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The Ultimate Averaged Chart - The BBC Chart Re-Imagined

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  • brian05
    replied
    NEW 21 Band Of Gold - Don Cherry

    Is that the same song that Freda Payne released in September 1970?


    23 My Boy Flat Top - Frankie Vaughan

    Maybe that's where John Lennon got the inspiration for the beginning of Come Together.

    Here come old flat top
    He come grooving up slowly

    Leave a comment:


  • MrTibbs
    replied
    'Memories Are Made Of This', not just for Dean Martin's very high new entry, but because Don Cherry's 'Band Of Gold' also entering means a lot to me too. An uncle of mine sang this at any family parties so I became familiar with the song and I absolutely love Don Cherry's version. What a voice and What a song

    Leave a comment:


  • MrTibbs
    replied
    Greetings Pop Pickers

    Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending February 11th 1956

    Here are all '' the uppers, the downers, the just hanging 'arounders '

    The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending February 11th 1956 NME RM Total
    Last This The Sound Survey Stores 60 52 Points
    Week Week The Top 23 Singles Chart 20 Scored
    1 1 Sixteen Tons - Tennessee Ernie Ford 1 1 2240
    3 2 (Love Is) The Tender Trap - Frank Sinatra 2 2 2128
    2 3 Ballad Of Davy Crockett - Bill Hayes 3 4 1964
    NEW 4 Memories Are Made Of This - Dean Martin 4 3 1956
    15 5 Zambesi - Lou Busch 7 5 1672
    4 6 Love And Marriage - Frank Sinatra 5 10 1532
    6 7 Rock A Beatin' Boogie - Bill Haley and His Comets 6 9 1524
    7 8 Rock Island Line - Lonnie Donegan 9 6 1500
    14 9 Only You - The Hilltoppers 8 8 1456
    5 10 Ballad Of Davy Crockett - Tennessee Ernie Ford 10 6 1440
    10 11 Robin Hood - Gary Miller 11 13 1016
    8 12 Love Is A Many Splendoured Thing - The Four Aces 13 14 844
    19 13 It's Almost Tomorrow - The Dream Weavers 16 11 820
    NEW 14 Young And Foolish - Ronnie Hilton 17 12 708
    11 15 Pickin' A Chicken - Eve Boswell 15 16 620
    12 16 Dreams Can Tell A Lie - Nat King Cole 12 20 592
    18 17 Robin Hood - Dick James 14 420
    23 18 With Your Love - Malcolm Vaughan 18 17 388
    9 19 When You Lose The One You Love - David Whitfield and Mantovani 15 312
    16 20 Sixteen Tons - Frankie Laine 18 156
    NEW 21 Band Of Gold - Don Cherry 19 120
    NEW 22 Young And Foolish - Edmund Hockridge 19 104
    22 23 My Boy Flat Top - Frankie Vaughan 20 60
    13 Rock Around The Clock - Bill Haley and His Comets
    17 The Shifting Whispering Sands - Eamonn Andrews
    20 Ain't That A Shame - Fats Domino
    21 Suddenly There's A Valley - Jo Stafford

    Leave a comment:


  • MrTibbs
    replied
    Greetings Pop Pickers

    Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending February 4th 1956

    Here are all '' the uppers, the downers, the just hanging 'arounders '

    The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending February 4th 1956 NME RM Total
    Last This The Sound Survey Stores 60 52 Points
    Week Week The Top 23 Singles Chart 20 Scored
    1 1 Sixteen Tons - Tennessee Ernie Ford 1 1 2240
    2 2 Ballad Of Davy Crockett - Bill Hayes 2 2 2128
    6 3 (Love Is) The Tender Trap - Frank Sinatra 3 3 2016
    4 4 Love And Marriage - Frank Sinatra 4 4 1904
    3 5 Ballad Of Davy Crockett - Tennessee Ernie Ford 5 5 1792
    7 6 Rock A Beatin' Boogie - Bill Haley and His Comets 6 6 1680
    9 7 Rock Island Line - Lonnie Donegan 8 7 1508
    5 8 Love Is A Many Splendoured Thing - The Four Aces 7 9 1464
    10 9 When You Lose The One You Love - David Whitfield and Mantovani 12 8 1216
    12 10 Robin Hood - Gary Miller 10 11 1180
    11 11 Pickin' A Chicken - Eve Boswell 9 14 1084
    18 12 Dreams Can Tell A Lie - Nat King Cole 11 12 1068
    8 13 Rock Around The Clock - Bill Haley and His Comets 14 10 992
    13 14 Only You - The Hilltoppers 15 15 672
    17 15 Zambesi - Lou Busch 17 13 656
    14 16 Sixteen Tons - Frankie Laine 13 19 584
    22 17 The Shifting Whispering Sands - Eamonn Andrews 18 17 388
    20 18 Robin Hood - Dick James 16 300
    NEW 19 It's Almost Tomorrow - The Dream Weavers 16 260
    NEW 20 Ain't That A Shame - Fats Domino 18 156
    RE 21 Suddenly There's A Valley - Jo Stafford 19 120
    NEW 22 My Boy Flat Top - Frankie Vaughan 20 60
    23 23 With Your Love - Malcolm Vaughan 20 52
    15 Meet Me On The Corner - Max Bygraves
    16 The Shifting Whispering Sands - Billy Vaughan
    21 Suddenly There's A Valley - Petula Clark
    19 Yellow Rose Of Texas - Stan Freberg

    Leave a comment:


  • Graham76man
    replied
    Originally posted by kingofskiffle View Post
    Some of the issues in the early days of TV was a reliably storage/future transmission medium. Plus, the BBC charter (I may be mistaken) was only supposed to have limited repeat programming as it was believed people would not stomach paying the licence fee to see the same stuff again. But that does go back to the old Music Hall/Theatre approach. Silent movies were junked on mass when Sound came along; Black and White TV was junked on mass when Colour came along ('People won't pay for watching a Black and White programme on a Colour TV Licence') until they found home video and the re-sale market....

    Still a shame nevertheless. More of the ITV stations (Putting on the Donegan as an example) where saved due to having to be made on film for transfer around different ITV stations.
    Most people didn't get colour TV till much later in the UK. It wasn't junked on mass! There was also a shortage of TV sets in the 1970's due to a production problem. The licence fee was much higher for a colour set too. Some people also said colour sets gave you eye strain. The first colour set I saw was at a wedding, which was held in a hotel in Sheffield. All the wedding people were watching the TV, even though it was mostly "green".
    They were very expensive, most people rented TV sets as the broke down often, especially the colour ones. They were massive too, an 18 inch screen set had a huge back on it! Many TV engineers had back problems moving them around. Even the cost of rentals of colour were expensive. We couldn't afford one till 1976!
    Nearly all the TV stations used Sony TV's. They were the most expensive of the lot!

    Leave a comment:


  • MrTibbs
    replied
    Grrrrrr ! Im on my way home from hols. Been enjoying 30 degrees all week and Im told its cold and wet back in Scotland. There's a surprise !!! Not.

    So normal service resumes tomorrow guys with the continuation of the UAC for 1956.

    All together now 'It's Raining It's Pouring' .....

    Leave a comment:


  • kingofskiffle
    replied
    Some of the issues in the early days of TV was a reliably storage/future transmission medium. Plus, the BBC charter (I may be mistaken) was only supposed to have limited repeat programming as it was believed people would not stomach paying the licence fee to see the same stuff again. But that does go back to the old Music Hall/Theatre approach. Silent movies were junked on mass when Sound came along; Black and White TV was junked on mass when Colour came along ('People won't pay for watching a Black and White programme on a Colour TV Licence') until they found home video and the re-sale market....

    Still a shame nevertheless. More of the ITV stations (Putting on the Donegan as an example) where saved due to having to be made on film for transfer around different ITV stations.

    Leave a comment:


  • Gambo
    replied
    It is so sad, but true, that nobody had foresight to see any longer-term value in certain programmes that really were trailblazers and significant indicators of the culture of the period. Anything 'youth' or 'pop'-orientated, along with various lightweight comedy programmes, were doubtless dismissed even as they were being made by the stuffy old farts of the Beeb still exerting senior influence at that time.

    Basically, your last hopes are some obscure person's yet-to-be-unearthed private archive that's somehow lain untouched for 50+ years, or possibly good old Bob Monkhouse's private video collection! Though I suspect by now all the obvious gems from that incredibly thorough archive will've been clocked and shown, or at least incorporated into official archives for posterity.

    Leave a comment:


  • Graham76man
    replied
    Originally posted by MrTibbs View Post

    I honestly believe the BBC saw their chart as a fun chart and not to be taken too seriously. Each week was here today and gone tomorrow and never intended to be retrospectively examined.
    That's very true indeed. And since the BBC has no interest at all in these charts I think it proves your point.
    The same attitude was adopted to the performances of Top of The Pops, with nearly all the 60's shows wiped. The reason being nobody would be interested in them in years to come, especially Black and White. Of course that was before the presenter scandals. But even if they had kept the shows, the performances could have be extracted from them. In the end cost cutting wiped out loads of performances that are simply not available today.

    Leave a comment:


  • Splodj
    replied
    I think all the charts were compiled on an ephemeral basis. They were expected to recover their costs in the week of publication, and I doubt much consideration was given to how they would be viewed in the future.

    The charts that stand up most robustly to retrospective examination, RM and then MM, are now the least visible.

    Leave a comment:


  • MrTibbs
    replied
    Originally posted by RokinRobinOfLocksley View Post
    I'd say the BBC chart, even with its foibles, was still better (less imperfect) than RR. And the BBC chart is probably the closest of all of them to the Brian Ultimate Chart...
    Yeah the formula used to compile the BBC chart forms the first stage of The Ultimate Chart which corrects all the errors etc found in the original BBC chart.

    The principle behind the BBC chart was sound, no doubt about it, as the averaging process ironed out outliers and found the centre ground. It was the compilation that was haphazard. I honestly believe the BBC saw their chart as a fun chart and not to be taken too seriously. Each week was here today and gone tomorrow and never intended to be retrospectively examined.

    Leave a comment:


  • RokinRobinOfLocksley
    replied
    I'd say the BBC chart, even with its foibles, was still better (less imperfect) than RR. And the BBC chart is probably the closest of all of them to the Brian Ultimate Chart...

    Leave a comment:


  • Splodj
    replied
    Originally posted by MrTibbs View Post
    the 'odd one out ' rule was only brought in at that time to keep up with the music papers and favour The Beatles
    Also enabled 'House of the rising sun' and 'The last time' to reach number one in their second week, when RR had each languishing at number 6.

    Leave a comment:


  • MrTibbs
    replied
    But, in many respects the BBC's own chart ironically was just as weak as the RR.Chart. It was inconsistent, it was error ridden, and the 'odd one out ' rule was only brought in at that time to keep up with the music papers and favour The Beatles and only applied to #1 singles. Why not also apply this principle to #2 etc also if it was so important a rule to have in place. It was just another 'make it up as you go along' chart as all BBC charts were with ever changing rules.

    Leave a comment:


  • Splodj
    replied
    Returning to OCCs comment on 'I want to hold your hand', the strength of feeling about this at the time is reflected in what happened with the BBC chart. The BBC felt so stung by RR preventing them from having it come in at number one in their composite chart that they introduced the 'odd one out' rule to ensure that RR would not embarrass them in this way again.

    Leave a comment:


  • Robbie
    replied
    Originally posted by Splodj View Post
    'Radiomonitor' provide airplay charts which can be localised.
    They can but many stations are no longer local. Most stations outside of breakfast and drive are quasi-national stations with just local advertising. The programme is usually broadcast from London or Manchester. I miss the days of local ILR when each station had its own character and which really did serve the local community.

    Leave a comment:


  • Splodj
    replied
    'Radiomonitor' provide airplay charts which can be localised.

    Leave a comment:


  • Graham76man
    replied
    I think most of the ILR stations broadcasted a top 40 at some point. Some were completely made up like Capitol Radio's chart. Other used local shops and an airplay element. But most used just a sales chart from local shops. My own Radio Hallam started with a top 40. As Robbie says between 9 and 12 Saturday. But in 1977 they repeated the chart on Sunday between 2pm and 5pm. The reason for this was the taping people. They would play three tracks in a row, without the DJ talking till the end of the last track. Later in the 1980's the chart was extended to a top 50. Running 2pm till 6pm.
    I remember Alan Jones in Record Mirror commenting on the Yorkshire stations charts all having in the top 40 and some high up of the Kelly Marie future number one. When it wasn't in the top 75 at all.
    Both Hallam and Pennine had Barnsley Bill in the top 40. Pennine had Lee Majors - The Unknown Stuntman in the chart. The TV series was more popular in Yorkshire! Strangely enough I remember nearly all the Radio One DJ's that made a record all failed to chart!
    Of course downloads killed off any remaining local charts.

    Leave a comment:


  • Robbie
    replied
    Originally posted by Splodj View Post
    There has been a lot of controversy within the radio industry about what is the best time for a chart show. Sunday teatime used to be the favourite because of the POTP tradition and because it was naturally a low audience time but people were available to listen if there was something special - which the chart was. So audience figures got up to match the normal weekly peak of 10-12 Sunday morning. When the Top 40 with Bruno Brookes had 8 million listeners that was claimed to be the highest radio audience in Europe, although it was a bit misleading because many people just tuned in for the final bit.

    For many years Capital Radio was convinced that the best time was Saturday morning, when you could be the first to capture listeners for the weekend.
    Saturday morning used to be the favourite time for nearly all the ILR stations. My local ILR (Metro Radio in Newcastle) had its chart show from something like 9am to midday on a Saturday. When I lived in London and was going back to the north east to visit family and friends I would often get the Saturday morning train from Kings Cross and it was good to hear the various countdowns that I could pick up along the East Coast Main Line.Of course I never got to hear all of any one particular local countdown but it was interesting to see how certain records sold well in one area but failed to match the same position on a national level.

    The Network Chart was compiled on a Friday simply so that Capital and the other ILR stations had a chart to broadcast on a Saturday morning. Metro Radio started its top 40 countdown in, I think, May 1976. I'm not sure who the compiler was. It may have been compiled by the station in the early days but at some point I think it was compiled by Radio & Record News (the charts were posted here two or three years ago, the national chart with the positions of where the records were in each region). I do remember in the early days the north east chart being slightly behind the BMRB chart except when it came to rock records.

    The OCC chart report still lists sales for each ITV region though as these are only physical sales they are totally irrelevant for singles. There are so few local radio stations now anyway that even if it were still possible to compile a local chart there would be very few stations to actually broadcast it. The regional number 1s on the singles chart don't reveal anything of interest any longer as so few chart singles get a physical release. The physical singles sales chart tends to be dominated by records that fail to even make the unpublished top 200 (the one that has no ACR rules or 3 tracks per artist limit) let alone the official top 100 chart with its ACR rules and 3 tracks per artist limit. There are only 5 records in the official Top 100 that are available to physically purchase. In the unpublished top 200 there are only 9 singles that are available to physically purchase.

    Leave a comment:


  • Splodj
    replied
    There has been a lot of controversy within the radio industry about what is the best time for a chart show. Sunday teatime used to be the favourite because of the POTP tradition and because it was naturally a low audience time but people were available to listen if there was something special - which the chart was. So audience figures got up to match the normal weekly peak of 10-12 Sunday morning. When the Top 40 with Bruno Brookes had 8 million listeners that was claimed to be the highest radio audience in Europe, although it was a bit misleading because many people just tuned in for the final bit.

    For many years Capital Radio was convinced that the best time was Saturday morning, when you could be the first to capture listeners for the weekend.

    Leave a comment:


  • Robbie
    replied
    Originally posted by Graham76man View Post
    They only shifted it so that acts could go straight into number one. Back in the days when an act would have a huge following that would buy the record largely in the first week of release. But the concept was obsolete within two years. They had this fear that acts would ignore the new Friday day just to get the number one. But they do that anyway!
    And I don't believe they get anyway near the audience for the Friday chart show as they would do on a Sunday.
    I think the Friday chart show gets about 2 to 3 million listeners which is probably more than the Sunday chart show was getting. I know the Sunday chart show audience fell below 2 minllion at one stage. The fact that the audience isn't now split between two or three rival chart shows helps too.

    Leave a comment:


  • Graham76man
    replied
    They only shifted it so that acts could go straight into number one. Back in the days when an act would have a huge following that would buy the record largely in the first week of release. But the concept was obsolete within two years. They had this fear that acts would ignore the new Friday day just to get the number one. But they do that anyway!
    And I don't believe they get anyway near the audience for the Friday chart show as they would do on a Sunday.

    Leave a comment:


  • MrTibbs
    replied
    Although I'm down by the pool right now enjoying the sun and 30 degree temperatures with frequent refreshments naturally, I'm keeping up with everything going on here.

    I'm with Brian's comment above though, these whispers from 'compilers' about sales from shops can't be substantiated. If evidence is there let us all see it, be transparent, otherwise the information is entirely subjective and unsubstantiated.

    Leave a comment:


  • Robbie
    replied
    Originally posted by Splodj View Post
    There was an embarrassing period for Radio 1 in the 80s when its Sunday chart show had a survey week well behind Independent Radio's Sunday chart show broadcast at the same time but using a survey week end of the previous day. I seem to recall a charity record (Band Aid?) that made number one on 2 days sales in the latter but was nowhere at all in the former.
    That was down to the fact that until October 1987 the new chart was compiled on a Tuesday* and was broadcast for the first time by Radio 1 at 12.45pm (and for when Monday was a Bank Holiday it was pushed back to the Wednesday). The Sunday chart countdown on Radio 1 was a recap of that chart.

    * From May 1986 the chart was actually compiled on a Sunday but the industry were reluctant to have a different chart reveal date. Independent Radio had the Network Chart which was broadcast on a Sunday with a chart week that I think ran Monday to Thursday. The chart was compiled on a Friday and for part of 1986 was first unveiled on the then Channel 4 TV programme The Chart Show which was on late afternoon on the Friday.

    As listening figures fell due to many teenagers switching to the Network Chart Show, Radio 1 put pressure on the industry to agree to the chart reveal day being switched to a Sunday. Once the chart panel had expanded in mid 1987 there was no need for Gallup to spend Mondays doing security checks on the new entries and fast climbers as the panel was now large enough to do these checks as part of the chart compilation process rather than phoning record shops not on the chart panel.

    Strangely, the increased turnover rate of the charts started at roughly the time the chart switched from a Tuesday to a Sunday. Records began to enter in higher and higher positions and records also started to have a much shorter chart life. Coincidence? Maybe but a friend of mine who owned a record shop for most of the 80s said that reps became more aggressive in their marketing of records around the time the chart reveal day changed and it was like they were all out aiming for a top 40 position first week out rather than being content with a record entering a lowly top 75 position and climbing up through the charts. Before that, although a record might be released near the start of the week it was often the case that new stock didn't arrive until later in the week. Suddenly new stock was arriving earlier in the week which meant records could have more impact sales wise in the first week of being on sale and therefore they started to enter much higher up the chart.

    I still can't get used to the new OCC chart being on a Friday now. It was strange when the chart reveal day was brought forward by a couple of days in october 1987 but everyone quickly accepted it. Moving it to a Friday still sits uneasiliy with many chart fans. Friday to Thursday just doesn't feel like a natural chart sales week.

    Leave a comment:


  • kingofskiffle
    commented on 's reply
    I like stories like that
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