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The Ultimate Averaged Chart - The BBC Chart Re-Imagined

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  • One thing this thread shows is that not all number ones are equal. There are the rock solid undisputed ones ... and then there are the others!

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    • I agree Splodj. We tend to think of number ones being so across the charts but seeing the charts lined up against each other shows just how often they actually differ.
      The Ultimate Averaged Chart. The Definitive Chart Reflecting The Sixties.

      Comment


      • Re those NME ties, and particularly the 9 ties at number 1, I wonder if NME had a policy of making ties if the points were close - not just when they were exactly the same.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Splodj View Post
          Re those NME ties, and particularly the 9 ties at number 1, I wonder if NME had a policy of making ties if the points were close - not just when they were exactly the same.
          I wouldn't think so Splodj. A practice like that would be detrimental to the credibility of the chart. I think it is more likely that NME maybe just continued to poll , say, only the top ten best selling records in its store samples so the points would be much closer together. As they gathered this info by telephone I can't see stores going through a list of 30 or 50 records.
          The Ultimate Averaged Chart. The Definitive Chart Reflecting The Sixties.

          Comment


          • Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending October 14th 1961


            The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending October 14th 1961 NME RM MM DISC RR Total
            Last This The Sound Survey Stores 80 60 110 50 30 Points
            Week Week The Top 30 Singles Chart BBC TOP 30 Scored
            1 1 Michael - The Highwaymen* 1 4 3 1 1 1 9540
            6 2 Walkin' Back To Happiness - Helen Shapiro* 2 1 1 3 3 2 9550
            5 3 Jealousy - Billy Fury 6 5 4 4 5 4 8780
            2 4 Kon-Tiki - The Shadows 5 6 7 2 6 3 8720
            13 5 Wild Wind - John Leyton 3 2 2 7 2 12 8720
            7 6 You'll Answer To Me - Cleo Laine 4 3 5 6 4 7 8620
            3 7 Wild In The Country / I Feel So Bad - Elvis Presley 7 9 6 5 9 8 7910
            14 8 Sucu Sucu - Laurie Johnson 8 7 8 9 8 13 7410
            4 9 Johnny Remember Me - John Leyton 9 13 9 8 7 5 7270
            11 10 Together - Connie Francis 10 10 10 10 10 6 7050
            8 11 Get Lost - Eden Kane 11 10 11 11 11 11 6680
            10 12 Hats Off To Larry - Del Shannon 12 8 14 12 12 9 6560
            9 13 You Don't Know - Helen Shapiro 14 18 12 14 13 10 5580
            15 14 Granada - Frank Sinatra 13 12 13 17 14 17 5410
            NEW 15 My Boomerang Won't Come Back - Charlie Drake 16 16 18 16 18 18 4670
            23 16 Bless You - Tony Orlando 17 14 19 19 19 20 4330
            16 17 Michael Row The Boat / Lumbered - Lonnie Donegan 19 23 16 15 20 16 4300
            12 18 Reach For The Stars / Climb Ev'ry Mountain - Shirley Bassey 15 20 13 16 14 4120
            17 19 Muskrat - The Everly Brothers 18 21 18 17 21 3230
            NEW 20 Who Put The Bomp - The Viscounts 18 15 24 2210
            20 21 Sea Of Heartbreak - Don Gibson 24 15 15 1840
            NEW 22 Sucu Sucu - Nina and Frederick 22 17 1560
            NEW 23 You Must Have Been A Beautiful Baby - Bobby Darin 20 15 1280
            18 24 Hard Hearted Hannah / Chilli Bom-Bom - The Temperance Seven 25 20 28 1230
            NEW 25 A Tribute To Buddy Holly - Mike Berry 20 1210
            NEW 26 Mexicali Rose - Karl Denver 17 1120
            24 27 Cupid - Sam Cooke 27 23 560
            NEW 28 Cryin' - Roy Orbison 26 29 460
            19 29 Ain't Gonna Wah For A Week - The Brook Brothers 29 22 430
            22 30 That's My Home - Mr. Acker Bilk 19 360
            * Helen most points, Highwaymen #1 most charts, both draw on chart position points 10, but Highwaymen best profile 1 1 1 , to Helen 1 1 2.
            Amor - Ben E. King 28 240
            Well I Ask You - Eden Kane 25 180
            Breakaway - The Springfields 29 160
            Wheels Cha Cha - Joe Loss 26 150
            How Many Tears - Bobby Vee 27 120
            You Don't Know What You've Got - Ral Donner 30 30
            The Ultimate Averaged Chart. The Definitive Chart Reflecting The Sixties.

            Comment


            • Here is another joint NME #1

              May 12th 1962
              Wonderful Land and Nut Rocker
              The Ultimate Averaged Chart. The Definitive Chart Reflecting The Sixties.

              Comment


              • ^
                Both instrumentals too.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Robbie View Post
                  ^
                  Both instrumentals too.
                  Yeah a rare feat and both excellent tunes too
                  The Ultimate Averaged Chart. The Definitive Chart Reflecting The Sixties.

                  Comment


                  • Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending October 21st 1961



                    The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending October 21st 1961 NME RM MM DISC RR Total
                    Last This The Sound Survey Stores 80 60 110 50 30 Points
                    Week Week The Top 30 Singles Chart BBC TOP 30 Scored
                    2 1 Walkin' Back To Happiness - Helen Shapiro 1 1 1 1 1 1 9900
                    1 2 Michael - The Highwaymen 3 3 3 2 3 2 9380
                    5 3 Wild Wind - John Leyton 2 2 2 3 2 6 9340
                    6 4 You'll Answer To Me - Cleo Laine 4 5 4 4 4 5 8800
                    8 5 Sucu Sucu - Laurie Johnson 5 6 5 6 5 13 8150
                    3 6 Jealousy - Billy Fury 6 6 7 7 6 4 8140
                    4 7 Kon-Tiki - The Shadows 7 8 8 5 8 3 8070
                    12 8 Hats Off To Larry - Del Shannon 10 9 9 9 13 7 7120
                    7 9 Wild In The Country / I Feel So Bad - Elvis Presley 11 12 10 8 12 10 6890
                    16 10 Bless You - Tony Orlando 9 10 11 10 9 11 6890
                    NEW 11 When The Girl In Your Arms Is The Girl In Your Heart / Got A Funny Feeling - Cliff Richard 8 4 6 15 7 22 6890
                    10 12 Together - Connie Francis 12 17 12 11 11 9 6120
                    11 13 Get Lost - Eden Kane 13= 13 14 13 14 12 5860
                    15 14 My Boomerang Won't Come Back - Charlie Drake 13= 16 16 14 10 17 5440
                    26 15 Mexicali Rose - Karl Denver 15 11 13 17 16 26 5120
                    9 16 Johnny Remember Me - John Leyton 16 24 15 12 15 8 5100
                    14 17 Granada - Frank Sinatra 19 17 20 18 15 3460
                    NEW 18 Hit The Road Jack - Ray Charles 17= 15 18 19 3310
                    23 19 You Must Have Been A Beautiful Baby - Bobby Darin 17= 14 18 17 2840
                    17 20 Michael Row The Boat / Lumbered - Lonnie Donegan 17 19 21 2460
                    25 21 Tribute To Buddy Holly - Mike Berry 20 26 16 30 2080
                    21 22 Sea Of Heartbreak - Don Gibson 28 20 20 19 1810
                    NEW 23 Let's Get Together - Hayley Mills 22 19 1440
                    20 24 Who Put The Bomp - The Viscounts 19 23 1200
                    19 25 Muskrat - The Everly Brothers 21 20 1130
                    13 26 You Don't Know - Helen Shapiro 25 14 990
                    22 27 Sucu Sucu - Nina and Frederick 20 29 940
                    18 28 Reach For The Stars / Climb Ev'ry Mountain - Shirley Bassey 28 16 690
                    30 29 That's My Home - Mr. Acker Bilk 18 390
                    NEW 30 The Mountain's High - Dick and Deedee 27 320
                    Got A Funny Feeling - Cliff Richard 23
                    Ain't Gonna Wash For A Week - The Brook Brothers 24 210
                    Cryin' - Roy Orbison 25 180
                    Wheels Cha Cha - Joe Loss 27 120
                    Hard Hearted Hannah / Chilli Bom-Bom - The Temperance Seven 28 90
                    Come September - Bobby Darin 30 80
                    The Ultimate Averaged Chart. The Definitive Chart Reflecting The Sixties.

                    Comment


                    • Even with split sides Cliff enters at no. 4 in NME but only no. 22 in RR.

                      My Boomerand Won't Come Back - Charlie Drake.

                      I think that should be Boomerang.

                      Comment


                      • Even though there were 200,000 advance orders and it has now reached number one, Walking Back To Happiness not did receive a Silver Disc for 250,000 sales until 4th November 1961.

                        Even though A Scottish Soldier only reached no. 19 in RR it remained in their chart for 40 weeks and it eventually received a Silver Disc on 18th November 1961 for 250,000 sales.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by MrTibbs View Post
                          The Radio Luxembourg DJ's were really good, Bob Stewart, Paul Burnett, Tony Prince, Emperor Rosco.
                          Emperor Rosco here on Radio Luxembourg in Paris ...
                          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZJ66...SSK89qRwa0zqAg

                          He has posted that this shows Derek Chinnery (I assume that is him lurking around at 1.30-40) who was there to ask Rosco to do a show for the upcoming Radio 1. Rosco agreed and recorded the show each week in that Paris studio and sent it over.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by brian05 View Post
                            Even though there were 200,000 advance orders and it has now reached number one, Walking Back To Happiness not did receive a Silver Disc for 250,000 sales until 4th November 1961.

                            Even though A Scottish Soldier only reached no. 19 in RR it remained in their chart for 40 weeks and it eventually received a Silver Disc on 18th November 1961 for 250,000 sales.
                            I suppose it maybe depended on when the record company submitted their request to Disc for certification.

                            I don't doubt Andy Stewart eventually sold that figure bit I can't believe that amount of people would actually buy it.

                            I will correct that spelling error thanks Brian.
                            The Ultimate Averaged Chart. The Definitive Chart Reflecting The Sixties.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Splodj View Post

                              Emperor Rosco here on Radio Luxembourg in Paris ...
                              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZJ66...SSK89qRwa0zqAg

                              He has posted that this shows Derek Chinnery (I assume that is him lurking around at 1.30-40) who was there to ask Rosco to do a show for the upcoming Radio 1. Rosco agreed and recorded the show each week in that Paris studio and sent it over.
                              That's a good clip thanks
                              The Ultimate Averaged Chart. The Definitive Chart Reflecting The Sixties.

                              Comment


                              • David Jacobs sometimes recorded POTP on Thursday. That explains why Chinnery dropped RM.

                                Comment


                                • That was surely a decision made for all the wrong reasons. A robust chart if taken seriously should have taken precedence. This in itself indicates the BBC did not take their own chart all that seriously.
                                  The Ultimate Averaged Chart. The Definitive Chart Reflecting The Sixties.

                                  Comment


                                  • Per my #1's and Top 10 peaks research of the 60s several years ago, RM was a very strong chart Mar 1960 - Mar 1962, it terms of its record peak positions being closest to the average of all 5 big charts of the day. Tied for 1st place with MM for fewest outliers peak to average, tied for 2nd place with the most inliers peak to average. And in 2nd place behind MM in terms of shortest distance from peak to average, across all 209 Top 10 records during the period.

                                    It's a shame that the BBC kicked them out of their average calcs in 1960. They should have tried harder to keep them in it somehow, but alas the BBC did not know at the time how good RM was...

                                    Comment


                                    • Agreed. There was an interview with Jacobs in Disc where he talked about 'recording' a POTP, which struck me as strange, so I dug further. Of course, with Freeman now doing them live they could have changed back to including RM.

                                      On the NME ties, even if the points were closer together the number one would still be the least likely to have a tie. So if there were ten ties for number 1, you would expect more for number 2, more still for number 3 and so on. So for number one I thought NME might take the attitude: 'The difference in points is not enough to indicate conclusively enough which sold the most of all, so we shall tie them." Otherwise I don't know how there could have been so many cases with exactly the same points, unless their sample size was way lower than supposed.
                                      Last edited by Splodj; Fri February 26, 2021, 02:53.

                                      Comment


                                      • Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending October 28th 1961

                                        The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending October 28th 1961 NME RM MM DISC RR Total
                                        Last This The Sound Survey Stores 80 60 110 50 30 Points
                                        Week Week The Top 30 Singles Chart BBC TOP 30 Scored
                                        1 1 Walkin' Back To Happiness - Helen Shapiro 1 1 1 1 1 1 9900
                                        3 2 Wild Wind - John Leyton 2= 3 3 2 3 2 9380
                                        11 3 When The Girl In Your Arms Is The Girl In Your Heart / Got A Funny Feeling - Cliff Richard 2= 2 2 4 2 4 9290
                                        2 4 Michael - The Highwaymen 4 7 4 3 4 3 8810
                                        4 5 You'll Answer To Me - Cleo Laine 5= 6 6 5 5 7 8380
                                        5 6 Sucu Sucu - Laurie Johnson 5= 4 5 6 6 9 8380
                                        10 7 Bless You - Tony Orlando 7 8 7 7 8 8 7760
                                        18 8 Hit The Road Jack - Ray Charles 8 5 8 8 11 19 7350
                                        6 9 Jealousy - Billy Fury 9 12 10 11 7 5 6960
                                        15 10 Mexicali Rose - Karl Denver 10 9 9 10 12 11 6940
                                        7 11 Kon-Tiki - The Shadows 11 15 15 9 9 10 6390
                                        8 12 Hats Off To Larry - Del Shannon 13 13 11 12 15 6 6280
                                        19 13 You Must Have Been A Beautiful Baby - Bobby Darin 12 10 18 13 14 16 5740
                                        14 14 My Boomerang Won't Come Back - Charlie Drake 14 16 13 16 10 15 5460
                                        9 15 Wild In The Country / I Feel So Bad - Elvis Presley 16 18 14 14 16 14 5190
                                        NEW 16 Big Bad John - Jimmy Dean 17 14 16 17 18 4450
                                        NEW 17 Take Five - Dave Brubeck 15 11 17 15 27 4320
                                        12 18 Together - Connie Francis 18 21 18 13 12 3700
                                        23 19 Let's Get Together - Hayley Mills 20 17 12 2260
                                        13 20 Get Lost - Eden Kane 19 19 17 13 2200
                                        NEW 21 The Time Has Come - Adam Faith 20 19 19 2200
                                        21 22 Tribute To Buddy Holly - Mike Berry 29 19 24 1690
                                        20 23 Michael Row The Boat / Lumbered - Lonnie Donegan 20 30 1240
                                        16 24 Johnny Remember Me - John Leyton 20 17 970
                                        22 25 Sea Of Heartbreak - Don Gibson 20 22 930
                                        17 26 Granada - Frank Sinatra 24 20 890
                                        NEW 27 You Don't Know What You've Got - Ral Donner 22 28 810
                                        24 28 Who Put The Bomp - The Viscounts 25 21 780
                                        NEW 29 Take Good Care Of My Baby - Bobby Vee 22 720
                                        26 30 You Don't Know - Helen Shapiro 27 18 710
                                        The Mountain's High - Dick and Deedee 25 480
                                        Sucu Sucu - Nina and Frederick 28 240
                                        Reach For The Stars / Climb Ev'ry Mountain - Shirley Bassey 23 240
                                        Muskrat - The Everly Brothers 30 26 230
                                        Cryin' - Roy Orbison 25 180
                                        That's My Home - Mr. Acker Bilk 29 60
                                        The Ultimate Averaged Chart. The Definitive Chart Reflecting The Sixties.

                                        Comment


                                        • Jimmy Dean and Bobby Vee, cracking new entries
                                          The Ultimate Averaged Chart. The Definitive Chart Reflecting The Sixties.

                                          Comment


                                          • Also entering, the biggest selling jazz single. One of the few hits in 5/4 time all the way through ('Living In The Past' is the only other one that comes to mind).

                                            And 'You Don't Know What Youve Got' was the name of an excellent Tim Rice oldies show when Capital Rado launched, using the Ral Donner record as the theme tune.

                                            Comment


                                            • Yeah I overlooked the Dave Brubeck single there and I agree it's another excellent track.
                                              The Ultimate Averaged Chart. The Definitive Chart Reflecting The Sixties.

                                              Comment


                                              • Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending November 4th 1961

                                                The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending November 4th 1961 NME RM MM DISC RR Total
                                                Last This The Sound Survey Stores 80 60 110 50 30 Points
                                                Week Week The Top 30 Singles Chart BBC TOP 30 Scored
                                                1 1 Walkin' Back To Happiness - Helen Shapiro 1 1 1 1 1 1 9900
                                                NEW 2 His Latest Flame / Little Sister - Elvis Presley 2 2 2 3 2 4 9400
                                                3 3 When The Girl In Your Arms Is The Girl In Your Heart / Got A Funny Feeling - Cliff Richard 3 3 3 2 3 3 9350
                                                2 4 Wild Wind - John Leyton 4 5 6 4 4 2 8770
                                                8 5 Hit The Road Jack - Ray Charles 5 4 5 5 7 7 8500
                                                16 6 Big Bad John - Jimmy Dean 6 7 4 6 5 14 8100
                                                17 7 Take Five - Dave Brubeck 7 6 9 7 6 16 7660
                                                10 8 Mexicali Rose - Karl Denver 10 10 7 8 15 8 7140
                                                6 9 Sucu Sucu - Laurie Johnson 8 9 8 12 8 9 7040
                                                7 10 Bless You - Tony Orlando 11 12 13 11 10 5 6630
                                                5 11 You'll Answer To Me - Cleo Laine 14 13 11 10 13 6 6600
                                                4 12 Michael - The Highwaymen 13 15 10 9 12 11 6510
                                                29 13 Take Good Care Of My Baby - Bobby Vee 9 8 14 13 11 18 6230
                                                21 14 The Time Has Come - Adam Faith 12 11 15 14 9 13 6070
                                                13 15 You Must Have Been A Beautiful Baby - Bobby Darin 15 14 16 14 10 4490
                                                14 16 My Boomerang Won't Come Back - Charlie Drake 16 17 20 19 16 15 4330
                                                19 17 Let's Get Together - Hayley Mills 18 16 12 20 18 4200
                                                11 18 Kon-Tiki - The Shadows 19 22 19 17 17 21 3980
                                                9 19 Jealousy - Billy Fury 17 19 15 19 17 3740
                                                12 20 Hats Off To Larry - Del Shannon 20 20 18 20 12 3430
                                                27 21 You Don't Know What You've Got - Ral Donner 21 16 25 1880
                                                RE 22 Sucu Sucu - Nina and Frederick 29 17 23 1240
                                                22 23 Tribute To Buddy Holly - Mike Berry 18 24 990
                                                20 24 Get Lost - Eden Kane 24 20 890
                                                NEW 25 Moon River - Danny Williams 23 640
                                                15 26 Wild In The Country / I Feel So Bad - Elvis Presley 28 22 510
                                                NEW 27 I'm A Moody Guy - Shane Fenton and The Fentones 25 480
                                                NEW 28 Runaround Sue - Dion 25 480
                                                18 29 Together - Connie Francis 19 360
                                                RE 30 The Mountain's High - Dick and Deedee 27 320
                                                Little Sister - Elvis Presley 18
                                                You Don't Know - Helen Shapiro 26 150
                                                Granada - Frank Sinatra 30 29 140
                                                Sea Of Heartbreak - Don Gibson 27 120
                                                Johnny Remember Me - John Leyton 28 90
                                                Cryin' - Roy Orbison 30 30
                                                The Ultimate Averaged Chart. The Definitive Chart Reflecting The Sixties.

                                                Comment


                                                • mmmmmmm Dion debuts with Runaround Sue, c'est magnifique
                                                  The Ultimate Averaged Chart. The Definitive Chart Reflecting The Sixties.

                                                  Comment


                                                  • POTPs rare foray into the 60s on Radio 2 today reminds me of when the same week in 1966 featured on an earlier BBC retro chart show with '19th Nervous Breakdown' at number one. Someone wrote in saying the Guinness book said it never made number one. The producer wrote back saying they used the official BBC chart and the charts in any particular book were down to the whim of the writers concerned. A pity they did not continue that policy; although they could not express it in those terms with Gambaccini as presenter!

                                                    I found this in a post from Dave Taylor, who also said that Capital Radio used the BBC charts in its retro show 'Three O'Clock Thrill'. I've listened to some tapes and he is right.
                                                    Last edited by Splodj; Sat February 27, 2021, 18:16.

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