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The Ultimate Averaged Chart - The BBC Chart Re-Imagined

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  • Splodj
    replied
    Ultimate and BBC very close. Just 14/15 swapped, 25 untied and 28/29 swapped.
    Last edited by Splodj; Tue October 13, 2020, 10:08.

    Leave a comment:


  • MrTibbs
    replied
    Greetings Pop Pickers !

    Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending May 6th 1967. Enjoy !

    The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending May 6th 1967 NME MM DISC RR Total
    Last This The Sound Survey Stores 200 250 100 85 Points
    Week Week The Top 30 Singles Chart BBC TOP 30 Scored
    1 1 Puppet On A String - Sandie Shaw 1 1 1 1 1 19050
    2 2 Somethin' Stupid - Frank and Nancy Sinatra 2 2 2 2 2 18415
    3 3 A Little Bit Me, A Little Bit You - The Monkees 3 3 5 3 4 17195
    5 4 Purple Haze - The Jimi Hendrix Experience 4 5 4 4 3 17030
    4 5 Ha ! Ha ! Said The Clown - Manfred Mann 5 6 3 5 7 16640
    11 6 Dedicated To The One I Love - The Mamas And Papas 6 4 6 6 6 16275
    10 7 I Can Hear The Grass Grow - The Move 7 7 9 7 5 14910
    12 8 Funny Familiar Forgotten Feelings - Tom Jones 8 8 8 8 9 14520
    9 9 Seven Drunken Nights - The Dubliners 9 9 7 9 13 14130
    16 10 The Boat That I Row - Lulu 10 10 10 10 10 13335
    7 11 I'm Gonna Get Me A Gun - Cat Stevens 11 11 11 14 8 12655
    6 12 Release Me - Engelbert Humperdinck 12 14 13 11 11 11600
    26 13 Silence Is Golden - The Tremeloes 13 13 14 13 15 11010
    14 14 Happy Together - The Turtles 15 16 12 15 14 10795
    24 15 Pictures Of Lily - The Who 14 12 16 12 16 10725
    8 16 Bernadette - The Four Tops 16 15 15 16 12 10315
    20 17 Hi Ho Silver Lining - Jeff Beck 17 17 17 19 17 8690
    15 18 It's All Over - Cliff Richard 18 18 18 21 18 7955
    13 19 This Is My Song - Harry Secombe 19 19 19 18 20 7635
    21 20 Knock On Wood - Eddie Floyd 20 23 21 17 19 6520
    22 21 Jimmy Mack - Martha and The Vandellas 21 24 20 20 21 6100
    17 22 I Was Kaiser Bill's Batman - Whistling Jack Smith 22 21 22 24 23 5630
    25 23 Maroc 7 / Bombay Duck - The Shadows 23 25 23 26 24 4295
    NEW 24 Sweet Soul Music - Arthur Conley 24 20 23 29 3170
    19 25 Because I Love You - Georgie Fame 25= 28 25 25 26 3125
    18 26 Simon Smith And His Amazing Dancing Bear - The Alan Price Set 25= 30 24 28 22 3015
    NEW 27 New York Mining Disaster 1941 - The Bee Gees 27 26 22 27 2240
    30 28 Gonna Give Her All The Love I've Got - Jimmy Ruffin 29 22 30 1885
    23 29 Edelweiss - Vince Hill 28 26 25 1760
    NEW 30 If I Were A Rich Man - Topol 30 27 27 1400
    Birds And Bees - Warm Sounds 27 800
    Al Capone - Prince Buster 28 750
    Get Me To The World On Time - The Electric Prunes 28 600
    Arnold Layne - Pink Floyd 30 28 505
    Oh How I Miss You - The Bachelors 29 500
    Then I Kissed Her - The Beach Boys 29 200
    Casino Royale - Herb Alpert 30 100

    Leave a comment:


  • MrTibbs
    replied
    Greetings Pop Pickers !

    Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending April 29th 1967. Enjoy !

    The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending April 29th 1967 NME MM DISC RR Total
    Last This The Sound Survey Stores 200 250 100 85 Points
    Week Week The Top 30 Singles Chart BBC TOP 30 Scored
    1 1 Puppet On A String - Sandie Shaw 1 1 1 1 1 19050
    2 2 Somethin' Stupid - Frank and Nancy Sinatra 2 2 2 2 2 18415
    3 3 A Little Bit Me, A Little Bit You - The Monkees 3 3 3 3 3 17780
    4 4 Ha ! Ha ! Said The Clown - Manfred Mann 4 4 4 4 4 17145
    7 5 Purple Haze - The Jimi Hendrix Experience 5 5 5 6 5 16410
    5 6 Release Me - Engelbert Humperdinck 6 6 7 5 8 15555
    10 7 I'm Gonna Get Me A Gun - Cat Stevens 7 8 6 7 6 15375
    9 8 Bernadette - The Four Tops 8 7 10 8 10 14135
    12 9 Seven Drunken Nights - The Dubliners 10 9 8 10 11 13950
    17 10 I Can Hear The Grass Grow - The Move 9 11 9 9 7 13740
    18 11 Dedicated To The One I Love - The Mamas And Papas 11 10 12 11 9 12820
    19 12 Funny Familiar Forgotten Feelings - Tom Jones 12 13 11 12 13 12030
    6 13 This Is My Song - Harry Secombe 14 12 15 13 14 11045
    14 14 Happy Together - The Turtles 13 14 14 14 12 10965
    8 15 It's All Over - Cliff Richard 15 16 13 15 15 10460
    28 16 The Boat That I Row - Lulu 16 15 16 16 16 9725
    13 17 I Was Kaiser Bill's Batman - Whistling Jack Smith 17 17 18 18 17 8540
    11 18 Simon Smith And His Amazing Dancing Bear - The Alan Price Set 18 18 19 21 18 7705
    15 19 Because I Love You - Georgie Fame 19 19 20 17 21 7400
    24 20 Hi Ho Silver Lining - Jeff Beck 20 23 17 19 24 6895
    22 21 Knock On Wood - Eddie Floyd 21 21 23 22 19 5920
    23 22 Jimmy Mack - Martha and The Vandellas 22 22 22 20 22 5915
    16 23 Edelweiss - Vince Hill 23 29 21 23 20 4635
    NEW 24 Pictures Of Lily - The Who 25 19 28 24 3850
    NEW 25 Maroc 7 / Bombay Duck - The Shadows 24 25 25 25 26 3725
    NEW 26 Silence Is Golden - The Tremeloes 26 24 26 28 29 3120
    26 27 Arnold Layne - Pink Floyd 27 24 23 2430
    21 28 Penny Lane / Strawberry Fields Forever - The Beatles 29 27 26 1500
    30 29 Al Capone - Prince Buster 28 28 30 25 1360
    NEW 30 Gonna Give Her All The Love I've Got - Jimmy Ruffin 30 27 27 1200
    Sweet Soul Music - Arthur Conley 26 1000
    Georgy Girl - The Seekers 30 30 27 640
    Touch Me, Touch Me - Dave Dee, Dozy, Beaky, Mick
    and Tich
    29 500
    Oh How I Miss You - The Bachelors 29 30 285
    Memories Are Made Of This - Val Doonican 28 255

    Leave a comment:


  • Graham76man
    commented on 's reply
    As I predicted Jeff Beck enters all the top 30 without selling a single copy. Only after these charts were published did Beck start to sell, but only at 79. The other version by The Attack was the one in the actual chart. But as that video I posted in a previous post shows when somebody like Don Arden wanted a record in the chart it was. He was not the only one Joe Meek was well into chart hyping. Meek bought 10 to 20 in each shop and they would chart, he would then tell the DJ's it's charted and they would do the rest to sell the record. 100 copies would get you up the chart. At least 60 shops were in London.

  • MrTibbs
    replied
    Yeah there was no consistency in their application of tie breakers.

    Leave a comment:


  • Splodj
    replied
    Strange how the BBC did not break a tie for number one using the 'trend' method, but did for other positions.

    Leave a comment:


  • MrTibbs
    replied
    Greetings Pop Pickers !

    A joint #1 on the BBC chart.

    Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending April 22nd 1967. Enjoy !

    The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending April 22nd 1967 NME MM DISC RR Total
    Last This The Sound Survey Stores 200 250 100 85 Points
    Week Week The Top 30 Singles Chart BBC TOP 30 Scored
    2 1 Puppet On A String - Sandie Shaw 1= 1 1 2 2 18865
    1 2 Somethin' Stupid - Frank and Nancy Sinatra 1= 2 2 1 1 18600
    3 3 A Little Bit Me, A Little Bit You - The Monkees 3 3 3 3 3 17780
    5 4 Ha ! Ha ! Said The Clown - Manfred Mann 4 4 4 4 4 17145
    4 5 Release Me - Engelbert Humperdinck 5 5 6 5 5 16260
    6 6 This Is My Song - Harry Secombe 6 6 7 6 7 15540
    10 7 Purple Haze - The Jimi Hendrix Experience 7 7 8 7 6 15075
    8 8 It's All Over - Cliff Richard 8 9 5 9 9 14970
    12 9 Bernadette - The Four Tops 9 8 11 8 8 13855
    16 10 I'm Gonna Get Me A Gun - Cat Stevens 10 11 9 11 10 13285
    7 11 Simon Smith And His Amazing Dancing Bear - The Alan Price Set 11 10 10 12 11 13050
    20 12 Seven Drunken Nights - The Dubliners 12 13 12 10 14 11895
    9 13 I Was Kaiser Bill's Batman - Whistling Jack Smith 13 12 13 15 13 11430
    17 14 Happy Together - The Turtles 14 17 14 13 12 10465
    18 15 Because I Love You - Georgie Fame 15 14 18 14 15 9710
    11 16 Edelweiss - Vince Hill 16 16 15 16 17 9690
    29 17 I Can Hear The Grass Grow - The Move 17 15 17 18 16 9275
    26 18 Dedicated To The One I Love - The Mamas And Papas 18 18 16 17 18 8855
    NEW 19 Funny Familiar Forgotten Feelings - Tom Jones 19 19 20 19 24 6945
    13 20 Georgy Girl - The Seekers 22 21 21 26 22 5765
    14 21 Penny Lane / Strawberry Fields Forever - The Beatles 21 26 19 21 23 5680
    23 22 Knock On Wood - Eddie Floyd 20 24 22 22 19 5570
    30 23 Jimmy Mack - Martha and The Vandellas 23= 20 26 24 26 4575
    NEW 24 Hi Ho Silver Lining - Jeff Beck 23= 24 24 20 28 4505
    15 25 This Is My Song - Petula Clark 26 29 23 23 27 3540
    22 26 Arnold Layne - Pink Floyd 25 25 27 20 2835
    19 27 Memories Are Made Of This - Val Doonican 27 26 27 28 25 2810
    NEW 28 The Boat That I Row - Lulu 29 22 25 2400
    21 29 Touch Me, Touch Me - Dave Dee, Dozy, Beaky, Mick and Tich 28 28 28 30 21 2300
    25 30 Al Capone - Prince Buster 30 23 30 29 29 2220
    There's A Kind Of Hush - Herman's Hermits 29 500
    Maroc 7 - The Shadows 30 200
    You Got What It Takes - The Dave Clark Five 30 85

    Leave a comment:


  • Splodj
    replied
    Originally posted by Graham76man View Post
    So as the record probably didn't make the top ten on first release (well it didn't in RR) so I guess the BBC chart probably didn't have it in.
    You can see where it peaked on post 239.

    Leave a comment:


  • MrTibbs
    replied
    Greetings Pop Pickers !

    Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending April 15th 1967. Enjoy !

    The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending April 15th 1967 NME MM DISC RR Total
    Last This The Sound Survey Stores 200 250 100 85 Points
    Week Week The Top 30 Singles Chart BBC TOP 30 Scored
    2 1 Somethin' Stupid - Frank and Nancy Sinatra 1 1 1 1 1 19050
    4 2 Puppet On A String - Sandie Shaw 2 2 2 2 3 18330
    11 3 A Little Bit Me, A Little Bit You - The Monkees 4 4 3 4 4 17395
    1 4 Release Me - Engelbert Humperdinck 3 3 5 3 2 17365
    14 5 Ha ! Ha! Said The Clown - Manfred Mann 6 6 4 6 6 16375
    3 6 This Is My Song - Harry Secombe 5 5 6 5 5 16260
    5 7 Simon Smith and His Amazing Dancing Bear - The Alan Price Set 7 7 8 8 7 14890
    8 8 It's All Over - Cliff Richard 8= 8 7 9 9 14670
    6 9 I Was Kaiser Bill's Batman - Whistling Jack Smith 8= 9 9 7 8 14255
    18 10 Purple Haze - The Jimi Hendrix Experience 10 11 10 10 11 13050
    7 11 Edelweiss - Vince Hill 11 10 11 11 10 12985
    17 12 Bernadette - The Four Tops 12 12 12 12 13 11980
    13 13 Georgy Girl - The Seekers 14 15 13 18 14 10445
    10 14 Penny Lane / Strawberry Fields Forever - The Beatles 13 16 15 13 12 10415
    9 15 This Is My Song - Petula Clark 15 14 17 14 18 9705
    30 16 I'm Gonna Get Me A Gun - Cat Stevens 16 13 16 16 21 9700
    25 17 Happy Together - The Turtles 17 19 14 15 19 9270
    20 18 Because I Love You - Georgie Fame 18 17 18 19 15 8610
    12 19 Memories Are Made Of This - Val Doonican 19 21 19 17 17 7590
    27 20 Seven Drunken Nights - The Dubliners 20= 18 20 21 25 6860
    19 21 Touch Me, Touch Me - Dave Dee, Dozy, Beaky, Mick and Tich 20= 20 22 20 16 6825
    28 22 Arnold Layne - Pink Floyd 23 24 21 22 26 5225
    23 23 Knock On Wood - Eddie Floyd 22 24 24 23 20 4885
    15 24 There's A Kind Of Hush - Herman's Hermits 24 30 23 24 23 3580
    22 25 Al Capone - Prince Buster 25 27 28 27 22 2715
    NEW 26 Dedicated To The One I Love - The Mamas And Papas 29 22 30 29 2250
    21 27 Love Is Here And Now You're Gone - The Supremes 27 25 30 24 2195
    16 28 On A Carousel - The Hollies 26 26 26 27 2090
    NEW 29 I Can Hear The Grass Grow - The Move 28 23 28 30 1985
    NEW 30 Jimmy Mack - Martha and The Vandellas 30 29 29 25 1500
    Give It To Me - The Troggs 27 29 1170
    Hi Ho Silver Lining - Jeff Beck 26 1000
    You Got What It Takes - The Dave Clark Five 28 28 855


    Leave a comment:


  • Graham76man
    replied
    I think Leader of The Pack fell into the "death disc" thing, that was popular in the early 60's - Johnny Remember Me etc. It was the Church of England that told the BBC that these discs shouldn't be played. So they didn't.
    Back then I think Fluff only had to play the top ten in full. So as the record probably didn't make the top ten on first release (well it didn't in RR) so I guess the BBC chart probably didn't have it in. Then he didn't have to play it! Hence the "pick" thing.

    Having a top ten record was the only way you could get a record played for sure on the BBC. Though you might think that sending in a request for record on the "request shows" would also get the record played. But that was never the case. The BBC simply selected the records it wanted to play, then trawled through the sack of requests for the same records! Of course there were plenty.

    Leave a comment:


  • Graham76man
    commented on 's reply
    TOTP could get away with playing things as it was on at 7.30, when young kids were in bed, back then. Radio however was much stricter.

  • Splodj
    replied
    That's a possible candidate.

    The only way to discover if it was banned would be to find a recording (or track listing) of the 31-Jan-65 POTP to see if it was played as a Top 20 new entry, as it never made the Top 10.

    Edit: 'Leader Of The Pack' was featured as the second act on the 4-Feb-65 edition of Top Of The Pops.
    ​​​​
    Last edited by Splodj; Sun October 11, 2020, 00:22.

    Leave a comment:


  • MrTibbs
    replied
    I think, if I remember correctly, that the BBC didn't play Leader Of The Pack by The Shangri-Las back on release in 1965 as it was considered to be in poor taste but I can't remember if POTP played it or not back then.

    Leave a comment:


  • Splodj
    replied
    Up until 1969, when the Birkin / Gainsbourg and Max Romeo songs charted, I cannot recall any record being banned from the chart section on POTP.

    Leave a comment:


  • MrTibbs
    replied
    Strange, above message repeated itself 5 times.

    Leave a comment:


  • MrTibbs
    replied
    On the record, the intro says, 'this is the story of the seven drunken nights but we're only allowed to sing five of them' so we never get to hear what the remaining two were.

    But if you listen to the full live version on you tube you can hear all seven of them

    Leave a comment:


  • Graham76man
    replied
    The last two 'drunken' nights which were omitted are very tame by today's standard.
    What do you mean by that? Removed from the BBC's chart?
    I always thought they just didn't play the records when it came to the chart show. Hence the title "Pick of the Pops" this insured that "banned" subjects didn't get played and avoided the USA top 40 style of show, which was really looked down on. Fluff could thus "pick" what could be played!

    Leave a comment:


  • MrTibbs
    replied
    Greetings Pop Pickers !

    The last two 'drunken' nights which were omitted are very tame by today's standard.

    Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending April 8th 1967. Enjoy !

    The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending April 8th 1967 NME MM DISC RR Total
    Last This The Sound Survey Stores 200 250 100 85 Points
    Week Week The Top 30 Singles Chart BBC TOP 30 Scored
    1 1 Release Me - Engelbert Humperdinck 1 1 2 3 1 18600
    7 2 Somethin' Stupid - Frank and Nancy Sinatra 2 3 1 2 2 18465
    2 3 This Is My Song - Harry Secombe 3 2 5 1 3 17680
    6 4 Puppet On A String - Sandie Shaw 4 4 3 4 4 17395
    4 5 Simon Smith And His Amazing Dancing Bear - The Alan Price Set 5 5 4 6 5 16660
    5 6 I Was Kaiser Bill's Batman - Whistling Jack Smith 6 7 6 5 6 15775
    3 7 Edelweiss - Vince Hill 8 6 7 7 7 15440
    14 8 It's All Over - Cliff Richard 7 8 8 8 11 14350
    8 9 This Is My Song - Petula Clark 9 10 10 9 9 13520
    9 10 Penny Lane / Strawberry Fields Forever - The Beatles 10 12 11 11 8 12755
    NEW 11 A Little Bit Me, A Little Bit You - The Monkees 11 8 14 10 14 12395
    11 12 Memories Are Made Of This - Val Doonican 12 14 9 13 12 12315
    10 13 Georgy Girl - The Seekers 13 13 12 14 10 11835
    NEW 14 Ha ! Ha ! Said The Clown - Manfred Mann 14 11 13 12 17 11590
    13 15 There's A Kind Of Hush - Herman's Hermits 15 15 18 19 15 9010
    12 16 On A Carousel - The Hollies 16 17 17 18 16 8875
    30 17 Bernadette - The Four Tops 18 16 19 16 25 8010
    29 18 Purple Haze - The Jimi Hendrix Experience 19= 23 15 17 22 7765
    21 19 Touch Me, Touch Me - Dave Dee, Dozy, Beaky, Mick and Tich 17 18 21 21 13 7630
    27 20 Because I Love You - Georgie Fame 19= 19 20 15 23 7430
    17 21 Love Is Here And Now You're Gone - The Supremes 21 27 16 20 20 6585
    22 22 Al Capone - Prince Buster 22 24 25 22 18 4905
    24 23 Knock On Wood - Eddie Floyd 24 26 26 24 21 3800
    15 24 Detroit City - Tom Jones 23 21 30 26 19 3770
    NEW 25 Happy Together - The Turtles 25 22 27 25 27 3740
    18 26 Give It To Me - The Troggs 26 27 24 30 24 3245
    NEW 27 Seven Drunken Nights - The Dubliners 27 25 28 23 2750
    25 28 Arnold Layne - Pink Floyd 29 22 27 2650
    19 29 I'm A Believer - The Monkees 28 20 28 2455
    NEW 30 I'm Gonna Get Me A Gun - Cat Stevens 23 2000
    I'll Try Anything - Dusty Springfield 30 29 29 28 26 1625
    You Got What It Takes - The Dave Clark Five 30 29 370
    Jimmy Mack - Martha and The Vandellas 29 200
    I Can't Make It - The Small Faces 30 85

    Leave a comment:


  • MrTibbs
    replied
    I'm currently working on 1968 so it won't be long now till I delve back to give you 60 -63.
    Given I'm way ahead do you guys still want just one chart a day or some days do you want a couple of charts ?

    Leave a comment:


  • MrTibbs
    replied
    Brain thanks for noticing that. I have amended those to keep the chart 100% accurate. For Dusty I must have tapped a 1 instead of 2.

    Leave a comment:


  • Graham76man
    commented on 's reply
    I don't think the BBC would have considered such rules. It seems they saw the charts as equal, it was only tied number ones that caused a problem for TOTP. They had to play the number one and they couldn't have loads of best sellers!
    My suggestion was that you can use a different system to straighten out charts, not the merits of such charts or the faults of them.

  • Graham76man
    commented on 's reply
    I have found points based best selling "year" charts to be useless. Some records sell huge amounts but don't even get top ten on the weekly chart and number ones on sales based charts can be found outside the top 100 at the end of the year.

  • braindeadpj
    replied
    I noticed a couple of typos. In the 11th of March chart, you have two no. 15's for the last week positions. Dusty Springfield at 19 'this week' was at 25 last week.
    In the 18th of March chart, The Casinos were a re-entry at no.26 and not a new entry.

    It's interesting how variable the points required to be in the top 30 are. One week you had three songs in the breakers on 1000 points and the following week 1000 points were enough to be at the no.29 position. I guess this isn't really that surprising as we know that the number of sales required to appear in the current charts are variable from week to week.
    A year-end chart based on the points received during the year could be worthwhile - though in all likelihood it will be similar to an inverse points one - though 'weaker' no.1s (i.e. those that weren't no.1 in all charts at the same time) may be downplayed slightly.... Of course this does then raise the question of what you count as the year as the chart is always a reflection of the previous week and not the dated week... Or do you adopt a Billboard-type scenario where you begin/end at the start of December -ostensibly for publication reasons - though also to not underplay the importance of the Christmas weeks (traditionally a time of big sales).

    Leave a comment:


  • MrTibbs
    replied
    Because the chart positions from the music papers are averaged in the same way as the BBC did the foundation for The Ultimate Averaged Chart is similar up to that point so many positions will remain largely the same and I see that as positive.
    However as we have already seen on many occasions the BBC chart is strewn with errors, ties, and anomalies, so not a robust averaged chart to define the times.
    By adding the extra layer of store returns to proportionately weigh the music paper charts a stage further enhances the result to give a clearer more defined averaged chart correcting anomalies and ties.
    So yeah it will be similar, but much more accurate and robust.

    Leave a comment:


  • Splodj
    replied
    Graham, to "reduce the effect of Retailer's messy chart" the BBC could have applied this odd-one-out rule: 'If only one chart has a position more than 4 places adrift from any other it will be ignored'. In effect the BBC were already applying this as their odd-one-out policy for number one (because the problem only arose when RR placed something lower than number 4 that was number 1 elsewhere) and I think it would have been fairer to apply it to the whole chart.
    Last edited by Splodj; Fri October 9, 2020, 14:11.

    Leave a comment:

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