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The Ultimate Averaged Chart - The BBC Chart Re-Imagined

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  • Thanks for following them Brain. Lots more to come and I really enjoy compiling these charts and getting some surprises myself when I see them.

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    • Greetings Pop Pickers !

      Off to work I go. But.

      Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending March 25th 1967. Enjoy !

      The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending March 25th 1967 NME MM DISC RR Total
      Last This The Sound Survey Stores 200 250 100 85 Points
      Week Week The Top 30 Singles Chart BBC TOP 30 Scored
      1 1 Release Me - Engelbert Humperdinck 1 1 1 1 1 19050
      4 2 Edelweiss - Vince Hill 2 2 2 6 2 18015
      3 3 This Is My Song - Petula Clark 4 3 5 4 4 17095
      10 4 This Is My Song - Harry Secombe 5 4 3 3 9 17070
      2 5 Penny Lane / Strawberry Fields Forever - The Beatles 3 5 4 2 5 17060
      7 6 Georgy Girl - The Seekers 6 8 6 9 3 15430
      5 7 On A Carousel - The Hollies 7 6 8 5 7 15390
      18 8 Simon Smith And His Amazing Dancing Bear - The Alan Price Set 8 7 7 7 6 15325
      20 9 I Was Kaiser Bill's Batman - Whistling Jack Smith 9 10 9 8 8 13955
      6 10 There's A Kind Of Hush - Herman's Hermits 10 9 11 12 10 13085
      25 11 Puppet On A String - Sandie Shaw 12 11 10 10 16 12625
      9 12 Detroit City - Tom Jones 11 12 12 11 11 12250
      14 13 Give It To Me - The Troggs 14 16 14 14 15 10310
      8 14 Here Comes My Baby - The Tremeloes 13 15 16 13 13 10280
      11 15 Snoopy vs The Red Baron - The Royal Guardsmen 15 14 17 15 14 9945
      16 16 Memories Are Made Of This - Val Doonican 16 17 15 20 12 9515
      15 17 I'll Try Anything - Dusty Springfield 17 18 13 18 18 9505
      NEW 18 Somethin' Stupid - Frank and Nancy Sinatra 18 13 20 17 25 8260
      19 19 Love Is Here And Now You're Gone - The Supremes 19 22 18 16 19 7570
      12 20 I'm A Believer - The Monkees 20 22 19 19 17 7190
      13 21 Peek-A-Boo - The New Vaudeville Band 21 19 23 25 20 5935
      NEW 22 It's All Over - Cliff Richard 23 20 24 23 24 5345
      23 23 Al Capone - Prince Buster 22 25 22 21 21 5300
      24 24 Touch Me, Touch Me - Dave Dee, Dozy, Beaky, Mick and Tich 24 24 21 26 22 5165
      17 25 Mellow Yellow - Donovan 25 27 26 24 27 3090
      29 26 I Can't Make It - The Small Faces 27 21 27 3000
      NEW 27 Knock On Wood - Eddie Floyd 29= 26 28 30 29 2020
      22 28 It Takes Two - Marvin Gaye and Kim Weston 26 28 29 27 26 1925
      27 29 Keep It Out Of Sight - Paul and Barry Ryan 25 29 1700
      26 30 Then You Can Tell Me Goodbye - The Casinos 28 29 22 30 1385
      I Won't Come In While He's There - Jim Reeves 29= 28 23 980
      Single Girl - Sandy Posey 28 255
      Trafalgar Square - The Good Time Losers 30 250
      Gonna Get Along Without You Now - Trini Lopez 30 200

      Comment


      • What a strange top 4. It's almost like The Beatles and the beat group explosion of 1963 - 1966 never happened. Thankfully The Beatles are at number 5 to remind us that it did happen.

        Comment


        • ... but at 3 in the BBC chart. And that is because the BBC is back into tie-breaker mode - breaking ties at 3, 6 and 18.

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          • Well sometimes I'm as thick as two peas in a pod, but afterall this time I finally worked out how Brian gets the points all thanks to the bottom of the 25 March chart!
            He uses the number of chart shops then multiplies the figure for each chart position.
            So I got that a 30 on NME is 200 points, 250 on Melody Maker and so on. What I couldn't work out why Sandy Posey had so many points with Record Retailer having just 85 stores! But then it dawned on me, she was three places higher, so he tripled RR to give those points!
            Personally I would have given her 85 plus 3! But that's just me.
            So you probably could get a different chart using a system of store numbers plus 30 points!
            Education for anyone aged 12 to 16 has made a mess of the world!

            Comment


            • Just to whet ur appetite guys

              There is a surprise #1 coming up in this year's Ultimate Average Chart later on.

              Any guesses ?

              Comment


              • Not an Engelbert record by any chance? The one that didn't get to number 1 on the RR chart?

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                • The Monkees' "Alternate Title"?

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                  • Tom Jones "I'll Never Fall in Love Again".

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                    • I'll also go for 'Alternate Title'.

                      I can still remember the shock of opening up Disc and seeing Harry Secombe at number one, and I don't think I could take that again!

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                      • LMAO at the thought of seeing Splodge, Bob, or Robbie' faces if their guesses were correct. I'm tempted to fix those charts lol. But no it is The Monkees. Spot on Metal first guess.

                        Bob as a follower could u oblige and go to my first page and first post here and click the 'Like tab. Cheers.

                        Comment


                        • Please Please Me and 19th Nervous Breakdown are invariably mentioned as the ones that RR failed to place at number one when all the other charts did. But there were three others:
                          - ‘Stranger On The Shore’
                          - ‘A Picture Of You’
                          - ‘Do You Want To Know A Secret’*


                          Then there was ‘Eloise’ which only RR and the BBC did not place at number one, although of course by this time there were only three primary source charts remaining.

                          (*Joint number 1 in the BBC chart, the other two were number one outright.)

                          Comment


                          • deleting till further check...
                            Last edited by RokinRobinOfLocksley; Fri October 9, 2020, 01:27.

                            Comment


                            • Greetings Pop Pickers !

                              Off to work I go. Again. But.

                              Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending April 1st 1967. Enjoy !

                              The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending April 1st 1967 NME MM DISC RR Total
                              Last This The Sound Survey Stores 200 250 100 85 Points
                              Week Week The Top 30 Singles Chart BBC TOP 30 Scored
                              1 1 Release Me - Engelbert Humperdinck 1 1 1 1 1 19050
                              4 2 This Is My Song - Harry Secombe 2 2 2 2 2 18415
                              2 3 Edelweiss - Vince Hill 3 4 5 3 3 17080
                              8 4 Simon Smith And His Amazing Dancing Bear - The Alan Price Set 4 6 3 4 4 16995
                              9 5 I Was Kaiser Bill's Batman - Whistling Jack Smith 5 5 6 6 5 16160
                              11 6 Puppet On A String - Sandie Shaw 6 3 7 7 6 16125
                              18 7 Somethin' Stupid - Frank and Nancy Sinatra 7 7 4 8 9 15720
                              3 8 This Is My Song - Petula Clark 8 8 8 5 8 14905
                              5 9 Penny Lane / Strawberry Fields Forever - The Beatles 10 10 9 9 10 13685
                              6 10 Georgy Girl - The Seekers 9 9 11 10 7 13540
                              16 11 Memories Are Made Of This - Val Doonican 11 12 10 13 11 12550
                              7 12 On A Carousel - The Hollies 12 11 13 11 12 12115
                              10 13 There's A Kind Of Hush - Herman's Hermits 13 13 14 12 13 11280
                              22 14 It's All Over - Cliff Richard 14 14 17 14 14 10045
                              12 15 Detroit City - Tom Jones 15 15 16 15 16 9825
                              17 16 I'll Try Anything - Dusty Springfield 16 19 12 18 19 9470
                              19 17 Love Is Here And Now You're Gone - The Supremes 17 21 15 16 17 8690
                              13 18 Give It To Me - The Troggs 18 16 20 20 18 7955
                              20 19 I'm A Believer - The Monkees 19 17 22 17 24 7045
                              15 20 Snoopy vs The Red Baron - The Royal Guardsmen 21 21 19 21 21 6850
                              24 21 Touch Me, Touch Me - Dave Dee, Dozy, Beaky, Mick and Tich 20 24 18 24 15 6710
                              23 22 Al Capone - Prince Buster 22 17 23 23 20 6535
                              14 23 Here Comes My Baby - The Tremeloes 23 28 21 19 22 5065
                              27 24 Knock On Wood - Eddie Floyd 24 23 25 22 23 4680
                              NEW 25 Arnold Layne - Pink Floyd 25 26 26 25 2850
                              26 26 I Can't Make It - The Small Faces 26 30 24 29 26 2575
                              NEW 27 Because I Love You - Georgie Fame 27 20 28 2455
                              21 28 Peek-A-Boo - The New Vaudeville Band 28 27 25 1510
                              NEW 29 Purple Haze - The Jimi Hendrix Experience 29= 25 28 1500
                              NEW 30 Bernadette - The Four Tops 29= 27 26 1300
                              You Got What It Takes - The Dave Clark Five 28 30 29 1020
                              Mellow Yellow - Donovan 29 500
                              Ha ! Ha ! Said The Clown - Manfred Mann 29 400
                              Then You Can Tell Me Goodbye - The Casinos 27 400
                              I Won't Come In While He's There 27 340
                              It Takes Two - Marvin Gaye and Kim Weston 30 250
                              Happy Together - The Turtles 30 200
                              Keep It Out Of Sight - Paul and Barry Ryan 30 85

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Graham76man View Post
                                So you probably could get a different chart using a system of store numbers plus 30 points!
                                Graham, the system you are proposing of using store numbers plus up to 30 points would significantly reduce the weighting effect and produce a chart close to the BBC one. A far easier way of producing a low-weighted chart would be to calculate in the BBC way and then simply tiebreak according to the highest store charts.

                                Comment


                                • Graham76man
                                  Graham76man commented
                                  Editing a comment
                                  Really I thought that was the point to make the chart like the BBC one. Plus it would reduce the effect of Retailer's messy chart. It would of course also push the new hits up higher, since the old ones in RR are getting a boost with the present system. And the suggestion you made does give the charts equal rights again, which as Brian has pointed isn't right.

                              • There's very little difference between the Ultimate Averaged Chart and the POTP chart this week with just a handful of records swapping places and a joint number 29 on the POTP chart.

                                Debut week for Pink Floyd with (to me) their best single, 'Arnold Layne'. As usual Record Retailer is behind the times and the single was outside the top 30 (at number 41).

                                Comment


                                • Graham76man
                                  Graham76man commented
                                  Editing a comment
                                  It was the BBC chart that stopped the Pink Floyd being on TOTP and having a big hit with it. Some of the component charts showed it falling down, the week they were due to go on, so they got pulled from the line up. The single reached only 21.

                              • Harry was 5,000 copies ahead of the Hump at this point
                                Education for anyone aged 12 to 16 has made a mess of the world!

                                Comment


                                • Graham, to "reduce the effect of Retailer's messy chart" the BBC could have applied this odd-one-out rule: 'If only one chart has a position more than 4 places adrift from any other it will be ignored'. In effect the BBC were already applying this as their odd-one-out policy for number one (because the problem only arose when RR placed something lower than number 4 that was number 1 elsewhere) and I think it would have been fairer to apply it to the whole chart.
                                  Last edited by Splodj; Fri October 9, 2020, 13:11.

                                  Comment


                                  • Graham76man
                                    Graham76man commented
                                    Editing a comment
                                    I don't think the BBC would have considered such rules. It seems they saw the charts as equal, it was only tied number ones that caused a problem for TOTP. They had to play the number one and they couldn't have loads of best sellers!
                                    My suggestion was that you can use a different system to straighten out charts, not the merits of such charts or the faults of them.

                                • Because the chart positions from the music papers are averaged in the same way as the BBC did the foundation for The Ultimate Averaged Chart is similar up to that point so many positions will remain largely the same and I see that as positive.
                                  However as we have already seen on many occasions the BBC chart is strewn with errors, ties, and anomalies, so not a robust averaged chart to define the times.
                                  By adding the extra layer of store returns to proportionately weigh the music paper charts a stage further enhances the result to give a clearer more defined averaged chart correcting anomalies and ties.
                                  So yeah it will be similar, but much more accurate and robust.

                                  Comment


                                  • I noticed a couple of typos. In the 11th of March chart, you have two no. 15's for the last week positions. Dusty Springfield at 19 'this week' was at 25 last week.
                                    In the 18th of March chart, The Casinos were a re-entry at no.26 and not a new entry.

                                    It's interesting how variable the points required to be in the top 30 are. One week you had three songs in the breakers on 1000 points and the following week 1000 points were enough to be at the no.29 position. I guess this isn't really that surprising as we know that the number of sales required to appear in the current charts are variable from week to week.
                                    A year-end chart based on the points received during the year could be worthwhile - though in all likelihood it will be similar to an inverse points one - though 'weaker' no.1s (i.e. those that weren't no.1 in all charts at the same time) may be downplayed slightly.... Of course this does then raise the question of what you count as the year as the chart is always a reflection of the previous week and not the dated week... Or do you adopt a Billboard-type scenario where you begin/end at the start of December -ostensibly for publication reasons - though also to not underplay the importance of the Christmas weeks (traditionally a time of big sales).

                                    Comment


                                    • Graham76man
                                      Graham76man commented
                                      Editing a comment
                                      I have found points based best selling "year" charts to be useless. Some records sell huge amounts but don't even get top ten on the weekly chart and number ones on sales based charts can be found outside the top 100 at the end of the year.

                                  • Brain thanks for noticing that. I have amended those to keep the chart 100% accurate. For Dusty I must have tapped a 1 instead of 2.

                                    Comment


                                    • I'm currently working on 1968 so it won't be long now till I delve back to give you 60 -63.
                                      Given I'm way ahead do you guys still want just one chart a day or some days do you want a couple of charts ?

                                      Comment


                                      • Greetings Pop Pickers !

                                        The last two 'drunken' nights which were omitted are very tame by today's standard.

                                        Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending April 8th 1967. Enjoy !

                                        The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending April 8th 1967 NME MM DISC RR Total
                                        Last This The Sound Survey Stores 200 250 100 85 Points
                                        Week Week The Top 30 Singles Chart BBC TOP 30 Scored
                                        1 1 Release Me - Engelbert Humperdinck 1 1 2 3 1 18600
                                        7 2 Somethin' Stupid - Frank and Nancy Sinatra 2 3 1 2 2 18465
                                        2 3 This Is My Song - Harry Secombe 3 2 5 1 3 17680
                                        6 4 Puppet On A String - Sandie Shaw 4 4 3 4 4 17395
                                        4 5 Simon Smith And His Amazing Dancing Bear - The Alan Price Set 5 5 4 6 5 16660
                                        5 6 I Was Kaiser Bill's Batman - Whistling Jack Smith 6 7 6 5 6 15775
                                        3 7 Edelweiss - Vince Hill 8 6 7 7 7 15440
                                        14 8 It's All Over - Cliff Richard 7 8 8 8 11 14350
                                        8 9 This Is My Song - Petula Clark 9 10 10 9 9 13520
                                        9 10 Penny Lane / Strawberry Fields Forever - The Beatles 10 12 11 11 8 12755
                                        NEW 11 A Little Bit Me, A Little Bit You - The Monkees 11 8 14 10 14 12395
                                        11 12 Memories Are Made Of This - Val Doonican 12 14 9 13 12 12315
                                        10 13 Georgy Girl - The Seekers 13 13 12 14 10 11835
                                        NEW 14 Ha ! Ha ! Said The Clown - Manfred Mann 14 11 13 12 17 11590
                                        13 15 There's A Kind Of Hush - Herman's Hermits 15 15 18 19 15 9010
                                        12 16 On A Carousel - The Hollies 16 17 17 18 16 8875
                                        30 17 Bernadette - The Four Tops 18 16 19 16 25 8010
                                        29 18 Purple Haze - The Jimi Hendrix Experience 19= 23 15 17 22 7765
                                        21 19 Touch Me, Touch Me - Dave Dee, Dozy, Beaky, Mick and Tich 17 18 21 21 13 7630
                                        27 20 Because I Love You - Georgie Fame 19= 19 20 15 23 7430
                                        17 21 Love Is Here And Now You're Gone - The Supremes 21 27 16 20 20 6585
                                        22 22 Al Capone - Prince Buster 22 24 25 22 18 4905
                                        24 23 Knock On Wood - Eddie Floyd 24 26 26 24 21 3800
                                        15 24 Detroit City - Tom Jones 23 21 30 26 19 3770
                                        NEW 25 Happy Together - The Turtles 25 22 27 25 27 3740
                                        18 26 Give It To Me - The Troggs 26 27 24 30 24 3245
                                        NEW 27 Seven Drunken Nights - The Dubliners 27 25 28 23 2750
                                        25 28 Arnold Layne - Pink Floyd 29 22 27 2650
                                        19 29 I'm A Believer - The Monkees 28 20 28 2455
                                        NEW 30 I'm Gonna Get Me A Gun - Cat Stevens 23 2000
                                        I'll Try Anything - Dusty Springfield 30 29 29 28 26 1625
                                        You Got What It Takes - The Dave Clark Five 30 29 370
                                        Jimmy Mack - Martha and The Vandellas 29 200
                                        I Can't Make It - The Small Faces 30 85

                                        Comment


                                        • The last two 'drunken' nights which were omitted are very tame by today's standard.
                                          What do you mean by that? Removed from the BBC's chart?
                                          I always thought they just didn't play the records when it came to the chart show. Hence the title "Pick of the Pops" this insured that "banned" subjects didn't get played and avoided the USA top 40 style of show, which was really looked down on. Fluff could thus "pick" what could be played!
                                          Education for anyone aged 12 to 16 has made a mess of the world!

                                          Comment


                                          • On the record, the intro says, 'this is the story of the seven drunken nights but we're only allowed to sing five of them' so we never get to hear what the remaining two were.

                                            But if you listen to the full live version on you tube you can hear all seven of them

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