The Ultimate Averaged Chart - The BBC Chart Re-Imagined

[Graham76man]

Ironic since if it wasn't for the Beatles, Gerry wouldn't have been signed.

[Splodj]

Apparently Gerry copied the Beatles arrangement for How Do You Do It rather than that on the acetate demo, so they made a contribution. But Gerry's version is better, mainly because he sounds like he does actually want to sing it!

[brian05]

26 Let's Turkey Trot / Old Smokey Locomotion - Little Eva

How come this is a double A-side?
Did the flip side make an appearance in any top 50 chart?

[MrTibbs]

Yeah if it wasn't for The Beatles it would have been Gerry's year Brian but he was relegated to their shadow.

[brian05]

My favourite new entry - Gerry and the Pacemakers with How do you do it?
A future no. 1? We shall see.

[MrTibbs]

Cliff finally captures the #1 position this week but as we all know The Beatles have only commenced their chart campaign.

Another two cracking new entries this week that I still love to this day, Buddy Holly's Brown Eyed Handsome Man, and Roy Orbison's In Dreams. As Cathy McGowan used to say on Ready Steady Go, ' I Think It's Smashing'

[MrTibbs]

Greetings Pop Pickers !

Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending March 16th 1963

The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending March 16th 1963								NME	MM	DISC	RR	Total
Last	This		The Sound Survey				Stores	100	150	50	30	Points
Week	Week		The Top 30 Singles Chart				BBC			TOP	30	Scored
2	1	Summer Holiday / Dancing Shoes - Cliff Richard					1	1	1	1	1	9900
1	2	Please Please Me - The Beatles					2	2	2	2	2	9570
5	3	That's What Love Will Do - Joe Brown					4	5	3	5	3	8940
6	4	Like I've Never Been Gone - Billy Fury					3	3	5	3	4	8910
3	5	The Night Has A Thousand Eyes - Bobby Vee					5	6	4	4	5	8680
19	6	Foot Tapper - The Shadows					6	4	6	6	9	8360
4	7	The Wayward Wind - Frank Ifield					7	7	7	7	7	7920
9	8	Island Of Dreams - The Springfields					8	9	8	11	6	7400
11	9	Hey Paula - Paul and Paula					9	11	9	9	8	7090
10	10	Tell Him - Billie Davis					10	13	10	8	10	6730
14	11	One Broken Heart For Sale - Elvis Presley					11	8	13	10	12	6620
7	12	Loop-De-Loop - Frankie Vaughan					13	12	11	13	13	6340
15	13	Charmaine - The Bachelors					12	10	15	12	11	6050
8	14	Diamonds - Jet Harris and Tony Meehan					14	16	12	16	14	5610
12	15	Hava Nagila - The Spotnicks					15	18	14	15	23	4890
13	16	Walk Right In - The Rooftop Singers					17	21	16	21	15	4230
23	17	From A Jack To A King - Ned Miller					16	17	22	14	16	4050
26	18	Rhythm Of The Rain - The Cascades					18	15	23	17	17	3920
16	19	Little Town Flirt - Del Shannon					20	23	17	20	18	3840
28	20	Say Wonderful Things - Ronnie Carroll					19	14	24	18	21	3700
21	21	Cupboard Love - John Leyton					21	20	20	19	22	3620
18	22	Sukiyaki - Kenny Ball					22	22	18	25	20	3480
17	23	All Alone Am I - Brenda Lee					23	25	19	23	19	3160
22	24	Hi-Lili Hi-Lo - Richard Chamberlain					24	24	21	22	24	2860
20	25	Bachelor Boy / The Next Time - Cliff Richard					25	26	25	26	25	1830
NEW	26	Let's Turkey Trot / Old Smokey Locomotion - Little Eva					26	28	26	27	26	1400
NEW	27	Brown Eyed Handsome Man - Buddy Holly					27	19		29		1300
NEW	28	Pied Piper - Steve Race					28		27	28	29	810
24	29	Like I Do - Maureen Evans					30=		28		27	570
NEW	30	In Dreams - Roy Orbison					29	27		30	28	540
25		Globetrotter - The Tornados						30	29			400
B		How Do You Do It - Gerry and The Pacemakers					30=			24		350
X		My Kind Of Girl - Frank Sinatra						29				200
27		A Taste Of Honey - Mr. Acker Bilk							30			150
30		Boss Guitar - Duane Eddy									30	30
29		My Little Girl - The Crickets

[Splodj]

oops, that escaped my notice

[RokinRobinOfLocksley]

It is one of those instances where what happened (Cliff replaced Beatles) is clearer than when it happened. As POTP was broadcast over a week after the survey period, their joint Beatles/Cliff number one was probably quite appropriate.

What I think is significant is that The Wayward Wind never achieved number one in the BBC chart either, even in a joint position. The only non-RR chart to have it at number one was the NME in one of their many joint-tops. RRs 3-week Ifield reign is an oddity in itself, apart from it blotting out the Beatles.

FYI, Disc had The Wayward Wind at #1 on Feb 16...

[Splodj]

It is one of those instances where what happened (Cliff replaced Beatles) is clearer than when it happened. As POTP was broadcast over a week after the survey period, their joint Beatles/Cliff number one was probably quite appropriate.

What I think is significant is that The Wayward Wind never achieved number one in the BBC chart either, even in a joint position. The only non-RR chart to have it at number one was the NME in one of their many joint-tops. RRs 3-week Ifield reign is an oddity in itself, apart from it blotting out the Beatles.

[brian05]

The BBC had a joint no. 1 so that is fine by me. But still 3 weeks at no. 1 for The Beatles.

[MrTibbs]

As much as I agree with The Beatles being no.1, iI wonder whether it should really be Cliff. Beatles win out on points, but Cliff wins out on number of no.1s (2 vs 1), best top 3 (112 vs 122), though they are equal on sum (8).

What has made a difference here is #1 is a three way split brain. The 3 point rule only kicks in when a record is #1 on all other charts but loses out on points, otherwise it's a straight points win.

[Graham76man]

Yip ! All the evidence proves this should always have been the official #1 for these 3 weeks.

But on sales only - not "points" they were only two weeks, they lost out to Cliff Richard that very week. Even the NME and Disc charts agreed on that. How Melody Maker got Cliff at four is beyond me

[braindeadpj]

As much as I agree with The Beatles being no.1, iI wonder whether it should really be Cliff. Beatles win out on points, but Cliff wins out on number of no.1s (2 vs 1), best top 3 (112 vs 122), though they are equal on sum (8).

[MrTibbs]

And 3 weeks at no. 1 in the BBC combined chart - yet history (well the OCC using RR chart) says they never even reached no. 1.
A complete travesty!

Yip ! All the evidence proves this should always have been the official #1 for these 3 weeks.

[brian05]

And 3 weeks at no. 1 in the BBC combined chart - yet history (well the OCC using RR chart) says they never even reached no. 1.
A complete travesty!

[MrTibbs]

The Beatles hold for a 3rd straight week at #1 on The Ultimate Chart.

Because of ties the BBC chart has 5 records in the top three. Crazy !

[MrTibbs]

Greetings Pop Pickers !

Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending March 9th 1963

The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending March 9th 1963								NME	MM	DISC	RR	Total
Last	This		The Sound Survey				Stores	100	150	50	30	Points
Week	Week		The Top 30 Singles Chart				BBC			TOP	30	Scored
1	1	Please Please Me - The Beatles					1=	2	1	2	3	9690
6	2	Summer Holiday / Dancing Shoes - Cliff Richard					1=	1	4	1	2	9420
3	3	The Night Has A Thousand Eyes - Bobby Vee					3=	4	3	3	4	9110
2	4	The Wayward Wind - Frank Ifield					3=	6	2	5	1	9050
7	5	That's What Love Will Do - Joe Brown					5	3	5	4	5	8830
12	6	Like I've Never Been Gone - Billy Fury					6	5	8	6	6	8050
4	7	Loop-De-Loop - Frankie Vaughan					7	7	7	7	8	7890
5	8	Diamonds - Jet Harris and Tony Meehan					8	10	6	9	7	7670
8	9	Island Of Dreams - The Springfields					9	9	9	10	9	7210
16	10	Tell Him - Billie Davis					10	12	12	8	14	6410
15	11	Hey Paula - Paul and Paula					11	14	11	13	11	6200
14	12	Hava Nagila - The Spotnicks					12	16	10	11	16	6100
11	13	Walk Right In - The Rooftop Singers					13=	15	14	17	10	5480
28	14	One Broken Heart For Sale - Elvis Presley					15	8	18	15	18	5440
17	15	Charmaine - The Bachelors					13=	13	17	14	12	5320
9	16	Little Town Flirt - Del Shannon					16	19	13	16	13	5190
13	17	All Alone Am I - Brenda Lee					17	17	16	19	15	4730
10	18	Sukiyaki - Kenny Ball					18	20	15	18	17	4570
NEW	19	Foot Tapper - The Shadows					19	11	24	12	25	4180
18	20	Bachelor Boy / The Next Time - Cliff Richard					20	23	19	20	19	3510
27	21	Cupboard Love - John Leyton					21	18	22	22	23	3340
23	22	Hi-Lili Hi-Lo - Richard Chamberlain					22	24	20	21	20	3180
NEW	23	From A Jack To A King - Ned Miller					23	21	27	24	21	2250
20	24	Like I Do - Maureen Evans					24	27	23	26	24	2060
19	25	Globetrotter - The Tornados					25	29	21		22	1970
NEW	26	Rhythm Of The Rain - The Cascades					26	22		25	30	1230
22	27	A Taste Of Honey - Mr. Acker Bilk					28=		25	30	28	1040
NEW	28	Say Wonderful Things - Ronnie Carroll					27	25		23		1000
24	29	My Little Girl - The Crickets							26	29		850
30	30	Boss Guitar - Duane Eddy					28=	27	29		27	820
		The Next Time - Cliff Richard						26
21		Don't You Think It's Time - Mike Berry					30=		28		26	600
25		Big Girls Don't Cry - The Four Seasons							30		29	210
B		Pied Piper - Steve Race					30=			27		200
X		My Kind Of Girl - Frank Sinatra								28		150
B		Let's Turkey Trot / Old Smokey Locomotion - Little Eva						30				100
26		Dance On - The Shadows
29		Some Kinda Fun - Chris Montez

[RokinRobinOfLocksley]

Come Together was #1 on its own separately in Cash Box for 3 weeks, Something peaking at #2. In Record World, like I said above, Something/Come Together was #1 for 2 weeks, then it flipped to Come Together/Something for 3 more weeks at #1. So math-wise Come Together is legit.

If I had my druthers, I'd drop The Ballad of John and Yoko, as I flat out do not like it, and replace it with Strawberry Fields Forever and Love Me Do, ha...

[MrTibbs]

I like your cold hearted maths Robin lol, but, I would propose keeping Love Me Do, keeping Please Please Me, but dropping Come Together. It was never going to be a #1 until Billboard combined it with Something.

[RokinRobinOfLocksley]

So which of the 32 Beatles UK and US #1 records should have been included in the 27 tracks of the '1' CD? Which 27 were the biggest #1's? Adding up the total weeks at #1 on all 7 of the UK / US charts, the following 5 records would have been left off:

--Twist and Shout, only 2 total weeks at #1, across 2 charts
--Nowhere Man, only 2 total weeks at #1, across 1 chart
--Love Me Do, 3 total weeks at #1, across 3 charts
--Strawberry Fields Forever, 3 total weeks at #1, across 1 chart
--For You Blue, 4 total weeks at #1, across 2 charts

Lady Madonna also at 4 total weeks at #1, across 2 charts, would survive the chopping block because of a hierarchy tie breaker on the other charts, going 2-2-4-5 versus For You Blue 71-x-x-x.

Thus the only change to the '1' CD would be to replace Love Me Do with Please Please Me. That's the cold hearted math...

[MrTibbs]

If I was pressed without a doubt I would have gone with the MM chart without question if just one had to be selected. 1 It used the biggest sample, that alone placed it above all others. 2 From July 1960 the MM was totally into having the best chart service. 3 It was the only music paper to include Northern Ireland in its sample. 4 it included EP's but excluded LP'S, split sides, and advance orders. No other chart had the same credentials.

[RokinRobinOfLocksley]

There is something to be said for a hybrid chart. What Guinness / the OCC could have done was go with MM when it was a Top 50, then when it dropped to a Top 30 use MM for the upper 30, then add below that any other records from the other charts, going by which chart sampled the most record shops, which would be in order NME, then Disc, then RR. You have the best of both worlds, a more accurate chart at the top, and 50 records in total. Which totally beats a RR Top 50 no matter how you slice it. It's the middle ground between going with just 1 chart and doing an average chart, in terms of both accuracy and required work. (Of course, I wouldn't stop at a Top 50, I'd add in all records from every chart, including the bubblers.)

[kingofskiffle]

For me, either MM or NME fo the 1960’s would have been good. I don’t like the idea of a hybrid - Top 10 from this and 11-40 from this as it seems confusing to understand. Remember, the charts need to be understood by all so it’s easier to say “Compiled by xxx”.

[brian05]

The OCC should have used the Melody Maker charts. Then Penny Lane/Strawberry Fields Forever would have been no. 1 for 3 weeks.