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The Ultimate Averaged Chart - The BBC Chart Re-Imagined

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  • ^

    One of the more uncontroversial death discs of the era!

    Probably considered rather politically incorrect nowadays though...

    Comment


    • 2 A Voice In The Wilderness - Cliff Richard
      22 Expresso Bongo (EP) - Cliff Richard
      Perhaps the reason Cliff did not reach number one was that "A Voice In The Wilderness" was also a track on the EP. Some fans would not purchase both.

      Comment


      • NEW 28 Strictly Elvis (EP) - Elvis Presley

        Yet another EP to make the NME singles chart. (by Mister EP himself!)

        Comment


        • Originally posted by brian05 View Post

          Perhaps the reason Cliff did not reach number one was that "A Voice In The Wilderness" was also a track on the EP. Some fans would not purchase both.
          Yeah I agree Brian if buyers had it on the EP they wouldn't go out and buy the single, also the EP was selling well as it was #1 on the EP chart.
          The Ultimate Averaged Chart. The Definitive Chart Reflecting The Fifties and Sixties.

          Comment


          • Greetings Pop Pickers !

            There are 7 differences this week in chart positions between the BBC Chart Top 20 and The Ultimate Averaged Chart.

            Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending February 20th 1960.

            The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending February 20th 1960 NME RM MM DISC Total
            Last This The Sound Survey Stores 80 60 38 50 Points
            Week Week The Top 30 Singles Chart BBC TOP 30 Scored
            1 1 Why - Anthony Newley 1 1 1 1 1 6840
            2 2 A Voice In The Wilderness - Cliff Richard 2 2 2 2 2 6612
            5 3 Poor Me - Adam Faith 3 3 3 3 4 6334
            3 4 Way Down Yonder In New Orleans - Freddy Cannon 4 4 4 6 5 6030
            7 5 On A Slow Boat To China - Emile Ford and The Checkmates 5 5 6 4 6 5856
            6 6 Pretty Blue Eyes - Craig Douglas 6 6 5 5 7 5748
            4 7 Starry Eyed - Michael Holliday 7 7 7 7 3 5672
            10 8 Beyond The Sea (La Mer) - Bobby Darin 8 9 9 9 9 5016
            8 9 What Do You Want To Make Those Eyes At Me For - Emile Ford and The Checkmates 9 11 11 8 8 4824
            17 10 Running Bear - Johnny Preston 10 8 8 10 16 4768
            9 11 Heartaches By The Number - Guy Mitchell 11 10 10 14 10 4636
            14 12 Harbour Lights - The Platters 12 16 12 13 12 3974
            12 13 Summer Set - Mr. Acker Bilk 14 12 13 17 15 3932
            11 14 What Do You Want - Adam Faith 13 14 19 12 11 3802
            13 15 Misty - Johnny Mathis 15 13 17 18 14 3624
            NEW 16 Be Mine - Lance Fortune 16 22 14 11 2500
            NEW 17 Bonnie Came Back - Duane Eddy 17= 20 16 15 2388
            21 18 You Got What It Takes - Marv Johnson 17= 15 15 2240
            18 19 Rawhide - Frankie Laine 18 19 20 2046
            20 20 Be My Guest - Fats Domino 25 18 18 1910
            19 21 Little White Bull - Tommy Steele 19 19 13 1860
            15 22 Johnny Staccato Theme - Elmer Bernstein 17 20 1538
            23 23 El Paso - Marty Robbins 22 17 1420
            NEW 24 Happy Anniversary - Joan Regan 20 29 20 16 1390
            16 25 Oh Carol - Neil Sedaka 24 19 1160
            24 26 Let It Be Me - The Everly Brothers 20 880
            NEW 27 Lucky Devil - Frank Ifield 26 400
            26 28 Hallelujah I Love Her So - Eddie Cochran 27 320
            27 29 You Got What It Takes - Johnny Kidd and The Pirates 28 240
            22 30 Expresso Bongo (EP) - Cliff Richard 30 80
            The Ultimate Averaged Chart. The Definitive Chart Reflecting The Fifties and Sixties.

            Comment


            • There were no 'breakers' in the chart above for that week. Below the Top Ten the points are all over the place as usual.
              The Ultimate Averaged Chart. The Definitive Chart Reflecting The Fifties and Sixties.

              Comment


              • You can actually download or buy the CD's of the entire songs that made the charts for 1960 to 1962.
                The albums are called "The British Hit Parade" for 1060, 1961 and 1962. They generally come in two parts for each year. January to June, then July to December.
                Last time I checked they never got around to 1963. Perhaps due to the copyright issues with the Beatles tracks that later years would have.
                Prices are around 10 to 12 for each part (MP3) but you do get around 180 tracks on each part!
                They would compliment Brian's charts perfectly!
                Education for anyone aged 12 to 16 has made a mess of the world!

                Comment


                • ^

                  Yes, those were great CD collections - I bought several of them when they came out a few years ago.

                  They were released by an outfit called Acrobat when the tracks concerned had dropped out of 50 year copyright.

                  For some reason the project ended with 1962!

                  Comment


                  • Yeah I believe I have seen the later fifties years too in that collection.
                    The Ultimate Averaged Chart. The Definitive Chart Reflecting The Fifties and Sixties.

                    Comment


                    • They did all charting A-sides and, I think, B-Sides and RecordMirror etc records form 1952 to end 1962. They are taken directly from original 45 or 78 records, allegedly bought at the time and cleaned up - thus getting around (c) laws as the records are "out of (c). When 1963 came round the UK Government had amended (c) laws to stop this sort of thing. It was felt that the Beatles going out of (c) was too much to bear! See https://consequenceofsound.net/2013/...es-love-me-do/ as well as https://www.theguardian.com/music/20...release-tracks both form 2013 when tis was being discussed. Hence why we got some good releases in the years leading up to this!
                      http://thechartbook.co.uk - for the latest are best chart book - By Decade!
                      Now including NME, Record Mirror and Melody Maker from the UK and some Billboard charts

                      Comment


                      • The British Hit Parade series had to end at 1962 as the law on copyright changed which affected recordings from 1963 onwards. Until 2013 copyright on sound recordings existed for 50 years following the date of release. In 2013 this was extended to 70 years.

                        https://swanturton.com/extension-of-...ormers-rights/

                        Just in time for The Beatles though of course that was purely coincidental...

                        Comment


                        • I never knew that the copyright laws had changed to 70 years. That was no coincidence it happened on the threshold of Beatles main recordings lol.
                          The Ultimate Averaged Chart. The Definitive Chart Reflecting The Fifties and Sixties.

                          Comment


                          • Well, that certainly explains it!

                            Disappointing, they were impressively comprehensive and collectible CD box sets..

                            Would have been up to 1970 by now...

                            Comment


                            • Greetings Pop Pickers !

                              There are 5 differences this week in chart positions between the BBC Chart Top 20 and The Ultimate Averaged Chart Top 20.

                              Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending February 27th 1960.

                              The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending February 27th 1960 NME RM MM DISC Total
                              Last This The Sound Survey Stores 80 60 38 50 Points
                              Week Week The Top 30 Singles Chart BBC TOP 30 Scored
                              1 1 Why - Anthony Newley 1 1 1 1 1 6840
                              3 2 Poor Me - Adam Faith 2 2 2 3 3 6524
                              2 3 A Voice In The Wilderness - Cliff Richard 3 4 3 2 2 6392
                              4 4 Way Down Yonder In New Orleans - Freddie Cannon 4 3 4 5 6 6098
                              6 5 Pretty Blue Eyes - Craig Douglas 5 4 6 4 5 5986
                              5 6 On A Slow Boat To China - Emile Ford and The Checkmates 6 6 7 6 4 5740
                              10 7 Running Bear - Johnny Preston 7 7 5 7 8 5542
                              8 8 Beyond The Sea (La Mer) - Bobby Darin 8 8 8 8 9 5194
                              7 9 Starry Eyed - Michael Holliday 9 9 11 10 7 4958
                              16 10 Be Mine - Lance Fortune 10 13 10 9 14 4386
                              12 11 Harbour Lights - The Platters 11 11 16 11 10 4310
                              13 12 Summer Set - Mr. Acker Bilk 13 10 14 15 15 4108
                              15 13 Misty - Johnny Mathis 12 15 13 12 12 4032
                              17 14 Bonnie Came Back - Duane Eddy 14 17 9 13 19 3724
                              9 15 What Do You Want To Make Those Eyes At Me For - Emile Ford and The Checkmates 15 14 18 14 13 3686
                              18 16 You Got What It Takes - Marv Johnson 16 12 12 17 3360
                              11 17 Heartaches By The Number - Guy Mitchell 17 16 20 17 16 3142
                              14 18 What Do You Want - Adam Faith 18 20 20 11 2298
                              NEW 19 Delaware - Perry Como 24 19 19 1736
                              NEW 20 Who Could Be Bluer - Jerry Lordan 24 17 1400
                              23 21 El Paso - Marty Robbins 26 18 1050
                              21 22 Little White Bull - Tommy Steele 18 20 1044
                              26 23 Let It Be Me - The Everly Brothers 18 1040
                              NEW 24 Royal Event - Russ Conway 19 14 1020
                              20 25 Be My Guest - Fats Domino 19 960
                              19 26 Rawhide - Frankie Laine 21 800
                              27 27 Lucky Devil - Frank Ifield 22 720
                              NEW 28 Time And The River - Nat King Cole 23 640
                              NEW 29 Running Bear - Garry Mills 20 16 570
                              25 30 Oh Carol - Neil Sedaka 27 320
                              It's Time To Cry - Paul Anka 28 240
                              Expresso Bongo (EP) - Cliff Richard 29 160
                              You Got What It Takes - Johnny Kidd and The Pirates 30 80
                              The Ultimate Averaged Chart. The Definitive Chart Reflecting The Fifties and Sixties.

                              Comment


                              • Chart Commentary

                                Adam Faith closes in for a second #1 but Johnny Preston is closing the gap fast too. Perry Como and Nat King Cole score hits in the 60's now after highly successful 50's careers. As usual Nat's is a class ballad.
                                The top ten chart positions between the papers is fairly close but below that the gaps widen considerably.
                                The Ultimate Averaged Chart. The Definitive Chart Reflecting The Fifties and Sixties.

                                Comment


                                • Originally posted by Robbie View Post
                                  The British Hit Parade series had to end at 1962 as the law on copyright changed which affected recordings from 1963 onwards. Until 2013 copyright on sound recordings existed for 50 years following the date of release. In 2013 this was extended to 70 years.

                                  https://swanturton.com/extension-of-...ormers-rights/

                                  Just in time for The Beatles though of course that was purely coincidental...
                                  I find it odd that music is treated so different to books. I believe there it's 70 years after the author's death that copyright runs out on books. I suppose sheet music falls into the book thing on copyright. It does make it very difficult to have an album, even of number one hits, after 1963. Not just because of the expense, but the copyright holder can refuse permission for it completely!
                                  Education for anyone aged 12 to 16 has made a mess of the world!

                                  Comment


                                  • The copyright prolongation idea started in the U.S. caused by Elvis nearing the 50 year limit for his first hits.

                                    Comment


                                    • Brian, for 30 January 1960, the Expresso Bongo (EP) wasn't on the MM singles chart, but was on the MM EP chart, as Lonnie pointed out above. Therefore, shouldn't this EP be credited in your points total with an average chart position assigned to MM? Just to be consistent with what you were doing earlier with records on the RR EP chart that didn't chart on the RR singles chart. I think it would bump Expresso Bongo up a bit on your Ultimate Chart for this week. Rock on...

                                      Comment


                                      • I agree that any EP up until the end of May 1963 should have an average NME/RM/Disc position assigned to MM. It will make not make much difference though, particularly now when the MM weighting is low. I calculate that on 30th January it would add about 600 points, moving Cliff up just one place. Obviously up to Brian to decide.

                                        Comment


                                        • I actually think you make a valid point there guys. Where an EP is missing from just one chart an average should be taken and awarded like I did from '64 to balance it out for these years too.

                                          I will go back and amend the chart for 30th January, I believe the only one thus affected so far. Splodj's calculation is correct it will lift it one place to #13. But one place is one place better
                                          The Ultimate Averaged Chart. The Definitive Chart Reflecting The Fifties and Sixties.

                                          Comment


                                          • On the subject of "just one chart" ...

                                            When RR enters the scene it will be 3 with EPs and 2 without. Then when RM leaves it will be 2 with and 2 without. Then when MM changes it will be 3 with and 1 without.

                                            Personally I think that once the principle is established that EPs should be included in the Ultimate then an average of the 'withs' should be applied to the 'withouts' however many there are.

                                            Comment


                                            • The 'just one chart' rule though for EP's has to apply for fairness.

                                              It is fair to take an accurate average from all other charts available to apply to the one missing chart to give a credible position. But if say two charts do not place the EP, then the average becomes unreliable as it is based on a smaller sample.

                                              The bottom line is, there is no accurate way to place an EP just as there is no accurate way to place a split sided single. Using an average is really the only means to do both in the fairest manner possible, but an average is only as good as the data supporting it.

                                              This is the principle I applied from 64 onwards too.

                                              Last edited by MrTibbs; Wed December 9, 2020, 15:35.
                                              The Ultimate Averaged Chart. The Definitive Chart Reflecting The Fifties and Sixties.

                                              Comment


                                              • As mentioned above guys in respect of Cliff's EP, I have gone back to the posts on here and amended the chart for Jan 30th, placing Cliff at 13 and The Avons at 14, and also the last week positions in respect of both on the chart for 6th February as I knpow some of you keep a record of these.
                                                The Ultimate Averaged Chart. The Definitive Chart Reflecting The Fifties and Sixties.

                                                Comment


                                                • As far as I can see only 2 EPs and 1 LP, all by Elvis, made serious inroads into the singles chart before 'Twist and Shout' - so not a big issue.

                                                  Comment


                                                  • I'm glad lol, takes longer to compile each chart as it is when NME has split sides that need to be averaged, checked and placed.
                                                    The Ultimate Averaged Chart. The Definitive Chart Reflecting The Fifties and Sixties.

                                                    Comment

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