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The Ultimate Averaged Chart - The BBC Chart Re-Imagined

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  • Great minds and all that Robin, I had changed the BBC column colour to the same as the rest, didn't like it as I remembered I made it different in the first place to differentiate between it and the charts for compilation but forgot to change it back.
    You want the points for albums too, no problem lol.
    The Ultimate Averaged Chart. The Definitive Chart Reflecting The Fifties and Sixties.

    Comment


    • Thanks for posting the overall points total Brian. It's something I wouldn't have thought about asking for but it does add an extra bonus to your great presentation style of the Ultimate Averaged Chart that you are posting.

      Comment


      • Thanks Robbie. Appreciated.
        The Ultimate Averaged Chart. The Definitive Chart Reflecting The Fifties and Sixties.

        Comment


        • Greetings Pop Pickers ! Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending 1st August 1964.

          * Denotes an average score awarded as RR excluded EP's, but appeared in all 3 other music paper charts.


          The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending August 1st 1964 BBC NME MM Disc RR Total
          Last This Chart Chart Chart Chart Chart Points
          Week Week Title and Artist Number Of Chart Positions 30 Scored
          1 1 A Hard Day's Night - The Beatles 1 1 1 1 1 19050
          2 2 It's All Over Now - The Rolling Stones 2 2 2 3 2 18315
          8 3 Do Wah Diddy Diddy - Manfred Mann 3 3 3 2 5 17710
          3 4 I Just Don't Know What To Do With Myself - Dusty Springfield 4 4 4 5 3 17130
          6 5 Call Up The Groups - The Barron Knights 5 5 5 4 4 16695
          4 6 House Of The Rising Sun - The Animals 6 7 8 6 7 15090
          5 7 Hold Me - P J Proby 7 9 6 8 6 15075
          9 8 On The Beach - Cliff Richard 8 6 9 10 8 14555
          7 9 I Won't Forget You - Jim Reeves 9 10 7 9 9 14270
          10 10 Tobacco Road - The Nashville Teens 10 8 13 7 10 13285
          14 11 Someday We're Gonna Love Again - The Searchers 11 11 10 11 12 12865
          15 12 Wishin' And Hopin' - The Merseybeats 13 12 11 14 13 12030
          20 13 I Get Around - The Beach Boys 12 14 12 12 11 11750
          21 14 It's Only Make Believe - Billy Fury 14 13 14 13 18 10755
          11 15 Kissin' Cousins - Elvis Presley 15 16 16 16 15 9610
          12 16 You're No Good - The Swinging Blue Jeans 16 14 17 19 17 9290
          13 17 It's Over - Roy Orbison 17 19 15 22 14 8745
          16 18 Someone Someone - Brian Poole and The Tremeloes 18 18 18 18 16 8425
          NEW 19 From A Window - Billy J Kramer and The Dakotas 20 17 19 21 22 7565
          17 20 Long Tall Sally (EP) - The Beatles 19 20 22 15 * 7070
          19 21 Ramona - The Bachelors 22 23 21 20 19 6220
          27 22 I Found Out The Hard Way - The Four Pennies 24 23 20 24 25 5560
          18 23 Hello Dolly - Louis Armstrong 23 23 24 23 20 5085
          24 24 (They Call Her) La Bamba - The Crickets 25 27 25 27 21 3550
          NEW 25 The Ferris Wheel - The Everly Brothers 26 20 28 27 2840
          23 26 Like Dreamers Do - The Applejacks 27 23 29 26 2625
          NEW 27 You'll Never Get To Heaven - Dionne Warwick 28 26 27 26 2500
          NEW 28 The Girl From Ipanema - Stan Getz and Joao Gilberto 26 1250
          22 29 Nobody I Know - Peter and Gordon 29 29 28 1155
          25 30 Sweet William - Millie 28 30 30 935
          A Hard Day's Night (LP) - The Beatles 21 22 17 3200
          My Guy - Mary Wells 29= 30 24 795
          I Love You Because - Jim Reeves 29= 23 680
          Hello Dolly - Frankie Vaughan 28 600
          Have I The Right - The Honeycombs 25 600
          Why Not Tonight - The Mojos 30 250
          Dimples - John Lee Hooker 29 170
          The Ultimate Averaged Chart. The Definitive Chart Reflecting The Fifties and Sixties.

          Comment


          • Greetings Pop Pickers ! Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending 8th August 1964.

            * Denotes an average score awarded as RR excluded EP's, but appeared in all 3 other music paper charts.

            The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending August 8th 1964 BBC NME MM Disc RR Total
            Last This Chart Chart Chart Chart Chart Points
            Week Week Title and Artist Number Of Chart Positions 30 Scored
            1 1 A Hard Day's Night - The Beatles 1 1 1 1 1 19050
            3 2 Do Wah Diddy Diddy - Manfred Mann 2 2 2 2 2 18415
            2 3 It's All Over Now - The Rolling Stones 3 3 3 3 4 17695
            5 4 Call Up The Groups - The Barron Knights 4 5 4 4 3 17030
            4 5 I Just Don't Know What To Do With Myself - Dusty Springfield 5 4 5 5 5 16710
            10 6 Tobacco Road - The Nashville Teens 6 6 8 6 6 15375
            8 7 On The Beach - Cliff Richard 7 7 7 8 7 15140
            9 8 I Won't Forget You - Jim Reeves 8 8 9 9 9 14170
            11 9 Someday We're Gonna Love Again - The Searchers 11 11 6 12 11 13850
            13 10 I Get Around - The Beach Boys 9 9 11 7 10 13585
            6 11 House Of The Rising Sun - The Animals 10 10 10 11 8 13405
            7 12 Hold Me - P J Proby 12 12 13 10 13 11930
            14 13 It's Only Make Believe - Billy Fury 13 13 12 13 12 11765
            12 14 Wishin' And Hopin' - The Merseybeats 14 15 14 14 14 10595
            19 15 From A Window - Billy J Kramer and The Dakotas 15 17 16 15 15 9510
            22 16 I Found Out The Hard Way - The Four Pennies 17 20 15 17 23 8280
            NEW 17 Have I The Right - The Honeycombs 16 17 19 18 18 8205
            27 18 You'll Never Get To Heaven - Dionne Warwick 21= 14 20 25 6660
            17 19 It's Over - Roy Orbison 20 25 17 25 17 6490
            16 20 You're No Good - The Swinging Blue Jeans 19 21 22 20 19 6370
            18 21 Someone Someone - Brian Poole and The Tremeloes 21= 24 23 23 20 5135
            NEW 22 It's For You - Cilla Black 26 15 27 29 28 4655
            15 23 Kissin' Cousins - Elvis Presley 23 23 24 16 4625
            25 24 The Ferris Wheel - The Everly Brothers 25 19 28 21 29 4320
            20 25 Long Tall Sally (EP) - The Beatles 24 27 25 19 * 4129
            28 26 The Girl From Ipanema - Stan Getz and Joao Gilberto 28 29 18 27 4050
            24 27 (They Call Her) La Bamba - The Crickets 30 30 21 24 3295
            23 28 Hello Dolly - Louis Armstrong 27 28 29 22 22 2765
            21 29 Ramona - The Bachelors 29 26 30 21 2200
            NEW 30 Thinking Of You Baby - The Dave Clark Five 26 1000
            A Hard Day's Night (LP) - The Beatles 18 22 16 3300
            I Love You Because - Jim Reeves 26 26 925
            The Crying Game - Dave Berry 24 700
            My Guy - Mary Wells 27 340
            Like Dreamers Do - The Applejacks 30 30 335
            As Tears Go By - Marianne Faithfull 28 300
            The Ultimate Averaged Chart. The Definitive Chart Reflecting The Fifties and Sixties.

            Comment


            • Greetings Pop Pickers ! Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending 15th August 1964.


              The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending August 15th 1964 BBC NME MM Disc RR Total
              Last This Chart Chart Chart Chart Chart Points
              Week Week Title and Artist Number Of Chart Positions 30 Scored
              2 1 Do Wah Diddy Diddy - Manfred Mann 1 1 1 1 1 19050
              1 2 A Hard Day's Night - The Beatles 2 2 2 2 2 18415
              4 3 Call Up The Groups - The Barron Knights 3 4 3 3 3 17580
              3 4 It's All Over Now - The Rolling Stones 4 3 5 5 4 16995
              6 5 Tobacco Road - The Nashville Teens 5 6 4 6 6 16375
              5 6 I Just Don't Know What To Do With Myself - Dusty Springfield 7 5 7 7 7 15640
              8 7 I Won't Forget You - Jim Reeves 6 9 6 4 5 15560
              10 8 I Get Around - The Beach Boys 8 10 8 9 8 14105
              17 9 Have I The Right - The Honeycombs 9 7 10 8 11 14050
              7 10 On The Beach - Cliff Richard 10 8 11 10 9 13570
              13 11 It's Only Make Believe - Billy Fury 11 11 9 11 10 13285
              15 12 From A Window - Billy J Kramer and The Dakotas 12 13 12 12 12 11865
              22 13 It's For You - Cilla Black 13= 12 14 14 17 10940
              16 14 I Found Out The Hard Way - The Four Pennies 13= 14 16 13 14 10395
              11 15 House Of The Rising Sun - The Animals 15 18 13 15 13 10230
              9 16 Someday We're Gonna Love Again - The Searchers 16 15 15 16 16 9975
              14 17 Wishin' And Hopin' - The Merseybeats 17 16 17 17 15 9260
              18 18 You'll Never Get To Heaven - Dionne Warwick 18 17 19 20 20 7835
              12 19 Hold Me - P J Proby 19 21 18 19 18 7555
              24 20 The Ferris Wheel - The Everly Brothers 20 20 20 22 22 6615
              26 21 The Girl From Ipanema - Stan Getz and Joao Gilberto 21= 22 21 25 30 4985
              30 22 Thinking Of You Baby - The Dave Clark Five 25 23 22 27 4250
              NEW 23 You Really Got Me - The Kinks 24 19 29 21 3900
              NEW 24 The Crying Game - Dave Berry 23 26 24 21 2800
              RE 25 I Love You Because - Jim Reeves 26 25 30 19 2620
              19 26 It's Over - Roy Orbison 28= 23 24 2595
              23 27 Kissin' Cousins - Elvis Presley 27 26 28 23 2430
              NEW 28 I Wouldn't Trade You For The World - The Bachelors 28= 24 23 2200
              27 29 (They Call Her) La Bamba - The Crickets 24 1750
              25 30 Long Tall Sally (EP) - The Beatles 30 27 28 1300
              A Hard Day's Night (LP) - The Beatles 21= 18 1300
              The Wedding - Julie Rogers 25 1200
              You're No Good - The Swinging Blue Jeans 28 28 855
              As Tears Go By - Marianne Faithfull 26 27 840
              Happiness - Ken Dodd 27 800
              Someone Someone - Brian Poole and The Tremeloes 30 25 760
              Hello Dolly - Louis Armstrong 29 29 570
              Ramona - The Bachelors 26 425
              How Can I Tell Her - The Fourmost 30 200
              She's Not There - Zombies 29 200
              The Ultimate Averaged Chart. The Definitive Chart Reflecting The Fifties and Sixties.

              Comment


              • Brian I am amazed at how fast you can produce these charts.
                It took me between 1pm till 6pm yesterday to knock out one 1967 Real Chart!
                Education for anyone aged 12 to 16 has made a mess of the world!

                Comment


                • Greetings Pop Pickers ! Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending 22nd August 1964.

                  * Denotes an average score awarded as RR excluded EP's, but appeared in all 3 other music paper charts.


                  The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending August 22nd 1964 BBC NME MM Disc RR Total
                  Last This Chart Chart Chart Chart Chart Points
                  Week Week Title and Artist Total Chart Positions 30 Scored
                  1 1 Do Wah Diddy Diddy - Manfred Mann 1 1 1 1 1 19050
                  2 2 A Hard Day's Night - The Beatles 2 3 2 3 2 18115
                  9 3 Have I The Right - The Honeycombs 3 2 4 2 3 17830
                  3 4 Call Up The Groups - The Barron Knights 4 4 3 5 5 17210
                  7 5 I Won't Forget You - Jim Reeves 5 6 5 4 4 16495
                  5 6 Tobacco Road - The Nashville Teens 6 5 6 6 6 16075
                  4 7 It's All Over Now - The Rolling Stones 7 7 7 7 7 15240
                  8 8 I Get Around - The Beach Boys 9 10 8 8 8 14205
                  13 9 It's For You - Cilla Black 8 9 9 9 13 13630
                  6 10 I Just Don't Know What To Do With Myself - Dusty Springfield 10 11 10 10 9 13220
                  11 11 It's Only Make Believe - Billy Fury 11 13 11 11 12 12215
                  23 12 You Really Got Me - The Kinks 13 8 14 12 15 12110
                  10 13 On The Beach - Cliff Richard 12 12 13 14 11 11700
                  12 14 From A Window - Billy J Kramer and The Dakotas 14 17 12 15 10 10935
                  14 15 I Found Out The Hard Way - The Four Pennies 15 16 15 13 14 10245
                  28 16 I Wouldn't Trade You For The World - The Bachelors 16 15 18 16 21 8800
                  25 17 I Love You Because - Jim Reeves 17 22 16 17 16 8225
                  NEW 18 Five By Five (EP) - The Rolling Stones 18 13 26 18 * 7170
                  15 19 House Of The Rising Sun - The Animals 21= 24 17 20 22 6765
                  24 20 The Crying Game - Dave Berry 19 21 20 21 20 6685
                  16 21 Someday We're Gonna Love Again - The Searchers 20 18 22 24 18 6655
                  17 22 Wishin'And Hopin' - The Merseybeats 21= 25 19 22 17 6290
                  18 23 You'll Never Get To Heaven - Dionne Warwick 23 23 21 27 23 5180
                  NEW 24 Such A Night - Elvis Presley 26 19 29 23 3700
                  22 25 Thinking Of You Baby - The Dave Clark Five 28 25 24 26 3375
                  20 26 The Ferris Wheel - The Everly Brothers 29 27 23 30 27 3240
                  NEW 27 As Tears Go By - Marianne Faithfull 24= 28 27 26 19 3120
                  NEW 28 She's Not There - The Zombies 27 20 25 28 3055
                  19 29 Hold Me - P J Proby 30 25 28 24 2395
                  NEW 30 The Wedding - Julie Rogers 28 29 25 1460
                  A Hard Day's Night (LP) - The Beatles 24= 19 1200
                  How Can I Tell Her - The Fourmost 29 400
                  Long Tall Sally (EP) - The Beatles 30 250
                  Twelve Steps To Love - Brian Poole and The Tremeloes 30 200
                  The Girl From Ipanema - Stan Getz and Joao Gilberto 29 170
                  Kissin' Cousins - Elvis Presley 30 85
                  The Ultimate Averaged Chart. The Definitive Chart Reflecting The Fifties and Sixties.

                  Comment


                  • Having the excell spreadsheet does all the hard work Graham. I simply input the record titles and chart positions 1 - 30 for the NME column, then just the additional titles and chart positions in the other 3 chart columns then allow the spreadsheet to do all the calculations. I then just double check it over to ensure I have input the correct info, save it, and post it here for you guys to enjoy. All in all as I don't rush the process it takes about 1.5 hours per chart.

                    It's amazing what you see for the first time when you see all the music paper charts lined up against each other for comparison.
                    I never appreciated how often and how many tied positions the NME had and often in very high chart positions.
                    NME and Disc, closely align, probably due to using advance orders. As you would expect the greatest variation in chart positions occurs in positions 21 -30 in the music paper charts. Fascinating Stuff though !
                    The Ultimate Averaged Chart. The Definitive Chart Reflecting The Fifties and Sixties.

                    Comment


                    • Greetings Pop Pickers ! Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending 29th August 1964.

                      * Denotes an average score awarded as RR excluded EP's, but appeared in all 3 other music paper charts.
                      The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending August 29th 1964 BBC NME MM Disc RR Total
                      Last This Chart Chart Chart Chart Chart Points
                      Week Week Title and Artist Total Chart Positions 30 Scored
                      3 1 Have I The Right - The Honeycombs 1 1 1 1 1 19050
                      1 2 Do Wah Diddy Diddy - Manfred Mann 2 2 2 2 2 18415
                      5 3 I Won't Forget You - Jim Reeves 3 4 3 3 3 17580
                      12 4 You Really Got Me - The Kinks 4 3 5 4 4 17095
                      2 5 A Hard Day's Night - The Beatles 5 5 4 5 5 16760
                      6 6 Tobacco Road - The Nashville Teens 6 6 6 8 6 15675
                      4 7 Call Up The Groups - The Barron Knights 8 7 8 7 10 14735
                      9 8 It's For You - Cilla Black 7 8 9 6 8 14555
                      8 9 I Get Around - The Beach Boys 9 11 7 10 7 14140
                      7 10 It's All Over Now - The Rolling Stones 10 10 10 11 9 13320
                      16 11 I Wouldn't Trade You For The World - The Bachelors 11 13 11 9 11 12500
                      20 12 The Crying Game - Dave Berry 12 11 12 12 12 12265
                      18 13 Five By Five (EP) - The Rolling Stones 17 9 19 13 * 10679
                      11 14 It's Only Make Believe - Billy Fury 13 16 13 17 17 10090
                      17 15 I Love You Because - Jim Reeves 14 19 14 18 14 9395
                      13 16 On The Beach - Cliff Richard 18 15 16 22 15 9210
                      24 17 Such A Night - Elvis Presley 16 13 20 14 20 8985
                      10 18 I Just Don't Know What To Do With Myself - Dusty Springfield 15 22 15 15 13 8930
                      14 19 From A Window - Billy J Kramer and The Dakotas 19 19 17 16 19 8420
                      15 20 I Found Out The Hard Way - The Four Pennies 20 18 18 19 18 8155
                      28 21 She's Not There - The Zombies 22 17 22 24 21 6600
                      27 22 As Tears Go By - Marianne Faithfull 21 23 21 23 16 6175
                      NEW 23 Rag Doll - The Four Seasons 24 21 27 20 29 4270
                      30 24 The Wedding - Julie Rogers 23 26 24 25 23 4030
                      23 25 You'll Never Get To Heaven - Dionne Warwick 25 24 26 27 22 3815
                      22 26 Wishin' And Hopin' - The Merseybeats 28 23 30 24 2695
                      NEW 27 I'm Into Something Good - Herman's Hermits 27 25 26 25 2210
                      19 28 House Of The Rising Sun - The Animals 29 25 29 30 1785
                      21 29 Someday We're Gonna Love Again - The Searchers 30 29 28 28 1405
                      26 30 The Ferris Wheel - The Everly Brothers 29 26 925
                      A Hard Day's Night (LP) - The Beatles 26 30 21 2100
                      Everybody Loves Somebody - Dean Martin 27 800
                      I Should Have Known Better - The Naturals 28 27 640
                      You Never Can Tell - Chuck Berry 28 600
                      Thinking Of You Baby - The Dave Clark Five 30 250
                      Twelve Steps To Love - Brian Poole and The Tremeloes 30 200
                      Last edited by MrTibbs; Sat July 4, 2020, 01:37.
                      The Ultimate Averaged Chart. The Definitive Chart Reflecting The Fifties and Sixties.

                      Comment


                      • The Stones EP rise to number 13 in the Ultimate chart should have been reflected in the BBC chart. Perhaps Chinnery had difficulty dividing by 3! 4 positions out is a significant error.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Splodj View Post
                          The Stones EP rise to number 13 in the Ultimate chart should have been reflected in the BBC chart. Perhaps Chinnery had difficulty dividing by 3! 4 positions out is a significant error.
                          Perhaps Derek goofed and gave the EP 31 points for RR, which would average out to 18 BBC position points...
                          Last edited by RokinRobinOfLocksley; Fri July 3, 2020, 15:09.

                          Comment


                          • Splodj
                            Splodj commented
                            Editing a comment
                            31 points would have put it at 19, below Billy J at 18. Looks like just a general hash-up in the calculation.

                        • Hello everybody
                          I would like to take the liberty in attaching a pdf scan of a press cutting which I think you will agree is relevant to this thread, and to my knowledge has not been available on the internet before now. In terms of the dates you have reached MrTibbs, it is a little premature, but as you are moving so fast and accurately I thought that would be OK. Apologies for not being able to do an A3 scan, and so it is spread across 2 pages.

                          This is from The Sun and published early in December 1964 and relevant to the chart week ended 28 Nov 1964. The Sun undertook a thorough investigative article about the UK charts and their accuracy. It bears interesting comparison with the Cable 1976 analysis document, also mentioned in this thread. Interestingly The Sun used actual sales from a sample of 71 stores covering 31,000 sales within that week. To their credit, they reported that they asked 250 stores to co-operate.

                          Unfortunately the attachment is over the size limit, and perhaps I could get permission to send the pdfs to the moderator or via dropbox etc.

                          I would also like to enclose my excel analysis of their reported sales, revealing the points proportional to each chart position. Someone cleverer than I can possibly prepare a logarithmic graph from The Sun’s figures. Note that the paper’s NME reported chart positions are incorrect. The others I think are correct, but they chose not to print the BBC chart positions. The article may have been prepared before the broadcast of the BBC charts that Sunday. I have therefore added the BBC chart as broadcast, and of course unmodified by mrtibbs’ calculations.
                          As with the 1976 figures, it reveals the far greater sales proportionately for the top positions, which will endorse mrtibbs’ view of allocating extra points to a No.1.

                          I would be interested to hear people’s responses, once I can get an upload to the thread.
                          Keep on please mrtibbs.

                          Comment


                          • As I mentioned above i take approx 1.5 hours per chart, and because the spreadsheet does the work for me this is done in just a bit over an hour. I mention this because like you highlight above Splodj where I see an unusual result I like to double check my input figures again to ensure the error is not at my end. It wasn't. Either it was a BBC compilation error like Robin says, and let's remember there were lots of these over the years, or one of those weeks the RR chart was unavailable. at the time of compilation.
                            Yes we would be most interested in seeing that article you refer to above membranemusic. I hope you manage to make it accessible for us too.
                            I can now confidently say after reviewing 8 months of The Ultimate Averaged Chart that adding the percentages of record store input has most definitely provided a much more accurate chart, impacting on ties and smoothing out anomalies to give a more accurate result.
                            This is your chart of the sixties guys !
                            The Ultimate Averaged Chart. The Definitive Chart Reflecting The Fifties and Sixties.

                            Comment


                            • Greetings Pop Pickers ! Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending 5th September 1964.

                              * Denotes an average score awarded as RR excluded EP's, but appeared in all 3 other music paper charts.

                              The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending September 5th 1964 BBC NME MM Disc RR Total
                              Last This Chart Chart Chart Chart Chart Points
                              Week Week Title and Artist Number Of Chart Positions 30 Scored
                              1 1 Have I The Right - The Honeycombs 1 1 1 1 1 19050
                              2 2 Do Wah Diddy Diddy - Manfred Mann 3 3 2 3 4 17945
                              4 3 You Really Got Me - The Kinks 2 2 4 2 2 17915
                              3 4 I Won't Forget You - Jim Reeves 4 4 3 4 3 17480
                              11 5 I Wouldn't Change You For The World - The Bachelors 5 5 5 5 8 16255
                              12 6 The Crying Game - Dave Berry 6 6 6 7 5 15860
                              5 7 A Hard Day's Night - The Beatles 7 8 7 6 6 15225
                              8 8 It's For You - Cilla Black 8 12 8 8 7 13890
                              6 9 Tobacco Road - The Nashville Teens 9 11 11 11 14 12445
                              13 10 Five By Five (EP) - The Rolling Stones 11 7 15 16 * 11864
                              9 11 I Get Around - The Beach Boys 10 16 10 14 9 11820
                              7 12 Call Up The Groups - The Barron Knights 15 18 9 17 11 11200
                              10 13 It's All Over Now - The Rolling Stones 12 17 12 15 10 10935
                              23 14 Rag Doll - The Four Seasons 13= 10 18 10 17 10740
                              27 15 I'm Into Something Good - Herman's Hermits 13= 9 19 9 18 10705
                              22 16 As Tears Go By Marianne Faithfull 16 13 16 12 15 10610
                              17 17 Such A Night - Elvis Presley 17 14 17 13 13 10230
                              15 18 I Love You Because - Jim Reeves 18 21 13 18 12 9415
                              21 19 She's Not There - The Zombies 19 19 14 19 16 9125
                              NEW 20 Where Did Our Love Go - The Supremes 22 15 27 21 5200
                              14 21 It's Only Make Believe - Billy Fury 24 26 20 30 21 4700
                              16 22 On The Beach - Cliff Richard 23 24 24 24 23 4530
                              24 23 The Wedding - Julie Rogers 21 30 21 23 19 4520
                              19 24 From A Window - Billy J Kramer and The Dakotas 25= 25 23 28 22 4265
                              NEW 25 Everybody Loves Somebody - Dean Martin 27 20 26 26 29 4120
                              20 26 I Found Out The Hard Way - The Four Pennies 28 28 22 29 24 3645
                              18 27 I Just Don't Know What To Do With Myself - Dusty Springfield 25= 25 22 20 3335
                              NEW 28 I Should Have Known Better - The Naturals 29 27 28 25 25 2660
                              NEW 29 You Never Can Tell - Chuck Berry 30 23 30 27 2190
                              26 30 Wishin' And Hopin' - The Merseybeats 29 30 585
                              A Hard Day's Night (LP) - The Beatles 20 22 20 2900
                              You'll Never Get To Heaven - Dionne Warwick 26 425
                              Together - P J Proby 29 400
                              Rhythm And Greens - The Shadows 27 400
                              The Ferris Wheel - The Everly Brothers 28 255
                              It's Gonna Be Alright - Gerry and The Pacemakers 30 200
                              The Ultimate Averaged Chart. The Definitive Chart Reflecting The Fifties and Sixties.

                              Comment


                              • Membranemusic, bring on your article, it sounds most interesting !!!

                                (Brian, on your 29 Aug 64 chart table, the component chart positions for the LP are blank...)

                                Comment


                                • Also in 1964 there was a World In Action television programme about the pop industry (broadcast 22-Sep) which you can see here ...
                                  https://player.bfi.org.uk/free/film/...de-1964-online

                                  The charts are featured from 9.20.

                                  There is a scene of someone compiling the Melody Maker charts. Interesting to see that the return sheet visible at 9.33 has spaces for a Top 40 to be filled out - but only the Top 16 have been entered!

                                  Coincidentally the World In Action programme the week before this was on The Sun, on the day that it launched.
                                  Last edited by Splodj; Fri July 3, 2020, 20:37.

                                  Comment


                                  • Sorry guys I had the positions on the master chart but omitted to carry over. Have done now. Thanks for noticing that Robin.
                                    The Ultimate Averaged Chart. The Definitive Chart Reflecting The Fifties and Sixties.

                                    Comment


                                    • Originally posted by Splodj View Post
                                      Also in 1964 there was a World In Action television programme about the pop industry (broadcast 22-Sep) which you can see here ...
                                      https://player.bfi.org.uk/free/film/...de-1964-online

                                      The charts are featured from 9.20.

                                      There is a scene of someone compiling the Melody Maker charts. Interesting to see that the return sheet visible at 9.33 has spaces for a Top 40 to be filled out - but only the Top 16 have been entered!

                                      Coincidentally the World In Action programme the week before this was on The Sun, on the day that it launched.
                                      Very interesting, though at times you can't hear what the commenter is saying for the loud music, which is what they used to say at the time
                                      As you would expect. The chart returns were filled in by the shop girls! I would put the album inclusions to this method. The other accusation of what the dealers want to sell, I have heard before. Still around when BMRB were doing charts. I do think this was true. Just because the way dealers got the records. I at one time and I suspect a lot of people thought that the shops used to get the records from the record companies sort of free paying the record company back a fee of the amount they sold it at. When in fact the dealers were buying in records from record companies and selling them on at a marked up price. But to do this the dealers had to be persuaded to take so many records in the first place. And that was like selling a Beatles record to a Rolling Stones fan. Of course the dealers needed no selling of those big name acts. They knew they could sell them. But anyone new was a different matter. So the record company reps would persuade the dealers in large numbers to take records they didn't like. And to get the public to buy this "crap" record the dealers would make out it was selling at 10, when it was selling at 45! So when it did get into the chart at number 10, the public started to buy it in the large numbers anyway!
                                      Some dealers or record shops probably broke lots of records into the charts on their own. One I know for certain that had that power was Brian Epstein and that was before the Beatles! In fact it's why Epstein had some clout with EMI. He was that good at predicting what would make the charts, that if he ordered more than the typical amount of a record. It went around quickly that it would be a hit! And a major distribution push went into action on the record.

                                      Filling in a dealer return would require either a lot of guess work, or somebody to write down stock levels in the shop. But at the end of the day what a store was selling must have been recorded, just to keep the shop stocked with the best sellers. With several stores selling the same records if the public couldn't get it from you they would go somewhere else. So if you haven't ordered enough you would loose money. If a shop had in stock 50 copies of a record at the start of the week and had only 10 left at the end, then they could compile a chart return on that basis. But the temptation would be to say you sold 40, of the 50, when you had only sold 10. And the other shops would do the same. A quick phone call around the area dealers from the other dealers was all that was needed. You could even get a chain going that extend to a wide area, way beyond. Maybe they were like the Freemasons! They could have even been members of these sorts of groups and you could have a big sale on a record that wasn't selling.
                                      Education for anyone aged 12 to 16 has made a mess of the world!

                                      Comment


                                      • Originally posted by membranemusic View Post
                                        Hello everybody
                                        I would like to take the liberty in attaching a pdf scan of a press cutting which I think you will agree is relevant to this thread, and to my knowledge has not been available on the internet before now. In terms of the dates you have reached MrTibbs, it is a little premature, but as you are moving so fast and accurately I thought that would be OK. Apologies for not being able to do an A3 scan, and so it is spread across 2 pages.
                                        Unfortunately the attachment is over the size limit, and perhaps I could get permission to send the pdfs to the moderator or via dropbox etc.
                                        I would be interested to hear people’s responses, once I can get an upload to the thread.
                                        Keep on please mrtibbs.
                                        You can use PDF archive to upload the file. It will not be too big for them. All you need to do is register which is free. Then upload to the site. You can then put a download link to it.
                                        PDF archive will not delete the file. And they don't charge you for it. Though you can delete it. And it's much better than dropbox and the rest.

                                        https://www.pdf-archive.com/
                                        Education for anyone aged 12 to 16 has made a mess of the world!

                                        Comment


                                        • membranemusic
                                          membranemusic commented
                                          Editing a comment
                                          Thanks for the tip re pdf-archive, graham76man. Unfortunately, Norton is screaming the word ‘malware’ at me for going there and testing a small document. Does anybody have any other suggestions? Sorry to be ultra-cautious.

                                        • RokinRobinOfLocksley
                                          RokinRobinOfLocksley commented
                                          Editing a comment
                                          Membrane, try putting it in dropbox then...

                                      • Greetings Pop Pickers ! Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending 12th September 1964.

                                        * Denotes an average score awarded to RR, as RR excluded EP's, but the record appeared in all 3 other music paper charts.

                                        The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending September 12th 1964 BBC NME MM Disc RR Total
                                        Last This Chart Chart Chart Chart Chart Points
                                        Week Week Title and Artist Number Of Chart Positions 30 Scored
                                        1 1 Have I The Right - The Honeycombs 1= 2 1 1 2 18765
                                        3 2 You Really Got Me - The Kinks 1= 1 2 2 1 18700
                                        4 3 I Won't Forget You - Jim Reeves 3 5 3 4 3 17280
                                        5 4 I Wouldn't Trade You For The World - The Bachelors 4 4 5 3 4 16995
                                        6 5 The Crying Game - Dave Berry 6 6 4 7 5 16360
                                        15 6 I'm Into Something Good - Herman's Hermits 5 3 7 5 7 16240
                                        2 7 Do Wah Diddy Diddy - Manfred Mann 7 8 5 6 6 15725
                                        14 8 Rag Doll - The Four Seasons 8 9 8 8 8 14405
                                        7 9 A Hard Day's Night - The Beatles 10 12 9 9 10 13285
                                        16 10 As Tears Go By - Marianne Faithfull 9 11 10 10 9 13220
                                        10 11 Five By Five (EP) - The Rolling Stones 11 10 13 12 * 12249
                                        20 12 Where Did Our Love Go - The Supremes 12 7 14 11 18 12155
                                        8 13 It's For You - Cilla Black 14 14 11 15 11 11700
                                        19 14 She's Not There - The Zombies 13 13 12 14 12 11665
                                        17 15 Such A Night - Elvis Presley 15 16 17 13 13 9830
                                        18 16 I Love You Because - Jim Reeves 16 21 15 16 14 8945
                                        11 17 I Get Around - The Beach Boys 17 20 16 17 15 8710
                                        25 18 Everybody Loves Somebody - Dean Martin 22 15 22 22 21 7200
                                        9 19 Tobacco Road - The Nashville Teens 19 22 19 18 20 7035
                                        23 20 The Wedding - Julie Rogers 18 19 21 23 16 6975
                                        13 21 It's All Over Now - The Rolling Stones 20 23 20 19 17 6740
                                        12 22 Call Up The Groups - The Barron Knights 21 26 18 20 19 6370
                                        NEW 23 Rhythm And Greens - The Shadows 23 18 23 27 22 5765
                                        NEW 24 Together - P J Proby 24 23 26 25 25 3960
                                        NEW 25 Is It True - Brenda Lee 25 17 24 30 3585
                                        28 26 I Should Have Known Better - The Naturals 27 29 25 28 24 2795
                                        21 27 It's Only Make Believe - Billy Fury 30 30 24 29 2120
                                        NEW 28 It's Gonna Be Alright - Gerry and The Pacemakers 28= 25 29 28 1655
                                        29 29 You Never Can Tell - Chuck Berry 28= 29 30 23 1280
                                        NEW 30 Oh Pretty Woman - Roy Orbison 28 26 1100
                                        A Hard Day's Night (LP) - The Beatles 26 21 1000
                                        On The Beach - Cliff Richard 28 27 1090
                                        I Found Out The Hard Way - The Four Pennies 27 1000
                                        Bread And Butter - The Newbeats 27 800
                                        I Just Don't Know What To Do With Myself - Dusty Springfield 26 425
                                        From A Window - Billy J Kramer and The Dakotas 30 250
                                        The Ultimate Averaged Chart. The Definitive Chart Reflecting The Fifties and Sixties.

                                        Comment


                                        • ^
                                          Very close at the top, just 65 points between the top 2 tracks. The weighting based on individual newspaper charts and the amount of chart return shops per paper proves its worth by separating out the two records which is better than the BBC POTP joint number 1 position.

                                          Comment


                                          • But there were 9 other records in the BBC Top 20 which tied on scores and they untied - at positions 5/6, 9/10, 13/14 and 18/19/20. Over several weeks now the vast majority of their ties in the Top 20 have been broken, and I cannot determine a rule for when they don't tiebreak. However in this case I suppose they left number one as a tie because of the sensibility of the top position and the exact symmetry of the scores for the two contenders.

                                            Comment


                                            • Splodj, the BBC tie-breaker rules can be found in the BBC chart file as put together by Trevor Ager. Do you need a copy?

                                              Comment


                                              • Splodj
                                                Splodj commented
                                                Editing a comment
                                                Yes please. Where do I find it?

                                                As Brian says, I doubt if the rules are applied consistently. 'Direction of travel' is the usual tiebreaking criteria, but not always - although of course the exceptions may be mistakes.

                                            • Yeah guys, the music paper store returns make a big difference in separating out the multiple ties accurately and fairly, dependant on sample size. As Robin says Splodj the BBC had tie breaker rules but unfortunately they didn't always apply then consistently and changed the rule throughout the years .

                                              Here is the next chart guys.
                                              The Ultimate Averaged Chart. The Definitive Chart Reflecting The Fifties and Sixties.

                                              Comment

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