Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

The Ultimate Averaged Chart - The BBC Chart Re-Imagined

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #51
    I agree Robin. It has been suggested Gambaccini disagreed with the choice of RR, so I thought it was interesting to hear him defend it.

    You said you had done some analysis about the two methods of awarding points to compose composite charts - upwards and downwards. Did you come to the same conclusion I did that there is no inherent difference between the two methods? Upwards gives zero points to a record outside the Top 30; downwards gives 31 points. My contention is that zero is equivalent to 31, nether is better than the other. If you discovered that a record outside the Top 30 was actually at number 40, both methods are 9 points out; upwards should have awarded minus 9 points (instead of zero) and downwards should have awarded 40 points (instead of 31).

    Comment


    • #52
      Greetings Pop Pickers ! Here is the Ultimate Averaged Chart for the Week Ending 14th March 1964.
      Before I add the chart can I just offer that irregardless of whether points up or points down is used that system alone is never going to compile a robust composite chart. Both methods lead to numerous ties and more importantly treats each music chart equally which they are clearly not, at least in respect of the number of store returns each use. Again, this is why I have factored in the number of store returns to represent the proportion of returns each music paper used to compile their chart. As you can clearly see from all my Ultimate Averaged charts thus far this doesn't hugely impact on the chart compiled by Inverse Points alone BUT it does enhance it by splitting the vast, vast, majority of ties, corrects errors made by the BBC, and makes the Top 30 much more accurate by removing points unfairly awarded to records that did not make any Top 30 but were all awarded 31 points by the BBC irregardless of where they would have placed outside the Top 30 in a Top 50. So to the chart...

      The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending March 14th 1964 BBC NME MM Disc RR
      Last This Chart Chart Chart Chart Chart
      Week Week Title and Artist Total Chart Positions 30
      1 1 Anyone Who Had A Heart - Cilla Black 1 1 1 2 1
      2 2 Bits And Pieces - The Dave Clark Five 2 2 2 1 2
      8 3 Little Children - Billy J Kramer and The Dakotas 3 3 3 3 3
      3 4 Diane - The Bachelors 4 4 5 4 4
      6 5 Not Fade Away - The Rolling Stones 5 5 4 5 5
      4 6 I Think Of You - The Merseybeats 6 6 6 6 8
      10 7 Boys Cry - Eden Kane 7 8 7 7 9
      17 8 Just One Look - The Hollies 8 7 12 8 6
      5 9 Needles And Pins - The Searchers 9 9 11 10 7
      7 10 Candy Man - Brian Poole and The Tremeloes 10 12 9 9 11
      12 11 Over You - Freddie and The Dreamers 12 10 8 13 18
      9 12 I'm The One - Gerry and The Pacemakers 11 11 10 14 12
      20 13 I Love You Because - Jim Reeves 13 14 14 12 14
      15 14 Stay Awhile - Dusty Springfield 14 15 13 16 13
      25 15 That Girl Belongs To Yesterday - Gene Pitney 15 13 18 11 16
      21 16 Let Me Go Lover - Kathy Kirby 16 16 20 15 10
      19 17 Borne On The Wind - Roy Orbison 17 19 17 20 15
      14 18 As Usual - Brenda Lee 18 21 15 21 17
      11 19 5 4 3 2 1 - Manfred Mann 19 22 16 18 20
      16 20 All My Loving (EP) - The Beatles 20 24 19 17
      27 21 Theme For Young Lovers - The Shadows 22 18 23 19 22
      13 22 I'm The Lonely One - Cliff Richard 21 20 21 22 21
      18 23 Baby I Love You - The Ronettes 23 25 22 25 19
      NEW 24 Tell Me When - The Applejacks 24 17 28 24 29
      22 25 The Rolling Stones (EP) - The Rolling Stones 25 26 25 23
      29 26 Eight By Ten - Ken Dodd 26 28 26 26 25
      23 27 For You - Rick Nelson 28 24 23
      RE 28 You Were There - Heinz 27 23 28 26
      24 29 Hippy Hippy Shake - The Swinging Blue Jeans 30 27 27
      26 30 I Want To Hold Your Hand - The Beatles 29 29 30 24
      King Of Kings - Ezz Reco and The Launchers 27
      It's An Open Secret - The Joy Strings 29 29
      If He Tells You - Adam Faith 30 27
      Don't Blame Me - Frank Ifield 30 28
      Glad All Over - The Dave Clark Five 30
      The Ultimate Averaged Chart. The Definitive Chart Reflecting The Fifties and Sixties.

      Comment


      • #53
        On Youtube there is a recording of this week's 'Pick Of The Pops' and a recording from the w/e 11-Jan-64 featured on the previous page.

        What I think both of these recordings show is that the BBC was serious about its chart at the time. Alan Freeman goes into detail about every position in the Top 20, attaching great importance to how each one is moving up or down or staying static. Then on TOTP there was that huge display of the Top 20 visible behind the dj and beside the acts in the studio. Both shows had massive audiences. Just because it did not appear in print, I do not think its role as the chart most people knew about should be underestimated.

        I think it is a shame that they did not take more care over its compilation, particularly in respect of tiebreaking, so that it could have formed the basis for what became the official chart. That is why I am interested in this thread; it is a great 'what might have been'.

        With regard to whether upwards or downwards is better, I hold no religious attachment to my view that they are both equally good/bad. I would be quite happy to be proved wrong!
        Last edited by Splodj; Mon June 22, 2020, 11:46.

        Comment


        • #54
          The next chart coming up will be the chart from the week I was born so I'm looking forward to it...

          Comment


          • #55
            Originally posted by Splodj View Post
            On Youtube there is a recording of this week's 'Pick Of The Pops' and a recording from the w/e 11-Jan-64 featured on the previous page.

            What I think both of these recordings show is that the BBC was serious about its chart at the time. Alan Freeman goes into detail about every position in the Top 20, attaching great importance to how each one is moving up or down or staying static. Then on TOTP there was that huge display of the Top 20 visible behind the dj and beside the acts in the studio. Both shows had massive audiences. Just because it did not appear in print, I do not think its role as the chart most people knew about should be underestimated.

            I think it is a shame that they did not take more care over its compilation, particularly in respect of tiebreaking, so that it could have formed the basis for what became the official chart. That is why I am interested in this thread; it is a great 'what might have been'.

            With regard to whether upwards or downwards is better, I hold no religious attachment to my view that they are both equally good/bad. I would be quite happy to be proved wrong!
            I wonder why the BBC POTP / TOTP chart did not become the chart of record for the 1960s? Did it not appear anywhere in print?

            One thing that is sad is that the chart is now completely overlooked. When Alan Freeman started to present the oldies chart version of Pick Of The Pops in the 90s he used the authentic BBC chart. However when he left the programme and was replaced by Dale Winton around the turn of the millennium the programme began to use the Record Retailer chart (and the NME chart from prior to March 1960), effectively writing the BBC chart into history.

            Comment


            • #56
              I have always held the view that the principle behind the BBC charts was correct, but it was their methodology of compilation that let them down. It may have been presented seriously Splodj but their chart was compiled for entertainment programmes rather than as a serious chart, hence why it was never published or promoted. Furthermore, the number of errors in compilation made time and time again should not have happened if it was a serious chart. I was actually told by Dave Taylor, who communicated with Derek Chinnery who compiled the BBC chart for many years that he gave the music papers to his daughter, a school child, who totalled up the figures in a note book for him.
              I think that speaks volumes for how seriously it was compiled and checked. Also the BBC now want the fact they had a chart paint brushed out of history, they actually denied its existence to not only Dave Taylor but also to myself when I once enquired about it. You will notice now on Paul Gambaccini's POTP as with Tony Blackburn before him that the BBC now don't use their own chart but go with the 'official' ha ha ha chart of the sixties, and yeah I am one of disciplines also who denounce the RR chart of being titled as such.
              The Ultimate Averaged Chart. The Definitive Chart Reflecting The Fifties and Sixties.

              Comment


              • #57
                Greetings Pop Pickers !
                Hey Robbie, here is the chart you are waiting for. These charts are the 'chart of charts' so they have to be the most accurate reflecting the times, based on all major charts, compiled accurately and in proportion to music papers number of store returns. Enjoy.

                The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending March 21st 1964 BBC NME MM Disc RR
                Last This Chart Chart Chart Chart Chart
                Week Week Title and Artist Total Chart Positions 30
                3 1 Little Children - Billy J Kramer and The Dakotas 1 1 1 1 1
                1 2 Anyone Who Had A Heart - Cilla Black 2 2 2 2 3
                5 3 Not Fade Away - The Rolling Stones 4 3 3 5 4
                2 4 Bits And Pieces - The Dave Clark Five 3 4 4 3 2
                8 5 Just One Look - The Hollies 5 5 5 4 5
                4 6 Diane - The Bachelors 6 6 6 6 6
                13 7 I Love You Because - Jim Reeves 8 7 7 9 9
                6 8 I Think Of You - The Merseybeats 7 8 9 7 7
                7 9 Boys Cry - Eden Kane 9 9 8 8 8
                15 10 That Girl Belongs To Yesterday - Gene Pitney 10 10 10 10 12
                11 11 Over You - Freddie and The Dreamers 12 12 11 14 16
                10 12 Candy Man - Brian Poole and The Tremeloes 13 15 12 11 15
                16 13 Let Me Go Lover - Kathy Kirby 11 16 13 12 11
                21 14 Theme For Young Lovers - The Shadows 15 14 15 16 14
                9 15 Needles And Pins - The Searchers 14 18 16 13 10
                14 16 Stay Awhile - Dusty Springfield 16 17 14 18 13
                24 17 Tell Me When - The Applejacks 17 13 17 17 18
                17 18 Borne On The Wind - Roy Orbison 18 19 19 20 17
                NEW 19 I Believe - The Bachelors 19 11 24 15 28
                12 20 I'm The One - Gerry and The Pacemakers 20 23 18 19 19
                20 21 All My Loving (EP) - The Beatles 21 29 20 21
                NEW 22 Viva Las Vegas - Elvis Presley 23 24 23 22 29
                18 23 As Usual - Brenda Lee 22 21 25 20
                25 24 The Rolling Stones (EP) - The Rolling Stones 24 27 26 23
                19 25 5 4 3 2 1 - Manfred Mann 25 22 28 22
                NEW 26 Good Golly Miss Molly - The Swinging Blue Jeans 26 20 24
                NEW 27 A World Without Love - Peter and Gordon 27 21 30 26
                22 28 I'm The Lonely One - Cliff Richard 29 25 24
                26 29 Eight By Ten - Ken Dodd 28 30 27 30 23
                NEW 30 My Boy Lollipop - Millie 22
                Baby I Love You - The Ronettes 29 28 21
                If He Tells You - Adam Faith 28 29 27
                King Of Kings - Ezz Reco and The Launchers 25
                It's An Open Secret - The Joy Strings 26
                I Want To Hold Your Hand - The Beatles 25
                You Were There - Heinz 26
                For You - Rick Nelson 27
                Move Over Darling - Doris Day 29
                Don't Blame Me - Frank Ifield 30
                The Ultimate Averaged Chart. The Definitive Chart Reflecting The Fifties and Sixties.

                Comment


                • #58
                  Greetings Pop Pickers ! Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending March 28th 1964.
                  The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending March 28th 1964 BBC NME MM Disc RR
                  Last This Chart Chart Chart Chart Chart
                  Week Week Title and Artist Total Chart Positions 30
                  NEW 1 Can't Buy Me Love - The Beatles 1 1 1 1 8
                  1 2 Little Children - Billy J Kramer and The Dakotas 2 2 2 2 1
                  5 3 Just One Look - The Hollies 3 3 3 3 2
                  3 4 Not Fade Away - The Rolling Stones 4 4 4 5 3
                  4 5 Bits And Pieces - The Dave Clark Five 5 6 6 4 6
                  7 6 I Love You Because - Jim Reeves 6 7 5 6 5
                  2 7 Anyone Who Had A Heart - Cilla Black 7 8 7 7 4
                  10 8 That Girl Belongs To Yesterday - Gene Pitney 8 8 8 8 7
                  19 9 I Believe - The Bachelors 9 5 9 9 11
                  6 10 Diane - The Bachelors 10 11 10 11 10
                  17 11 Tell Me When - The Applejacks 11 10 11 12 12
                  9 12 Boys Cry - Eden Kane 12 12 12 14 9
                  14 13 Theme For Young Lovers - The Shadows 14 14 13 15 13
                  27 14 A World Without Love - Peter and Gordon 13 13 15 10 16
                  8 15 I Think Of You - The Merseybeats 15 15 14 13 14
                  13 16 Let Me Go Lover - Kathy Kirby 16 20 16 18 15
                  12 17 Candy Man - Brian Poole and The Tremeloes 17 19 18 16 19
                  11 18 Over You - Freddie and The Dreamers 18 18 17 19 21
                  26 19 Good Golly Miss Molly - The Swinging Blue Jeans 19 16 21 17 23
                  22 20 Viva Las Vegas - Elvis Presley 20 17 20 24 20
                  16 21 Stay Awhile - Dusty Springfield 21 23 19 22 17
                  18 22 Borne On The Wind - Roy Orbison 22 21 22 21 22
                  15 23 Needles And Pins - The Searchers 23 23 20 18
                  NEW 24 Move Over Darling - Doris Day 24 25 26 25 26
                  30 25 My Boy Lollipop - Millie 27 21 29 28 28
                  20 26 I'm The One - Gerry and The Pacemakers 26 28 25 27 25
                  21 27 All My Loving (EP) - The Beatles 25 24 23
                  NEW 28 If He Tells You - Adam Faith 28 24 27 30
                  23 29 As Usual - Brenda Lee 29 28 24
                  NEW 30 King Of Kings - Ezz Reco and The Launchers 30= 26
                  It's An Open Secret - The Joy Strings 27
                  New Orleans - Bern Elliot and The Fenmen 30= 26
                  The Rolling Stones (EP) - The Rolling Stones 30 30
                  Mocking Bird Hill - The Migil Five 29
                  Eight By Ten - Ken Dodd 27
                  Everything's Allright - The Mojos 29
                  My World Of Blue - Karl Denver 29
                  Baby I Love You - The Ronettes 30
                  Last edited by MrTibbs; Wed January 13, 2021, 14:11.
                  The Ultimate Averaged Chart. The Definitive Chart Reflecting The Fifties and Sixties.

                  Comment


                  • #59
                    Originally posted by MrTibbs View Post
                    I have always held the view that the principle behind the BBC charts was correct, but it was their methodology of compilation that let them down. It may have been presented seriously Splodj but their chart was compiled for entertainment programmes rather than as a serious chart, hence why it was never published or promoted. Furthermore, the number of errors in compilation made time and time again should not have happened if it was a serious chart. I was actually told by Dave Taylor, who communicated with Derek Chinnery who compiled the BBC chart for many years that he gave the music papers to his daughter, a school child, who totalled up the figures in a note book for him.
                    I think that speaks volumes for how seriously it was compiled and checked. Also the BBC now want the fact they had a chart paint brushed out of history, they actually denied its existence to not only Dave Taylor but also to myself when I once enquired about it. You will notice now on Paul Gambaccini's POTP as with Tony Blackburn before him that the BBC now don't use their own chart but go with the 'official' ha ha ha chart of the sixties, and yeah I am one of disciplines also who denounce the RR chart of being titled as such.
                    None of this surprises me. In the 60's the BBC hated pop music, they simply had to use it though. Let's not forget that Pirate Radio Stations were using their own charts rather than use any other charts. The BBC hated the Pirates too. The UK Government even put pressure on the BBC not to let this "American" top 40 "rubbish" into the UK. As it was spoiling the British Culture!
                    Of course later on when the BBC started paying for the charts, and the Record Retailer charts were brought on board by the compilers of the first British Hit Singles book, so the BBC washed their hands of the former charts.
                    Alan Freeman's chart show was a strict laid out format scripted even down to his catch phrases! The "Pick" was so they could avoid playing records that didn't meet standards set by the BBC.
                    In the end however it was the messy system of charts that brought about the compilation of the Top 50 from an actual sales based chart and not a point based one, with the BBC as the driving force behind it.
                    Education for anyone aged 12 to 16 has made a mess of the world!

                    Comment


                    • #60
                      Thanks for the chart from the week I was born Mr Tibbs. I always thought that the title of the number 1 ('Little Children') was an appropriate title for a number 1 on the day I was born although the lyrics tell a different sory (it's about a guy being caught kissing the child's sister!).

                      When Alan Freeman started to present Pick Of The Pops in the 1960s I believe that all of the BBC's output was scripted. It may even have been, to a degree, when Radio 1 began. I've read up on the potted history of how the BMRB chart started - I'll not spoil any surprises until we get to the relevant dates (there is a good write up in a Billboard issue from the 1960s about how and why the chart was created though much of it is probably already known) - but it is a good and informative read.

                      Comment


                      • #61
                        At least the BBC ignored RR and put 'Can't Buy Me Love' at number one, and I can remember it was played a lot on the Light Programme that weekend. Radio Caroline had just arrived and didn't even have it on board.

                        George Martin is praised for spotting The Beatles talent when others rejected them, but before he signed them they passed a BBC audition and had appeared on two programmes. They went on to record 30 songs for the BBC that they never released on disc.

                        There were a lot of things wrong with the BBC but they did do a lot of good things. And as Robbie has pointed out Radio 1 was using the BBC's own old charts on the retrospective POTP in the 90's. It was only after the cull of the old DJs and when POTP transferred to Radio 2 that they changed.

                        Comment


                        • #62
                          What you say is spot on Graham and that is really revealing about Alan Freemans shows being tightly scripted. Robbie I'd be really interested in reading that Billboard article , any idea where I can find it ?
                          Caroline and Luxembourg, how I loved them both. I'm getting nostalgic now lol.
                          The Ultimate Averaged Chart. The Definitive Chart Reflecting The Fifties and Sixties.

                          Comment


                          • #63
                            Originally posted by MrTibbs View Post
                            What you say is spot on Graham and that is really revealing about Alan Freemans shows being tightly scripted. Robbie I'd be really interested in reading that Billboard article , any idea where I can find it ?
                            Caroline and Luxembourg, how I loved them both. I'm getting nostalgic now lol.
                            I posted a link to two of the articles, from the Billboard issues dated 10 August 1968 and 19 October 1968. There are a couple more which I'll see if I can find. The links to those two articles from August and October 1968 are in a post I made in August 2018

                            https://www.ukmix.org/forum/chart-di...78#post9420378

                            Incidentally I have a feeling that the BBC representative mentioned in the Billboard issue dated 10 August 1968 and whose name is given as Robin Scott may be the same Robin Scott who had a massive hit as M with 'Pop Muzik' in 1979. It seems he did work for the BBC for a while around the late 60s and early 70s. If it's not him then it's a coincidence.
                            Last edited by Robbie; Tue June 23, 2020, 00:29.

                            Comment


                            • #64
                              Since no one has said anything yet, I'll ask you Brian: are you creating a special rule for #1 on your Ultimate chart?

                              Comment


                              • #65
                                Yes Robin, No 1 in all fairness has to be clearly what is No 1 in most charts. In the case of the Beatles above they were No 1 in MM NME DISC and only denied No 1 in the Ultimate Chart by being No 8 in RR, the chart with the least store returns. So this rule will consistently apply through all the years where any single tops all charts except just one.
                                The Ultimate Averaged Chart. The Definitive Chart Reflecting The Fifties and Sixties.

                                Comment


                                • #66
                                  Thanks for those links Robbie. Much appreciated.
                                  The Ultimate Averaged Chart. The Definitive Chart Reflecting The Fifties and Sixties.

                                  Comment


                                  • #67
                                    Greetings Pop Pickers ! Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending April 4th 1964.

                                    The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending April 4th 1964 BBC NME MM Disc RR
                                    Last This Chart Chart Chart Chart Chart
                                    Week Week Title and Artist Total Chart Positions 30
                                    1 1 Can't Buy Me Love - The Beatles 1 1 1 1 1
                                    2 2 Little Children - Billy J Kramer and The Dakotas 2 3 2 2 2
                                    3 3 Just One Look - The Hollies 3 4 3 3 3
                                    9 4 I Believe - The Bachelors 4 2 4 6 6
                                    4 5 Not Fade Away - The Rolling Stones 5 5 5 4 4
                                    14 6 A World Without Love - Peter and Gordon 7 5 6 7 13
                                    6 7 I Love You Because - Jim Reeves 6 7 9 5 5
                                    8 8 That Girl Belongs To Yesterday - Gene Pitney 8 8 7 8 9
                                    11 9 Tell Me When - The Applejacks 9 9 8 9 11
                                    5 10 Bits And Pieces - The Dave Clark Five 10 10 10 10 7
                                    7 11 Anyone Who Had A Heart - Cilla Black 11 11 11 11 10
                                    10 12 Diane - The Bachelors 12 12 13 13 8
                                    13 13 Theme For Young Lovers - The Shadows 13 14 12 12 14
                                    19 14 Good Golly Miss Molly - The Swinging Blue Jeans 15 13 14 16 20
                                    12 15 Boys Cry - Eden Kane 14 19 15 14 12
                                    20 16 Viva Las Vegas - Elvis Presley 16 16 17 15 18
                                    15 17 I Think Of You - The Merseybeats 17 18 18 17 15
                                    16 18 Let Me Go Lover - Kathy Kirby 18 25 16 18 17
                                    18 19 Over You - Freddie and The Dreamers 19 22 19 22 16
                                    24 20 Move Over Darling - Doris Day 20 21 20 19 23
                                    17 21 Candy Man - Brian Poole and The Tremeloes 21 20 22 21 22
                                    21 22 Stay Awhile - Dusty Springfield 22 23 21 24 19
                                    25 23 My Boy Lollipop - Millie 23 15 25 28 27
                                    22 24 Borne On The Wind - Roy Orbison 24 26 24 29 24
                                    NEW 25 Mocking Bird Hill - The Migil Five 17 30
                                    27 26 All My Loving (EP) - The Beatles 26= 23 27
                                    NEW 27 Everything's Alright - The Mojos 26= 26 20
                                    28 28 If He Tells You - Adam Faith 26= 27 23 25
                                    23 29 Needles And Pins - The Searchers 25 30 30 26 21
                                    NEW 30 New Orleans - Bern Elliot and The Fenmen 30 27 25 30
                                    Juliet - The Four Pennies 24
                                    I'm The One - Gerry and The Pacemakers 26= 28 28
                                    King Of Kings - Ezz Reco and The Launchers 28
                                    The Rolling Stones (EP) - The Rolling Stones 29
                                    Eight By Ten - Ken Dodd 26
                                    Only You - Mark Wynter 29
                                    As Usual - Brenda Lee 29
                                    The Ultimate Averaged Chart. The Definitive Chart Reflecting The Fifties and Sixties.

                                    Comment


                                    • #68
                                      Originally posted by MrTibbs View Post
                                      So this rule will consistently apply through all the years where any single tops all charts except just one.
                                      And we all know which 'one' that will be!

                                      Comment


                                      • #69
                                        Yes I dare say they might have 'one' or more, lol.
                                        The Ultimate Averaged Chart. The Definitive Chart Reflecting The Fifties and Sixties.

                                        Comment


                                        • #70
                                          Greetings Pop Pickers ! Here is the Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending 11th April 1964.

                                          The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending April 11th 1964 BBC NME MM Disc RR
                                          Last This Chart Chart Chart Chart Chart
                                          Week Week Title and Artist Total Chart Positions 30
                                          1 1 Can't Buy Me Love - The Beatles 1 1 1 1 1
                                          6 2 A World Without Love - Peter and Gordon 2 2 2 2 4
                                          4 3 I Believe - The Bachelors 3 2 3 3 3
                                          2 4 Little Children - Billy J Kramer and The Dakotas 4 4 4 4 2
                                          3 5 Just One Look - The Hollies 5 5 5 5 5
                                          5 6 Not Fade Away - The Rolling Stones 7 7 7 8 6
                                          9 7 Tell Me When - The Applejacks 8 8 6 6 9
                                          7 8 I Love You Because - Jim Reeves 6 6 8 7 7
                                          8 9 That Girl Belongs To Yesterday - Gene Pitney 9 9 9 9 8
                                          10 10 Bits And Pieces - The Dave Clark Five 10 12 10 10 10
                                          14 11 Good Golly Miss Molly - The Swinging Blue Jeans 11 11 11 11 14
                                          13 12 Theme For Young Lovers - The Shadows 13 15 12 13 12
                                          11 13 Anyone Who Had A Heart - Cilla Black 12 14 14 12 11
                                          23 14 My Boy Lollipop - Millie 14 10 16 15 16
                                          20 15 Move Over Darling - Doris Day 15 16 13 17 15
                                          12 16 Diane - The Bachelors 16 19 15 14 13
                                          16 17 Viva Las Vegas - Elvis Presley 17 17 17 18 17
                                          27 18 Everything's Alright - The Mojos 18 18 18 16 18
                                          15 19 Boys Cry - Eden Kane 19 20 20 19 21
                                          17 20 I Think Of You - The Merseybeats 20 22 19 20 20
                                          25 21 Mocking Bird Hill - The Migil Five 21= 13 24 22 30
                                          18 22 Let Me Go Lover - Kathy Kirby 21= 28 21 21 19
                                          19 23 Over You - Freddie and The Dreamers 23 30 22 23 22
                                          30 24 New Orleans - Bern Elliot and The Fenmen 24 23 24 24
                                          21 25 Candy Man - Brian Poole and The Tremeloes 25 25 27 28 26
                                          22 26 Stay Awhile - Dusty Springfield 26 25 29 23
                                          NEW 27 Juliet - The Four Pennies 29 21
                                          NEW 28 Think - Brenda Lee 27 24 26
                                          28 29 If He Tells You - Adam Faith 28 26 25
                                          NEW 30 Hi-Heel Sneakers - Tommy Tucker 23
                                          All My Loving (EP) - The Beatles 30 28 27
                                          Top 6 No 3 - Various Artists 26
                                          It's So Nice - The Gamblers 27
                                          Only You - Mark Wynter 25
                                          Borne On The Wind - Roy Orbison 30 28
                                          The Rolling Stones (EP) - The Rolling Stones 29
                                          Needles And Pins - The Searchers 30 27
                                          King Of Kings - Ezz Reco and The Launchers 29
                                          Eight By Ten - Ken Dodd 29
                                          The Ultimate Averaged Chart. The Definitive Chart Reflecting The Fifties and Sixties.

                                          Comment


                                          • #71
                                            Guys, do you find it helpful to see all the music paper charts and the BBC chart side by side to make comparisons ?
                                            The Ultimate Averaged Chart. The Definitive Chart Reflecting The Fifties and Sixties.

                                            Comment


                                            • #72
                                              Definitely, to see the whole picture.

                                              Comment


                                              • #73
                                                Yes, I like the layout as it makes it much easier to compare each music paper / BBC chart to the Ultimate Averaged Chart.

                                                Comment


                                                • #74
                                                  Greetings Pop Pickers !

                                                  Thanks guys above for your response to my question.

                                                  Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending 18th April 1964.

                                                  The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending April 18th 1964 BBC NME MM Disc RR
                                                  Last This Chart Chart Chart Chart Chart
                                                  Week Week Title and Artist Total Chart Positions 30
                                                  2 1 A World Without Love - Peter and Gordon 1 2 1 1 2
                                                  1 2 Can't Buy Me Love - The Beatles 2 1 2 3 1
                                                  3 3 I Believe - The Bachelors 3 3 3 2 3
                                                  4 4 Little Children - Billy J Kramer and The Dakotas 4 4 4 4 4
                                                  7 5 Tell Me When - The Applejacks 5 5 5 5 7
                                                  8 6 I Love You Because - Jim Reeves 6 7 6 6 5
                                                  6 7 Not Fade Away - The Rolling Stones 7 9 7 7 8
                                                  14 8 My Boy Lollipop - Millie 8 6 9 8 10
                                                  5 9 Just One Look - The Hollies 9 10 8 10 6
                                                  9 10 That Girl Belongs To Yesterday - Gene Pitney 10 12 10 11 9
                                                  15 11 Move Over Darling - Doris Day 11 11 12 12 12
                                                  NEW 12 Don't Throw Your Love Away - The Searchers 12 8 14 9 20
                                                  18 13 Everything's Alright - The Mojos 14 15 11 13 13
                                                  11 14 Good Golly Miss Molly - The Swinging Blue Jeans 13 13 13 14 11
                                                  21 15 Mocking Bird Hill - The Migil Five 16 14 16 15 17
                                                  10 16 Bits And Pieces - The Dave Clark Five 15 16 17 16 14
                                                  12 17 Theme For Young Lovers - The Shadows 17 17 15 17 19
                                                  17 18 Viva Las Vegas - Elvis Presley 19 23 18 21 18
                                                  13 19 Anyone Who Had A Heart - Cilla Black 18 26 19 18 15
                                                  16 20 Diane - The Bachelors 20 30 20 23 16
                                                  27 21 Juliet - The Four Pennies 24 19 27 25
                                                  24 22 New Orleans - Bern Elliot and The Fenmen 21 21 22 24
                                                  NEW 23 Hubble Bubble Toil And Trouble - Manfred Mann 22 21 29 20 29
                                                  NEW 24 Don't Let The Sun Catch You Crying - Gerry and The Pacemakers 23 20 30 19
                                                  19 25 Boys Cry - Eden Kane 26= 26 24 23
                                                  20 26 I Think Of You - The Merseybeats 25 22 29 21
                                                  NEW 27 Walk On By - Dionne Warwick 26= 18 24
                                                  28 28 Think - Brenda Lee 28 25 26 27 27
                                                  23 29 Over You - Freddie and The Dreamers 30 23 25
                                                  22 30 Let Me Go Lover - Kathy Kirby 29 25 22
                                                  Don't Turn Around - The Merseybeats 22 28
                                                  Hi-Heel Sneakers - Tommy Tucker 24 26
                                                  If He Tells You - Adam Faith 28 26
                                                  Baby Let Me Take You Home - The Animals 28
                                                  Angry At The Big Oak Tree - Frank Ifield 29 30
                                                  Stay Awhile - Dusty Springfield 28
                                                  Candy Man - Brian Poole and The Tremeloes 30
                                                  The Ultimate Averaged Chart. The Definitive Chart Reflecting The Fifties and Sixties.

                                                  Comment


                                                  • #75
                                                    Hello
                                                    I would also like to pass my congrats to MrTibbs for his Record Mirror posts – the dealer charts - like Tutankhamun!
                                                    In doing the BBC charts, this is an interesting endeavour.

                                                    I certainly do not want to 'rock the boat' etc., but I have some observations;

                                                    As a weekly chart-watcher since 1962, I was a keen follower of the BBC Master chart, to the extent I took it upon myself eventually to re-calculate the occasional wayward BBC chart compilations. I have all the BBC charts (and most of the calculations) from July 1963 to February 1969. Before July 1963 Messrs Jacobs and Freeman were often coy about Nos. 11-20, hence not complete until then. I also have the calculations of all subsequent weeks from February 1969 until to October 1996.

                                                    I am pleased to say your 1/2/64 chart is largely the same.


                                                    I think a compiler would have to bear several points in mind:
                                                    1. Start date of 28/9/57 [BBC], or 1955?
                                                    2. End date of 8/2/69 [BBC], or when there ceased to be any bona fide industry journal rivals to MW [1996]? I am aware of the points-of-view.
                                                    3. You will have to decide how to treat joint positions: mathematically logical, yet irrational [e.g. 10/3/63 or 28/3/65, where the BBC chart is joint-crazy];
                                                    4. You will have to decide how to treat double-sided hits, as the NME split the sales of A-side and B-side on up to 70 singles between 1952 and 1969, as did MM for a while;
                                                    5. You will have to decide how to treat EPs, as RR excluded them from the SP chart because they had their own EP chart;
                                                    6. You will have to decide how to treat LPs, as the NME included them in their SP chart from time to time, despite having their own LP chart;
                                                    7. You will have to decide how to treat different editions of the same recording on the rare moments when 2 labels had hits with exactly the same recording, and RR separated the sales.
                                                    8. You may find that 30 points for No. 1, 29 points for 2, etc. works better than 1 point for No.1 etc when compensatory calculations are required.

                                                    Half the fun is the calculation. Good luck!

                                                    Comment

                                                    Working...
                                                    X