The Ultimate Averaged Chart - The BBC Chart Re-Imagined

[MrTibbs]

Radio audience figures out today, and Global is boasting about the highest chart show audience of 1.5m for the Official Big Top 40. But this shows how over the long term chart show audiences have declined dramatically.

A sign of the times. In its heyday lots of music fans tuned in to the chart show to hear their current favourite songs but now with instant downloads and streaming they can get their favourites instantly on demand. Also it's maybe an age thing with me but most of the chart music now is just dull and monotonous. One sounds much like another. I think I've turned into my father

[Splodj]

Radio audience figures out today, and Global is boasting about the highest chart show audience of 1.5m for the Official Big Top 40. But this shows how over the long term chart show audiences have declined dramatically.

[MrTibbs]

Does that include the Frank Ifield version from February 1963 (that prevented The Beatles Please Please Me from reaching no. 1)?

Is the Tony Martin record the same one that Gerry & the Pacemakers covered in November 1965, reaching no. 29?

Frank Ifield actually did a decent version Brian but I still think Gogi Grant's as the best version overall. Hers was the chart topping version in the US.
Gerry's version was a very weak cover I always thought and a poor choice of release as it was very dated by then.

[Splodj]

that prevented The Beatles Please Please Me from reaching no. 1

A courageous comment, in the light of pages 94 to 96 in this thread!!

Yes, Tony Martin's song is the same as Gerry & Pacemakers.

[kingofskiffle]

I know Lonnie Donegan only got paid a session fee for Rock Island Line. He later said he did not mind as ‘I got a career out of that record’.

[brian05]

The Wayward Wind would have been a bigger record but with Gogi Grant and Tex Ritter both running almost neck and neck they cancelled each other out, but for me Gogi Grant's is THE version.


Tony Martin leaps into the top ten.

Does that include the Frank Ifield version from February 1963 (that prevented The Beatles Please Please Me from reaching no. 1)?

Is the Tony Martin record the same one that Gerry & the Pacemakers covered in November 1965, reaching no. 29?

[Graham76man]

I think I read somewhere that Frankie and The Teenagers got nothing from the sales of that record. Another case of how brutal the Record Industry is and how profits is all they care about. Certainly not truth or accuracy.

[MrTibbs]

Alan 'Fluff' Freeman, best DJ ever in my opinion ranked Humphrey Lyttelton's Bad Penny Blues as one of his favourite records of all time along with Martha Reeves and The Vandellas' Dancing In The Street. For me of course The Vandellas was the better of the two lol.

All together now 'Calling out around the world are you ready for a brand new beat' Oh Yeah !!

[Splodj]

Humphrey Lyttelton scores his only chart entry.

Also significant for being the first UK jazz record to chart, and the first record Joe Meek worked on. He brought to the fore and compressed the piano sound, which was similar to the piano on Lady Madonna - the lyrics of which have been compared witn 'Blue Monday' also released in 56.

[MrTibbs]

An interesting week !

After Rock Around The Clock Frankie Lymon etc gives us the second rock'n'roll #1.

Again, as with Blue Suede Shoes The Wayward Wind would have been a bigger record but with Gogi Grant and Tex Ritter both running almost neck and neck they cancelled each other out, but for me Gogi Grant's is THE version.

After a slow start Doris Day is now gaining momentum, perhaps the wider distribution of the movie it is from is helping the upward surge in the chart as it will eventually elbow The Teenagers aside.

Tony Martin leaps into the top ten. It was two decades later before I actually heard this record when it was played on a certain now 'named and shamed' DJ's Sunday 'Old Record Club' and I actually liked it a lot and sought it out.

Yeah as Gambo said above 'Let's get back to the relative simplicity of the 1950s...', unless you are compiling them

[MrTibbs]

Greetings Pop Pickers

Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending July 21st 1956

Here are all '' the uppers, the downers, the just hanging 'arounders '

The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending July 21st 1956							NME	MM	RM	Total
Last	This		The Sound Survey			Stores	65	20	60	Points
Week	Week		The Top 29 Singles Chart					TOP	30	Scored
4	1	Why Do Fools Fall In Love - The Teenagers					1	1	1	4350
1	2	I'll Be Home - Pat Boone					2	2	3	4145
2	3	All Star Hit Parade - Various Artists					3	3	2	4120
3	4	Bluebottle Blues / I'm Walking Backwards For Christmas - The Goons					5		4	3840
5	5	Heartbreak Hotel - Elvis Presley					4	4	6	3795
6	6	Experiments With Mice - Johnny Dankworth					7	8	5	3580
7	7	Hot Diggity - Perry Como					6	6	9	3445
9	8	The Wayward Wind - Gogi Grant					9	9	8	3250
23	9	Walk Hand In Hand - Tony Martin					7	5	12	3220
8	10	Lost John - Lonnie Donegan					10	19	7	3045
11	11	The Wayward Wind - Tex Ritter					12	7	9	3035
13	12	Who Are We - Ronnie Hilton					10	12	15	2705
21	13	Whatever Will Be Will Be - Doris Day					12	16	14	2555
10	14	The Saints Rock'n'Roll - Bill Haley and His Comets					17	16	11	2410
14	15	Moonglow And Theme From Picnic - Morris Stoloff					14	13	16	2365
18	16	A Tear Fell - Teresa Brewer					18	13	18	1985
17	17	Bad Penny Blues - Humphrey Lyttelton					19		17	1620
22	18	A Sweet Old Fashioned Girl - Teresa Brewer					21		19	1370
12	19	My September Love - David Whitfield					16	16		1275
25	20	Hot Diggity - Michael Holliday					29	15	20	1110
NEW	21	Left Bank - Winifred Atwell					20			715
20	22	Portuguese Washerwoman - Joe 'Fingers' Carr					24	19		695
19	23	Too Young To Go Steady - Nat King Cole					21			650
15	24	No Other Love - Ronnie Hilton					23			520
NEW	25	I Want You I Need You I Love You - Elvis Presley					25			390
24	26	The Faithful Hussar - Ted Heath					26			325
29	27	The Faithful Hussar - Louis Armstrong					27			260
30	28	The Birds And The Bees - Alma Cogan					28			195
NEW	29	Be-Bop-A-Lula - Gene Vincent					30			65
		I'm Walking Backwards For Christmas - The Goons (B)						10
		Bluebottle Blues - The Goons (A)						11
		Songs For Swingin' Lovers (LP) - Frank Sinatra					15		13	2120
16		Blue Suede Shoes - Elvis Presley
26		Kiss Me Another - Georgia Gibbs
27		Skiffle Session (EP) - Lonnie Donegan
28		Serenade - Slim Whitman

[RokinRobinOfLocksley]

A Wiki article says the Official Big Top 40 is based on (a) iTunes downloads, (b) Apple Music streaming, and (c) radio airplay from the stations that broadcast the show.

[kingofskiffle]

Big 40 is iTunes sales only (I think) and does not (I think) include streams. It is compiled by iTunes as when I get sent it for CP work it’s got iTunes codes instead of ISRC and they are always iTunes versions.

[Gambo]

Steady on Graham; sounds harsh on a nice bit of liver and onions to me!

I wondered about how they get away with saying "official big top 40", but assumed it either wasn't in breach of (C) law or an external agreement had been reached between OCC and whoever now compiles the Big Top 40 (assuming it's not themselves anymore!) to allow use of the term, however conflicting it sounds to uninitiated listeners. I am guessing OCC would be pretty litigious, given the way they've acted in the past over some posters on the web daring to use their chart data without permission, so the safer bet had to be that they couldn't realistically litigate against use of the term "official" by chart competitors, as Lonnie says above. Perhaps it's because they use the word "big" in between that and "top 40" that is enough to distinguish and protect it from challenge via the courts, although that feels a tad tenuous to me, especially in the light of the tale above about someone being forced by law to remove their own name from YouTube posts! They do seem very careful never to describe the ILR chart as "the official chart", but do escape with "officially the UK's biggest song" or what have you, which surely is a step too far (at least when it differs from the No 1 on the OCC chart)? I suppose the terms "big" and "biggest" are suitably nebulous and could mean a range of different measures, although when one looks at the current wording for the OCC's Top 100 singles chart it also uses the expression "biggest songs" as "best-selling" no longer covers it, so it's a convenient shorthand for saying "most sold and streamed in combination on a ratio of 100 streams to 1 sale or 600 to 1 if it's non-subscription, and double those for songs in decline against the average market after nine weeks charted (oh, and the song is one of an artist's top three most-consumed tracks that week)"!!!

Anyway; off-topic now chaps sorry. Let's get back to the relative simplicity of the 1950s...

[Graham76man]

I always call them the "Offal" Chart Company, because that's what they serve up!

In some cases you can be blocked from using your own real name! There was a Astrology on YouTube, who was using her real name, but there was a well known singer who had the same name. The singer took her to court and stopped her using her own name! Presumably the singer objected because of the astrology thing.

[kingofskiffle]

Actually, you can not stop people from using the word official in their title. for example, I am the Official KingOfSkiffle poster. That is something that I can say and I could (c) that. What they can not do is call their chart the Official Chart or variations thereof. They are being naughty, but under (c) law they are fine.

[Splodj]

They can't have a very good copyright protection for the name if the main competitor is called 'The Official Big Top 40'.

[RokinRobinOfLocksley]

'official' means "official according to the 'official' charts co". It does not mean "according to actual UK chart history", or something called "truth". For the truth-mongers amongst us, 'official' began in Feb 1969. Or, there is "subjective" truth, and there is "objective" truth. But I digress, ha...

What I wanna know is: who is the 'official' fish n chips company of the UK, and can they prove it? I'm getting hungry...

[Splodj]

I must have misunderstood the definition of 'official'.

It was a bit unsporting of Music Echo not to have at least a Top 50 for their EPs!

I expect the Pop Weekly EP chart was the previous week's RR chart tweaked just enough to avoid legal action, if their composite singles chart is anything to go by.

[kingofskiffle]

They are official. They have been in the Hits Of The 60's Guiness book in 1980odd and also in the Virgin Book of Singles 2 (2009) and the 1960's Graham Betts book. So they are indeed official. And they have been in the Complete Book Of British Charts as well. Don;t trust the OCC website.....

[Splodj]

Which brings up an interesting question. The 'official' charts declared official charts prior to RR for singles and LPs, but they didn't do so for EPs. Why not? Why not declare the MM EP charts prior to RR as 'official' as well?

Hang on, as far as I know the RR EP charts themselves have never been declared 'official'. They are not on the OCC website. As I've said before, this means that they've excluded the 5th biggest selling record of 1963 (Beatles 'Twist and Shout' EP).

[RokinRobinOfLocksley]

Very interesting Brian.

It'd also be interesting to compare a midpoint NME chart of (Dec 22 and Jan 5) against the actual NME chart of Dec 29. And compare both of those against the MM and RM midpoint charts for Dec 29.

I recall someone saying that they read where the diary returns of a skipped no-chart week were sometimes included in the following week chart, so this following week chart could sometimes include mixed data over 2 weeks. Thus it might also be interesting to see which NME chart the Jan 5 MM and RM charts are closer to, the NME Jan 5 chart, or a combined NME (Dec 29 + Jan 5) chart.

Math is fun !!

[MrTibbs]

I have just been trying out something different for the Ultimate Averaged Chart as an experiment. I believe Robin actually suggested it at some point and I thought I would give it a go to see how it worked out and surprisingly the outcome was positive I believe.

This related to the last chart for 1956, the 29th December when only NME compiled a chart. So, to provide an Ultimate Averaged Chart for that week I used the chart positions for MM and RM to find a midway point between their chart positions of 22nd December and 5th January 1957. These were then factored in to the Ultimate Averaged Chart. You will see the end result in due course and I will be interested to hear your views on this when you see the result.

[Robbie]

Humphrey Lyttelton scores his only chart entry. Lyttleton would join BBC Radio 2 from when it started broadcating in 1967, hosting the weekly jazz programme. He presented "The Best Of Jazz" until 2007. He was also host of the BBC Radio 4 comedy panel show "I'm Sorry I Haven't A Clue" from 1972 until shortly before his death in April 2008. Lyttleton was the second future BBC Radio 2 host to chart in 1956. Jimmy Young, a chart regular in this period, would also become a future Radio 2 host after a spell on both the Light Programme and a 6 year run on Radio 1 from when the station first came on air until 1973.

[RokinRobinOfLocksley]

History is history, KoS, you know you want the early MM EP charts included as 'official', ha.

I found the thread for the below EP info, titled "Record Retailer/Record Mirror #1 EP's List":

https://www.ukmix.org/forum/chart-di...or-1-ep-s-list

This has:
--the RR/RM #1 EPs 1960-67 (thanks Mario)
--the MM Top 10 EP charts 1959-63 (thanks Alan Smith)
--the Pop Weekly Top 5 EP charts Sep-Nov 1965 (Alan)
--and the Music Echo Top 20 to Top 10 EP charts, Nov 1965 - April 1966 (Alan)

History is history !!