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The Ultimate Averaged Chart - The BBC Chart Re-Imagined

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  • MrTibbs
    replied
    I have just been trying out something different for the Ultimate Averaged Chart as an experiment. I believe Robin actually suggested it at some point and I thought I would give it a go to see how it worked out and surprisingly the outcome was positive I believe.

    This related to the last chart for 1956, the 29th December when only NME compiled a chart. So, to provide an Ultimate Averaged Chart for that week I used the chart positions for MM and RM to find a midway point between their chart positions of 22nd December and 5th January 1957. These were then factored in to the Ultimate Averaged Chart. You will see the end result in due course and I will be interested to hear your views on this when you see the result.

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  • Robbie
    replied
    Humphrey Lyttelton scores his only chart entry. Lyttleton would join BBC Radio 2 from when it started broadcating in 1967, hosting the weekly jazz programme. He presented "The Best Of Jazz" until 2007. He was also host of the BBC Radio 4 comedy panel show "I'm Sorry I Haven't A Clue" from 1972 until shortly before his death in April 2008. Lyttleton was the second future BBC Radio 2 host to chart in 1956. Jimmy Young, a chart regular in this period, would also become a future Radio 2 host after a spell on both the Light Programme and a 6 year run on Radio 1 from when the station first came on air until 1973.

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  • RokinRobinOfLocksley
    replied
    History is history, KoS, you know you want the early MM EP charts included as 'official', ha.

    I found the thread for the below EP info, titled "Record Retailer/Record Mirror #1 EP's List":

    https://www.ukmix.org/forum/chart-di...or-1-ep-s-list

    This has:
    --the RR/RM #1 EPs 1960-67 (thanks Mario)
    --the MM Top 10 EP charts 1959-63 (thanks Alan Smith)
    --the Pop Weekly Top 5 EP charts Sep-Nov 1965 (Alan)
    --and the Music Echo Top 20 to Top 10 EP charts, Nov 1965 - April 1966 (Alan)

    History is history !!

    Leave a comment:


  • kingofskiffle
    replied
    Possibly because it's only an extra 5 months. Other charts (with one exception!) are for multiple years. The exception is the strike charts in 1971.

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  • RokinRobinOfLocksley
    replied
    Originally posted by MrTibbs View Post
    RR started compiling the first EP chart on 12th March 1960 with the first #1 EP being Cliff with the Expresso Bongo EP. Yeah RM started printing this EP chart also in 1962 alongside the RR chart.
    Melody Maker began compiling an EP chart on 21 Nov 1959, a Top 10 chart. Which ran till 25 May 1963. My notes say these charts are posted in a thread here on UKMix. And the MM EP charts prior to the RR EP charts also appear in the Complete UK Charts thread on page 30.

    Which brings up an interesting question. The 'official' charts declared official charts prior to RR for singles and LPs, but they didn't do so for EPs. Why not? Why not declare the MM EP charts prior to RR as 'official' as well? The RM and MM LP charts were declared 'official' prior to RR, so there shouldn't be a problem with them being MM EP charts. Whadaya say Graham Betts?

    Leave a comment:


  • kingofskiffle
    replied
    I'd imagine that regular ones could be trained in how to send the data in, but then the holiday relief might mess it up.... Getting good clean data is always an issue - hence why the compilers loved Bar codes in the 1980's/90's Well, when they wherenot trying to get cornflakes into the chart

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  • MrTibbs
    replied
    If the early RM Dealer Returns were anything to go by, a nightmare for a chart compiler as I found out doing the 1954/1955 charts, then I can't imagine NME's were any better to work with. Some dealers combining sides, some not, and some combining versions even. So I can understand the difficulties for the papers too.

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  • Splodj
    replied
    Why humiliate yourself by quoting a ridiculous Goons song title when you can quickly ask for it generically and discretely slip it into your suitcase!

    Leave a comment:


  • kingofskiffle
    replied
    As with the Beatles, I suspect enough retailers simply listed as both sides. If your inputs are both sides you can’t split them .

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  • Splodj
    replied
    Seems that there was a debate going on about whether to combine the sides - or maybe just confusion! Perhaps NME were starting to think they should only separate double A sides, or perhaps it was reported to them that most people were simply asking for "that Goons record please".

    With the subsequent success of the Ying Tong Song, most notably its climb back up the chart in 1973, it is difficult to believe that it was also a B-side when originally released.

    Leave a comment:


  • MrTibbs
    replied
    Greetings Pop Pickers

    Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending July 14th 1956

    Here are all '' the uppers, the downers, the just hanging 'arounders '

    The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending July 14th 1956 NME MM RM Total
    Last This The Sound Survey Stores 65 20 60 Points
    Week Week The Top 30 Singles Chart TOP 30 Scored
    1 1 I'll Be Home - Pat Boone 1 1 1 4350
    4 2 All Star Hit Parade - Various Artists 2 3 2 4185
    10 3 Bluebottle Blues / I'm Walking Backwards For Christmas - The Goons * 4 3 3985
    13 4 Why Do Fools Fall In Love - The Teenagers 5 2 4 3890
    3 5 Heartbreak Hotel - Elvis Presley 3 4 6 3860
    8 6 Experiments With Mice - Johnny Dankworth 7 6 5 3620
    6 7 Hot Diggity - Perry Como 6 5 9 3465
    2 8 Lost John - Lonnie Donegan 7 9 7 3440
    11 9 The Wayward Wind - Gogi Grant 9 7 10 3170
    5 10 The Saints Rock'n'Roll - Bill Haley and His Comets 13 8 8 3010
    12 11 The Wayward Wind - Tex Ritter 11 12 13 2760
    9 12 My September Love - David Whitfield 10 20 15 2545
    29 13 Who Are We - Ronnie Hilton 12 15 17 2395
    14 14 Moonglow And Theme From Picnic - Morris Stoloff 18 14 12 2325
    7 15 No Other Love - Ronnie Hilton 14 18 16 2265
    15 16 Blue Suede Shoes - Elvis Presley 19 11 14 2200
    NEW 17 Bad Penny Blues - Humphrey Lyttelton 21 19 1370
    16 18 A Tear Fell - Teresa Brewer 15 16 1340
    19 19 Too Young To Go Steady - Nat King Cole 17 17 1190
    23 20 Portuguese Washerwoman - Joe 'Fingers' Carr 26 20 985
    24 21 Whatever Will Be Will Be - Doris Day 28 18 975
    NEW 22 A Sweet Old Fashioned Girl - Teresa Brewer 20 715
    NEW 23 Walk Hand In Hand - Tony Martin 21 650
    27 24 The Faithful Hussar - Ted Heath 23 520
    21 25 Hot Diggity - Michael Holliday 24 455
    NEW 26 Kiss Me Another - Georgia Gibbs 25 390
    18 27 Skiffle Session (EP) - Lonnie Donegan 27 260
    25 28 Serenade - Slim Whitman 19 240
    NEW 29 The Faithful Hussar - Louis Armstrong 29 130
    NEW 30 The Birds And The Bees - Alma Cogan 30 65
    Bluebottle Blues - The Goons (A) 13
    I'm Walking Backwards For Christmas - The Goons (B) 9
    Songs For Swingin' Lovers (LP) - Frank Sinatra 16 11 2175
    17 Bluebottle Blues - The Goons
    20 The Happy Whistler - Don Robertson
    22 Blue Suede Shoes - Carl Perkins
    26 Mountain Greenery - Mel Torme
    28 Out Of Town - Max Bygraves
    * An explanation. Strangely this week NME combined the sides of this single against normal practise of splitting sides. To compound this RM appear to have done the same with Bluebottle Blues taking a top three placing and I'm Walking Backwards vanishing from their chart. Only MM appears to have split the sides. So MM split sides have been ignored and an average of 3.5 awarded to MM from an average taken from NME and RM to validate a more likely overall chart position, as both NME and RM have gone with combined sides. This will be the formula I will use going forward for all similar situations like this where there is division between splitting and non split sides on the various charts.

    Leave a comment:


  • MrTibbs
    replied
    RR started compiling the first EP chart on 12th March 1960 with the first #1 EP being Cliff with the Expresso Bongo EP. Yeah RM started printing this EP chart also in 1962 alongside the RR chart.

    Leave a comment:


  • kingofskiffle
    replied
    Originally posted by brian05 View Post
    NEW 18 Skiffle Session (EP) - Lonnie Donegan - 20 in RM.

    Did RM not have a separate EP chart at this time?
    I don't think RM ever had an EP chart of their own? They listed the RR one in 1962-67 but that was when they took the RR charts after they stopped compiling their own.

    Leave a comment:


  • kingofskiffle
    commented on 's reply
    Yes, as the plan was to create. singles chart - RM remove LP's in a few weeks, so points build only go for one (NME).

  • brian05
    replied
    NEW 18 Skiffle Session (EP) - Lonnie Donegan - 20 in RM.

    Did RM not have a separate EP chart at this time?

    Leave a comment:


  • Graham76man
    replied
    I take it that the policy is to leave LP's out of the top 30?

    Leave a comment:


  • Robbie
    replied
    The Goons single has effectively been flipped with the B side storming ahead of the A side.

    Leave a comment:


  • MrTibbs
    replied
    Greetings Pop Pickers

    Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending July 7th 1956

    Here are all '' the uppers, the downers, the just hanging 'arounders '

    The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending July7th 1956 NME MM RM Total
    Last This The Sound Survey Stores 65 20 60 Points
    Week Week The Top 29 Singles Chart TOP 30 Scored
    1 1 I'll Be Home - Pat Boone 1 1 1 4350
    3 2 Lost John - Lonnie Donegan 2 3 2 4185
    2 3 Heartbreak Hotel - Elvis Presley 3 2 4 4020
    12 4 All Star Hit Parade - Various Artists 4 6 3 3935
    6 5 The Saints Rock'n'Roll - Bill Haley and His Comets 5 4 6 3730
    4 6 Hot Diggity - Perry Como 7 5 5 3640
    5 7 No Other Love - Ronnie Hilton 8 8 10 3215
    18 8 Experiments With Mice - Johnny Dankworth 10 14 8 3085
    8 9 My September Love - David Whitfield 9 15 11 2950
    30 10 I'm Walking Backwards For Christmas - The Goons (B) 6 9 18 2845
    17 11 The Wayward Wind - Gogi Grant 16 7 9 2775
    14 12 The Wayward Wind - Tex Ritter 15 11 12 2580
    19 13 Why Do Fools Fall In Love - The Teenagers 13 18 13 2510
    11 14 Moonglow And Theme From Picnic - Morris Stoloff 11 13 17 2500
    10 15 Blue Suede Shoes - Elvis Presley 17 12 14 2310
    7 16 A Tear Fell - Teresa Brewer 17 10 15 2290
    NEW 17 Bluebottle Blues - The Goons (A) 17 7 1720
    NEW 18 Skiffle Session (EP) - Lonnie Donegan 20 20 1375
    9 19 Too Young To Go Steady - Nat King Cole 14 1105
    21 20 The Happy Whistler - Don Robertson 22 19 825
    13 21 Hot Diggity - Michael Holliday (A) 19 780
    16 22 Blue Suede Shoes - Carl Perkins 24 15 775
    20 23 Portuguese Washerwoman - Joe 'Fingers' Carr 20 715
    23 24 Whatever Will Be Will Be - Doris Day 23 520
    26 25 Serenade - Slim Whitman 27 19 500
    24 26 Mountain Greenery - Mel Torme 25 390
    NEW 27 The Faithful Hussar - Ted Heath 28 195
    27 28 Out Of Town - Max Bygraves 29 130
    29 29 Who Are We - Ronnie Hilton 30 65
    Songs For Swingin' Lovers (LP) - Frank Sinatra 12 16 2135
    Carousel Soundtrack (LP) 26 20 985
    15 Gal With The Yaller Shoes - Michael Holliday (B)
    22 Rock And Roll Waltz - Kay Starr
    25 Theme From 'Man With The Golden Arm' - Billy May
    28 Poor People Of Paris - Winifred Atwell
    * RM omitted a #19 this week but two records at #20. As this was what the chart said I have gone with this option.

    Leave a comment:


  • Graham76man
    replied
    The Goons record has 25 most owns as a 45 and 25 as a 78 on the 45Cat & Worlds site. Which is very good for a 50's record there.

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  • MrTibbs
    replied
    Agree here too. There were parts of each record that were really funny but other sections make me go, what was that all about.

    Leave a comment:


  • Splodj
    replied
    Yes the way that 'publicity stunt' line is delivered infers the original lyric was something ruder rhyming with 'front'!

    Spike justified the release date by saying it was for his mum who lived in Australia where it was the middle of winter, which is itself absurd on many levels.

    Leave a comment:


  • kingofskiffle
    replied
    I think some is changing acceptability. SOme of their characters are absolutely not correct today (Same with Little Britain and others) but we all know an Eccles. I’ve worked with some…. And we all know a Ned Seagoon…. And I think that is what makes it work. The war was still fresh and Spike was dealing with that and being ex service men writing for ex servicemen the jokes where ones they knew. And also horribly rude if you know the story behind it…

    Leave a comment:


  • Splodj
    replied
    Agree with that assessment of The Goons. You can hear though that the audience at the time thought all of it was funny! In fact the show often starts with the audience laughing, presumably at something visual. Most of my knowledge of the songs in this era comes from the two musical items in each of their shows.

    Must be the only Christmas record to have been released in summer.

    Leave a comment:


  • kingofskiffle
    replied
    Ooh and the Goons appear as if by magic maybe not magic but they still appear. Some of that was sheer brilliance. Some (to me listening in the 1990’s for the first time) was odd and strange and not funny at all…

    Leave a comment:


  • MrTibbs
    replied
    Greetings Pop Pickers

    Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending June 30th 1956

    Here are all '' the uppers, the downers, the just hanging 'arounders '

    The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending June 30th 1956 NME MM RM Total
    Last This The Sound Survey Stores 65 20 60 Points
    Week Week The Top 30 Singles Chart TOP 30 Scored
    1 1 I'll Be Home - Pat Boone 1 1 1 4350
    2 2 Heartbreak Hotel - Elvis Presley 2 2 3 4145
    3 3 Lost John - Lonnie Donegan 3 6 2 4060
    6 4 Hot Diggity - Perry Como 5 3 4 3870
    5 5 No Other Love - Ronnie Hilton 4 5 6 3775
    4 6 The Saints Rock'n'Roll - Bill Haley and His Comets 6 4 5 3725
    7 7 A Tear Fell - Teresa Brewer 9 7 7 3350
    8 8 My September Love - David Whitfield 7 13 9 3240
    14 9 Too Young To Go Steady - Nat King Cole 8 10 13 2995
    10 10 Blue Suede Shoes - Elvis Presley 10 8 12 2965
    9 11 Moonglow And Theme From Picnic - Morris Stoloff 12 12 11 2815
    NEW 12 All Star Hit Parade - Various Artists 16 15 8 2675
    12 13 Hot Diggity - Michael Holliday (A) 14 16 15 2365
    NEW 14 The Wayward Wind - Tex Ritter 18 9 18 2065
    15 15 Gal With The Yaller Shoes - Michael Holliday (B) 19 10 2040
    11 16 Blue Suede Shoes - Carl Perkins 17 14 19 1970
    NEW 17 The Wayward Wind - Gogi Grant 20 20 17 1775
    19 18 Experiments With Mice - Johnny Dankworth 10 11 1765
    NEW 19 Why Do Fools Fall In Love - The Teenagers 22 15 1545
    NEW 20 Portuguese Washerwoman - Joe 'Fingers' Carr 25 19 1110
    13 21 The Happy Whistler - Don Robertson 15 1040
    20 22 Rock And Roll Waltz - Kay Starr 24 17 735
    NEW 23 Whatever Will Be Will Be - Doris Day 20 715
    16 24 Mountain Greenery - Mel Torme 23 520
    17 25 Theme From 'Man With The Golden Arm' - Billy May 28 19 435
    27 26 Serenade - Slim Whitman 25 390
    18 27 Out Of Town - Max Bygraves 30 18 325
    21 28 Poor People Of Paris - Winifred Atwell 27 260
    NEW 29 Who Are We - Ronnie Hilton 29 130
    NEW 30 I'm Walking Backwards For Christmas - The Goons 30 65
    Songs For Swingin' Lovers (LP) - Frank Sinatra 13 13 2250
    22 Port-Au-Prince - Winifred Atwell
    23 Only You - The Hilltoppers
    24 Theme From 'The Threepenny Opera' - Louis Armstrong
    25 The Happy Whistler - Cyril Stapleton
    26 Hot Diggity - The Stargazers
    28 Rich Man Poor Man - Jimmy Young
    29 Ivory Tower - The Three Kayes
    30 You Can't Be True To Two - Dave King

    Leave a comment:

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