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The Ultimate Averaged Chart - The BBC Chart Re-Imagined

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  • Splodj
    replied
    The first advantage that springs out is that the tie at 3 is broken, and in a convincing way. The differences below that are greater than I would have expected, particularly as this is the slow-moving time of year. Perhaps the MM and RM weightings should be halved to produce a fairer picture.

    I admire the way that every year NME produced a chart in Christmas week, while the other charts compilers were partying!

    Leave a comment:


  • MrTibbs
    replied
    The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending December 29th 1956 NME MM RM Total
    Last This The Sound Survey Stores 65 20 60 Points
    Week Week The Top 30 Singles Chart TOP 30 Scored
    1 1 Just Walking In The Rain - Johnnie Ray 1 1 1 4350
    3 2 Singing The Blues - Guy Mitchell 2 2 1 4265
    2 3 Green Door - Frankie Vaughan 3 3 3 4060
    4 4 St. Therese Of The Roses - Malcolm Vaughan 3 4 4 3980
    5 5 Cindy Oh Cindy - Eddie Fisher 6 4 6 3665
    8 6 True Love - Bing Crosby and Grace Kelly 5 8 7 3590
    6 7 Rip It Up - Bill Haley and His Comets 9 7 5 3470
    7 8 My Prayer - The Platters 10 6 8 3245
    11 9 Make It A Party - Winifred Atwell 7 14 14 2920
    10 10 A Woman In Love - Frankie Laine 12 11 10 2895
    9 11 Hound Dog - Elvis Presley (A) 16 8 8 2815
    12 12 Love Me Tender - Elvis Presley 11 13 12 2800
    16 13 Singing The Blues - Tommy Steele 17 10 10 2590
    13 14 More - Jimmy Young 13 16 17 2310
    15 15 Blue Moon - Elvis Presley 22 14 13 2005
    17 16 Christmas Island - Dickie Valentine 8 1495
    14 17 When Mexico Gave Up The Rumba - Mitchell Torok 15 12 1420
    30 18 Blueberry Hill - Fats Domino 25 20 20 1270
    18 19 Rock Around The Clock - Bill Haley and His Comets 18 15 1220
    23 20 Rocking Through The Rye - Bill Haley and His Comets 16 16 1200
    NEW 21 Moonlight Gambler - Frankie Laine 14 1105
    20 22 Two Different Worlds - Ronnie Hilton 21 19 890
    24 23 A House With Love In It - Vera Lynn 18 845
    24 24 Friendly Persuasion - Pat Boone 19 780
    19 25 The Green Door - Jim Lowe 18 780
    RE 26 Sing With Shand - Jimmy Shand 19 720
    21 27 Cindy Oh Cindy - Tony Brent 20 715
    27 28 Christmas And You - Dave King 23 520
    NEW 29 Join In And Sing No 3 - The Johnston Brothers 24 455
    26 30 I Don't Care If The Sun Don't Shine - Elvis Presley (B) 26 325
    22 Love Me As Though There Were No Tomorrow - Nat King Cole 30 20 285
    29 A Letter To A Soldier - Barbara Lyon 27 260
    All Of You - Sammy Davis Jnr. 28 195
    Lonnie Donegan Showcase (LP) - Lonnie Donegan 29 130
    28 Rudy's Rock - Bill Haley and His Comets 30 65
    MM and RM did not compile a chart this week so an average position was taken of likely chart position for this non compiled week by taking a mid point position between the chart for 22nd December and the chart for 5th January 1957 for both charts in order to compile an experimental Ultimate Averaged Chart.

    Leave a comment:


  • MrTibbs
    replied
    Here is the surprise Ultimate Averaged Chart I have been hinting at a couple of times over the past few weeks. I have compiled an UAC for the 29th December 1956 where only NME compiled a chart and MM and RM did not, a first for the UAC where non compiled weeks are present by music papers. I will be interested to hear your feedback on this experimental UAC so feel free to offer your comments.

    But first an explanation as to what you are seeing in the columns for MM and RM. To try and establish a likely chart for both papers for non compiled 29th December I took a mid-point average between the record position each paper allocated on their chart for each record for the weeks of 22nd December and 5th January 1957. So for example, if a record was #1 on both of those weeks it would have a mid-point average of 1, if it was #1 on 29th December but #2 on 5th January the mid-point average would be 1.5, if #2 then #4 mid-point average would be 3, and so on for every record and chart position. Where MM and RM columns are blank this means the record placed on NME for that week did not feature on MM or RM for either week.

    As some records would leave the chart after 29th, and some entered on 5th January thus missing out on a week it would disadvantage such records as each would likely still place on the UAC Top 30, so, for the purpose of this chart such records were granted the luxury of points of #21 on the chart in order to establish a fair average for the missing week of 29th December.

    I have to say I was surprised to see the outcome as the result produced what looks like a chart that fits well into this non compiled week. For the purists among you though you have the compiled NME chart to go on for this week.

    Leave a comment:


  • Robbie
    replied
    Oops. the eye deceives! I've just realised I've posted about a Tommy Steele showcase album when MrTibbs had typed Lonnie Donegan. That will explain why I couldn't find it at discogs.com...

    Leave a comment:


  • MrTibbs
    replied
    I think you're right Robbie. If I remember correctly the original Guy Mitchell Showcase that my mother had was 10'' and a few years later it was reissued as a 12'' with a couple more tracks.

    Leave a comment:


  • Robbie
    replied
    As well as the Guy Mitchell Showcase album I linked to last week, my mother also owned the Tommy Steele Showcase album too. Surprisingly the album isn't listed at discogs.com nor on his discography page at wikipedia. I think the album may have been a 10" album rather than 12". It's possible the Guy Mitchell album was also 10"

    Leave a comment:


  • MrTibbs
    replied
    This week Lonnie Donegan becomes one of the few elite artists to place an LP on one of the music paper singles charts.

    Next week's chart is the surprise I mentioned a week or so back. Your thoughts and feedback on this surprise when it comes probably on Wednesday will be interesting

    Leave a comment:


  • MrTibbs
    replied
    Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending December 22nd 1956

    Here are all '' the uppers, the downers, the just hanging 'arounders '

    The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending December 22nd 1956 NME MM RM Total
    Last This The Sound Survey Stores 65 20 60 Points
    Week Week The Top 30 Singles Chart TOP 30 Scored
    1 1 Just Walking In The Rain - Johnnie Ray 1 1 1 4350
    2 2 Green Door - Frankie Vaughan 2 3 3 4125
    5 3 Singing The Blues - Guy Mitchell 4 2 2 4075
    3 4 St. Therese Of The Roses - Malcolm Vaughan 3 4 4 3980
    7 5 Cindy Oh Cindy - Eddie Fisher 5 5 6 3710
    4 6 Rip It Up - Bill Haley and The Comets 6 8 5 3645
    6 7 My Prayer - The Platters 8 5 7 3455
    10 8 True Love - Bing Crosby and Grace Kelly 7 10 9 3300
    9 9 Hound Dog - Elvis Presley 11 7 8 3160
    8 10 A Woman In Love - Frankie Laine 10 9 10 3065
    12 11 Make It A Party - Winifred Atwell 9 13 11 2990
    16 12 Love Me Tender - Elvis Presley 14 11 12 2645
    13 13 More - Jimmy Young 14 16 13 2485
    14 14 When Mexico Gave Up The Rumba - Mitchell Torok 13 12 19 2270
    11 15 Blue Moon - Elvis Presley (A) 17 18 14 2190
    19 16 Singing The Blues - Tommy Steele 19 14 17 1960
    20 17 Christmas Island - Dickie Valentine 12 20 1895
    25 18 Rock Around The Clock - Bill Haley and His Comets 25 14 16 1630
    18 19 The Green Door - Jim Lowe 29 20 15 1310
    15 20 Two Different Worlds - Ronnie Hilton 18 16 1145
    21 21 Cindy Oh Cindy - Tony Brent 16 975
    24 22 Love Me As Though There Were No Tomorrow - Nat Ki ng Cole 22 19 825
    17 23 Rocking Through The Rye - Bill Haley and His Comets 18 780
    22 24 A House With Love In It - Vera Lynn 20 715
    26 24 Friendly Persuasion - Pat Boone 20 715
    RE 26 I Don't Care If The Sun Don't Shine - Elvis Presley (B) 23 520
    NEW 27 Christmas And You - Dave King 24 455
    30 28 Rudy's Rock - Bill Haley and The Comets 26 325
    NEW 29 A Letter To A Soldier - Barbara Lyon 27 260
    RE 30 Blueberry Hill Fats Domino 30 65
    Lonnie Donegan Showcase (LP) - Lonnie Donegan 28
    23 Only You - The Platters
    27 Cindy Oh Cindy - Vince Martin
    28 Green Door - Glen Mason
    28 Don't Be Cruel - Elvis Presley

    Leave a comment:


  • braindeadpj
    replied
    At least we can say the rules of the UAC are clear and transparent even if the rules of the charts at the time were not!

    Leave a comment:


  • braindeadpj
    replied
    Originally posted by MrTibbs View Post

    Thanks again brain for raising this important point for debate. I've taken a look back like I said with previous charts and note I have been consistent on this point throughout where a split side is on two charts and not the third.

    The reason being where a record has split sides and both chart, each has to be considered independently on its own merit. In your case above NME don't list Hound and Cruel as a double sided single like they normally do most times, they just list Hound. So Cruel has to be judged on its own merit just like any other record missing from an individual chart. Cruel charted in RM and MM only so only their points qualify for consideration in this case so the above chart is correct.

    I hope this clarifies how such cases are fairly considered. Phew ! I need an Aspirin
    Thank you for the clarification. I understand you reasoning and based on the available information, it may be the best option rather than to speculate....

    Leave a comment:


  • MrTibbs
    replied
    Originally posted by Robbie View Post
    The battle of 'Singing The Blues' is now underway as Tommy Steele's version enters as Guy Mitchell storms into the top 5.
    The clash takes place next month in January 1957 Robbie when they meet in the top three. Gloves off !

    Leave a comment:


  • Robbie
    replied
    The battle of 'Singing The Blues' is now underway as Tommy Steele's version enters as Guy Mitchell storms into the top 5.

    Leave a comment:


  • MrTibbs
    replied
    Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending December 15th 1956

    Here are all '' the uppers, the downers, the just hanging 'arounders '

    The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending December 15th 1956 NME MM RM Total
    Last This The Sound Survey Stores 65 20 60 Points
    Week Week The Top 30 Singles Chart TOP 30 Scored
    1 1 Just Walking In The Rain - Johnnie Ray 1 1 1 4350
    2 2 Green Door - Frankie Vaughan 2 2 2 4205
    6 3 St. Therese Of The Roses - Malcolm Vaughan 3 3 3 4060
    3 4 Rip It Up - Bill Haley and His Comets 4 6 4 3875
    13 5 Singing The Blues - Guy Mitchell 5 8 5 3710
    5 6 My Prayer - The Platters 6 5 6 3645
    10 7 Cindy Oh Cindy - Eddie Fisher 7 7 7 3480
    4 8 A Woman In Love - Frankie Laine 8 4 9 3355
    7 9 Hound Dog - Elvis Presley (A) 9 10 8 3230
    11 10 True Love - Bing Crosby and Grace Kelly 10 9 10 3065
    8 11 Blue Moon - Elvis Presley 11 14 11 2840
    14 12 Make It A Party - Winifred Atwell 11 17 13 2660
    9 13 More - Jimmy Young 15 13 12 2540
    12 14 When Mexico Gave Up The Rumba - Mitchell Torok 14 11 16 2405
    17 15 Two Different Worlds - Ronnie Hilton 13 12 19 2270
    18 16 Love Me Tender - Elvis Presley 17 15 15 2190
    15 17 Rocking Through The Rye - Bill Haley and His Comets 21 18 16 1810
    20 18 The Green Door - Jim Lowe 20 14 1735
    NEW 19 Singing The Blues - Tommy Steele 23 16 18 1600
    25 20 Christmas Island - Dickie Valentine 15 20 1260
    28 21 Cindy Oh Cindy - Tony Brent 18 20 1065
    21 22 A House With Love In It - Vera Lynn 19 780
    16 23 Only You - The Platters 20 660
    19 24 Love Me As Though There Were No Tomorrow - Nat King Cole 22 585
    23 25 Rock Around The Clock - Bill Haley and The Comets 24 455
    27 26 Friendly Persuasion - Pat Boone 25 390
    NEW 27 Cindy Oh Cindy - Vince Martin 26 325
    30 28 Green Door - Glen Mason 27 260
    22 28 Don't Be Cruel - Elvis Presley (B) 18 260
    RE 30 Rudy's Rock - Bill Haley and The Comets 28 195
    More - Perry Como 29 130
    Rip It Up - Little Richard 30 65
    24 In The Middle Of The House - Jimmy Parkinson
    25 In The Middle Of The House - Alma Cogan
    29 Autumn Concerto - The Melachrino Orchestra

    Leave a comment:


  • kingofskiffle
    replied
    The issue in all of this is not knowing exactly the original data each chart compiler had to put their own chart together. We know how MrTibbs is doing this chart because he has been very open and transparent over how he is doing it. We also know that the BBC chart was inconsistent in it's approach at times as, to be fair, where the others at times. Having the raw data makes it very easy to decide on how to deal with sides, but I do suspect that, as we have seen in the early RM returns, shops where simply picking a side and reporting that and sometimes it was a double A and sometimes it was not non the printed chart.

    Keep up the good work

    Leave a comment:


  • MrTibbs
    replied
    Originally posted by braindeadpj View Post
    Since Don't Be Cruel is the B-side to Hound Dog and hasn't featured at all on the NME chart, shouldn't it be getting the average of 17 as an NME position on the 8/12/1956 chart? Difficult to judge for the previous weeks, but this time it is on both MM and RM...
    I know NME did feature both Blue Moon and I Don't Care If The Sun Don't Shine on the 24th November chart just to confuse matters.......
    Thanks again brain for raising this important point for debate. I've taken a look back like I said with previous charts and note I have been consistent on this point throughout where a split side is on two charts and not the third.

    The reason being where a record has split sides and both chart, each has to be considered independently on its own merit. In your case above NME don't list Hound and Cruel as a double sided single like they normally do most times, they just list Hound. So Cruel has to be judged on its own merit just like any other record missing from an individual chart. Cruel charted in RM and MM only so only their points qualify for consideration in this case so the above chart is correct.

    I hope this clarifies how such cases are fairly considered. Phew ! I need an Aspirin

    Leave a comment:


  • braindeadpj
    replied
    It is difficult to judge the double-sided songs especially when the charts are not consistent from week to week as we saw with the Goons recently. Since the NME is a top 30 and the others a top 20, it does seem unlikely that a track would be on the shorter charts, but not the longer. Though perhaps that it is not a correct assumption. We do know that songs can appear on the MM and RM chart without appearing on the NME on a week to week basis (for example on the first chart with a top 30, Michael Holliday - Nothin' to Do was re-entering the UAC at 22 with MM and RM positions but not NME, and Pat Boone - I'll be Home the following week though they do both appear on NME in other weeks).
    I looked back over the previous UAC 's and the only time a song is consistently on both MM and RM and not NME is if both sides are charting and NME has combined (or its the week before it charts on NME or has already fallen off the NME chart). When the B-side gets popular sometime after the A-side has charted it is difficult to judge, especially when the charts only list one side.....

    I know it can be very difficult to judge when to compensate and I don't envy you at all for trying to work it out. I do of course greatly appreciate that you are attempting to create an ultimate chart for the 50s with the limitations and confounding factors that are present in using 50-60 year old incomplete data!
    Last edited by braindeadpj; Sat December 4, 2021, 19:36.

    Leave a comment:


  • kjell
    replied
    Since this is the chart of charts it’s what the combination of them says that is the logical way of doing it, and I fully support your method Brian. If you should have added views in addition you would be likely to run into incalculable problems.

    Leave a comment:


  • MrTibbs
    replied
    I'll take a look at this tomorrow brain. I see where you are coming from but want to review this in comparison to how I considered all other similar situations before I jump and correct. My head hurts working with this era with ever changing treatment of split sides over all three papers. There is no consistency. Sometimes a paper combines the sides then the next week splits them while another paper would do the very opposite. All three papers were guilty of this and Disc is yet to come. Keeping up with it is a nightmare. It's an ever changing landscape.

    I genuinely do my best working with this but apologise if I slipped up with the above one. I will do a check tomorrow as I'm out today and correct if so. Thanks though for raising the valid point for review.

    Brian

    Leave a comment:


  • braindeadpj
    replied
    Since Don't Be Cruel is the B-side to Hound Dog and hasn't featured at all on the NME chart, shouldn't it be getting the average of 17 as an NME position on the 8/12/1956 chart? Difficult to judge for the previous weeks, but this time it is on both MM and RM...
    I know NME did feature both Blue Moon and I Don't Care If The Sun Don't Shine on the 24th November chart just to confuse matters.......

    Leave a comment:


  • Graham76man
    replied
    I think both yourself Robbie and Mr Tibbs have answered the question of why Guy Mitchell was popular. Your mother's fancied him!
    Plus of course he was "singing the blues", which was popular with many singers and the youth at that time.

    Leave a comment:


  • MrTibbs
    replied
    What a coincidence Robbie as my mother had that album as well

    Just as 'the rock era' was taking off for some reason back came a whole lot of artists from the 'crooner' era to upset the apple cart. Doris Day, Anne Shelton (from even further back), Frankie Laine, Johnnie Ray and Guy Mitchell all blocking out the #1 position from summer '56 into 1957.

    Leave a comment:


  • Robbie
    replied
    What was the reason for the resurgence in Guy Mitchell's fortunes? I recognise a number of the songs in this chart due to my mother having bought the single. She has a few Guy Mitchell singles along with a hits LP and they are all from this period.

    This album was never off the turntable even in the 1970s! https://www.discogs.com/release/1989...owcase-Of-Hits

    Leave a comment:


  • MrTibbs
    replied
    Here comes Guy Mitchell a high new entry at #13, not been on any chart since 1954, and what a comeback with his biggest ever hit and more to follow.
    Frankie Vaughan knocks on the 'door' of #1 but it will remain closed to him. His Green Door much the inferior version to Jim Lowe's original.
    The Platters' My Prayer, a stunning record by the premier vocal group of the fifties.
    Elvis' momentum is gathering pace.
    Eddie Fisher doesn't know it yet but this is his last UK hit, but he was indisputably one of the premier male vocalists of the decade.

    Leave a comment:


  • MrTibbs
    replied
    Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending December 8th 1956

    Here are all '' the uppers, the downers, the just hanging 'arounders '

    The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending December 8th 1956 NME MM RM Total
    Last This The Sound Survey Stores 65 20 60 Points
    Week Week The Top 30 Singles Chart TOP 30 Scored
    1 1 Just Walking In The Rain - Johnnie Ray 1 1 1 4350
    3 2 Green Door - Frankie Vaughan 2 6 3 4065
    5 3 Rip It Up - Bill Haley and His Comets 4 4 2 4035
    2 4 A Woman In Love - Frankie Laine 3 2 6 3900
    4 5 My Prayer - The Platters 7 3 4 3740
    7 6 St. Therese Of The Roses - Malcolm Vaughan 6 5 5 3705
    6 7 Hound Dog - Elvis Presley (A) 5 8 7 3590
    9 8 Blue Moon - Elvis Presley 9 9 8 3250
    8 9 More - Jimmy Young 8 13 10 3115
    12 10 Cindy Oh Cindy - Eddie Fisher 11 7 9 3100
    11 11 True Love - Bing Crosby and Grace Kelly 10 11 12 2905
    10 12 When Mexico Gave Up The Rumba - Mitchell Torok 12 10 11 2855
    NEW 13 Singing The Blues - Guy Mitchell 14 14 13 2525
    13 14 Make It A Party - Winifred Atwell 13 15 15 2450
    16 15 Rocking Through The Rye - Bill Haley and His Comets 17 14 1930
    20 16 Only You - The Platters 18.5 20 17 1873
    14 17 Two Different Worlds - Ronnie Hilton 14 11 1505
    NEW 18 Love Me Tender - Elvis Presley 19 20 1440
    18 19 Love Me As Though There Were No Tomorrow - Nat King Cole 16 16 1275
    15 20 The Green Door - Jim Lowe 27 16 1160
    23 21 A House With Love In It - Vera Lynn 17 20 1130
    25 22 Don't Be Cruel - Elvis Presley (B) 17 17 1120
    19 23 Rock Around The Clock - Bill Haley and His Comets 20 19 940
    27 24 In The Middle Of The House - Jimmy Parkinson 20 715
    23 25 In The Middle Of The House - Alma Cogan 22 585
    NEW 25 Christmas Island - Dickie Valentine 22 585
    NEW 27 Friendly Persuasion - Pat Boone 24 455
    NEW 28 Cindy Oh Cindy - Tony Brent 28 18 455
    21 29 Autumn Concerto - The Melachrino Orchestra 25 390
    29 30 Green Door - Glen Mason 26 325
    30 More - Perry Como 18 260
    That's Right - The Deep River Boys 29 130
    Join In And Sing No 3 - The Johnston Brothers 30 65
    Only You / The Great Pretender - The Platters 21
    17 Giddy-Up-A-Ding-Dong - Freddie Bell and The Bell Boys
    22 Sing With Shand - Jimmy Shand
    26 Blueberry Hill - Fats Domino
    28 Rock With The Caveman - Tommy Steele

    Leave a comment:


  • Graham76man
    replied
    Originally posted by membranemusic View Post
    Re the 1952 dilemma. Do you recall that Barry Kowal posted two intervening charts for November 1952 following the CB/SW book?
    weblink:

    http://hitsofalldecades.com/chart_hi...2587&Itemid=52

    Of course this does not answer your question, but it fills the gap?
    I'm afraid that doesn't work at all. The last two charts he posts are the first two of the month. If you look at the previous two weeks of the last month, the first has 9 new hits and the second 5 new hits. These would correspond with the new records being released at the first and second week as was common.
    If the two missing weeks had been the end of the month a simple shuffling of the records would have been fine. But the likelihood is that about 15 records were new in those two weeks.
    To get a better picture you would need to have a list of the records issued in November 1952, which is around 87 on the 45 Worlds site, but they are not always very good at dating records. And often I was using Colin's book to correct and add the dates to some there. But you can check. With the link below: PS if you haven't subscribed you will only see 50!
    https://www.45worlds.com/78rpm/78_fi...e=250&fgo=1#fr

    Leave a comment:

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