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The Ultimate Averaged Chart - The BBC Chart Re-Imagined

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  • MrTibbs
    replied
    Originally posted by Splodj View Post
    Radio audience figures out today, and Global is boasting about the highest chart show audience of 1.5m for the Official Big Top 40. But this shows how over the long term chart show audiences have declined dramatically.
    A sign of the times. In its heyday lots of music fans tuned in to the chart show to hear their current favourite songs but now with instant downloads and streaming they can get their favourites instantly on demand. Also it's maybe an age thing with me but most of the chart music now is just dull and monotonous. One sounds much like another. I think I've turned into my father

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  • Splodj
    replied
    Radio audience figures out today, and Global is boasting about the highest chart show audience of 1.5m for the Official Big Top 40. But this shows how over the long term chart show audiences have declined dramatically.

    Leave a comment:


  • MrTibbs
    replied
    Originally posted by brian05 View Post

    Does that include the Frank Ifield version from February 1963 (that prevented The Beatles Please Please Me from reaching no. 1)?

    Is the Tony Martin record the same one that Gerry & the Pacemakers covered in November 1965, reaching no. 29?
    Frank Ifield actually did a decent version Brian but I still think Gogi Grant's as the best version overall. Hers was the chart topping version in the US.
    Gerry's version was a very weak cover I always thought and a poor choice of release as it was very dated by then.

    Leave a comment:


  • Splodj
    replied
    Originally posted by brian05 View Post
    that prevented The Beatles Please Please Me from reaching no. 1
    A courageous comment, in the light of pages 94 to 96 in this thread!!

    Yes, Tony Martin's song is the same as Gerry & Pacemakers.

    Leave a comment:


  • kingofskiffle
    replied
    I know Lonnie Donegan only got paid a session fee for Rock Island Line. He later said he did not mind as ‘I got a career out of that record’.

    Leave a comment:


  • brian05
    replied
    Originally posted by MrTibbs View Post
    The Wayward Wind would have been a bigger record but with Gogi Grant and Tex Ritter both running almost neck and neck they cancelled each other out, but for me Gogi Grant's is THE version.


    Tony Martin leaps into the top ten.
    Does that include the Frank Ifield version from February 1963 (that prevented The Beatles Please Please Me from reaching no. 1)?

    Is the Tony Martin record the same one that Gerry & the Pacemakers covered in November 1965, reaching no. 29?

    Leave a comment:


  • Graham76man
    replied
    I think I read somewhere that Frankie and The Teenagers got nothing from the sales of that record. Another case of how brutal the Record Industry is and how profits is all they care about. Certainly not truth or accuracy.

    Leave a comment:


  • MrTibbs
    replied
    Alan 'Fluff' Freeman, best DJ ever in my opinion ranked Humphrey Lyttelton's Bad Penny Blues as one of his favourite records of all time along with Martha Reeves and The Vandellas' Dancing In The Street. For me of course The Vandellas was the better of the two lol.

    All together now 'Calling out around the world are you ready for a brand new beat' Oh Yeah !!

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  • Splodj
    replied
    Originally posted by Robbie View Post
    Humphrey Lyttelton scores his only chart entry.
    Also significant for being the first UK jazz record to chart, and the first record Joe Meek worked on. He brought to the fore and compressed the piano sound, which was similar to the piano on Lady Madonna - the lyrics of which have been compared witn 'Blue Monday' also released in 56.

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  • MrTibbs
    replied
    An interesting week !

    After Rock Around The Clock Frankie Lymon etc gives us the second rock'n'roll #1.

    Again, as with Blue Suede Shoes The Wayward Wind would have been a bigger record but with Gogi Grant and Tex Ritter both running almost neck and neck they cancelled each other out, but for me Gogi Grant's is THE version.

    After a slow start Doris Day is now gaining momentum, perhaps the wider distribution of the movie it is from is helping the upward surge in the chart as it will eventually elbow The Teenagers aside.

    Tony Martin leaps into the top ten. It was two decades later before I actually heard this record when it was played on a certain now 'named and shamed' DJ's Sunday 'Old Record Club' and I actually liked it a lot and sought it out.

    Yeah as Gambo said above 'Let's get back to the relative simplicity of the 1950s...', unless you are compiling them

    Leave a comment:


  • MrTibbs
    replied
    Greetings Pop Pickers

    Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending July 21st 1956

    Here are all '' the uppers, the downers, the just hanging 'arounders '

    The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending July 21st 1956 NME MM RM Total
    Last This The Sound Survey Stores 65 20 60 Points
    Week Week The Top 29 Singles Chart TOP 30 Scored
    4 1 Why Do Fools Fall In Love - The Teenagers 1 1 1 4350
    1 2 I'll Be Home - Pat Boone 2 2 3 4145
    2 3 All Star Hit Parade - Various Artists 3 3 2 4120
    3 4 Bluebottle Blues / I'm Walking Backwards For Christmas - The Goons 5 4 3840
    5 5 Heartbreak Hotel - Elvis Presley 4 4 6 3795
    6 6 Experiments With Mice - Johnny Dankworth 7 8 5 3580
    7 7 Hot Diggity - Perry Como 6 6 9 3445
    9 8 The Wayward Wind - Gogi Grant 9 9 8 3250
    23 9 Walk Hand In Hand - Tony Martin 7 5 12 3220
    8 10 Lost John - Lonnie Donegan 10 19 7 3045
    11 11 The Wayward Wind - Tex Ritter 12 7 9 3035
    13 12 Who Are We - Ronnie Hilton 10 12 15 2705
    21 13 Whatever Will Be Will Be - Doris Day 12 16 14 2555
    10 14 The Saints Rock'n'Roll - Bill Haley and His Comets 17 16 11 2410
    14 15 Moonglow And Theme From Picnic - Morris Stoloff 14 13 16 2365
    18 16 A Tear Fell - Teresa Brewer 18 13 18 1985
    17 17 Bad Penny Blues - Humphrey Lyttelton 19 17 1620
    22 18 A Sweet Old Fashioned Girl - Teresa Brewer 21 19 1370
    12 19 My September Love - David Whitfield 16 16 1275
    25 20 Hot Diggity - Michael Holliday 29 15 20 1110
    NEW 21 Left Bank - Winifred Atwell 20 715
    20 22 Portuguese Washerwoman - Joe 'Fingers' Carr 24 19 695
    19 23 Too Young To Go Steady - Nat King Cole 21 650
    15 24 No Other Love - Ronnie Hilton 23 520
    NEW 25 I Want You I Need You I Love You - Elvis Presley 25 390
    24 26 The Faithful Hussar - Ted Heath 26 325
    29 27 The Faithful Hussar - Louis Armstrong 27 260
    30 28 The Birds And The Bees - Alma Cogan 28 195
    NEW 29 Be-Bop-A-Lula - Gene Vincent 30 65
    I'm Walking Backwards For Christmas - The Goons (B) 10
    Bluebottle Blues - The Goons (A) 11
    Songs For Swingin' Lovers (LP) - Frank Sinatra 15 13 2120
    16 Blue Suede Shoes - Elvis Presley
    26 Kiss Me Another - Georgia Gibbs
    27 Skiffle Session (EP) - Lonnie Donegan
    28 Serenade - Slim Whitman

    Leave a comment:


  • RokinRobinOfLocksley
    replied
    A Wiki article says the Official Big Top 40 is based on (a) iTunes downloads, (b) Apple Music streaming, and (c) radio airplay from the stations that broadcast the show.

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  • kingofskiffle
    commented on 's reply
    Big 40 is iTunes sales only (I think) and does not (I think) include streams. It is compiled by iTunes as when I get sent it for CP work it’s got iTunes codes instead of ISRC and they are always iTunes versions.

  • Gambo
    replied
    Steady on Graham; sounds harsh on a nice bit of liver and onions to me!

    I wondered about how they get away with saying "official big top 40", but assumed it either wasn't in breach of (C) law or an external agreement had been reached between OCC and whoever now compiles the Big Top 40 (assuming it's not themselves anymore!) to allow use of the term, however conflicting it sounds to uninitiated listeners. I am guessing OCC would be pretty litigious, given the way they've acted in the past over some posters on the web daring to use their chart data without permission, so the safer bet had to be that they couldn't realistically litigate against use of the term "official" by chart competitors, as Lonnie says above. Perhaps it's because they use the word "big" in between that and "top 40" that is enough to distinguish and protect it from challenge via the courts, although that feels a tad tenuous to me, especially in the light of the tale above about someone being forced by law to remove their own name from YouTube posts! They do seem very careful never to describe the ILR chart as "the official chart", but do escape with "officially the UK's biggest song" or what have you, which surely is a step too far (at least when it differs from the No 1 on the OCC chart)? I suppose the terms "big" and "biggest" are suitably nebulous and could mean a range of different measures, although when one looks at the current wording for the OCC's Top 100 singles chart it also uses the expression "biggest songs" as "best-selling" no longer covers it, so it's a convenient shorthand for saying "most sold and streamed in combination on a ratio of 100 streams to 1 sale or 600 to 1 if it's non-subscription, and double those for songs in decline against the average market after nine weeks charted (oh, and the song is one of an artist's top three most-consumed tracks that week)"!!!

    Anyway; off-topic now chaps sorry. Let's get back to the relative simplicity of the 1950s...

    Leave a comment:


  • Graham76man
    replied
    I always call them the "Offal" Chart Company, because that's what they serve up!

    In some cases you can be blocked from using your own real name! There was a Astrology on YouTube, who was using her real name, but there was a well known singer who had the same name. The singer took her to court and stopped her using her own name! Presumably the singer objected because of the astrology thing.

    Leave a comment:


  • kingofskiffle
    replied
    Actually, you can not stop people from using the word official in their title. for example, I am the Official KingOfSkiffle poster. That is something that I can say and I could (c) that. What they can not do is call their chart the Official Chart or variations thereof. They are being naughty, but under (c) law they are fine.

    Leave a comment:


  • Splodj
    replied
    They can't have a very good copyright protection for the name if the main competitor is called 'The Official Big Top 40'.

    Leave a comment:


  • RokinRobinOfLocksley
    replied
    'official' means "official according to the 'official' charts co". It does not mean "according to actual UK chart history", or something called "truth". For the truth-mongers amongst us, 'official' began in Feb 1969. Or, there is "subjective" truth, and there is "objective" truth. But I digress, ha...

    What I wanna know is: who is the 'official' fish n chips company of the UK, and can they prove it? I'm getting hungry...

    Leave a comment:


  • Splodj
    replied
    I must have misunderstood the definition of 'official'.

    It was a bit unsporting of Music Echo not to have at least a Top 50 for their EPs!

    I expect the Pop Weekly EP chart was the previous week's RR chart tweaked just enough to avoid legal action, if their composite singles chart is anything to go by.

    Leave a comment:


  • kingofskiffle
    replied
    They are official. They have been in the Hits Of The 60's Guiness book in 1980odd and also in the Virgin Book of Singles 2 (2009) and the 1960's Graham Betts book. So they are indeed official. And they have been in the Complete Book Of British Charts as well. Don;t trust the OCC website.....

    Leave a comment:


  • Splodj
    replied
    Originally posted by RokinRobinOfLocksley View Post
    Which brings up an interesting question. The 'official' charts declared official charts prior to RR for singles and LPs, but they didn't do so for EPs. Why not? Why not declare the MM EP charts prior to RR as 'official' as well?
    Hang on, as far as I know the RR EP charts themselves have never been declared 'official'. They are not on the OCC website. As I've said before, this means that they've excluded the 5th biggest selling record of 1963 (Beatles 'Twist and Shout' EP).

    Leave a comment:


  • RokinRobinOfLocksley
    replied
    Very interesting Brian.

    It'd also be interesting to compare a midpoint NME chart of (Dec 22 and Jan 5) against the actual NME chart of Dec 29. And compare both of those against the MM and RM midpoint charts for Dec 29.

    I recall someone saying that they read where the diary returns of a skipped no-chart week were sometimes included in the following week chart, so this following week chart could sometimes include mixed data over 2 weeks. Thus it might also be interesting to see which NME chart the Jan 5 MM and RM charts are closer to, the NME Jan 5 chart, or a combined NME (Dec 29 + Jan 5) chart.

    Math is fun !!

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  • MrTibbs
    replied
    I have just been trying out something different for the Ultimate Averaged Chart as an experiment. I believe Robin actually suggested it at some point and I thought I would give it a go to see how it worked out and surprisingly the outcome was positive I believe.

    This related to the last chart for 1956, the 29th December when only NME compiled a chart. So, to provide an Ultimate Averaged Chart for that week I used the chart positions for MM and RM to find a midway point between their chart positions of 22nd December and 5th January 1957. These were then factored in to the Ultimate Averaged Chart. You will see the end result in due course and I will be interested to hear your views on this when you see the result.

    Leave a comment:


  • Robbie
    replied
    Humphrey Lyttelton scores his only chart entry. Lyttleton would join BBC Radio 2 from when it started broadcating in 1967, hosting the weekly jazz programme. He presented "The Best Of Jazz" until 2007. He was also host of the BBC Radio 4 comedy panel show "I'm Sorry I Haven't A Clue" from 1972 until shortly before his death in April 2008. Lyttleton was the second future BBC Radio 2 host to chart in 1956. Jimmy Young, a chart regular in this period, would also become a future Radio 2 host after a spell on both the Light Programme and a 6 year run on Radio 1 from when the station first came on air until 1973.

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  • RokinRobinOfLocksley
    replied
    History is history, KoS, you know you want the early MM EP charts included as 'official', ha.

    I found the thread for the below EP info, titled "Record Retailer/Record Mirror #1 EP's List":

    https://www.ukmix.org/forum/chart-di...or-1-ep-s-list

    This has:
    --the RR/RM #1 EPs 1960-67 (thanks Mario)
    --the MM Top 10 EP charts 1959-63 (thanks Alan Smith)
    --the Pop Weekly Top 5 EP charts Sep-Nov 1965 (Alan)
    --and the Music Echo Top 20 to Top 10 EP charts, Nov 1965 - April 1966 (Alan)

    History is history !!

    Leave a comment:

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