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The Ultimate Averaged Chart - The BBC Chart Re-Imagined

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  • Greetings Pop Pickers !

    A masterpiece greets us on this week's chart, Joe Cocker's interpretation of the Beatles' With A Little Help.. Perfection Personified !

    There are again 10 differences this week in chart positions between the BBC Chart and The Ultimate Averaged Chart.

    Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending October 19th 1968.

    The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending October 19th 1968 NME MM RR Total
    Last This The Sound Survey Stores 200 250 85 Points
    Week Week The Top 30 Singles Chart BBC TOP 30 Scored
    1 1 Those Were The Days - Mary Hopkin 1 1 1 1 16050
    2 2 Jesamine - The Casuals 2 3 2 2 15315
    4 3 Little Arrows - Leapy Lee 3= 2 4 4 14845
    3 4 Hey Jude - The Beatles 3= 4 3 3 14780
    9 5 My Little Lady - The Tremeloes 5 5 5 6 13825
    5 6 Lady Willpower - Gary Puckett and The Union Gap 6 7 6 5 13260
    13 7 Les Bicyclettes De Belsize - Engelbert Humperdinck 7 8 7 7 12640
    8 8 The Red Balloon - The Dave Clark Five 8 6 9 8 12455
    12 9 A Day Without Love - The Love Affair 9 9 8 9 12020
    10 10 Classical Gas - Mason Williams 10 12 10 11 10750
    20 11 The Good The Bad And The Ugly - Hugo Montenegro 11 11 11 12 10615
    22 12 Listen To Me - The Hollies 12 10 15 13 9730
    6 13 Hold Me Tight - Johnny Nash 13 13 12 15 9710
    14 14 Ice In The Sun - Status Quo 15 15 13 14 9145
    19 15 Light My Fire - Jose Feliciano 14 17 14 10 8835
    25 16 The Wreck Of The Antoinette - Dave Dee, Dozy, Beaky, Mick and Tich 17 18 16 18 7455
    27 17 Only One Woman - The Marbles 16 16 18 17 7440
    NEW 18 With A Little Help From My Friends - Joe Cocker 18 13 21 20 7035
    16 19 Hello I Love You - The Doors 20 20 17 19 6720
    7 20 I've Gotta Get A Message To You - The Bee Gees 19 19 20 16 6425
    11 21 I Say A Little Prayer - Aretha Franklin 21 21 19 21 5850
    15 22 Do It Again - The Beach Boys 22 22 23 23 4480
    24 23 Marianne - Cliff Richard 24 23 22 29 4020
    30 24 The Weight - The Band 23 24 27 22 3165
    17 25 High In The Sky - Amen Corner 25 26 26 26 2675
    18 26 Dream A Little Dream Of Me - Mama Cass 26 24 25 2260
    23 27 I Live For The Sun - Vanity Fare 27= 25 27 1840
    21 28 On The Road Again - Canned Heat 29 27 29 28 1555
    26 29 Help Yourself - Tom Jones 27= 28 24 1345
    RE 30 The Good The Bad And The Ugly - Leroy Holmes 30 25 1200
    Sunshine Of Your Love - Cream 28 30 850
    Heartache - Roy Orbison 29 400
    You're All I Need To Get By - Marvin Gaye and Tammi Terrell 30 30 285

    Comment


    • I could never warm to Joe Cocker's interpretation of WALHFMF. Far too overwrought. Contributing to vocals were Sue and Sunny, the sisters who sang backing vocals on many hits in the 60s, 70s and 80s. They sang on 'Boom Bang-A-Bang' with Lulu at Eurovision 69 and were vocalists on 'United We Stand' by the original version of Brotherhood Of Man.

      Comment


      • I liked Joe Cocker's style Robbie, the contorted facial expressions and waving about with the hands, he really put his heart and soul into it and made it his own.

        Now, original BOM United We Stand was anthemic and I loved it.

        Comment


        • My late Aunty had the privilege of having her gas fire fixed by Joe Cocker!
          Education for anyone aged 12 to 16 has made a mess of the world!

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Robbie View Post
            I could never warm to Joe Cocker's interpretation of WALHFMF. Far too overwrought. Contributing to vocals were Sue and Sunny, the sisters who sang backing vocals on many hits in the 60s, 70s and 80s. They sang on 'Boom Bang-A-Bang' with Lulu at Eurovision 69 and were vocalists on 'United We Stand' by the original version of Brotherhood Of Man.
            Agree - horribly overwrought, never liked it.

            Bill Oddie nailed it with his parody:

            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TMaB0cqwcvI

            Sue and Sunny also provided backing vocals on Chris Spedding's Motor Bikin', one of the best hit singles from the post glam pre punk wasteland...
            Last edited by Metalweb; Thu November 26, 2020, 02:24.

            Comment


            • Greetings Pop Pickers !

              .. and here comes the second record I mentioned that was cruelly denied #1 status, Barry Ryan's Eloise, an epic that still thrills me to this day. It reached #1 on both NME and MM but on different weeks therefore denying it the top slot grrrrrrrrrrrrr. Two other gems debut too this week, The Isley Brothers and Jimi Hendrix with his best single ever. Oh Yeah !

              There are again 10 differences this week in chart positions between the BBC Chart and The Ultimate Averaged Chart.

              Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending October 26th 1968.

              The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending October 26th 1968 NME MM RR Total
              Last This The Sound Survey Stores 200 250 85 Points
              Week Week The Top 30 Singles Chart BBC TOP 30 Scored
              1 1 Those Were The Days - Mary Hopkin 1 1 1 1 16050
              4 2 Hey Jude - The Beatles 2 4 2 2 15115
              2 3 Jesamine - The Casuals 3 3 3 3 14980
              3 4 Little Arrows - Leapy Lee 4 2 4 4 14845
              5 5 My Little Lady - The Tremeloes 5 5 5 8 13655
              7 6 Les Bicyclettes De Belsize - Engelbert Humperdinck 6 8 6 5 13060
              9 7 A Day Without Love - The Love Affair 7 10 8 6 12075
              18 8 With A Little Help From My Friends - Joe Cocker 9 6 10 13 11780
              11 9 The Good The Bad And The Ugly - Hugo Montenegro 8 9 10 7 11690
              8 10 The Red Balloon - The Dave Clark Five 12 12 7 14 11245
              12 11 Listen To Me - The Hollies 10= 7 13 11 11000
              6 12 Lady Willpower - Gary Puckett and The Union Gap 10= 13 9 9 10970
              17 13 Only One Woman - The Marbles 13 11 12 12 10365
              15 14 Light My Fire - Jose Feliciano 14 14 14 10 9435
              16 15 The Wreck Of The Antoinette - Dave Dee, Dozy, Beaky, Mick and Tich 15 15 15 17 8390
              10 16 Classical Gas - Mason Williams 16 17 16 15 7910
              13 17 Hold Me Tight - Johnny Nash 17 16 17 16 7775
              14 18 Ice In The Sun - Status Quo 18 18 18 18 6955
              20 19 I've Gotta Get A Message To You - The Bee Gees 19= 22 21 20 5235
              19 20 Hello I Love You - The Doors 19= 25 19 19 5220
              23 21 Marianne - Cliff Richard 21 24 20 22 4915
              21 22 I Say A Little Prayer - Aretha Franklin 22 22 25 23 3980
              24 23 The Weight - The Band 23 22 21 3100
              NEW 24 Breaking Down The Walls Of Heartache - The Bandwagon 24 29 23 24 2995
              NEW 25 All Along The Watchtower - The Jimi Hendrix Experience 26 18 2600
              NEW 26 Sunshine Of Your Love - Cream 25 26 28 25 2260
              NEW 27 This Old Heart Of Mine - The Isley Brothers 28 20 2200
              NEW 28 You're All I Need To Get By - Marvin Gaye and Tammi Terrell 27 24 26 2175
              NEW 29 Eloise - Barry Ryan 29 21 2000
              29 30 Help Yourself - Tom Jones 30 27 27 1340
              Rudi's In Love - The Locomotive 26 1250
              Magic Bus - The Who 26 1000
              Harper Valley P.T.A. - Jeannie C. Riley 29 29 900
              On The Road Again - Canned Heat 29 28 655
              If I Knew Then What I Know Now - Val Doonican 28 600
              Dream A Little Dream Of Me - Mama Cass 30 29 420
              Do It Again - The Beach Boys 30 85


              Comment


              • It is difficult to think of a song that sounds more like a number one than Eloise!

                Every time I watch the TV now I hear 'Do you want to know a secret?' on the Cadburys advert. This was another one that did not make number one in RR but did in all the other charts. As was 'Stranger on the shore', an even more glaring omission in the 'official' pantheon of number ones - simply based on RRs very low sampling at the time.

                Comment


                • Greetings Pop Pickers !

                  Another couple of 1968 gems debut this week. Nina Simone heading for the Top 3 and the excellent Rudi's In Love from The Locomotive which floundered in the bottom ten and should have gone much higher.

                  There are 12 differences this week in chart positions between the BBC Chart and The Ultimate Averaged Chart.

                  Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending November 2nd 1968.

                  The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending November 2nd 1968 NME MM RR Total
                  Last This The Sound Survey Stores 200 250 85 Points
                  Week Week The Top 30 Singles Chart BBC TOP 30 Scored
                  1 1 Those Were The Days - Mary Hopkin 1 1 1 1 16050
                  8 2 With A Little Help From My Friends - Joe Cocker 2 2 3 2 15265
                  4 3 Little Arrows - Leapy Lee 3= 4 2 4 14945
                  9 4 The Good The Bad And The Ugly - Hugo Montenegro 3= 3 4 3 14730
                  13 5 Only One Woman - The Marbles 5 5 7 5 13410
                  5 6 My Little Lady - The Tremeloes 6 6 5 10 13285
                  3 7 Jesamine - The Casuals 7 8 9 8 12055
                  2 8 Hey Jude - The Beatles 8 13 6 7 11890
                  6 9 Les Bicyclettes De Belsize - Engelbert Humperdinck 9= 10 8 9 11820
                  11 10 Listen To Me - The Hollies 11 7 11 12 11415
                  14 11 Light My Fire - Jose Feliciano 9= 11 10 6 11375
                  7 12 A Day Without Love - The Love Affair 12 12 13 11 10000
                  10 13 The Red Balloon - The Dave Clark Five 13 16 12 13 9280
                  29 14 Eloise - Barry Ryan 14 13 15 16 8875
                  27 15 This Old Heart Of Mine - The Isley Brothers 16 9 18 19 8670
                  15 16 The Wreck Of The Antoinette - Dave Dee, Dozy, Beaky, Mick and Tich 15 17 14 14 8495
                  25 17 All Along The Watchtower - The Jimi Hendrix Experience 17= 15 17 18 7805
                  12 18 Lady Willpower - Gary Puckett and The Union Gap 17= 19 16 15 7510
                  24 19 Breaking Down The Walls Of Heartache - The Bandwagon 19 18 20 20 6285
                  NEW 20 Mexico - Long John Baldry 20 20 21 21 5550
                  16 21 Classical Gas - Mason Williams 21 19 17 4190
                  28 22 You're All I Need To Get By - Marvin Gaye and Tammi Terrell 22 21 25 23 4180
                  NEW 23 Magic Bus - The Who 24 22 26 29 3220
                  17 24 Hold Me Tight - Johnny Nash 23 22 22 3015
                  21 25 Marianne - Cliff Richard 25 23 24 2595
                  18 26 Ice In The Sun - Status Quo 26 24 25 2260
                  NEW 27 If I Knew Then What I Know Now - Val Doonican 27= 24 30 1650
                  NEW 28 Rudi's In Love - The Locomotive 30= 28 27 1600
                  NEW 29 Ain't Got No..I Got Life - Nina Simone 27= 23 1600
                  26 30 Sunshine Of Your Love - Cream 27= 29 28 28 1405
                  Elenore - The Turtles 30= 24 1400
                  It's In His Kiss - Betty Everett 26 1000
                  Harper Valley P.T.A. - Jeannie C. Riley 29 27 840
                  May I Have The Next Dream With You - Malcolm Roberts 27 800
                  Hello I Love You - The Doors 26 425
                  Sunshine Cottage - The Herd 30 200
                  Wait For Me Mary-Anne - The Marmalade 30 85

                  Comment


                  • Greetings Pop Pickers !

                    A class new entry from The Turtles this week, a much underrated group over here.

                    There are 8 differences this week in chart positions between the BBC Chart and The Ultimate Averaged Chart.

                    Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending November 9th 1968.

                    The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending November 9th 1968 NME MM RR Total
                    Last This The Sound Survey Stores 200 250 85 Points
                    Week Week The Top 30 Singles Chart BBC TOP 30 Scored
                    2 1 With A Little Help From My Friends - Joe Cocker 1 1 1 1 16050
                    4 2 The Good The Bad And The Ugly - Hugo Montenegro 2 2 2 3 15430
                    1 3 Those Were The Days - Mary Hopkin 3 3 4 2 14815
                    5 4 Only One Woman - The Marbles 4 5 3 6 14325
                    14 5 Eloise - Barry Ryan 5 6 5 4 13795
                    15 6 This Old Heart Of Mine - The Isley Brothers 6 4 8 5 13360
                    11 7 Light My Fire - Jose Feliciano 7 7 6 7 13090
                    3 8 Little Arrows - Leapy Lee 8 8 7 8 12555
                    17 9 All Along The Watchtower - The Jimi Hendrix Experience 9 12 9 9 11170
                    6 10 My Little Lady - The Tremeloes 10 10 10 13 10980
                    8 11 Hey Jude - The Beatles 11= 15 11 10 9985
                    7 12 Jesamine - The Casuals 11= 11 14 11 9950
                    10 13 Listen To Me - The Hollies 13 9 15 14 9845
                    9 14 Les Bicyclettes De Belsize - Engelbert Humperdinck 14 16 12 12 9365
                    20 15 Mexico - Long John Baldry 15 14 13 17 9090
                    19 16 Breaking Down The Walls Of Heartache - The Bandwagon 16 13 17 16 8375
                    12 17 A Day Without Love - The Love Affair 17 17 16 15 7910
                    16 18 The Wreck Of The Antoinette - Dave Dee, Dozy, Beaky, Mick and Tich 18 18 18 18 6955
                    13 19 The Red Balloon - The Dave Clark Five 19 22 19 22 5565
                    22 20 You're All I Need To Get By - Marvin Gaye and Tammi Terrell 20 21 24 21 4600
                    NEW 21 Elenore - The Turtles 21= 19 25 23 4580
                    NEW 22 Harper Valley P.T.A. - Jeannie C. Riley 24 23 22 24 4445
                    18 23 Lady Willpower - Gary Puckett and The Union Gap 21= 28 20 19 4370
                    23 24 Magic Bus - The Who 25 25 21 26 4125
                    27 25 If I Knew Then What I Know Now - Val Doonican 21= 27 23 27 3140
                    28 26 Rudi's In Love - The Locomotive 27 26 27 25 2510
                    NEW 27 May I Have The Next Dream With You - Malcolm Roberts 28 20 30 2450
                    21 28 Classical Gas - Mason Williams 26 26 20 2185
                    29 29 Ain't Got No..I Got Life - Nina Simone 29 24 28 1655
                    24 30 Hold Me Tight - Johnny Nash 30 28 29 920
                    Sunshine Of Your Love - Cream 29 30 585
                    Wait For Me Mary-Anne - The Marmalade 29 400
                    Hello I Love You - The Doors 30 200

                    Comment


                    • Greetings Pop Pickers !

                      There are 11 differences this week in chart positions between the BBC Chart and The Ultimate Averaged Chart.

                      Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending November 16th 1968.
                      The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending November 16th 1968 NME MM RR Total
                      Last This The Sound Survey Stores 200 250 85 Points
                      Week Week The Top 30 Singles Chart BBC TOP 30 Scored
                      2 1 The Good The Bad And The Ugly - Hugo Montenegro 1 1 3 1 15550
                      5 2 Eloise - Barry Ryan 2 2 1 3 15680
                      1 3 With A Little Help From My Friends - Joe Cocker 3 3 2 2 15315
                      6 4 This Old Heart Of Mine - The Isley Brothers 4 4 4 4 14445
                      3 5 Those Were The Days - Mary Hopkin 5 5 6 5 13660
                      4 6 Only One Woman - The Marbles 6 6 5 8 13455
                      7 7 Light My Fire - Jose Feliciano 7 7 7 7 12840
                      9 8 All Along The Watchtower - The Jimi Hendrix Experience 8 9 8 6 12275
                      16 9 Breaking Down The Walls Of Heartache - The Bandwagon 9 8 9 9 11970
                      8 10 Little Arrows - Leapy Lee 10 10 10 14 10895
                      15 11 Mexico - Long John Baldry 11 11 11 16 10275
                      13 12 Listen To Me - The Hollies 13= 14 12 15 9510
                      21 13 Elenore - The Turtles 13= 12 16 13 9080
                      10 14 My Little Lady - The Tremeloes 15 13 14 17 9040
                      12 15 Jesamine - The Casuals 12 15 15 10 8985
                      11 16 Hey Jude - The Beatles 16 24 13 11 7600
                      14 17 Les Bicyclettes De Belsize - Engelbert Humperdinck 17 20 17 12 7315
                      22 18 Harper Valley P.T.A. - Jeannie C. Riley 18 16 20 21 6600
                      25 19 If I Knew Then What I Know Now - Val Doonican 19= 18 19 26 6025
                      20 20 You're All I Need To Get By - Marvin Gaye and Tammi Terrell 19= 22 22 19 5070
                      26 21 Rudi's In Love - The Locomotive 23 21 21 25 5010
                      27 22 May I Have The Next Dream With You - Malcolm Roberts 22 17 25 24 4895
                      17 23 A Day Without Love - The Love Affair 24 29 18 20 4585
                      29 24 Ain't Got No..I Got Life - Nina Simone 21 19 27 18 4505
                      18 25 The Wreck Of The Antoinette - Dave Dee, Dozy, Beaky, Mick and Tich 25 26 23 22 3765
                      24 26 Magic Bus - The Who 26 25 24 28 3205
                      New 27 I'm A Tiger - Lulu 28= 23 28 30 2435
                      19 28 The Red Balloon - The Dave Clark Five 28= 28 26 27 2190
                      New 29 Lily The Pink - The Scaffold 27 27 29 23 1980
                      23 30 Lady Willpower - Gary Puckett and The Union Gap 30 250
                      Sunshine Cottage - The Herd 30 200
                      Classical Gas - Mason Williams 30 29 170
                      Last edited by MrTibbs; Wed January 13, 2021, 14:17.

                      Comment


                      • Ironically the unfairness is actually giving the correct (should I say record that sold most copies) for that week. Next week Barry will top the chart and he made a great film to go along with it. We will see if your made up chart does the same!
                        Education for anyone aged 12 to 16 has made a mess of the world!

                        Comment


                        • I really appreciate the guys who follow, enjoy, and contribute positively ( thankfully there's only one really negative follower) towards this thread. Nearly 28,000 views, and 20 followers to date who 'like' what I am doing and urge me to continue, and all this since just mid June of this year.

                          I sincerely thank you all for your continuing support.

                          Not bad for a 'made up' chart !

                          Comment


                          • Thank-you for doing it!

                            If Barry doesn't make it, as implied, then I suppose there are only 4 more number ones before the end of this chapter.

                            To be fair to RR, they do seem to be performing better overall in their final weeks - without the big lags and slow climbs of earlier years.

                            Comment


                            • It's nothing personal Brian, I consider all charts that have very strict rules about how records are placed to be made up. Yours is a very good chart. And you should continue doing them.
                              All charts have there critics. You constantly knock the Record Retailer chart! As far as I can tell most people would agree with you on that. In fact it would be interesting to see what your top 30 would look like with Record Retailer not included. Perhaps you could do one as an example?
                              Education for anyone aged 12 to 16 has made a mess of the world!

                              Comment


                              • Thanks Splodj , and yeah Hugo, Scaffold, Marmalade and Fleetwood Mac will close this first chapter.

                                When I actually started this project I deliberated long and hard about leaving RR out as it was always the outlier.

                                But you make an interesting point Graham, once I have finished The Ultimate Averaged Chart 1956 to 1969 I can, if enough guys are interested, open a new thread and post all the charts as they would have appeared minus RR. this would be quick and easy to do as they are all in excel spreadsheet format already and it's just a simple case of deleting the RR column and the spreadsheet will re-calculate the other charts.

                                So, is this something others would like to see after I finish TUAC 56 to 69 ?

                                Brian

                                Comment


                                • Greetings Pop Pickers !

                                  and those memorable new entries just keep on coming as The Bonzos debut with the eccentric and humorous but catchy Urban Spaceman, and that guitar riff in The Gun's Race With The Devil gets into your head and just won't leave.

                                  There are 10 differences this week in chart positions between the BBC Chart and The Ultimate Averaged Chart.

                                  Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending November 23rd 1968.


                                  The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending November 23rd 1968 NME MM RR Total
                                  Last This The Sound Survey Stores 200 250 85 Points
                                  Week Week The Top 30 Singles Chart BBC TOP 30 Scored
                                  1 1 The Good The Bad And The Ugly - Hugo Montenegro 1 2 1 1 15850
                                  2 2 Eloise - Barry Ryan 2 1 2 2 15715
                                  4 3 This Old Heart Of Mine - The Isley Brothers 3 3 3 3 14980
                                  9 4 Breaking Down The Walls Of Heartache - The Bandwagon 4 4 5 4 14195
                                  3 5 With A Little Help From My Friends - Joe Cocker 5 5 4 5 14160
                                  8 6 All Along The Watchtower - The Jimi Hendrix Experience 6 6 6 6 13375
                                  6 7 Only One Woman - The Marbles 7 8 7 8 12555
                                  5 8 Those Were The Days - Mary Hopkin 8 7 8 9 12420
                                  13 9 Elenore - The Turtles 9 9 10 7 11690
                                  7 10 Light My Fire - Jose Feliciano 10 10 9 11 11400
                                  24 11 Ain't Go No..I Got Life - Nina Simone 11 11 12 10 10535
                                  11 12 Mexico - Long John Baldry 12 14 11 15 9760
                                  27 13 I'm A Tiger - Lulu 15 13 14 17 9040
                                  19 14 If I Knew Then What I Know Now - Val Doonican 14 16 13 14 8945
                                  29 15 Lily The Pink - The Scaffold 13 12 18 12 8665
                                  10 16 Little Arrows - Leapy Lee 16 18 17 13 7630
                                  12 17 Listen To Me - The Hollies 17 20 15 18 7305
                                  14 18 My Little Lady - The Tremeloes 20 21 16 23 6430
                                  22 19 May I Have The Next Dream With You - Malcolm Roberts 19 15 23 20 6135
                                  15 20 Jesamine - The Casuals 18 22 19 16 6075
                                  20 21 You're All I Need To Get By - Marvin Gaye and Tammi Terrell 21 19 21 21 5750
                                  17 22 Les Bicyclettes De Balsize - Engelbert Humperdinck 21= 23 20 19 5370
                                  18 23 Harper Valley P.T.A. - Jeannie C. Riley 23 17 24 22 5315
                                  16 24 Hey Jude - The Beatles 24 28 21 24 3695
                                  21 25 Rudi's In Love - The Locomotive 25 24 25 26 3325
                                  NEW 26 I'm The Urban Spaceman - The Bonzo Dog Doo Dah Band 26 25 29 25 2210
                                  23 27 A Day Without Love - The Love Affair 28= 26 29 1420
                                  26 28 Magic Bus - The Who 27 27 27 1340
                                  25 29 The Wreck Of The Antoinette - Dave Dee, Dozy, Beaky, Mick and Tich 28= 30 28 28 1205
                                  NEW 30 Race With The Devil - The Gun 30= 26 1000
                                  Rain And Tears - Aphrodite's Child 30= 27 30 885
                                  I'm In A Different World - The Four Tops 28 600
                                  One Two Three O'Leary - Des O'Connor 30 250
                                  Yours Until Tomorrow - Gene Pitney 30 200
                                  Last edited by MrTibbs; Sat November 28, 2020, 13:51.

                                  Comment


                                  • If you want to see a composite chart that excluded RR then the BBC chart up to 14th March 1962 serves that purpose - although I believe the pre-1964 BBC chart suffers from the same sort of sloppy miscalculations and strange-goings-on revealed in this thread.

                                    Despite RRs inclusion the BBC chart still had Please Please Me at number one for three weeks (tied on the third week) but failed to have I Want To Hold Your Hand enter at number one (because of the RR drag effect) as it had not yet introduced the odd-one-out rule.

                                    Alan Smith says that RR sampled only 30 stores up to January 1964 when it went over to postal returns. I realise other charts had smaller samples also, but not by so much. So if the weighting is adjusted accordingly in the Ultimate it would reduce RRs malignant effect.

                                    Comment


                                    • Personally if I was doing these charts I would have left out RR as it is now considered the "Official" chart of the 60's regardless of it's merit. It's not just the fact it's new records are slower, but it holds onto the old hits too. Plus we are talking only top 30, so the justification of it being a top 50, used by the compilers of the GBHS has no meaning to these charts, as 31 to 50 points are not counted.
                                      Actually if it is the intention to leave out RR, the size of the chart becomes less important. After all it's the top part of the chart - the top ten - is all that is required. That answers questions like (on a points based chart) who was actually Number One? Who did go straight in at One? And who did get a top ten hit?
                                      Plus if only 30 shops were used I wouldn't even call that a truly National Chart!
                                      Education for anyone aged 12 to 16 has made a mess of the world!

                                      Comment


                                      • I think in this section at least it was definitely right to include RR and the Top 30 was just the right size. I still think RR should be included pre-1964, but with a different weighting.

                                        At the risk of sounding like a scratched record, maverick positionings could be dealt with by ignoring those that are way out.

                                        Comment


                                        • You raise interesting points there guys. I'm currently working ahead with the charts as you know, so I'm on July 1960 using all 5 charts since RR came on board on the 10th March. I have to say if you thought RR was behind the throng in 1964 onwards wait till you see 1960. One one occasion Connie Stevens was #9 in RR and the following week right out of the Top 50, that should just not be possible.

                                          As to weightings. I'm using Alan's Smith's evidence based returns again but the proportions are different from those used in 1964 onwards. Specifically I'm using 80 for NME, 60 for RM, 38 for MM, 50 for Disc, and 30 for RR. This will change a little on the 31st July 1960 when MM got serious about its chart and moved to a system of using110 returns. The other samples will remain the same for now.

                                          As a result the other four music papers returns pull RR very much into line thankfully so their sample has little impact.

                                          The problem with ignoring maverick positions is easy to consider but difficult in practise as it becomes subjective and moves away from an objective evidence base, but like I said above 4 charts more or less consistent pull RR into the fold.
                                          For consistency I will use all RR charts, yes they were the weakest but they are unfortunately considered a major player so have to be considered along with all the other major players.

                                          In 1960 the chart positions between 21 and 30 are heavily influenced by NME and RR as RM, MM, and Disc only compiled top 20's but from what I can see thus far these charts overall are much more robust, all embracing, and accurate than the BBC chart which was still only a top 20 at that time.

                                          Comment


                                          • ^
                                            The erratic chart run of 'Sixteen Reasons' by Connie Stevens is commented on in the first edition of Top 40 Charts which was published by Guinness in 1992. The chart run is noted along with an observation that the Record Retailer chart was "having teething troubles"! We can look at it closer when you post the relvant chart but I'd say it was probably more down to error than teething troubles.

                                            Comment


                                            • This is just a comment and not a criticism as you have explained the rationale behind your decision but personally I would have opted to keep a straight points based chart and therefore would have placed 'Eloise' by Barry Ryan at number 1 on the chart of 16 November 1968. Under the points allocation system the record is clearly ahead. But you've explained your reasoning for placing it at number 2. It could have made for an interesting talking point had it been at number 1!

                                              Comment


                                              • Eloise was and is a great favourite of mine Robbie and I was momentarily thrilled to see it top on points.
                                                But like I said before I need to be consistent. To strictly apply just points would have disadvantaged The Beatles as just one example who clearly topped most charts yet lost out on points
                                                A number one deserves close consideration best served by what tops most charts. Can u imagine the flak I woulda got if Can't Buy Me Love, I Feel Fine, Ticket To Ride etc were denied entering at #1 because of RR lol.

                                                Comment


                                                • Greetings Pop Pickers !

                                                  There are 13 differences this week in chart positions between the BBC Chart and The Ultimate Averaged Chart.

                                                  Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending November 30th 1968.

                                                  The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending November 30th 1968 NME MM RR Total
                                                  Last This The Sound Survey Stores 200 250 85 Points
                                                  Week Week The Top 30 Singles Chart BBC TOP 30 Scored
                                                  1 1 The Good The Bad And The Ugly - Hugo Montenegro 1 2 1 1 15850
                                                  2 2 Eloise - Barry Ryan 2 1 2 2 15715
                                                  3 3 This Old Heart Of Mine - The Isley Brothers 3 3 3 3 14980
                                                  4 4 Breaking Down The Walls Of Heartache - The Bandwagon 4= 4 4 6 14275
                                                  15 5 Lily The Pink - The Scaffold 4= 5 5 4 13995
                                                  9 6 Elenore - The Turtles 7 7 6 8 13005
                                                  6 7 All Along The Watchtower - The Jimi Hendrix Experience 6 8 7 5 12810
                                                  11 8 Ain't Got No..I Got Life - Nina Simone 8 6 10 7 12290
                                                  13 9 I'm A Tiger - Lulu 9 9 7 9 12270
                                                  5 10 With A Little Help From My Friends - Joe Cocker 10 11 9 10 11285
                                                  14 11 If I Knew Then What I Know Now - Val Doonican 12 12 11 17 9990
                                                  8 12 Those Were The Days - Mary Hopkin 11 16 12 11 9450
                                                  23 13 Harper Valley P.T.A. - Jeannie C. Riley 13 10 16 15 9310
                                                  19 14 May I Have The Next Dream With You - Malcolm Roberts 14= 13 15 14 9045
                                                  NEW 15 One Two Three O'Leary - Des O'Connor 16 14 14 16 8925
                                                  7 16 Only One Woman - The Marbles 14= 17 13 12 8915
                                                  10 17 Light My Fire - Jose Feliciano 17 15 17 13 8230
                                                  16 18 Little Arrows - Leapy Lee 18 20 19 20 6135
                                                  21 19 You're All I Need To Get By - Marvin Gaye and Tammi Terrell 19 19 21 21 5750
                                                  26 20 I'm The Urban Spaceman - The Bonzo Dog Doo Dah Band 20 25 20 18 5055
                                                  12 21 Mexico - Long John Baldry 21= 28 18 19 4870
                                                  NEW 22 Build Me Up Buttercup - The Foundations 21= 18 25 22 4865
                                                  25 23 Rudi's In Love - The Locomotive 23 23 23 30 3685
                                                  17 24 Listen To Me - The Hollies 24 22 23 2930
                                                  30 25 Race With The Devil - The Gun 26 24 29 28 2155
                                                  22 26 Les Bicyclettes De Belsize - Engelbert Humperdinck 27 24 27 2090
                                                  NEW 27 Love Child - Diana Ross and The Supremes 25 30 26 24 2045
                                                  NEW 28 A Minute Of Your Time - Tom Jones 28= 22 1800
                                                  20 29 Jesamine - The Casuals 28= 27 26 1425
                                                  24 30 Hey Jude - The Beatles 28= 28 25 1260
                                                  The Beatles (LP) - The Beatles 20 2200
                                                  Quick Joey Small - The Kasenetz-Katz Singing Orchestral Circus 26 1000
                                                  Don't Forget To Catch Me - Cliff Richard 27 800
                                                  Private Number - William Bell and Judy Clay 29 29 570
                                                  My Little Lady - The Tremeloes 30 250

                                                  Comment


                                                  • One of the best songs by The Supremes is in at 27. 'Love Child' mixes both that trademark Motown sound with social commentary in a record that touches upon a subject that was still a sensitive issue at the time, namely having children out of wedlock.

                                                    The Gun features the Gurvitz brothers, including Adrian who would later sing a song about writing a classic. I think he must have forgotten he had already written a classic in the shape of 'Race With The Devil'. Presumably he wrote it in an attic.

                                                    'I'm The Urban Spaceman' was written by Neil Innes, of Monty Python collaboration and The Rutles fame. His most successful song was one he didn't actually write - 'Whatever' by Oasis. Noel Gallagher had to give up some of the royalties to the song due to plagiarism (the melody was ruled to be lifted from Innes' 'How Sweet To Be An Idiot', Innes also now has a co-writer credit for 'Whatever'). Sadly Neil Innes died on 29 December 2019. 'I'm The Urban Spaceman' was produced by Apollo C. Vermouth, an alias of Paul McCartney.

                                                    Comment

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