The Ultimate Averaged Chart - The BBC Chart Re-Imagined

[membranemusic]

It's great to see the continued charts into the BMRB era. Indeed, I have already done them all to 1996, but without the dealer weighting! Interesting that I had an ambivalent point of view re BMRB back in 1969 which compelled me to carry on. If anyone really needs to know the straight average position in any week without dealer weighting, just ask! So, fascinating, and Mr Tibbs please carry on. At least it gets rid of the joint positions, of which there were three in 15-2-69!

[Splodj]

We've arrived at that point discussed earlier ...

On 13-April 'Get Back' was played in the new releases section of POTP. McCartney heard this and decided it needed to be remixed to sound better on radio. There is a recording online so you can hear what McCartney heard. (Although I suspect he was deliberately listening on AM and the recording is from FM.) The single was subsequently delayed, although I notice Wikipedia still says the release date was the 11th.

(Talking about release dates, I see the Peter Jackson 'Get Back' film is coming out on 21-Aug-21.)

[MrTibbs]

Again all three charts agree on the #1 record. There is broad agreement on records qualifying for the Top 30 with only three records differing overall.

[MrTibbs]

Greetings Pop Pickers !

Here is the Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending April 12th 1969.

The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending April 12th 1969							NME	MM	BMRB	Total
Last	This		The Sound Survey			Stores	200	250	85	Points
Week	Week		The Top 30 Singles Chart					TOP	30	Scored
1	1	I Heard It Through The Grapevine - Marvin Gaye					1	1	1	16050
2	2	Gentle On My Mind - Dean Martin					2	2	4	15345
7	3	Boom Bang-A-Bang - Lulu					3	4	2	14815
3	4	Sorry Suzanne - The Hollies					4	3	5	14610
9	5	In The Bad Bad Old Days - The Foundations					5	5	8	13655
14	6	Israelites - Desmond Dekker and The Aces					6	7	3	13380
6	7	Games People Play - Joe South					7	6	7	13090
8	8	Monsieur Dupont - Sandie Shaw					8	8	11	12050
11	9	Get Ready - The Temptations					11	9	13	11030
19	10	Windmills Of Your Mind - Noel Harrison					10	12	15	10310
4	11	Where Do You Go To My Lovely - Peter Sarstedt					13	10	14	10295
5	12	Surround Yourself With Sorrow - Cilla Black					15	11	12	9815
10	13	First Of May - The Bee Gees					9	15	17	9590
16	14	I Can Hear Music - The Beach Boys					14	14	10	9435
15	15	Good Times (Better Times) - Cliff Richard					12	13	18	9405
28	16	Goodbye - Mary Hopkin					17	16	6	8675
23	17	Pinball Wizard - The Who					16	17	9	8370
18	18	If I Can Dream - Elvis Presley					20	18	19	6470
22	19	Harlem Shuffle - Bob and Earl					18	21	19	6120
24	20	Hello World - The Tremeloes					22	22	16	5325
12	21	The Way It Used To Be - Engelbert Humperdinck					21	23	21	4850
13	22	Wichita Lineman - Glen Campbell					24	19	26	4825
17	23	You've Lost That Lovin' Feelin' - The Righteous Brothers					25	20	23	4630
25	24	I Don't Know Why - Stevie Wonder					23	24	22	4115
26	25	Passing Strangers - Sarah Vaughan and Billy Eckstine					19	27	30	3485
21	26	One Road - The Love Affair					28	25	25	2610
29	27	Cupid - Johnny Nash					26	26		2250
20	28	Please Don't Go - Donald Peers						28	24	1345
NEW	29	(I'm A) Road Runner - Junior Walker and The All Stars					27	29		1300
27	30	Don Juan - Dave Dee, Dozy, Beaky, Mick and Tich					29	30	29	820
B		Come Back And Shake Me - Clodagh Rodgers							27	340
X		Sanctus - Les Troubadours Du Roi Baudouin							28	255
X		Crosstown Traffic - The Jimi Hendrix Experience					30			200
30		I'm Gonna Make You Love Me - Diana Ross and The Supremes and The Temptations

[Splodj]

I think in the USA context 'sales only' simply means 'did not include airplay' - as Billboard did.

[RokinRobinOfLocksley]

I want to add that they may very well have tried to do all those things - tested, checked, corrections made, and authenticated pre launch. However, it could very well have bene such a different beast then they thought once it all started.

I think I am right that this is the first sales only chart in the world? I know Billboard collected sales data since 1958 (I think I am right here) but did they use it as true sales or points? I don't want to digress into talk about Billboard, but the first I the world would be expected to have issues regardless.

Interesting question. The Cash Box singles chart from 1944 to sometime in the 70s was based on sales only. In the 1940's and the early 1950's, up until sometime in 1955, they showed the "sales per 1000 singles sold" right there on the chart, for the current and previous weeks. How they got these numbers, I don't know. Cash Box Archive article here:

https://www.cashboxmagazine.com/archives.htm

This would be a good question for Paul Haney on the "Top 40 Music On CD" website...

[Splodj]

"No plan survives contact with the NME!"

[kingofskiffle]

I want to add that they may very well have tried to do all those things - tested, checked, corrections made, and authenticated pre launch. However, it could very well have bene such a different beast then they thought once it all started.

I think I am right that this is the first sales only chart in the world? I know Billboard collected sales data since 1958 (I think I am right here) but did they use it as true sales or points? I don't want to digress into talk about Billboard, but the first I the world would be expected to have issues regardless.

[MrTibbs]

Personally I can remember welcoming the new BMRB chart with open arms, being young and naïve at the time I thought it was accurate down to every copy sold as it was presented at the time to be the all singing all dancing chart to remedy all that went before.

No doubt about it, as it was a sales chart it presented a major step forward in the way we counted and recorded record sales to produce a chart. But in retrospect it was flawed in many respects for the initial years. I don't think the trial run for its inception was robust or thorough enough later proved by the problems in getting diaries returned in sufficient quantities to compile an authentic chart with no ties, and in having to discard so many poorly completed diaries. This also refers back to the quality of the trial period as obviously a huge number of the chart return shops were ill prepared or trained in diary completion or the sense of urgency in returning these timeously.

As a result sadly the initial years delivered a chart full of inconsistencies, initial ties, dubious patterns of movement week on week therefore reducing its credibility as a robust chart.

Perhaps a longer period of trial was necessary to bed in the new chart with to ensure it worked competently with a much higher proportion of useable diary return before being unleashed as the 'Official Chart', because its credibility was questionable thus diminishing its status sadly.
In the light of this we really can't discount the points based system of MM or NME in this early period. They were still publishing a tried and true method of compilation from a much larger sample of stores and therefore their authenticity in these early years of the BMRB chart can't be discounted or underestimated. Their charts in these early years were still accepted in preference to the BMRB chart in many quarters.

That's the tragedy here. The BMRB chart if properly tested, checked, corrections made, and authenticated pre launch should from the moment of introduction have been what it was intended to be, the 'Official Chart' without question. It failed us.

[Splodj]

I think the BBC would have been delighted with the new chart. Not just ahead of the game with The Israelites, but Lulu and others. I doubt they were concerned so much with the tie (their old chart had been riddled with them) as the indication that the sampling was lower than they had been promised. But they may have thought, as I do, that a sales chart with 85 stores is better than a points chart with many more.

I don't think RR (or the BBC) could have unilaterally imposed a change of policy on BMRB as suggested.

[MrTibbs]

^
It's the first time I've been able to compare chart movement across the three charts for the early BMRB period so a big thanks to MrTibbs for the layout presentation of the UAC. It means I've been able to spot things like the chart progress of 'Israelites'.

I think the earlier assessment of sales versus points accurately accounts for the good example Israelites provides Robbie. When all charts used points 30 points for example meant 30 points across all the charts equally irregardless of store size, but sales does alter this a bit. As mentioned in an earlier post larger stores selling big numbers of a record will obviously differ from the amount a small independent will sell of the same record so whereas 30 points from HMV would also be 30 points from Joe's Records, now, it could be 250 from HMV but still 30 (as in points) from Joe's.

What I am trying to highlight here is BMRB positions as a sales chart, but in comparison how MM and NME still view current sales reflected on their points system. So you can take your pick, you go with the BMRB sales chart as the barometer of public opinion at this time with a still minimal return of diaries or you stick with the tried and true points based system from MM and NME with their far larger store sample.
That is the dilemma lol.

That is why this UAC is for 'fun' , although it is interesting too, with the main purpose of the posts for now being to continue to show all the main charts as comparisons week on week and a sales chart versus points charts

I just love all these charts

[Robbie]

It's possible that RR asked BMRB to instigate a tie breaker as too many tied places on a chart makes the chart look untidy, or at least it does to me.

[MrTibbs]

I think the number of diaries on time being low also contributed to this. We start to loose ties in a few months and after July or August (I need to check) we loose them completely bar for a few random cases.

I noticed on the RR chart page for an October issue in 1969 a comment that stated 'tied positions are listed in alphabetical order'. Perhaps this is how they were now splitting them to account for the huge reduction in ties the chart was initially producing then tailed off from the second half of the year.

[Robbie]

^
It's the first time I've been able to compare chart movement across the three charts for the early BMRB period so a big thanks to MrTibbs for the layout presentation of the UAC. It means I've been able to spot things like the chart progress of 'Israelites'.

[Robbie]

'Israelites' really is flying up the BMRB chart.

The way that BMRB seem to be ahead of the curve suggests that BMRB may be catching (or capturing) Saturday sales in a better way. Am I right in thinking that by now both the NME and MM charts are compiled from postal returns and not telephone calls? If so perhaps the retailers that provided sales information for those two charts were quick to get returns in and were missing out on Saturday trends. 'Israelites' was featured on Top Of The Pops on Thursday 27 March 1969 while the single was at number 21. The following week the single jumped to number 5, perhaps partly as a result of the TOTP effect on sales. On NME the single moved 22-14 while on MM it moved 28-18. The three charts weren't far out the week in which the single was aired on Top Of The Pops but the following week saw the single gain a massive sales boost on the BMRB charts which wasn't fully reflected on the NME and MM charts. Maybe the NME and MM charts have an earlier end of sales week cut off by this point?

[MrTibbs]

All three charts again agree on #1, and indeed on all top three positions. Stevie Wonder's I Don't Know Why is one of the rare Stevie Wonder records I didn't like at all. I much preferred the later flipped My Cherie Amour.

Mary Hopkin enters with Goodbye and yet again in the weeks to come she will compete with label mates The Beatles for #1. It's interesting that Apple opted for both to go head to head again or just bad release planning.

[MrTibbs]

Greetings Pop Pickers !

Here is the Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending April 5th 1969.

The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending April 5th 1969							NME	MM	BMRB	Total
Last	This		The Sound Survey			Stores	200	250	85	Points
Week	Week		The Top 30 Singles Chart					TOP	30	Scored
1	1	I Heard It Through The Grapevine - Marvin Gaye					1	1	1	16050
4	2	Gentle On My Mind - Dean Martin					2	2	2	15515
5	3	Sorry Suzanne - The Hollies					3	3	3	14980
2	4	Where Do You Go To My Lovely - Peter Sarstedt					5	4	7	13990
3	5	Surround Yourself With Sorrow - Cilla Black					5	6	11	13150
10	6	Games People Play - Joe South					7	7	8	12755
17	7	Boom Bang-A-Bang - Lulu					8	8	4	12645
9	8	Monsieur Dupont - Sandie Shaw					11	5	6	12625
15	9	In The Bad Bad Old Days - The Foundations					4	10	9	12520
7	10	First Of May - The Bee Gees					9	9	10	11685
14	11	Get Ready - The Temptations					10	11	13	10730
6	12	The Way It Used To Be - Engelbert Humperdick					12	13	16	9575
8	13	Wichita Lineman - Glen Campbell					13	12	18	9455
23	14	Israelites - Desmond Dekker and The Aces					14	18	5	8860
12	15	Good Times (Better Times) - Cliff Richard					17	16	12	8165
18	16	I Can Hear Music - The Beach Boys					15	17	18	7805
11	17	You've Lost That Lovin' Feelin' - The Righteous Brothers					18	14	20	7785
13	18	If I Can Dream - Elvis Presley					19	15	15	7760
20	19	Windmills Of Your Mind - Noel Harrison					20	20	14	6395
16	20	Please Don't Go - Donald Peers					16	22	23	5930
19	21	One Road - The Love Affair					21	19	24	5595
26	22	Harlem Shuffle - Bob and Earl					24	21	21	4750
30	23	Pinball Wizard - The Who					22	24	17	4740
28	24	Hello World - The Tremeloes					23	23	22	4365
NEW	25	I Don't Know Why - Stevie Wonder					25	27	26	2625
24	26	Passing Strangers - Sarah Vaughan and Billy Eckstine					28	25	27	2440
25	27	Don Juan - Dave Dee, Dozy, Beaky, Mick and Tich					30	26	28	1705
NEW	28	Goodbye - Mary Hopkin					26		25	1510
NEW	29	Cupid - Johnny Nash					29	29	28	1155
21	30	I'm Gonna Make You Love Me - Diana Ross and The Supremes and The Temptations						28	30	835
X		Sanctus - Les Troubadours Du Roi Badouin					27			800
27		I'll Pick A Rose For My Rose - Marv Johnson						30		250
29		Maria Elena - Gene Pitney							30	85
22		(If Paradise Is) Half As Nice - Amen Corner
		Dancing In The Street - Martha Reeves and The Foundations

[Robbie]

MM really does seem behind the trend when compared to both NME and BMRB.

'Israelites' in at number 23 - reggae finally has a breakthrough hit.

[MrTibbs]

Motown gets its third #1 this week, they have had to wait nearly three years for it, after The Supremes in 1964 and The Four Tops in 1966.

However MM still goes with Peter Sarstedt for another week at the top.

[MrTibbs]

Greetings Pop Pickers !

Here is the Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending March 29th 1969.

The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending March 29th 1969							NME	MM	BMRB	Total
Last	This		The Sound Survey			Stores	200	250	85	Points
Week	Week		The Top 30 Singles Chart					TOP	30	Scored
2	1	I Heard It Through The Grapevine - Marvin Gaye					1	2	1	15800
1	2	Where Do You Go To My Lovely - Peter Sarstedt					2	1	2	15765
3	3	Surround Yourself With Sorrow - Cilla Black					4	3	3	14780
6	4	Gentle On My Mind - Dean Martin					3	4	5	14560
9	5	Sorry Suzanne - The Hollies					6	7	4	13295
4	6	The Way It Used To Be - Engelbert Humperdinck					5	5	13	13230
8	7	First Of May - The Bee Gees					7	8	7	12590
5	8	Wichita Lineman - Glen Campbell					8	6	14	12295
7	9	Monsieur Dupont - Sandie Shaw					9	9	8	11855
16	10	Games People Play - Joe South					10	12	6	11075
12	11	You've Lost That Lovin' Feelin' - The Righteous Brothers					11	10	17	10440
15	12	Good Times (Better Times) - Cliff Richard					15	11	12	9815
14	13	If I Can Dream - Elvis Presley					13	14	11	9550
19	14	Get Ready - The Temptations					14	15	10	9185
21	15	In The Bad Bad Old Days - The Foundations					12	16	15	8910
11	16	Please Don't Go - Donald Peers					16	13	20	8435
24	17	Boom Bang-A-Bang - Lulu					17	19	9	7670
22	18	I Can Hear Music - The Beach Boys					20	17	18	6805
20	19	One Road - The Love Affair					18	20	19	6370
18	20	Windmills Of Your Mind - Noel Harrison					19	22	16	5925
10	21	I'm Gonna Make You Love Me - Diana Ross and The Supremes and The Temptations					21	18		5250
13	22	(If Paradise Is) Half As Nice - Amen Corner					24	21	28	4155
NEW	23	Israelites - Desmond Dekker and The Aces					22	28	21	3400
27	24	Passing Strangers - Sarah Vaughan and Billy Eckstine					25	25	24	3295
26	25	Don Juan - Dave Dee, Dozy, Beaky, Mick and Tich					27	23	26	3225
NEW	26	Harlem Shuffle - Bob and Earl					26	26	23	2930
17	27	I'll Pick A Rose For My Rose - Marv Johnson					28	24	27	2690
NEW	28	Hello World - The Tremeloes						27	22	1765
NEW	29	Maria Elena - Gene Pitney					23		30	1685
28	30	Pinball Wizard - The Who							25	510
25		Dancing In The Street - Martha Reeves and The Vandellas						29		500
		I Spy (For The FBI) - Jamo Thomas					29			400
B		I Don't Know Why - Stevie Wonder					30		29	370
24		Soul Sister Brown Sugar - Sam and Dave						30		250
30		Blackberry Way - The Move								0
29		It's Too Late Now - Long John Baldry								0

[MrTibbs]

Breakfast On Pluto by Don Partridge should be Joint 28 in RR with Ob La Di Ob La Da by The Marmalade on UAC 22nd March 1969

I had used my original copy of The Guinness Book of Top 40 Singles and it had listed them at 28 and 29 Woz. However I note the later edition and my Graham Betts book have these at joint 28 as you say. As it would appear to be an error in the original book copy I have amended.

Thanks. It keeps everything accurate.
Brian

[Woz1234]

Breakfast On Pluto by Don Partridge should be Joint 28 in RR with Ob La Di Ob La Da by The Marmalade on UAC 22nd March 1969

[Splodj]

Just noticed the store figures are strange on the March 8th chart. Not a big deal, but thought I'd mention it.

[kingofskiffle]

A sales chart can have ties if they sell exactly the same amount. However the statistics here should have prevented that. BMRB where used to taking surveys for other things including general elections but in those cases you only get a limited number of choices. In a general election - even with twenty parties standing- there or four come out near the top and the rest come out lower down. Ties in the lower ranked parties are inevitable and expected. So they probably used the same sort of logic here. It does mean that the model should have prevented ties this high up the chart so they needed to review the model.




I think the number of diaries on time being low also contributed to this. We start to loose ties in a few months and after July or August (I need to check) we loose them completely bar for a few random cases.

[MrTibbs]

Donald Peers had dropped to 9 then gone back up to 4 earlier with MM. Perhaps there were supply issues. The tie at 4 is weird though.

That was back at the end of February and first week of March though Splodj. On reflection I am inclined to think it was more likely due to the way BMRB used their sample from their panel shops, differing the sample week on week using a different sample of shops. This would explain the Donald Peers pattern and also the fact throughout 1969 and well into 1970 you can see this yo yo effect on the BMRB chart where records climb, fall back considerably, then climb big again the following week.