Announcement

**Splodj** · Sat June 27, 2020, 18:20

The nearest thing to the BBC chart appearing in print appears to be the 'Pop Weekly' Top 30. I've checked a few weeks and the Top 10 is the same as the BBC's the previous week, with positions 11-30 somewhat different. Perhaps they did their own averaging.

https://worldradiohistory.com/Pop-Weekly-UK.htm

**RokinRobinOfLocksley** · Sat June 27, 2020, 19:05

Originally posted by Splodj View Post

The nearest thing to the BBC chart appearing in print appears to be the 'Pop Weekly' Top 30. I've checked a few weeks and the Top 10 is the same as the BBC's the previous week, with positions 11-30 somewhat different. Perhaps they did their own averaging.

https://worldradiohistory.com/Pop-Weekly-UK.htm

From Alan Smith's 50s & 60s UK Chart History article:

Pop Weekly’s chart was compiled by averaging out the charts of New Musical Express, Melody Maker, Disc and Record Retailer in similar mode to the BBC method. However Pop Weekly also received advance sales figures from record companies and sampled around 20 to 30 stores to get its chart.

**Splodj** · Sat June 27, 2020, 21:25

Interesting.

By 1966 Disc had stopped including LPs in their main chart. Did the BBC then apply their odd-one-out policy and exclude LPs from their composite chart as NME were the only one left doing it?

**MrTibbs** · Sat June 27, 2020, 23:22

Hmmmm. Seems I am wasting my time compiling and posting the Ultimate Chart here. Seems like most interest and conversation centres around Record Labels, the BBC Chart and Pop Weekly Chart.

**braindeadpj** · Sun June 28, 2020, 03:28

Please continue compiling and posting the Ultimate Averaged Chart. It Is interesting to see how it differs from its component charts.

**Splodj** · Sun June 28, 2020, 06:53

Brian - I see the discussion as arising out of your charts rather than in conflict with them. If there was another composite chart printed at the time then this is a relevant point. The question of whether to include LPs and the odd-one-out principle in general is also relevant. The 'record label' post specifically asked for comments so I provided one; I do not think you should include record lables.

If there is anything in particular that you would like us to comment on?

**MrTibbs** · Sun June 28, 2020, 15:07

OK. Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending 13th June 1964.

The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending June 13th 1964			BBC	NME	MM	Disc	RR
Last	This		Chart	Chart	Chart	Chart	Chart
Week	Week	Title and Artist		Total Chart Positions			30
1	1	You're My World - Cilla Black	1	1	1	1	1
2	2	It's Over - Roy Orbison	2	2	2	2	2
7	3	Here I Go Again - The Hollies	3=	5	3	3	8
11	4	Someone Someone - Brian Poole and The Tremeloes	3=	6	5	4	4
6	5	No Particular Place To Go - Chuck Berry	5	4	8	5	3
10	6	My Guy - Mary Wells	6	3	7	6	9
5	7	The Rise And Fall Of Flingel Bunt - The Shadows	8=	10	4	8	7
4	8	Constantly - Cliff Richard	8=	8	6	9	6
3	9	Juliet - The Four Pennies	7	7	9	7	5
14	10	Shout - Lulu and The Luvvers	10	12	10	10	10
23	11	Hello Dolly - Louis Armstrong	11	9	11	12	18
24	12	Ramona - The Bachelors	12	11	12	11	19
12	13	Walk On By - Dionne Warwick	14	16	13	17	13
18	14	Can't You See That She's Mine - The Dave Clark Five	13	18	15	13	11
8	15	My Boy Lollipop - Millie	15	13	17	15	15
15	16	Non Ho L'Eta Per Amarti - Gigliola Cinquetti	18	15	14	20	17
13	17	I Love You Because - Jim Reeves	16	19	16	14	12
9	18	A Little Loving - The Fourmost	17	14	19	19	14
16	19	I Will - Billy Fury	19	20	18	18	20
28	20	Nobody I Know - Peter and Gordon	20	20	20	16	23
NEW	21	You're No Good - The Swinging Blue Jeans	21=	17	23	21	25
20	22	I Love You Baby - Freddie and The Dreamers	21=	25	22	23	16
22	23	Don't Let The Rain Come Down - Ronnie Hilton	23	23	25	22	21
21	24	You're The One - Kathy Kirby	24	26	21	27	22
17	25	I Believe - The Bachelors	25	29	24	26	24
NEW	26	Hello Dolly - Frankie Vaughan	26	20		30	28
NEW	27	Ain't She Sweet - The Beatles	27	24		25
19	28	Don't Throw Your Love Away - The Searchers	28		26		26
27	29	Move Over Darling - Doris Day			27
NEW	30	Hold Me - P J Proby	29		30	24

		Don't Turn Around - The Merseybeats	30		29		27
		Near You - The Migil Five		27
		Don't Let The Sun Catch You Crying - Gerry and Pacemakers			28
		I Love Being In Love With You - Adam Faith		28
		Suspicion - Terry Stafford				28
		Hello Dolly - Kenny Ball		30
		Rosalyn - The Pretty Things				29
		Bama Lama Bama Loo - Little Richard					29
		Can't Buy Me Love - The Beatles					30

**MrTibbs** · Sun June 28, 2020, 15:09

Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending 20th June 1964.

The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending June 20th 1964			BBC	NME	MM	Disc	RR
Last	This		Chart	Chart	Chart	Chart	Chart
Week	Week	Title and Artist		Total Chart Positions			30
2	1	It's Over - Roy Orbison	1	1	1	1	2
1	2	You're My World - Cilla Black	2	2	2	2	1
4	3	Someone Someone - Brian Poole and The Tremeloes	3	3	3	3	3
3	4	Here I Go Again - The Hollies	4	4	4	5	4
6	5	My Guy - Mary Wells	5	5	5	4	5
11	6	Hello Dolly - Louis Armstrong	6	5	6	6	10
10	7	Shout - Lulu and The Luvvers	7	9	7	7	7
5	8	No Particular Place To Go - Chuck Berry	8	7	10	8	6
7	9	The Rise And Fall Of Flingel Bunt - The Shadows	9	10	8	10	8
12	10	Ramona - The Bachelors	10	8	9	9	12
8	11	Constantly - Cliff Richard	11	11	11	11	9
14	12	Can't You See That She's Mine - The Dave Clark Five	12	12	13	13	11
20	13	Nobody I Know - Peter and Gordon	13	14	12	12	14
9	14	Juliet - The Four Pennies	14	13	14	14	13
21	15	You're No Good - The Swinging Blue Jeans	15	16	15	15	16
17	16	I Love You Because - Jim Reeves	16	17	19	16	15
16	17	Non Ho L'Eta Per Amarti - Gigliola Cinquetti	17=	19	16	21	18
30	18	Hold Me - P J Proby	19	15	21	17	22
13	19	Walk On By - Dionne Warwick	17=	22	17	18	17
15	20	My Boy Lollipop - Millie	21	18	20	27	21
18	21	A Little Loving - The Fourmost	20	21	22	19	19
22	22	I Love You Baby - Freddie and The Dreamers	22	23	24	23	20
19	23	I Will - Billy Fury	24	27	18	28	23
26	24	Hello Dolly - Frankie Vaughan	23	20	26	22	26
23	25	Don't Let The Rain Come Down - Ronnie Hilton	26		23	26	24
NEW	26	Bama Lama Bama Loo - Little Richard	25	24	29	25	25
27	27	Ain't She Sweet - The Beatles	27		27	24	29
24	28	You're The One - Kathy Kirby	29		25		27
NEW	29	Dimples - John Lee Hooker	30=	24
NEW	30	Hello Dolly - Kenny Ball	30=	26		30	30

		Like Dreamers Do - The Applejacks	28			20
		I Love Being In Love With You - Adam Faith			28
		I Won't Forget You - Jim Reeves		28
		I Believe - The Bachelors			30		28
		Baby What's Wrong - The Downliners Sect		29
		I Wish You Would - The Yardbirds		30
		Chapel Of Love - The Dixie Cups				29

**MrTibbs** · Sun June 28, 2020, 15:11

Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending 27th June 1964.

The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending June 27th 1964			BBC	NME	MM	Disc	RR
Last	This		Chart	Chart	Chart	Chart	Chart
Week	Week	Title and Artist		Total Chart Positions			30
1	1	It's Over - Roy Orbison	1	1	1	1	1
3	2	Someone Someone - Brian Poole and The Tremeloes	2	2	2	2	2
6	3	Hello Dolly - Louis Armstrong	3=	3	3	4	4
2	4	You're My World - Cilla Black	3=	4	4	3	3
10	5	Ramona - The Bachelors	5	5	5	5	6
5	6	My Guy - Mary Wells	6	6	7	6	5
4	7	Here I Go Again - The Hollies	7	7	8	7	7
13	8	Nobody I Know - Peter and Gordon	9	9	6	9	12
15	9	You're No Good - The Swinging Blue Jeans	8	8	9	8	8
7	10	Shout - Lulu and The Luvvers	10	11	10	10	9
12	11	Can't You See That She's Mine - The Dave Clark Five	11	11	11	12	10
9	12	The Rise And Fall Of Flingel Bunt - The Shadows	12	13	12	13	13
18	13	Hold Me - P J Proby	14	14	14	11	17
8	14	No Particular Place To Go - Chuck Berry	13	16	13	15	11
11	15	Constantly - Cliff Richard	15	18	15	16	16
NEW	16	House Of The Rising Sun - The Animals	18	10	19	14
14	17	Juliet - The Four Pennies	16	22	17	18	15
16	18	I Love You Because - Jim Reeves	17	20	18	21	14
NEW	19	I Won't Forget You - Jim Reeves	19=	15	21	17	24
24	20	Hello Dolly - Frankie Vaughan	19=	17	20	22	18
17	21	Non Ho L'Eta Per Amarti - Gigliola Cinquetti	21	23	16	23	21
26	22	Bama Lama Bama Loo - Little Richard	22	24	22	27	20
29	23	Dimples - John Lee Hooker	24	21	27	25	25
19	24	Walk On By - Dionne Warwick	23		23	24	19
NEW	25	Kissin' Cousins - Elvis Presley	26	19		19
NEW	26	Like Dreamers Do - The Applejacks	25		26	20	22
27	27	Ain't She Sweet - The Beatles	28	29	24	26	30
23	28	I Will - Billy Fury	27	30	25	30	23
30	29	Hello Dolly - Kenny Ball	30	24
NEW	30	Chapel Of Love - The Dixie Cups	29	26		28

		My Boy Lollipop - Millie			28		26
		Don't Let The Rain Come Down - Ronnie Hilton			29		27
		Near You - The Migil Five		27
		A Little Loving - The Fourmost		28			29
		Why Not Tonight - The Mojos			30	29
		I Love You Baby - Freddie and The Dreamers					28

**trebor** · Sun June 28, 2020, 15:20

Originally posted by MrTibbs View Post

The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending June 13th 1964			BBC	NME	MM	Disc	RR

	30	Hold Me - P J Proby	29		30	24

This is missing the "NEW" designation!
Doing a great job!

**membranemusic** · Sun June 28, 2020, 15:40

Hello MrTibbs
Yes, I would agree with what splodj says – all comments are related directly to your excellent and innovative calculations.

In response to my question about other journals, I agree with the lack of importance of Pop Weekly, for instance. I note your point that Music Echo was short-lived and of little long term consequence. However without meaning to bang any particular drum, I would suggest that Music Echo, with the first published UK Top 100, influenced Disc’s computation attitude when Disc took it over. Music Echo reputedly had a panel of dealers only a little less than the size of RR at that time, although their sojourn as Mersey Beat must have been considerably smaller and not national to start with. But I understand your point.

Secondly, if I may refer you to your chart of 28/3/64, as splodj has done already, and in response to your post #67, I note you agreed with the BBC decision of making Can’t Buy Me Love the No.1 that week. You made a quite rational editorial decision based on what we know now about RR at that time, but please advise what your dealer-weighted position would have been [as opposed to the would-have-been unweighted Joint 2].
I am intrigued, as it was possible on other weeks for an all-papers No. 2 record to reach the Average No.1 by accident due to disparity by 4 papers of the other records they believed were no. 1. This was not unknown in the LP chart from time to time, especially later on. Granted dealer–weighting might solve this, but how would you approach this particular problem?

Keep on please.

**Graham76man** · Sun June 28, 2020, 17:34

This is the advanced - meaning it could be altered - Real Chart for 28 June, which will cover Brian's next chart.

1 The Animals - House of the Rising Sun
2 The Rolling Stones - It's all over now
3 P.J. Proby - Hold me
4 Brian Poole and The Tremeloes - Someone someone
5 Swinging Blue Jeans - You're no good
6 Roy Orbison - It's over
7 Mary Wells - My guy
8 Peter And Gordon - Nobody I know
9 Dave Clark Five - Can't you see that she's mine
10 The Bachelors - Ramona
11 Louis Armstrong - Hello Dolly
12 Cilla Black - You're my world
13 Frankie Vaughan - Hello Dolly
14 Lulu and The Luvvers - Shout
15 Jim Reeves - I Won't forget you
16 The Hollies - Here I go again
17 Dixie Cups - Chapel of love
18 John Lee Hooker - Dimples
19 The Beatles - Ain't she sweet
20 Cliff Richard and the Shadows - On the beach
21 Buddy Holly - You've got love
22 Elvis Presley - Kissin' cousins
23 The Applejacks - Like dreamers do
24 Chuck Berry No particular place to go
25 The Shadows - The rise and fall of Flingel Bunt
26 Cliff Richard - Constantly
27 Little Richard - Bama lama bama loo
28 The Mojos - Why not tonight
29 Dusty Springfield - I just don't know what to do with myself
30 The Four Pennies - Juliet

This is the only week in 1964 I really got to work on, apart from the last chart of the year, which I needed for the first 1965 last week!
The Animals had climbed to the top that week from number 10, so NME chart was spot on for the position and Mary Wells fell from 1 to 7. I believe that the Stones were new at two!

**RokinRobinOfLocksley** · Sun June 28, 2020, 21:25

Brian, please do continue along with this thread. You are giving us important history, in multiple ways: (a) you’re giving us the charts as they were, (b) you’re exposing the weaknesses of Record Retailer (!!!), (c) you’re giving us a better combo chart than the BBC.

I understand your reasoning for your #1 override rule (like the BBC), and I don’t disagree necessarily with the outcome, but I’m slightly squeamish in general about the philosophy of creating special rules.

Another way around this would be to throw out the furthest outlier chart position of each record, but that would be complicated with # of record dealer weightings. Perhaps better to throw out Record Retailer all together, ha!

Another thought would be to assign chart position points based on the Michael Cable table of 1976 chart data, of actual record sales in % terms vs. chart position, and then apply the # of record dealer weightings. Where a #1 record averaged out to 9.51% of weekly sales, down to a #50 record at 0.32% of weekly sales. When using these numbers and the # of dealer weightings, for 28 Mar 1964 “Can’t Buy Me Love” (1-1-1-8) did indeed come out at #1, with 5440.45 points vs. 4179.85 points for “Little Children” (2-2-2-1).

But a big question is why did most Beatle records debut at #1 on all charts most of the time except for Record Retailer? True, NME and Disc included pre-orders in their numbers, while Melody Maker and Record Retailer did not. You could say The Beatles sold so many records their debut week that pre-orders didn’t make a difference one way or the other. Except Record Retailer was so lagging with no debuts at #1, why? Did half their shops not receive Beatle records on time? Or did those RR shops send in their sales returns early before the weekend was over, so they would arrive on time? Or did some RR shops cheat to get their sales in on time, by not reporting on Mon-Sat sales, but instead opted for Sat-Fri sales, thus shifting Saturday sales into the next week’s chart? Something was definitely amiss here. Yet another reason why RR was the least historical representative chart for the 60s.

As stated before, the BBC did a straight average of the other charts, but only included RR when it arrived on time, and on multiple/many occasions from 1962 to 1966 it did not. With Brian’s data, we can now do a straight flat average of the component charts (or get Brian to add that column!), compare it to the actual BBC chart positions, and detect when the BBC did not include RR for a given week. Or there could be other errors on a given week as well.

When it was mentioned by Alan Smith and/or Dave Taylor that Derek Chinnery let his daughter do BBC chart calculations, I should emphasize that I don’t read this as his daughter did this frequently, I would rather think sporadically. How old was his daughter?

I would like to see a “total chart points” column in these weekly Ultimate Charts.

Relating to Brian’s other thread on RM dealer charts 1954-55, I had mentioned that a graph curve of combo chart positions vs. total dealer chart inverse points looks very, very similar to a graph curve of combo chart positions vs. total record sales (from Michael Cable’s book). Adjusted for chart size and curve end points, the curve slopes of the two during their durations match up quite well. A family of very closely related curves even though they may not be identical at every point. I even did a test of one week of RM dealer charts, calculating the combo chart from total inverse points, and again from Michael Cable % sales weightings, and the results were remarkably similar curve wise. Though all the records didn’t match up exactly between the two methods; for example the #7 and #8 records might get swapped one method to the other. But as an approximate method, when you have nothing else to go by, total inverse points is a meaningful option, and was most reasonable for NME, RM, MM, Disc, and RR to use for the 50s & 60s. Curve wise not that far off from the better method of adding up of actual record sales. But it would help to see more BMRB/BARS data of the early 70s to flesh this out a little more. Would love to see more of those reports one day.

Keep going Brian !!!

**MrTibbs** · Sun June 28, 2020, 21:59

Guys thanks for all that and here are a few replies for u. Trevor, thanks I have added that new entry sign. Membrane, I had added just under No 30 that on points The Beatles would have entered at 2. Because No 1 is a special position only No 1 records are considered, firstly as on most charts and then by points if split between papers. This also ties into what Robin was saying. I agree I don't want special rules, only this one alone for No 1 and all other positions are consistently compiled year on year as per outlined at the start of the thread.

More charts for u tomorrow .

**MrTibbs** · Mon June 29, 2020, 11:39

Greetings Pop Pickers ! Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending 4th July 1964.

The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending July 4th 1964			BBC	NME	MM	Disc	RR
Last	This		Chart	Chart	Chart	Chart	Chart
Week	Week	Title and Artist		Total Chart Positions			30
16	1	House Of The Rising Sun - The Animals	1	1	1	1	6
1	2	It's Over - Roy Orbison	2	2	2	2	1
2	3	Someone Someone - Brian Poole and The Tremeloes	3	3	4	3	2
13	4	Hold Me - P J Proby	4	5	3	4	5
9	5	You're No Good - The Swinging Blue Jeans	5	6	5	6	3
3	6	Hello Dolly - Louis Armstrong	7	4	6	7	8
5	7	Ramona - The Bachelors	6	8	7	5	4
8	8	Nobody I Know - Peter and Gordon	8	9	9	8	10
6	9	My Guy - Mary Wells	9	11	10	10	9
NEW	10	It's All Over Now - The Rolling Stones	12	7	8	11	25
4	11	You're My World - Cilla Black	10	12	14	9	7
19	12	I Won't Forget You - Jim Reeves	11	10	13	14	12
11	13	Can't You See That She's Mine - The Dave Clark Five	13	16	12	15	11
10	14	Shout - Lulu and The Luvvers	14	17	11	17	13
25	15	Kissin' Cousins - Elvis Presley	15	14	16	12	17
7	16	Here I Go Again - The Hollies	16	15	15	16	14
NEW	17	Long Tall Sally (EP) - The Beatles	17	13	20	13
18	18	I Love You Because - Jim Reeves	21	21	13	21	16
12	19	The Rise And Fall Of Flingel Bunt - The Shadows	18	20	17	18	15
20	20	Hello Dolly - Frankie Vaughan	19	18	22	19	18
14	21	No Particular Place To Go - Chuck Berry	20	22	19	20	19
26	22	Like Dreamers Do - The Applejacks	22	30	18	22	20
15	23	Constantly - Cliff Richard	23	28	21	26	21
22	24	Bama Lama Bama Loo - Little Richard	25	25	24	27	22
23	25	Dimples - John Lee Hooker	24	24	26	24	23
30	26	Chapel Of Love - The Dixie Cups	26	23	27	25	26
NEW	27	On The Beach - Cliff Richard	27	18		23
21	28	Non Ho L'Eta Per Amarti - Gigliola Cinquetti	28		25	29	28
27	29	Ain't She Sweet - The Beatles	29=		28	28	29
NEW	30	Sweet William - Millie		26		30

		Why Not Tonight - The Mojos		30	29		27
		Juliet - The Four Pennies	29=		30		24
		Hello Dolly - Kenny Ball		27
		I Just Don't Know What To Do With Myself - Dusty Springfield		29
		Don't Let The Rain Come Down - Ronnie Hilton					30

**kingofskiffle** · Mon June 29, 2020, 11:52

Test post to try something to see if an issue with the board software has been fixed for this thread.

**Graham76man** · Mon June 29, 2020, 12:04

Would these individual charts still be compiled from shops sending the top ten records, or had they expanded the figure on some?
Also the shops sending in LP's. Were they doing that because they were "thick" or just didn't really care about the list they sent in? I wonder if someone told them off for sending LP returns? Plus did most of the shops stick to the rules, sending only 45's returns, with just a few listing LP's? It would explain why the LP's don't get high positions. Especially as the new Beatles albums would have probably sold more than number one singles.
Lot's of questions I know, but somebody might know.

**MrTibbs** · Mon June 29, 2020, 13:36

I would believe by this time by this time Graham that all charts were getting returns of more than a Top Ten, I know RR were from their meagre 85 returns.

**MrTibbs** · Mon June 29, 2020, 13:41

Greetings Pop Pickers ! Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending 11th July 1964.

On my copy of the BBC chart Jim Reeves was noted to be 7= but the Bachelors listed at 8 however it is clear that both scored 31 points from the 4 charts scores so both should indeed have been 7=.

The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending July 11th 1964			BBC	NME	MM	Disc	RR
Last	This		Chart	Chart	Chart	Chart	Chart
Week	Week	Title and Artist		Total Chart Positions			30
1	1	House Of The Rising Sun - The Animals	1	1	2	1	1
10	2	It's All Over Now - The Rolling Stones	2	2	1	2	2
4	3	Hold Me - P J Proby	3	3	3	3	3
2	4	It's Over - Roy Orbison	4	4	5	4	5
5	5	You're No Good - The Swinging Blue Jeans	5	5	4	5	7
3	6	Someone Someone - Brian Poole and The Tremeloes	6	6	6	6	4
12	7	I Won't Forget You - Jim Reeves	7=	7	7	9	8
7	8	Ramona - The Bachelors	7=	10	8	7	6
6	9	Hello Dolly - Louis Armstrong	9	8	9	8	9
15	10	Kissin' Cousins - Elvis Presley	10	9	10	12	10
8	11	Nobody I Know - Peter and Gordon	11	12	11	10	11
17	12	Long Tall Sally (EP) - The Beatles	12	11	15	11
27	13	On The Beach - Cliff Richard	13	13	14	14	13
13	14	Can't You See That She's Mine - The Dave Clark Five	14	17	12	13	14
9	15	My Guy - Mary Wells	15	16	13	16	12
NEW	16	I Just Don't Know What To Do With Myself - Dusty Springfield	16	14	19	15	18
14	17	Shout - Lulu and The Luvvers	17	19	16	19	17
11	18	You're My World - Cilla Black	18	26	17	18	15
16	19	Here I Go Again - The Hollies	19	24	20	17	16
22	20	Like Dreamers Do - The Applejacks	20	23	18	20	21
20	21	Hello Dolly - Frankie Vaughan	21	18	22	22	20
26	22	Chapel Of Love - The Dixie Cups	22	20	25	23	22
19	23	The Rise And Fall Of Flingel Bunt - The Shadows	23		21	21	19
25	24	Dimples - John Lee Hooker	24	27	23	26	24
30	25	Sweet William - Millie	26	15	30	29
18	26	I Love You Because - Jim Reeves	25	28	24	28	23
NEW	27	Wishin' And Hopin' - The Merseybeats	27	22		24	30
NEW	28	Tobacco Road - The Nashville Teens	28	21		27
24	29	Bama Lama Bama Loo - Little Richard	29=		27	30	26
21	30	No Particular Place To Go - Chuck Berry			26		28

		Why Not Tonight - The Mojos	29=	30	28		25
		Near You - The Migil Five		25
		Call Up The Groups - The Barron Knights		28		25
		Constantly - Cliff Richard			29
		Non Ho L'Eta Per Amarti - Gigliola Cinquetti					27
		Ain't She Sweet - The Beatles					29

**RokinRobinOfLocksley** · Mon June 29, 2020, 16:00

For you interested chart freaks, for the week ending 4 July 1964, the BBC gave the #1 to "House of the Rising Sun" at (1-1-1-6) = 9 fewest non-inverse chart points, instead of "It's Over" at (2-2-2-1) = 7 points. This was another case where Auntie Beeb invoked their special #1 override rule, where the BBC #1 goes to the record at #1 on most of the charts. Brian's # of dealers weighted calcs resulted in the #1 going to "House" without having to invoke his special #1 rule.

If you have the earlier version of the Trevor Ager/Dave Taylor BBC chart file, it shows "It's Over" at #1 for this week, but later corrected revised files give it back to "House". And multiple year-end historical documentation and next week audio evidence supports "House", we just don't yet have an actual audio or video tape for this week. "House" was #1 on 4 July 1964 despite multiple websites that give it to "It's Over", all of which were sourced from the earlier incorrect version of the Trevor/Dave BBC chart file.

Rock on...

**MrTibbs** · Mon June 29, 2020, 17:35

You are spot on with that Robin. I actually heard a Pick Of The Pops chart rundown with Alan Freeman for that week some time back and it confirms Roy Orbison coming down from No 1.

By the way guys I'm just about to post the chart for 18th July, but I've had a few requests, Robin included, who helped me with the spreadsheet, to give the points as well for each chart position so from tomorrow I will post this information too.

Brian

**MrTibbs** · Mon June 29, 2020, 17:38

Greetings Pop Pickers ! Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending 18th July 1964.

The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending July 18th 1964			BBC	NME	MM	Disc	RR
Last	This		Chart	Chart	Chart	Chart	Chart
Week	Week	Title and Artist		Total Chart Positions			30
NEW	1	A Hard Day's Night - The Beatles	1	1	1	1	3
2	2	It's All Over Now - The Rolling Stones	2	2	2	2	1
1	3	House Of The Rising Sun - The Animals	3	3	3	3	2
3	4	Hold Me - P J Proby	4	4	4	4	5
16	5	I Just Don't Know What To Do With Myself - Dusty Springfield	5	5	5	5	6
7	6	I Won't Forget You - Jim Reeves	6	5	8	6	4
5	7	You're No Good - The Swinging Blue Jeans	7	8	6	8	8
13	8	On The Beach - Cliff Richard	8	7	10	7	9
4	9	It's Over - Roy Orbison	9	12	7	9	7
6	10	Someone Someone - Brian Poole and The Tremeloes	10	9	9	10	10
10	11	Kissin' Cousins - Elvis Presley	11	10	11	15	11
9	12	Hello Dolly - Louis Armstrong	12	13	12	12	13
NEW	13	Call Up The Groups - The Barron Knights	13	10	13	13	17
12	14	Long Tall Sally (EP) - The Beatles	15	14	14	14
8	15	Ramona - The Bachelors	14	17	15	11	12
11	16	Nobody I Know - Peter and Gordon	16	21	16	16	14
27	17	Wishin' And Hopin' - The Merseybeats	17	19	18	19	18
NEW	18	Someday We're Gonna Love Again - The Searchers	19	15	20	21	22
14	19	Can't You See That She's Mine - The Dave Clark Five	18	26	19	18	15
20	20	Like Dreamers Do - The Applejacks	21	24	17	26	21
28	21	Tobacco Road - The Nashville Teens	22	15	26	24	26
15	22	My Guy - Mary Wells	20	22	30	17	16
NEW	23	Do Wah Diddy Diddy - Manfred Mann	24=	25	23	23	30
25	24	Sweet William - Millie	24=	18	27	27
18	25	You're My World - Cilla Black	27	30	22		20
17	26	Shout - Lulu and The Lovers	26		24	28	19
NEW	27	Why Not Tonight - The Mojos	29		21		27
21	28	Hello Dolly - Frankie Vaughan	28	20		25
22	29	Chapel Of Love - The Dixie Cups			25	29	28
NEW	30	Near You - The Migil Five		23

		A Hard Day's Night (LP) - The Beatles	23	29		20
		I Get Around - The Beach Boys	30	28		22
		I Love You Because - Jim Reeves			29		25
		Dimples - John Lee Hooker			28		29
		Hello Dolly - Kenny Ball		27
		Here I Go Again - The Hollies				30	24
		The Rise And Fall Of Flingel Bunt - The Shadows					23

**MrTibbs** · Tue June 30, 2020, 11:15

Greetings Pop Pickers ! Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending 25th July 1964.

As mentioned yesterday all charts from here on will include the allocated points for your further interest.

Just to remind you, The BBC Charts are posted just for your information. They are NOT included in the Ultimate Averaged Chart calculations.

The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending July 25th 1964			BBC	NME	MM	Disc	RR	Total
Last	This		Chart	Chart	Chart	Chart	Chart	Points
Week	Week	Title and Artist	Number Of Chart Positions				30	Scored
1	1	A Hard Day's Night - The Beatles	1	1	1	1	1	19050
2	2	It's All Over Now - The Rolling Stones	2	2	2	2	2	18415
5	3	I Just Don't Know What To Do With Myself - Dusty Springfield	3	3	3	3	3	17780
3	4	House Of The Rising Sun - The Animals	4	4	5	4	5	16810
4	5	Hold Me - P J Proby	5	6	4	5	7	16390
13	6	Call Up The Groups - The Barron Knights	6	5	7	7	6	15725
6	7	I Won't Forget You - Jim Reeves	7	8	6	8	4	15445
23	8	Do Wah Diddy Diddy - Manfred Mann	8	7	8	6	9	14920
8	9	On The Beach - Cliff Richard	9	9	9	9	8	14055
21	10	Tobacco Road - The Nashville Teens	10	9	11	11	12	13015
11	11	Kissin' Cousins - Elvis Presley	11	13	10	14	11	12250
7	12	You're No Good - The Swinging Blue Jeans	12	12	14	10	14	11595
9	13	It's Over - Roy Orbison	13	17	13	13	10	10885
18	14	Someday We're Gonna Love Again - The Searchers	14	11	16	17	13	10680
17	15	Wishin' And Hopin' - The Merseybeats	16	15	12	19	16	10425
10	16	Someone Someone - Brian Poole and The Tremeloes	15	14	15	16	15	10260
14	17	Long Tall Sally (EP) - The Beatles	17	18	17	12		9309
12	18	Hello Dolly - Louis Armstrong	18	16	18	18	17	8740
15	19	Ramona - The Bachelors	19	21	19	15	18	7705
NEW	20	I Get Around - The Beach Boys	20	19	20	21	20	7085
NEW	21	It's Only Make Believe - Billy Fury	23	20	25	22		4600
16	22	Nobody I Know - Peter and Gordon	25	30	21	23	26	3925
20	23	Like Dreamers Do - The Applejacks	24	28	23	27	22	3765
NEW	24	(They Call Her) La Bamba - The Crickets	30	25	22			3450
24	25	Sweet William - Millie	27=	22	26	29		3250
22	26	My Guy - Mary Wells	21	24	29	28	19	3220
NEW	27	I Found Out The Hard Way - The Four Pennies	26		28	24	23	2130
28	28	Hello Dolly - Frankie Vaughan	27=	26		26	25	2010
27	29	Why Not Tonight - The Mojos			24			1750
19	30	Can't You See That She's Mine - The Dave Clark Five	27=			25	21	1450

		A Hard Day's Night (LP) - The Beatles	22	23		20
		From A Window - Billy J Kramer and The Dakotas			27			1000
		Chapel Of Love - The Dixie Cups		27		30	30	985
		You're My World - Cilla Black		29			27	740
		Dimples - John Lee Hooker					24	595
		I Love You Because - Jim Reeves			30		29	420
		Shout - Lulu and The Luvvers					28	255

**RokinRobinOfLocksley** · Tue June 30, 2020, 12:50

Brian, maybe you'd like to shade the BBC column with a different colour so that it stands out slightly from the 4 component charts...

And how about including the LP total points? Even though you're not including LPs in the Top 30, you could still show the total points...

And how about shading RR EP cells with a different colour, to indicate that while RR didn't include EPs in their singles chart, you have assigned them a RR value so as not to penalize the EP in total points. I'm not saying put your assigned RR points in the RR cell, just shade the cell...

**MrTibbs** · Tue June 30, 2020, 13:35

Great minds and all that Robin, I had changed the BBC column colour to the same as the rest, didn't like it as I remembered I made it different in the first place to differentiate between it and the charts for compilation but forgot to change it back.
You want the points for albums too, no problem lol.

Announcement

The Ultimate Averaged Chart - The BBC Chart Re-Imagined

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment