Home - The Spencer Davis Group 21 21 23 22 20 5835
                                  14 22 Got To Get You Into My Life - Cliff Bennett and The Rebel Rousers 23 25 21 21 23 5380
                                  18 23 Lovers Of The World Unite - David and Jonathan 22 22 24 25 22 4915
                                  NEW 24 I've Got You Under My Skin - The Four Seasons 25 20 26 23 29 4420
                                  15 25 God Only Knows - The Beach Boys 24 20 24 21 4300
                                  22 26 Ashes To Ashes - The Mindbenders 27 25 28 26 2225
                                  NEW 27 Sunny - Cher 29 27 27 29 2000
                                  NEW 28 Born A Woman - Sandy Posey 30 22 1800
                                  NEW 29 Dear Mrs. Applebee - David Garrick 26 29 28 27 1490
                                  RE 30 I Can't Turn You Loose - Otis Redding 26 27 1400
                                  Land Of 1,000 Dances - Wilson Pickett 28 26 25 1010
                                  Somewhere My Love - The Mike Sammes Singers 28 30 28 955
                                  Mama - Dave Berry 29 30 585
                                  Somewhere My Love - Manuel and The Music Of The Mountains 30 250
                                  Summer Wind - Frank Sinatra 30 200

                                  Comment


                                  • It never ceases to amaze me how often the BBC gets tallies wrong for their chart and doesn't pick up on it. Having all the charts in one place in front of me makes it easy to see this, where they award chart positions yet the points total doesn't justify this in comparison to the record directly above or below. Poor or no double checking took place obviously.

                                    Comment


                                    • Your parallel setup of competing charts has proved to be at least as interesting as your correction of the Averaged chart. Are you contemplating doing this even before BBC started theirs? I’m thinking of Mar 56 when MM’s chart commenced in addition to NME and RM.

                                      Comment


                                      • Graham76man
                                        Graham76man commented
                                        Editing a comment
                                        Yes that would be good to do, as apart from errors and too many tied slots, the 60's BBC chart was already available. Next project Brian!

                                    • BBC mistakes were particularly prevalent in the 21-30 section of their chart, but bear in mind that this was only for internal use; POTP and TOTP presented only a Top 20. A 'new entry' was an entry into the 20, regardless of whether it had been in the 21-30 section before.

                                      There has been some discussion here about whether the first BBC Top 20 was on Sunday 30-Mar-58 or the week before. It is clear from the online Light Programme schedule that the programme format changed on 30-Mar-58. So I think there is a similar 'internal use' explanation, that they probably unofficially compiled a chart the week before so that they had the previous week's positions when the Top 20 started.

                                      Also, since Sunday 29-Sep-57 they had been presenting a Top 3 chart so I expect there were unofficial calculations of positions below that down to at least 10.

                                      Before 29-Sep-57 POTP featured only new releases, although the Radio Times is confusing because it talks about a Top 3. But this was where they invited listeners to vote for their favourite new release and the Top 3 voted for were announced the following week.

                                      Comment


                                      • Yeah guys here is my plan.

                                        Once I reach February 1969 when the BMRB took over I plan on going back to start from 1960 to 1963. My Ultimate Averaged Charts will differ even more than the BBC charts of that time for the following reasons.

                                        From 21st May 1960 the BBC chart did not include the RM chart because of a change in RM's compilation date meaning it did not arrive in time to be included in the BBC compilation, so only NME, MM, Disc were used until March 1962.
                                        In March 1962 RM stopped compiling their own chart and started using RR so from that date the BBC now also included RR in their compilation.

                                        This effectively means that between May 1960 and March 1962 I will be adding the missing RM charts mentioned above but also from March 1960 will also be adding the RR chart also not used until aforementioned March 1962 so The Ultimate Averaged Chart will be scoring a first here.

                                        On completion of this guys I then intend going back further to at least March 1956 and the first MM chart until 1959, and possibly even further back to September 1955 and the first RM Top 20. I say possibly and this is where you can give me your thoughts guys. Using just NME and RM between September 55 and March 56 is more difficult as it was just the two charts and from what I can gather both were sampling around the same number of shops so the number of tied positions would increase greatly, and how would these then be broken down. Possibly by taking the highest ranking song from the Sheet Music Chart ? Over to you ?

                                        Then when I have completed 55/56 to Feb 69, I thought I might continue averaging from Feb 69 to after the postal strike in March 1971. It was only really after this date that the BMRB chart was widely accepted and until then NME and MM were still considered as important as BMRB. Again your thoughts on this would be most welcome. Again over to you ?

                                        Comment


                                        • I’m not against going back to Sep 55, especially not if there are undisclosed RM dealers returns between then and Mar 56. I thought of Mar 56 because that coincided with the start of MM and and it’s only a few weeks prior to NME’s top 30.

                                          Comment


                                          • Averaging out charts that use the same method of compilation is fine, but since the BMRB chart is actually using genuine sales and the others are not and still using the old method, then you are giving weight to records that might not be selling well. Since I have now started compiling charts for the 1970 period I have been looking at both the BMRB chart and the NME charts at the same time. And you can clearly see the huge difference between BMRB sales chart and NME points chart. With in my opinion the BMRB chart being much more on the ball. Personally I wouldn't put much credence in a chart that had a sales and points methods of compilation. Too me it would be nearly as bad as trying to make streams into record sales, which is what the current Official Chart does (which I nicknamed the Offal Chart as a result).
                                            Education for anyone aged 12 to 16 has made a mess of the world!

                                            Comment

                                            Working...
                                            X