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The Ultimate Averaged Chart - The BBC Chart Re-Imagined

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  • Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending May 20th 1961

    The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending May 20th 1961 NME RM MM DISC RR Total
    Last This The Sound Survey Stores 80 60 110 50 30 Points
    Week Week The Top 30 Singles Chart BBC TOP 30 Scored
    1 1 Blue Moon - The Marcels 1 2 1 1 1 3 9760
    2 2 You're Driving Me Crazy - The Temperance Seven 2 3 2 2 2 2 9490
    9 3 Runaway - Del Shannon 3 1 3 3 4 8 9200
    4 4 On The Rebound - Floyd Cramer 4 5 5 4 3 1 8910
    6 5 More Than I Can Say - Bobby Vee 6= 4 6 7 7 4 8310
    12 6 The Frightened City - The Shadows 6= 6 4 6 6 9 8280
    3 7 Don't Treat Me Like A Child - Helen Shapiro 5 7 8 5 5 5 8240
    5 8 Wooden Heart - Elvis Presley 8 8 7 8 8 6 7710
    14 9 Easy Going Me - Adam Faith 9 12 9 11 10 12 6660
    17 10 What'd I Say - Jerry Lee Lewis 11 10 10 12 15 14 6340
    7 11 Theme From Dixie - Duane Eddy 10 11 16 13 9 7 6300
    8 12 A Hundred Pounds Of Clay - Craig Douglas 12 16 13 10 11 10 6220
    10 13 Gee Whiz It's You - Cliff Richard 13 19 11 9 13 11 6080
    28 14 You'll Never Know - Shirley Bassey 14 9 14 15 18 20 5520
    11 15 Warpaint - The Brook Brothers 15 15 18 14 14 13 5320
    13 16 African Waltz - Johnny Dankworth 16 14 15 18 12 16 5150
    24 17 But I Do - Clarence 'Frogman' Henry 17 13 12 17 19 19 5080
    18 18 Little Boy Sad - Johnny Burnette 18 16 19 16 20 15 4600
    21 19 Have A Drink On Me - Lonnie Donegan 19 16 17 16 18 3180
    19 20 Exodus - Ferrante and Teicher 20 20 17 2510
    23 21 How Wonderful To Know - Pearl Carr and Teddy Johnson 22 19 24 2250
    22 22 I Still Love You All - Kenny Ball 20 20 17 26 1730
    16 23 Lazy River - Bobby Darin 24 20 22 1490
    NEW 24 Little Devil - Neil Sedaka 22 720
    30 25 Words - The Allisons 25 480
    15 26 Are You Sure - The Allisons 29 21 460
    RE 27 My Blue Heaven - Frank Sinatra 26 400
    NEW 28 Halfway To Paradise - Billy Fury 27 320
    NEW 29 Spurs Song - The Totnamites 28 240
    20 30 Where The Boys Are - Connie Francis 23 240
    F.B.I. - The Shadows 25 180
    And The Heavens Cried - Anthony Newley 27 120
    (I Wanna) Love My Life Away - Gene Pitney 28 90
    I've Told Every Little Star - Linda Scott 30 80
    Mother-In-Law - Ernie K-Doe 29 60
    Baby Sittin' Boogie - Buzz Clifford 30 30
    The Ultimate Averaged Chart. The Definitive Chart Reflecting The Sixties.

    Comment


    • Del Shannon is heading for #1 but he will soon have very strong competition !
      The Ultimate Averaged Chart. The Definitive Chart Reflecting The Sixties.

      Comment


      • Tim Rice said 'Runaway' was his all-time favourite record. This was in the 70s (when he was compiling Guinness) so don't know if it is still.

        Comment


        • Frank Sinatra is a re-entry with My Blue Heaven on the 20th May Chart. It was at 30 on the 6th May.
          Last edited by braindeadpj; Wed February 3, 2021, 17:12.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by braindeadpj View Post
            Frank Sinatra is a re-entry with My Blue Heaven on the 20th May Chart. It was at 30 on the 6th May.
            Amended
            The Ultimate Averaged Chart. The Definitive Chart Reflecting The Sixties.

            Comment


            • Something unusual happened in that week (20 May) in the Real Chart. Elvis went flying in at Number One a week before the other charts. Two things might explain that. One paid upfront advanced orders. Though NOT people saying can you save me a copy without putting the money down. Or shops selling the USA copies, which had been issued in March over there. 45 Cat had no specific date on the record except May. But I found a Disc Paper and it confirmed that the record came out on the 19 May so I have updated 45 Cat to show this date.
              The Disc article does mention that advanced orders of the Elvis single were expected to be greater than the previous by him.
              As always with the Compilers of the Real Chart they will not tell me if they are advanced orders or if any USA records were purchased. It could be a combination of both. But since none of the charts of that time have it the charts that week. None were using advanced orders from the retailers. As the week ending charts for the 27 May cover the 19 May date, even if only for two days. But as we know already you can shift a lot of records in two days.

              PS: I was going to post this early today, but UKMIX broke down again.
              Education for anyone aged 12 to 16 has made a mess of the world!

              Comment


              • I think it extremely likely that NME were using advance orders then, as they had it come in at No. 1 and RR at 27. Presley records that were long anticipated like this built up advance orders over weeks, but the chart compilers clearly had a policy of not registering them until the record had been released. This strikes me as a sensible policy.

                As for imports, as 'Gee Whiz' had charted on imports alone I see no reason why 'Surrender' would not have charted in the same way if imports of it had sold in sufficient numbers.

                Comment


                • Graham76man
                  Graham76man commented
                  Editing a comment
                  There is no way that NME knew what was advanced and what was selling if it had been issued that week. All they got back from each shop was a list of records. The shop itself might have made up the entire list. Only Record Mirror ever published any shop lists of sellers, the rest didn't and to my knowledge nobody has seen one list from any of the other chart compilers. As for NME removing records there's no evidence for that either, as they didn't remove or combine two sided discs or LP's from the lists. This proves that some shops were putting down one side of a disc in the return and the others putting the other. Where such "other side" discs are lower that would show the vast majority of sellers put the higher charting side most in the chart they sent back. Let's face they NME and the rest were simply doing what Brian and the BBC did, getting top ten charts and adding them all up.

              • Originally posted by Splodj View Post
                Tim Rice said 'Runaway' was his all-time favourite record. This was in the 70s (when he was compiling Guinness) so don't know if it is still.
                He took it to his desert island in '76 but it lost out to Tammy Wynette !


                https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p009n0z8

                Comment


                • Was 'Gee Whiz It's You' an import in the true sense of the word? I'm sure I've read that the single was pressed in the UK and was meant for export to continental Europe but enough copies were diverted to UK shops to make it an unofficial UK release.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Robbie View Post
                    Was 'Gee Whiz It's You' an import in the true sense of the word? I'm sure I've read that the single was pressed in the UK and was meant for export to continental Europe but enough copies were diverted to UK shops to make it an unofficial UK release.
                    Guinness note it as an "export single".

                    Comment


                    • I've mentioned how the RM singles reviewer was sent a copy at the end of April, weeks after it charted. There is a lot of info on the web about how this was an import - Wiki etc.

                      It is even identified as an import when it entered at 33 here ...

                      https://www.ukmix.org/forum/chart-di...068#post467068

                      Comment


                      • Maybe it's just a question of semantics….


                        This wiki article maintains it was pressed as an export but charted as an import....


                        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Me_and_My_Shadows

                        Comment


                        • Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending May 27th 1961


                          The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending May 27th 1961 NME RM MM DISC RR Total
                          Last This The Sound Survey Stores 80 60 110 50 30 Points
                          Week Week The Top 30 Singles Chart BBC TOP 30 Scored
                          3 1 Runaway - Del Shannon* 1 2 1 1 2 5 9650
                          1 2 Blue Moon - The Marcels 5 7 3 2 5 2 8960
                          6 3 The Frightened City - The Shadows 3 4 4 5 3 4 8850
                          NEW 4 Surrender - Elvis Presley 2 1 1 4 1 27 8790
                          4 5 On The Rebound - Floyd Cramer 4 3 5 6 4 3 8740
                          2 6 You're Driving Me Crazy - The Temperance Seven 6 8 8 3 7 1 8400
                          5 7 More Than I Can Say - Bobby Vee 7 5 6 8 6 6 8110
                          7 8 Don't Treat Me Like A Child - Helen Shapiro 8 10 7 7 8 11 7510
                          14 9 You'll Never Know - Shirley Bassey 9 6 9 11 11 14 7030
                          10 10 What'd I Say - Jerry Lee Lewis 10 11 11 9 9 16 6770
                          8 11 Wooden Heart - Elvis Presley 14 17 12 10 15 7 6090
                          17 12 But I Do - Clarence 'Frogman' Henry 12 9 10 17 12 19 5870
                          9 13 Easy Going Me - Adam Faith 11 12 18 12 13 12 5860
                          11 14 Theme From Dixie - Duane Eddy 13 15 15 14 10 8 5850
                          12 15 A Hundred Pounds Of Clay - Craig Douglas 16= 16 16 15 18 10 5140
                          24 16 Little Devil - Neil Sedaka 16= 14 13 16 19 30 4720
                          13 17 Gee Whiz It's You - Cliff Richard 15 20 13 14 13 4250
                          15 18 Warpaint - The Brook Brothers 19 19 18 16 9 3800
                          19 19 Have A Drink On Me - Lonnie Donegan 18 13 14 17 17 3580
                          16 20 African Waltz - Johnny Dankworth 21 20 20 15 2490
                          18 21 Little Boy Sad - Johnny Burnette 24 17 20 1730
                          21 22 How Wonderful To Know - Pearl Carr and Teddy Johnson 30 19 23 1640
                          NEW 23 Running Scared - Roy Orbison 20 1210
                          20 24 Exodus - Ferrante and Teicher 22 18 1110
                          28 25 Halfway To Paradise - Billy Fury 20 18 1040
                          NEW 26 Hello Mary Lou - Travellin' Man - Ricky Nelson 27 19 1040
                          22 27 I Still Love You All - Kenny Ball 23 24 850
                          27 28 My Blue Heaven - Frank Sinatra 25 480
                          NEW 29 I've Told Every Little Star - Linda Scott 26 400
                          26 30 Are You Sure - The Allisons 21 300
                          * 3 Point Rule Applied
                          F.B.I. - The Shadows 22 270
                          Why Not Now - Matt Monro 28 240
                          And The Heavens - Cried - Anthony Newley 25 180
                          Spurs Song - The Totnamites 29 160
                          Where The Boys Are - Connie Francis 26 150
                          Lazy River - Bobby Darin 28 90
                          A Scottish Soldier - Andy Stewart 29 60
                          The Ultimate Averaged Chart. The Definitive Chart Reflecting The Sixties.

                          Comment


                          • Runaway takes #1 this week this week due to holding 2 out of 3 of the 3 point rule. It has most points and best profile.
                            The Ultimate Averaged Chart. The Definitive Chart Reflecting The Sixties.

                            Comment


                            • Graham76man
                              Graham76man commented
                              Editing a comment
                              That's a real pity as clearly your 110 rule has altered the chart, even greater than the BBC chart. I did warn you when you first started these charts that charts with much higher figures they would distort the chart. The MM clearly f***** up that week!

                          • I dont agree Graham. The figures are spot on. Thats what the charts say. Thats what the stores say. Thats what the calculations say. I wont alter facts to present what some would like to see. Thats the correct outcome. If your real chart says different then show us the actual documented evidence to prove it and not just the outcome opinion. My evidence is transparent and all there for everyone to see.
                            The Ultimate Averaged Chart. The Definitive Chart Reflecting The Sixties.

                            Comment


                            • Graham76man
                              Graham76man commented
                              Editing a comment
                              You can't possibly know if the Melody Maker was correct that week. Instead of 110 shops being calculated they could have got have got 50 returns back that week, even if they did use all the shops every week, which I think we can assume they didn't (unless they wanted to tell the records companies where to buy the records). The number of stores used could vary wide. Yes you're charts are as accurate as you can make them. But to put a record four places lower in the top ten then the BBC's chart, when the record in question had massive pre-orders the week before it was released, shows how the point based charts have flaws in them.

                          • Also the BBC did not include RM or RR in their chart so it is only a partial overview.
                            The Ultimate Averaged Chart. The Definitive Chart Reflecting The Sixties.

                            Comment


                            • Graham76man
                              Graham76man commented
                              Editing a comment
                              Didn't you once point out that Record Retailer didn't make a scrap of difference to your calculations?

                          • If the Beeb gave 'Runaway' it's moment in the sun then most would have regarded it as a number one at the time. Oi

                            he first ompo

                            Comment


                            • It is quite a big step to override and omit a number one that might well have been the real biggest seller that week. Personally I do not doubt the MM position, but would like to know why RR was even more astray than usual.

                              Comment


                              • Graham76man
                                Graham76man commented
                                Editing a comment
                                A Bank Holiday on the 22 May probably messed up it's returns.

                            • The first import I bought was the Stones; the Italian version of As Tears Go By. They were in a box on the counter. At least the dealer said he had imported them. Now I am not so sure!

                              Comment


                              • I must admit to preferring Marianne Fairhfull's version. Loved it then. Love it now.
                                The Ultimate Averaged Chart. The Definitive Chart Reflecting The Sixties.

                                Comment


                                • I'd forgotten that 'Spurs Song' by 'The Totnamites' made the NME chart.

                                  Was it the first ever football hit? I can't think of an earlier one...

                                  Comment


                                  • NME and DISC both included pre-orders, Perhaps this is what makes the difference for MM?
                                    Or again, as has already been pointed it, its the difference between ranking sales and points, which most of the time are relatively similar, but when a big event such as an Elvis single comes along, the points may not accurately reflect the sales. But however you look at it the Ultimate Chart, based on calculations and carefully laid out and clear criteria, has Del Shannon at no.1 and its supported by the available (flawed?) evidence.

                                    It's also interesting that the other positions are quite variable too between the charts this week. Much more than we normally see I feel.
                                    Last edited by braindeadpj; Thu February 4, 2021, 17:54.

                                    Comment


                                    • Graham76man
                                      Graham76man commented
                                      Editing a comment
                                      You have no evidence for either using pre-orders. Elvis was available to buy on the 19 May. In two days it could have sold over 100,000 copies for all we know. Had the Elvis single been in the Week Ending 20 May chart that would have been evidence that shops that supplied the charts were using advanced orders.
                                      And the variations could be down to bank holiday for 22 May that year.

                                  • Originally posted by Metalweb View Post
                                    I'd forgotten that 'Spurs Song' by 'The Totnamites' made the NME chart.

                                    Was it the first ever football hit? I can't think of an earlier one...
                                    I was thinking the same thing when I saw it... Is it the 1st football song to chart? Also did Spurs win (presumably the FA cup or was it for the League)?

                                    Comment


                                    • Given we will never have sales info for that period points are the best we have brain. I think your assumption about the advanced orders is a correct one. Can I ask though what u mean by 'flawed' evidence im not sure what u mean by that. Invariably difficult decisions have to be made sometimes and this is one of them. To be fair and transparent a system needs to be in place and consistently applied. I think my outcome is correct as it does also agree with the BBC average.
                                      The Ultimate Averaged Chart. The Definitive Chart Reflecting The Sixties.

                                      Comment


                                      • Yeah the Spurs song is the first football song to chart guys.
                                        The Ultimate Averaged Chart. The Definitive Chart Reflecting The Sixties.

                                        Comment

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