The Ultimate Averaged Chart - The BBC Chart Re-Imagined

[braindeadpj]

1 What Do You Want - Adam Faith
2 What Do You Want To Make Those Eyes At Me For - Emile Ford and The Checkmates

Is this the first time that a song title has been included as part of another song?

I wonder how many singles were returned because they bought the wrong one due to the similarity with the song title? Presumably that would negate a sale?

[MrTibbs]

30 I'll Never Fall In Love Again - Johnny Ray

Is this the same song as Bobbie Gentry's 1969 hit?

No Brian completely different song. The Bobbie Gentry song was a Bacharach/David composition from the musical Promises Promises.

[brian05]

30 I'll Never Fall In Love Again - Johnny Ray

Is this the same song as Bobbie Gentry's 1969 hit?

[brian05]

1 What Do You Want - Adam Faith
2 What Do You Want To Make Those Eyes At Me For - Emile Ford and The Checkmates

Is this the first time that a song title has been included as part of another song?

[Splodj]

Yes, earlier in the thread we identified 11 NME joint number ones.

Disc and RM each have a record at 7 that is nowhere on the other.

[MrTibbs]

It's the famous 'What Do You Want...' dead heat on the NME chart. Elsewhere the clear winner is Adam Faith.

Yeah the way these two titles swopped and counter swopped the #1 position on the various charts suggests they were pretty close sales wise for weeks.

[Robbie]

It's the famous 'What Do You Want...' dead heat on the NME chart. Elsewhere the clear winner is Adam Faith.

[MrTibbs]

Greetings Pop Pickers

Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending December 19th 1959

Here are all '' the uppers, the downers, the just hanging 'arounders

The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending December 19th 1959								NME	MM	DISC	RM	Total
Last	This		The Sound Survey					75	35	45	60	Points
Week	Week		The Top 30 Singles Chart				BBC			TOP	30	Scored
1	1	What Do You Want - Adam Faith					1	1	1	1	1	6450
2	2	What Do You Want To Make Those Eyes At Me For - Emile Ford and The Checkmates					2	1	2	2	2	6310
4	3	Oh Carol - Neil Sedaka					3	3	3	3	3	6020
3	4	Travellin' Light - Cliff Richard					4	5	4	4	4	5730
5	5	Seven Little Girls Sitting In The Back Seat - The Avons					5	4	6	5	5	5630
6	6	Red River Rock - Johnny and The Hurricanes					6	6	5	6	6	5410
10	7	Snow Coach - Russ Conway					7	10	12	8	9	4595
12	8	Rawhide - Frankie Laine					8=	8	8	16	14	4225
8	9	Put Your Head On My Shoulder - Paul Anka					8=	7	9	12	18	4205
13	10	Little White Bull - Tommy Steele					11	12	13	13	11	4065
11	11	Among My Souvenirs - Connie Francis					10	13	7	18	10	4035
18	12	More And More Party Pops - Russ Conway					13	8	20	15	11	4030
7	13	Mack The Knife - Bobby Darin					12	16	11	10	16	3670
9	14	Teen Beat - Sandy Nelson					15	21	19	9	8	3540
23	15	Some Kind-a Earthquake - Duane Eddy					14	17	10		7	3225
19	16	Piano Party - Winifred Atwell					18	10		19	15	3075
16	17	Little Donkey - The Beverley Sisters					16	15	17	7		2770
NEW	18	Jingle Bell Rock - Max Bygraves					17	14	15	14		2600
21	19	Deck Of Cards - Wink Martindale						18		20	19	2190
20	20	Bad Boy - Marty Wilde						20	14		20	2080
NEW	21	Johnny Staccato Theme - Elmer Bernstein					19=	19			13	1980
NEW	22	Be My Guest - Fats Domino						22			17	1515
17	23	Mr Blue - Mike Preston					19=	25		11		1350
15	24	('Til) I Kissed You - The Everly Brothers						28	18	17		1310
27	25	San Miguel - Lonnie Donegan						23				600
RE	26	Little Donkey - Gracie Fields						24				525
28	27	Living Doll - Cliff Richard							16			525
NEW	28	Mary's Boy Child - Nina and Frederick						26				375
RE	29	Heartaches By The Number - Guy Mitchell						27				300
NEW	30	We Got Love - Alma Cogan						29				150
30	30	I'll Never Fall In Love Again - Johnny Ray						29				150
14		Sea Of Love - Marty Wilde
22		Poison Ivy - The Coasters
24		Seven Little Girls Sitting In The Back Seat - Paul Evans and The Curls
25		One More Sunrise (Morgen) - Dickie Valentine
26		The Three Bells - The Three Browns
28		Makin' Love - Floyd Robinson

[Robbie]

'I'll Never Fall In Love' will be Johnnie Ray's last chart entry. It's also one of his best singles. The track was sampled by Portishead in 1994 on the track 'Biscuit', from the album 'Dummy'.

[Blondini]

According to Discogs 'Ivy Will Cling' by Arnold Stang was the B-side, so I wonder if it was flipped.

his version (featuring The Sunshine Kids) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=StCQGn5quWw is better than the cloying version by Bernard Bresslaw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UnSZaCskFpA

[MrTibbs]

It's poignant that three of the most prominent male vocalists throughout the 1950's Frankie Laine, Guy Mitchell and Johnnie Ray all enjoy their very last Top 30 hit each will have at the very end of the decade and in the last month.

[MrTibbs]

Greetings Pop Pickers

Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending December 12th 1959

Here are all '' the uppers, the downers, the just hanging 'arounders

The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending December 12th 1959								NME	MM	DISC	RM	Total
Last	This		The Sound Survey					75	35	45	60	Points
Week	Week		The Top 30 Singles Chart				BBC			TOP	30	Scored
2	1	What Do You Want - Adam Faith					1	1	1	2	1	6405
1	2	What Do You Want To MAKE Those Eyes At Me For - Emile Ford and The Checkmates					2	2	2	1	2	6280
3	3	Travellin' Light - Cliff Richard					3=	3	4	3	4	5925
4	4	Oh Carol - Neil Sedaka					3=	4	3	4	3	5900
8	5	Seven Little Girls Sitting In The Back Seat - The Avons					5	5	5	5	5	5590
5	6	Red River Rock - Johnny and The Hurricanes					6	6	6	6	6	5375
6	7	Mack The Knife - Bobby Darin					7	7	7	8	8	5055
7	8	Put Your Head On My Shoulder - Paul Anka					8=	7	8	12	9	4780
10	9	Teen Beat - Sandy Nelson					8=	9	10	10	7	4770
12	10	Snow Coach - Russ Conway					10	9	12	11	10	4475
27	11	Among My Souvenirs - Connie Francis					11	12	9	19	12	3875
13	12	Rawhide - Frankie Laine					12	13	13	17	11	3810
18	13	Little White Bull - Tommy Steele					15	11	17	20	13	3565
11	14	Sea Of Love - Marty Wilde					14	20	15	9	16	3275
9	15	('Til) I Kissed You - The Everly Brothers					17	19	16	14	17	3030
24	16	Little Donkey - The Beverley Sisters					13	14	11	13		2785
14	17	Mr Blue - Mike Preston					16	17	18	7		2585
20	18	More And More Party Pops - Russ Conway					18=	15	20		15	2545
15	19	Piano Party - Winifred Atwell					20	16		18	20	2370
25	20	Bad Boy - Marty Wilde						18	19		19	2115
19	21	Deck Of Cards - Wink Martindale					18=	24	14	15		1840
16	22	Poison Ivy - The Coasters						23		16		1275
NEW	23	Some Kind-a Earthquake - Duane Eddy									14	1020
RE	24	Seven Little Girls Sitting In The Back Seat - Paul Evans and The Curls									18	780
17	25	One More Sunrise (Morgen) - Dickie Valentine						21				750
29	26	The Three Bells - The Browns						22				675
25	27	San Miguel - Lonnie Donegan						25				450
RE	28	Living Doll - Cliff Richard						26				375
21	28	Makin' Love - Floyd Robinson						26				375
NEW	30	I'll Never Fall In Love Again - Johnnie Ray						28				225
		If You Were The Only Boy In The World - Stevie Marsh						29				150
		Mary's Boy Child - Harry Belafonte						30				75
30		Little Donkey - Gracie Fields						30				75
22		Heartaches By The Number - Guy Mitchell
23		Broken-Hearted Melody - Sarah Vaughan
28		Ivy Will Cling - Arnold Strang

[Splodj]

I believe it would be consistent to include 21s as it would be applied equally to any chart when they revealed it, and last time was applicable to Disc, but that is just my opinion and I can understand the other point of view.

According to Discogs 'Ivy Will Cling' by Arnold Stang was the B-side, so I wonder if it was flipped.

This is an interesting week at the top because the MM and Disc number one prevails, despite their lower weighting. Looks like.we are in for an epic battle between two songs, the title of one being the first four words of the other!

[braindeadpj]

But. Just because the omission demonstrated that RM had two records downgraded to #21 doesn't mean they should be included for knowing this position. It would be unfair to Disc and MM to amend the chart rule for one week to accommodate this.All three need to be treated equally. No record below 20 was considered for them at this time as #21 didnt exist for RM, MM, Disc at this time so consistency is important.

Agreed. I was just providing an indication of what it would've have looked like if it had been included. I don't think you should include any outliers that become apparent due to publishing errors. Consistency is important as you state.

[MrTibbs]

Thanks Splodj for confirming the originally posted number 20 positions. Assigning them both a position of 21 for RM would have placed Little Donkey on 1200 at 23 (instead of 28) and Heartaches By The Number on 975 at 25 (instead of 30).

But. Just because the omission demonstrated that RM had two records downgraded to #21 doesn't mean they should be included for knowing this position. It would be unfair to Disc and MM to amend the chart rule for one week to accommodate this.All three need to be treated equally. No record below 20 was considered for them at this time as #21 didnt exist for RM, MM, Disc and consistency is important.

[setg1]

The performer of "Ivy Will Cling" is Arnold Stang. I couldn't find a copy of the Record Mirror chart, but the record label had his name spelled correctly, at least. He was most famous for voicing Top Cat on the cartoon of the same name.

[braindeadpj]

Two new entries tied for the original number 20: Heartaches By The Number (Guy Mitchell) and Little Donkey (Beverly Sisters). The former is now 17, as you can see, and the latter fell away then reappeared on their 26-Dec chart.

Personally I think that when a (what turns out to be) 21 position has been published it might as well be included in a composite, as all information is useful. But we had this discussion last time it happened, and of course it doesn't make much difference.

Thanks Splodj for confirming the originally posted number 20 positions. Assigning them both a position of 21 for RM would have placed Little Donkey on 1200 at 23 (instead of 28) and Heartaches By The Number on 975 at 25 (instead of 30).

[Blondini]

I am all for posting ALL chart positions each week, however many there are. This is history !! We need to see each record that appeared on any dealer chart, and give it its historical recognition. There is precedent for this already. If yall will recall, the BMRB album chart varied pretty much each week over 1970: first as a Top 20, but then total chaos, ha: as a Top 58+/-, then 47, 59, 60+/-, then 70+/-, back down to a 57+/-, before settling on a Top 50 in Jan 1971. Eventually expanding more in the years to come.

But I do appreciate those who prefer a nice and tidy fixed number of positions each week. So for those that prefer a constant Top 50 (or whatever) each week, just pretend that's what you're looking at, ha. Lop off the lower positions in your mind, or, perhaps Brian can just separate the Top 50 from the all lower positions, a 2 part chart. This will satisfy everyone's needs, and keep all of history alive.

I'd agree with this.

[Splodj]

Just wondered what track was originally at 20 in the published RM chart for November 28th

Two new entries tied for the original number 20: Heartaches By The Number (Guy Mitchell) and Little Donkey (Beverly Sisters). The former is now 17, as you can see, and the latter fell away then reappeared on their 26-Dec chart.

Personally I think that when a (what turns out to be) 21 position has been published it might as well be included in a composite, as all information is useful. But we had this discussion last time it happened, and of course it doesn't make much difference.

[braindeadpj]

As Robin says, it may be best to list all of the records. The readers can edit the listings as they see fit if they want to make it a specific number but you'll be assigning a position to records that others may not have known existed.
I'd rank the records as you calculate them rather than using the RM chart and building off that.
I look forward to this new project/expansion of a prior project (and agree that the old thread should be kept) and completely understand that it will take time to get the data as things are currently.

[braindeadpj]

Just wondered what track was originally at 20 in the published RM chart for November 28th (as it would've been used for the BBC chart calculations though it doesn't appear to be affecting the results as adjusting the known numbers gives the same result)?

If the BBC had taken into account Tean Beat - Sandy Nelson, then it would have been:
10 Teen Beat - Sandy Nelson
11 Mr. Blue - Mike Preston
12 Makin' Love - Floyd Robinson
13 Seven Little Girls Sitting In The Back Seat - The Avons
14 Broken- Hearted Melody - Sarah Vaughan
15 Snow Coach - Russ Conway
15 The Three Bells - The Browns
17 Poison Ivy - The Coasters
18 One More Sunrise (Morgen) - Dickie Valentine
19 More And More Party Pops - Russ Conway
19 Deck Of Cards - Wink Martindale

[MrTibbs]

Oh lots more interesting stuff from Robin in there to add to what I already have from you other guys to help me shape these RM historical dealer charts. This is shaping up nicely folks. Thanks again.

[RokinRobinOfLocksley]

Wow, I'm getting jazzed for these upcoming RM expanded charts 1954-61, Brian. What you'll be doing is basically what the book Hits That Missed should have done, recompiled the whole RM charts, not just the uncharted bubblers, though that was a most excellent book in itself.

I think we've discussed this before: should you (a) recompile the entire RM charts top to bottom, or (b) do all your compiling, but then keep the published RM chart as is for the upper part, and then add all the lower positions afterwards. Just something to think about.

I am all for posting ALL chart positions each week, however many there are. This is history !! We need to see each record that appeared on any dealer chart, and give it its historical recognition. There is precedent for this already. If yall will recall, the BMRB album chart varied pretty much each week over 1970: first as a Top 20, but then total chaos, ha: as a Top 58+/-, then 47, 59, 60+/-, then 70+/-, back down to a 57+/-, before settling on a Top 50 in Jan 1971. Eventually expanding more in the years to come.

But I do appreciate those who prefer a nice and tidy fixed number of positions each week. So for those that prefer a constant Top 50 (or whatever) each week, just pretend that's what you're looking at, ha. Lop off the lower positions in your mind, or, perhaps Brian can just separate the Top 50 from the all lower positions, a 2 part chart. This will satisfy everyone's needs, and keep all of history alive.

From the little work I did on this years ago, there will be many ties at the low end. If Brian is dealing with 60 dealer charts, it's possible that 1/4 of the charts or more could have 1 record each that did not appear on any of the other charts. Thus these records will appear at the bottom of Brian's compiled RM chart, tied with many others in the same situation. But again, this is history, it needs to be recorded.

Also glad that Brian will redo the 1954/55 charts as well. Expand expand expand !!

I am also in favor of KEEPING the original RM 54/55 thread, and letting Brian create a new thread for 54/61. Even though Brian is producing better expanded charts, there are so many important comments and questions and history in that original thread that will be lost. Do any of you think it's OK to delete an old Alan Smith or Dave Taylor thread? Absolutely not, these comments and knowledge provided by so many others is vital to our chart understandings. It's better to re-title the old thread to distinguish it from the upcoming new thread than to delete it from our history.

As whether to add NME positions in an extra side column (and possibly others as they appear in history?), that would be super groovy, if Brian wanted to swing that, and it's not too much extra work for him.

Thanks again for all you're doing Brian, this is monumental historical stuff !!!

[MrTibbs]

Yes a big thank you to Brian for a) almost finishing this one off and b) contemplating the new one. I’ve been quite quiet the last few weeks (first wife then me with Covid and only just feeling myself again today) it I love that we have this project here and can’t wait to see the next one

I escaped it for nearly two years Lonnie then because I'm a nurse working in the environment of people with it caught it in January of this year. If I didn't get tested weekly as a nurse I wouldn't have known I had it, I didn't have any symptoms at all luckily but I have seen others like yourself get thoroughly miserable with it (and worse) so I'm glad you and your wife have come through it ok and are feeling better now.

At the end of this thread when all the remaining charts and 'bridging' charts are posted I'm gonna particularly thank all my supporters here and especially those who have helped to contribute to the success of the thread. Like I said earlier this was never a one man show and it would never have come to fruition without many guys here assisting, advising, correcting, and supporting. The end result is actually a team effort.

[MrTibbs]

In the meantime we are into the last month of actual UAC as we reach December 1959.

Greetings Pop Pickers

Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending December 5th 1959

Here are all '' the uppers, the downers, the just hanging 'arounders

The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending December 5th 1959								NME	MM	DISC	RM	Total
Last	This		The Sound Survey					75	35	45	60	Points
Week	Week		The Top 30 Singles Chart				BBC			TOP	30	Scored
2	1	What Do You Want To Make Those Eyes At Me For - Emile Ford and The Checkmates					1	2	1	1	2	6315
8	2	What Do You Want - Adam Faith					2	1	3	3	1	6290
1	3	Travellin' Light - Cliff Richard					3	3	2	2	3	6100
5	4	Oh Carol - Neil Sedaka					4	4	4	4	4	5805
3	5	Red River Rock - Johnny and The Hurricanes					5	5	5	5	5	5590
4	6	Mack The Knife - Bobby Darin					6	6	6	6	6	5375
7	7	Put Your Head On My Shoulder - Paul Anka					7=	7	7	9	8	5010
13	8	Seven Little Girls Sitting In The Back Seat - The Avons					7=	8	8	8	7	5005
6	9	('Til) I Kissed You - The Everly Brothers					9	9	9	11	10	4580
10	10	Teen Beat - Sandy Nelson					11	10	11	13	8	4465
9	11	Sea Of Love - Marty Wilde					10	11	10	7	13	4395
15	12	Snow Coach - Russ Conway					12	12	17	12	11	3970
24	13	Rawhide - Frankie Laine					13	13	13	19	14	3540
12	14	Mr Blue - Mike Preston					14	25	12	10	20	2720
22	15	Piano Party - Winifred Atwell					16	14	16		19	2520
16	16	Poison Ivy - The Coasters					15	15	15	18		2345
18	17	One More Sunrise (Morgen) - Dickie Valentine					17=	16	20	15		2230
25	18	Little White Bull - Tommy Steele					17=	18			12	2115
29	19	Deck Of Cards - Wink Martindale					19	22	14	17		1900
21	20	More And More Party Pops - Russ Conway					20	28	18		15	1640
11	21	Makin' Love - Floyd Robinson						21		14		1515
30	22	Heartaches By The Number - Guy Mitchell						30		20	17	1410
14	23	Broken-Hearted Melody - Sarah Vaughan						17				1050
28	24	Little Donkey - The Beverley Sisters						24	19			945
NEW	25	San Miguel - Lonnie Donegan						19				900
NEW	25	Bad Boy - Marty Wilde									16	900
NEW	27	Among My Souvenirs - Connie Francis						20				825
NEW	28	Ivy Will Cling - Arnold Strang									18	780
17	29	The Three Bells - The Browns						30		16		750
27	30	Little Donkey - Gracie Fields						23				600
		I'll Never Fall In Love Again - Johnnie Ray						26				375
19		High Hopes - Frank Sinatra						26				375
		San Miguel - The Kingston Trio						29				150
		If You Were The Only Boy In The World - Stevie Marsh						30				75
20		Living Doll - Cliff Richard
23		Seven Little Girls Sitting In The Back Seat - Paul Evans and The Curls
26		The Best Of Everything - Johnny Mathis