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The Ultimate Averaged Chart - The BBC Chart Re-Imagined

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  • It was a real shame about Tony Jasper's book. It was the first book of it's kind back in 1976 to give a weekly listing of any chart to date but it missed a trick. I don't know if it had been rushed out, or just not checked carefully enough, but as you know by now it was riddled with errors.

    When dealing with thousands and thousands of numbers I know (from first hand experience) you need to take special care as it is easy to erroneously type in a wrong number and the odd typo could have been forgiven, but, unfortunately the book had so many errors it couldn't be completely trusted to be taken seriously as an accurate reference book. A pity as it was a great opportunity wasted.

    I was so frustrated with it that I actually took mine down to the newspaper library (at Colindale at that time) and went through every weekly RM chart correcting the book as I went along.
    The Record Mirror Singles Chart 1954 - 1961 Revised And Extended

    The Biggest Chart Of The Time

    Comment


    • Originally posted by RokinRobinOfLocksley View Post
      Note the typo error in both, BRMB instead of BMRB, ugh...
      BRMB was the name of the commercial radio station in Birmingham; they should have claimed their royalties!

      Comment


      • At least Tony Jasper made the right choice for the 1960-62 period when he could have gone with either RM or RR.

        Comment


        • Just to summarize from my earlier post (# 74 on Alan Smith's UK Chart History thread "updated chart history"), 3 pre-Guinness chart books series used the following charts for their history before Feb 1969:

          --Rock File, 5 books beginning 1972:
          NME 1955-58
          RM 1958-62
          RR 1962-69

          --Tony Jasper, 9 books beginning 1976:
          NME none
          RM 1955-62
          RR 1962-69

          --Record Hits, 2 books beginning June 1977:
          NME 1954-55
          RM 1956-62
          RR 1962-69

          All 3 different (and different from Guinness/'official'), though all 3 have in common RM 1958-62 and RR 1962-69.

          I've read somewhere that NME wouldn't grant their chart rights to one or more books, as NME was planning to print their own chart books, which they eventually did beginning in 1992 (2 each of singles and albums). So it could have been that the above 3 books series wanted to use NME for more chart history, but NME wouldn't allow it. And/or MM.

          I'll throw these in for the newbie readers amongst us:

          --Guinness, 19 editions beginning Nov 1977 to 2006:
          NME 1952-1960
          RR 1960-1969

          --Official Charts, 50s/60s charts declared 'official' in/after 2001:
          same as Guinness

          Comment


          • My preference would have been the BBC chart; even with all the warts it is better than any individual music paper and represents what millions saw and heard as 'the' chart at the time.

            If reduced to choosing between music papers, I think NME then MM from April 62. If MM could have included the 31-50s that were calculated but not published all the better.

            Comment


            • Interesting.

              I would go with RM from January 56 as NME had a handful of dodgy #1's in the late fifties that never topped any other chart, Kay Starr, Tommy Edwards, Vic Damone, Jane Morgan to name a few.

              Then MM from July 1960 when it upped its sample to 110, making it the biggest sample of all the papers and the MM invested heavily in its chart service from then. MM was also from then the only paper to include Northern Ireland in its sample.

              MM was also the chart carried by most daily newspapers.
              The Record Mirror Singles Chart 1954 - 1961 Revised And Extended

              The Biggest Chart Of The Time

              Comment


              • Greetings Pop Pickers !

                There are 9 differences this week in chart positions between the BBC Chart Top 20 and The Ultimate Averaged Chart Top 20.

                Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending April 16th 1960.

                The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending April 16th 1960 NME RM MM DISC RR Total
                Last This The Sound Survey Stores 80 60 38 50 30 Points
                Week Week The Top 30 Singles Chart BBC TOP 30 Scored
                1 1 My Old Man's A Dustman - Lonnie Donegan 1 1 1 2 1 1 7702
                4 2 Stuck On You - Elvis Presley 2 2 2 1 2 6 7400
                2 3 Fall In Love With You / Willie And The Hand Jive - Cliff Richard 3 3 3 3 3 2 7254
                5 4 Handy Man - Jimmy Jones 4 4 4 4 4 3 6996
                8 5 Do You Mind - Anthony Newley 5 5 5 5 6 4 6688
                6 6 Theme From 'A Summer Place' - Percy Faith 6 7 7 6 5 7 6330
                7 7 Fings Ain't Wot They Used To Be - Max Bygraves 7 6 6 9 8 5 6266
                3 8 Running Bear - Johnny Preston 8 9 8 7 7 9 5912
                10 9 Beatnik Fly - Johnny and The Hurricanes 9 8 9 8 9 8 5824
                9 10 Delaware - Perry Como 10 13 11 10 10 13 5028
                15 11 Clementine - Bobby Darin 11 10 14 15 11 11 4908
                13 12 Wild One - Bobby Rydell 12= 12 13 16 12 14 4630
                11 13 You Got What It Takes - Marv Johnson 12= 14 15 11 13 10 4610
                12 14 What In The World's Come Over You - Jack Scott 16 17 18 12 14 15 3952
                NEW 15 Someone Else's Baby / Big Time - Adam Faith 14 11 12 13 24 3634
                23 16 Sweet Nothin's - Brenda Lee 15 15 10 14 18 3576
                24 17 He'll Have To Go - Jim Reeves 18 20 19 20 15 16 3268
                NEW 18 Cathy's Clown - The Everly Brothers 17 16 16 17 22 2902
                17 19 Hit And Miss - The John Barry Seven 22 20 16 12 2700
                27 20 Footsteps - Steve Lawrence 19 22 17 19 18 2666
                18 21 Looking High High High - Bryan Johnson 20 18 18 20 20 2414
                19 22 Country Boy - Fats Domino 19 19 19 1920
                14 23 Poor Me - Adam Faith 21 17 17 1920
                21 24 Be Mine - Lance Fortune 25 21 780
                26 25 Stairway To Heaven - Neil Sedaka 24 560
                25 26 Who Could Be Bluer - Jerry Lordan 26 26 550
                16 27 On A Slow Boat To China - Emile Ford and The Checkmates 29 23 400
                20 28 Summer Set - Mr. Acker Bilk 27 320
                RE 29 Bonnie Came Back - Duane Eddy 25 180
                NEW 30 Valentino - Connie Francis 27 120
                Willie And The Hand Jive - Cliff Richard 28
                Colette - Billy Fury 28 90
                Why - Anthony Newley 30 80
                Pretty Blue Eyes - Craig Douglas 29 60
                Let It Be Me - The Everly Brothers 30 30
                The Record Mirror Singles Chart 1954 - 1961 Revised And Extended

                The Biggest Chart Of The Time

                Comment


                • Originally posted by MrTibbs View Post
                  I would go with RM from January 56 as NME had a handful of dodgy #1's in the late fifties that never topped any other chart, Kay Starr, Tommy Edwards, Vic Damone, Jane Morgan to name a few.
                  You've persuaded me over!

                  I used to prefer RM to NME in this period but was a bit disillusioned by their "settling in" difficulties you revealed in the other thread. But looking at it again NME did have 6 outlier number ones (the 4 you mention plus Guy Mitchell and Bobby Darin). Also, at least as damming is the fact that they omitted two strong 2 week + number ones that all the others had: Johnny Otis and Everly Brothers (Bird Dog).

                  Comment


                  • I forgot about Guy Mitchell and Bobby Darin. I really believe that by the time RM extended to a Top Twenty they had hit the ground running. Furthermore RM's chart, especially with #1 records, aligned better with MM and Disc more than NME did which went out a limb with the aforementioned records.

                    Although I go with MM as the stronger chart from July 60 it doesn't mean it was always perfect either. Like ALL charts it defo had blips along the way. For example did they get it wrong as the only chart to go with The Beatles Penny Lane at #1 in '67, or did they alone get it right because of the larger sample, shops they sampled, or the additional Northern Ireland sample effect.

                    But such are the mysteries that keep me hooked on record charts.
                    The Record Mirror Singles Chart 1954 - 1961 Revised And Extended

                    The Biggest Chart Of The Time

                    Comment


                    • Also, it occurred to me that Dave Taylor once told me that RM was a better compiled chart than NME and it was a pity that it folded. Whether that was his personal opinion or he got it from some other source he never said.
                      The Record Mirror Singles Chart 1954 - 1961 Revised And Extended

                      The Biggest Chart Of The Time

                      Comment


                      • Melody Maker wasn’t reluctant to publish their charts when I visited them in the summer of 91. They had no plans to publish them but wouldn’t mind if I did. I contacted NME who said some of their staff was working on publishing the NME singles charts. With Guinness already on the market and NME soon to publish theirs I didn’t expect publishing the MM charts to be economically viable.

                        Comment


                        • Greetings Pop Pickers !

                          There are 13 differences this week in chart positions between the BBC Chart Top 20 and The Ultimate Averaged Chart Top 20.

                          Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending April 23rd 1960.

                          The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending April 23rd 1960 NME RM MM DISC RR Total
                          Last This The Sound Survey Stores 80 60 38 50 30 Points
                          Week Week The Top 30 Singles Chart BBC TOP 30 Scored
                          1 1 My Old Man's A Dustman - Lonnie Donegan 1 3 1 1 2 1 7530
                          2 2 Stuck On You - Elvis Presley 2 2 2 3 1 3 7464
                          5 3 Do You Mind - Anthony Newley 4 1 4 4 4 2 7266
                          3 4 Fall In Love With You / Willie And The Hand Jive - Cliff Richard 3 4 3 2 3 7 7062
                          4 5 Handy Man - Jimmy Jones 5 5 5 5 5 4 6738
                          18 6 Cathy's Clown - The Everly Brothers 6 6 6 6 7 14 6160
                          7 7 Fings Ain't Wot They Used To Be - Max Bygraves 8 9 9 9 8 5 5846
                          15 8 Someone Else's Baby / Big Time - Adam Faith 7 7 7 7 10 15 5802
                          6 9 Theme From 'A Summer Place' - Percy Faith 9 10 11 10 6 9 5588
                          9 10 Beatnik Fly - Johnny and The Hurricanes 10 12 12 8 9 12 5204
                          11 11 Clementine - Bobby Darin 12 13 13 14 12 8 4806
                          16 12 Sweet Nothin's - Brenda Lee 11 8 8 11 17 28 4770
                          8 13 Running Bear - Johnny Preston 14 15 16 12 11 6 4652
                          20 14 Footsteps - Steve Lawrence 13 14 10 15 14 20 4408
                          12 15 Wild One - Bobby Rydell 17 16 18 17 13 17 3832
                          17 16 He'll Have To Go - Jim Reeves 16 17 15 13 18 22 3684
                          NEW 17 Standing On The Corner - The King Brothers 15 11 14 15 26 3570
                          10 18 Delaware - Perry Como 18 17 20 16 16 2738
                          19 19 Hit And Miss - The John Barry Seven 27 19 20 10 2220
                          13 20 You Got What It Takes - Marv Johnson 20 20 18 11 1974
                          NEW 21 Tease Me / Ooh ! La La - Keith Kelly 19 25 17 16 1890
                          14 22 What In The World's Come Over You - Jack Scott 19 13 1500
                          22 23 Country Boy - Fats Domino 22 19 25 1500
                          23 24 Poor Me - Adam Faith 21 19 1160
                          NEW 25 The Heart Of A Teenage Girl - Craig Douglas 20 19 1116
                          NEW 26 Mack The Knife - Ella Fitzgerald 23 640
                          NEW 27 Cradle Of Love - Johnny Preston 23 640
                          21 28 Looking High High High - Bryan Johnson 26 23 640
                          RE 29 Why - Anthony Newley 30 18 470
                          25 30 Stairway To Heaven - Neil Sedaka 28 29 300
                          On A Slow Boat To China - Emile Ford and The Checkmates 21 300
                          Be Mine - Lance Fortune 24 210
                          Standing On The Corner - The Four Lads 29 160
                          A Voice In The Wilderness - Cliff Richard 27 120
                          Summer Set - Mr. Acker Bilk 30 30
                          The Record Mirror Singles Chart 1954 - 1961 Revised And Extended

                          The Biggest Chart Of The Time

                          Comment


                          • Chart Commentary

                            The #1 position is split with three records topping the five charts but Lonnie holds firm topping three of the five.

                            Elvis stalls at #2 to be overtaken soon by both Anthony Newley and The Everly Brothers the latter taking a big jump into the top ten this week.

                            In comes Ella Fitzgerald, the 'First Lady Of Song' , and The King Brothers getting the jump on The Four Lads, Johnny Preston, Craig Douglas, and an instantly forgettable record from Keith Kelly.
                            The Record Mirror Singles Chart 1954 - 1961 Revised And Extended

                            The Biggest Chart Of The Time

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by kjell View Post
                              Melody Maker wasn’t reluctant to publish their charts when I visited them in the summer of 91.
                              That is interesting. I suppose it was a matter of timing. If MM had put out a book in 1970 ('Charts of the Sixties' or suchlike) I think it would have sold well. Even if it didn't it might have put down a marker for their charts to be used in future.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by MrTibbs View Post
                                6 - Cathy's Clown - The Everly Brothers
                                Cathy’s Clown is often cited as an inspiration for the Beatles. I imagine the slow Orbinsony version of Please Please Me that they demoed to George Martin on 4-Sep-62 had at least a passing resemblance to it.

                                Comment


                                • That would have been a smart me by MM . It would have been a first time a book of any charts would have been made available commercially and would have laid down a marker as you suggest.
                                  The Record Mirror Singles Chart 1954 - 1961 Revised And Extended

                                  The Biggest Chart Of The Time

                                  Comment


                                  • Greetings Pop Pickers !

                                    There are 7 differences this week in chart positions between the BBC Chart Top 20 and The Ultimate Averaged Chart Top 20.

                                    Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending April 30th 1960.

                                    The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending April 30th 1960 NME RM MM DISC RR Total
                                    Last This The Sound Survey Stores 80 60 38 50 30 Points
                                    Week Week The Top 30 Singles Chart BBC TOP 30 Scored
                                    3 1 Do You Mind - Anthony Newley 1 2 2 1 1 1 7600
                                    6 2 Cathy's Clown - The Everly Brothers 2 1 1 2 5 4 7412
                                    4 3 Fall In Love With You / Willie And The Hand Jive - Cliff Richard 3 5 4 3 3 5 6944
                                    8 4 Someone Else's Baby / Big Time - Adam Faith 4 3 3 7 7 3 6872
                                    5 5 Handy Man - Jimmy Jones 6 4 5 5 6 6 6708
                                    1 6 My Old Man's A Dustman - Lonnie Donegan 7 6 7 6 4 2 6610
                                    2 7 Stuck On You - Elvis Presley 5 8 6 4 2 7 6536
                                    12 8 Sweet Nothin's - Brenda Lee 8 9 8 8 8 8 5854
                                    17 9 Standing On The Corner - The King Brothers 9 7 9 9 11 12 5646
                                    7 10 Fings Ain't Wot They Used To Be - Max Bygraves 10 10 12 10 10 9 5328
                                    9 11 Theme From 'A Summer Place' - Percy Faith 11 11 13 16 9 10 4980
                                    14 12 Footsteps - Steve Lawrence 12 13 11 13 13 15 4704
                                    NEW 13 Shazam - Duane Eddy 13 12 10 11 18 21 4490
                                    10 14 Beatnik Fly - Johnny and The Hurricanes 14 16 14 12 12 17 4312
                                    15 15 Wild One - Bobby Rydell 15 17 19 15 14 11 3898
                                    11 16 Clementine - Bobby Darin 16 18 19 17 15 13 3632
                                    16 17 He'll Have To Go - Jim Reeves 17= 20 16 19 19 14 3346
                                    22 18 What In The World's Come Over You - Jack Scott 19 21 18 14 18 2616
                                    13 19 Running Bear - Johnny Preston 17= 15 16 16 2480
                                    21 20 Tease Me / Ooh La La ! - Keith Kelly 25 17 20 1738
                                    27 21 Cradle Of Love - Johnny Preston 14 23 1600
                                    19 22 Hit And Miss - The John Barry Seven 22 20 20 1600
                                    18 23 Delaware - Perry Como 25 17 19 1540
                                    25 24 The Heart Of A Teenage Girl - Craig Douglas 20 15 18 1454
                                    26 25 Mack The Knife - Ella Fitzgerald 19 30 990
                                    30 26 Stairway To Heaven - Neil Sedaka 23 26 790
                                    20 27 You Got What It Takes - Marv Johnson 24 27 680
                                    24 28 Poor Me - Adam Faith 28 22 510
                                    28 29 Looking High High High - Bryan Johnson 29 24 370
                                    NEW 30 Standing On The Corner - The Four Lads 27 320
                                    Country Boy - Fats Domino 25 180
                                    Why - Anthony Newley 28 90
                                    Chattanooga Choo Choo - Ernie Fields 30 80
                                    On A Slow Boat To China - Emile Ford and The Checkmates 29 60



                                    The Record Mirror Singles Chart 1954 - 1961 Revised And Extended

                                    The Biggest Chart Of The Time

                                    Comment


                                    • Chart Commentary

                                      As mentioned last time Elvis's challenge crumbles and down he topples to #7 but Lonnie's fall from the chart summit is even more dramatic and he plummets all the way to #6.

                                      Anthony Newley manages to take #1. He also holds this position in 3 of the 5 charts while the Everly's take the other 2.

                                      The Record Mirror Singles Chart 1954 - 1961 Revised And Extended

                                      The Biggest Chart Of The Time

                                      Comment


                                      • Originally posted by MrTibbs View Post
                                        Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending April 30th 1960.

                                        1 Do You Mind - Anthony Newley
                                        2 Cathy's Clown - The Everly Brothers
                                        3 Fall In Love With You / Willie And The Hand Jive - Cliff Richard
                                        Well, this is it. The chart the week I was born!!!!!
                                        Keep the fire burning like the first time feeling

                                        Comment


                                        • Originally posted by MrTibbs View Post
                                          For example did they get it wrong as the only chart to go with The Beatles Penny Lane at #1 in '67, or did they alone get it right because of the larger sample, shops they sampled, or the additional Northern Ireland sample effect.
                                          As one who lives in Northern Ireland I would like to think it was us Beatles fans who put Penny Lane to no. 1 in Melody Maker for 3 weeks in February 1967.

                                          But seriously I don't think so because the population of NI was only 1.5m in 1967 and there were few record shops then. Did MM sample Boots, Woolworths or Smyths (local independent chain - not WH Smith)? Most record shops were independent electrical shops.

                                          Comment


                                          • If it is any indication of what happened in Northern Ireland, Penny Lane didn't make it to the top in Ireland either.

                                            Comment


                                            • Originally posted by BrainDamageII View Post

                                              Well, this is it. The chart the week I was born!!!!!
                                              Well at least u had a decent #2 in that top three Brain
                                              The Record Mirror Singles Chart 1954 - 1961 Revised And Extended

                                              The Biggest Chart Of The Time

                                              Comment


                                              • Originally posted by brian05 View Post

                                                As one who lives in Northern Ireland I would like to think it was us Beatles fans who put Penny Lane to no. 1 in Melody Maker for 3 weeks in February 1967.

                                                But seriously I don't think so because the population of NI was only 1.5m in 1967 and there were few record shops then. Did MM sample Boots, Woolworths or Smyths (local independent chain - not WH Smith)? Most record shops were independent electrical shops.
                                                No, I'm pretty sure MM didn't sample those stores back then Brian and defo not Woolworths as they only started to give sales info to BMRB from 1975.
                                                The Record Mirror Singles Chart 1954 - 1961 Revised And Extended

                                                The Biggest Chart Of The Time

                                                Comment


                                                • Originally posted by MrTibbs View Post

                                                  No, I'm pretty sure MM didn't sample those stores back then Brian and defo not Woolworths as they only started to give sales info to BMRB from 1975.
                                                  That's quite right. There's an article in one of the Record Mirror's, which reveals the attitude to major stores reluctance to give sales information. One company executive was adamant that they wouldn't give sales information out on the pretext that it was like giving details to competitors. Plus when supermarkets started selling records the sales of records just went down as "non food items".
                                                  Even back in the 70's one store might represent a whole city. A record rep on a forum told me that only Bradley's Records was the chart shop for Sheffield. That would have been in the middle 70's. It was too difficult to spot a BMRB chart shop. Since the diary was often seen on display in the shops.
                                                  As for the earlier chart compilers, you could purchase a list of the shops at the time. I suspect copies will be around somewhere of these. It's just a question of where to look for them?
                                                  Education for anyone aged 12 to 16 has made a mess of the world!

                                                  Comment


                                                  • Greetings Pop Pickers !

                                                    There are 8 differences this week in chart positions between the BBC Chart Top 20 and The Ultimate Averaged Chart Top 20.

                                                    Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending May 7th 1960.

                                                    The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending May 7th 1960 NME RM MM DISC RR Total
                                                    Last This The Sound Survey Stores 80 60 38 50 30 Points
                                                    Week Week The Top 30 Singles Chart BBC TOP 30 Scored
                                                    2 1 Cathy's Clown - The Everly Brothers 1 1 1 1 1 1 7740
                                                    1 2 Do You Mind - Anthony Newley 2 3 2 2 2 2 7402
                                                    4 3 Someone Else's Baby / Big Time - Adam Faith 3 2 3 4 4 3 7216
                                                    3 4 Fall In Love With You / Willie And The Hand Jive - Cliff Richard 4 4 4 3 3 5 7024
                                                    5 5 Handy Man - Jimmy Jones 5 5 5 5 5 6 6678
                                                    7 6 Stuck On You - Elvis Presley 6 6 8 6 6 8 6270
                                                    8 7 Sweet Nothin's - Brenda Lee 7 8 7 7 7 7 6112
                                                    9 8 Standing On The Corner - The King Brothers 9 6 10 10 9 4 5968
                                                    6 9 My Old Man's A Dustman - Lonnie Donegan 10 10 9 9 8 9 5646
                                                    13 10 Shazam - Duane Eddy 8 9 6 8 10 16 5634
                                                    12 11 Footsteps - Steve Lawrence 11 11 11 12 11 10 5152
                                                    11 12 Theme From 'A Summer Place' - Percy Faith 14= 13 16 15 13 11 4448
                                                    21 13 Cradle Of Love - Johnny Preston 13 12 13 16 14 18 4410
                                                    14 14 Beatnik Fly - Johnny and The Hurricanes 12 16 15 11 12 13 4410
                                                    24 15 The Heart Of A Teenage Girl - Craig Douglas 14= 14 12 13 18 27 3954
                                                    10 16 Fings Ain't Wot They Used To Be - Max Bygraves 16 15 18 18 16 14 3814
                                                    17 17 He'll Have To Go - Jim Reeves 18= 20 17 17 20 17 3222
                                                    16 18 Clementine - Bobby Darin 18= 18 20 15 12 2828
                                                    20 19 Tease Me / Ooh La La ! - Keith Kelly 17 22 14 14 2386
                                                    15 20 Wild One - Bobby Rydell 20 19 17 15 2140
                                                    25 21 Mack The Knife - Ella Fitzgerald 17 20 26 1930
                                                    18 22 What In The World's Come Over You - Jack Scott 24 19 23 1256
                                                    26 23 Stairway To Heaven - Neil Sedaka 21 20 1130
                                                    19 24 Running Bear - Johnny Preston 23 19 1000
                                                    23 25 Delaware - Perry Como 29 19 24 970
                                                    28 26 Poor Me - Adam Faith 25 21 780
                                                    NEW 27 Greenfields - The Brothers Four 19 720
                                                    NEW 28 Kookie Kookie (Lend Me Your Comb) - Ed Byrnes and Connie Stevens 20 660
                                                    22 29 Hit And Miss - The John Barry Seven 27 22 590
                                                    30 30 Standing On The Corner - The Four Lads 26 400
                                                    Looking High High High - Bryan Johnson 28 28 330
                                                    You Got What It Takes - Marv Johnson 25 180
                                                    Chattanooga Choo Choo - Ernie Fields 30 80
                                                    Why - Anthony Newley 29 60
                                                    Heartbeat - Buddy Holly 30 30



                                                    The Record Mirror Singles Chart 1954 - 1961 Revised And Extended

                                                    The Biggest Chart Of The Time

                                                    Comment

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