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The Ultimate Averaged Chart - The BBC Chart Re-Imagined

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  • #76
    Hello
    I would also like to pass my congrats to MrTibbs for his Record Mirror posts – the dealer charts - like Tutankhamun!
    In doing the BBC charts, this is an interesting endeavour.

    I certainly do not want to 'rock the boat' etc., but I have some observations;

    As a weekly chart-watcher since 1962, I was a keen follower of the BBC Master chart, to the extent I took it upon myself eventually to re-calculate the occasional wayward BBC chart compilations. I have all the BBC charts (and most of the calculations) from July 1963 to February 1969. Before July 1963 Messrs Jacobs and Freeman were often coy about Nos. 11-20, hence not complete until then. I also have the calculations of all subsequent weeks from February 1969 until to October 1996.

    I am pleased to say your 1/2/64 chart is largely the same.


    I think a compiler would have to bear several points in mind:
    1. Start date of 28/9/57 [BBC], or 1955?
    2. End date of 8/2/69 [BBC], or when there ceased to be any bona fide industry journal rivals to MW [1996]? I am aware of the points-of-view.
    3. You will have to decide how to treat joint positions: mathematically logical, yet irrational [e.g. 10/3/63 or 28/3/65, where the BBC chart is joint-crazy];
    4. You will have to decide how to treat double-sided hits, as the NME split the sales of A-side and B-side on up to 70 singles between 1952 and 1969, as did MM for a while;
    5. You will have to decide how to treat EPs, as RR excluded them from the SP chart because they had their own EP chart;
    6. You will have to decide how to treat LPs, as the NME included them in their SP chart from time to time, despite having their own LP chart;
    7. You will have to decide how to treat different editions of the same recording on the rare moments when 2 labels had hits with exactly the same recording, and RR separated the sales.
    8. You may find that 30 points for No. 1, 29 points for 2, etc. works better than 1 point for No.1 etc when compensatory calculations are required.

    Half the fun is the calculation. Good luck!

    Comment


    • #77
      Membranemusic,

      In your re-calculations did you find that the BBC were adopting a tiebreaker policy about this time.

      In the recent charts I have found 4 cases where there were equal scores but the BBC have not given equal positions.

      On 4-Apr: Bachelors/Stones (4/5) and Applejacks/DC5 (9/10). On 11-Apr: Reeves/Stones (6/7). On 18th Apr Searchers/SBJ (12/13).

      In each case the record going down the chart has been given the lower position.

      Is this a deliberate new policy? There hasn't been a tie in the Top 20 since 7th March.

      There have been ties in the 21-30 section but this was only for internal use. Those 4 tieing at 26 on 4-Apr all have different scores - I think an indication that they didn't bother much about accuracy at the bottom end.

      Comment


      • #78
        Hey guys, I always enjoy your feedback. Thanks membranemusic for your very positive comments on my other thread. I really enjoyed working on that musical tapestry to its completion and am now equally engrossed in this fascinating and addictive thread. I read yours and Splodj's comments above. I outlined my methodology away back at the start of this thread and you will see that I address your compiler issues there membranemusic as these are all valid considerations.

        As you mention and Splodj the BBC calculations were not the most accurate hence why I went back to the drawing board on calculation using just Top 30 positions and also added the individual music papers' store returns to further enhance robustness .

        I am really pleased with the outcome. As you can see it is not littered with ties. In the 19 weeks I have thus so far compiled with my method there have only been 2 ties, both at the very bottom end of the chart which I separated by using MM positions as it has the largest store return.

        The BBC's own policy on ties varied through the years so was not consistent.

        Continue to enjoy the chart guys as the Ultimate Averaged Chart is probably the most accurate we will ever get to a true chart of the time. I use an excell spreadsheet to assist with this to ensure accuracy with calculations. I owe a debt to my buddy RokinRobin for his assistance in developing this spreadsheet for me to work with.
        The Ultimate Averaged Chart. The Definitive Chart Reflecting The Fifties and Sixties.

        Comment


        • #79
          Originally posted by MrTibbs View Post
          Guys, do you find it helpful to see all the music paper charts and the BBC chart side by side to make comparisons ?
          Brian,I love the layout!! It's really helpful to see all the music paper's charts positions side by side!! Well done!! :-)

          Comment


          • #80
            According to my calculations, on BBC scoring if a record is top in 3 of the charts it will score best unless it is at least as low as number 5 in the 4th chart. There are 4 more occasions in the next 12 months when RR had a record below 5 which the others had at number 1.

            Comment


            • #81
              Greetings Pop Pickers ! Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending 25th April 1964. Enjoy.
              The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending April 25th 1964 BBC NME MM Disc RR
              Last This Chart Chart Chart Chart Chart
              Week Week Title and Artist Total Chart Positions 30
              1 1 A World Without Love - Peter and Gordon 1 1 1 1 1
              3 2 I Believe - The Bachelors 2 2 2 2 3
              2 3 Can't Buy Me Love - The Beatles 3 3 3 3 2
              12 4 Don't Throw Your Love Away - The Searchers 4 3 4 4 4
              8 5 My Boy Lollipop - Millie 5 5 5 5 5
              6 6 I Love You Because - Jim Reeves 6 6 6 6 6
              5 7 Tell Me When - The Applejacks 7 7 8 7 7
              4 8 Little Children - Billy J Kramer and The Dakotas 8 9 7 9 9
              11 9 Move Over Darling - Doris Day 9 8 9 8 11
              7 10 Not Fade Away - The Rolling Stones 10 11 11 10 8
              13 11 Everything's Alright - The Mojos 11 13 10 11 12
              15 12 Mocking Bird Hill - The Migil Five 12 10 13 12 13
              24 13 Don't Let The Sun Catch You Crying - Gerry and Pacemakers 14 11 14 13 17
              9 14 Just One Look - The Hollies 13 16 12 15 10
              23 15 Hubble Bubble Toil And Trouble - Manfred Mann 15 15 16 14 16
              14 16 Good Golly Miss Molly - The Swinging Blue Jeans 16 17 15 18 14
              27 17 Walk On By - Dionne Warwick 19 14 19 16 25
              21 18 Juliet - The Four Pennies 17 19 18 17 18
              10 19 That Girl Belongs To Yesterday - Gene Pitney 18 21 17 19 15
              NEW 20 Don't Turn Around - The Merseybeats 20 18 21 20 24
              17 21 Theme For Young Lovers - The Shadows 21 22 20 21 20
              18 22 Viva Las Vegas - Elvis Presley 23 24 22 30 22
              16 23 Bits And Pieces - The Dave Clark Five 23 27 25 23 23
              NEW 24 Baby Let Me Take You Home - The Animals 26= 19 27 29 29
              20 25 Diane - The Bachelors 26= 29 23 28 21
              19 26 Anyone Who Had A Heart - Cilla Black 25 24 25 19
              RE 27 Hi-Heel Sneakers - Tommy Tucker 28 25 28 24 28
              28 28 Think - Brenda Lee 29 26 29 27 26
              22 29 New Orleans - Bern Elliot and The Fenmen 30 26 27
              NEW 30 A Little Loving - The Fourmost 28 30
              The Rolling Stones (LP) - The Rolling Stones 22 23 22
              If I Loved You - Richard Anthony 26
              Angry At The Big Oak Tree - Frank Ifield 29
              Let Me Go Lover - Kathy Kirby 30
              Last edited by MrTibbs; Wed June 24, 2020, 14:43.
              The Ultimate Averaged Chart. The Definitive Chart Reflecting The Fifties and Sixties.

              Comment


              • #82
                Greetings Pop Pickers ! Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending 2nd May 1964.

                The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending May 2nd 1964 BBC NME MM Disc RR
                Last This Chart Chart Chart Chart Chart
                Week Week Title and Artist Total Chart Positions 30
                4 1 Don't Throw Your Love Away - The Searchers 1 2 1 1 2
                1 2 A World Without Love - Peter and Gordon 2 1 2 3 1
                2 3 I Believe - The Bachelors 3 3 3 2 3
                5 4 My Boy Lollipop - Millie 4 4 4 4 5
                3 5 Can't Buy Me Love - The Beatles 5 5 5 5 4
                6 6 I Love You Because - Jim Reeves 6 6 6 6 6
                13 7 Don't Let The Sun Catch You Crying - Gerry and Pacemakers 7 7 8 9 7
                9 8 Move Over Darling - Doris Day 8 8 9 8 8
                18 9 Juliet - The Four Pennies 9 9 10 7 12
                11 10 Everything's Alright - The Mojos 10 13 7 10 9
                12 11 Mocking Bird Hill - The Migil Five 11 12 11 11 10
                15 12 Hubble Bubble Toil And Trouble - Manfred Mann 12 11 14 13 11
                17 13 Walk On By - Dionne Warwick 13 10 13 15 15
                7 14 Tell Me When - The Applejacks 14 18 12 12 14
                10 15 Not Fade Away - The Rolling Stones 15 19 16 16 13
                8 16 Little Children - Billy J Kramer and The Dakotas 16 20 15 14 16
                20 17 Don't Turn Around - The Merseybeats 17= 14 18 19 17
                30 18 A Little Loving - The Fourmost 17= 17 19 18 19
                NEW 19 It's Over - Roy Orbison 20 15 21 17
                14 20 Just One Look - The Hollies 19 24 17 21 18
                24 21 Baby Let Me Take You Home - The Animals 21 15 23 26 21
                16 22 Good Golly Miss Molly - The Swinging Blue Jeans 23 25 20 23 20
                NEW 23 Constantly - Cliff Richard 24 22 22 22 30
                27 24 Hi-Heel Sneakers - Tommy Tucker 25 27 25 24 23
                NEW 25 If I Loved You - Richard Anthony 26 26 26 25 28
                NEW 26 Angry At The Big Oak Tree - Frank Ifield 27 27 27 27 25
                19 27 That Girl Belongs To Yesterday - Gene Pitney 28 24 30 22
                NEW 28 Non Ho L'Eta Per Amarti - Gigliola Cinquetti 29 21 30
                25 29 Diane - The Bachelors 30 29 29 26
                NEW 30 The Spartans - Sounds Incorporated 28
                The Rolling Stones (LP) - The Rolling Stones 22 23 20
                Theme For Young Lovers - The Shadows 24
                Think - Brenda Lee 29 27
                I Will - Billy Fury 30 28
                Baby It's You - Dave Berry 30
                Viva Las Vegas - Elvis Presley 29
                The Ultimate Averaged Chart. The Definitive Chart Reflecting The Fifties and Sixties.

                Comment


                • #83
                  Hello MrTibbs
                  Yes, apologies, I drafted my response on methodology but had to wait for posting. So I appreciate that you have sales criteria in addition to points.
                  It’s great to see No. 21-30, which were not broadcast at that time.

                  I am not sure the BBC were bothered with a tiebreaker most of the time – just mild embarrassment at a joint position. There were plenty of joint positions after 1964 dates you mention.

                  Regarding double –sided hits, mrtibbs, one method not used by the BBC is to allocate a small number of points to the lesser-selling side and add them to the NME A-side, but subject to an upper limit, as the average of the other 3 charts might under-compensate on some occasions. Just saying….. It gets especially tricky with “Next Time”/”Bachelor Boy” in 62/63.

                  Keep on please.

                  Comment


                  • #84
                    Thanks for your thoughts membranemusic. The problem with allocating points to both though means the record gets more than its fair share of points, eg, the example you give on January 5th 1963. Maximum points a record can achieve is 30, so if you allocate 28 points to The Next Time and 25 to Bachelor Boy you get 53 points so this obviously doesn't work, and if you simply add extra points to compensate this is subjective and open to interpretation and therefore inconsistency . I believe taking an average of all the other charts which combined the titles does give an acceptable result as the average will fall within the parameters of the other charts and therefore be reliable.

                    I am enjoying your input and comments though.
                    The Ultimate Averaged Chart. The Definitive Chart Reflecting The Fifties and Sixties.

                    Comment


                    • #85
                      Agree about the both sides issue, which we discussed on another thread. Effectively it is applying the EP solution.

                      But when you do the 50s you are probably going to need a changeover date to that system, which I have suggested could be March 1958.

                      Comment


                      • #86
                        Thanks Splodj, that is most helpful.
                        The Ultimate Averaged Chart. The Definitive Chart Reflecting The Fifties and Sixties.

                        Comment


                        • #87
                          Greetings Pop Pickers ! Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending 9th May 1964

                          The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending May 9th 1964 BBC NME MM Disc RR
                          Last This Chart Chart Chart Chart Chart
                          Week Week Title and Artist Total Chart Positions 30
                          1 1 Don't Throw Your Love Away - The Searchers 1 1 1 1 1
                          4 2 My Boy Lollipop - Millie 2 2 3 2 3
                          2 3 A World Without Love - Peter and Gordon 4 4 2 4 4
                          3 4 I Believe - The Bachelors 3 3 4 3 2
                          9 5 Juliet - The Four Pennies 5 5 5 5 5
                          7 6 Don't Let The Sun Catch You Crying - Gerry and Pacemakers 6 6 6 8 6
                          5 7 Can't Buy Me Love - The Beatles 7 7 9 7 7
                          6 8 I Love You Because - Jim Reeves 8 8 7 9 10
                          8 9 Move Over Darling - Doris Day 9 10 8 13 8
                          18 10 A Little Loving - The Fourmost 10= 12 10 10 11
                          19 11 It's Over - Roy Orbison 10= 11 12 6 14
                          13 12 Walk On By - Dionne Warwick 12 9 14 12 9
                          23 13 Constantly - Cliff Richard 13 15 13 11 16
                          11 14 Mocking Bird Hill - The Migil Five 14 13 15 16 12
                          10 15 Everything's Alright - The Mojos 15 17 11 15 17
                          12 16 Hubble Bubble Toil And Trouble - Manfred Mann 17 14 16 17 15
                          17 17 Don't Turn Around - The Merseybeats 16 16 18 14 13
                          14 18 Tell Me When - The Applejacks 18 24 17 20 19
                          21 19 Baby Let Me Take You Home - The Animals 21 18 19 27 23
                          15 20 Not Fade Away - The Rolling Stones 22 21 20 26 21
                          25 21 If I Loved You - Richard Anthony 19= 25 22 21 18
                          NEW 22 I Will - Billy Fury 19= 22 25 19 20
                          28 23 Non Ho L'Eta Per Amarti - Gigliola Cinquetti 24= 23 21 22 28
                          NEW 24 You're My World - Cilla Black 23 18 27 18 30
                          16 25 Little Children - Billy J Kramer and The Dakotas 24= 26 23 23 22
                          26 26 Angry At The Big Oak Tree - Frank Ifield 27 29 24 28 25
                          NEW 27 The Rise And Fall Of Flingel Bunt - The Shadows 28 20 24
                          30 28 The Spartans - Sounds Incorporated 26
                          24 29 Hi-Heel Sneakers - Tommy Tucker 29 28 26
                          20 30 Just One Look - The Hollies 29 29
                          The Rolling Stones (LP) - The Rolling Stones 26 27 25
                          You're The One - Kathy Kirby 28
                          Baby It's You - Dave Berry 30 24
                          Good Golly Miss Molly - The Swinging Blue Jeans 30 27
                          Can't Buy Me Love - Ella Fitzgerald 30 30
                          No Particular Place To Go - Chuck Berry 29
                          The Ultimate Averaged Chart. The Definitive Chart Reflecting The Fifties and Sixties.

                          Comment


                          • #88
                            Greetings Pop Pickers ! Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending 16th May 1964

                            The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending May 16th 1964 BBC NME MM Disc RR
                            Last This Chart Chart Chart Chart Chart
                            Week Week Title and Artist Total Chart Positions 30
                            5 1 Juliet - The Four Pennies 1 1 1 1 2
                            2 2 My Boy Lollipop - Millie 2 2 2 2 3
                            1 3 Don't Throw Your Love Away - The Searchers 3 3 3 3 1
                            4 4 I Believe - The Bachelors 4 4 5 5 4
                            11 5 It's Over - Roy Orbison 5 6 6 4 6
                            10 6 A Little Loving - The Fourmost 6 7 4 6 10
                            24 7 You're My World - Cilla Black 7 5 8 7 12
                            3 8 A World Without Love - Peter and Gordon 8 11 7 9 5
                            13 9 Constantly - Cliff Richard 9 9 9 8 7
                            6 10 Don't Let The Sun Catch You Crying - Gerry and Pacemakers 10 8 10 10 9
                            12 11 Walk On By - Dionne Warwick 11 9 11 12 11
                            8 12 I Love You Because - Jim Reeves 12 12 12 11 8
                            7 13 Can't Buy Me Love - The Beatles 13 13 14 13 13
                            9 14 Move Over Darling - Doris Day 15 17 13 15 15
                            17 15 Don't Turn Around - The Merseybeats 14 15 15 14 16
                            27 16 The Rise And Fall Of Flingel Bunt - The Shadows 18 14 17 16 21
                            14 17 Mocking Bird Hill - The Migil Five 16 16 18 18 14
                            22 18 I Will - Billy Fury 17 19 16 17 17
                            15 19 Everything's Alright - The Mojos 19 22 19 20 18
                            16 20 Hubble Bubble Toil And Trouble - Manfred Mann 20 21 20 21 19
                            23 21 Non Ho L'Eta Per Amarti - Gigliola Cinquetti 21 18 21 22 24
                            NEW 22 No Particular Place To Go - Chuck Berry 22 19 26 19 26
                            19 23 Baby Let Me Take You Home - The Animals 23 23 22 25 23
                            21 24 If I Loved You - Richard Anthony 24 23 24 20
                            NEW 25 You're The One - Kathy Kirby 26= 24 24 27 30
                            26 26 Angry At The Big Oak Tree - Frank Ifield 26= 26 25 29 25
                            18 27 Tell Me When - The Applejacks 25 27 27 26 22
                            NEW 28 Someone Someone - Brian Poole and The Tremeloes 29= 25 30
                            25 29 Little Children - Billy J Kramer and The Dakotas 29= 28 27
                            20 30 Not Fade Away - The Rolling Stones 28 28
                            The Rolling Stones (LP) - The Rolling Stones 28 23
                            The Spartans - Sounds Incorporated 29
                            Suspicion - Terry Stafford 29
                            I Love You Baby - Freddie and The Dreamers 28
                            Baby It's You - Dave Berry 30 29
                            Shout - Lulu and The Luvvers 30
                            The Ultimate Averaged Chart. The Definitive Chart Reflecting The Fifties and Sixties.

                            Comment


                            • #89
                              Hello all contributors. The revised charts are truly wonderful to read.
                              On a general point, I have often wondered for some time why many contributors on uk,mix tend to ignore record labels. Granted a) a lot of extra work, b) no-one cares any more in today's digital world, it was nonetheless the case that in the 60-80s the record label mattered almost as much as the artist, e.g. whether on London or Parlophone. I used to run logs and tallies on each label from the 60s to the 80s, until the point when record companies started eating each other. Do tell your comments.

                              Comment


                              • #90
                                Greetings Pop Pickers ! Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending 23rd May 1964.

                                I'm pleased membranemusic that you and many others are enjoying the Ultimate Averaged charts, re-worked and accurately compiled.

                                The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending May 23rd 1964 BBC NME MM Disc RR
                                Last This Chart Chart Chart Chart Chart
                                Week Week Title and Artist Total Chart Positions 30
                                1 1 Juliet - The Four Pennies 1 1 1 1 1
                                7 2 You're My World - Cilla Black 2 2 2 2 4
                                5 3 It's Over - Roy Orbison 4 3 3 4 5
                                2 4 My Boy Lollipop - Millie 3 4 5 3 2
                                6 5 A Little Loving - The Fourmost 6 6 4 6 8
                                3 6 Don't Throw Your Love Away - The Searchers 5 7 6 7 3
                                9 7 Constantly - Cliff Richard 7 5 7 5 9
                                4 8 I Believe - The Bachelors 8 8 8 8 6
                                11 9 Walk On By - Dionne Warwick 9= 10 9 14 11
                                16 10 The Rise And Fall Of Flingel Bunt - The Shadows 12 11 10 11 13
                                12 11 I Love You Because - Jim Reeves 9= 13 12 9 10
                                10 12 Don't Let The Sun Catch You Crying - Gerry and Pacemakers 9= 12 13 12 7
                                8 13 A World Without Love - Peter and Gordon 13 21 11 10 12
                                18 14 I Will - Billy Fury 14 16 14 13 14
                                22 15 No Particular Place To Go - Chuck Berry 15 9 17 15 20
                                15 16 Don't Turn Around - The Merseybeats 16 19 15 16 16
                                21 17 Non Ho L'Eta Per Amarti - Gigliola Cinquetti 19 14 18 20 22
                                14 18 Move Over Darling - Doris Day 17 20 16 19 17
                                13 19 Can't Buy Me Love - The Beatles 18 22 19 17 15
                                17 20 Mocking Bird Hill - The Migil Five 20 18 21 25 18
                                NEW 21 I Love You Baby - Freddie and The Dreamers 21 17 22 21 25
                                25 22 You're The One - Kathy Kirby 23 25 20 24 28
                                28 23 Someone Someone - Brian Poole and The Tremeloes 22 23 26 18 26
                                NEW 24 My Guy - Mary Wells 24= 15 23
                                19 25 Everything's Alright - The Mojos 24= 27 23 26 24
                                24 26 If I Loved You - Richard Anthony 26 28 25 19
                                20 27 Hubble Bubble Toil And Trouble - Manfred Mann 27 24 29 21
                                NEW 28 Here I Go Again - The Hollies 28 24 30 22
                                26 29 Angry At The Big Oak Tree - Frank Ifield 30 26 28 30 27
                                23 30 Baby Let Me Take You Home - The Animals 29 27 28 23
                                Shout - Lulu and The Luvvers 29 27
                                Baby It's You - Dave Berry 29
                                Suspicion - Terry Stafford 30
                                Tell Me When - The Applejacks 29
                                The Spartans - Sounds Incorporated 30
                                The Ultimate Averaged Chart. The Definitive Chart Reflecting The Fifties and Sixties.

                                Comment


                                • #91
                                  With regard to record labels they have negative connotations with me because when a label was specified on the radio it was a sign of something bad ...

                                  1 - Those sponsored shows on Luxembourg which would play only a minute of each disc;

                                  2 - On the pirates it was a sign that they had paid for it to be played;

                                  3 - On the BBC it was a bore when they reviewed new releases (exempt from needle time) and had to specify the label and catalogue number. This continued up to September 1972.

                                  Comment


                                  • #92
                                    It is clearly apparent when you actually look at the music paper charts side by side just how weak the RR charts are by comparison to the others.In the chart above as just one example the RR positions in 8 out of the Top Ten positions are way out with the parameters of the other three.
                                    The Ultimate Averaged Chart. The Definitive Chart Reflecting The Fifties and Sixties.

                                    Comment


                                    • #93
                                      Wot NO Labels!
                                      I suppose with most people who used to follow charts, they would write down the charts from the Radio and the DJ rarely ever mentioned the record company. For most people it was about the music or artist, not the label they were on.
                                      I don't use them on the Real Charts. Mostly because I am not recording how much the label was making. But also that imported records could be selling more than the UK version, which would be on a different label! At one point the Official Chart would have the import selling at the lower end of the chart. Then when the UK version came out, that would enter say at number one and it had NOT climbed up from where the import was. In fact the import sales were no longer registered for the chart. Due to the format rules. Very silly if you ask me!!

                                      Some of the pirate stations did start to pay for the records they would play. It was one of the criticisms levelled at them by the Government, probably the record companies too. Ripping off the musicians. Though they greatly benefited from the fact that plays on the pirates sold records.
                                      Education for anyone aged 12 to 16 has made a mess of the world!

                                      Comment


                                      • #94
                                        Greetings Pop Pickers ! Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending 30th May 1964.

                                        The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending May 30th 1964 BBC NME MM Disc RR
                                        Last This Chart Chart Chart Chart Chart
                                        Week Week Title and Artist Total Chart Positions 30
                                        2 1 You're My World - Cilla Black 1 1 1 1 1
                                        1 2 Juliet - The Four Pennies 2 2 2 2 2
                                        3 3 It's Over - Roy Orbison 3 3 3 3 4
                                        7 4 Constantly - Cliff Richard 5 5 4 5 5
                                        4 5 My Boy Lollipop - Millie 4 4 7 4 3
                                        5 6 A Little Loving - The Fourmost 6 6 5 7 6
                                        10 7 The Rise And Fall Of Flingel Bunt - The Shadows 7 8 6 6 7
                                        15 8 No Particular Place To Go - Chuck Berry 8 7 9 8 10
                                        9 9 Walk On By - Dionne Warwick 10 11 8 11 11
                                        6 10 Don't Throw Your Love Away - The Searchers 9 10 11 10 8
                                        8 11 I Believe - The Bachelors 11 13 10 9 9
                                        11 12 I Love You Because - Jim Reeves 12 20 12 12 12
                                        23 13 Someone Someone - Brian Poole and The Tremeloes 13 14 16 14 13
                                        12 14 Don't let The Sun Catch You Crying - Gerry and Pacemakers 16 15 14 19 15
                                        28 15 Here I Go Again - The Hollies 15 12 17 15 18
                                        16 16 I Will - Billy Fury 14 21 13 13 14
                                        17 17 Non Ho L'Eta Per Amarti - Gigliola Cinquetti 17 16 15 16 20
                                        24 18 My Guy - Mary Wells 18 9 21 17 25
                                        21 19 I Love You Baby - Freddie and The Dreamers 19 17 18 18 21
                                        22 20 You're The One - Kathy Kirby 20 19 22 25 17
                                        16 21 Don't Turn Around - The Merseybeats 21 28 19 20 16
                                        NEW 22 Shout - Lulu and The Luvvers 22 18 24 23 24
                                        13 23 A World Without Love - Peter and Gordon 23 25 20 21 23
                                        19 24 Can't Buy Me Love - The Beatles 24 24 25 24 22
                                        18 25 Move Over Darling - Doris Day 26 23 26 19
                                        20 26 Mocking Bird Hill - The Migil Five 25 23 26 26
                                        NEW 27 Can't You See That She's Mine - The Dave Clark Five 27 22 30 22
                                        26 28 If I Loved You - Richard Anthony 28= 30 27 29 27
                                        NEW 29 Don't Let The Rain Come Down - Ronnie Hilton 28= 27 27 28
                                        NEW 30 I Wish You Would - The Yardbirds 30= 26
                                        Angry At The Big Oak Tree - Frank Ifield 28
                                        Suspicion - Terry Stafford 30= 29 28
                                        Everything's Alright - The Mojos 29 30
                                        Baby Let Me Take You Home - The Animals 29
                                        Stop Look And Listen - Wayne Fontana and The Mindbenders 30
                                        The Ultimate Averaged Chart. The Definitive Chart Reflecting The Fifties and Sixties.

                                        Comment


                                        • #95
                                          Greetings Pop Pickers ! Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending 6th June 1964.

                                          The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending June 6th 1964 BBC NME MM Disc RR
                                          Last This Chart Chart Chart Chart Chart
                                          Week Week Title and Artist Total Chart Positions 30
                                          1 1 You're My World - Cilla Black 1 1 1 1 1
                                          3 2 It's Over - Roy Orbison 2 2 3 2 2
                                          2 3 Juliet - The Four Pennies 3 3 2 3 3
                                          4 4 Constantly - Cliff Richard 4 5 4 4 4
                                          7 5 The Rise And Fall Of Flingel Bunt - The Shadows 5= 6 5 5 5
                                          8 6 No Particular Place To Go - Chuck Berry 5= 4 6 6 6
                                          15 7 Here I Go Again - The Hollies 7 8 7 7 11
                                          5 8 My Boy Lollipop - Millie 8 9 10 8 7
                                          6 9 A Little Loving - The Fourmost 9 11 8 10 9
                                          18 10 My Guy - Mary Wells 11 6 11 11 12
                                          13 11 Someone Someone - Brian Poole and The Tremeloes 10 10 12 9 8
                                          9 12 Walk On By - Dionne Warwick 12 13 9 15 10
                                          12 13 I Love You Because - Jim Reeves 16 18 13 12 13
                                          22 14 Shout - Lulu and The Luvvers 14 12 17 16 17
                                          17 15 Non Ho L'Eta Per Amarti - Gigliola Cinquetti 17 15 15 19 18
                                          16 16 I Will - Billy Fury 15 20 14 14 16
                                          11 17 I Believe - The Bachelors 13 17 16 18 14
                                          27 18 Can't You See That She's Mine - The Dave Clark Five 18 14 20 13 21
                                          10 19 Don't Throw Your Love Away - The Searchers 19 21 19 17 15
                                          19 20 I Love You Baby - Freddie and The Dreamers 20 22 18 20 20
                                          20 21 You're The One - Kathy Kirby 21 23 21 27 19
                                          29 22 Don't Let The Rain Come Down - Ronnie Hilton 22 24 22 23 23
                                          NEW 23 Hello Dolly - Louis Armstrong 23 16 27 22
                                          NEW 24 Ramona - The Bachelors 24 19 30 21 29
                                          14 25 Don't Let The Sun catch You Crying - Gerry and Pacemakers 25 29 23 25 24
                                          21 26 Don't Turn Around - The Merseybeats 26 24 28 22
                                          25 27 Move Over Darling - Doris Day 28= 25 26
                                          NEW 28 Nobody I Know - Peter and Gordon 27 25 24
                                          23 29 A World Without Love - Peter and Gordon 30= 26 27
                                          24 30 Can't Buy Me Love - The Beatles 28= 28 25
                                          Hello Dolly - Frankie Vaughan 26
                                          Ain't She Sweet - The Beatles 27 30
                                          You're No Good - The Swinging Blue Jeans 30= 29 26
                                          Near You - The Migil Five 27
                                          Mocking Bird Hill - The Migil Five 29 28
                                          Stop Look And Listen - Wayne Fontana and The Mindbenders 29
                                          If I Loved You - Richard Anthony 30
                                          The Ultimate Averaged Chart. The Definitive Chart Reflecting The Fifties and Sixties.

                                          Comment


                                          • #96
                                            Originally posted by MrTibbs View Post
                                            It is clearly apparent when you actually look at the music paper charts side by side just how weak the RR charts are by comparison to the others.In the chart above as just one example the RR positions in 8 out of the Top Ten positions are way out with the parameters of the other three.
                                            The BBC might have had difficulty doing a chart that favoured any particular compilers over others, but what they could have done to produce something similar to your charts is apply their odd-one-out rule throughout the 30. So if any one chart was 4 or more places out than the others it would be ignored. In principle this rule would be neutral between the charts, but in practice at this time would be a way of avoiding RR outlier positions.

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                                            • #97
                                              Hi Brian, I had BBC’s averaged charts on beforehand and didn’t expect your recount to be interesting at first. See I was wrong after going thru’ your system. The one weakness I’ve discovered is the problem caused by bigger differences saleswise at the top of the chart than lower down. However, that can’t be rectified without having the real salesfigures from then. Otherwise it seems you’re doing everything right. Just started enjoying your averages.

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                                              • #98
                                                Factoring in percentages of store returns to the music papers additional to inverse points does make a difference without disrupting the chart too much. It smoothes out minor differences and endless ties and gives a much more accurate results as you can see.
                                                The other factor in all of this is the fact that on occasions the BBC chart was compiled without the RR chart as it was often received too late for chart compilation. We just don't know how frequent that was. My chart obviously as compiled now includes them all.
                                                The Ultimate Averaged Chart. The Definitive Chart Reflecting The Fifties and Sixties.

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                                                • #99
                                                  Hi Guys,I'm busy today but will post the next 3 charts tomorrow. Brian
                                                  The Ultimate Averaged Chart. The Definitive Chart Reflecting The Fifties and Sixties.

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                                                  • Hello MrTibbs. Magnificent work.
                                                    A quandary is approaching you in time for 3 Dec 64 and beyond [until April 66]. Do you included Mersey Beat/Music Echo listings in your calculations?

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