The Ultimate Averaged Chart - The BBC Chart Re-Imagined

[MrTibbs]

I really, really like Colin's book as a reference guide. It makes a valuable contribution as to what record shops were ordering but not as a chart book to be taken too seriously. If it was a truly valid representation of what was selling over the counter as opposed to orders the OCC would have possibly accepted it as official for the period and they didn't so despite endorsement they didn't embrace it totally.

My main problem with Colin's book is this. If you compare the Sheet Music Chart with the early years of the NME chart both were similar in the records/songs that made both charts, albeit in differing positions. This shows a comparable consistency shared by both in what was popular. Both listed almost the same songs/records.
But if you compare the Sheet Music Chart with Colin's charts the difference is night and day. Much less similarity between both.

[Graham76man]

I do wonder how meaningful it would be to average Colin's record charts with the sheet music charts?

I think that would be very problematic indeed. For one thing the sheet music only has one title, but records in shops have many artists covering the same title. They even have two SM titles on each side. Some artist even have different SM titles on both sides, to each other.
The next problem you hit is the late arrival mostly in record shops. There's some titles in the SM charts that Colin never has an entry for. Or it arrives long after the SM chart has lost it. Sometimes I think Colin missed some records, especially Hoagy Carmichael - My Resistance Is Low! The title was big in the SM chart and is very well known tune. And I have noted that orders have dried up when that artist was selling like hot cakes!
Then there are a few records that never made the SM charts. The best examples being The Coronation Scot. And The Dick Barton Theme.
A few orchestras might be interested in the sheet music for them, but not the singalong piano players!
And the biggest issue would be Christmas tunes. Colin's chart fills up with them at the expense of all the sheet music songs. But as soon as the holiday is over, every Christmas tune vanishes (just like the iTunes downloads).

[RokinRobinOfLocksley]

While the OCC may have given Colin's book encouragement, support, and stamp of approval, they nonetheless have not recognized his work as 'official'.

Even if Colin's charts reflected records ordered, and thus weren't exact week to week, I would still think they would be more meaningful than less meaningful. Shops would have to keep re-ordering hit records as the public demanded. Thus the period of rising sales after release date would be more meaningful chart wise than the period of declining sales. When it's all you've got, it's all you've got.

I do wonder how meaningful it would be to average Colin's record charts with the sheet music charts?

[kjell]

I’ve checked Colin’s book. His associate Steve Waters that got it published thanks the OCC for their encouragement, support and stamp of approval, so we can only imagine what eventually may have come in return.

[MrTibbs]

Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending November 24th 1956

Here are all '' the uppers, the downers, the just hanging 'arounders '

The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending November 24th 1956							NME	MM	RM	Total
Last	This		The Sound Survey			Stores	65	20	60	Points
Week	Week		The Top 30 Singles Chart					TOP	30	Scored
1	1	Just Walking In The Rain - Johnnie Ray					1	1	1	4350
2	2	A Woman In Love - Frankie Laine					2	2	2	4205
3	3	Hound Dog - Elvis Presley (A)					3	5	4	3960
7	4	Green Door - Frankie Vaughan					4	3	5	3875
4	5	My Prayer - The Platters					6	4	3	3845
5	6	More - Jimmy Young					4	6	6	3755
11	7	When Mexico Gave Up the Rumba - Mitchell Torok					6	8	8	3465
6	8	Rip It Up - Bill Haley and His Comets					8	9	7	3375
12	9	St. Therese Of The Roses - Malcolm Vaughan					10	7	9	3165
15	10	Blue Moon - Elvis Presley (A)					9	10	10	3110
8	11	Rocking Through The Rye - Bill Haley and His Comets					11	11	11	2900
14	12	Make It A Party - Winifred Atwell					11	14	12	2780
17	13	Rock Around The Clock - Bill Haley and His Comets					13	14	15	2470
NEW	14	Cindy Oh Cindy - Eddie Fisher					15	17	14	2340
9	15	The Green Door - Jim Lowe					14		12	2245
18	16	Only You - The Platters						13	17	2240
16	17	Love Me As Though There Were No Tomorrow - Nat King Cole					17	20	20	1790
10	18	Lay Down Your Arms - Anne Shelton					19	20	18	1780
NEW	19	True Love - Bing Crosby and Grace Kelly					24		16	1355
19	20	More - Perry Como					16	18		1235
25	21	Two Different Worlds - Ronnie Hilton					18			845
NEW	22	Rudy's Rock - Bill Haley and His Comets					30		18	845
RE	23	In The Middle Of The House - Alma Cogan					20			715
22	24	Whatever Will Be Will Be - Doris Day					22			585
21	24	Autumn Concerto - The Melachrino Orchestra					22			585
13	26	Giddy-Up-A-Ding-Dong - Freddie Bell and The Bell Boys					28	16		495
28	27	Bring A Little Water Sylvie / Dead Or Alive - Lonnie Donegan					25			390
28	28	Don't Be Cruel - Elvis Presley (B)						12		380
NEW	29	I Don't Care If The Sun Don't Shine - Elvis Presley (B)					29	19		370
24	30	A House With Love In It - Vera Lynn					26			325
26		Green Door - Glen Mason					27			260
		Blueberry Hill - Fats Domino						20		220
		Only You / The Great Pretender - The Platters					21
20		Rock With The Caveman - Tommy Steele
23		Blue Jean Bop - Gene Vincent
27		In The Middle Of The House - Jimmy Parkinson
30		Tonight You Belong To Me - Patience and Prudence

[Graham76man]

Colin was a bit more vocal on the NME chart - made up by the office girls was his thoughts!

[MrTibbs]

Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending November 17th 1956

Here are all '' the uppers, the downers, the just hanging 'arounders '

The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending November 17th 1956							NME	MM	RM	Total
Last	This		The Sound Survey			Stores	65	20	60	Points
Week	Week		The Top 30 Singles Chart					TOP	30	Scored
1	1	Just Walking In The Rain - Johnnie Ray					1	1	1	4350
2	2	A Woman In Love - Frankie Laine					2	2	2	4205
3	3	Hound Dog - Elvis Presley (A)					3	3	3	4060
4	4	My Prayer - The Platters					4	3	4	3935
5	5	More - Jimmy Young					4	5	5	3835
18	6	Rip It Up - Bill Haley and His Comets					6	8	8	3465
17	7	Green Door - Frankie Vaughan					9	7	6	3410
6	8	Rocking Through The Rye - Bill Haley and His Comets					7	6	9	3380
12	9	The Green Door - Jim Lowe					8	17	10	3035
7	10	Lay Down Your Arms - Anne Shelton					10	10	11	2985
11	11	When Mexico Gave Up The Rumba - Mitchell Torok					15	9	7	2920
NEW	12	St. Therese Of The Roses - Malcolm Vaughan					12	12	14	2635
8	13	Giddy-Up-A-Ding-Dong - Freddie Bell and The Bell Boys					15	11	13	2520
13	14	Make It A Party - Winifred Atwell					13	15	15	2450
NEW	15	Blue Moon - Elvis Presley					15	19	12	2420
20	16	Love Me As Though There Were No Tomorrow - Nat King Cole					11		16	2200
9	17	Rock Around The Clock - Bill Haley and His Comets					14	16	18	2185
15	18	Only You - The Platters						13	18	2148
10	19	More - Perry Como					18	14	17	2025
14	20	Rock With The Caveman - Tommy Steele					18		20	1505
22	21	Autumn Concerto - The Melachrino Orchestra					22	18		845
19	22	Whatever Will Be Will Be - Doris Day					20			715
16	23	Blue Jean Bop - Gene Vincent					21			650
27	24	A House With Love In It - Vera Lynn					25	20		610
30	25	Two Different Worlds - Ronnie Hilton					24			455
NEW	26	Green Door - Glen Mason					26			325
26	27	In The Middle Of The House - Jimmy Parkinson					27			260
21	28	Don't Be Cruel - Elvis Presley (B)						20		220
28	28	Dead Or Alive - Lonnie Donegan						20		220
29	30	Tonight You Belong To Me - Patience and Prudence					29			130
23		Ying Tong Song / Bloodnok's Rock'n'Roll Call - The Goons					30			65
		Only You / The Great Pretender - The Platters					23
		Bring A Little Water Sylvie / Dead Or Alive - Lonnie Donegan					27
24		I'm In Love Again - Fats Domino
25		See You Later Alligator - Bill Haley and His Comets

[MrTibbs]

But even if Colin had extended further it would still not be a like for like comparison with NME. Theirs was a sales chart Colin's was a chart of what shops were ordering and not necessarily selling. It's a bit like comparing the BMRB chart based on actual sales with the store returns from NME and MM come 1969. We identified that as an 'oranges and lemons' scenario when I did the 'fun' UAC for the early BMRB era.

For the forties into the mid fifties I think the Sheet Music Chart was a better indicator of actual popularity and certainly more accurately compiled.

Anyway here's the UAC for November 17th 1956.

[Splodj]

It may have been a condition of the OCC giving the book their blessing.

Can't the A-side can be identified by having the lower catalogue number?

[kingofskiffle]

Yes but I think they may have asked him not to go beyond and he may have agreed. I need to re read the intro to the book

[kjell]

This puzzles me. Does the OCC have any legal right to stop others from doing charts in Britain? In accordance with Western law I believe they only could stop him from publishing their own.

[Robbie]

It would have been good to see his charts for 1953, to compare them to the NME chart.

[kingofskiffle]

I think that’s why he stopped the book! I am sure he would have this for a few years after (think it says so in the introduction to some extent - years since I’ve read that) but the OCC would have stopped him so as not to do something ‘better’ than there’s.

[Graham76man]

I find it hard to believe too that his lists stop within a few weeks of the first NME chart being done. He said he stopped them due to the new music (which he didn't like) coming out. But it would have only have been on the small scale in 1952 surely? I reckon he got wind of the NME chart coming out and stopped them then. It's a pity he didn't wait while the end of the year. Because the first NME charts were slow with the uptake of new hits. And his books had 10 to 15 new entries a month, before they stopped. It would have made a great comparison.

[MrTibbs]

The only problem with the Brown book is that he often lists the B side of a record, but it was the A side that was the hit and often a version of song in the sheet music chart. I hope that the radio station has worked that one out, otherwise they will be playing songs that even 80 to 90 year olds won't remember! Sometimes it's the most obvious ones that he lists to. For example the Brunswick label actually put A and B on the sides. Not all companies did that. Bing Crosby was on that label and thanks to a deceased uncle, I have a number of the 78's from him dating to the early forties. That's when I first noticed that he was putting in the B sides.

I totally agree there Graham. He defo got a lot of the sides mixed up. We also need to remember the book is good to some extent but it was a list of records ordered and not sold. A big difference in chart land.

[Graham76man]

The only problem with the Brown book is that he often lists the B side of a record, but it was the A side that was the hit and often a version of song in the sheet music chart. I hope that the radio station has worked that one out, otherwise they will be playing songs that even 80 to 90 year olds won't remember! Sometimes it's the most obvious ones that he lists to. For example the Brunswick label actually put A and B on the sides. Not all companies did that. Bing Crosby was on that label and thanks to a deceased uncle, I have a number of the 78's from him dating to the early forties. That's when I first noticed that he was putting in the B sides.

[MrTibbs]

Great find Splodj. I'm definitely gonna give that a spin

[Splodj]

Angel Radio has the NME Top 30 from 30-Nov-57 at 12.40 today. They go in anniversary rotation, so it was 23-Nov-56 last week and should be 7-Dec-58 next week

Then at 4.20 they have the Colin Brown Top 30 from 27-Mar-44. The first 8 1940s Top 30s starting with 8th July 1940 are at ...
https://www.angelradio.co.uk/listenagain
... but I don't know for how long.

[Graham76man]

I really hate YouTube. It's become a big corporate site, telling users what to do all the time and endless propaganda under the pretence of saying it's factual. I guess they used the reset to zero to make the propaganda videos look good. They probably had more dislikes than likes! Strange that they didn't tell any users, such as me they were going to reset the dislike to zero. I think they removed a lot of comments from videos too. I was looking at the David Essex one I did years ago and there were a lot less comments on it. Including a great one, from some woman telling another woman to get her mother to watch the David video as it would bring her out of the menopause!

On my blog I'm slowing phasing out any YouTube videos, because they just keep vanishing all the time. As long as you resize any video to under 100mb they can be upload direct to the site. And can't be removed.

[Robbie]

Your definitely in the minority there Robbie, 205,000 likes on YouTube and not one dislike!

YouTube reset the Dislike count for (all?) videos on their website a couple of weeks ago as an "experiment". Apparently some people can see them, some can't see them and some can only see the dislike count since the count was reset to 0. I'm seeing 117 Dislike's so I'm assuming I'm in the third category...

[Graham76man]

It's quite tame at the side of Jonathan King's version of Mississippi!

[MrTibbs]

Robbie - go find it on youtube and add a dislike!

I beat Robbie to it. I have added a 'dislike' . From the comments it's both loved and loathed, no in-between, I'm in the latter category.

[MrTibbs]

Your definitely in the minority there Robbie, 205,000 likes on YouTube and not one dislike!

Probably Patience and Prudence 'liked' it 205,000 times. Everyone else just ignored it because they already knew how awful it was

[kingofskiffle]

Your definitely in the minority there Robbie, 205,000 likes on YouTube and not one dislike!

Robbie - go find it on youtube and add a dislike!

[Graham76man]

I didn't know the Patience and Prudence song until now. What a dreadful song!

Your definitely in the minority there Robbie, 205,000 likes on YouTube and not one dislike!