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The Ultimate Averaged Chart - The BBC Chart Re-Imagined

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  • The nearest thing to the BBC chart appearing in print appears to be the 'Pop Weekly' Top 30. I've checked a few weeks and the Top 10 is the same as the BBC's the previous week, with positions 11-30 somewhat different. Perhaps they did their own averaging.

    https://worldradiohistory.com/Pop-Weekly-UK.htm

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Splodj View Post
      The nearest thing to the BBC chart appearing in print appears to be the 'Pop Weekly' Top 30. I've checked a few weeks and the Top 10 is the same as the BBC's the previous week, with positions 11-30 somewhat different. Perhaps they did their own averaging.

      https://worldradiohistory.com/Pop-Weekly-UK.htm
      From Alan Smith's 50s & 60s UK Chart History article:

      Pop Weekly’s chart was compiled by averaging out the charts of New Musical Express, Melody Maker, Disc and Record Retailer in similar mode to the BBC method. However Pop Weekly also received advance sales figures from record companies and sampled around 20 to 30 stores to get its chart.

      Comment


      • Interesting.

        By 1966 Disc had stopped including LPs in their main chart. Did the BBC then apply their odd-one-out policy and exclude LPs from their composite chart as NME were the only one left doing it?

        Comment


        • Hmmmm. Seems I am wasting my time compiling and posting the Ultimate Chart here. Seems like most interest and conversation centres around Record Labels, the BBC Chart and Pop Weekly Chart.
          The Ultimate Averaged Chart. The Definitive Chart Reflecting The Fifties and Sixties.

          Comment


          • Please continue compiling and posting the Ultimate Averaged Chart. It Is interesting to see how it differs from its component charts.

            Comment


            • Brian - I see the discussion as arising out of your charts rather than in conflict with them. If there was another composite chart printed at the time then this is a relevant point. The question of whether to include LPs and the odd-one-out principle in general is also relevant. The 'record label' post specifically asked for comments so I provided one; I do not think you should include record lables.

              If there is anything in particular that you would like us to comment on?

              Comment


              • OK. Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending 13th June 1964.
                The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending June 13th 1964 BBC NME MM Disc RR
                Last This Chart Chart Chart Chart Chart
                Week Week Title and Artist Total Chart Positions 30
                1 1 You're My World - Cilla Black 1 1 1 1 1
                2 2 It's Over - Roy Orbison 2 2 2 2 2
                7 3 Here I Go Again - The Hollies 3= 5 3 3 8
                11 4 Someone Someone - Brian Poole and The Tremeloes 3= 6 5 4 4
                6 5 No Particular Place To Go - Chuck Berry 5 4 8 5 3
                10 6 My Guy - Mary Wells 6 3 7 6 9
                5 7 The Rise And Fall Of Flingel Bunt - The Shadows 8= 10 4 8 7
                4 8 Constantly - Cliff Richard 8= 8 6 9 6
                3 9 Juliet - The Four Pennies 7 7 9 7 5
                14 10 Shout - Lulu and The Luvvers 10 12 10 10 10
                23 11 Hello Dolly - Louis Armstrong 11 9 11 12 18
                24 12 Ramona - The Bachelors 12 11 12 11 19
                12 13 Walk On By - Dionne Warwick 14 16 13 17 13
                18 14 Can't You See That She's Mine - The Dave Clark Five 13 18 15 13 11
                8 15 My Boy Lollipop - Millie 15 13 17 15 15
                15 16 Non Ho L'Eta Per Amarti - Gigliola Cinquetti 18 15 14 20 17
                13 17 I Love You Because - Jim Reeves 16 19 16 14 12
                9 18 A Little Loving - The Fourmost 17 14 19 19 14
                16 19 I Will - Billy Fury 19 20 18 18 20
                28 20 Nobody I Know - Peter and Gordon 20 20 20 16 23
                NEW 21 You're No Good - The Swinging Blue Jeans 21= 17 23 21 25
                20 22 I Love You Baby - Freddie and The Dreamers 21= 25 22 23 16
                22 23 Don't Let The Rain Come Down - Ronnie Hilton 23 23 25 22 21
                21 24 You're The One - Kathy Kirby 24 26 21 27 22
                17 25 I Believe - The Bachelors 25 29 24 26 24
                NEW 26 Hello Dolly - Frankie Vaughan 26 20 30 28
                NEW 27 Ain't She Sweet - The Beatles 27 24 25
                19 28 Don't Throw Your Love Away - The Searchers 28 26 26
                27 29 Move Over Darling - Doris Day 27
                NEW 30 Hold Me - P J Proby 29 30 24
                Don't Turn Around - The Merseybeats 30 29 27
                Near You - The Migil Five 27
                Don't Let The Sun Catch You Crying - Gerry and Pacemakers 28
                I Love Being In Love With You - Adam Faith 28
                Suspicion - Terry Stafford 28
                Hello Dolly - Kenny Ball 30
                Rosalyn - The Pretty Things 29
                Bama Lama Bama Loo - Little Richard 29
                Can't Buy Me Love - The Beatles 30
                Last edited by MrTibbs; Sun June 28, 2020, 20:31.
                The Ultimate Averaged Chart. The Definitive Chart Reflecting The Fifties and Sixties.

                Comment


                • Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending 20th June 1964.

                  The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending June 20th 1964 BBC NME MM Disc RR
                  Last This Chart Chart Chart Chart Chart
                  Week Week Title and Artist Total Chart Positions 30
                  2 1 It's Over - Roy Orbison 1 1 1 1 2
                  1 2 You're My World - Cilla Black 2 2 2 2 1
                  4 3 Someone Someone - Brian Poole and The Tremeloes 3 3 3 3 3
                  3 4 Here I Go Again - The Hollies 4 4 4 5 4
                  6 5 My Guy - Mary Wells 5 5 5 4 5
                  11 6 Hello Dolly - Louis Armstrong 6 5 6 6 10
                  10 7 Shout - Lulu and The Luvvers 7 9 7 7 7
                  5 8 No Particular Place To Go - Chuck Berry 8 7 10 8 6
                  7 9 The Rise And Fall Of Flingel Bunt - The Shadows 9 10 8 10 8
                  12 10 Ramona - The Bachelors 10 8 9 9 12
                  8 11 Constantly - Cliff Richard 11 11 11 11 9
                  14 12 Can't You See That She's Mine - The Dave Clark Five 12 12 13 13 11
                  20 13 Nobody I Know - Peter and Gordon 13 14 12 12 14
                  9 14 Juliet - The Four Pennies 14 13 14 14 13
                  21 15 You're No Good - The Swinging Blue Jeans 15 16 15 15 16
                  17 16 I Love You Because - Jim Reeves 16 17 19 16 15
                  16 17 Non Ho L'Eta Per Amarti - Gigliola Cinquetti 17= 19 16 21 18
                  30 18 Hold Me - P J Proby 19 15 21 17 22
                  13 19 Walk On By - Dionne Warwick 17= 22 17 18 17
                  15 20 My Boy Lollipop - Millie 21 18 20 27 21
                  18 21 A Little Loving - The Fourmost 20 21 22 19 19
                  22 22 I Love You Baby - Freddie and The Dreamers 22 23 24 23 20
                  19 23 I Will - Billy Fury 24 27 18 28 23
                  26 24 Hello Dolly - Frankie Vaughan 23 20 26 22 26
                  23 25 Don't Let The Rain Come Down - Ronnie Hilton 26 23 26 24
                  NEW 26 Bama Lama Bama Loo - Little Richard 25 24 29 25 25
                  27 27 Ain't She Sweet - The Beatles 27 27 24 29
                  24 28 You're The One - Kathy Kirby 29 25 27
                  NEW 29 Dimples - John Lee Hooker 30= 24
                  NEW 30 Hello Dolly - Kenny Ball 30= 26 30 30
                  Like Dreamers Do - The Applejacks 28 20
                  I Love Being In Love With You - Adam Faith 28
                  I Won't Forget You - Jim Reeves 28
                  I Believe - The Bachelors 30 28
                  Baby What's Wrong - The Downliners Sect 29
                  I Wish You Would - The Yardbirds 30
                  Chapel Of Love - The Dixie Cups 29
                  The Ultimate Averaged Chart. The Definitive Chart Reflecting The Fifties and Sixties.

                  Comment


                  • Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending 27th June 1964.

                    The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending June 27th 1964 BBC NME MM Disc RR
                    Last This Chart Chart Chart Chart Chart
                    Week Week Title and Artist Total Chart Positions 30
                    1 1 It's Over - Roy Orbison 1 1 1 1 1
                    3 2 Someone Someone - Brian Poole and The Tremeloes 2 2 2 2 2
                    6 3 Hello Dolly - Louis Armstrong 3= 3 3 4 4
                    2 4 You're My World - Cilla Black 3= 4 4 3 3
                    10 5 Ramona - The Bachelors 5 5 5 5 6
                    5 6 My Guy - Mary Wells 6 6 7 6 5
                    4 7 Here I Go Again - The Hollies 7 7 8 7 7
                    13 8 Nobody I Know - Peter and Gordon 9 9 6 9 12
                    15 9 You're No Good - The Swinging Blue Jeans 8 8 9 8 8
                    7 10 Shout - Lulu and The Luvvers 10 11 10 10 9
                    12 11 Can't You See That She's Mine - The Dave Clark Five 11 11 11 12 10
                    9 12 The Rise And Fall Of Flingel Bunt - The Shadows 12 13 12 13 13
                    18 13 Hold Me - P J Proby 14 14 14 11 17
                    8 14 No Particular Place To Go - Chuck Berry 13 16 13 15 11
                    11 15 Constantly - Cliff Richard 15 18 15 16 16
                    NEW 16 House Of The Rising Sun - The Animals 18 10 19 14
                    14 17 Juliet - The Four Pennies 16 22 17 18 15
                    16 18 I Love You Because - Jim Reeves 17 20 18 21 14
                    NEW 19 I Won't Forget You - Jim Reeves 19= 15 21 17 24
                    24 20 Hello Dolly - Frankie Vaughan 19= 17 20 22 18
                    17 21 Non Ho L'Eta Per Amarti - Gigliola Cinquetti 21 23 16 23 21
                    26 22 Bama Lama Bama Loo - Little Richard 22 24 22 27 20
                    29 23 Dimples - John Lee Hooker 24 21 27 25 25
                    19 24 Walk On By - Dionne Warwick 23 23 24 19
                    NEW 25 Kissin' Cousins - Elvis Presley 26 19 19
                    NEW 26 Like Dreamers Do - The Applejacks 25 26 20 22
                    27 27 Ain't She Sweet - The Beatles 28 29 24 26 30
                    23 28 I Will - Billy Fury 27 30 25 30 23
                    30 29 Hello Dolly - Kenny Ball 30 24
                    NEW 30 Chapel Of Love - The Dixie Cups 29 26 28
                    My Boy Lollipop - Millie 28 26
                    Don't Let The Rain Come Down - Ronnie Hilton 29 27
                    Near You - The Migil Five 27
                    A Little Loving - The Fourmost 28 29
                    Why Not Tonight - The Mojos 30 29
                    I Love You Baby - Freddie and The Dreamers 28
                    The Ultimate Averaged Chart. The Definitive Chart Reflecting The Fifties and Sixties.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by MrTibbs View Post
                      The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending June 13th 1964 BBC NME MM Disc RR
                      30 Hold Me - P J Proby 29 30 24
                      This is missing the "NEW" designation!
                      Doing a great job!
                      trebor's - 2016 in Country Music
                      trebor's - 2015 in Country Music

                      Comment


                      • Hello MrTibbs
                        Yes, I would agree with what splodj says – all comments are related directly to your excellent and innovative calculations.

                        In response to my question about other journals, I agree with the lack of importance of Pop Weekly, for instance. I note your point that Music Echo was short-lived and of little long term consequence. However without meaning to bang any particular drum, I would suggest that Music Echo, with the first published UK Top 100, influenced Disc’s computation attitude when Disc took it over. Music Echo reputedly had a panel of dealers only a little less than the size of RR at that time, although their sojourn as Mersey Beat must have been considerably smaller and not national to start with. But I understand your point.

                        Secondly, if I may refer you to your chart of 28/3/64, as splodj has done already, and in response to your post #67, I note you agreed with the BBC decision of making Can’t Buy Me Love the No.1 that week. You made a quite rational editorial decision based on what we know now about RR at that time, but please advise what your dealer-weighted position would have been [as opposed to the would-have-been unweighted Joint 2].
                        I am intrigued, as it was possible on other weeks for an all-papers No. 2 record to reach the Average No.1 by accident due to disparity by 4 papers of the other records they believed were no. 1. This was not unknown in the LP chart from time to time, especially later on. Granted dealer–weighting might solve this, but how would you approach this particular problem?

                        Keep on please.

                        Comment


                        • Robbie
                          Robbie commented
                          Editing a comment
                          Hi membranemusic. I think you may have posted your reply in the wrong thread?

                        • trebor
                          trebor commented
                          Editing a comment
                          NOTE:
                          membranemusic & Robbie
                          Have moved this post from "Chart History" to here

                      • This is the advanced - meaning it could be altered - Real Chart for 28 June, which will cover Brian's next chart.

                        1 The Animals - House of the Rising Sun
                        2 The Rolling Stones - It's all over now
                        3 P.J. Proby - Hold me
                        4 Brian Poole and The Tremeloes - Someone someone
                        5 Swinging Blue Jeans - You're no good
                        6 Roy Orbison - It's over
                        7 Mary Wells - My guy
                        8 Peter And Gordon - Nobody I know
                        9 Dave Clark Five - Can't you see that she's mine
                        10 The Bachelors - Ramona
                        11 Louis Armstrong - Hello Dolly
                        12 Cilla Black - You're my world
                        13 Frankie Vaughan - Hello Dolly
                        14 Lulu and The Luvvers - Shout
                        15 Jim Reeves - I Won't forget you
                        16 The Hollies - Here I go again
                        17 Dixie Cups - Chapel of love
                        18 John Lee Hooker - Dimples
                        19 The Beatles - Ain't she sweet
                        20 Cliff Richard and the Shadows - On the beach
                        21 Buddy Holly - You've got love
                        22 Elvis Presley - Kissin' cousins
                        23 The Applejacks - Like dreamers do
                        24 Chuck Berry No particular place to go
                        25 The Shadows - The rise and fall of Flingel Bunt
                        26 Cliff Richard - Constantly
                        27 Little Richard - Bama lama bama loo
                        28 The Mojos - Why not tonight
                        29 Dusty Springfield - I just don't know what to do with myself
                        30 The Four Pennies - Juliet

                        This is the only week in 1964 I really got to work on, apart from the last chart of the year, which I needed for the first 1965 last week!
                        The Animals had climbed to the top that week from number 10, so NME chart was spot on for the position and Mary Wells fell from 1 to 7. I believe that the Stones were new at two!
                        Education for anyone aged 12 to 16 has made a mess of the world!

                        Comment


                        • Brian, please do continue along with this thread. You are giving us important history, in multiple ways: (a) you’re giving us the charts as they were, (b) you’re exposing the weaknesses of Record Retailer (!!!), (c) you’re giving us a better combo chart than the BBC.

                          I understand your reasoning for your #1 override rule (like the BBC), and I don’t disagree necessarily with the outcome, but I’m slightly squeamish in general about the philosophy of creating special rules.

                          Another way around this would be to throw out the furthest outlier chart position of each record, but that would be complicated with # of record dealer weightings. Perhaps better to throw out Record Retailer all together, ha!

                          Another thought would be to assign chart position points based on the Michael Cable table of 1976 chart data, of actual record sales in % terms vs. chart position, and then apply the # of record dealer weightings. Where a #1 record averaged out to 9.51% of weekly sales, down to a #50 record at 0.32% of weekly sales. When using these numbers and the # of dealer weightings, for 28 Mar 1964 “Can’t Buy Me Love” (1-1-1-8) did indeed come out at #1, with 5440.45 points vs. 4179.85 points for “Little Children” (2-2-2-1).

                          But a big question is why did most Beatle records debut at #1 on all charts most of the time except for Record Retailer? True, NME and Disc included pre-orders in their numbers, while Melody Maker and Record Retailer did not. You could say The Beatles sold so many records their debut week that pre-orders didn’t make a difference one way or the other. Except Record Retailer was so lagging with no debuts at #1, why? Did half their shops not receive Beatle records on time? Or did those RR shops send in their sales returns early before the weekend was over, so they would arrive on time? Or did some RR shops cheat to get their sales in on time, by not reporting on Mon-Sat sales, but instead opted for Sat-Fri sales, thus shifting Saturday sales into the next week’s chart? Something was definitely amiss here. Yet another reason why RR was the least historical representative chart for the 60s.

                          As stated before, the BBC did a straight average of the other charts, but only included RR when it arrived on time, and on multiple/many occasions from 1962 to 1966 it did not. With Brian’s data, we can now do a straight flat average of the component charts (or get Brian to add that column!), compare it to the actual BBC chart positions, and detect when the BBC did not include RR for a given week. Or there could be other errors on a given week as well.

                          When it was mentioned by Alan Smith and/or Dave Taylor that Derek Chinnery let his daughter do BBC chart calculations, I should emphasize that I don’t read this as his daughter did this frequently, I would rather think sporadically. How old was his daughter?

                          I would like to see a “total chart points” column in these weekly Ultimate Charts.

                          Relating to Brian’s other thread on RM dealer charts 1954-55, I had mentioned that a graph curve of combo chart positions vs. total dealer chart inverse points looks very, very similar to a graph curve of combo chart positions vs. total record sales (from Michael Cable’s book). Adjusted for chart size and curve end points, the curve slopes of the two during their durations match up quite well. A family of very closely related curves even though they may not be identical at every point. I even did a test of one week of RM dealer charts, calculating the combo chart from total inverse points, and again from Michael Cable % sales weightings, and the results were remarkably similar curve wise. Though all the records didn’t match up exactly between the two methods; for example the #7 and #8 records might get swapped one method to the other. But as an approximate method, when you have nothing else to go by, total inverse points is a meaningful option, and was most reasonable for NME, RM, MM, Disc, and RR to use for the 50s & 60s. Curve wise not that far off from the better method of adding up of actual record sales. But it would help to see more BMRB/BARS data of the early 70s to flesh this out a little more. Would love to see more of those reports one day.

                          Keep going Brian !!!

                          Comment


                          • Guys thanks for all that and here are a few replies for u. Trevor, thanks I have added that new entry sign. Membrane, I had added just under No 30 that on points The Beatles would have entered at 2. Because No 1 is a special position only No 1 records are considered, firstly as on most charts and then by points if split between papers. This also ties into what Robin was saying. I agree I don't want special rules, only this one alone for No 1 and all other positions are consistently compiled year on year as per outlined at the start of the thread.

                            More charts for u tomorrow .
                            The Ultimate Averaged Chart. The Definitive Chart Reflecting The Fifties and Sixties.

                            Comment


                            • Greetings Pop Pickers ! Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending 4th July 1964.

                              The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending July 4th 1964 BBC NME MM Disc RR
                              Last This Chart Chart Chart Chart Chart
                              Week Week Title and Artist Total Chart Positions 30
                              16 1 House Of The Rising Sun - The Animals 1 1 1 1 6
                              1 2 It's Over - Roy Orbison 2 2 2 2 1
                              2 3 Someone Someone - Brian Poole and The Tremeloes 3 3 4 3 2
                              13 4 Hold Me - P J Proby 4 5 3 4 5
                              9 5 You're No Good - The Swinging Blue Jeans 5 6 5 6 3
                              3 6 Hello Dolly - Louis Armstrong 7 4 6 7 8
                              5 7 Ramona - The Bachelors 6 8 7 5 4
                              8 8 Nobody I Know - Peter and Gordon 8 9 9 8 10
                              6 9 My Guy - Mary Wells 9 11 10 10 9
                              NEW 10 It's All Over Now - The Rolling Stones 12 7 8 11 25
                              4 11 You're My World - Cilla Black 10 12 14 9 7
                              19 12 I Won't Forget You - Jim Reeves 11 10 13 14 12
                              11 13 Can't You See That She's Mine - The Dave Clark Five 13 16 12 15 11
                              10 14 Shout - Lulu and The Luvvers 14 17 11 17 13
                              25 15 Kissin' Cousins - Elvis Presley 15 14 16 12 17
                              7 16 Here I Go Again - The Hollies 16 15 15 16 14
                              NEW 17 Long Tall Sally (EP) - The Beatles 17 13 20 13
                              18 18 I Love You Because - Jim Reeves 21 21 13 21 16
                              12 19 The Rise And Fall Of Flingel Bunt - The Shadows 18 20 17 18 15
                              20 20 Hello Dolly - Frankie Vaughan 19 18 22 19 18
                              14 21 No Particular Place To Go - Chuck Berry 20 22 19 20 19
                              26 22 Like Dreamers Do - The Applejacks 22 30 18 22 20
                              15 23 Constantly - Cliff Richard 23 28 21 26 21
                              22 24 Bama Lama Bama Loo - Little Richard 25 25 24 27 22
                              23 25 Dimples - John Lee Hooker 24 24 26 24 23
                              30 26 Chapel Of Love - The Dixie Cups 26 23 27 25 26
                              NEW 27 On The Beach - Cliff Richard 27 18 23
                              21 28 Non Ho L'Eta Per Amarti - Gigliola Cinquetti 28 25 29 28
                              27 29 Ain't She Sweet - The Beatles 29= 28 28 29
                              NEW 30 Sweet William - Millie 26 30
                              Why Not Tonight - The Mojos 30 29 27
                              Juliet - The Four Pennies 29= 30 24
                              Hello Dolly - Kenny Ball 27
                              I Just Don't Know What To Do With Myself - Dusty Springfield 29
                              Don't Let The Rain Come Down - Ronnie Hilton 30
                              The Ultimate Averaged Chart. The Definitive Chart Reflecting The Fifties and Sixties.

                              Comment


                              • Test post to try something to see if an issue with the board software has been fixed for this thread.
                                http://thechartbook.co.uk - for the latest are best chart book - By Decade!
                                Now including NME, Record Mirror and Melody Maker from the UK and some Billboard charts

                                Comment


                                • Would these individual charts still be compiled from shops sending the top ten records, or had they expanded the figure on some?
                                  Also the shops sending in LP's. Were they doing that because they were "thick" or just didn't really care about the list they sent in? I wonder if someone told them off for sending LP returns? Plus did most of the shops stick to the rules, sending only 45's returns, with just a few listing LP's? It would explain why the LP's don't get high positions. Especially as the new Beatles albums would have probably sold more than number one singles.
                                  Lot's of questions I know, but somebody might know.
                                  Education for anyone aged 12 to 16 has made a mess of the world!

                                  Comment


                                  • I would believe by this time by this time Graham that all charts were getting returns of more than a Top Ten, I know RR were from their meagre 85 returns.
                                    The Ultimate Averaged Chart. The Definitive Chart Reflecting The Fifties and Sixties.

                                    Comment


                                    • Greetings Pop Pickers ! Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending 11th July 1964.

                                      On my copy of the BBC chart Jim Reeves was noted to be 7= but the Bachelors listed at 8 however it is clear that both scored 31 points from the 4 charts scores so both should indeed have been 7=.
                                      The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending July 11th 1964 BBC NME MM Disc RR
                                      Last This Chart Chart Chart Chart Chart
                                      Week Week Title and Artist Total Chart Positions 30
                                      1 1 House Of The Rising Sun - The Animals 1 1 2 1 1
                                      10 2 It's All Over Now - The Rolling Stones 2 2 1 2 2
                                      4 3 Hold Me - P J Proby 3 3 3 3 3
                                      2 4 It's Over - Roy Orbison 4 4 5 4 5
                                      5 5 You're No Good - The Swinging Blue Jeans 5 5 4 5 7
                                      3 6 Someone Someone - Brian Poole and The Tremeloes 6 6 6 6 4
                                      12 7 I Won't Forget You - Jim Reeves 7= 7 7 9 8
                                      7 8 Ramona - The Bachelors 7= 10 8 7 6
                                      6 9 Hello Dolly - Louis Armstrong 9 8 9 8 9
                                      15 10 Kissin' Cousins - Elvis Presley 10 9 10 12 10
                                      8 11 Nobody I Know - Peter and Gordon 11 12 11 10 11
                                      17 12 Long Tall Sally (EP) - The Beatles 12 11 15 11
                                      27 13 On The Beach - Cliff Richard 13 13 14 14 13
                                      13 14 Can't You See That She's Mine - The Dave Clark Five 14 17 12 13 14
                                      9 15 My Guy - Mary Wells 15 16 13 16 12
                                      NEW 16 I Just Don't Know What To Do With Myself - Dusty Springfield 16 14 19 15 18
                                      14 17 Shout - Lulu and The Luvvers 17 19 16 19 17
                                      11 18 You're My World - Cilla Black 18 26 17 18 15
                                      16 19 Here I Go Again - The Hollies 19 24 20 17 16
                                      22 20 Like Dreamers Do - The Applejacks 20 23 18 20 21
                                      20 21 Hello Dolly - Frankie Vaughan 21 18 22 22 20
                                      26 22 Chapel Of Love - The Dixie Cups 22 20 25 23 22
                                      19 23 The Rise And Fall Of Flingel Bunt - The Shadows 23 21 21 19
                                      25 24 Dimples - John Lee Hooker 24 27 23 26 24
                                      30 25 Sweet William - Millie 26 15 30 29
                                      18 26 I Love You Because - Jim Reeves 25 28 24 28 23
                                      NEW 27 Wishin' And Hopin' - The Merseybeats 27 22 24 30
                                      NEW 28 Tobacco Road - The Nashville Teens 28 21 27
                                      24 29 Bama Lama Bama Loo - Little Richard 29= 27 30 26
                                      21 30 No Particular Place To Go - Chuck Berry 26 28
                                      Why Not Tonight - The Mojos 29= 30 28 25
                                      Near You - The Migil Five 25
                                      Call Up The Groups - The Barron Knights 28 25
                                      Constantly - Cliff Richard 29
                                      Non Ho L'Eta Per Amarti - Gigliola Cinquetti 27
                                      Ain't She Sweet - The Beatles 29
                                      Last edited by MrTibbs; Sun July 12, 2020, 20:16.
                                      The Ultimate Averaged Chart. The Definitive Chart Reflecting The Fifties and Sixties.

                                      Comment


                                      • For you interested chart freaks, for the week ending 4 July 1964, the BBC gave the #1 to "House of the Rising Sun" at (1-1-1-6) = 9 fewest non-inverse chart points, instead of "It's Over" at (2-2-2-1) = 7 points. This was another case where Auntie Beeb invoked their special #1 override rule, where the BBC #1 goes to the record at #1 on most of the charts. Brian's # of dealers weighted calcs resulted in the #1 going to "House" without having to invoke his special #1 rule.

                                        If you have the earlier version of the Trevor Ager/Dave Taylor BBC chart file, it shows "It's Over" at #1 for this week, but later corrected revised files give it back to "House". And multiple year-end historical documentation and next week audio evidence supports "House", we just don't yet have an actual audio or video tape for this week. "House" was #1 on 4 July 1964 despite multiple websites that give it to "It's Over", all of which were sourced from the earlier incorrect version of the Trevor/Dave BBC chart file.

                                        Rock on...

                                        Comment


                                        • You are spot on with that Robin. I actually heard a Pick Of The Pops chart rundown with Alan Freeman for that week some time back and it confirms Roy Orbison coming down from No 1.

                                          By the way guys I'm just about to post the chart for 18th July, but I've had a few requests, Robin included, who helped me with the spreadsheet, to give the points as well for each chart position so from tomorrow I will post this information too.

                                          Brian
                                          The Ultimate Averaged Chart. The Definitive Chart Reflecting The Fifties and Sixties.

                                          Comment


                                          • Greetings Pop Pickers ! Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending 18th July 1964.

                                            The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending July 18th 1964 BBC NME MM Disc RR
                                            Last This Chart Chart Chart Chart Chart
                                            Week Week Title and Artist Total Chart Positions 30
                                            NEW 1 A Hard Day's Night - The Beatles 1 1 1 1 3
                                            2 2 It's All Over Now - The Rolling Stones 2 2 2 2 1
                                            1 3 House Of The Rising Sun - The Animals 3 3 3 3 2
                                            3 4 Hold Me - P J Proby 4 4 4 4 5
                                            16 5 I Just Don't Know What To Do With Myself - Dusty Springfield 5 5 5 5 6
                                            7 6 I Won't Forget You - Jim Reeves 6 5 8 6 4
                                            5 7 You're No Good - The Swinging Blue Jeans 7 8 6 8 8
                                            13 8 On The Beach - Cliff Richard 8 7 10 7 9
                                            4 9 It's Over - Roy Orbison 9 12 7 9 7
                                            6 10 Someone Someone - Brian Poole and The Tremeloes 10 9 9 10 10
                                            10 11 Kissin' Cousins - Elvis Presley 11 10 11 15 11
                                            9 12 Hello Dolly - Louis Armstrong 12 13 12 12 13
                                            NEW 13 Call Up The Groups - The Barron Knights 13 10 13 13 17
                                            12 14 Long Tall Sally (EP) - The Beatles 15 14 14 14
                                            8 15 Ramona - The Bachelors 14 17 15 11 12
                                            11 16 Nobody I Know - Peter and Gordon 16 21 16 16 14
                                            27 17 Wishin' And Hopin' - The Merseybeats 17 19 18 19 18
                                            NEW 18 Someday We're Gonna Love Again - The Searchers 19 15 20 21 22
                                            14 19 Can't You See That She's Mine - The Dave Clark Five 18 26 19 18 15
                                            20 20 Like Dreamers Do - The Applejacks 21 24 17 26 21
                                            28 21 Tobacco Road - The Nashville Teens 22 15 26 24 26
                                            15 22 My Guy - Mary Wells 20 22 30 17 16
                                            NEW 23 Do Wah Diddy Diddy - Manfred Mann 24= 25 23 23 30
                                            25 24 Sweet William - Millie 24= 18 27 27
                                            18 25 You're My World - Cilla Black 27 30 22 20
                                            17 26 Shout - Lulu and The Lovers 26 24 28 19
                                            NEW 27 Why Not Tonight - The Mojos 29 21 27
                                            21 28 Hello Dolly - Frankie Vaughan 28 20 25
                                            22 29 Chapel Of Love - The Dixie Cups 25 29 28
                                            NEW 30 Near You - The Migil Five 23
                                            A Hard Day's Night (LP) - The Beatles 23 29 20
                                            I Get Around - The Beach Boys 30 28 22
                                            I Love You Because - Jim Reeves 29 25
                                            Dimples - John Lee Hooker 28 29
                                            Hello Dolly - Kenny Ball 27
                                            Here I Go Again - The Hollies 30 24
                                            The Rise And Fall Of Flingel Bunt - The Shadows 23
                                            The Ultimate Averaged Chart. The Definitive Chart Reflecting The Fifties and Sixties.

                                            Comment


                                            • Greetings Pop Pickers ! Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending 25th July 1964.

                                              As mentioned yesterday all charts from here on will include the allocated points for your further interest.

                                              Just to remind you, The BBC Charts are posted just for your information. They are NOT included in the Ultimate Averaged Chart calculations.

                                              The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending July 25th 1964 BBC NME MM Disc RR Total
                                              Last This Chart Chart Chart Chart Chart Points
                                              Week Week Title and Artist Number Of Chart Positions 30 Scored
                                              1 1 A Hard Day's Night - The Beatles 1 1 1 1 1 19050
                                              2 2 It's All Over Now - The Rolling Stones 2 2 2 2 2 18415
                                              5 3 I Just Don't Know What To Do With Myself - Dusty Springfield 3 3 3 3 3 17780
                                              3 4 House Of The Rising Sun - The Animals 4 4 5 4 5 16810
                                              4 5 Hold Me - P J Proby 5 6 4 5 7 16390
                                              13 6 Call Up The Groups - The Barron Knights 6 5 7 7 6 15725
                                              6 7 I Won't Forget You - Jim Reeves 7 8 6 8 4 15445
                                              23 8 Do Wah Diddy Diddy - Manfred Mann 8 7 8 6 9 14920
                                              8 9 On The Beach - Cliff Richard 9 9 9 9 8 14055
                                              21 10 Tobacco Road - The Nashville Teens 10 9 11 11 12 13015
                                              11 11 Kissin' Cousins - Elvis Presley 11 13 10 14 11 12250
                                              7 12 You're No Good - The Swinging Blue Jeans 12 12 14 10 14 11595
                                              9 13 It's Over - Roy Orbison 13 17 13 13 10 10885
                                              18 14 Someday We're Gonna Love Again - The Searchers 14 11 16 17 13 10680
                                              17 15 Wishin' And Hopin' - The Merseybeats 16 15 12 19 16 10425
                                              10 16 Someone Someone - Brian Poole and The Tremeloes 15 14 15 16 15 10260
                                              14 17 Long Tall Sally (EP) - The Beatles 17 18 17 12 9309
                                              12 18 Hello Dolly - Louis Armstrong 18 16 18 18 17 8740
                                              15 19 Ramona - The Bachelors 19 21 19 15 18 7705
                                              NEW 20 I Get Around - The Beach Boys 20 19 20 21 20 7085
                                              NEW 21 It's Only Make Believe - Billy Fury 23 20 25 22 4600
                                              16 22 Nobody I Know - Peter and Gordon 25 30 21 23 26 3925
                                              20 23 Like Dreamers Do - The Applejacks 24 28 23 27 22 3765
                                              NEW 24 (They Call Her) La Bamba - The Crickets 30 25 22 3450
                                              24 25 Sweet William - Millie 27= 22 26 29 3250
                                              22 26 My Guy - Mary Wells 21 24 29 28 19 3220
                                              NEW 27 I Found Out The Hard Way - The Four Pennies 26 28 24 23 2130
                                              28 28 Hello Dolly - Frankie Vaughan 27= 26 26 25 2010
                                              27 29 Why Not Tonight - The Mojos 24 1750
                                              19 30 Can't You See That She's Mine - The Dave Clark Five 27= 25 21 1450
                                              A Hard Day's Night (LP) - The Beatles 22 23 20
                                              From A Window - Billy J Kramer and The Dakotas 27 1000
                                              Chapel Of Love - The Dixie Cups 27 30 30 985
                                              You're My World - Cilla Black 29 27 740
                                              Dimples - John Lee Hooker 24 595
                                              I Love You Because - Jim Reeves 30 29 420
                                              Shout - Lulu and The Luvvers 28 255
                                              The Ultimate Averaged Chart. The Definitive Chart Reflecting The Fifties and Sixties.

                                              Comment


                                              • Brian, maybe you'd like to shade the BBC column with a different colour so that it stands out slightly from the 4 component charts...

                                                And how about including the LP total points? Even though you're not including LPs in the Top 30, you could still show the total points...

                                                And how about shading RR EP cells with a different colour, to indicate that while RR didn't include EPs in their singles chart, you have assigned them a RR value so as not to penalize the EP in total points. I'm not saying put your assigned RR points in the RR cell, just shade the cell...
                                                Last edited by RokinRobinOfLocksley; Tue June 30, 2020, 12:21.

                                                Comment


                                                • Great minds and all that Robin, I had changed the BBC column colour to the same as the rest, didn't like it as I remembered I made it different in the first place to differentiate between it and the charts for compilation but forgot to change it back.
                                                  You want the points for albums too, no problem lol.
                                                  The Ultimate Averaged Chart. The Definitive Chart Reflecting The Fifties and Sixties.

                                                  Comment

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