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The Ultimate Averaged Chart - The BBC Chart Re-Imagined

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  • braindeadpj
    replied
    Originally posted by brian05 View Post
    1 What Do You Want - Adam Faith
    2 What Do You Want To Make Those Eyes At Me For - Emile Ford and The Checkmates

    Is this the first time that a song title has been included as part of another song?
    I wonder how many singles were returned because they bought the wrong one due to the similarity with the song title? Presumably that would negate a sale?

    Leave a comment:


  • MrTibbs
    replied
    Originally posted by brian05 View Post
    30 I'll Never Fall In Love Again - Johnny Ray

    Is this the same song as Bobbie Gentry's 1969 hit?
    No Brian completely different song. The Bobbie Gentry song was a Bacharach/David composition from the musical Promises Promises.

    Leave a comment:


  • brian05
    replied
    30 I'll Never Fall In Love Again - Johnny Ray

    Is this the same song as Bobbie Gentry's 1969 hit?

    Leave a comment:


  • brian05
    replied
    1 What Do You Want - Adam Faith
    2 What Do You Want To Make Those Eyes At Me For - Emile Ford and The Checkmates

    Is this the first time that a song title has been included as part of another song?

    Leave a comment:


  • Splodj
    replied
    Yes, earlier in the thread we identified 11 NME joint number ones.

    Disc and RM each have a record at 7 that is nowhere on the other.

    Leave a comment:


  • MrTibbs
    replied
    Originally posted by Robbie View Post
    It's the famous 'What Do You Want...' dead heat on the NME chart. Elsewhere the clear winner is Adam Faith.
    Yeah the way these two titles swopped and counter swopped the #1 position on the various charts suggests they were pretty close sales wise for weeks.

    Leave a comment:


  • Robbie
    replied
    It's the famous 'What Do You Want...' dead heat on the NME chart. Elsewhere the clear winner is Adam Faith.

    Leave a comment:


  • MrTibbs
    replied
    Greetings Pop Pickers

    ​​​​Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending December 19th 1959

    Here are all '' the uppers, the downers, the just hanging 'arounders

    The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending December 19th 1959 NME MM DISC RM Total
    Last This The Sound Survey 75 35 45 60 Points
    Week Week The Top 30 Singles Chart BBC TOP 30 Scored
    1 1 What Do You Want - Adam Faith 1 1 1 1 1 6450
    2 2 What Do You Want To Make Those Eyes At Me For - Emile Ford and The Checkmates 2 1 2 2 2 6310
    4 3 Oh Carol - Neil Sedaka 3 3 3 3 3 6020
    3 4 Travellin' Light - Cliff Richard 4 5 4 4 4 5730
    5 5 Seven Little Girls Sitting In The Back Seat - The Avons 5 4 6 5 5 5630
    6 6 Red River Rock - Johnny and The Hurricanes 6 6 5 6 6 5410
    10 7 Snow Coach - Russ Conway 7 10 12 8 9 4595
    12 8 Rawhide - Frankie Laine 8= 8 8 16 14 4225
    8 9 Put Your Head On My Shoulder - Paul Anka 8= 7 9 12 18 4205
    13 10 Little White Bull - Tommy Steele 11 12 13 13 11 4065
    11 11 Among My Souvenirs - Connie Francis 10 13 7 18 10 4035
    18 12 More And More Party Pops - Russ Conway 13 8 20 15 11 4030
    7 13 Mack The Knife - Bobby Darin 12 16 11 10 16 3670
    9 14 Teen Beat - Sandy Nelson 15 21 19 9 8 3540
    23 15 Some Kind-a Earthquake - Duane Eddy 14 17 10 7 3225
    19 16 Piano Party - Winifred Atwell 18 10 19 15 3075
    16 17 Little Donkey - The Beverley Sisters 16 15 17 7 2770
    NEW 18 Jingle Bell Rock - Max Bygraves 17 14 15 14 2600
    21 19 Deck Of Cards - Wink Martindale 18 20 19 2190
    20 20 Bad Boy - Marty Wilde 20 14 20 2080
    NEW 21 Johnny Staccato Theme - Elmer Bernstein 19= 19 13 1980
    NEW 22 Be My Guest - Fats Domino 22 17 1515
    17 23 Mr Blue - Mike Preston 19= 25 11 1350
    15 24 ('Til) I Kissed You - The Everly Brothers 28 18 17 1310
    27 25 San Miguel - Lonnie Donegan 23 600
    RE 26 Little Donkey - Gracie Fields 24 525
    28 27 Living Doll - Cliff Richard 16 525
    NEW 28 Mary's Boy Child - Nina and Frederick 26 375
    RE 29 Heartaches By The Number - Guy Mitchell 27 300
    NEW 30 We Got Love - Alma Cogan 29 150
    30 30 I'll Never Fall In Love Again - Johnny Ray 29 150
    14 Sea Of Love - Marty Wilde
    22 Poison Ivy - The Coasters
    24 Seven Little Girls Sitting In The Back Seat - Paul Evans and The Curls
    25 One More Sunrise (Morgen) - Dickie Valentine
    26 The Three Bells - The Three Browns
    28 Makin' Love - Floyd Robinson

    Leave a comment:


  • Robbie
    replied
    'I'll Never Fall In Love' will be Johnnie Ray's last chart entry. It's also one of his best singles. The track was sampled by Portishead in 1994 on the track 'Biscuit', from the album 'Dummy'.

    Leave a comment:


  • Blondini
    replied
    Originally posted by Splodj View Post
    According to Discogs 'Ivy Will Cling' by Arnold Stang was the B-side, so I wonder if it was flipped.
    his version (featuring The Sunshine Kids) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=StCQGn5quWw is better than the cloying version by Bernard Bresslaw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UnSZaCskFpA

    Leave a comment:


  • MrTibbs
    replied
    It's poignant that three of the most prominent male vocalists throughout the 1950's Frankie Laine, Guy Mitchell and Johnnie Ray all enjoy their very last Top 30 hit each will have at the very end of the decade and in the last month.

    Leave a comment:


  • MrTibbs
    replied
    Greetings Pop Pickers

    ​​​​Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending December 12th 1959

    Here are all '' the uppers, the downers, the just hanging 'arounders

    The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending December 12th 1959 NME MM DISC RM Total
    Last This The Sound Survey 75 35 45 60 Points
    Week Week The Top 30 Singles Chart BBC TOP 30 Scored
    2 1 What Do You Want - Adam Faith 1 1 1 2 1 6405
    1 2 What Do You Want To MAKE Those Eyes At Me For - Emile Ford and The Checkmates 2 2 2 1 2 6280
    3 3 Travellin' Light - Cliff Richard 3= 3 4 3 4 5925
    4 4 Oh Carol - Neil Sedaka 3= 4 3 4 3 5900
    8 5 Seven Little Girls Sitting In The Back Seat - The Avons 5 5 5 5 5 5590
    5 6 Red River Rock - Johnny and The Hurricanes 6 6 6 6 6 5375
    6 7 Mack The Knife - Bobby Darin 7 7 7 8 8 5055
    7 8 Put Your Head On My Shoulder - Paul Anka 8= 7 8 12 9 4780
    10 9 Teen Beat - Sandy Nelson 8= 9 10 10 7 4770
    12 10 Snow Coach - Russ Conway 10 9 12 11 10 4475
    27 11 Among My Souvenirs - Connie Francis 11 12 9 19 12 3875
    13 12 Rawhide - Frankie Laine 12 13 13 17 11 3810
    18 13 Little White Bull - Tommy Steele 15 11 17 20 13 3565
    11 14 Sea Of Love - Marty Wilde 14 20 15 9 16 3275
    9 15 ('Til) I Kissed You - The Everly Brothers 17 19 16 14 17 3030
    24 16 Little Donkey - The Beverley Sisters 13 14 11 13 2785
    14 17 Mr Blue - Mike Preston 16 17 18 7 2585
    20 18 More And More Party Pops - Russ Conway 18= 15 20 15 2545
    15 19 Piano Party - Winifred Atwell 20 16 18 20 2370
    25 20 Bad Boy - Marty Wilde 18 19 19 2115
    19 21 Deck Of Cards - Wink Martindale 18= 24 14 15 1840
    16 22 Poison Ivy - The Coasters 23 16 1275
    NEW 23 Some Kind-a Earthquake - Duane Eddy 14 1020
    RE 24 Seven Little Girls Sitting In The Back Seat - Paul Evans and The Curls 18 780
    17 25 One More Sunrise (Morgen) - Dickie Valentine 21 750
    29 26 The Three Bells - The Browns 22 675
    25 27 San Miguel - Lonnie Donegan 25 450
    RE 28 Living Doll - Cliff Richard 26 375
    21 28 Makin' Love - Floyd Robinson 26 375
    NEW 30 I'll Never Fall In Love Again - Johnnie Ray 28 225
    If You Were The Only Boy In The World - Stevie Marsh 29 150
    Mary's Boy Child - Harry Belafonte 30 75
    30 Little Donkey - Gracie Fields 30 75
    22 Heartaches By The Number - Guy Mitchell
    23 Broken-Hearted Melody - Sarah Vaughan
    28 Ivy Will Cling - Arnold Strang

    Leave a comment:


  • Splodj
    replied
    I believe it would be consistent to include 21s as it would be applied equally to any chart when they revealed it, and last time was applicable to Disc, but that is just my opinion and I can understand the other point of view.

    According to Discogs 'Ivy Will Cling' by Arnold Stang was the B-side, so I wonder if it was flipped.

    This is an interesting week at the top because the MM and Disc number one prevails, despite their lower weighting. Looks like.we are in for an epic battle between two songs, the title of one being the first four words of the other!

    Leave a comment:


  • braindeadpj
    replied
    Originally posted by MrTibbs View Post

    But. Just because the omission demonstrated that RM had two records downgraded to #21 doesn't mean they should be included for knowing this position. It would be unfair to Disc and MM to amend the chart rule for one week to accommodate this.All three need to be treated equally. No record below 20 was considered for them at this time as #21 didnt exist for RM, MM, Disc at this time so consistency is important.
    Agreed. I was just providing an indication of what it would've have looked like if it had been included. I don't think you should include any outliers that become apparent due to publishing errors. Consistency is important as you state.

    Leave a comment:


  • MrTibbs
    replied
    Originally posted by braindeadpj View Post

    Thanks Splodj for confirming the originally posted number 20 positions. Assigning them both a position of 21 for RM would have placed Little Donkey on 1200 at 23 (instead of 28) and Heartaches By The Number on 975 at 25 (instead of 30).
    But. Just because the omission demonstrated that RM had two records downgraded to #21 doesn't mean they should be included for knowing this position. It would be unfair to Disc and MM to amend the chart rule for one week to accommodate this.All three need to be treated equally. No record below 20 was considered for them at this time as #21 didnt exist for RM, MM, Disc and consistency is important.

    Leave a comment:


  • setg1
    replied
    The performer of "Ivy Will Cling" is Arnold Stang. I couldn't find a copy of the Record Mirror chart, but the record label had his name spelled correctly, at least. He was most famous for voicing Top Cat on the cartoon of the same name.

    Leave a comment:


  • braindeadpj
    replied
    Originally posted by Splodj View Post

    Two new entries tied for the original number 20: Heartaches By The Number (Guy Mitchell) and Little Donkey (Beverly Sisters). The former is now 17, as you can see, and the latter fell away then reappeared on their 26-Dec chart.

    Personally I think that when a (what turns out to be) 21 position has been published it might as well be included in a composite, as all information is useful. But we had this discussion last time it happened, and of course it doesn't make much difference.
    Thanks Splodj for confirming the originally posted number 20 positions. Assigning them both a position of 21 for RM would have placed Little Donkey on 1200 at 23 (instead of 28) and Heartaches By The Number on 975 at 25 (instead of 30).

    Leave a comment:


  • Blondini
    replied
    Originally posted by RokinRobinOfLocksley View Post

    I am all for posting ALL chart positions each week, however many there are. This is history !! We need to see each record that appeared on any dealer chart, and give it its historical recognition. There is precedent for this already. If yall will recall, the BMRB album chart varied pretty much each week over 1970: first as a Top 20, but then total chaos, ha: as a Top 58+/-, then 47, 59, 60+/-, then 70+/-, back down to a 57+/-, before settling on a Top 50 in Jan 1971. Eventually expanding more in the years to come.

    But I do appreciate those who prefer a nice and tidy fixed number of positions each week. So for those that prefer a constant Top 50 (or whatever) each week, just pretend that's what you're looking at, ha. Lop off the lower positions in your mind, or, perhaps Brian can just separate the Top 50 from the all lower positions, a 2 part chart. This will satisfy everyone's needs, and keep all of history alive.

    I'd agree with this.

    Leave a comment:


  • Splodj
    replied
    Originally posted by braindeadpj View Post
    Just wondered what track was originally at 20 in the published RM chart for November 28th
    Two new entries tied for the original number 20: Heartaches By The Number (Guy Mitchell) and Little Donkey (Beverly Sisters). The former is now 17, as you can see, and the latter fell away then reappeared on their 26-Dec chart.

    Personally I think that when a (what turns out to be) 21 position has been published it might as well be included in a composite, as all information is useful. But we had this discussion last time it happened, and of course it doesn't make much difference.

    Leave a comment:


  • braindeadpj
    replied
    As Robin says, it may be best to list all of the records. The readers can edit the listings as they see fit if they want to make it a specific number but you'll be assigning a position to records that others may not have known existed.
    I'd rank the records as you calculate them rather than using the RM chart and building off that.
    I look forward to this new project/expansion of a prior project (and agree that the old thread should be kept) and completely understand that it will take time to get the data as things are currently.

    Leave a comment:


  • braindeadpj
    replied
    Just wondered what track was originally at 20 in the published RM chart for November 28th (as it would've been used for the BBC chart calculations though it doesn't appear to be affecting the results as adjusting the known numbers gives the same result)?

    If the BBC had taken into account Tean Beat - Sandy Nelson, then it would have been:
    10 Teen Beat - Sandy Nelson
    11 Mr. Blue - Mike Preston
    12 Makin' Love - Floyd Robinson
    13 Seven Little Girls Sitting In The Back Seat - The Avons
    14 Broken- Hearted Melody - Sarah Vaughan
    15 Snow Coach - Russ Conway
    15 The Three Bells - The Browns
    17 Poison Ivy - The Coasters
    18 One More Sunrise (Morgen) - Dickie Valentine
    19 More And More Party Pops - Russ Conway
    19 Deck Of Cards - Wink Martindale



    Leave a comment:


  • MrTibbs
    replied
    Oh lots more interesting stuff from Robin in there to add to what I already have from you other guys to help me shape these RM historical dealer charts. This is shaping up nicely folks. Thanks again.

    Leave a comment:


  • RokinRobinOfLocksley
    replied
    Wow, I'm getting jazzed for these upcoming RM expanded charts 1954-61, Brian. What you'll be doing is basically what the book Hits That Missed should have done, recompiled the whole RM charts, not just the uncharted bubblers, though that was a most excellent book in itself.

    I think we've discussed this before: should you (a) recompile the entire RM charts top to bottom, or (b) do all your compiling, but then keep the published RM chart as is for the upper part, and then add all the lower positions afterwards. Just something to think about.

    I am all for posting ALL chart positions each week, however many there are. This is history !! We need to see each record that appeared on any dealer chart, and give it its historical recognition. There is precedent for this already. If yall will recall, the BMRB album chart varied pretty much each week over 1970: first as a Top 20, but then total chaos, ha: as a Top 58+/-, then 47, 59, 60+/-, then 70+/-, back down to a 57+/-, before settling on a Top 50 in Jan 1971. Eventually expanding more in the years to come.

    But I do appreciate those who prefer a nice and tidy fixed number of positions each week. So for those that prefer a constant Top 50 (or whatever) each week, just pretend that's what you're looking at, ha. Lop off the lower positions in your mind, or, perhaps Brian can just separate the Top 50 from the all lower positions, a 2 part chart. This will satisfy everyone's needs, and keep all of history alive.

    From the little work I did on this years ago, there will be many ties at the low end. If Brian is dealing with 60 dealer charts, it's possible that 1/4 of the charts or more could have 1 record each that did not appear on any of the other charts. Thus these records will appear at the bottom of Brian's compiled RM chart, tied with many others in the same situation. But again, this is history, it needs to be recorded.

    Also glad that Brian will redo the 1954/55 charts as well. Expand expand expand !!

    I am also in favor of KEEPING the original RM 54/55 thread, and letting Brian create a new thread for 54/61. Even though Brian is producing better expanded charts, there are so many important comments and questions and history in that original thread that will be lost. Do any of you think it's OK to delete an old Alan Smith or Dave Taylor thread? Absolutely not, these comments and knowledge provided by so many others is vital to our chart understandings. It's better to re-title the old thread to distinguish it from the upcoming new thread than to delete it from our history.

    As whether to add NME positions in an extra side column (and possibly others as they appear in history?), that would be super groovy, if Brian wanted to swing that, and it's not too much extra work for him.

    Thanks again for all you're doing Brian, this is monumental historical stuff !!!

    Leave a comment:


  • MrTibbs
    replied
    Originally posted by kingofskiffle View Post

    Yes a big thank you to Brian for a) almost finishing this one off and b) contemplating the new one. I’ve been quite quiet the last few weeks (first wife then me with Covid and only just feeling myself again today) it I love that we have this project here and can’t wait to see the next one
    I escaped it for nearly two years Lonnie then because I'm a nurse working in the environment of people with it caught it in January of this year. If I didn't get tested weekly as a nurse I wouldn't have known I had it, I didn't have any symptoms at all luckily but I have seen others like yourself get thoroughly miserable with it (and worse) so I'm glad you and your wife have come through it ok and are feeling better now.

    At the end of this thread when all the remaining charts and 'bridging' charts are posted I'm gonna particularly thank all my supporters here and especially those who have helped to contribute to the success of the thread. Like I said earlier this was never a one man show and it would never have come to fruition without many guys here assisting, advising, correcting, and supporting. The end result is actually a team effort.

    Leave a comment:


  • MrTibbs
    replied
    In the meantime we are into the last month of actual UAC as we reach December 1959.

    Greetings Pop Pickers

    ​​​​Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending December 5th 1959

    Here are all '' the uppers, the downers, the just hanging 'arounders

    The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending December 5th 1959 NME MM DISC RM Total
    Last This The Sound Survey 75 35 45 60 Points
    Week Week The Top 30 Singles Chart BBC TOP 30 Scored
    2 1 What Do You Want To Make Those Eyes At Me For - Emile Ford and The Checkmates 1 2 1 1 2 6315
    8 2 What Do You Want - Adam Faith 2 1 3 3 1 6290
    1 3 Travellin' Light - Cliff Richard 3 3 2 2 3 6100
    5 4 Oh Carol - Neil Sedaka 4 4 4 4 4 5805
    3 5 Red River Rock - Johnny and The Hurricanes 5 5 5 5 5 5590
    4 6 Mack The Knife - Bobby Darin 6 6 6 6 6 5375
    7 7 Put Your Head On My Shoulder - Paul Anka 7= 7 7 9 8 5010
    13 8 Seven Little Girls Sitting In The Back Seat - The Avons 7= 8 8 8 7 5005
    6 9 ('Til) I Kissed You - The Everly Brothers 9 9 9 11 10 4580
    10 10 Teen Beat - Sandy Nelson 11 10 11 13 8 4465
    9 11 Sea Of Love - Marty Wilde 10 11 10 7 13 4395
    15 12 Snow Coach - Russ Conway 12 12 17 12 11 3970
    24 13 Rawhide - Frankie Laine 13 13 13 19 14 3540
    12 14 Mr Blue - Mike Preston 14 25 12 10 20 2720
    22 15 Piano Party - Winifred Atwell 16 14 16 19 2520
    16 16 Poison Ivy - The Coasters 15 15 15 18 2345
    18 17 One More Sunrise (Morgen) - Dickie Valentine 17= 16 20 15 2230
    25 18 Little White Bull - Tommy Steele 17= 18 12 2115
    29 19 Deck Of Cards - Wink Martindale 19 22 14 17 1900
    21 20 More And More Party Pops - Russ Conway 20 28 18 15 1640
    11 21 Makin' Love - Floyd Robinson 21 14 1515
    30 22 Heartaches By The Number - Guy Mitchell 30 20 17 1410
    14 23 Broken-Hearted Melody - Sarah Vaughan 17 1050
    28 24 Little Donkey - The Beverley Sisters 24 19 945
    NEW 25 San Miguel - Lonnie Donegan 19 900
    NEW 25 Bad Boy - Marty Wilde 16 900
    NEW 27 Among My Souvenirs - Connie Francis 20 825
    NEW 28 Ivy Will Cling - Arnold Strang 18 780
    17 29 The Three Bells - The Browns 30 16 750
    27 30 Little Donkey - Gracie Fields 23 600
    I'll Never Fall In Love Again - Johnnie Ray 26 375
    19 High Hopes - Frank Sinatra 26 375
    San Miguel - The Kingston Trio 29 150
    If You Were The Only Boy In The World - Stevie Marsh 30 75
    20 Living Doll - Cliff Richard
    23 Seven Little Girls Sitting In The Back Seat - Paul Evans and The Curls
    26 The Best Of Everything - Johnny Mathis

    Leave a comment:

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