Originally posted by brian05
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The Ultimate Averaged Chart - The BBC Chart Re-Imagined
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30 I'll Never Fall In Love Again - Johnny Ray
Is this the same song as Bobbie Gentry's 1969 hit?
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1 What Do You Want - Adam Faith
2 What Do You Want To Make Those Eyes At Me For - Emile Ford and The Checkmates
Is this the first time that a song title has been included as part of another song?
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Yes, earlier in the thread we identified 11 NME joint number ones.
Disc and RM each have a record at 7 that is nowhere on the other.
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Originally posted by Robbie View PostIt's the famous 'What Do You Want...' dead heat on the NME chart. Elsewhere the clear winner is Adam Faith.
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It's the famous 'What Do You Want...' dead heat on the NME chart. Elsewhere the clear winner is Adam Faith.
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Greetings Pop Pickers
Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending December 19th 1959
Here are all '' the uppers, the downers, the just hanging 'arounders
The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending December 19th 1959 NME MM DISC RM Total Last This The Sound Survey 75 35 45 60 Points Week Week The Top 30 Singles Chart BBC TOP 30 Scored 1 1 What Do You Want - Adam Faith 1 1 1 1 1 6450 2 2 What Do You Want To Make Those Eyes At Me For - Emile Ford and The Checkmates 2 1 2 2 2 6310 4 3 Oh Carol - Neil Sedaka 3 3 3 3 3 6020 3 4 Travellin' Light - Cliff Richard 4 5 4 4 4 5730 5 5 Seven Little Girls Sitting In The Back Seat - The Avons 5 4 6 5 5 5630 6 6 Red River Rock - Johnny and The Hurricanes 6 6 5 6 6 5410 10 7 Snow Coach - Russ Conway 7 10 12 8 9 4595 12 8 Rawhide - Frankie Laine 8= 8 8 16 14 4225 8 9 Put Your Head On My Shoulder - Paul Anka 8= 7 9 12 18 4205 13 10 Little White Bull - Tommy Steele 11 12 13 13 11 4065 11 11 Among My Souvenirs - Connie Francis 10 13 7 18 10 4035 18 12 More And More Party Pops - Russ Conway 13 8 20 15 11 4030 7 13 Mack The Knife - Bobby Darin 12 16 11 10 16 3670 9 14 Teen Beat - Sandy Nelson 15 21 19 9 8 3540 23 15 Some Kind-a Earthquake - Duane Eddy 14 17 10 7 3225 19 16 Piano Party - Winifred Atwell 18 10 19 15 3075 16 17 Little Donkey - The Beverley Sisters 16 15 17 7 2770 NEW 18 Jingle Bell Rock - Max Bygraves 17 14 15 14 2600 21 19 Deck Of Cards - Wink Martindale 18 20 19 2190 20 20 Bad Boy - Marty Wilde 20 14 20 2080 NEW 21 Johnny Staccato Theme - Elmer Bernstein 19= 19 13 1980 NEW 22 Be My Guest - Fats Domino 22 17 1515 17 23 Mr Blue - Mike Preston 19= 25 11 1350 15 24 ('Til) I Kissed You - The Everly Brothers 28 18 17 1310 27 25 San Miguel - Lonnie Donegan 23 600 RE 26 Little Donkey - Gracie Fields 24 525 28 27 Living Doll - Cliff Richard 16 525 NEW 28 Mary's Boy Child - Nina and Frederick 26 375 RE 29 Heartaches By The Number - Guy Mitchell 27 300 NEW 30 We Got Love - Alma Cogan 29 150 30 30 I'll Never Fall In Love Again - Johnny Ray 29 150 14 Sea Of Love - Marty Wilde 22 Poison Ivy - The Coasters 24 Seven Little Girls Sitting In The Back Seat - Paul Evans and The Curls 25 One More Sunrise (Morgen) - Dickie Valentine 26 The Three Bells - The Three Browns 28 Makin' Love - Floyd Robinson
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'I'll Never Fall In Love' will be Johnnie Ray's last chart entry. It's also one of his best singles. The track was sampled by Portishead in 1994 on the track 'Biscuit', from the album 'Dummy'.
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Originally posted by Splodj View PostAccording to Discogs 'Ivy Will Cling' by Arnold Stang was the B-side, so I wonder if it was flipped.
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It's poignant that three of the most prominent male vocalists throughout the 1950's Frankie Laine, Guy Mitchell and Johnnie Ray all enjoy their very last Top 30 hit each will have at the very end of the decade and in the last month.
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Greetings Pop Pickers
Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending December 12th 1959
Here are all '' the uppers, the downers, the just hanging 'arounders
The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending December 12th 1959 NME MM DISC RM Total Last This The Sound Survey 75 35 45 60 Points Week Week The Top 30 Singles Chart BBC TOP 30 Scored 2 1 What Do You Want - Adam Faith 1 1 1 2 1 6405 1 2 What Do You Want To MAKE Those Eyes At Me For - Emile Ford and The Checkmates 2 2 2 1 2 6280 3 3 Travellin' Light - Cliff Richard 3= 3 4 3 4 5925 4 4 Oh Carol - Neil Sedaka 3= 4 3 4 3 5900 8 5 Seven Little Girls Sitting In The Back Seat - The Avons 5 5 5 5 5 5590 5 6 Red River Rock - Johnny and The Hurricanes 6 6 6 6 6 5375 6 7 Mack The Knife - Bobby Darin 7 7 7 8 8 5055 7 8 Put Your Head On My Shoulder - Paul Anka 8= 7 8 12 9 4780 10 9 Teen Beat - Sandy Nelson 8= 9 10 10 7 4770 12 10 Snow Coach - Russ Conway 10 9 12 11 10 4475 27 11 Among My Souvenirs - Connie Francis 11 12 9 19 12 3875 13 12 Rawhide - Frankie Laine 12 13 13 17 11 3810 18 13 Little White Bull - Tommy Steele 15 11 17 20 13 3565 11 14 Sea Of Love - Marty Wilde 14 20 15 9 16 3275 9 15 ('Til) I Kissed You - The Everly Brothers 17 19 16 14 17 3030 24 16 Little Donkey - The Beverley Sisters 13 14 11 13 2785 14 17 Mr Blue - Mike Preston 16 17 18 7 2585 20 18 More And More Party Pops - Russ Conway 18= 15 20 15 2545 15 19 Piano Party - Winifred Atwell 20 16 18 20 2370 25 20 Bad Boy - Marty Wilde 18 19 19 2115 19 21 Deck Of Cards - Wink Martindale 18= 24 14 15 1840 16 22 Poison Ivy - The Coasters 23 16 1275 NEW 23 Some Kind-a Earthquake - Duane Eddy 14 1020 RE 24 Seven Little Girls Sitting In The Back Seat - Paul Evans and The Curls 18 780 17 25 One More Sunrise (Morgen) - Dickie Valentine 21 750 29 26 The Three Bells - The Browns 22 675 25 27 San Miguel - Lonnie Donegan 25 450 RE 28 Living Doll - Cliff Richard 26 375 21 28 Makin' Love - Floyd Robinson 26 375 NEW 30 I'll Never Fall In Love Again - Johnnie Ray 28 225 If You Were The Only Boy In The World - Stevie Marsh 29 150 Mary's Boy Child - Harry Belafonte 30 75 30 Little Donkey - Gracie Fields 30 75 22 Heartaches By The Number - Guy Mitchell 23 Broken-Hearted Melody - Sarah Vaughan 28 Ivy Will Cling - Arnold Strang
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I believe it would be consistent to include 21s as it would be applied equally to any chart when they revealed it, and last time was applicable to Disc, but that is just my opinion and I can understand the other point of view.
According to Discogs 'Ivy Will Cling' by Arnold Stang was the B-side, so I wonder if it was flipped.
This is an interesting week at the top because the MM and Disc number one prevails, despite their lower weighting. Looks like.we are in for an epic battle between two songs, the title of one being the first four words of the other!
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Originally posted by MrTibbs View Post
But. Just because the omission demonstrated that RM had two records downgraded to #21 doesn't mean they should be included for knowing this position. It would be unfair to Disc and MM to amend the chart rule for one week to accommodate this.All three need to be treated equally. No record below 20 was considered for them at this time as #21 didnt exist for RM, MM, Disc at this time so consistency is important.
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Originally posted by braindeadpj View Post
Thanks Splodj for confirming the originally posted number 20 positions. Assigning them both a position of 21 for RM would have placed Little Donkey on 1200 at 23 (instead of 28) and Heartaches By The Number on 975 at 25 (instead of 30).
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The performer of "Ivy Will Cling" is Arnold Stang. I couldn't find a copy of the Record Mirror chart, but the record label had his name spelled correctly, at least. He was most famous for voicing Top Cat on the cartoon of the same name.
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Originally posted by Splodj View Post
Two new entries tied for the original number 20: Heartaches By The Number (Guy Mitchell) and Little Donkey (Beverly Sisters). The former is now 17, as you can see, and the latter fell away then reappeared on their 26-Dec chart.
Personally I think that when a (what turns out to be) 21 position has been published it might as well be included in a composite, as all information is useful. But we had this discussion last time it happened, and of course it doesn't make much difference.
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Originally posted by RokinRobinOfLocksley View Post
I am all for posting ALL chart positions each week, however many there are. This is history !! We need to see each record that appeared on any dealer chart, and give it its historical recognition. There is precedent for this already. If yall will recall, the BMRB album chart varied pretty much each week over 1970: first as a Top 20, but then total chaos, ha: as a Top 58+/-, then 47, 59, 60+/-, then 70+/-, back down to a 57+/-, before settling on a Top 50 in Jan 1971. Eventually expanding more in the years to come.
But I do appreciate those who prefer a nice and tidy fixed number of positions each week. So for those that prefer a constant Top 50 (or whatever) each week, just pretend that's what you're looking at, ha. Lop off the lower positions in your mind, or, perhaps Brian can just separate the Top 50 from the all lower positions, a 2 part chart. This will satisfy everyone's needs, and keep all of history alive.
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Originally posted by braindeadpj View PostJust wondered what track was originally at 20 in the published RM chart for November 28th
Personally I think that when a (what turns out to be) 21 position has been published it might as well be included in a composite, as all information is useful. But we had this discussion last time it happened, and of course it doesn't make much difference.
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As Robin says, it may be best to list all of the records. The readers can edit the listings as they see fit if they want to make it a specific number but you'll be assigning a position to records that others may not have known existed.
I'd rank the records as you calculate them rather than using the RM chart and building off that.
I look forward to this new project/expansion of a prior project (and agree that the old thread should be kept) and completely understand that it will take time to get the data as things are currently.
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Just wondered what track was originally at 20 in the published RM chart for November 28th (as it would've been used for the BBC chart calculations though it doesn't appear to be affecting the results as adjusting the known numbers gives the same result)?
If the BBC had taken into account Tean Beat - Sandy Nelson, then it would have been:
10 Teen Beat - Sandy Nelson
11 Mr. Blue - Mike Preston
12 Makin' Love - Floyd Robinson
13 Seven Little Girls Sitting In The Back Seat - The Avons
14 Broken- Hearted Melody - Sarah Vaughan
15 Snow Coach - Russ Conway
15 The Three Bells - The Browns
17 Poison Ivy - The Coasters
18 One More Sunrise (Morgen) - Dickie Valentine
19 More And More Party Pops - Russ Conway
19 Deck Of Cards - Wink Martindale
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Oh lots more interesting stuff from Robin in there to add to what I already have from you other guys to help me shape these RM historical dealer charts. This is shaping up nicely folks. Thanks again.
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Wow, I'm getting jazzed for these upcoming RM expanded charts 1954-61, Brian. What you'll be doing is basically what the book Hits That Missed should have done, recompiled the whole RM charts, not just the uncharted bubblers, though that was a most excellent book in itself.
I think we've discussed this before: should you (a) recompile the entire RM charts top to bottom, or (b) do all your compiling, but then keep the published RM chart as is for the upper part, and then add all the lower positions afterwards. Just something to think about.
I am all for posting ALL chart positions each week, however many there are. This is history !! We need to see each record that appeared on any dealer chart, and give it its historical recognition. There is precedent for this already. If yall will recall, the BMRB album chart varied pretty much each week over 1970: first as a Top 20, but then total chaos, ha: as a Top 58+/-, then 47, 59, 60+/-, then 70+/-, back down to a 57+/-, before settling on a Top 50 in Jan 1971. Eventually expanding more in the years to come.
But I do appreciate those who prefer a nice and tidy fixed number of positions each week. So for those that prefer a constant Top 50 (or whatever) each week, just pretend that's what you're looking at, ha. Lop off the lower positions in your mind, or, perhaps Brian can just separate the Top 50 from the all lower positions, a 2 part chart. This will satisfy everyone's needs, and keep all of history alive.
From the little work I did on this years ago, there will be many ties at the low end. If Brian is dealing with 60 dealer charts, it's possible that 1/4 of the charts or more could have 1 record each that did not appear on any of the other charts. Thus these records will appear at the bottom of Brian's compiled RM chart, tied with many others in the same situation. But again, this is history, it needs to be recorded.
Also glad that Brian will redo the 1954/55 charts as well. Expand expand expand !!
I am also in favor of KEEPING the original RM 54/55 thread, and letting Brian create a new thread for 54/61. Even though Brian is producing better expanded charts, there are so many important comments and questions and history in that original thread that will be lost. Do any of you think it's OK to delete an old Alan Smith or Dave Taylor thread? Absolutely not, these comments and knowledge provided by so many others is vital to our chart understandings. It's better to re-title the old thread to distinguish it from the upcoming new thread than to delete it from our history.
As whether to add NME positions in an extra side column (and possibly others as they appear in history?), that would be super groovy, if Brian wanted to swing that, and it's not too much extra work for him.
Thanks again for all you're doing Brian, this is monumental historical stuff !!!
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Originally posted by kingofskiffle View Post
Yes a big thank you to Brian for a) almost finishing this one off and b) contemplating the new one. I’ve been quite quiet the last few weeks (first wife then me with Covid and only just feeling myself again today) it I love that we have this project here and can’t wait to see the next one
At the end of this thread when all the remaining charts and 'bridging' charts are posted I'm gonna particularly thank all my supporters here and especially those who have helped to contribute to the success of the thread. Like I said earlier this was never a one man show and it would never have come to fruition without many guys here assisting, advising, correcting, and supporting. The end result is actually a team effort.
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In the meantime we are into the last month of actual UAC as we reach December 1959.
Greetings Pop Pickers
Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending December 5th 1959
Here are all '' the uppers, the downers, the just hanging 'arounders
The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending December 5th 1959 NME MM DISC RM Total Last This The Sound Survey 75 35 45 60 Points Week Week The Top 30 Singles Chart BBC TOP 30 Scored 2 1 What Do You Want To Make Those Eyes At Me For - Emile Ford and The Checkmates 1 2 1 1 2 6315 8 2 What Do You Want - Adam Faith 2 1 3 3 1 6290 1 3 Travellin' Light - Cliff Richard 3 3 2 2 3 6100 5 4 Oh Carol - Neil Sedaka 4 4 4 4 4 5805 3 5 Red River Rock - Johnny and The Hurricanes 5 5 5 5 5 5590 4 6 Mack The Knife - Bobby Darin 6 6 6 6 6 5375 7 7 Put Your Head On My Shoulder - Paul Anka 7= 7 7 9 8 5010 13 8 Seven Little Girls Sitting In The Back Seat - The Avons 7= 8 8 8 7 5005 6 9 ('Til) I Kissed You - The Everly Brothers 9 9 9 11 10 4580 10 10 Teen Beat - Sandy Nelson 11 10 11 13 8 4465 9 11 Sea Of Love - Marty Wilde 10 11 10 7 13 4395 15 12 Snow Coach - Russ Conway 12 12 17 12 11 3970 24 13 Rawhide - Frankie Laine 13 13 13 19 14 3540 12 14 Mr Blue - Mike Preston 14 25 12 10 20 2720 22 15 Piano Party - Winifred Atwell 16 14 16 19 2520 16 16 Poison Ivy - The Coasters 15 15 15 18 2345 18 17 One More Sunrise (Morgen) - Dickie Valentine 17= 16 20 15 2230 25 18 Little White Bull - Tommy Steele 17= 18 12 2115 29 19 Deck Of Cards - Wink Martindale 19 22 14 17 1900 21 20 More And More Party Pops - Russ Conway 20 28 18 15 1640 11 21 Makin' Love - Floyd Robinson 21 14 1515 30 22 Heartaches By The Number - Guy Mitchell 30 20 17 1410 14 23 Broken-Hearted Melody - Sarah Vaughan 17 1050 28 24 Little Donkey - The Beverley Sisters 24 19 945 NEW 25 San Miguel - Lonnie Donegan 19 900 NEW 25 Bad Boy - Marty Wilde 16 900 NEW 27 Among My Souvenirs - Connie Francis 20 825 NEW 28 Ivy Will Cling - Arnold Strang 18 780 17 29 The Three Bells - The Browns 30 16 750 27 30 Little Donkey - Gracie Fields 23 600 I'll Never Fall In Love Again - Johnnie Ray 26 375 19 High Hopes - Frank Sinatra 26 375 San Miguel - The Kingston Trio 29 150 If You Were The Only Boy In The World - Stevie Marsh 30 75 20 Living Doll - Cliff Richard 23 Seven Little Girls Sitting In The Back Seat - Paul Evans and The Curls 26 The Best Of Everything - Johnny Mathis
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