Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

The Ultimate Averaged Chart - The BBC Chart Re-Imagined

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • MrTibbs
    replied
    Originally posted by Splodj View Post
    In my view, it would depend on whether there were some strange positionings in the NME chart that need ironing out - as there were this year.
    I'm not convinced I should tamper with NME though Splodj as they did compile a chart and we are only assuming they used a reduced sample, so we have to accept it at face value as we do any chart of the time. If we were to accept the argument of 'strange positioning' then the same point could be made on any chart at any given time as there was always one a bit out of step with the others.

    All of these fifties charts continuing through the sixties to the BMRB period were highly suspect as to anything like accuracy. They couldn't be accurate given that all were points based on unsubstantiated and often flawed returns from stores. Add to that they all used different rules as to split sides, ties, EP's, etc to further complicate the matter.

    They were a product of their time and at best a really good guide as to what was most popular on any given week. BUT, 2 factors do support at least this. All of the charts although largely in slightly different order did agree on the same records being present at the upper end of the chart, and secondly by the averaging process (like the BBC and UAC). This ironed out inconsistencies in any given individual chart that was an outlier finding the middle ground agreed by the majority of other charts to give a more balanced chart to best represent this period in chart history.

    Leave a comment:


  • Splodj
    replied
    In my view, it would depend on whether there were some strange positionings in the NME chart that need ironing out - as there were this year.

    Leave a comment:


  • MrTibbs
    replied
    Originally posted by Splodj View Post
    I think it is more suitable for the Christmas week because normally there will be less movement in the chart than at other times. In particular, as there will not have been any recent new releases, new entries are unlikely. New entries, I suggest, are difficult to deal with effectively under this system.
    I think that is a relevant point actually and entirely consistent with the reasons given. My own viewpoint at this stage is that the mid point charts December 29th for MM and RM are a relatively good guesstimate in the absence of the real thing supported by slow chart movement for the end of year week anyway. Comments received from you guys thus far on this topic also seem to indicate a positive response to the exercise. I also must agree with Robin's thinking and logic that mid point charts are better than having nothing at all. They fill a necessary gap.

    But one swallow doth not a summer make. I'm way ahead in UAC compilation working on December 1957. The same situation is about to arrive in MM and RM not compiling an end of year chart. So I will repeat the exercise of compiling mid point charts here too and see if they too look a 'good fit' for the missing week.
    I will repeat this for non compiled charts at the end of 58 and 59 too.

    This will give us 4 years of a mid point chart to evaluate. This more robust overview of 4 sample years can then influence the decision on the validity of the exercise and whether to extend the process to the year end charts of the sixties.

    Keep on keeping on

    Leave a comment:


  • Splodj
    replied
    I think it is more suitable for the Christmas week because normally there will be less movement in the chart than at other times. In particular, as there will not have been any recent new releases, new entries are unlikely. New entries, I suggest, are difficult to deal with effectively under this system.

    Leave a comment:


  • RokinRobinOfLocksley
    replied
    Thanks Brian for the midpoint x 3 + 2 chart. I need to study it further, but at first look it does seem most meaningful to me.

    FYI for everybody, of course we can test this midpoint strategy for any 3 week period of any chart, not just missing Christmas charts. Just combine weeks 1 and 3 for a midpoint chart, and compare it to the actual week 2 chart. That will show you the validity of this option over skipping, freezing, or back freezing. Rock on !!

    Leave a comment:


  • kjell
    replied
    Seems to be several causes at work here. As has already been said the actual chart for this week is probably based on fewer returns than usual which affects the actual chart but not the constructed chart. The main problem mathematically with a constructed chart is that leaps and falls at the lower end have bigger changes than at the higher end. This has to do with smaller sales differences at the bottom and with the diffusion of info for records on the increase. In addition to that there’s the problem of which positions do new hits have in the non hit week and likewise falling down hits in the same week. I expected strange movements, but admittedly not that much difference between the actual chart and the constructed. My conclusion is that this way of constructing charts can be made when a week has no actual charts and that the positions of the week should be written in italics.

    Leave a comment:


  • MrTibbs
    replied
    Mid Point Chart - Week Ending December 29th 1956 NME MM RM Total
    Actual Stores 65 20 60 Points
    NME UAC Mid-Point Comparison Chart NME MM RM TOP 30 Scored
    1 1 Just Walking In The Rain - Johnnie Ray 1 1 1 4350
    2 2 Singing The Blues - Guy Mitchell 2 2 1 4265
    3 3 Green Door - Frankie Vaughan 2 3 3 4125
    3 4 St. Therese Of The Roses - Malcolm Vaughan 4 4 4 3915
    6 5 Cindy Oh Cindy - Eddie Fisher 5 4 6 3730
    9 6 Rip It Up - Bill Haley and His Comets 7 7 5 3600
    5 7 True Love - Bing Crosby and Grace Kelly 6 8 7 3525
    16 8 Hound Dog - Elvis Presley (A) 8 8 8 3335
    10 9 My Prayer - The Platters 11 6 8 3180
    12 10 A Woman In Love - Frankie Laine 9 11 10 3090
    17 11 Singing The Blues - Tommy Steele 12 10 10 2915
    11 12 Love Me Tender - Elvis Presley 12 13 12 2735
    7 13 Make It A Party - Winifred Atwell 10 14 14 2725
    22 14 Blue Moon - Elvis Presley 19 14 13 2200
    13 15 More - Jimmy Young 15 16 17 2180
    16 Rock Around The Clock - Bill Haley and His Comets 23 18 15 1740
    20 Rocking Through The Rye - Bill Haley and His Comets 23 16 16 1720
    15 18 When Mexico Gave Up The Rumba - Mitchell Torok 12 12 1615
    25 19 Blueberry Hill - Fats Domino 25 20 20 1270
    21 20 Two Different Worlds - Ronnie Hilton 17 19 1150
    8 21 Christmas Island - Dickie Valentine 16 975
    19 22 Friendly Persuasion - Pat Boone 17 910
    18 23 A House With Love In It - Vera Lynn 19 780
    23 The Green Door - Jim Lowe 18 780
    20 23 Cindy Oh Cindy - Tony Brent 19 780
    26 Sing With Shand - Jimmy Shand 19 720
    14 27 Moonlight Gambler - Frankie Laine 22 585
    30 28 Love Me As Though There Were No Tomorrow - Nat King Cole 26 20 545
    26 29 I Don't Care If The Sun Don't Shine - Elvis Presley (B) 26 325
    30 29 Rudy's Rock - Bill Haley and His Comets 26 325
    29 Lonnie Donegan Showcase (LP) - Lonnie Donegan 29 130
    23 Christmas And You - Dave King 30 65
    27 A Letter To A Soldier - Barbara Lyon 30 65
    24 Join In And Sing No 3 - The Johnston Brothers 0
    28 All Of You - Sammy Davis Jnr.

    Leave a comment:


  • MrTibbs
    replied
    Originally posted by RokinRobinOfLocksley View Post
    Brian, could you add the Dec 29 MM and RM midpoint charts to your NME midpoint chart posting above? It would be worth a look to compare all of them against each other. Cheers...
    Here is that chart Robin and guys.

    I am interested in hearing what outcome all you mathematicians and statisticians make of this chart and comparisons. (Maths and statistics are not my forte, I was always better at English and Arithmetic).
    The outcome is important as it will determine whether or not non compiled charts for other years will be converted in the same manner, or not.

    The first column relates to the actual compiled NME chart for 29th December (I certainly believe this could be a 'skeleton' chart given that quite a few records climbed back up the chart again on 5th January). The second column is the complimentary UAC average of all three mid-point averaged charts. Then side by side the NME, MM, RM, mid-point charts for comparison.

    Happy scrutinising Pop Pickers !

    Brian

    Leave a comment:


  • setg1
    replied
    On 22 January 1955, "Mr. Sandman" was a top 20 hit for four artists on the NME chart:

    9. Dickie Valentine
    11. The Four Aces
    12. The Chordettes
    16. Max Bygraves

    That was the only week the Max Bygraves version charted, the other three charted simultaneously in several other weeks. I had to check that one, as I knew the song had a lot of hit versions.

    Leave a comment:


  • MrTibbs
    replied
    No Robbie, on NME in 1955 (pre UAC era) 4 versions of Stranger In Paradise were in the Top 20 on 30th April simultaneously, a 5th version made it on 14th May although one of the previous versions had dropped out be then.
    The same year on 18th June 4 versions of Unchained Melody were simultaneously in the Top 20.
    So 4 simultaneously seems to be the record achieved by above 2 songs and Garden Of Eden (on UAC).

    Unless someone knows different

    Leave a comment:


  • Robbie
    replied
    Four versions of the same song in the top 20 plus two versions of Singing The Blues... is this the last (or only?) time four versions of the same song were in the top 20?

    Leave a comment:


  • MrTibbs
    replied
    The battle is over before it's even started with The Garden Of Eden as Frankie Vaughan leaps 11 places to #3 leaving the three other versions stranded in its wake in the lower quarter of the Top 20. That said it speaks volumes for the popularity of the song that 4 versions make the Top 20.

    Lonnie Donegan kicks off what will be his best ever year chart wise with a very high new entry at #13.

    On the UAC Guy Mitchell stops Tommy Steele's version of 'Singing' in its tracks preventing it from reaching the chart summit.

    Although differing in actual chart positions all three music paper charts agree on what the ten best selling singles are.

    Leave a comment:


  • MrTibbs
    replied
    Greetings Pop Pickers !

    Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending January 19th 1957

    Here are all '' the uppers, the downers, the just hanging 'arounders '

    The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending January 19th 1957 NME MM RM Total
    Last This The Sound Survey Stores 65 25 60 Points
    Week Week The Top 30 Singles Chart TOP 30 Scored
    1 1 Singing The Blues - Guy Mitchell 1 1 2 4440
    2 2 Singing The Blues - Tommy Steele 2 2 1 4410
    14 3 The Garden Of Eden - Frankie Vaughan 3 3 3 4200
    6 4 True Love - Bing Crosby and Grace Kelly 5 8 4 3885
    9 5 Friendly Persuasion - Pat Boone 4 6 6 3880
    3 6 Green Door - Frankie Vaughan 6 4 5 3860
    4 7 Just Walking In The Rain - Johnnie Ray 7 5 8 3590
    5 8 St. Therese Of The Roses - Malcolm Vaughan 8 7 7 3535
    7 9 Cindy Oh Cindy - Eddie Fisher 9 9 9 3300
    8 10 Hound Dog - Elvis Presley (A) 10 10 10 3150
    11 11 Blueberry Hill - Fats Domino 12 12 11 2910
    10 12 Rip It Up - Bill Haley and His Comets 11 13 14 2770
    NEW 13 Don't You Rock Me Daddy-O - Lonnie Donegan 13 14 12 2735
    13 14 Moonlight Gambler - Frankie Laine 16 11 13 2555
    15 15 Love Me Tender - Elvis Presley 15 19 15 2300
    12 16 The Garden Of Eden - Gary Miller 14 20 16 2280
    18 17 Blue Moon - Elvis Presley 17 17 17 2100
    23 18 Two Different Worlds - Ronnie Hilton 19 20 20 1715
    25 19 The Garden Of Eden - Dick James 23 20 18 1575
    NEW 20 The Garden Of Eden - Joe Valino 23 19 1240
    17 21 A Woman In Love - Frankie Laine 20 16 1090
    NEW 22 You Me And Us - Alma Cogan 18 845
    NEW 23 You Don't Owe Me A Thing / Look Homeward Angel - Johnnie Ray 21 650
    28 24 Ain't That A Shame - Pat Boone 22 585
    21 25 Don't Be Cruel - Elvis Presley (B) 15 400
    22 26 I'll Be Home - Pat Boone 25 390
    24 27 A House With Love In It - Vera Lynn 26 325
    19 28 Rock Around The Clock - Bill Haley and His Comets 18 325
    RE 29 See You Later Alligator - Bill Haley and His Comets 20 275
    20 30 When Mexico Gave Up The Rumba - Mitchell Torok 27 260
    16 More - Jimmy Young 28 195
    26 Rocking Through The Rye - Bill Haley and His Comets 29 130
    27 My Prayer - The Platters 30 65
    29 A Letter To A Soldier - Barbara Lyon
    30 Make It A Party - Winifred Atwell

    Leave a comment:


  • MrTibbs
    replied
    Originally posted by RokinRobinOfLocksley View Post
    Thanks Brian. I'd also suggest adding the actual NME chart with the 3 midpoint charts, so we can see all 4 up against each other. Cheerz...
    Sounds like a good idea to me

    Leave a comment:


  • RokinRobinOfLocksley
    replied
    Thanks Brian. I'd also suggest adding the actual NME chart with the 3 midpoint charts, so we can see all 4 up against each other. Cheerz...

    Leave a comment:


  • MrTibbs
    replied
    Originally posted by RokinRobinOfLocksley View Post
    Brian, could you add the Dec 29 MM and RM midpoint charts to your NME midpoint chart posting above? It would be worth a look to compare all of them against each other. Cheers...
    Yup no prob. Will do tomorrow Robin as working today I will do a chart featuring all 3 midpoint charts to see how the outcome looks

    Leave a comment:


  • RokinRobinOfLocksley
    replied
    Brian, could you add the Dec 29 MM and RM midpoint charts to your NME midpoint chart posting above? It would be worth a look to compare all of them against each other. Cheers...

    Leave a comment:


  • MrTibbs
    replied
    Originally posted by brian05 View Post
    12 Garden Of Eden - Gary Miller
    14 Garden Of Eden - Frankie Vaughan
    25 Garden Of Eden - Dick James

    How many Gardens of Eden were there?
    There's about to be a 4th Brian

    Leave a comment:


  • brian05
    replied
    12 Garden Of Eden - Gary Miller
    14 Garden Of Eden - Frankie Vaughan
    25 Garden Of Eden - Dick James

    How many Gardens of Eden were there?

    Leave a comment:


  • MrTibbs
    replied
    Originally posted by Splodj View Post
    All 3 charts agree that 'Hound Dog' is still in the Top 10, even with RM and MM placing 'Dont Be Cruel' in their 20. So it seems odd that in the NME-only week they put the combined record down at 16. Perhaps a quirk produced by low sampling.
    Yeah I agree I too think NME's 29th December chart was off the mark for whatever reason considering that a few singles climbed back up the chart the following week again.

    Leave a comment:


  • MrTibbs
    replied
    Originally posted by kingofskiffle View Post
    On the re-done 29 Dec, there are no columns to the right.... The text implies there should be.
    I've amended the text Lonnie for clarity. There was no missing column, it now reads the column in blue gives the averaged position.

    Leave a comment:


  • kingofskiffle
    replied
    On the re-done 29 Dec, there are no columns to the right.... The text implies there should be.

    Leave a comment:


  • Splodj
    replied
    All 3 charts agree that 'Hound Dog' is still in the Top 10, even with RM and MM placing 'Dont Be Cruel' in their 20. So it seems odd that in the NME-only week they put the combined record down at 16. Perhaps a quirk produced by low sampling.

    Leave a comment:


  • MrTibbs
    replied
    Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending January 12th 1957

    Here are all '' the uppers, the downers, the just hanging 'arounders '

    The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending January 12th 1957 NME MM RM Total
    Last This The Sound Survey Stores 65 25 60 Points
    Week Week The Top 30 Singles Chart TOP 30 Scored
    1 1 Singing The Blues - Guy Mitchell 2 1 1 4435
    5 2 Singing The Blues - Tommy Steele 1 2 2 4415
    3 3 Green Door - Frankie Vaughan 4 3 4 4075
    2 4 Just Walking In The Rain - Johnnie Ray 5 4 3 4045
    4 5 St. Therese Of The Roses - Malcolm Vaughan 3 5 5 4030
    7 6 True Love - Bing Crosby and Grace Kelly 6 7 6 3725
    6 7 Cindy Oh Cindy - Eddie Fisher 7 6 7 3625
    9 8 Hound Dog - Elvis Presley (A) 8 8 9 3390
    16 9 Friendly Persuasion - Pat Boone 9 9 8 3360
    8 10 Rip It Up - Bill Haley and The Comets 10 10 10 3150
    17 11 Blueberry Hill - Fats Domino 12 13 11 2885
    NEW 12 Garden Of Eden - Gary Miller 15 11 12 2680
    23 13 Moonlight Gambler - Frankie Laine 15 12 12 2655
    NEW 14 Garden Of Eden - Frankie Vaughan 11 18 14 2645
    11 15 Love Me Tender - Elvis Presley 13 14 15 2555
    21 16 More - Jimmy Young 18 15 16 2145
    10 17 A Woman In Love - Frankie Laine 14 20 20 2040
    15 18 Blue Moon - Elvis Presley (A) 17 19 1630
    20 19 Rock Around The Clock - Bill Haley and His Comets 26 15 16 1625
    19 20 When Mexico Gave Up The Rumba - Mitchell Torok 20 16 1615
    RE 21 Don't Be Cruel - Elvis Presley (B) 18 20 985
    RE 22 I'll Be Home - Pat Boone 19 780
    22 23 Two Different Worlds - Ronnie Hilton 21 650
    18 24 A House With Love In It - Vera Lynn 22 585
    NEW 25 Garden Of Eden - Dick James 23 520
    14 26 Rocking Through The Rye - Bill Haley and His Comets 24 455
    12 27 My Prayer - The Platters 15 400
    RE 28 Ain't That A Shame - Pat Boone 25 390
    28 29 A Letter To A Soldier - Barbara Lyon 27 260
    13 30 Make It A Party - Winifred Atwell 28 195
    Red Light Green Light - Mitchell Torok 29 130
    Bring A Little Water Sylvie / Dead Or Alive - Lonnie Donegan 30 65
    24 Sing With Shand - Jimmy Shand
    25 Cindy Oh Cindy - Tony Brent
    25 Christmas Island - Dickie Valentine
    27 Rudy's Rock - Bill Haley and His Comets
    29 Friendly Persuasion - The Four Aces
    30 I Don't Care If The Sun Don't Shine - Elvis Presley (B)

    Leave a comment:


  • MrTibbs
    replied
    As promised here is the 'experimental' NME chart for 29th December 1956 as if it had not been compiled and an average had been taken from the weeks of 22nd December and 5th January as I did with RM and MM.

    The column on the left gives the actual NME chart for 29th December and the positions in blue give the 'estimated' averaged position. As you can see lots of tied positions.

    Let me know what you think !

    NME Averaged Chart - Week Ending December 29th 1956
    Actual Aver The Sound Survey Stores
    Week Week The Top 25 Singles Chart
    1 1 Just Walking In The Rain - Johnnie Ray
    3 2 Green Door - Frankie Vaughan
    2 2 Singing The Blues - Guy Mitchell
    3 4 St. Theresa Of The Roses - Malcolm Vaughan
    6 5 Cindy Oh Cindy - Eddie Fisher
    5 6 True Love - Bing Crosby and Grace Kelly
    9 7 Rip It Up - Bill Haley and His Comets
    16 8 Hound Dog - Elvis Presley
    12 9 A Woman In Love - Frankie Laine
    7 10 Make It A Party - Winifred Atwell
    10 11 My Prayer - The Platters
    15 12 When Mexico Gave Up the Rhumba - Mitchell Torok
    11 12 Love Me Tender - Elvis Presley
    17 12 Singing The Blues - Tommy Steele
    13 15 More - Jimmy Young
    8 16 Christmas Island - Dickie Valentine
    21 17 Two Different Worlds - Ronnie Hilton
    19 17 Friendly Persuasion - Pat Boone
    20 19 Cindy Oh Cindy - Tony Brent
    22 19 Blue Moon - Elvis Presley (A)
    18 19 A House With Love In It - Vera Lynn
    14 22 Moonlight Gambler - Frankie Laine
    23 Rock Around The Clock - Bill Haley and His Comets
    23 Rockin' Through The Rye - Bill Haley and His Comets
    25 25 Blueberry Hill - Fats Domino
    30 26 Love Me As Though There Were No Tomorrow - Nat King Cole
    26 26 I Don't Care If The Sun Don't Shine - Elvis Presley (B)
    30 26 Rudy's Rock - Bill Haley and His Comets
    29 29 Lonnie Donegan Showcase (LP) - Lonnie Donegan
    23 30 Christmas And You - Dave King
    27 30 A Letter To A Soldier - Barbara Lyon
    24 Join In And Sing No 3 - The Johnston Brothers
    28 All Of You - Sammy Davis Jnr.

    Leave a comment:

Working...
X