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The Ultimate Averaged Chart - The BBC Chart Re-Imagined

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  • Done some further research.
    According to DISC for w/e 3rd February 1962,

    'Flu-hit Presley disc in
    The long-awaited Rock-a-hula Baby by Elvis Presley, held up by illness at Decca, has finally found its way into shops and charts, but not without difficulty, which explains why the American idol is only at number 9.
    Initial orders for this disc were 290,000. By the week-end Decca had managed to send out only 200,000 of these, although by now all retailers should be in possession of their orders.

    I'm sure there must be some other explanation for the delay. It reminds me of the delay in issuing the Beatles MMT EP in December 1967 when it entered NME chart at no. 10 with 400,000 advance orders (700,000 of the special booklets were being printed). It was put down to the snow conditions!

    Comment


    • Although ... Alan Freeman played 'Cant help falling in love' in the new releases section of POTP on 14th Jan. POTP new releases were normally played 2 days after issue, suggesting a release date of the 12th.

      (Posted before seeing the post above. So it seems the release date was intended to be 12-Jan but there were distribution problems.)
      Last edited by Splodj; Wed March 10, 2021, 17:59.

      Comment


      • Minor error in the 'breakers' of the 20/1/1962 chart as you have His Latest Flame - Little Sister instead of His Latest Flame / Little Sister - Elvis Presley.

        Comment


        • Thanks brain. Corrected.

          Here is the next chart guys.
          The Ultimate Averaged Chart. The Definitive Chart Reflecting The Sixties.

          Comment


          • Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending January 27th 1962


            The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending January 27th 1962 NME RM MM DISC RR Total
            Last This The Sound Survey Stores 80 60 110 50 30 Points
            Week Week The Top 30 Singles Chart BBC TOP 30 Scored
            1 1 The Young Ones - Cliff Richard 1 1 1 1 1 1 9900
            3 2 I'd Never Find Another You - Billy Fury 2 3 4 2 2 6 9250
            2 3 Stranger On The Shore - Mr. Acker Bilk 3 5 2 3 4 2 9120
            6 4 Happy Birthday Sweet Sixteen - Neil Sedaka 4= 3 5 7 3 3 8680
            5 5 Multiplication - Bobby Darin 6 6 3 5 5 5 8620
            11 6 Let's Twist Again - Chubby Checker 4= 2 7 4 7 11 8530
            4 7 Let There Be Drums - Sandy Nelson 7 10 6 6 6 4 7990
            10 8 Run To Him - Bobby Vee 8 8 10 12 8 7 7060
            12 9 Walk On By - Leroy Van Dyke 9= 9 9 8 15 10 7040
            7 10 Johnny Will - Pat Boone 11 17 8 9 9 12 6590
            21 11 Forget Me Not - Eden Kane 9= 7 16 13 12 8 6440
            9 12 Midnight In Moscow - Kenny Ball 13 13 15 14 13 9 5830
            8 13 Moon River - Danny Williams 16 15 11 11 18 15 5810
            13 14 The Twist - Chubby Checker 15 11 12 10 14 5560
            23 15 Crying In The Rain - The Everly Brothers 12 12 17 17 10 18 5340
            16 16 The Lion Sleeps Tonight - The Tokens 14 14 18 16 11 13 5330
            14 17 The Language Of Love - John D. Loudermilk 17 18 14 15 14 16 5120
            19 18 Son This Is She - John Leyton 20 19 20 20 19 19 3790
            15 19 So Long Baby - Del Shannon 25 19 19 17 2940
            28 20 The Comancheros - Lonnie Donegan 19 20 20 16 24 2500
            20 21 You're The Only Good Thing - Jim Reeves 23 18 20 2400
            NEW 22 Lonesome - Adam Faith 18 16 17 21 2200
            26 23 Peppermint Twist - Joey Dee and The Starliters 27 13 1400
            NEW 24 Jeannie - Danny Williams 21 29 860
            NEW 25 D-Darling - Anthony Newley 22 27 840
            22 26 Goodbye Cruel World - James Darren 23 30 670
            NEW 27 Your Ma Said You Cried In Your Sleep Last Night - Doug Sheldon 20 550
            25 28 I Understand - The G-Clefs 29 22 430
            30 29 Don't Bring Lulu - Dorothy Provine 26 400
            RE 30 September In The Rain - Dinah Washington 28 240
            Tower Of Strength - Frankie Vaughan 23 240
            Toy Balloons - Russ Conway 30 26 230
            My Friend The Sea - Petula Clark 25 180
            Walkin' Back To Happiness - Helen Shapiro 28 90
            The Ultimate Averaged Chart. The Definitive Chart Reflecting The Sixties.

            Comment


            • Minor error. Dorothy Provine was at 30 last week (20/1/1962) and not 29.

              Comment


              • Fixed. I actually noticed that one earlier when I was checking the chart and meant to amend it before posting.
                The Ultimate Averaged Chart. The Definitive Chart Reflecting The Sixties.

                Comment


                • Wot! No Elvis this week. Very strange.

                  Comment


                  • ^
                    Melody Maker must have jumped the gun with Elvis. Did some stores claim to have sold the record when they didn't have any copies in stock? 45cat.com lists the release date as 26/01/62 https://www.45cat.com/record/rca1270

                    Comment


                    • Yeah the strange thing is, MM claimed it was as a result of import copies but if that was the case I can't think of any other record that MM placed on their chart before other charts on the basis of just 'import' copies.
                      The Ultimate Averaged Chart. The Definitive Chart Reflecting The Sixties.

                      Comment


                      • Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending February 3rd 1962

                        The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending February 3rd 1962 NME RM MM DISC RR Total
                        Last This The Sound Survey Stores 80 60 110 50 30 Points
                        Week Week The Top 30 Singles Chart BBC TOP 30 Scored
                        1 1 The Young Ones - Cliff Richard 1 1 1 1 1 1 9900
                        6 2 Let's Twist Again - Chubby Checker 2 2 6 2 2 2 9330
                        4 3 Happy Birthday Sweet Sixteen - Neil Sedaka 3 6 4 5 3 3 8720
                        RE 4 Rock-A-Hula Baby / Can't Help Falling In Love - Elvis Presley 4= 4 2 4 9 12 8540
                        3 5 Stranger On The Shore - Mr. Acker Bilk 6= 8 5 3 6 5 8510
                        11 6 Forget Me Not - Eden Kane 4= 3 7 9 5 4 8210
                        5 7 Multiplication - Bobby Darin 8 5 3 8 8 7 8160
                        2 8 I'd Never Find Another You - Billy Fury 6= 7 8 6 4 9 8060
                        9 9 Walk On By - Leroy Van Dyke 9 9 9 7 7 6 7670
                        7 10 Let There Be Drums - Sandy Nelson 11 10 10 11 12 8 6780
                        15 11 Crying In The Rain - The Everly Brothers 10 13 11 10 10 13 6540
                        8 12 Run To Him - Bobby Vee 12 12 13 13 11 11 6180
                        14 13 The Twist - Chubby Checker 13 11 12 12 17 14 6040
                        16 14 The Lion Sleeps Tonight - The Tokens 15 17 16 14 16 17 5060
                        20 15 The Comancheros - Lonnie Donegan 16 16 17 19 14 18 4600
                        17 16 The Language Of Love - John D. Loudermilk 17 18 20 16 16 3800
                        22 17 Lonesome - Adam Faith 14 13 14 13 22 3630
                        12 18 Midnight In Moscow - Kenny Ball 19 24 19 15 10 2710
                        13 19 Moon River - Danny Williams 24 15 20 2650
                        NEW 20 Wimoweh - Karl Denver 28 18 18 28 2540
                        23 21 Peppermint Twist - Joey Dee and The Starliters 18 15 15 2240
                        21 22 You're The Only Good Thing - Jim Reeves 23 20 24 2060
                        24 23 Jeannie - Danny Williams 20 19 18 19 1970
                        10 24 Johnny Will - Pat Boone 22 20 15 1750
                        18 25 Son This Is She - John Leyton 21 19 21 1700
                        NEW 26 A Little Bitty Tear - Burl Ives 17 30 1570
                        25 27 D-Darling - Anthony Newley 20 27 1000
                        NEW 28 Don't Stop Twist - Frankie Vaughan 26 400
                        NEW 29 A Little Bitty Tear - Mike and Griff 27 320
                        19 30 So Long Baby - Del Shannon 23 240
                        Can't Help Falling In Love - Elvis Presley 30
                        I Understand - The G-Clefs 25 180
                        He's Old Enough To Know Better - The Brook Brothers 29 160
                        Peppermint Twist - Danny Peppermint and The Jumping Jacks 26 150
                        Toy Balloons - Russ Conway 29 60
                        The Ultimate Averaged Chart. The Definitive Chart Reflecting The Sixties.

                        Comment


                        • On POTP there are two records each at numbers 4 and 6 but all four records have the same points total of 17.

                          Comment


                          • Looks like the BBC thought a 4-way tie would look too silly and used the 'trend' method to separate them into 2 x 2-way ties.

                            On Elvis, I think it has to be asked whether the normally upright MM pulled a fast one and propelled the record into their chart in the week of intended release without genuine sales to justify it.

                            I believe the BBC are about (10th March) to make Kenny Ball joint number one with Elvis simply because they did not properly compensate for the NME separation effect. They would do the same with Cliff on 26th January 1963 - elevating 'Dance On'. As we've discussed before, they should have applied the same rule to double A sides that they did to EPs (as the Ultimate does).
                            Last edited by Splodj; Thu March 11, 2021, 13:09.

                            Comment


                            • Maybe RCA saw the huge advance orders for Cliff and decided to postpone the Elvis record for 2 weeks to avoid a clash for number one.
                              If there were illness at Decca were any other records affected?
                              Import sales is a possibility. Was RM or RR charts top 50 at this time? Surely Elvis import would have made the top 50?

                              Comment


                              • ^ We do have to be careful of release dates it is true. Often surviving records will be derived from label sources which tend to be the intended date, but while mostly that will've matched up to the actual day of release to stores in practice, occasionally there are examples of delay, sometimes for reasons which seem ridiculous by today's standards but will have been sufficiently significant 60 years ago to have interfered with issuance of discs.

                                The example I came across many years ago which always sticks in my head is the date given for the release of The Beatles' 'Get Back' as Fri 11 Apr '69, yet it didn't appear in the by-then 'official' BMRB Top 50 at No 1 until the chart in use W/E Sat 26 Apr, based on sales from Mon 14 to Sat 19. With reported pre-orders of around 530,000, there's no way the single could've landed anywhere but the top even in its first couple of days in shops, which indicates clearly the disc didn't arrive en-masse on Fri 11 as planned as it would've charted at 1 for W/E Sat 19 Apr. I seem to recall someone telling me that it likely didn't appear until possibly Tue 15, which would be probable and explain why it didn't make the previous week's rankings, although I forget now what the reason was (if indeed it was known).

                                Brian05 mentions a delay with their 'Magical Mystery Tour' EP, though as far as I can see records show its official release date as Fri 8 Dec '67 and it duly appeared on all available charts for W/E Sat 16 Dec, based on sales Mon 4 to Sat 9 and so this would've been based on its first two days on official issue in shops; no obvious delay. Perhaps you meant that there were delays in getting all its pre-orders out to all outlets by Fri 8 and that its initial entry positions on the 16 Dec charts were lower than otherwise should've been the case.

                                Comment


                                • Gambo I find with most companies what they intended to do is not what happens in practice. In this cases a release date is the "intention" and the "practice" is that it gets sent out before, maybe not to all places, but to some. This could be down to the pressing plant errors, communication problems, or just somebody being stupid along the long chain of organisations involved in sending records out to the shops. The bigger the organisation the chances of screwing things increase no end. The Official Chart people, being no different. However they probably have agreements with the record industry, to stick by certain rules. So if record sales crop up before the record company has confirmed any date, they would remove such sales from the charts. I think that most people on this site are aware that on a show after the chart show on Radio One, one Sunday years ago. There was a spokesperson from the OCC talking about the problems involved with doing a chart in such a short turnover time. And they highlighted that due to a barcode error, packets of KP Salted Peanuts were racing up the record charts, and nearly made the countdown till somebody noticed that it wasn't a record!
                                  Education for anyone aged 12 to 16 has made a mess of the world!

                                  Comment


                                  • EMI gave the BBC an advance copy of Get Back and when McCartney heard it on Radio 1 he didn't like how it sounded, so a new mix was made on 7th April. Apparently this is why they couldn't get them out in time for the 11th April release date, although it was still played in the new release unit of POTP on the 13th.

                                    Comment


                                    • Originally posted by Splodj View Post
                                      Looks like the BBC thought a 4-way tie would look too silly and used the 'trend' method to separate them into 2 x 2-way ties.

                                      I believe the BBC are about (10th March) to make Kenny Ball joint number one with Elvis simply because they did not properly compensate for the NME separation effect. They would do the same with Cliff on 26th January 1963 - elevating 'Dance On'. As we've discussed before, they should have applied the same rule to double A sides that they did to EPs (as the Ultimate does).
                                      As Robbie and Splodj mention the BBC genuinely didn't put a lot of thought into refining their chart as has been proved time and time again with the many errors, miscalculations and omissions. It appears to me it was just totalled up and taken immediately at face value. It was definitely a 'fun' chart rather than a chart to be taken seriously.

                                      On March 10th Kenny Ball will top the BBC chart but Elvis will top the Ultimate because the split will be justifiably factored in like you suggest.
                                      The Ultimate Averaged Chart. The Definitive Chart Reflecting The Sixties.

                                      Comment


                                      • Originally posted by brian05 View Post
                                        Maybe RCA saw the huge advance orders for Cliff and decided to postpone the Elvis record for 2 weeks to avoid a clash for number one.
                                        If there were illness at Decca were any other records affected?
                                        Import sales is a possibility. Was RM or RR charts top 50 at this time? Surely Elvis import would have made the top 50?
                                        Brian RM never progressed beyond a Top 20, but RR was a Top 50, supported by just 30 shops.
                                        The Ultimate Averaged Chart. The Definitive Chart Reflecting The Sixties.

                                        Comment


                                        • Originally posted by Gambo View Post
                                          ^ We do have to be careful of release dates it is true. Often surviving records will be derived from label sources which tend to be the intended date, but while mostly that will've matched up to the actual day of release to stores in practice, occasionally there are examples of delay, sometimes for reasons which seem ridiculous by today's standards but will have been sufficiently significant 60 years ago to have interfered with issuance of discs.

                                          The example I came across many years ago which always sticks in my head is the date given for the release of The Beatles' 'Get Back' as Fri 11 Apr '69, yet it didn't appear in the by-then 'official' BMRB Top 50 at No 1 until the chart in use W/E Sat 26 Apr, based on sales from Mon 14 to Sat 19. With reported pre-orders of around 530,000, there's no way the single could've landed anywhere but the top even in its first couple of days in shops.
                                          Given that advance order figure 530,000 it was strange that the single did not enter either NME or MM at #1 also, given that both still had robust charts around that time also, and still considered by many more accurate than BMRB at that time due to BMRB's difficulty in receiving sufficient completed diaries back in time.
                                          The Ultimate Averaged Chart. The Definitive Chart Reflecting The Sixties.

                                          Comment


                                          • Here is a clip from NME for 12th April 1969. A late re-mixing delay.



                                            There was an Apple advert in all the music papers on 19th April. In the review of the disc Record Mirror said it was "out this week". I disagree that pre-orders were 530,000. Several sources say that was the total sale by the end of 1969.

                                            I was told by my record store that the MMT EP was held up due to the weather. I suspect it was also due to printing problems with the 32 page booklet included with the double EP.

                                            Perhaps you meant that there were delays in getting all its pre-orders out to all outlets by Fri 8 and that its initial entry positions on the 16 Dec charts were lower than otherwise should've been the case.
                                            Yes, I agree.

                                            Comment


                                            • Originally posted by brian05 View Post
                                              I disagree that pre-orders were 530,000. Several sources say that was the total sale by the end of 1969.
                                              I agree with that Brian, I also think that was the total for the year. 1969 was a very poor year for record sales in total.
                                              The Ultimate Averaged Chart. The Definitive Chart Reflecting The Sixties.

                                              Comment


                                              • Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending February 10th 1962

                                                The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending February 10th 1962 NME RM MM DISC RR Total
                                                Last This The Sound Survey Stores 80 60 110 50 30 Points
                                                Week Week The Top 30 Singles Chart BBC TOP 30 Scored
                                                1 1 The Young Ones - Cliff Richard 1 1 1 1 1 1 9900
                                                4 2 Rock-A-Hula Baby / Can't Help Falling In Love - Elvis Presley 2 2 2 3 2 4 9400
                                                2 3 Let's Twist Again - Chubby Checker 3 3 3 2 3 2 9380
                                                6 4 Forget Me Not - Eden Kane 4 4 4 4 4 3 8940
                                                9 5 Walk On By - Leroy Van Dyke 5 5 6 6 6 5 8360
                                                3 6 Happy Birthday Sweet Sixteen - Neil Sedaka 6 6 7 7 7 6 8030
                                                5 7 Stranger On The Shore - Mr. Acker Bilk 8 9 5 5 10 8 7920
                                                8 8 I'd Never Find Another You - Billy Fury 7 8 9 8 5 7 7710
                                                7 9 Multiplication - Bobby Darin 9 7 8 9 9 10 7450
                                                11 10 Crying In The Rain - The Everly Brothers 10 10 10 10 8 9 7060
                                                12 11 Run To Him - Bobby Vee 11 11 11 12 11 11 6490
                                                26 12 A Little Bitty Tear - Burl Ives 12 11 13 11 14 19 6090
                                                17 13 Lonesome - Adam Faith 13 14 12 13 17 12 5750
                                                10 14 Let There Be Drums - Sandy Nelson 14 18 16 15 13 13 5140
                                                23 15 Jeannie - Danny Williams 16 16 14 18 15 16 4900
                                                13 16 The Twist - Chubby Checker 18 17 16 19 17 3790
                                                20 17 Wimoweh - Karl Denver 17 23 14 16 20 3590
                                                28 18 Don't Stop - Twist - Frankie Vaughan 20 20 20 19 26 3010
                                                15 19 The Comancheros - Lonnie Donegan 15 15 12 14 2740
                                                19 20 Moon River - Danny Williams 30 18 17 28 2490
                                                21 21 Peppermint Twist - Joey Dee and The Starliters 19 11 17 2440
                                                18 22 Midnight In Moscow - Kenny Ball 22 15 18 2070
                                                14 23 The Lion Sleeps Tonight - The Tokens 21 18 22 1720
                                                27 24 D-Darling - Anthony Newley 24 20 25 1290
                                                NEW 25 Norman - Carol Deene 20 1210
                                                24 26 Johnny Will - Pat Boone 19 15 1200
                                                29 27 A Little Bitty Tear - Miki and Griff 25 21 780
                                                16 28 The Language Of Love - John D. Loudermilk 27 23 560
                                                NEW 29 It's A Raggy Waltz - Dave Brubeck 26 400
                                                NEW 30 Softly As I Leave You - Matt Monro 28 240
                                                Can't Help Falling In Love - Elvis Presley 19
                                                Lessons In Love - The Allisons 28 240
                                                Son This Is She - John Leyton 24 210
                                                You're The Only Good Thing - Jim Reeves 27 120
                                                There Goes That Song Again - Gary Miller 29 60
                                                So Long Baby - Del Shannon 30 30
                                                The Ultimate Averaged Chart. The Definitive Chart Reflecting The Sixties.

                                                Comment


                                                • Originally posted by Graham76man View Post
                                                  Gambo I find with most companies what they intended to do is not what happens in practice. In this cases a release date is the "intention" and the "practice" is that it gets sent out before, maybe not to all places, but to some. This could be down to the pressing plant errors, communication problems, or just somebody being stupid along the long chain of organisations involved in sending records out to the shops. The bigger the organisation the chances of screwing things increase no end. The Official Chart people, being no different. However they probably have agreements with the record industry, to stick by certain rules. So if record sales crop up before the record company has confirmed any date, they would remove such sales from the charts. I think that most people on this site are aware that on a show after the chart show on Radio One, one Sunday years ago. There was a spokesperson from the OCC talking about the problems involved with doing a chart in such a short turnover time. And they highlighted that due to a barcode error, packets of KP Salted Peanuts were racing up the record charts, and nearly made the countdown till somebody noticed that it wasn't a record!
                                                  There's no way anyone from OCC would have appeared on Radio 1 back then, the company wasn't formed until 1990 under its original name of Chart Information Network and didn't adopt the Official Chart name until 1998..

                                                  Comment


                                                  • Originally posted by Richard M White View Post

                                                    There's no way anyone from OCC would have appeared on Radio 1 back then, the company wasn't formed until 1990 under its original name of Chart Information Network and didn't adopt the Official Chart name until 1998..
                                                    To be quite honest I don't really care what the chart makers call themselves, I would call CIN as the "Complete, Idiots, Numbskulls", the BBC the Bake Bean Company. I have also used the term (on here) "Offal" to describe the "O" of the OCC. And the broadcast was in the 1990's, since it would have been hard to get "Bar Code Readings" of anything before then!
                                                    And Record Mirror carried the "Official Chart" well before it was adopted in 1998. Gallup used the term "Official" also.
                                                    Education for anyone aged 12 to 16 has made a mess of the world!

                                                    Comment

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