Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

The Ultimate Averaged Chart - The BBC Chart Re-Imagined

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Graham's explanation of the RR statement makes sense. It would also account for why it was lower in RR than other charts.

    But when Billboard compiled their specialist charts (eg Easy Listening) I have always assumed they extracted them from a master list rather than ask dealers to list them separately

    Comment


    • Billboard collected playlists from stations across the country and I remember reading something like 4,000 dealers (shops) returned sales in the fifties. Now that’s just a snapshot at a time when they printed that. In the early 60’s the easy listening chart was an extraction in the same order as those easy listening records on the Hot 100 even down to the chart having odd numbers of positions each week. Eventually they got playlist from middle of the road stations. America had a radio station for every kind of music. So just like today with Heart FM or Classic FM they would play one specific type of music. Each state had lots like that so those playlists got gathered and collated with sales for the charts.

      I’m adding Country singles to the database at the minute and the late 70’s are terrible. 20 new entries a week. Most spend a few weeks and then vanish and number 1’s spend just one week at the top (that’s on average). All because playlists seem to be (I have no evidence) weighted more than sales.
      http://thechartbook.co.uk - for the latest are best chart book - By Decade!
      Now including NME, Record Mirror and Melody Maker from the UK and some Billboard charts

      Comment


      • Yes I had applied the 'extraction' concept to EPs, but when I think about it they must have required dealers to fill in a separate form for EPs to get a valid 15 places. And as Graham says it is easy to imagine confusion about whether to put them on the main list as well, which explains the statement.

        I do think that the RR moritoriom on EPs is another weakness of theirs. For example, the Guinness list of Beatles hits includes Magical Mystery Tour but e

        Comment


        • excludes Twist And Shout.

          Comment


          • Yeah, I also registered what kingofskiffle says. The logic of those charts escaped me. The only conclusion I was able to reach was that the BB charts of the time did not follow any reasonable statistically expected sales pattern so their main source could not be sales based.

            Comment


            • Just before the MMT EP was released the RR/RM EP chart had come to an end. MMT had to go somewhere due to its high sales so it was put in the singles chart. America solved this problem by issuing a MMT LP instead.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Splodj View Post
                Yes I had applied the 'extraction' concept to EPs, but when I think about it they must have required dealers to fill in a separate form for EPs to get a valid 15 places. And as Graham says it is easy to imagine confusion about whether to put them on the main list as well, which explains the statement.

                I do think that the RR moritoriom on EPs is another weakness of theirs. For example, the Guinness list of Beatles hits includes Magical Mystery Tour but excludes Twist And Shout.
                But that is easily explained when the Record Retailer chart was using EPs and when it ended the EP charts. By 1967 the EP charts were stagnant with records that were selling in such low numbers they didn't even make the Real Chart top 100! So Record Retailer ended the EP chart. A week or so later the Beatles released the Magical Mystery Tour EP. Presumably EMI knew that the EP charts were ending on a certain week and left it to release the EP that week. With no EP chart, EPs once again qualified for the chart.
                And of course those stagnant EP charts meant that dealers were definitely filling in separate returns for the EP charts. Otherwise you would need dealers making out top 100 or 200 best sellers to get the EP's to make a chart up!

                It's funny that your posts are getting split up!
                Education for anyone aged 12 to 16 has made a mess of the world!

                Comment


                • I did know why MMT is the only EP to be recognised as an 'official' hit, just think it is unfair to exclude the others. Where are they? When I go to the Official Chart website and search for 'Twist and Shout' by the Beatles, they say it charted in November 2010. Any EP that sells well from July 1962 until December 1967 is effectively lost in the invisible RR EP chart.

                  (cue advert from kingofskiffle!)

                  Comment


                  • Well, since you want the advert......

                    Yes, I have an EP book and they are all listed in there. https://www.thechartbook.co.uk/the-d...rts-1960-1967/. Thats a link to the EP book.

                    I do agree with you that these high sellers are excluded, and it isn't right, but we get exclusions today and always have. Should Mid Price LP's be excluded in the 1970's? Should Compilations have been excluded in 1989?

                    In 1967 on the Top 10 EP chart only 26 EP's charted during the calendar year (Well, 50 chart weeks of a Top 10). To be fair, it was always a pretty 'quiet' chart. 1960 - 101 chart hits, 1961 95, 1962 86, 1963 88, 1964 103, 1965 91 and 1966 73. 1966 was when the chart reduced to a Top 10 from the Top 20 it had been almost from the start.

                    Melody Makers EP chart stopped in 1963 on 25 May. In that year the chart had 16 EP's for the "calendar year" (i.e. the 21 chart weeks). A chart dominated by Elvis and the Shadows. Unsurprising given when it ended and that it was only ever a Top 10.
                    http://thechartbook.co.uk - for the latest are best chart book - By Decade!
                    Now including NME, Record Mirror and Melody Maker from the UK and some Billboard charts

                    Comment


                    • Oh and I should also mention that the RR chart EP's is included in the Graham Betts books and in his artist history sections. It was also included (right at the back and error filled) in the Virgin Hit Singles Vol 2 in 2009.
                      http://thechartbook.co.uk - for the latest are best chart book - By Decade!
                      Now including NME, Record Mirror and Melody Maker from the UK and some Billboard charts

                      Comment


                      • The other EP book I have is George R.White, 35 Years Of British Hit EP's, it lists the complete RR EP chart 1960 to 1967. Outwith those years it lists EP's that made the Singles Chart before and after 60 to 67. Section one is the artist list of charted EP's including track details and section two lists the week by week charts until its demise in 1967. It's a great reference book.
                        The Record Mirror Singles Chart 1954 - 1961 Revised Re-Calculated And Extended

                        The Biggest Chart Of The Fifties

                        Comment


                        • Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending July 7th 1962

                          The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending July 7th 1962 NME MM DISC RR Total
                          Last This The Sound Survey Stores 80 110 50 30 Points
                          Week Week The Top 30 Singles Chart BBC TOP 30 Scored
                          3 1 A Picture Of You - Joe Brown 1 1 2 1 2 7960
                          1 2 Come Outside - Mike Sarne 2 3 1 2 1 7890
                          2 3 Good Luck Charm - Elvis Presley 3 4 3 3 3 7480
                          8 4 I Can't Stop Loving You - Ray Charles 4 2 4 4 4 7450
                          4 5 I'm Looking Out The Window / Do You Want To Dance - Cliff Richard 5= 6 5 5 6 6910
                          5 6 Ginny Come Lately - Brian Hyland 5= 5 6 6 5 6860
                          6 7 Last Night Was Made For Love - Billy Fury 7 9 7 7 11 6200
                          10 8 The Green Leaves Of Summer - Kenny Ball 8 8 12 11 7 5650
                          15 9 English Country Garden - Jimmie Rodgers 9 10 10 10 12 5610
                          7 10 I Don't Know Why - Eden Kane 11 14 9 8 15 5410
                          11 11 Stranger On The Shore - Mr. Acker Bilk 12 12 8 19 9 5310
                          16 12 Here Comes That Feeling - Brenda Lee 10 7 15 9 14 5290
                          9 13 As You Like It - Adam Faith 14 15 11 13 13 4920
                          14 14 Ain't That Funny - Jimmy Justice 13 13 14 15 8 4800
                          21 15 Yes My Darling Daughter - Eydie Gorme 15= 16 16 12 16 4250
                          12 16 Three Stars Will Shine Tonight - Richard Chamberlain 17 20 13 14 17 4130
                          18 17 Sharing You - Bobby Vee 15= 17 17 16 10 4040
                          26 18 Our Favourite Melodies - Craig Douglas 19 18 21 17 21 3140
                          20 19 A Little Love A Little Kiss - Karl Denver 22 23 18 20 2580
                          13 20 Nut Rocker - B. Bumble and The Stingers 20 18 19 2440
                          30 21 Don't Ever Change - The Crickets 20 22 18 2260
                          22 22 Follow That Dream (EP) - Elvis Presley 18 11 20 2150
                          19 23 Unsquare Dance - Dave Brubeck 26 20 24 1820
                          17 24 How Can I Meet Her - The Everly Brothers 19 22 1590
                          NEW 25 Ya Ya Twist - Petula Clark 23 25 1300
                          NEW 26 I Remember You - Frank Ifield 18 1040
                          24 27 Jezebel - Marty Wilde 24 23 1010
                          NEW 28 Tears - Danny Williams 23 29 860
                          23 29 Lonely City - John Leyton 26 28 640
                          27 30 Soldier Boy - The Shirelles 28 26 480
                          Do You Want To Dance - Cliff Richard 25
                          B Al Di La - Emilio Pericoli 27 440
                          B Palisades Park - Freddy Cannon 29 25 340
                          B Right Said Fred - Bernard Cribbins 27 320
                          Johnny Get Angry - Joanie Sommers 28 240
                          Far Away - Shirley Bassey 30 27 230
                          Orange Blosson Special - The Spotnicks 29 29 220
                          Steel Men - Rog Whittaker 29 160
                          Conscience - James Darren 30 30
                          25 Love Letters - Ketty Lester
                          28 Wonderful Land - The Shadows
                          29 Lover Please - The Vernons Girls
                          The Record Mirror Singles Chart 1954 - 1961 Revised Re-Calculated And Extended

                          The Biggest Chart Of The Fifties

                          Comment


                          • Splodj wondered if it would happen. I can conform it has, Joe Brown holds #1 in The Ultimate Averaged Chart.
                            The Record Mirror Singles Chart 1954 - 1961 Revised Re-Calculated And Extended

                            The Biggest Chart Of The Fifties

                            Comment


                            • Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending July 14th 1962

                              The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending July 14th 1962 NME MM DISC RR Total
                              Last This The Sound Survey Stores 80 110 50 30 Points
                              Week Week The Top 30 Singles Chart BBC TOP 30 Scored
                              4 1 I Can't Stop Loving You - Ray Charles 1 1 2 1 1 7990
                              1 2 A Picture Of You - Joe Brown 2 2 1 2 3 7910
                              2 3 Come Outside - Mike Sarne 3 3 3 3 2 7590
                              3 4 Good Luck Charm - Elvis Presley 4 5 4 5 4 7160
                              6 5 Ginny Come Lately - Brian Hyland 5 6 6 6 5 6780
                              5 6 I'm Looking Out The Window / Do You Want To Dance - Cliff Richard 6 9 5 7 6 6570
                              26 7 I Remember You - Frank Ifield 7 4 9 4 11 6530
                              12 8 Here Comes That Feeling - Brenda Lee 8 7 11 8 7 5990
                              7 9 Last Night Was Made For Love - Billy Fury 10 11 7 9 12 5910
                              9 10 English Country Garden - Jimmie Rodgers 9 8 10 12 8 5790
                              8 11 The Green Leaves Of Summer - Kenny Ball 12 10 12 13 15 5150
                              15 12 Yes My Darling Daughter - Eydie Gorme 11 15 13 10 10 4940
                              11 13 Stranger On The Shore - Mr. Acker Bilk 16 14 8 17 4310
                              21 14 Don't Ever Change - The Crickets 13 12 18 14 14 4310
                              14 15 Ain't That Funny - Jimmy Justice 14 18 14 17 9 4270
                              18 16 Our Favourite Melodies - Craig Douglas 15 13 19 11 16 4210
                              17 17 Sharing You - Bobby Vee 17 19 15 15 13 4060
                              10 18 I Don't Know Why - Eden Kane 18 23 16 18 18 3330
                              NEW 19 Right Said Fred - Bernard Cribbins 19 17 21 16 21 3270
                              16 20 Three Stars Will Shine Tonight - Richard Chamberlain 27 20 19 24 2340
                              13 21 As You Like It - Adam Faith 20 26 17 19 2300
                              25 22 Ya Ya Twist - Petula Clark 20 23 23 2000
                              19 23 A Little Love A Little Kiss - Karl Denver 22 24 22 1760
                              NEW 24 Al Di La - Emilio Pericoli 29 22 20 1700
                              NEW 25 Palisades Park - Freddy Cannon 25 25 20 1470
                              22 26 Follow That Dream (EP) - Elvis Presley 15 1280
                              28 27 Tears - Danny Williams 23 28 25 1150
                              NEW 28 Speedy Gonzales - Pat Boone 21 800
                              23 29 Unsquare Dance - Dave Brubeck 26 27 670
                              24 30 How Can I Meet Her - The Everly Brothers 27 440
                              Do You Want To Dance - Cliff Richard 28
                              20 Nut Rocker - B. Bumble and The Stingers 29 26 370
                              30 Soldier Boy - The Shirelles 30 110
                              Far Away - Shirley Bassey 28 90
                              B Little Miss Lonely - Helen Shapiro 30 80
                              Orange Blossom Special - The Spotnicks 29 60
                              B I'm Just A Baby - Louise Cordet 30 30
                              27 Jezebel - Marty Wilde
                              29 Lonely City - John Leyton
                              The Record Mirror Singles Chart 1954 - 1961 Revised Re-Calculated And Extended

                              The Biggest Chart Of The Fifties

                              Comment


                              • Pat Boone debuts this week with his best ever hit. Once you get that 'la la la' in your head it never leaves again.
                                The Record Mirror Singles Chart 1954 - 1961 Revised Re-Calculated And Extended

                                The Biggest Chart Of The Fifties

                                Comment


                                • Good to see Joe Brown got a week at the top on the UAC. It's a good song that I've liked as long as I've known of it. Back in early 1986 I was working evenings and weekends in a pub in north west London. The landlord had a 1960s music tape that was played over and over again and one of the songs on the tape was 'A Picture Of You'. It may be where I first heard the song, I'm not sure, but despite hearing it dozens of times I never got fed up with it.

                                  Comment


                                  • I've also had a fondness for A Picture Of You; some nice chord sequences. I would think Joe Brown is not the only artist who feels they have been robbed, but have not seen any other victim comment on it.

                                    Originally posted by Graham76man View Post
                                    So Record Retailer ended the EP chart. A week or so later the Beatles released the Magical Mystery Tour EP. Presumably EMI knew that the EP charts were ending on a certain week and left it to release the EP that week. With no EP chart, EPs once again qualified for the chart.
                                    I doubt EMI would have given a nanosecond of thought to the antics of Record Retailer in deciding when to release MMT. In 1967 no-one would have thought RR would one day be regarded as 'official'.

                                    Comment


                                    • At 5pm on 15th June, the Beatles made their second ap
                                      Last edited by Splodj; Thu March 25, 2021, 10:56.

                                      Comment


                                      • appearance on the BBC Light Programme. One of the songs they played was 'A Picture Of You'.

                                        Since their first appearance Lennon and McCartney had written a song which they also played; 'Ask Me Why'.

                                        Comment


                                        • Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending July 21st 1962

                                          The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending July 21st 1962 NME MM DISC RR Total
                                          Last This The Sound Survey Stores 80 110 50 30 Points
                                          Week Week The Top 30 Singles Chart BBC TOP 30 Scored
                                          1 1 I Can't Stop Loving You - Ray Charles 1 2 1 2 1 7970
                                          7 2 I Remember You - Frank Ifield 2 1 3 1 2 7850
                                          2 3 A Picture Of You - Joe Brown 3 3 2 3 3 7670
                                          3 4 Come Outside - Mike Sarne 4 4 4 4 4 7290
                                          4 5 Good Luck Charm - Elvis Presley 5 6 5 7 6 6810
                                          10 6 English Country Garden - Jimmie Rodgers 6 9 6 5 5 6590
                                          8 7 Here Comes That Feeling - Brenda Lee 7 7 7 9 7 6380
                                          5 8 Ginny Come Lately - Brian Hyland 9 13 8 11 8 5660
                                          14 9 Don't Ever Change - The Crickets 10 8 11 10 12 5660
                                          28 10 Speedy Gonzales - Pat Boone 8 5 14 8 13 5640
                                          12 11 Yes My Darling Daughter - Eydie Gorme 12 12 12 13 11 5110
                                          16 12 Our Favourite Melodies - Craig Douglas 11 10 19 6 9 4910
                                          6 13 I'm Looking Out The Window / Do You Want To Dance - Cliff Richard 13 20 9 12 10 4880
                                          11 14 The Green Leaves Of Summer - Kenny Ball 17 16 13 17 18 4270
                                          19 15 Right Said Fred - Bernard Cribbins 14 15 17 14 17 4090
                                          9 16 Last Night Was Made For Love - Billy Fury 15= 19 15 15 14 4030
                                          17 17 Sharing You - Bobby Vee 18 16 18 16 16 3830
                                          15 18 Ain't That Funny - Jimmy Justice 15= 11 16 15 3730
                                          22 19 Ya Ya Twist - Petula Clark 20 14 20 19 20 3500
                                          13 20 Stranger On The Shore - Mr. Acker Bilk 19 21 10 19 3470
                                          NEW 21 Little Miss Lonely - Helen Shapiro 18 21 18 23 3030
                                          25 22 Palisades Park - Freddy Cannon 22 23 20 24 2360
                                          21 23 As You Like It - Adam Faith 22 21 1290
                                          18 24 I Don't Know Why - Eden Kane 30 24 25 1030
                                          23 25 A Little Love A Little Kiss - Karl Denver 25 28 26 960
                                          27 26 Tears - Danny Williams 25 22 930
                                          24 27 Al Di La - Emilio Pericoli 30 26 30 660
                                          NEW 28 Let There With Love - Nat King Cole with George Shearing 23 640
                                          NEW 29 Cindy's Birthday - Shane Fenton and The Fentones 27 29 28 630
                                          NEW 30 I'm Just A Baby - Louise Cordet 26 30 27 630
                                          26 Follow That Dream (EP) - Elvis Presley 24 560
                                          20 Three Stars Will Shine Tonight - Richard Chamberlain 27 440
                                          Far Away - Shirley Bassey 28 240
                                          B Breaking Up Is Hard To Do - Neil Sedaka 29 160
                                          B Adios Amigo - Jim Reeves 30 80
                                          Orange Blossom Special - The Spotnicks 29 60
                                          29 Unsquare Dance - Dave Brubeck
                                          30 How Can I Meet Her - The Everly Brothers
                                          The Record Mirror Singles Chart 1954 - 1961 Revised Re-Calculated And Extended

                                          The Biggest Chart Of The Fifties

                                          Comment


                                          • Below the Top 30 I've now been adding the last week positions and the Breakers that will chart for quite a few of the weekly charts posted. Do you find this added information useful or too much of a clutter ?
                                            The Record Mirror Singles Chart 1954 - 1961 Revised Re-Calculated And Extended

                                            The Biggest Chart Of The Fifties

                                            Comment


                                            • As I've said, I do not think it is clutter.

                                              We were talking about records banned by the BBC and one candidate often mentioned is Black Girl by The Four Pennies. There is a thread on 45cat containing a record review saying the record was likely to be banned, which appears to be the origination of the myth that it was. No evidence that it was actually banned. Played twice on TOTP while in the 21-30 positions. (It peaked at 21 for 2 weeks.)
                                              Last edited by Splodj; Fri March 26, 2021, 11:46.

                                              Comment


                                              • It looks fine to me too. Prior to including last week positions / Breakers I couldn't always tell what were older hits on the way out and what were newer hits on the way up. The only other indicator I would add is if a title does not chart in the UAC - maybe this could be indicated with DNC or simply an X.

                                                Comment


                                                • Yes, looks great to me.
                                                  http://thechartbook.co.uk - for the latest are best chart book - By Decade!
                                                  Now including NME, Record Mirror and Melody Maker from the UK and some Billboard charts

                                                  Comment


                                                  • Yes Mr T this is definitely an improvement on your format.

                                                    Re 'A Picture Of You', I'm sure I remember 'Uncle' Pete Waterman extolling its virtues in an old (probably 2000s) documentary and citing it as one of his early inspirations that made him want to go into writing and producing pop music. Depending on which way you look at that, Joe Brown had a lot to answer for..!!

                                                    Comment

                                                    Working...
                                                    X