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The Ultimate Averaged Chart - The BBC Chart Re-Imagined

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  • braindeadpj
    replied
    So if Disc had been more on the ball and placed Elvis 5 or higher (rather than 9), he'd have been no.1 overall the week of the 24th. The average of the other charts suggest it should have been in at 2.... Wonder why they were so far off.

    Leave a comment:


  • MrTibbs
    replied
    I think you're right here because both of last weeks #1's on the other three charts tumble from the top right out of the top three so it is highly probable that RM called it correct. For my money I Got Stung was by far the stronger side, a cracking good fast paced rocker.

    Leave a comment:


  • Splodj
    replied
    The unanimity at the top adds credence to the view that last week RM got it right. MM and Disc may have been suffering from the difficulty that points charts tend to be too slow in identifying a 'bullet' top seller, as demonstrated later by BMRB and Gallup, and NME was having another of its highly maverick moments with their no. 1 which had fallen in position elsewhere.

    In trying to determine from the entrails what really was happening these transitional weeks are the most difficult to call.

    Leave a comment:


  • MrTibbs
    replied
    Greetings Pop Pickers

    ​​​​Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending January 31st 1959

    Here are all '' the uppers, the downers, the just hanging 'arounders '

    The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending January 31st 1959 NME MM DISC RM Total
    Last This The Sound Survey 75 25 40 60 Points
    Week Week The Top 30 Singles Chart BBC TOP 30 Scored
    5 1 I Got Stung / One Night - Elvis Presley 1 1 1 1 1 6000
    4 2 Baby Face - Little Richard 2 3 2 2 2 5725
    2 3 To Know Him Is To Love Him - The Teddy Bears 3 2 3 3 3 5675
    1 4 The Day The Rains Came - Jane Morgan 4 4 5 5 4 5335
    6 5 Kiss Me Honey Honey Kiss Me - Shirley Bassey 5= 4 7 6 5 5185
    3 6 It's Only Make Believe - Conway Twitty 5= 7 4 4 7 4995
    18 7 Problems - The Everly Brothers 7= 8 9 7 6 4735
    12 8 As I Love You - Shirley Bassey 7= 6 6 8 10 4680
    13 9 Smoke Gets In Your Eyes - The Platters 9 9 8 12 8 4365
    10 10 Tom Dooley - Lonnie Donegan 11 10 10 10 12 4080
    8 11 Tom Dooley - The Kingston Trio 10 13 11 9 9 4050
    9 12 Tea For Two Cha-Cha - The Tommy Dorsey Orchestra 12= 11 17 14 11 3730
    11 13 Love Makes The World Go Round (A) - Perry Como * 14= 19 13 11 15 3560
    7 14 Hoots Mon - Lord Rockingham's XI 12= 14 12 13 14 3490
    14 15 Chantilly Lace - The Big Bopper 14= 12 15 15 16 3365
    16 16 Come On Let's Go - Tommy Steele 16 16 14 17 18 2890
    19 17 High School Confidential - Jerry Lee Lewis 17 18 20 18 13 2850
    17 18 You Always Hurt The One You Love - Connie Francis 18 17 16 17 2490
    NEW 19 (All Of A Sudden) My Heart Sings - Paul Anka 20 20 19 1545
    RE 20 I'll Remember Tonight - Pat Boone 20 20 1100
    23 21 The World Outside - Ronnie Hilton 20 825
    21 22 You're The Top Cha - Al Saxon 22 675
    29 23 I'll Be With You In Apple Blossom Time - Rosemary June 26 19 675
    22 24 Someday (You'll Want Me To Want You) - Ricky Nelson 23 600
    NEW 25 There Must Be A Way - Joni James 19 24 525
    27 26 A Pub With No Beer - Slim Dusty 29 16 525
    15 27 High Class Baby - Cliff Richard 19 480
    NEW 28 Livin' Lovin' Doll - Cliff Richard 25 450
    20 29 Cannonball - Duane Eddy 18 325
    NEW 30 Last Night On The Back Porch - Alma Cogan 27 300
    30 30 The World Outside - The Four Aces 27 300
    Mandolins In The Moonlight - Perry Como (B) 15
    That's My Doll - Frankie Vaughan 30 75
    24 Woman From Liberia - Jimmie Rodgers
    25 The World Outside - Russ Conway
    26 My Ulelele - Max Bygraves
    28 It's All In The Game - Tommy Edwards
    * This week the split side disadvantaged the averaged chart position so an average was taken from the other 3 charts and awarded to NME to give a more representative chart position.

    Leave a comment:


  • Splodj
    replied
    A contested 'straight in at number one' that I missed off my list. My hunch is that RM got this one right.

    Leave a comment:


  • Robbie
    replied
    I'm not keen on the number 1. It's an old fashioned sounding song even for the era in which it was released.

    Leave a comment:


  • MrTibbs
    replied
    Greetings Pop Pickers

    ​​​​Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending January 24th 1959

    Here are all '' the uppers, the downers, the just hanging 'arounders '

    The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending January 24th 1959 NME MM DISC RM Total
    Last This The Sound Survey 75 25 40 60 Points
    Week Week The Top 30 Singles Chart BBC TOP 30 Scored
    2 1 The Day The Rains Came - Jane Morgan 2= 1 3 3 5 5630
    4 2 To Know Him Is To Love Him - The Teddy Bears 2= 4 4 2 2 5600
    1 3 It's Only Make Believe - Conway Twitty 1 5 1 1 3 5580
    7 4 Baby Face - Little Richard 4= 2 5 4 4 5525
    NEW 5 I Got Stung / One Night - Elvis Presley 4= 3 2 9 1 5505
    11 6 Kiss Me Honey Honey Kiss Me - Shirley Bassey 6= 6 7 8 7 4835
    3 7 Hoots Mon - Lord Rockingham's XI 6= 8 6 6 8 4730
    9 8 Tom Dooley - The Kingston Trio 8 10 11 7 6 4535
    8 9 Tea For Two Cha-Cha - The Tommy Dorsey Orchestra 9 7 9 11 9 4470
    5 10 Tom Dooley - Lonnie Donegan 10= 11 12 10 11 4015
    6 11 Love Makes The World Go 'Round - Perry Como (A) 10= 12 15 5 12 4005
    15 12 As I Love You - Shirley Bassey 10= 9 8 14 13 3985
    17 13 Smoke Gets In Your Eyes - The Platters 13 14 13 15 10 3625
    14 14 Chantilly Lace - The Big Bopper 15 16 14 16 14 3170
    10 15 High Class Baby - Cliff Richard 14 18 10 12 16 3160
    12 16 Come On Let's Go - Tommy Steele 16 13 13 15 3030
    13 17 You Always Hurt The One You Love - Connie Francis 17 15 16 19 18 2835
    NEW 18 Problems - The Everly Brothers 18 18 17 19 2045
    NEW 19 High School Confidential - Jerry Lee Lewis 19 22 19 17 1815
    18 20 Cannonball - Duane Eddy 22 20 20 1775
    25 21 You're The Top Cha - Al Saxon 20 17 20 1325
    19 22 Someday (You'll Want Me To Want You) - Ricky Nelson 26 17 935
    29 23 The World Outside - Ronnie Hilton 21 750
    21 24 Woman From Liberia - Jimmie Rodgers 30 18 595
    NEW 25 The World Outside - Russ Conway 24 525
    16 26 My Ukelele - Max Bygraves 25 450
    NEW 27 A Pub With No Beer - Slim Dusty 18 325
    20 28 It's All In The Game - Tommy Edwards 27 300
    NEW 29 I'll Be With You In Apple Blossom Time - Rosemary June 28 225
    NEW 30 The World Outside - The Four Aces 29 150
    Mandolins In The Moonlight - Perry Como (B) 18
    Last Night On The Back Porch - Alma Cogan 30 75
    22 Queen Of The Hop - Bobby Darin
    23 More Than Ever - Malcolm Vaughan
    24 Real Love - Ruby Murray
    26 Am I Wasting My Time On You - Frankie Vaughan
    27 A Certain Smile - Johnny Mathis
    28 I'll Remember Tonight - Pat Boone
    30 Heartbeat - Buddy Holly

    Leave a comment:


  • Splodj
    replied
    I thought the flip was at least as good - 'Well Alright'. Difficult to say any of his were overrated when they performed so badly - even worse in the USA.

    Cousin Brucie had Sonny Curtis on his show recently and asked him if he remembered what he was doing when he heard of Holly's death. He replied he was staying with Jerry Allison and felt he had to go into his bedroom and wake up 'JA' and Peggy Sue to tell them the news.

    (Incidentally he said he had never really fought the law, it was just imagined!)

    Leave a comment:


  • kingofskiffle
    replied
    Originally posted by brian05 View Post
    RE 30 Heartbeat - Buddy Holly

    This should have been a much greater hit. Sadly Buddy was mainly ignored in the UK until after his death.
    Yes a wonderful song. In fact all of his that chart in my opinion where wonderful. Any of his that people would suggest are overrated or not that good? (Genuine question as interested in the opinions).

    Leave a comment:


  • MrTibbs
    replied
    Originally posted by brian05 View Post
    RE 30 Heartbeat - Buddy Holly

    This should have been a much greater hit. Sadly Buddy was mainly ignored in the UK until after his death.
    Brian I totally agree it was an injustice when Nick Berry could score a major hit with this in a version that was practically a carbon copy and Buddy's was relegated to the low twenties. Similarly True Love Ways should have been massive in 1960 but was all but ignored.
    My father was a massive fan and had all these early hits. In the late fifties he had nearly all Lonnie Donegan's stuff whom he also admired and Buddy's.

    In the year above Buddy is about to go massive with It Doesn't Matter Anymore. The Flip Raining In My Heart was also a class tune and should have been held back as it had the potential to be a big follow up hit in its own right.

    Leave a comment:


  • brian05
    replied
    RE 30 Heartbeat - Buddy Holly

    This should have been a much greater hit. Sadly Buddy was mainly ignored in the UK until after his death.

    Leave a comment:


  • MrTibbs
    replied
    Suddenly Jane Morgan takes off into the top three. I just didn't like Little Richard's Baby Face it just didn't seem to suit his rock'n'roll usual style.
    After the festive break though the chart is now settling down.

    Leave a comment:


  • MrTibbs
    replied
    Greetings Pop Pickers

    ​​​​Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending January 17th 1959

    Here are all '' the uppers, the downers, the just hanging 'arounders '

    The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending January 17th 1959 NME MM DISC RM Total
    Last This The Sound Survey 75 25 40 60 Points
    Week Week The Top 30 Singles Chart BBC TOP 30 Scored
    1 1 It's Only Make Believe - Conway Twitty 1 1 1 1 1 6000
    7 2 The Day The Rains Came - Jane Morgan 2 2 2 2 5 5620
    2 3 Hoots Mon - Lord Rockingham's XI 3 3 3 4 2 5620
    9 4 To Know Him Is To Love Him - The Teddy Bears 4 5 4 3 4 5365
    3 5 Tom Dooley - Lonnie Donegan 5 4 5 7 3 5315
    6 6 Love Makes The World Go 'Round - Perry Como (A) 6 8 6 5 7 4830
    12 7 Baby Face - Little Richard 7= 7 10 8 6 4745
    4 8 Tea For Two Cha-Cha - The Tommy Dorsey Orchestra 7= 6 8 10 9 4610
    5 9 Tom Dooley - The Kingston Trio 9 12 9 6 8 4355
    8 10 High Class Baby - Cliff Richard 10 10 7 9 10 4315
    15 11 Kiss Me Honey Honey Kiss Me - Shirley Bassey 11 9 11 12 11 4110
    10 12 Come On Let's Go - Tommy Steele 12 10 19 11 13 3755
    17 13 You Always Hurt The One You Love - Connie Francis 13 13 15 19 12 3370
    25 14 Chantilly Lace - The Big Bopper 14= 18 14 15 18 2820
    23 15 As I Love You - Shirley Bassey 16 16 13 17 20 2795
    18 16 My Ukelele - Max Bygraves 17 20 17 14 16 2755
    NEW 17 Smoke Gets In Your Eyes - The Platters 14= 17 12 15 2485
    16 18 Cannonball - Duane Eddy 18 22 16 14 2295
    13 19 Someday (You'll Want Me To Want You) - Ricky Nelson 19= 21 13 19 2190
    11 20 It's All In The Game - Tommy Edwards 19= 15 17 2040
    24 21 Woman From Liberia - Jimmie Rodgers 18 20 1415
    29 22 Queen Of The Hop - Bobby Darin 24 18 1045
    14 23 More Than Ever - Malcolm Vaughan 23 16 975
    22 24 Real Love - Ruby Murray 26 18 700
    NEW 25 You're The Top Cha - Al Saxon 24 525
    28 26 Am I Wasting My Time On You - Frankie Vaughan 27 300
    20 27 A Certain Smile - Johnny Mathis 20 275
    NEW 28 I'll Remember Tonight - Pat Boone 28 225
    30 29 The World Outside - Ronnie Hilton 29 150
    RE 30 Heartbeat - Buddy Holly 30 75
    Mandolins In The Moonlight - Perry Como (B) 13
    19 King Creole - Elvis Presley
    21 More Party Pops - Russ Conway
    26 Mary's Boy Child - Harry Belafonte
    27 Come Prima / Volare - Marino Marini
    * Again either the BBC compilation is wrong or a typing error is as the manuscript lists both TD and LR at 7= but the points don't correspond with this.

    Leave a comment:


  • MrTibbs
    replied
    Originally posted by braindeadpj View Post
    I just noticed that the NME stores has increased to 75 for 1959. Anymore increases planned this year?
    No David that was the last store adjustment of the fifties for NME to maintain the gradual store increase into 1960. MM and Disc though will increase a bit later in the year and RM will remain the same.

    Leave a comment:


  • braindeadpj
    replied
    I just noticed that the NME stores has increased to 75 for 1959. Anymore increases planned this year?

    Leave a comment:


  • MrTibbs
    replied
    Kjell it is knowing that guys like you and every other loyal follower of this thread enjoy it and follow every chart that has made all the work blood sweat and tears in compiling it worthwhile. I genuinely thank you all

    Leave a comment:


  • kjell
    replied
    I’ve noticed that both my favourite reads, this thread and kingofskiffle’s «70 years of UK singles charts» share a delicate and claryfying colouring.

    Leave a comment:


  • Robbie
    replied
    The presence of 'Mary's Boy Child' at number 17 on the Disc chart ws why I thought Disc may have included dealer returns from more than one week in their chart dated 10 January 1959. However looking at how other recordshave done on the Disc chart compared to other Charts for that week there's not much difference for most of the records though records like 'Baby Face' are out of sync with the other charts.

    Leave a comment:


  • Splodj
    replied
    Originally posted by braindeadpj View Post
    there's no way that Frank Sinatra can be at 20 with the 3 charts as is.
    You are right, but they did put it there because POTP played it as 20. Looks to me more like a fix than an error!

    Incidentally, Platters 'Smoke Gets In Your Eyes' was played as a new release.
    Last edited by Splodj; Thu May 12, 2022, 06:47.

    Leave a comment:


  • kingofskiffle
    replied
    Fairly static chart again for the top few spots. And most of the Christmas ish ones vanish (Lonnie’s Skiffle Party for example)

    Leave a comment:


  • MrTibbs
    replied
    Greetings Pop Pickers

    ​​​​Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending January 10th 1959

    Here are all '' the uppers, the downers, the just hanging 'arounders '

    The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending January 10th 1959 NME MM DISC RM Total
    Last This The Sound Survey 75 25 40 60 Points
    Week Week The Top 30 Singles Chart BBC TOP 30 Scored
    1 1 It's Only Make Believe - Conway Twitty 1 1 1 1 1 6000
    2 2 Hoots Mon - Lord Rockingham's XI 2 2 2 2 2 5800
    3 3 Tom Dooley - Lonnie Donegan 3 3 3 3 3 5600
    4 4 Tea For Two Cha-Cha - The Tommy Dorsey Orchestra 4 4 5 7 5 5195
    5 5 Tom Dooley - The Kingston Trio 5 7 8 4 4 5075
    6 6 Love Makes The World Go 'Round / Mandolins In The Moonlight - Perry Como 6 6 7 5 6 5015
    7 7 The Day The Rains Came - Jane Morgan 7 5 4 8 8 4925
    9 8 High Class Baby - Cliff Richard 8 8 6 6 7 4790
    20 9 To Know Him Is To Love Him - The Teddy Bears 10= 10 11 12 11 4035
    11 10 Come On Let's Go - Tommy Steele 10= 12 12 11 9 4020
    8 11 It's All In The Game - Tommy Edwards 9 11 9 9 13 4010
    21 12 Baby Face - Little Richard 12 9 10 20 10 3875
    12 13 Someday (You'll Want Me To Want You) - Ricky Nelson 13 14 18 10 16 3340
    13 14 More Than Ever - Malcolm Vaughan 14 17 13 13 17 3060
    16 15 Kiss Me Honey Honey Kiss Me - Shirley Bassey 15 14 20 12 2690
    19 16 Cannonball - Duane Eddy 16 23 14 19 14 2525
    22 17 You Always Hurt The One You Love - Connie Francis 17 14 19 18 2355
    25 18 My Ukelele - Max Bygraves 19 19 15 19 2020
    24 19 King Creole - Elvis Presley 20 26 17 18 20 1905
    17 20 A Certain Smile - Johnny Mathis 17= 20 16 15 1840
    10 21 More Party Pops - Russ Conway 21 15 1710
    RE 22 Real Love - Ruby Murray 22 14 1355
    RE 23 As I Love You - Shirley Bassey 25 16 1050
    28 24 Woman From Liberia - Jimmie Rodgers 18 975
    NEW 25 Chantilly Lace - The Big Bopper 23 600
    14 26 Mary's Boy Child - Harry Belafonte 17 560
    15 27 Come Prima / Volare - Marino Marini 27 300
    RE 28 Am I Wasting My Time On You - Frankie Vaughan 28 225
    NEW 29 Queen Of The Hop - Bobby Darin 29 150
    NEW 30 The World Outside - Ronnie Hilton 30 75
    Mandolins In The Moonlight - Perry Como (B) 13
    18 The Son Of Mary - Harry Belafonte
    23 Lonnie's Skiffle Party - Lonnie Donegan
    27 Stupid Cupid / Carolina Moon - Connie Francis
    26 Mr Success - Frank Sinatra
    29 Tulips From Amsterdam / You Need Hands - Max Bygraves
    30 Move It - Cliff Richard

    Leave a comment:


  • braindeadpj
    replied
    Again, there's something funky about the BBC Chart as there's no way that Frank Sinatra can be at 20 with the 3 charts as is.
    However, except for the above, and A Certain Smile and Come Prima being switched, the 3 charts do fit perfectly.
    Last edited by braindeadpj; Thu May 12, 2022, 03:08.

    Leave a comment:


  • braindeadpj
    replied
    Originally posted by Splodj View Post

    To a certain extent you can reverse engineer the missing contributory chart. For example, Edwards at 6.
    The problem is that it may be 2 missing charts for calculating the BBC Chart. It is possible that both MM and Disc provided an 'interim' chart for the BBC. Without knowing for sure it is difficult to reconstruct. We can theoretically construct a 3rd chart fron the sum of the RM and NME chart that would be necessary to account for the BBC chart, but this would then be a composite of whatever data the MM and Disc provided (assuming they did provide anything).

    Incidently all different variants that I tried to compile the BBC chart last night had ties, whereas the BBC chart doesn't have ties. Coincidence or was someone tiebreaking?

    Leave a comment:


  • kingofskiffle
    replied
    I think your right. A single week you can do the stats and if your using two weeks you end up with too much guesswork. I feel one week works. You can do the bridging here reality easily. There is actually a lot of maths theory here that shows that gaps can be recreated from two items either side. So if you have item-gap-item you can find out what the gap is with reasonable certainly. When it becomes item-gap-gap2-item, finding out which is which out of gap or gap2 starts to be much more open to variation.

    for example, in gap, how do we know Hoots Mon did not fall to 3 and then recover to 2 in gap2? Or do the reverse? So I feel that the maths backs up the approach of leaving this out, as MrTibbs has done.

    Leave a comment:


  • MrTibbs
    replied
    I think with one missed chart you can get away with bridging, especially at the year end when chart movement is considerably slower and more static. It does provide a reasonable, possible chart outcome between two chart positions which is then averaged with others that were compiled to balance out extreme outliers.

    But to apply this to a second missed chart allows the likelihood of a greater degree of error to creep in by diluting possible chart positions even further over a three week period and I am keen to keep the UAC as accurate as it is possible to be.

    I genuinely do consider every possibility carefully to try and deliver the best chart outcome in every circumstance.
    I know my methodology, depth of chart at times etc, doesn't appeal to everybody and has been open to question and debate at times over the course of the thread. Some of these suggestions have indeed been useful though and I took these on board to incorporate along the way.

    I put a lot of time into this project but it's not always easy.

    Leave a comment:

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