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The Ultimate Averaged Chart - The BBC Chart Re-Imagined

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  • The famous death discs banned by the BBC and John Leyton. The driving force of the sales was Brian Epstein shops in Liverpool NEMS. He ordered stacks of that record knowing it would be a hit. The record company picked up on this and pushed it even further.
    Education for anyone aged 12 to 16 has made a mess of the world!

    Comment


    • It wasn't banned by the BBC. You can hear it being played as number 1 on this POTP which, incidentally, was the show in which David Jacobs handed over to Alan Freeman.

      https://www.mixcloud.com/peteseaton/...jacobs-160961/

      Comment


      • It was a cracking record , I actually remember the Helen Shapiro one well too, my mum often sang it going about the housework.
        The Ultimate Averaged Chart. The Definitive Chart Reflecting The Sixties.

        Comment


        • The first version of 'Johnny Remember Me' I heard was by Showaddywaddy - I assumed it was their song at first!

          I don't see on what grounds the song could be banned - the lyrics don't state (in quite so many words!) that the girl in the song is dead.

          The singer says he "lost" her, which could simply mean she ran off...





          Comment


          • It was banned by the BBC as it was featured on a BBC Four documentary repeated only last week about records and tunes banned by the BBC. The reason wasn't the words as such, but the belief by the committee that "policed" the output of the BBC, that it would be too negative and could increase the suicide rate in the young. In other words the BBC were acting as the moral guardians. The Church also wrote to the BBC about these death records.
            There are very few records that were completely banned by the BBC, most were played at some time or another. Even the Sex Pistols God Save The Queen, was played on the BBC late at night by John Peel in 1977.
            The BBC Four series starts with George Formby songs like the "disgusting" Little Stick of Blackpool Rock! And ends with Ding Dong The Witch is Dead for Mrs T death!
            Education for anyone aged 12 to 16 has made a mess of the world!

            Comment


            • The BBC even gave it a boost by featuring it on Juke Box Jury ...

              26th July 1961.
              “Dear Mr.Stigwood,
              Confirming my telephone conversation with your Secretary this afternoon, we should definitely like John Leyton to sit in ‘the hot seat’ for Juke Box Jury this Saturday 29th July.
              We should be grateful if you would arrange for him to be at The Television Centre, Shepherds Bush Green, at 6.40p.m. and we’d like him to report to the front of the Theatre, as he would be likely to run into Panelists if he came to the Stage Door.
              With many thanks.
              Margaret Hepworth
              (Secretary to Bill Cotton Jnr)

              Comment


              • Graham76man
                Graham76man commented
                Editing a comment
                The record was banned, the BBC was slow however to react sometimes to the banning calls sometimes. And a record that was played at one time wasn't played at a later date. I suspect it's the same with Jonathan King or Gary Glitter records these days on the radio.

            • Originally posted by Graham76man View Post
              It was banned by the BBC as it was featured on a BBC Four documentary repeated only last week about records and tunes banned by the BBC. The reason wasn't the words as such, but the belief by the committee that "policed" the output of the BBC, that it would be too negative and could increase the suicide rate in the young. In other words the BBC were acting as the moral guardians. The Church also wrote to the BBC about these death records.
              There are very few records that were completely banned by the BBC, most were played at some time or another. Even the Sex Pistols God Save The Queen, was played on the BBC late at night by John Peel in 1977.
              The BBC Four series starts with George Formby songs like the "disgusting" Little Stick of Blackpool Rock! And ends with Ding Dong The Witch is Dead for Mrs T death!
              Judge Dread must surely be the artist most banned by the BBC. He had a whole string of hits in the 70s and none of them were played.

              Comment


              • In 1969 the Beeb also banned Je T'aime and Max Romeo's Wet Dream. I bought both of them
                The Ultimate Averaged Chart. The Definitive Chart Reflecting The Sixties.

                Comment


                • Graham76man
                  Graham76man commented
                  Editing a comment
                  Not true on Je T'aime, they played an instrumental version only.

              • Those were the first two that POTP would not play.

                With Romeo's, Freeman was not even allowed to say the title. The first time I heard it played on the radio at all was by Roger Scott on Capital mid-70s, when he played both records back-to-back.

                Comment


                • I remember when Tony Blackburn did the chart run down on his breakfast show he would simply say ' the Max Romeo record is at number seventeen'
                  The Ultimate Averaged Chart. The Definitive Chart Reflecting The Sixties.

                  Comment


                  • They played an instrumental version by another act, Sounds Nice, which charted in its own right, the Birkin Gainsbourg version was banned and never played at all.
                    The Ultimate Averaged Chart. The Definitive Chart Reflecting The Sixties.

                    Comment


                    • Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending August 12th 1961

                      The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending August 12th 1961 NME RM MM DISC RR Total
                      Last This The Sound Survey Stores 80 60 110 50 30 Points
                      Week Week The Top 30 Singles Chart BBC TOP 30 Scored
                      2 1 You Don't Know - Helen Shapiro 1 1 1 1 1 1 9900
                      1 2 Well I Ask You - Eden Kane 2 2 2 2 2 2 9570
                      3 3 Temptation - The Everly Brothers 3 4 5 3 3 5 8980
                      4 4 Halfway To Paradise - Billy Fury 5 6 4 5 6 3 8570
                      14 5 Johnny Remember Me - John Leyton 4 3 3 7 5 18 8250
                      8 6 Romeo - Petula Clark 6 5 6 9 7 4 8010
                      10 7 Hello Mary Lou / Travellin' Man - Ricky Nelson 10 11 8 4 13 8 7540
                      5 8 Runaway - Del Shannon 8= 10 7 6 10 11 7520
                      9 9 You Always Hurt The One You Love - Clarence 'Frogman' Henry 7 8 12 10 4 6 7390
                      6 10 Pasadena - The Temperance Seven 8= 7 12 11 8 10 7040
                      7 11 A Girl Like You - Cliff Richard 12 12 10 8 11 7 7030
                      11 12 Don't You Know It - Adam Faith 11 9 14 13 9 13 6400
                      12 13 Time - Craig Douglas 14 13 9 14 14 9 6140
                      13 14 Baby I Don't Care / Valley Of Tears - Buddy Holly 17 22 13 15 15 12 4930
                      15 15 Marcheta - Karl Denver 15 17 16 16 16 17 4840
                      16 16 Climb Ev'ry Mountain / Reach For The Stars - Shirley Bassey 13 15 12 12 14 4830
                      21 17 Quarter To Three - The U.S. Bonds 16 14 15 19 17 16 4790
                      17 18 But I Do - Clarence 'Frogman' Henry 18 19 19 18 19 23 3950
                      22 19 Moody River - Pat Boone 20 20 18 17 20 3530
                      18 20 Weekend - Eddie Cochran 23 20 21 2150
                      23 21 That's My Home - Mr. Acker Bilk 19 18 18 25 1870
                      NEW 22 Cupid - Sam Cooke 21 17 30 1670
                      24 23 Quite A Party - The Fireballs 27 20 980
                      20 24 Running Scared - Roy Orbison 28 15 720
                      19 25 Surrender - Elvis Presley 25 24 690
                      25 26 Dum Dum - Brenda Lee 26 22 670
                      NEW 27 How Many Tears - Bobby Vee 24 560
                      NEW 28 The Writing On The Wall - Tommy Steele 20 550
                      RE 29 A Scottish Soldier - Andy Stewart 30 19 440
                      26 30 The Frightened City - The Shadows 29 26 310
                      Reach For The Stars - Shirley Bassey 16
                      Wheels Cha Cha - Joe Loss 27 120
                      Old Smokie / High Voltage - Johnny and The Hurricanes 28 90
                      Breakin' In A Brand New Broken Heart - Connie Francis 29 60
                      The Ultimate Averaged Chart. The Definitive Chart Reflecting The Sixties.

                      Comment


                      • 7 Hello Mary Lou / Travellin' Man - Ricky Nelson 10 11 8 4 13 8

                        Any reason why this went back up the charts? Up to no. 4 in MM but down to no. 13 in DISC.
                        TV appearance, or touring the country?

                        Comment


                        • It wasn't that unusual brian to see these big differences between the charts. I think we see these clearer now because the charts are lined up against each other so comparison and differences are much more obvious.
                          The inexplicable thing is you can see it from time to time across all charts. Although RR is by far the worst culprit as we have discussed many many times every one of these charts at one time or another falls out of step with the others.

                          That is where the mathematical strength of averaging comes into it's own, it filters out extremes finding the more robust middle ground.
                          The Ultimate Averaged Chart. The Definitive Chart Reflecting The Sixties.

                          Comment


                          • Just realised there will be another record coming straight in at number one on 13-Jan-62. So it isn't just a Beatles and Elvis club.

                            Comment


                            • .. and you are right Splodj
                              The Ultimate Averaged Chart. The Definitive Chart Reflecting The Sixties.

                              Comment


                              • Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending August 19th 1961


                                The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending August 19th 1961 NME RM MM DISC RR Total
                                Last This The Sound Survey Stores 80 60 110 50 30 Points
                                Week Week The Top 30 Singles Chart BBC TOP 30 Scored
                                1 1 You Don't Know - Helen Shapiro 1 1 1 1 2 1 9850
                                5 2 Johnny Remember Me - John Leyton 2 2 3 3 1 2 9450
                                2 3 Well I Ask You - Eden Kane 3 3 2 2 3 3 9410
                                4 4 Halfway To Paradise - Billy Fury 4 5 4 4 4 7 8740
                                6 5 Romeo - Petula Clark 5 4 5 5 6 4 8640
                                16 6 Reach For The Stars / Climb Ev'ry Mountain - Shirley Bassey 6 9 6 7 5 6 7950
                                10 7 Pasadena - The Temperance Seven 7 6 9 10 7 11 7430
                                3 8 Temptation - The Everly Brothers 8 12 12 6 8 8 7250
                                7 9 Hello Mary Lou / Travellin' Man - Ricky Nelson 10 13 10 8 11 5 7010
                                9 10 You Always Hurt The One You Love - Clarence 'Frogman' Henry 9 7 11 12 9 9 6970
                                11 11 A Girl Like You - Cliff Richard 12= 15 7 9 13 12 6610
                                13 12 Time - Craig Douglas 12= 8 8 14 15 10 6520
                                12 13 Don't You Know It - Adam Faith 11 10 15 13 10 15 6150
                                8 14 Runaway - Del Shannon 14 16 14 11 12 14 5880
                                17 15 Quarter To Three - The U.S. Bonds 15 13 13 15 14 13 5670
                                14 16 Baby I Don't Vare / Valley Of Tears - Buddy Holly 16 18 16 16 16 3890
                                22 17 Cupid - Sam Cooke 19 19 17 18 27 3350
                                15 18 Marcheta - Karl Denver 18 20 19 18 18 3240
                                21 19 That's My Home - Mr. Acker Bilk 17 17 19 17 21 2840
                                30 20 The Frightened City - The Shadows 25 16 20 25 2770
                                20 21 Weekend - Eddie Cochran 20 22 17 17 2680
                                27 22 How Many Tears - Bobby Vee 23 20 20 19 2210
                                19 23 Moody River - Pat Boone 28 19 20 1170
                                18 24 But I Do - Clarence 'Frogman' Henry 21 22 1070
                                28 25 Writing On The Wall - Tommy Steele 30 18 860
                                23 26 Quite A Party - The Fireballs 24 29 620
                                24 27 Running Scared - Roy Orbison 27 23 560
                                25 28 Surrender - Elvis Presley 26 28 490
                                29 29 A Scottish Soldier - Andy Stewart 24 210
                                RE 30 Nature Boy - Bobby Darin 29 160
                                Climb Ev'ry Mountain - Shirley Bassey 11
                                Dum Dum - Brenda Lee 26 150
                                Ring Of Fire - Duane Eddy 30 30
                                The Ultimate Averaged Chart. The Definitive Chart Reflecting The Sixties.

                                Comment


                                • Helen holds on but John Leyton closes in ..
                                  The Ultimate Averaged Chart. The Definitive Chart Reflecting The Sixties.

                                  Comment


                                  • Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending August 26th 1961

                                    The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending August 26th 1961 NME RM MM DISC RR Total
                                    Last This The Sound Survey Stores 80 60 110 50 30 Points
                                    Week Week The Top 30 Singles Chart BBC TOP 30 Scored
                                    2 1 Johnny Remember Me - John Leyton 1 1 1 1 1 2 9870
                                    1 2 You Don't Know - Helen Shapiro 2 2 2 2 2 1 9600
                                    3 3 Well I Ask You - Eden Kane 3 3 3 3 4 4 9160
                                    6 4 Reach For The Stars / Climb Ev'ry Mountain - Shirley Bassey 4 6 4 4 3 5 8770
                                    4 5 Halfway To Paradise - Billy Fury 5 4 5 5 5 6 8630
                                    5 6 Romeo - Petula Clark 6 5 6 6 6 3 8420
                                    11 7 A Girl Like You - Cliff Richard 8= 8 7 10 13 11 7090
                                    9 8 Hello Mary Lou / Travellin' Man - Ricky Nelson 10= 11 9 8 14 8 6990
                                    15 9 Quarter To Three - The U.S. Bonds 7 7 13 11 9 16 6750
                                    12 10 Time - Craig Douglas 10= 10 8 13 10 9 6750
                                    10 11 You Always Hurt The One You Love - Clarence 'Frogman' Henry 8= 9 10 15 7 10 6610
                                    8 12 Temptation - The Everly Brothers 14 19 11 7 12 7 6470
                                    7 13 Pasadena - The Temperance Seven 12 16 15 9 8 14 6240
                                    13 14 Don't You Know It - Adam Faith 13 12 12 14 11 12 6100
                                    18 15 Marcheta - Karl Denver 15 18 16 12 15 15 5310
                                    16 16 Baby I Don't Care / Valley Of Tears - Buddy Holly 16 14 14 16 17 17 5150
                                    17 17 Cupid - Sam Cooke 17= 15 18 18 20 22 4310
                                    14 18 Runaway - Del Shannon 19 21 17 17 18 18 4220
                                    19 19 That's My Home - Mr. Acker Bilk 17= 17 20 16 19 3440
                                    22 20 How Many Tears - Bobby Vee 20 19 19 19 13 3420
                                    21 21 Weekend - Eddie Cochran 23 19 20 1690
                                    NEW 22 Ain't Gonna Wash For A Week - The Brook Brothers 22 20 1380
                                    NEW 23 Too Many Beautiful Girls - Clinton Ford 28 20 900
                                    23 24 Moody River - Pat Boone 27 21 620
                                    25 25 Writing On The Wall - Tommy Steele 24 560
                                    30 26 Nature Boy - Bobby Darin 25 480
                                    NEW 27 What Kind Of Fool Am I - Anthony Newley 26 400
                                    20 28 The Frightened City - The Shadows 30 25 260
                                    RE 29 Dum Dum - Brenda Lee 23 240
                                    26 30 Quite A Party - The Fireballs 29 29 220
                                    Climb Ev'ry Mountain - Shirley Bassey 13
                                    But I Do - Clarence 'Frogman' Henry 24 210
                                    A Scottish Soldier - Andy Stewart 26 150
                                    Running Scared - Roy Orbison 27 120
                                    Wheels Cha Cha - Joe Loss 28 90
                                    Baby Sittin' - Bobby Angelo 30 30
                                    The Ultimate Averaged Chart. The Definitive Chart Reflecting The Sixties.

                                    Comment


                                    • The strange case of Disc having a record leave their Top 20 from number 7 (which they subsequently corrected) prompted me to look back on this thread to the even stranger case of RR having one leave their Top 50 from number 9.

                                      The record concerned is Sixteen Reasons by Connie Stevens, and having the charts side by side reveals what happened.

                                      The odd movement was not caused by RR having it disappear prematurely, but by RR jacking it up to number 9 on 16-Jul-60 when it had left all the other charts.

                                      Comment


                                      • Cliff Richard "A girl like you" in NME chart,

                                        5, 5, 10, 12, 15, 8, 7, 16, 28.

                                        Wonder what was happening at the time that the record jumped up, then slid back again?

                                        Comment


                                        • Originally posted by Splodj View Post
                                          The strange case of Disc having a record leave their Top 20 from number 7 (which they subsequently corrected) prompted me to look back on this thread to the even stranger case of RR having one leave their Top 50 from number 9.

                                          The record concerned is Sixteen Reasons by Connie Stevens, and having the charts side by side reveals what happened.

                                          The odd movement was not caused by RR having it disappear prematurely, but by RR jacking it up to number 9 on 16-Jul-60 when it had left all the other charts.
                                          I don't realistically know how that could be explained other than a major compilation error by RR. For a record to climb into the top ten at #9 from 18 the previous week then vanish completely from a 50 place chart the following week should have been statistically near impossible. The week it climbed to #9 on RR it was not placed on any other chart at all. Had to be a compilation error.
                                          The Ultimate Averaged Chart. The Definitive Chart Reflecting The Sixties.

                                          Comment


                                          • Originally posted by brian05 View Post
                                            Cliff Richard "A girl like you" in NME chart,

                                            5, 5, 10, 12, 15, 8, 7, 16, 28.

                                            Wonder what was happening at the time that the record jumped up, then slid back again?
                                            Yeah that was a strange pattern, but the more I work with these charts the less surprised I get at weird movement patterns.
                                            The Ultimate Averaged Chart. The Definitive Chart Reflecting The Sixties.

                                            Comment


                                            • I haven't seen any evidence of RM using a later survey period than Monday to Saturday as Dave Taylor suggested, as their positioning is generally in line with the others (excepting laggard RR). I believe Alan Smith said that the BBC dropped RM because they calculated their chart later, rather than have a later period, which looks a more plausible explanation. Although even then it means the BBC wanted a lot of time to do their calculations before the weekend.

                                              I still wonder if RR used a Saturday to Friday survey period, despite what Alan Smith said about them all being the same. It seems the most likely explanation for their chart being about half a week behind, as Saturday was the biggest day for sales. If so then it means the two records that went straight in at number one in RR achieved that on sales only on the Friday of release.

                                              Comment


                                              • Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending September 2nd 1961

                                                The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending September 2nd 1961 NME RM MM DISC RR Total
                                                Last This The Sound Survey Stores 80 60 110 50 30 Points
                                                Week Week The Top 30 Singles Chart BBC TOP 30 Scored
                                                1 1 Johnny Remember Me - John Leyton 1 1 1 1 1 1 9900
                                                2 2 You Don't Know - Helen Shapiro 2 1 2 2 2 2 9650
                                                4 3 Reach For The Stars / Climb Ev'ry Mountain - Shirley Bassey 3 3 3 3 3 3 9240
                                                3 4 Well I Ask You - Eden Kane 4 5 5 4 4 4 8770
                                                6 5 Romeo - Petula Clark 5 4 4 6 5 6 8580
                                                5 6 Halfway To Paradise - Billy Fury 6 6 6 5 6 5 8390
                                                9 7 Quarter To Three - The U.S. Bonds 7 9 11 7 8 7 7470
                                                10 8 Time - Craig Douglas 9 13 10 11 7 11 6700
                                                11 9 You Always Hurt The One You Love - Clarence 'Frogman' Henry 8 10 15 10 10 13 6540
                                                7 10 A Girl Like You - Cliff Richard 10 7 7 17 9 15 6480
                                                8 11 Hello Mary Lou / Travellin' Man - Ricky Nelson 11 14 14 9 11 10 6430
                                                17 12 Cupid - Sam Cooke 12 12 9 14 13 18 6000
                                                19 13 That's My Home - Mr. Acker Bilk 13 8 12 15 19 14 5850
                                                13 14 Pasadena - The Temperance Seven 14 15 18 13 15 9 5500
                                                20 15 How Many Tears - Bobby Vee 15 16 13 12 17 17 5490
                                                22 16 Ain't Gonna Wash For A Week - The Brook Brothers 18 20 8 18 14 22 4810
                                                12 17 Temptation - The Everly Brothers 16= 18 20 8 16 4680
                                                15 18 Marcheta - Karl Denver 19= 24 17 16 20 8 4290
                                                16 19 Baby I Don't Care - Buddy Holly 19 16 20 18 19 4080
                                                14 20 Don't You Know It - Adam Faith 16= 16 19 12 12 4040
                                                NEW 21 Michael Row The Boat / Lumbered - Lonnie Donegan 19= 20 16 1630
                                                NEW 22 Someday (You'll Be Sorry) - Kenny Ball 20 880
                                                NEW 23 Pepito - Los Machucambos 19 720
                                                NEW 24 Girls - Johnny Burnette 23 640
                                                27 25 What Kind Of Fool Am I - Anthony Newley 25 480
                                                NEW 26 Wheels Cha Cha - Joe Loss 28 23 480
                                                25 27 Writing On The Wall - Tommy Steele 26 30 430
                                                18 28 Runaway - Del Shannon 30 20 410
                                                NEW 29 Say It With Flowers - Dorothy Squires and Russ Conway 26 400
                                                21 30 Weekend - Eddie Cochrane 21 300
                                                Climb Ev'ry Mountain - Shirley Bassey 11
                                                A Scottish Soldier - Andy Stewart 24 210
                                                Dum Dum - Brenda Lee 25 180
                                                True Love - Terry Lightfoot 29 160
                                                The Frightened City - The Shadows 26 150
                                                Moody River - Pat Boone 27 120
                                                But I Do - Clarence 'Frogman' Henry 28 90
                                                There I've Said It Again - Al Saxon 30 80
                                                Quite A Party - The Fireballs 29 60
                                                The Ultimate Averaged Chart. The Definitive Chart Reflecting The Sixties.

                                                Comment

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