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The Ultimate Averaged Chart - The BBC Chart Re-Imagined

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  • Graham76man
    commented on 's reply
    Ironic since if it wasn't for the Beatles, Gerry wouldn't have been signed.

  • Splodj
    replied
    Apparently Gerry copied the Beatles arrangement for How Do You Do It rather than that on the acetate demo, so they made a contribution. But Gerry's version is better, mainly because he sounds like he does actually want to sing it!

    Leave a comment:


  • brian05
    replied
    26 Let's Turkey Trot / Old Smokey Locomotion - Little Eva

    How come this is a double A-side?
    Did the flip side make an appearance in any top 50 chart?

    Leave a comment:


  • MrTibbs
    replied
    Yeah if it wasn't for The Beatles it would have been Gerry's year Brian but he was relegated to their shadow.

    Leave a comment:


  • brian05
    replied
    My favourite new entry - Gerry and the Pacemakers with How do you do it?
    A future no. 1? We shall see.

    Leave a comment:


  • MrTibbs
    replied
    Cliff finally captures the #1 position this week but as we all know The Beatles have only commenced their chart campaign.

    Another two cracking new entries this week that I still love to this day, Buddy Holly's Brown Eyed Handsome Man, and Roy Orbison's In Dreams. As Cathy McGowan used to say on Ready Steady Go, ' I Think It's Smashing'

    Leave a comment:


  • MrTibbs
    replied
    Greetings Pop Pickers !

    Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending March 16th 1963

    The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending March 16th 1963 NME MM DISC RR Total
    Last This The Sound Survey Stores 100 150 50 30 Points
    Week Week The Top 30 Singles Chart BBC TOP 30 Scored
    2 1 Summer Holiday / Dancing Shoes - Cliff Richard 1 1 1 1 1 9900
    1 2 Please Please Me - The Beatles 2 2 2 2 2 9570
    5 3 That's What Love Will Do - Joe Brown 4 5 3 5 3 8940
    6 4 Like I've Never Been Gone - Billy Fury 3 3 5 3 4 8910
    3 5 The Night Has A Thousand Eyes - Bobby Vee 5 6 4 4 5 8680
    19 6 Foot Tapper - The Shadows 6 4 6 6 9 8360
    4 7 The Wayward Wind - Frank Ifield 7 7 7 7 7 7920
    9 8 Island Of Dreams - The Springfields 8 9 8 11 6 7400
    11 9 Hey Paula - Paul and Paula 9 11 9 9 8 7090
    10 10 Tell Him - Billie Davis 10 13 10 8 10 6730
    14 11 One Broken Heart For Sale - Elvis Presley 11 8 13 10 12 6620
    7 12 Loop-De-Loop - Frankie Vaughan 13 12 11 13 13 6340
    15 13 Charmaine - The Bachelors 12 10 15 12 11 6050
    8 14 Diamonds - Jet Harris and Tony Meehan 14 16 12 16 14 5610
    12 15 Hava Nagila - The Spotnicks 15 18 14 15 23 4890
    13 16 Walk Right In - The Rooftop Singers 17 21 16 21 15 4230
    23 17 From A Jack To A King - Ned Miller 16 17 22 14 16 4050
    26 18 Rhythm Of The Rain - The Cascades 18 15 23 17 17 3920
    16 19 Little Town Flirt - Del Shannon 20 23 17 20 18 3840
    28 20 Say Wonderful Things - Ronnie Carroll 19 14 24 18 21 3700
    21 21 Cupboard Love - John Leyton 21 20 20 19 22 3620
    18 22 Sukiyaki - Kenny Ball 22 22 18 25 20 3480
    17 23 All Alone Am I - Brenda Lee 23 25 19 23 19 3160
    22 24 Hi-Lili Hi-Lo - Richard Chamberlain 24 24 21 22 24 2860
    20 25 Bachelor Boy / The Next Time - Cliff Richard 25 26 25 26 25 1830
    NEW 26 Let's Turkey Trot / Old Smokey Locomotion - Little Eva 26 28 26 27 26 1400
    NEW 27 Brown Eyed Handsome Man - Buddy Holly 27 19 29 1300
    NEW 28 Pied Piper - Steve Race 28 27 28 29 810
    24 29 Like I Do - Maureen Evans 30= 28 27 570
    NEW 30 In Dreams - Roy Orbison 29 27 30 28 540
    25 Globetrotter - The Tornados 30 29 400
    B How Do You Do It - Gerry and The Pacemakers 30= 24 350
    X My Kind Of Girl - Frank Sinatra 29 200
    27 A Taste Of Honey - Mr. Acker Bilk 30 150
    30 Boss Guitar - Duane Eddy 30 30
    29 My Little Girl - The Crickets

    Leave a comment:


  • Splodj
    replied
    oops, that escaped my notice

    Leave a comment:


  • RokinRobinOfLocksley
    replied
    Originally posted by Splodj View Post
    It is one of those instances where what happened (Cliff replaced Beatles) is clearer than when it happened. As POTP was broadcast over a week after the survey period, their joint Beatles/Cliff number one was probably quite appropriate.

    What I think is significant is that The Wayward Wind never achieved number one in the BBC chart either, even in a joint position. The only non-RR chart to have it at number one was the NME in one of their many joint-tops. RRs 3-week Ifield reign is an oddity in itself, apart from it blotting out the Beatles.
    FYI, Disc had The Wayward Wind at #1 on Feb 16...

    Leave a comment:


  • Splodj
    replied
    It is one of those instances where what happened (Cliff replaced Beatles) is clearer than when it happened. As POTP was broadcast over a week after the survey period, their joint Beatles/Cliff number one was probably quite appropriate.

    What I think is significant is that The Wayward Wind never achieved number one in the BBC chart either, even in a joint position. The only non-RR chart to have it at number one was the NME in one of their many joint-tops. RRs 3-week Ifield reign is an oddity in itself, apart from it blotting out the Beatles.

    Leave a comment:


  • brian05
    replied
    The BBC had a joint no. 1 so that is fine by me. But still 3 weeks at no. 1 for The Beatles.

    Leave a comment:


  • MrTibbs
    replied
    Originally posted by braindeadpj View Post
    As much as I agree with The Beatles being no.1, iI wonder whether it should really be Cliff. Beatles win out on points, but Cliff wins out on number of no.1s (2 vs 1), best top 3 (112 vs 122), though they are equal on sum (8).
    What has made a difference here is #1 is a three way split brain. The 3 point rule only kicks in when a record is #1 on all other charts but loses out on points, otherwise it's a straight points win.

    Leave a comment:


  • Graham76man
    replied
    Originally posted by MrTibbs View Post

    Yip ! All the evidence proves this should always have been the official #1 for these 3 weeks.
    But on sales only - not "points" they were only two weeks, they lost out to Cliff Richard that very week. Even the NME and Disc charts agreed on that. How Melody Maker got Cliff at four is beyond me

    Leave a comment:


  • braindeadpj
    replied
    As much as I agree with The Beatles being no.1, iI wonder whether it should really be Cliff. Beatles win out on points, but Cliff wins out on number of no.1s (2 vs 1), best top 3 (112 vs 122), though they are equal on sum (8).
    Last edited by braindeadpj; Sun April 18, 2021, 18:53.

    Leave a comment:


  • MrTibbs
    replied
    Originally posted by brian05 View Post
    And 3 weeks at no. 1 in the BBC combined chart - yet history (well the OCC using RR chart) says they never even reached no. 1.
    A complete travesty!
    Yip ! All the evidence proves this should always have been the official #1 for these 3 weeks.

    Leave a comment:


  • brian05
    replied
    And 3 weeks at no. 1 in the BBC combined chart - yet history (well the OCC using RR chart) says they never even reached no. 1.
    A complete travesty!

    Leave a comment:


  • MrTibbs
    replied
    The Beatles hold for a 3rd straight week at #1 on The Ultimate Chart.

    Because of ties the BBC chart has 5 records in the top three. Crazy !

    Leave a comment:


  • MrTibbs
    replied
    Greetings Pop Pickers !

    Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending March 9th 1963

    The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending March 9th 1963 NME MM DISC RR Total
    Last This The Sound Survey Stores 100 150 50 30 Points
    Week Week The Top 30 Singles Chart BBC TOP 30 Scored
    1 1 Please Please Me - The Beatles 1= 2 1 2 3 9690
    6 2 Summer Holiday / Dancing Shoes - Cliff Richard 1= 1 4 1 2 9420
    3 3 The Night Has A Thousand Eyes - Bobby Vee 3= 4 3 3 4 9110
    2 4 The Wayward Wind - Frank Ifield 3= 6 2 5 1 9050
    7 5 That's What Love Will Do - Joe Brown 5 3 5 4 5 8830
    12 6 Like I've Never Been Gone - Billy Fury 6 5 8 6 6 8050
    4 7 Loop-De-Loop - Frankie Vaughan 7 7 7 7 8 7890
    5 8 Diamonds - Jet Harris and Tony Meehan 8 10 6 9 7 7670
    8 9 Island Of Dreams - The Springfields 9 9 9 10 9 7210
    16 10 Tell Him - Billie Davis 10 12 12 8 14 6410
    15 11 Hey Paula - Paul and Paula 11 14 11 13 11 6200
    14 12 Hava Nagila - The Spotnicks 12 16 10 11 16 6100
    11 13 Walk Right In - The Rooftop Singers 13= 15 14 17 10 5480
    28 14 One Broken Heart For Sale - Elvis Presley 15 8 18 15 18 5440
    17 15 Charmaine - The Bachelors 13= 13 17 14 12 5320
    9 16 Little Town Flirt - Del Shannon 16 19 13 16 13 5190
    13 17 All Alone Am I - Brenda Lee 17 17 16 19 15 4730
    10 18 Sukiyaki - Kenny Ball 18 20 15 18 17 4570
    NEW 19 Foot Tapper - The Shadows 19 11 24 12 25 4180
    18 20 Bachelor Boy / The Next Time - Cliff Richard 20 23 19 20 19 3510
    27 21 Cupboard Love - John Leyton 21 18 22 22 23 3340
    23 22 Hi-Lili Hi-Lo - Richard Chamberlain 22 24 20 21 20 3180
    NEW 23 From A Jack To A King - Ned Miller 23 21 27 24 21 2250
    20 24 Like I Do - Maureen Evans 24 27 23 26 24 2060
    19 25 Globetrotter - The Tornados 25 29 21 22 1970
    NEW 26 Rhythm Of The Rain - The Cascades 26 22 25 30 1230
    22 27 A Taste Of Honey - Mr. Acker Bilk 28= 25 30 28 1040
    NEW 28 Say Wonderful Things - Ronnie Carroll 27 25 23 1000
    24 29 My Little Girl - The Crickets 26 29 850
    30 30 Boss Guitar - Duane Eddy 28= 27 29 27 820
    The Next Time - Cliff Richard 26
    21 Don't You Think It's Time - Mike Berry 30= 28 26 600
    25 Big Girls Don't Cry - The Four Seasons 30 29 210
    B Pied Piper - Steve Race 30= 27 200
    X My Kind Of Girl - Frank Sinatra 28 150
    B Let's Turkey Trot / Old Smokey Locomotion - Little Eva 30 100
    26 Dance On - The Shadows
    29 Some Kinda Fun - Chris Montez

    Leave a comment:


  • RokinRobinOfLocksley
    replied
    Come Together was #1 on its own separately in Cash Box for 3 weeks, Something peaking at #2. In Record World, like I said above, Something/Come Together was #1 for 2 weeks, then it flipped to Come Together/Something for 3 more weeks at #1. So math-wise Come Together is legit.

    If I had my druthers, I'd drop The Ballad of John and Yoko, as I flat out do not like it, and replace it with Strawberry Fields Forever and Love Me Do, ha...

    Leave a comment:


  • MrTibbs
    replied
    I like your cold hearted maths Robin lol, but, I would propose keeping Love Me Do, keeping Please Please Me, but dropping Come Together. It was never going to be a #1 until Billboard combined it with Something.

    Leave a comment:


  • RokinRobinOfLocksley
    replied
    So which of the 32 Beatles UK and US #1 records should have been included in the 27 tracks of the '1' CD? Which 27 were the biggest #1's? Adding up the total weeks at #1 on all 7 of the UK / US charts, the following 5 records would have been left off:

    --Twist and Shout, only 2 total weeks at #1, across 2 charts
    --Nowhere Man, only 2 total weeks at #1, across 1 chart
    --Love Me Do, 3 total weeks at #1, across 3 charts
    --Strawberry Fields Forever, 3 total weeks at #1, across 1 chart
    --For You Blue, 4 total weeks at #1, across 2 charts

    Lady Madonna also at 4 total weeks at #1, across 2 charts, would survive the chopping block because of a hierarchy tie breaker on the other charts, going 2-2-4-5 versus For You Blue 71-x-x-x.

    Thus the only change to the '1' CD would be to replace Love Me Do with Please Please Me. That's the cold hearted math...

    Leave a comment:


  • MrTibbs
    replied
    If I was pressed without a doubt I would have gone with the MM chart without question if just one had to be selected. 1 It used the biggest sample, that alone placed it above all others. 2 From July 1960 the MM was totally into having the best chart service. 3 It was the only music paper to include Northern Ireland in its sample. 4 it included EP's but excluded LP'S, split sides, and advance orders. No other chart had the same credentials.

    Leave a comment:


  • RokinRobinOfLocksley
    replied
    There is something to be said for a hybrid chart. What Guinness / the OCC could have done was go with MM when it was a Top 50, then when it dropped to a Top 30 use MM for the upper 30, then add below that any other records from the other charts, going by which chart sampled the most record shops, which would be in order NME, then Disc, then RR. You have the best of both worlds, a more accurate chart at the top, and 50 records in total. Which totally beats a RR Top 50 no matter how you slice it. It's the middle ground between going with just 1 chart and doing an average chart, in terms of both accuracy and required work. (Of course, I wouldn't stop at a Top 50, I'd add in all records from every chart, including the bubblers.)

    Leave a comment:


  • kingofskiffle
    replied
    For me, either MM or NME fo the 1960’s would have been good. I don’t like the idea of a hybrid - Top 10 from this and 11-40 from this as it seems confusing to understand. Remember, the charts need to be understood by all so it’s easier to say “Compiled by xxx”.

    Leave a comment:


  • brian05
    replied
    The OCC should have used the Melody Maker charts. Then Penny Lane/Strawberry Fields Forever would have been no. 1 for 3 weeks.

    Leave a comment:

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