Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

The Ultimate Averaged Chart - The BBC Chart Re-Imagined

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Greetings Pop Pickers !

    There are 9 differences this week in chart positions between the BBC Chart Top 20 and The Ultimate Averaged Chart Top 20.

    Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending March 5th 1960.

    The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending March 5th 1960 NME RM MM DISC Total
    Last This The Sound Survey Stores 80 60 38 50 Points
    Week Week The Top 30 Singles Chart BBC TOP 30 Scored
    2 1 Poor Me - Adam Faith 1 1 1 2 3 6702
    1 2 Why - Anthony Newley 2 2 3 1 1 6640
    7 3 Running Bear - Johnny Preston 3 3 2 3 6 6294
    3 4 A Voice In The Wilderness - Cliff Richard 4 5 4 4 2 6176
    6 5 On A Slow Boat To China - Emile Ford and The Checkmates 5 4 5 5 4 6058
    4 6 Way Down Yonder In New Orleans - Freddy Cannon 6= 6 6 7 7 5612
    5 7 Pretty Blue Eyes - Craig Douglas 6= 7 8 6 5 5550
    19 8 Delaware - Perry Como 8 8 7 8 11 5154
    8 9 Beyond The Sea (La Mer) - Bobby Darin 9 10 10 9 8 4926
    10 10 Be Mine - Lance Fortune 10 11 9 10 10 4768
    14 11 Bonnie Came Back - Duane Eddy 14 12 12 16 16 3980
    16 12 You Got What It Takes - Marv Johnson 15 12 14 18 13 3934
    9 13 Starry Eyed - Michael Holliday 12= 14 18 13 9 3924
    11 14 Harbour Lights - The Platters 12= 14 17 11 12 3910
    12 15 Summer Set - Mr. Acker Bilk 11 9 11 12 3682
    20 16 Who Could Be Bluer - Jerry Lordan 16 16 16 17 20 3182
    24 17 Royal Event - Russ Conway 18= 17 15 18 2730
    15 18 What Do You Want To Make Those Eyes At Me For - Emile Ford and The Checkmates 17 21 14 14 2296
    13 19 Misty - Johnny Mathis 18= 20 15 15 2288
    NEW 20 Theme From 'A Summer Place' - Percy Faith 20 18 13 2120
    NEW 21 Hit And Miss - The John Barry Seven 24 20 19 1676
    23 22 Let It Be Me - The Everly Brothers 19 19 1560
    NEW 23 California Here I Come - Freddy Cannon 25 19 1200
    25 24 Be My Guest - Fats Domino 22 720
    18 25 What Do You Want - Adam Faith 17 700
    NEW 26 What In The World's Come Over You - Jack Scott 20 660
    27 27 Lucky Devil - Frank Ifield 23 640
    NEW 28 Looking High High High - Bryan Johnson 20 418
    26 29 Rawhide - Frankie Laine 26 400
    17 30 Heartaches By The Number - Guy Mitchell 27 320
    El Paso - Marty Robbins 28 240
    Time And The River - Nat King Cole 29 160
    Oh Carol - Neil Sedaka 29 160


    The Record Mirror Chart Re-Calculated, Re-Worked, Extended

    The Way It Was Meant To Be

    Comment


    • Chart Commentary

      In comes one of my all time favourite instrumentals this week, the wonderful Theme From A Summer Place by Percy Faith.
      What a record !!! So evocative.

      In too comes The Juke Box Jury theme, Hit And Miss from The John Barry Seven.

      The UK Eurovision song contest entry enters too at 28. Least said about that one the better !
      The Record Mirror Chart Re-Calculated, Re-Worked, Extended

      The Way It Was Meant To Be

      Comment


      • Originally posted by MrTibbs View Post
        In too comes The Juke Box Jury theme, Hit And Miss from The John Barry Seven.
        Still sounds good! I think they were the 'John Barry Seven plus Four' then.

        “Coming up next, ‘Juke Box Jury’. Except for viewers in Scotland who will have their own sports programme.”

        I heard an interview with David Jacobs in which he said that he threatened to sue the BBC when he heard that they were going to do the show with Pete Murray as chairman, because he had previously presented the idea to the BBC who turned it down. They settled the issue by making him chairman instead.

        One feature I liked was how the ‘hit’ bell was on the desk and the shameful ‘miss’ buzzer underneath.

        Comment


        • Yeah we seemed to get it at a different time up here.

          I loved the novelty of the jukebox. David Jacobs pressed a button and a record was selected and placed on the turntable. It was a nice touch although of course it wasn't what we were about to hear.
          The Record Mirror Chart Re-Calculated, Re-Worked, Extended

          The Way It Was Meant To Be

          Comment


          • Greetings Pop Pickers !

            There are again 9 differences this week in chart positions between the BBC Chart Top 20 and The Ultimate Averaged Chart Top 20.

            Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending March 12th 1960.

            The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending March 12th 1960 NME RM MM DISC RR Total
            Last This The Sound Survey Stores 80 60 38 50 30 Points
            Week Week The Top 30 Singles Chart BBC TOP 30 Scored
            1 1 Poor Me - Adam Faith 1 1 2 1 1 1 7680
            3 2 Running Bear - Johnny Preston 2 2 1 2 2 2 7542
            8 3 Delaware - Perry Como 3 3 3 4 4 8 6986
            5 4 On A Slow Boat To China - Emile Ford and The Checkmates 4 4 4 5 5 3 6908
            2 5 Why - Anthony Newley 5 5 6 3 6 4 6704
            4 6 A Voice In The Wilderness - Cliff Richard 6 8 5 6 3 10 6380
            7 7 Pretty Blue Eyes - Craig Douglas 7= 11 8 7 7 6 5842
            6 8 Way Down Yonder In New Orleans - Freddy Cannon 7= 6 10 9 8 12 5816
            12 9 You Got What It Takes - Marv Johnson 9= 9 9 8 13 7 5574
            15 10 Summer Set - Mr. Acker Bilk 11 10 11 11 9 5 5520
            10 11 Be Mine - Lance Fortune 9= 12 7 10 10 11 5408
            20 12 Theme From 'A Summer Place' - Percy Faith 13 7 12 16 19 16 4680
            9 13 Beyond The Sea (La Mer) - Bobby Darin 12 14 15 13 11 9 4664
            16 14 Who Could Be Bluer - Jerry Lordan 14 15 14 17 12 17 4202
            26 15 What In The World's Come Over You - Jack Scott 15 13 13 12 20 3572
            17 16 Royal Event - Russ Conway 17 16 16 18 15 3230
            11 17 Bonnie Came Back - Duane Eddy 18 18 19 14 13 3150
            14 18 Harbour Lights - The Platters 16 19 14 15 18 2796
            21 19 Hit And Miss - The John Barry Seven 19= 22 16 16 26 2520
            28 20 Looking High High High - Bryan Johnson 19= 16 20 17 2318
            NEW 21 Colette - Billy Fury 26 18 15 22 2058
            23 22 California Here I Come - Freddy Cannon 20 20 18 2034
            13 23 Starry Eyed - Michael Holliday 25 20 14 1540
            22 24 Let It Be Me - The Everly Brothers 21 19 1160
            NEW 25 Fings Ain't Wot They Used To Be - Max Bygraves 23 640
            NEW 26 Wild One - Bobby Rydell 23 640
            NEW 27 Darktown Strutters' Ball - Joe Brown 29 19 616
            19 28 Misty - Johnny Mathis 27 25 500
            30 29 Heartaches By The Number - Guy Mitchell 21 300
            NEW 30 Teen Angel - Mark Dinning 28 240
            What Do You Want To Make Those Eyes At Me For - Emile Ford and The Checkmates 23 240
            What Do You Want - Adam Faith 24 210
            Time And The River - Nat King Cole 27 120
            Rawhide - Frankie Laine 28 90
            Be My Guest - Fats Domino 30 80
            El Paso - Marty Robbins 29 60
            Little White Bull - Tommy Steele 30 30
            * RR started publishing a chart from this week and is also included from this week, so this chart is now a first, an averaged chart based on all 5 charts not just the 4 used by the BBC.
            The Record Mirror Chart Re-Calculated, Re-Worked, Extended

            The Way It Was Meant To Be

            Comment


            • Chart Commentary

              RR starts to publish a chart this week based on just 30 returns. So this means The Ultimate Averaged Chart is now compiled from 5 music papers, giving an averaged chart never before compiled. Enjoy !

              Incidentally, in an era of Elvis, Everly Bros etc Percy Faith's Summer Place will be America's biggest selling single this year.
              The Record Mirror Chart Re-Calculated, Re-Worked, Extended

              The Way It Was Meant To Be

              Comment


              • It will be interesting to see what effect the RR chart has on the UAC. Its small sample should be enough to enure it has a minimal effect on the records closer to the top. Looking at the above it's effect on the lower part of the chart is also minimal.

                Comment


                • Yeah Robbie thankfully its impact remains minimal.
                  The Record Mirror Chart Re-Calculated, Re-Worked, Extended

                  The Way It Was Meant To Be

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Robbie View Post
                    It will be interesting to see what effect the RR chart has on the UAC. Its small sample should be enough to enure it has a minimal effect on the records closer to the top. Looking at the above it's effect on the lower part of the chart is also minimal.
                    However Melody Maker is only 8 shops higher so that too must have lower effect too. Also like NME it has 30 slots, whereas the others have 20 only. With those slots missing from the other chart, it does mean that 21 to 30 are only an approximate indication of the full survey. All though the inclusion of the RR 30 does end the reign of NME on slots 21 to 30. It still means those slots are not as accurate as the later 60's charts Brian has done. Though having said that Brian's system seems to work on 21 and 22 positions most weeks.
                    I think what I have said explains why the BBC stuck with only a 20, as the 30 copies one chart too much, especially if it has the highest store level.
                    Education for anyone aged 12 to 16 has made a mess of the world!

                    Comment


                    • Yeah i would agree with that Graham. 21 to 30 are fun positions as only NME initially then RR now had an extended chart. It will be late 1962 when MM and Disc extend to a Top 30 and 21 to 30 become robust.

                      But. Its good to see how these positions shape up meantime.
                      The Record Mirror Chart Re-Calculated, Re-Worked, Extended

                      The Way It Was Meant To Be

                      Comment


                      • You may be interested to learn that Amazon have issued Kindle versions of The Official Charts - The Sixties.
                        Only costs 9.99 instead of 20 for the paperback version. It includes the UK’s Official singles and albums charts from 1952 to the present day. Also included are the accompanying EP Charts, which were published between March 1960 and December 1967. (2,330 pages)

                        One advantage of e-books (versus their print equivalents) however is the search function, which can be used to search for any titles, artists, labels or even key words, using the search function built into your e-reader or tablet app.

                        The free sample for The Official Charts - The Sixties will be auto-delivered wirelessly to your iPad.

                        If you click on Look Inside you can read this,



                        Comment


                        • "... which at the turn of the decade featured just 20 titles for singles ..."

                          Is this a misprint, or does it mean they are only using the Top 20 of the NMEs Top 30?

                          Comment


                          • What a load of hogwash that 'Look Inside' article is.

                            I've seen lots of pitiful attempts over the years to justify the RR chart but that article takes it to a whole new level.

                            Record Mirror's own chart was scrapped in March 1962 so that reference is totally inaccurate. Then to compare store returns is a joke. RR had 30 meagre stores compared to around 400 between NME, MM, and Disc. Even the simplest mathematical brain could calculate on that basis they were right and RR was wrong.

                            But sadly they are still blind and deaf to any criticism of RR. They need to take a look at my charts side by side for the first time, and take a long hard look at just who is out of step every single week.
                            The Record Mirror Chart Re-Calculated, Re-Worked, Extended

                            The Way It Was Meant To Be

                            Comment


                            • The only really good excuse for the RR chart inclusion was that it was a top 50 and it did not cut the chart down. We all know that if Melody Maker had not cut the chart down, or if NME had made it a top 50 roughly the same time. Then the first Guinness chart book would have used one of them instead. They knew that both were more accurate than RR. But if you only use a top 30, so many records get missed out and that was the driving factor.

                              Chart dates are also confusing on the Record Retailer charts, still reflected on the OCC site itself. The week ending dates on NOT always the Saturday. Some I have seen are Thursday fitting in with the publication dates. The OCC should take a look at the Calender sites at correct these dates. Some people use the charts for birthdays. If you happened to born on a Friday or Saturday you could get the wrong chart for your birthday! And I am not talking about the stupid decision when they moved the chart publication to Friday a few years ago.
                              Education for anyone aged 12 to 16 has made a mess of the world!

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Splodj View Post
                                "... which at the turn of the decade featured just 20 titles for singles ..."

                                Is this a misprint, or does it mean they are only using the Top 20 of the NMEs Top 30?
                                Must be a misprint as the book uses the full Top 30 from NME.
                                http://thechartbook.co.uk - for the latest are best chart book - By Decade!
                                Now including NME, Record Mirror and Melody Maker from the UK and some Billboard charts

                                Comment


                                • Originally posted by MrTibbs View Post
                                  What a load of hogwash that 'Look Inside' article is.

                                  I've seen lots of pitiful attempts over the years to justify the RR chart but that article takes it to a whole new level.

                                  Record Mirror's own chart was scrapped in March 1962 so that reference is totally inaccurate. Then to compare store returns is a joke. RR had 30 meagre stores compared to around 400 between NME, MM, and Disc. Even the simplest mathematical brain could calculate on that basis they were right and RR was wrong.

                                  But sadly they are still blind and deaf to any criticism of RR. They need to take a look at my charts side by side for the first time, and take a long hard look at just who is out of step every single week.
                                  They do - but remember the OCC probably dont want to admit they are wrong. And, in the face of over 40 years of “history” since the first Guinness book in 1977 its a lot to overturn, which they simply will not do.
                                  http://thechartbook.co.uk - for the latest are best chart book - By Decade!
                                  Now including NME, Record Mirror and Melody Maker from the UK and some Billboard charts

                                  Comment


                                  • I don't think it has been revealed how or why the OCC went with RR as 'official for the 60s' in 2001. They apparently didn't do much research on the matter, or talk to someone with diehard chart knowledge.

                                    Alan Smith's excellent 50s/60s UK chart history article still had not been written as of 2001, I think the first version got published in Record Collector in 2005, so the OCC couldn't have used that info. After the OCC had made its decision to go with RR, Alan went to Dave McAleer who was then working at the OCC, and explained the situation to him. Dave told Alan that if the OCC had known about the info he had gathered, they most likely would NOT have chosen RR to represent the 60s. Alan told me this by email, I don't know if it's public knowledge, and I hope I don't get Dave in trouble, ha.

                                    RR might have been chosen as the 'official 60s chart' by the OCC in 2001 because they had 50 chart positions each week (which is apparently the reason that Guinness went with RR), but I don't think I've ever heard or read that for sure. The story the OCC gives out now is that RR was the precursor to the 'official' charts started in Feb 1969, as RR was 'the industry chart' prior to the BMRB/BARS industry chart.

                                    Well, we can argue that all night long. RR did not start out as an industry music paper or chart, it was actually an anti-industry music paper/chart, published for independent record shops not tied to any record label. They may have drifted over to eventually becoming 'the industry music paper' after Billboard infused them with lots of cash in 1966. But guess what? The RR chart was compiled no differently than any of the other charts, calculated from an average of their reporting record shop charts, not total sales. The worst thing about RR was that it sampled the smallest number of record shops, and forced tie breakers BASED ON LAST WEEKS CHART INFO, totally bogus. Not to mention it was the least followed, least known chart of the 60s.

                                    But would NME or MM have given the OCC the rights to make them 'official for the 60s' in 2001? Probably, since they both ceased their own charts in 1988.

                                    No, I don't expect the OCC to ever come around. If they truly cared about 60s UK chart history, they would have spent the time and effort years/decades ago to do what Brian is doing now. But for the OCC today, it just doesn't matter, all the 60s charts are 'approximately' the same, RR is good enough, it's too late to change, ugh...

                                    Comment


                                    • What really boils my blood is the OCC previously stating something like "NME was the chart of the 50s. When the RR chart began in March 1960, it then took over as the official industry chart." Don't know if that bogus language is still in place on the OCC website or not.

                                      Likewise, "RR is now widely accepted as the 'official' chart of the 60s." Which goes to show if you repeat something often enough, everyone will believe it, regardless of the truth.

                                      But yeah, the only useful thing about RR is that it gave us 50 chart positions over 4 years when the other charts did not. And that's good!

                                      Comment


                                      • Greetings Pop Pickers !

                                        There are 11 differences this week in chart positions between the BBC Chart Top 20 and The Ultimate Averaged Chart Top 20.

                                        Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending March 19th 1960.

                                        The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending March 19th 1960 NME RM MM DISC RR Total
                                        Last This The Sound Survey Stores 80 60 38 50 30 Points
                                        Week Week The Top 30 Singles Chart BBC TOP 30 Scored
                                        2 1 Running Bear - Johnny Preston 1 1 1 1 1 1 7740
                                        1 2 Poor Me - Adam Faith 2 2 2 2 2 5 7392
                                        3 3 Delaware - Perry Como 3 3 3 3 3 3 7224
                                        12 4 Theme From 'A Summer Place' - Percy Faith 5= 4 5 4 12 7 6416
                                        5 5 Why - Anthony Newley 7 7 7 7 6 2 6392
                                        9 6 You Got What It Takes - Marv Johnson 4 5 4 6 9 10 6380
                                        11 7 Be Mine - Lance Fortune 8 9 5 8 7 4 6204
                                        4 8 On A Slow Boat To China - Emile Ford and The Checkmates 5= 8 8 5 4 11 6158
                                        7 9 Pretty Blue Eyes - Craig Douglas 9 12 9 9 8 8 5516
                                        6 10 A Voice In The Wilderness - Cliff Richard 10 13 11 11 5 6 5450
                                        15 11 What In The World's Come Over You - Jack Scott 11 6 10 10 16 17 5228
                                        10 12 Summer Set - Mr. Acker Bilk 12 10 13 12 10 9 5192
                                        14 13 Who Could Be Bluer - Jerry Lordan 13 14 16 13 13 18 4234
                                        8 14 Way Down Yonder In New Orleans - Freddy Cannon 14 15 19 11 12 3306
                                        19 15 Hit And Miss -The John Barry Seven 15= 21 12 14 20 3120
                                        16 16 Royal Event - Russ Conway 20= 18 19 17 15 2940
                                        21 17 Colette - Billy Fury 19 19 18 16 14 2820
                                        25 18 Fings Ain't Wot They Used To Be - Max Bygraves 15= 11 15 23 2800
                                        NEW 19 Handy Man - Jimmy Jones 17 16 17 15 29 2708
                                        NEW 20 Beatnik Fly - Johnny and The Hurricanes 18 22 14 14 26 2536
                                        20 21 Looking High High High - Bryan Johnson 20 20 19 25 2078
                                        26 22 Wild One - Bobby Rydell 20= 17 20 24 1990
                                        18 23 Harbour Lights - The Platters 27 18 18 19 1824
                                        13 24 Beyond The Sea (La Mer) - Bobby Darin 23 15 21 1740
                                        NEW 25 Country Boy - Fats Domino 25 17 1012
                                        17 26 Bonnie Came Back - Duane Eddy 28 20 27 910
                                        24 27 Let It Be Me - The Everly Brothers 30 13 620
                                        27 28 Darktown Strutters' Ball - Joe Brown 24 560
                                        NEW 29 My Heart - Gene Vincent 16 450
                                        22 30 California Here I Come - Freddy Cannon 26 400
                                        Misty - Johnny Mathis 22 270
                                        Teen Angel - Mark Dinning 29 160
                                        Starry Eyed - Michael Holliday 28 90
                                        Johnny Rocco - Marty Wilde 30 30
                                        The Record Mirror Chart Re-Calculated, Re-Worked, Extended

                                        The Way It Was Meant To Be

                                        Comment


                                        • Chart Commentary

                                          To exemplify the above conversations and just indicate how out of touch RR was take a close look at this chart. If you take the highest chart position and the lowest chart position between NME, RM, MM, Disc, and then take a look at the RR chart position you will see how often it falls outwith the highest and lowest parameters of the other 4 bigger sample charts.

                                          As an example, 'Poor Me', 2, 2, 2, 2, on NME, RM, MM, Disc, RR 5. 'Why', 7, 7, 7, 6, and RR 2.

                                          This is the extreme example, granted, but RR still falls outwith their scope on so many occasions above. At a glance around 10 occasions in the Top 20.

                                          'Nuff said !



                                          The Record Mirror Chart Re-Calculated, Re-Worked, Extended

                                          The Way It Was Meant To Be

                                          Comment


                                          • I suspect that if RR had published their chart untied it would have been apparent what a small sample they were using, and that the bottom 20 would have had multiple ties. So yes they alone carried positions 31-50, but how reliable was that section at this time?

                                            Comment


                                            • Originally posted by RokinRobinOfLocksley View Post
                                              What really boils my blood is the OCC previously stating something like "NME was the chart of the 50s. When the RR chart began in March 1960, it then took over as the official industry chart." Don't know if that bogus language is still in place on the OCC website or not.

                                              Likewise, "RR is now widely accepted as the 'official' chart of the 60s." Which goes to show if you repeat something often enough, everyone will believe it, regardless of the truth.

                                              But yeah, the only useful thing about RR is that it gave us 50 chart positions over 4 years when the other charts did not. And that's good!
                                              I believe the early charts of RR were again not really relevant to the music scene. However when Record Mirror switched over to the RR chart, because it was a high circulation paper it would have given the chart legitimacy and make it well known. Having looked at the earlier chart books especially Rock File, they are using the top 50, but quote Record Mirror as the source. Before moving over to RR when BMRB take over.
                                              So there was a trend already to use RR, even in books that used only the top 20 charts!
                                              By 2001 lots of British Hit Singles books had been published, all containing the charts of RR. I can't see the OCC turning it's back on this legacy and using either NME or Melody Maker to 50 or 30's as the "official" charts of the 1960-68 period regardless of any research showing RR charts as crap.
                                              Education for anyone aged 12 to 16 has made a mess of the world!

                                              Comment


                                              • With such a low number of shops taking part it would have been easier for the Retailer to ask them for actual record sales figures. All they needed was a full list of records and a box for the amount sold. The dealer would have just put in the number and send it back. I dare say you wouldn't get many ties unlike a point system, which just gives 50 points for the top and one for the bottom. But one shop might have ten at 50 and another 2 sold for two different records. With points the same and tied, sales a clear winner.
                                                Imagine the discussions we would be having now if Retailer had produced a sales chart!
                                                Education for anyone aged 12 to 16 has made a mess of the world!

                                                Comment


                                                • I grind my teeth as I admit it, but the RR charts are indeed here to stay. All boats have sailed in respect of the OCC considering any other chart now. To change now would be tantamount to admitting they were wrong up to now so that isn't going to happen.

                                                  Splodj's point above is correct about dubiety over the accuracy of the Top 50 bottom 20. Even when the BMRB chart took over the BBC only referred to the Top 30 because even that 'sales chart' was considered suspect in positions below that.
                                                  The Record Mirror Chart Re-Calculated, Re-Worked, Extended

                                                  The Way It Was Meant To Be

                                                  Comment


                                                  • Originally posted by Graham76man View Post
                                                    With such a low number of shops taking part it would have been easier for the Retailer to ask them for actual record sales figures. All they needed was a full list of records and a box for the amount sold. The dealer would have just put in the number and send it back. I dare say you wouldn't get many ties unlike a point system, which just gives 50 points for the top and one for the bottom. But one shop might have ten at 50 and another 2 sold for two different records. With points the same and tied, sales a clear winner.
                                                    Imagine the discussions we would be having now if Retailer had produced a sales chart!
                                                    But, the BMRB chart which remember was a 'sales chart' was littered with ties during 1969, even as high as the #4 position, something which should have been nigh impossible in a sales chart versus point chart like Graham said.

                                                    Something was very wrong to allow that, so probably that supports Alan Smith and Dave Taylor's view that during that time the BMRB were only receiving a mere fraction of the sales diaries from stores to compile the chart.
                                                    The Record Mirror Chart Re-Calculated, Re-Worked, Extended

                                                    The Way It Was Meant To Be

                                                    Comment

                                                    Working...
                                                    X