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The Ultimate Averaged Chart - The BBC Chart Re-Imagined

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  • It's very clear that when the BMRB took over they had little idea of how to do the charts. The system they had in place wasn't up to scratch and staff probably not trained to do the job. It took them a while to sort it out. A year later they had ironed out most of the problems. Though I discovered they made the odd error. Such as mixing up the sales of the Archies follow up single Jingle Jangle with Sugar Sugar!
    I have added a comment on 45 Cat entry for Jingle Jangle. So check that out.
    The 60's postal system wasn't that good. So returns from shops came back late. It could be that some shops were lazy about sending them in. Returns might have been in a bad state to use. Filled in poorly with some shops only sending back returns for top 50 records, not everything and a host of other problems. It would be interesting to see if any of the returning shops were dropped from the panel of shops during the early days of BMRB. I suspect they changed quite a few.
    It's likely that many of the charts when they started them was a mess and not very good.
    You only have to compare the last chart of the Missing Charts book with that of the first NME chart to see that it wasn't very good.
    Education for anyone aged 12 to 16 has made a mess of the world!

    Comment


    • I second that Brian. The first top 50 I trusted was Melody Makers from september 62. Alas, they cut down the publishing to 30 in march 67 caused by suspicions of hyping.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by MrTibbs View Post

        Splodj's point above is correct about dubiety over the accuracy of the Top 50 bottom 20. Even when the BMRB chart took over the BBC only referred to the Top 30 because even that 'sales chart' was considered suspect in positions below that.
        The woman from BMRB explained the reason for records below 30 were problematic. She said that records sell in high numbers the higher up the charts, but after 30 they are all selling the same numbers.
        In which case you can jump up the chart 15 places selling one more copy than you did last week! Or fall 15 selling one less than the week before.
        Another reason was that hypers could buy a record in between 50 and 31 due to the low numbers.

        Education for anyone aged 12 to 16 has made a mess of the world!

        Comment


        • That makes sense to me. If you look at positions 31 to 50 week on week you could actually see that pattern taking place. The chart was really fickle in those positions.
          The Ultimate Averaged Chart. The Definitive Chart Reflecting The Fifties and Sixties.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Graham76man View Post
            The 60's postal system wasn't that good.
            But something I found interesting about the Daily Mirror article on the MM chart in 1964 is that they still had Sunday deliveries then. So MM started counting the returns from their first mailbag on Sunday, then on Monday morning more returns arrived and they counted those. I reckon that by Monday lunchtime compilation of the MM chart was fairly advanced while NME were still phoning round the shops.

            Regarding the lower positions, one thing I've always wondered about is that period when the commercial stations had the same Top 10 as the BBC chart but a different 11-40. Did the BBC goof in signing a contract that said they had exclusive broadcast rights to the Top 40 but omitted to add "and any part thereof"?

            Comment


            • There was a BBC documentary about this Pop Charts Britannia: 60 Years of the Top 10, but it's not currently available to watch. Neil Fox I remember talks about a loop hall in the contract that allowed them the top ten only.

              The post system - The advantage though on a points based system is that it doesn't matter how many returns you get by post as each shop only gets 50 points. However a sales based system is more critical on the returns. To many returns from small shops and not enough from big shops can throw the chart out by miles. I should imagine the smaller sized shop could make the return out quicker than a big store.
              Education for anyone aged 12 to 16 has made a mess of the world!

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Splodj View Post

                But something I found interesting about the Daily Mirror article on the MM chart in 1964 is that they still had Sunday deliveries then. So MM started counting the returns from their first mailbag on Sunday, then on Monday morning more returns arrived and they counted those. I reckon that by Monday lunchtime compilation of the MM chart was fairly advanced while NME were still phoning round the shops.

                Regarding the lower positions, one thing I've always wondered about is that period when the commercial stations had the same Top 10 as the BBC chart but a different 11-40. Did the BBC goof in signing a contract that said they had exclusive broadcast rights to the Top 40 but omitted to add "and any part thereof"?
                When did Sunday deliveries cease? I know the BMRB had to change the chart sales week in late 1974 from a Monday to Saturday to a Saturday to Friday when Sunday collections ceased. This was done to ensure enough diaries arrived on time on a Monday morning. It was 1979 before the chart sales week returned back to a Monday to Friday.

                I remember a period in 1994/95 when the top 10 on commercial stations was being announced slightly ahead of the Radio 1 countdown but the BBC did something to get that to cease. Possibly they either signed a new contract with CIN or perhaps enforced something that was already in place.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Graham76man View Post
                  There was a BBC documentary about this Pop Charts Britannia: 60 Years of the Top 10, but it's not currently available to watch.
                  This is an audio of 'Pop Charts Britannia', but I don't know if it is the programme you mean ...
                  https://www.mixcloud.com/peteseaton/...k-of-the-pops/

                  As Saturday was the day of largest sales it does seem best to have had it as the final survey day, particularly as by ending on Friday you only had one day for the new releases (when they came out on a Friday).

                  Comment


                  • That is part of the show but it extended nearly up to the present, just missing out on the introduction of streaming. And the whole thing was a TV show not a radio or audio broadcast. I'm surprised it's not on i-player as it was only repeated a few weeks ago on BBC Four! James Masterton features in it.
                    Education for anyone aged 12 to 16 has made a mess of the world!

                    Comment


                    • Greetings Pop Pickers !

                      There are 13 differences this week in chart positions between the BBC Chart Top 20 and The Ultimate Averaged Chart Top 20.

                      Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending March 26th 1960.

                      The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending March 26th 1960 NME RM MM DISC RR Total
                      Last This The Sound Survey Stores 80 60 38 50 30 Points
                      Week Week The Top 30 Singles Chart BBC TOP 30 Scored
                      1 1 Running Bear - Johnny Preston 1 2 2 1 1 1 7600
                      NEW 2 My Old Man's A Dustman - Lonnie Donegan 2 1 1 2 3 5 7482
                      3 3 Delaware - Perry Como 3 3 3 3 2 3 7274
                      2 4 Poor Me - Adam Faith 4 4 4 4 5 4 6916
                      4 5 Theme From 'A Summer Place' - Percy Faith 5 5 5 5 4 2 6848
                      6 6 You Got What It Takes - Marv Johnson 7 6 6 8 8 11 6124
                      11 7 What In The World's Come Over You - Jack Scott 6 7 7 6 6 19 5920
                      5 8 Why - Anthony Newley 8 11 8 10 7 10 5608
                      NEW 9 Fall In Love With You / Willie And The Hand Jive - Cliff Richard 10 12 9 7 17 6 5202
                      8 10 On A Slow Boat To China - Emile Ford and The Checkmates 9 10 10 9 12 16 5176
                      7 11 Be Mine - Lance Fortune 11 17 11 11 11 12 4650
                      18 12 Fings Ain't Wot They Used To Be - Max Bygraves 14 8 14 15 8 4158
                      10 13 A Voice In The Wilderness - Cliff Richard 12 19 13 12 10 25 3992
                      20 14 Beatnik Fly - Johnny and The Hurricanes 13 9 12 14 17 3966
                      13 15 Who Could Be Bluer - Jerry Lordan 15 20 15 17 9 22 3742
                      9 16 Pretty Blue Eyes - Craig Douglas 17 18 18 16 15 14 3700
                      NEW 17 Do You Mind - Anthony Newley 18 14 16 19 15 3196
                      19 18 Handy Man - Jimmy Jones 16 15 17 13 20 3134
                      22 19 Wild One - Bobby Rydell 16 20 20 7 2998
                      12 20 Summer Set - Mr. Acker Bilk 19 13 16 13 2730
                      17 21 Colette - Billy Fury 22 18 18 9 2524
                      15 22 Hit And Miss - The John Barry Seven 20 23 19 14 21 2510
                      14 23 Way Down Yonder In New Orleans - Freddy Cannon 24 13 23 1700
                      16 24 Royal Event - Russ Conway 26 19 28 1090
                      23 25 Harbour Lights - The Platters 30 20 630
                      29 26 My Heart - Gene Vincent 29 18 550
                      25 27 Country Boy - Fats Domino 25 480
                      21 28 Looking High High High - Bryan Johnson 28 26 390
                      24 29 Beyond The Sea (La Mer) - Bobby Darin 27 320
                      RE 30 Lucky Devil - Frank Ifield 24 210
                      Willie And The Hand Jive - Cliff Richard 21
                      What Do You Want - Adam Faith 27 120
                      Valentino - Connie Francis 29 60
                      Bonnie Came Back - Duane Eddy 30 30
                      Last edited by MrTibbs; Fri December 11, 2020, 22:27. Reason: .
                      The Ultimate Averaged Chart. The Definitive Chart Reflecting The Fifties and Sixties.

                      Comment


                      • Chart Commentary

                        Lonnie Donegan crashes in at #2 with a song I can remember nearly everybody singing back in the day.

                        The Ultimate Averaged Chart. The Definitive Chart Reflecting The Fifties and Sixties.

                        Comment


                        • I believe there was a bit of controversy between the NME and Cliff Richard at the time. It's believed the NME chart was adjusted to give lower positions in the chart for Cliff and having looked at all the charts since January the NME generally does put Cliff's record lower than other charts, as shown by the example of the new record at nine, even lower than the average chart.
                          Education for anyone aged 12 to 16 has made a mess of the world!

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Graham76man View Post
                            I believe there was a bit of controversy between the NME and Cliff Richard at the time. It's believed the NME chart was adjusted to give lower positions in the chart for Cliff and having looked at all the charts since January the NME generally does put Cliff's record lower than other charts, as shown by the example of the new record at nine, even lower than the average chart.
                            That might have been due to NME splitting sides on a lot of his discs. Both sides of the above single for example charted separately on NME
                            The Ultimate Averaged Chart. The Definitive Chart Reflecting The Fifties and Sixties.

                            Comment


                            • Didn't Cliff mention it on the interview the other week!
                              Education for anyone aged 12 to 16 has made a mess of the world!

                              Comment


                              • For some reason I thought 'My Old Man's A Dustman' had entered the RR chart at #1. Obviously not.

                                Comment


                                • Nope just NME and RM Robbie, the two big charts at the time in respect of store returns, although NME would lose their crown to MM in July pushing RM to third.
                                  The Ultimate Averaged Chart. The Definitive Chart Reflecting The Fifties and Sixties.

                                  Comment


                                  • Greetings Pop Pickers !

                                    There are only 4 differences this week in chart positions between the BBC Chart Top 20 and The Ultimate Averaged Chart Top 20.

                                    Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending April 2nd 1960.

                                    The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending April 2nd 1960 NME RM MM DISC RR Total
                                    Last This The Sound Survey Stores 80 60 38 50 30 Points
                                    Week Week The Top 30 Singles Chart BBC TOP 30 Scored
                                    2 1 My Old Man's A Dustman - Lonnie Donegan 1 1 1 1 1 1 7740
                                    1 2 Running Bear - Johnny Preston 2 3 2 2 3 2 7352
                                    9 3 Fall In Love With You / Willie And The Hand Jive - Cliff Richard 3 4 3 3 5 6 6954
                                    5 4 Theme From 'A Summer Place' - Percy Faith 4= 5 4 5 4 3 6878
                                    3 5 Delaware - Perry Como 4= 6 5 4 2 4 6846
                                    12 6 Fings Ain't Wot They Used To Be - Max Bygraves 7 2 7 8 10 7 6404
                                    7 7 What In The World's Come Over You - Jack Scott 6 7 6 6 6 14 6130
                                    4 8 Poor Me - Adam Faith 8 10 8 9 7 5 5876
                                    6 9 You Got What It Takes - Marv Johnson 9 8 11 10 8 9 5648
                                    18 10 Handy Man - Jimmy Jones 10 9 9 7 13 18 5282
                                    14 11 Beatnik Fly - Johnny and The Hurricanes 11 12 12 12 9 13 5022
                                    17 12 Do You Mind - Anthony Newley 12 11 10 11 16 11 4970
                                    10 13 On A Slow Boat To China - Emile Ford and The Checkmates 13 16 16 14 11 10 4376
                                    8 14 Why - Anthony Newley 14 15 16 13 15 8 4354
                                    15 15 Who Could Be Bluer - Jerry Lordan 15= 19 15 16 12 20 3770
                                    19 16 Wild One - Bobby Rydell 15= 13 13 15 12 3698
                                    22 17 Hit And Miss - The John Barry Seven 17 18 14 20 14 25 3508
                                    20 18 Summer Set - Mr. Acker Bilk 18 14 20 17 15 3032
                                    11 19 Be Mine - Lance Fortune 19 17 18 17 16 2764
                                    NEW 20 Clementine - Bobby Darin 20 20 19 19 24 2266
                                    16 21 Pretty Blue Eyes - Craig Douglas 24 18 19 1570
                                    NEW 22 He'll Have To Go - Jim Reeves 21 20 1350
                                    28 23 Looking High High High - Bryan Johnson 26 19 22 1270
                                    21 24 Colette - Billy Fury 25 17 900
                                    27 25 Country Boy - Fats Domino 23 28 730
                                    13 26 A Voice In The Wilderness - Cliff Richard 29 21 460
                                    NEW 27 Stairway To Heaven - Neil Sedaka 27 320
                                    NEW 28 Footsteps - Steve Lawrence 28 240
                                    23 29 Way Down Yonder In New Orleans - Freddy Cannon 23 240
                                    RE 30 Let It Be Me - The Everly Brothers 26 150
                                    Willie And The Hand Jive - Cliff Richard 22 18
                                    My Heart - Gene Vincent 30 29 140
                                    Beyond The Sea (La Mer) - Bobby Darin 27 120
                                    Johnny Rocco - Marty Wilde 30 30
                                    The Ultimate Averaged Chart. The Definitive Chart Reflecting The Fifties and Sixties.

                                    Comment


                                    • Chart Commentary

                                      All charts agree on #1 this week. Lonnie Donegan reigns supreme but it will be his last #1.
                                      The charts though are divided though immediately below that position with 3 records competing for the #2 and #3 positions.

                                      Of the new entries this week Neil Sedaka and Steve Lawrence are heading for the Top Ten, but this time Bobby Darin will fall short.
                                      Jim Reeves will be around for weeks and weeks and weeks without reaching the Top Ten.
                                      The Ultimate Averaged Chart. The Definitive Chart Reflecting The Fifties and Sixties.

                                      Comment


                                      • Originally posted by MrTibbs View Post
                                        Nope just NME and RM Robbie, the two big charts at the time in respect of store returns, although NME would lose their crown to MM in July pushing RM to third.
                                        And I was very upset with that as it would be his only entry at the top. Ah well...
                                        http://thechartbook.co.uk - for the latest are best chart book - By Decade!
                                        Now including NME, Record Mirror and Melody Maker from the UK and some Billboard charts

                                        Comment


                                        • Originally posted by MrTibbs View Post
                                          Nope just NME and RM Robbie, the two big charts at the time in respect of store returns, although NME would lose their crown to MM in July pushing RM to third.
                                          I've just realised I got it wrong and was thinking of the RM charts and the Tony Jasper Top 20 Charts book which I bought back in 1976. All these different charts confuse me! Not that it takes much to confuse me these days...

                                          Comment


                                          • lol, at Lonnie and Robbie's comments Not to worry Lonnie at least has more hits in the bag to come to compensate.
                                            The Ultimate Averaged Chart. The Definitive Chart Reflecting The Fifties and Sixties.

                                            Comment


                                            • Originally posted by Robbie View Post
                                              the Tony Jasper Top 20 Charts book which I bought back in 1976.
                                              I notice that the charts in it are copyright Billboard Ltd./BMRB. I wonder if this means that Billboard Ltd. inherited the rights to the Record Mirror back catalogue.

                                              (It would have shown uncharacteristic fleet of foot for RR to put anything straight in at number one!)

                                              Comment


                                              • Interesting. The 1955-1982 Jasper book copyright is:

                                                Copyright (c) 1976,1978,1979 and 1983 Top Twenty
                                                Music and Video Week/BRMB
                                                Supporting text, additional material and layout
                                                copyright (c) 1976, 1978, 1979 and 1983 Tony Jasper.

                                                While the 1955-1993 Jasper book is:

                                                Copyright (c) 1994 (Top Twenty) Music Week/BRMB/Gallup/CNI.
                                                Supporting text, additional material and layout
                                                copyright (c) 1976, 1978, 1979, 1983, 1984, 1986, 1988, 1991
                                                and 1994 Tony Jasper

                                                Note the typo error in both, BRMB instead of BMRB, ugh...

                                                Comment


                                                • Greetings Pop Pickers !

                                                  There are 13 differences this week in chart positions between the BBC Chart Top 20 and The Ultimate Averaged Chart Top 20.

                                                  Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending April 9th 1960.

                                                  The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending April 9th 1960 NME RM MM DISC RR Total
                                                  Last This The Sound Survey Stores 80 60 38 50 30 Points
                                                  Week Week The Top 30 Singles Chart BBC TOP 30 Scored
                                                  1 1 My Old Man's A Dustman - Lonnie Donegan 1 1 1 1 1 1 7740
                                                  3 2 Fall In Love With You - Cliff Richard 2 2 2 2 2 3 7452
                                                  2 3 Running Bear - Johnny Preston 3 6 4 3 3 4 6894
                                                  NEW 4 Stuck On You - Elvis Presley 5 3 5 4 6 10 6706
                                                  10 5 Handy Man - Jimmy Jones 4 4 3 5 5 12 6698
                                                  4 6 Theme From 'A Summer Place' - Percy Faith 6 7 6 6 4 6 6470
                                                  6 7 Fings Ain't Wot They Used To Be - Max Bygraves 7 5 8 9 8 7 6166
                                                  12 8 Do You Mind - Anthony Newley 9= 8 7 10 12 2 5898
                                                  5 9 Delaware - Perry Como 9= 13 10 7 7 5 5592
                                                  11 10 Beatnik Fly - Johnny and The Hurricanes 8 9 9 8 9 14 5564
                                                  9 11 You Got What It Takes - Marv Johnson 12 10 14 12 11 8 5112
                                                  7 12 What In The World's Come Over You - Jack Scott 11 11 11 11 13 11 5060
                                                  16 13 Wild One - Bobby Rydell 13 12 12 13 16 9 4754
                                                  8 14 Poor Me - Adam Faith 15 15 15 14 10 15 4416
                                                  20 15 Clementine - Bobby Darin 14 14 13 15 18 17 4118
                                                  13 16 On A Slow Boat To China - Emile Ford and The Checkmates 17= 20 20 19 14 18 3236
                                                  17 17 Hit And Miss - The John Barry Seven 16 27 16 17 15 13 3092
                                                  23 18 Looking High High High - Bryan Johnson 17= 26 17 16 19 21 2710
                                                  25 19 Country Boy - Fats Domino 19 16 18 20 25 2578
                                                  18 20 Summer Set - Mr. Acker Bilk 22 19 19 1800
                                                  19 21 Be Mine - Lance Fortune 19 20 24 1720
                                                  14 22 Why - Anthony Newley 25 18 16 1424
                                                  NEW 23 Sweet Nothin's - Brenda Lee 24 20 1220
                                                  22 24 He'll Have To Go - Jim Reeves 20 17 1120
                                                  15 25 Who Could Be Bluer - Jerry Lordan 29 17 28 950
                                                  27 26 Stairway To Heaven - Neil Sedaka 21 800
                                                  28 27 Footsteps - Steve Lawrence 23 640
                                                  24 28 Colette - Billy Fury 28 20 570
                                                  26 29 A Voice In The Wilderness - Cliff Richard 22 270
                                                  RE 30 Royal Event - Russ Conway 23 240
                                                  Willie And The Hand Jive - Cliff Richard 18
                                                  Bonnie Came Back - Duane Eddy 26 150
                                                  My Heart - Gene Vincent 30 29 140
                                                  Pretty Blue Eyes - Craig Douglas 27 120
                                                  Beyond The Sea (La Mer) - Bobby Darin 30 30
                                                  The Ultimate Averaged Chart. The Definitive Chart Reflecting The Fifties and Sixties.

                                                  Comment


                                                  • Chart Commentary

                                                    Elvis comes storming in at #4 but will fail to capture #1 this time around.
                                                    In too comes the first hit from 'Little Miss Dynamite' Brenda Lee to kick off her chart career.

                                                    Again though there are some massive differences in RR chart positions vs the other four.
                                                    The Ultimate Averaged Chart. The Definitive Chart Reflecting The Fifties and Sixties.

                                                    Comment

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