The Ultimate Averaged Chart - The BBC Chart Re-Imagined

[MrTibbs]

Billy J's 'Secret' is another of those "Should it be in the roster of bone fide number ones?" cases. The next Ultimate will be informative on this question.

I was going to take my Fireball XL5 EP to the tip, but 45cat says it's worth £50!

Splodj ! A crime like that is still punishable by hanging

[kingofskiffle]

I was going to take my Fireball XL5 EP to the tip, but 45cat says it's worth £50!

Never throw away Fireball XL5 stuff!!!! Stuff is only worth what people will pay for it, but the Gerry Anderson stuff in general has a high value as not many where sold at the time/survive today (relatively speaking).

[Splodj]

Billy J's 'Secret' is another of those "Should it be in the roster of bone fide number ones?" cases. The next Ultimate will be informative on this question.

I was going to take my Fireball XL5 EP to the tip, but 45cat says it's worth £50!

[Splodj]

duplicate

[MrTibbs]

Liverpool piles on the pressure, The Beatles hold #1, Billy J, closes in at #2, Billy F, takes #8, and just as Gerry's How leaves the top ten his I Like crashes in at #16. We are moving inexorably towards that really interesting period when 1963 really catches fire

[MrTibbs]

Greetings Pop Pickers !

Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending June 1st 1963

The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending June 1st 1963								NME	MM	DISC	RR	Total
Last	This		The Sound Survey				Stores	100	150	50	30	Points
Week	Week		The Top 30 Singles Chart				BBC			TOP	30	Scored
1	1	From Me To You - The Beatles					1	1	1	1	1	9900
4	2	Do You Want To Know A Secret - Billy J. Kramer and The Dakotas					2	1	2	2	2	9670
2	3	Scarlett O'Hara - Jet Harris and Tony Meehan					3	3	3	4	3	9190
5	4	Lucky Lips - Cliff Richard					4	4	5	3	4	8810
3	5	Can't Get Used To Losing You - Andy Williams					5	7	4	7	5	8430
7	6	In Dreams - Roy Orbison					6	5	6	5	8	8340
6	7	Two Kinds Of Teardrops - Del Shannon					7	8	7	6	6	7900
14	8	When Will You Say I Love You - Billy Fury					8	6	8	8	7	7820
13	9	Deck Of Cards - Wink Martindale					9	11	9	9	10	7030
17	10	Take These Chains From My Heart - Ray Charles					11	9	13	10	14	6460
12	11	Young Lovers - Paul and Paula					10	12	12	11	9	6410
8	12	How Do You Do It - Gerry and The Pacemakers					13	13	10	14	13	6340
9	13	Nobody's Darlin But Mine - Frank Ifield					12	14	11	13	11	6200
10	14	From A Jack To A King - Ned Miller					14	17	14	15	15	5230
11	15	Losing You - Brenda Lee					15	18	15	16	12	5020
NEW	16	I Like It - Gerry and The Pacemakers					16	9	21	12	22	4920
20	17	If You Gotta Make A Fool Of Somebody - Freddie and The Dreamers					17	15	17	17	16	4850
15	18	He's So Fine - The Chiffons					18	22	16	18	17	4220
19	19	Pipeline - The Chantays					19	21	19	19	19	3760
16	20	Say I Won't Be There - The Springfields					20	28	18	23	18	3040
21	21	Casablanca - Kenny Ball					24=		20	26	23	2140
NEW	22	Harvest Of Love - Benny Hill					21	23	26	27	20	2080
26	23	Forget Him - Bobby Rydell					26	19	29	21	29	2060
NEW	24	Falling - Roy Orbison					22	16		20		2050
18	25	Brown Eyed Handsome Man - Buddy Holly					23	29	22	29	21	1950
23	26	Rhythm Of The Rain - The Cascades					27=		23		24	1410
30	27	Shy Girl - Mark Wynter					24=	20		28		1250
24	28	Walk Like A Man - The Four Seasons					29=		24		26	1200
22	29	The Folk Singer - Tommy Roe					29=		25	30	25	1130
NEW	30	Another Saturday Night - Sam Cooke					27=	25		25	28	990
25		My Way - Eddie Cochran							27		27	720
X		Out Of My Mind - Johnny Tillotson						24				700
X		Shy Girl - The Cascades					29=	25				600
27		Little Band Of Gold - James Gilreath						30	28			550
B		The Ice Cream Man - The Tornados								22		450
X		Let's Go Steady Again - Neil Sedaka						27				400
X		Just Like Me - The Hollies								24		350
28		Foot Tapper - The Shadows							30		30	180
29		Summer Holiday / Dancing Shoes - Cliff Richard

[kingofskiffle]

Hummmm. Yeah, you have a point.... A well. If you do want to get rid of anything else though do let me know.

[Robbie]

Wish you'd said! I'd have taken them off your hands

It would have cost you a fortune in postage fees, they weighed quite a bit!

[Robbie]

Did you throw them out on purpose Robbie or by accident ?

On purpose. They were cluttering up my house and I'd been meaning to get rid of them for many years.

[kingofskiffle]

The NME chart for 4 March 1960 was added to Guinness Hit Singles at some point in the late 90s. Had this been last night I would have been able to pinpoint the exact edition but this afternoon I went to the local council household waste tip to dispose of a number of items. Amongst the items: every edition of Hit Singles from 1989 to 2004...

I remember as far back as the 80s thinking that a chart had been missed out so I remember not being surprised that it was eventually included.

Wish you'd said! I'd have taken them off your hands

[MrTibbs]

Did you throw them out on purpose Robbie or by accident ?

[Robbie]

The NME chart for 4 March 1960 was added to Guinness Hit Singles at some point in the late 90s. Had this been last night I would have been able to pinpoint the exact edition but this afternoon I went to the local council household waste tip to dispose of a number of items. Amongst the items: every edition of Hit Singles from 1989 to 2004...

I remember as far back as the 80s thinking that a chart had been missed out so I remember not being surprised that it was eventually included.

[Graham76man]

If you look at the calender for 1960 you will see that the NME Charts are following the Friday day. The RR first issue comes on the 10 March a Thursday. So the sales could not have come from that week. So they had to be 5 March sales end week switched to Saturday not Friday. So the Guiness people were right not to use the 4 March NME.
However they are not consistent as is the OCC with it's chart dates and the often use the publication date of RR as the week ending date later on.

[MrTibbs]

Greetings Pop Pickers !

Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending May 25th 1963

The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending May 25th 1963								NME	MM	DISC	RR	Total
Last	This		The Sound Survey				Stores	100	150	50	30	Points
Week	Week		The Top 30 Singles Chart				BBC			TOP	30	Scored
1	1	From Me To You - The Beatles					1	1	1	1	1	9900
2	2	Scarlett O'Hara - Jet Harris and Tony Meehan					2	2	2	5	2	9420
3	3	Can't Get Used To Losing You - Andy Williams					4	5	3	4	5	8930
9	4	Do You Want To Know A Secret - Billy J. Kramer and The Dakotas					3	3	6	2	3	8840
6	5	Lucky Lips - Cliff Richard					5	4	7	3	4	8510
7	6	Two Kinds Of Teardrops - Del Shannon					6	6	5	6	6	8400
5	7	In Dreams - Roy Orbison					7	7	4	7	7	8370
4	8	How Do You Do It - Gerry and The Pacemakers					8	8	8	9	8	7540
8	9	Nobody's Darlin' But Mine - Frank Ifield					9	9	9	8	11	7250
10	10	From A Jack To A King - Ned Miller					10	12	10	12	12	6570
11	11	Losing You - Brenda Lee					12	15	11	15	10	6030
15	12	Young Lovers - Paul and Paula					11	14	14	11	9	5910
17	13	Deck Of Cards - Wink Martindale					14	13	13	14	13	5890
24	14	When Will You Say I Love You - Billy Fury					13	11	16	10	15	5780
13	15	He's So Fine - The Chiffons					15	16	12	16	16	5550
12	16	Say I Won't Be There - The Springfields					16	20	15	17	14	4710
30	17	Take These Chains From My Heart - Ray Charles					17	10	24	13	21	4350
14	18	Brown Eyed Handsome Man - Buddy Holly					18=	21	17	20	18	4040
21	19	Pipeline - The Chantays					18=	17	21	18	20	3880
26	20	If You Gotta Make A Fool Of Somebody - Freddie and The Dreamers					20	18	23	19	23	3340
19	21	Casablanca - Kenny Ball					22	23	19	21	24	3310
18	22	The Folk Singer - Tommy Roe					21	25	20	22	19	3060
16	23	Rhythm Of The Rain - The Cascades					23		18	24	17	2720
20	24	Walk Like A Man - The Four Seasons					24		22	25	22	1920
25	25	My Way - Eddie Cochran					25	26	25	26	25	1830
NEW	26	Forget Him - Bobby Rydell					26	19		23		1600
28	27	Little Band Of Gold - James Gilreath					27	22	30	30		1100
23	28	Foot Tapper - The Shadows					28		26		26	900
27	29	Summer Holiday / Dancing Shoes - Cliff Richard					29=		27		27	720
NEW	30	Shy Girl - Mark Wynter						24				700
B		Harvest Of Love - Benny Hill					29=	30	29	27	30	630
22		Say Wonderful Things - Ronnie Carroll							28		28	540
X		Let's Go Steady Again - Neil Sedaka						27				400
X		Shy Girl - The Cascades						28				300
B		Another Saturday Night - Sam Cooke								28	29	210
X		Fireball XL5 - Don Spencer						29				200
X		She's New To You - Susan Maughan								29		100
29		The End Of The World - Skeeter Davis

[MrTibbs]

Whatever their theory was it ended up a mess obviously. I always thought I was the only one that didn't get their reasoning around dates when to me it was obvious a chart was missing. I see from above you guys had the same problem.

As 'Oliver Hardy' would have said 'That's another fine mess Guinness got us into'

[Splodj]

"The final NME chart used is that of 26 Feb 1960, as the chart published in RR on 10 Mar 1960 was dated 5 Mar 1960 and clearly corresponded with the NME chart of 4 Mar 1960."

They were making the absurd claim that RRs 5-Mar survey date corresponded with NMEs 4-Mar publication date.

[Metalweb]

I always assumed a deliberate decision was taken not to have a gap of less than a full week between the two charts used....

[kjell]

Can’t remember where I read it, but I remember I was sore about it. They skipped the NME chart that followed 60 Feb 26 and gave two reasons. One was that the NME chart was a Friday chart while RR was published Thursdays. The other was that the gap between chart date and publication date consisted of more days in the latter such nearing the gap between the two publications chart dates to less than 6 days.

[kingofskiffle]

Maybe its around Guinness 16 that they competed the change?

I realised it was “missing” years ago when there was a 13 odd day gap between charts. I did the maths and worked out that the NME 4 Mar chart had to be included. It wouldn’t make sense otherwise.

[Metalweb]

I've a copy of Guinness edition 16.

In the artist section Adam Faith's 'Poor Me' gets duly credited with 18 weeks.

But there's a separate section listing Number Ones and it gets just one week there!

[Splodj]

So you guys knew about the missing week. I have to admit it had escaped my attention until today when looking at the charts on this thread around that period.

[MrTibbs]

The OCC does include the w/e 5-Mar-60 NME chart. (Although I notice they have Voice In The Wilderness and On A Slow Boat To China tied at number 4 that week, unlike the NME charts on this forum.)

That is definitely wrong. The original NME chart has Emile at 4 and Cliff at 5. No tie.

I too have long puzzled over those dates as the charts don't match up dates wise.

[kingofskiffle]

I think they just copied the old Guiness book.....

[RokinRobinOfLocksley]

To add to that, the Virgin Top 40 Charts book (2009) has the same problem. Their first chart is dated "week ending 10-Mar-60", but the last week positions are from the 27-Feb-60 NME chart, not the 5-Mar-60 NME chart.

[kingofskiffle]

I can't be much help here as I only have 3 relevant Guinness books - the first edition from 1977 (does not use 4 Mar NME), Guinness Hits Of the 60's (Does not use 4 Mar NME) and the Version 17 Guinness (with albums) that does use that missing chart. The Virgin book does not use it (Adam Faith 17 weeks). This change happened after 1996 (The Top 40 book fro 1995 still has that odd comment in the front).