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The Ultimate Averaged Chart - The BBC Chart Re-Imagined

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  • Agreed. It's a pity the BBC producers don't have the same bottle today on POTP instead of surrendering to the whims of others.
    The Ultimate Averaged Chart. The Definitive Chart Reflecting The Sixties.

    Comment


    • Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending November 11th 1961

      The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending November 11th 1961 NME RM MM DISC RR Total
      Last This The Sound Survey Stores 80 60 110 50 30 Points
      Week Week The Top 30 Singles Chart BBC TOP 30 Scored
      2 1 His Latest Flame / Little Sister - Elvis Presley 1 1 1 2 1 1 9790
      1 2 Walkin' Back To Happiness - Helen Shapiro 2 2 2 1 2 2 9680
      3 3 When The Girl In Your Arms Is The Girl In Your Heart / Got A Funny Feeling - Cliff Richard 3 5 3 3 3 3 9080
      6 4 Big Bad John - Jimmy Dean 4 4 5 4 4 4 8850
      13 5 Take Good Care Of My Baby - Bobby Vee 5 3 4 6 6 13 8400
      5 6 Hit The Road Jack - Ray Charles 6 6 7 5 5 6 8350
      7 7 Take Five - Dave Brubeck 7 7 6 7 7 8 7950
      14 8 The Time Has Come - Adam Faith 8 8 8 9 9 7 7460
      4 9 Wild Wind - John Leyton 10 14 9 8 8 5 7140
      8 10 Mexicali Rose - Karl Denver 9 9 11 10 10 9 6980
      10 11 Bless You - Tony Orlando 11 11 10 11 11 10 6690
      9 12 Sucu Sucu - Laurie Johnson 12 10 12 13 12 12 6320
      11 13 You'll Answer To Me - Cleo Laine 14 18 14 12 14 11 5600
      17 14 Let's Get Together - Hayley Mills 15 15 13 14 16 21 5280
      12 15 Michael - The Highwaymen 17 20 16 16 13 15 4810
      25 16 Moon River - Danny Williams 16 13 19 15 20 23 4710
      16 17 My Boomerang Won't Come Back - Charlie Drake 18 16 15 19 17 16 4630
      15 18 You Must Have Been A Beautiful Baby - Bobby Darin 13 12 17 15 14 4370
      28 19 Runaround Sue - Dion 19 19 20 20 19 20 3760
      18 20 Kon-Tiki - The Shadows 26 18 19 2190
      27 21 I'm A Moody Guy - Shane Fenton and The Fentones 23 18 22 1560
      21 22 You Don't Know What You've Got - Ral Donner 25 18 30 1290
      NEW 23 Tower Of Strength - Frankie Vaughan 20 17 1120
      19 24 Jealousy - Billy Fury 24 18 950
      NEW 25 Creole Jazz / Stars And Stripes - Mr. Acker Bilk 17 840
      22 26 Sucu Sucu - Nina and Frederick 22 29 780
      20 27 Hats Off To Larry - Del Shannon 17 420
      NEW 28 This Time - Troy Shondell 27 320
      NEW 29 Tomorrow's Clown - Marty Wilde 28 240
      RE 30 Sea Of Heartbreak - Don Gibson 24 210
      Little Sister - Elvis Presley 21
      Tribute To Buddy Holly - Mike Berry 25 180
      Hey Look Me Over - Ronnie Hilton 29 160
      Together - Connie Francis 26 150
      Cryin' - Roy Orbison 27 120
      Granada - Frank Sinatra 28 90
      Midnight In Moscow - Kenny Ball 30 80
      The Ultimate Averaged Chart. The Definitive Chart Reflecting The Sixties.

      Comment


      • Danny Williams and Frankie Vaughan will eventually battle for the Christmas #1

        Tony Orlando will have to wait until 1970 USA and 1971 UK for greater success.
        The Ultimate Averaged Chart. The Definitive Chart Reflecting The Sixties.

        Comment


        • Strange that 'Please Mr Postman' never made the UK charts at this time, either by The Marvelettes or a domestic cover artist. Of course the Beatles put it into their live set, and it was one of 3 songs in their radio debut on 8-Mar-62 (only 4 months away!).

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Splodj View Post
            Strange that 'Please Mr Postman' never made the UK charts at this time, either by The Marvelettes or a domestic cover artist. Of course the Beatles put it into their live set, and it was one of 3 songs in their radio debut on 8-Mar-62 (only 4 months away!).
            Yip and that is just one of many records that should have charted here and missed out. The great British public were too busy buying and charting rubbish like Hayley Mills. Criminal.
            The Ultimate Averaged Chart. The Definitive Chart Reflecting The Sixties.

            Comment


            • Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending November 18th 1961

              The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending November 18th 1961 NME RM MM DISC RR Total
              Last This The Sound Survey Stores 80 60 110 50 30 Points
              Week Week The Top 30 Singles Chart BBC TOP 30 Scored
              1 1 His Latest Flame / Little Sister - Elvis Presley 1 1 1 1 1 1 9900
              2 2 Walkin' Back To Happiness - Helen Shapiro 2 4 2 2 2 2 9410
              5 3 Take Good Care Of My Baby - Bobby Vee 3 2 3 3 4 7 9150
              4 4 Big Bad John - Jimmy Dean 4 3 4 4 3 3 9070
              3 5 When The Girl In Your Arms Is The Girl In Your Heart / Got A Funny Feeling - Cliff Richard 5 6 5 5 5 4 8530
              8 6 The Time Has Come - Adam Faith 6 5 6 6 6 5 8360
              7 7 Take Five - Dave Brubeck 7 8 7 7 7 6 7870
              6 8 Hit The Road Jack - Ray Charles 8 7 8 8 8 13 7520
              16 9 Moon River - Danny Williams 9 10 9 10 9 17 6830
              23 10 Tower Of Strength - Frankie Vaughan 10 9 10 11 10 18 6660
              10 11 Mexicali Rose - Karl Denver 11 14 16 12 12 11 5900
              11 12 Bless You - Tony Orlando 13 13 15 13 15 9 5840
              9 13 Wild Wind - John Leyton 15 21 13 9 16 8 5740
              NEW 14 The Savage - The Shadows 12 14 12 14 13 26 5420
              19 15 Runaround Sue - Dion 16 10 20 15 17 16 5250
              12 16 Sucu Sucu - Laurie Johnson 14 12 18 19 11 10 5250
              13 17 You'll Answer To Me - Cleo Laine 18 19 17 20 14 12 4430
              18 18 You Must Have Been A Beautiful Baby - Bobby Darin 17 16 16 20 15 3880
              NEW 19 Midnight In Moscow - Kenny Ball 19 17 14 17 27 3800
              14 20 Let's Get Together - Hayley Mills 20 18 11 18 19 3250
              15 21 Michael - The Highwaymen 18 19 20 2360
              17 22 My Boomering Won't Come Back - Charlie Drake 23 14 1150
              NEW 23 Runaround Sue - Doug Sheldon 19 960
              28 24 This Time - Troy Shondell 22 25 900
              21 25 I'm A Moody Guy - Shane Fenton and The Fentones 24 24 770
              NEW 26 Married - The Brook Brothers 19 720
              27 27 Hats Off To Larry - Del Shannon 26 23 640
              NEW 28 Let True Love Begin - Nat King Cole 25 480
              24 29 Jealousy - Billy Fury 21 300
              25 30 Creole Jazz / Stars And Stripes - Mr. Acker Bilk 22 270
              Little Sister - Elvis Presley 27
              Everlovin' - Ricky Nelson 28 240
              Tomorrow's Clown - Marty Wilde 28 240
              Sea Of Heartbreak - Don Gibson 28 90
              Kon-Tiki - The Shadows 30 80
              Together - Connie Francis 29 60
              You Don't Know What You've Got - Ral Donner 30 30
              The Ultimate Averaged Chart. The Definitive Chart Reflecting The Sixties.

              Comment


              • There was a lot of promotion in the music press for the 'Tower of Strength' by Paul Raven (now jailed of course) which EMI had reportedly spent more on than any previous pop record production with its lush orchestration. But the Frankie Vaughan version beat both Raven and the original.

                Meanwhile his fellow future glam rocker Shane Fenton does make the charts.

                Comment


                • I always thought Frankie Vaughan's version was better than Gene McDaniel's US original which was unusual for a British cover to be the better version. Paul Raven's version paled in comparison too

                  Shane later to be Alvin Stardust of course.
                  The Ultimate Averaged Chart. The Definitive Chart Reflecting The Sixties.

                  Comment


                  • Bobby Vee and Neil Sedaka did some of the classic pop songs from the early sixties that stood the test of time, well composed melodic tunes, with good lyrics to sing along with. How things have changed.
                    The Ultimate Averaged Chart. The Definitive Chart Reflecting The Sixties.

                    Comment


                    • Minor typo in this weeks chart (18/11/1961). Troy Shondell was at 28 and not 29 in the 11/11/1961 chart.
                      Last edited by braindeadpj; Mon March 1, 2021, 22:54.

                      Comment


                      • Thanks brain. Corrected
                        The Ultimate Averaged Chart. The Definitive Chart Reflecting The Sixties.

                        Comment


                        • Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending November 25th 1961

                          The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending November 25th 1961 NME RM MM DISC RR Total
                          Last This The Sound Survey Stores 80 60 110 50 30 Points
                          Week Week The Top 30 Singles Chart BBC TOP 30 Scored
                          1 1 His Latest Flame / Little Sister - Elvis Presley 1 1 1 1 1 1 9900
                          3 2 Take Good Care Of My Baby - Bobby Vee 2 2 3 2 2 5 9420
                          4 3 Big Bad John - Jimmy Dean 3 4 2 3 3 2 9250
                          2 4 Walkin' Back To Happiness - Helen Shapiro 4 5 7 4 4 3 8680
                          10 5 Tower Of Strength - Frankie Vaughan 5 3 4 6 7 7 8530
                          6 6 The Time Has Come - Adam Faith 6 7 5 5 5 4 8450
                          9 7 Moon River - Danny Williams 7 6 6 7 6 8 8080
                          7 8 Take Five - Dave Brubeck 8 8 8 9 8 9 7450
                          5 9 When The Girl In Your Arms Is The Girl In Your Heart / Got A Funny Feeling - Cliff Richard 10 10 11 8 10 6 7210
                          14 10 The Savage - The Shadows 9 9 9 10 9 13 7030
                          8 11 Hit The Road Jack - Ray Charles 12 13 13 11 11 10 6350
                          15 12 Runaround Sue - Dion 11 11 12 12 12 15 6260
                          19 13 Midnight In Moscow - Kenny Ball 13 11 10 13 13 21 6040
                          11 14 Mexicali Rose - Karl Denver 15 15 14 16 17 14 5160
                          16 15 Sucu Sucu - Laurie Johnson 14 14 16 17 14 16 5100
                          NEW 16 I'll Get By - Shirley Bassey 16 16 15 14 4030
                          13 17 Wild Wind - John Leyton 17 23 15 15 12 3770
                          12 18 Bless You - Tony Orlando 21 19 20 11 3330
                          26 19 Married - The Brook Brothers 17 19 2160
                          18 20 You Must Have Been A Beautiful Baby - Bobby Darin 20 18 20 18 1980
                          20 21 Let's Get Together - Hayley Mills 19 22 16 17 1890
                          25 22 I'm A Moody Guy - Shane Fenton and The Fentones 18 19 18 24 1820
                          NEW 23 Everlovin' - Ricky Nelson 29 18 1590
                          22 24 My Boomering Won't Come Back - Charlie Drake 20 20 1210
                          NEW 25 Moon River - Henry Mancini 17 1120
                          24 26 This Time - Troy Shondell 24 23 800
                          NEW 27 Fool No 1 - Brenda Lee 18 780
                          NEW 28 My Friend The Sea - Petula Clark 20 660
                          30 29 Creole Jazz / Stars And Stripes - Mr. Acker Bilk 25 26 630
                          17 30 You'll Answer To Me - Cleo Laine 28 19 600
                          You're The Only Good Thing - Jim Reeves 19 600
                          Let True Love Begin - Nat King Cole 25 29 540
                          Runaround Sue - Doug Sheldon 27 320
                          Michael - The Highwaymen 22 270
                          Sucu Sucu - Nina and Frederick 30 25 260
                          Hats Off To Larry - Del Shannon 27 120
                          Bambino - The Springfields 28 90
                          September In The Rain - Dinah Washington 30 80
                          Jealousy - Billy Fury 30 30
                          The Ultimate Averaged Chart. The Definitive Chart Reflecting The Sixties.

                          Comment


                          • Recordings of POTP from the Trad Tavern period are extremely rare, but here is one from this week’s show ...
                            https://www.mixcloud.com/terry-obrien2/pick-of-the-pops-1961-11-25-alan-freeman-33-mins-from-the-live-trad-tavern-show/

                            PS – RRs low placing of Bobby Vee each week looks like they have something against him!

                            Comment


                            • [QUOTE=Splodj

                              PS – RRs low placing of Bobby Vee each week looks like they have something against him![/QUOTE]

                              I think that's a really valid point. Looking back the weeks since Bobby Vee charted with Take Good Care RR has consistently placed it considerably lower than every other chart. It really is a great injustice.
                              The Ultimate Averaged Chart. The Definitive Chart Reflecting The Sixties.

                              Comment


                              • Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending December 2nd 1961

                                The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending December 2nd 1961 NME RM MM DISC RR Total
                                Last This The Sound Survey Stores 80 60 110 50 30 Points
                                Week Week The Top 30 Singles Chart BBC TOP 30 Scored
                                1 1 His Latest Flame / Little Sister - Elvis Presley* 2 4 2 1 1 1 9600
                                2 2 Take Good Care Of My Baby - Bobby Vee 1 1 1 2 2 5 9620
                                5 3 Tower Of Strength - Frankie Vaughan 3 1 4 3 4 2 9320
                                3 4 Big Bad John - Jimmy Dean 4 5 3 4 3 3 8970
                                7 5 Moon River - Danny Williams 5 3 5 5 5 6 8710
                                6 6 The Time Has Come - Adam Faith 6= 6 6 6 8 7 8120
                                4 7 Walkin' Back To Happiness - Helen Shapiro 6= 7 7 7 6 4 8060
                                8 8 Take Five - Dave Brubeck 8 8 8 9 9 9 7400
                                10 9 The Savage - The Shadows 9 12 9 8 7 10 7200
                                9 10 When The Girl In Your Arms Is The Girl In Your Heart / Got A Funny Feeling - Cliff Richard 11= 13 11 10 11 8 6640
                                13 11 Midnight In Moscow - Kenny Ball 10 9 12 11 12 13 6590
                                12 12 Runaround Sue - Dion 11= 11 13 13 10 11 6310
                                16 13 I'll Get By - Shirley Bassey 13 10 10 12 15 16 6280
                                11 14 Hit The Road Jack - Ray Charles 14 14 15 14 13 12 5660
                                14 15 Mexicali Rose - Karl Denver 15 15 16 15 16 14 5200
                                21 16 Let's Get Together - Hayley Mills 17 19 17 18 21 3450
                                20 17 You Must Have Been A Beatiful Baby - Bobby Darin 18 16 18 19 2990
                                NEW 18 Stranger On The Shore - Mr. Acker Bilk 22 18 19 2820
                                26 19 This Time - Troy Shondell 20= 17 14 23 2380
                                15 20 Sucu Sucu - Laurie Johnson 16 18 14 15 2370
                                28 21 My Friend The Sea - Petula Clark 19 25 16 25 2310
                                19 22 Married - The Brook Brothers 19 20 1930
                                22 23 I'm A Moody Guy - Shane Fenton and The Fentones 20= 23 17 24 1550
                                NEW 24 You're The Only Good Thing - Jim Reeves 24 19 22 1430
                                17 25 Wild Wind - John Leyton 20 17 970
                                25 26 Moon River - Henry Mancini 20 880
                                NEW 26 Don't Bring Lulu - Dorothy Provine 20 880
                                NEW 28 September In The Rain - Dinah Washington 17 840
                                27 29 Fool No 1 - Brenda Lee 20 660
                                18 30 Bless You - Tony Orlando 28 20 570
                                * 3 Point Rule applied
                                I Cried For You - Ricky Stevens 25 480
                                You'll Answer To Me - Cleo Laine 18 390
                                Helen (EP) - Helen Shapiro 27 320
                                Charleston - The Temperance Seven 29 160
                                My Boomerang Won't Come Back - Charlie Drake 26 150
                                Susu Sucu - Nina and Frederick 27 120
                                Creole Jazz / Stars And Stripes - Mr. Acker Bilk 28 90
                                Jeannie Jeannie Jeannie - Eddie Cochran 30 80
                                Let True Love Begin - Nat King Cole 29 60
                                I Love How You Love Me - Jimmy Crawford 30 30
                                The Ultimate Averaged Chart. The Definitive Chart Reflecting The Sixties.

                                Comment


                                • A future monster record debuts this week, Mr. Acker Bilks' Stranger On The Shore. Its chart longevity will dwarf anything that has gone before.
                                  The Ultimate Averaged Chart. The Definitive Chart Reflecting The Sixties.

                                  Comment


                                  • The chart run of 'Stranger On The Shore' is amazing. Its chart longevity not only dwarfs anything that had gone before but also, at least until the digital era, most of what came afterwards.

                                    Comment


                                    • Graham76man
                                      Graham76man commented
                                      Editing a comment
                                      I think you are forgetting Frank and My Way which unlike Acker is still selling these days.

                                    • Robbie
                                      Robbie commented
                                      Editing a comment
                                      Test

                                  • RR bias against Bobbie Vee is preventing him from being number one in the Ultimate.

                                    A similar thing will happen with Acker. On the week 'Stranger on the shore' goes to number one on the others it falls back to 8 in RR. Although the 3 point rule may save it in the Ultimate. RR then have it spring back to number 2 for 3 straight weeks, but it is too late to be top because of Cliff's entry at number one.

                                    The BBC may have thought that on both occasions they were lucky not to be including RR.

                                    Comment


                                    • Originally posted by Splodj View Post
                                      RR bias against Bobbie Vee is preventing him from being number one in the Ultimate.

                                      A similar thing will happen with Acker. On the week 'Stranger on the shore' goes to number one on the others it falls back to 8 in RR. Although the 3 point rule may save it in the Ultimate. RR then have it spring back to number 2 for 3 straight weeks, but it is too late to be top because of Cliff's entry at number one.

                                      The BBC may have thought that on both occasions they were lucky not to be including RR.
                                      As you know I work ahead to ensure I can post a new chart every day, so I am able to give you some immediate confirmation and indeed reassurance on this. On 6th January 1962 Mr. Acker Bilk will succeed in achieving #1 status despite RR placing him at #8 that week.
                                      He does not even need the 3 point rule as he will achieve it outright on 9690 points with nearest competitor Danny Williams on 9390.
                                      Acker that week holds #1 on all other 4 charts which comfortably throws out the RR outlier.
                                      The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending January 6th 1962 NME RM MM DISC RR Total
                                      Last This The Sound Survey Stores 80 60 110 50 30 Points
                                      Week Week The Top 30 Singles Chart BBC TOP 30 Scored
                                      3 1 Stranger On The Shore - Mr. Acker Bilk 1 1 1 1 1 8 9690
                                      1 2 Moon River - Danny Williams 2= 2 2 3 4 1 9390
                                      But yes the following week he will lose out to Cliff entering at No 1.
                                      The Ultimate Averaged Chart. The Definitive Chart Reflecting The Sixties.

                                      Comment


                                      • Thanks Brian. On reflection I think Acker is a clearer cut case than Bobby. Did he sneak in while Elvis was on the wane? Difficult to tell.

                                        NME doesn't help because its positions are also out of kilter with the consensus. However their 'ahead of the game' reputation can explain their differences - with Vaughan and Williams (the risers) being higher and Presley and Dean (the fallers) being lower. Whereas the 'behind the game' reputation of RR cannot really explain Vee at 5.

                                        Comment


                                        • Ironically Acker was in the same position as many of The Beatles singles later, #1 in all charts except RR, surprise surprise.

                                          With regard to Bobby Vee, its the same situation as The Temperance Seven, Helen Shapiro, The Monkees, Barry Ryan to name a few among others, all qualified for #1 on points but lost out in the 3 point rule. For these records I'm still torn as to what was right, maybe what I should have done at the start of this is to go by points entirely as the fairer method with the only exception being where a record is #1 in ALL charts except one, and discount the single outlier.
                                          The Ultimate Averaged Chart. The Definitive Chart Reflecting The Sixties.

                                          Comment


                                          • That was the BBC rule effectively - odd-one-out rather than majority. But as you set out the points it is easy to see on your charts which has the most anyway. I think it is telling that even with RR having it at 5 Vee gets most points (just).

                                            The BBC did not only invoke their rule for the Beatles up to 'Help'. They also used it for 'House of the RIsing Sun' and 'The Last Time', when in both cases RR had them at number 6. With the Beatles, the rule stopped RR preventing the records entering at number one. With the other two, the rule stopped RR preventing the records climb to number one after entering.

                                            Comment


                                            • Graham76man commented
                                              Today, 11:21

                                              I think you are forgetting Frank and My Way which unlike Acker is still selling these days.
                                              I posted "The chart run of 'Stranger On The Shore' is amazing. Its chart longevity not only dwarfs anything that had gone before but also, at least until the digital era, most of what came afterwards." for the very reason that I had remembered 'My Way'.

                                              (as a side note, this is the worst thing about the Comments feature, it's not possible to directly reply to a comment)

                                              Comment


                                              • ^

                                                I thought the Comments feature had been withdrawn anyway?

                                                Comment


                                                • Originally posted by Metalweb View Post
                                                  ^

                                                  I thought the Comments feature had been withdrawn anyway?
                                                  Site supporters can use it. Although Wayne did say it should be only sparingly.

                                                  Comment

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