The Ultimate Averaged Chart - The BBC Chart Re-Imagined

[Splodj]

Graham's explanation of the RR statement makes sense. It would also account for why it was lower in RR than other charts.

But when Billboard compiled their specialist charts (eg Easy Listening) I have always assumed they extracted them from a master list rather than ask dealers to list them separately

[kingofskiffle]

Billboard collected playlists from stations across the country and I remember reading something like 4,000 dealers (shops) returned sales in the fifties. Now that’s just a snapshot at a time when they printed that. In the early 60’s the easy listening chart was an extraction in the same order as those easy listening records on the Hot 100 even down to the chart having odd numbers of positions each week. Eventually they got playlist from middle of the road stations. America had a radio station for every kind of music. So just like today with Heart FM or Classic FM they would play one specific type of music. Each state had lots like that so those playlists got gathered and collated with sales for the charts.

I’m adding Country singles to the database at the minute and the late 70’s are terrible. 20 new entries a week. Most spend a few weeks and then vanish and number 1’s spend just one week at the top (that’s on average). All because playlists seem to be (I have no evidence) weighted more than sales.

[Splodj]

Yes I had applied the 'extraction' concept to EPs, but when I think about it they must have required dealers to fill in a separate form for EPs to get a valid 15 places. And as Graham says it is easy to imagine confusion about whether to put them on the main list as well, which explains the statement.

I do think that the RR moritoriom on EPs is another weakness of theirs. For example, the Guinness list of Beatles hits includes Magical Mystery Tour but e

[Splodj]

excludes Twist And Shout.

[kjell]

Yeah, I also registered what kingofskiffle says. The logic of those charts escaped me. The only conclusion I was able to reach was that the BB charts of the time did not follow any reasonable statistically expected sales pattern so their main source could not be sales based.

[brian05]

Just before the MMT EP was released the RR/RM EP chart had come to an end. MMT had to go somewhere due to its high sales so it was put in the singles chart. America solved this problem by issuing a MMT LP instead.

[Graham76man]

Yes I had applied the 'extraction' concept to EPs, but when I think about it they must have required dealers to fill in a separate form for EPs to get a valid 15 places. And as Graham says it is easy to imagine confusion about whether to put them on the main list as well, which explains the statement.

I do think that the RR moritoriom on EPs is another weakness of theirs. For example, the Guinness list of Beatles hits includes Magical Mystery Tour but excludes Twist And Shout.

But that is easily explained when the Record Retailer chart was using EPs and when it ended the EP charts. By 1967 the EP charts were stagnant with records that were selling in such low numbers they didn't even make the Real Chart top 100! So Record Retailer ended the EP chart. A week or so later the Beatles released the Magical Mystery Tour EP. Presumably EMI knew that the EP charts were ending on a certain week and left it to release the EP that week. With no EP chart, EPs once again qualified for the chart.
And of course those stagnant EP charts meant that dealers were definitely filling in separate returns for the EP charts. Otherwise you would need dealers making out top 100 or 200 best sellers to get the EP's to make a chart up!

It's funny that your posts are getting split up!

[Splodj]

I did know why MMT is the only EP to be recognised as an 'official' hit, just think it is unfair to exclude the others. Where are they? When I go to the Official Chart website and search for 'Twist and Shout' by the Beatles, they say it charted in November 2010. Any EP that sells well from July 1962 until December 1967 is effectively lost in the invisible RR EP chart.

(cue advert from kingofskiffle!)

[kingofskiffle]

Well, since you want the advert......

Yes, I have an EP book and they are all listed in there. https://www.thechartbook.co.uk/the-d...rts-1960-1967/. Thats a link to the EP book.

I do agree with you that these high sellers are excluded, and it isn't right, but we get exclusions today and always have. Should Mid Price LP's be excluded in the 1970's? Should Compilations have been excluded in 1989?

In 1967 on the Top 10 EP chart only 26 EP's charted during the calendar year (Well, 50 chart weeks of a Top 10). To be fair, it was always a pretty 'quiet' chart. 1960 - 101 chart hits, 1961 95, 1962 86, 1963 88, 1964 103, 1965 91 and 1966 73. 1966 was when the chart reduced to a Top 10 from the Top 20 it had been almost from the start.

Melody Makers EP chart stopped in 1963 on 25 May. In that year the chart had 16 EP's for the "calendar year" (i.e. the 21 chart weeks). A chart dominated by Elvis and the Shadows. Unsurprising given when it ended and that it was only ever a Top 10.

[kingofskiffle]

Oh and I should also mention that the RR chart EP's is included in the Graham Betts books and in his artist history sections. It was also included (right at the back and error filled) in the Virgin Hit Singles Vol 2 in 2009.

[MrTibbs]

The other EP book I have is George R.White, 35 Years Of British Hit EP's, it lists the complete RR EP chart 1960 to 1967. Outwith those years it lists EP's that made the Singles Chart before and after 60 to 67. Section one is the artist list of charted EP's including track details and section two lists the week by week charts until its demise in 1967. It's a great reference book.

[MrTibbs]

Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending July 7th 1962

The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending July 7th 1962								NME	MM	DISC	RR	Total
Last	This		The Sound Survey				Stores	80	110	50	30	Points
Week	Week		The Top 30 Singles Chart				BBC			TOP	30	Scored
3	1	A Picture Of You - Joe Brown					1	1	2	1	2	7960
1	2	Come Outside - Mike Sarne					2	3	1	2	1	7890
2	3	Good Luck Charm - Elvis Presley					3	4	3	3	3	7480
8	4	I Can't Stop Loving You - Ray Charles					4	2	4	4	4	7450
4	5	I'm Looking Out The Window / Do You Want To Dance - Cliff Richard					5=	6	5	5	6	6910
5	6	Ginny Come Lately - Brian Hyland					5=	5	6	6	5	6860
6	7	Last Night Was Made For Love - Billy Fury					7	9	7	7	11	6200
10	8	The Green Leaves Of Summer - Kenny Ball					8	8	12	11	7	5650
15	9	English Country Garden - Jimmie Rodgers					9	10	10	10	12	5610
7	10	I Don't Know Why - Eden Kane					11	14	9	8	15	5410
11	11	Stranger On The Shore - Mr. Acker Bilk					12	12	8	19	9	5310
16	12	Here Comes That Feeling - Brenda Lee					10	7	15	9	14	5290
9	13	As You Like It - Adam Faith					14	15	11	13	13	4920
14	14	Ain't That Funny - Jimmy Justice					13	13	14	15	8	4800
21	15	Yes My Darling Daughter - Eydie Gorme					15=	16	16	12	16	4250
12	16	Three Stars Will Shine Tonight - Richard Chamberlain					17	20	13	14	17	4130
18	17	Sharing You - Bobby Vee					15=	17	17	16	10	4040
26	18	Our Favourite Melodies - Craig Douglas					19	18	21	17	21	3140
20	19	A Little Love A Little Kiss - Karl Denver						22	23	18	20	2580
13	20	Nut Rocker - B. Bumble and The Stingers					20		18		19	2440
30	21	Don't Ever Change - The Crickets						20	22		18	2260
22	22	Follow That Dream (EP) - Elvis Presley					18	11		20		2150
19	23	Unsquare Dance - Dave Brubeck						26	20		24	1820
17	24	How Can I Meet Her - The Everly Brothers							19		22	1590
NEW	25	Ya Ya Twist - Petula Clark						23	25			1300
NEW	26	I Remember You - Frank Ifield						18				1040
24	27	Jezebel - Marty Wilde							24		23	1010
NEW	28	Tears - Danny Williams						23	29			860
23	29	Lonely City - John Leyton							26		28	640
27	30	Soldier Boy - The Shirelles							28		26	480
		Do You Want To Dance - Cliff Richard						25
B		Al Di La - Emilio Pericoli							27			440
B		Palisades Park - Freddy Cannon						29			25	340
B		Right Said Fred - Bernard Cribbins						27				320
		Johnny Get Angry - Joanie Sommers						28				240
		Far Away - Shirley Bassey							30		27	230
		Orange Blosson Special - The Spotnicks						29			29	220
		Steel Men - Rog Whittaker						29				160
		Conscience - James Darren									30	30
25		Love Letters - Ketty Lester
28		Wonderful Land - The Shadows
29		Lover Please - The Vernons Girls

[MrTibbs]

Splodj wondered if it would happen. I can conform it has, Joe Brown holds #1 in The Ultimate Averaged Chart.

[MrTibbs]

Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending July 14th 1962

The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending July 14th 1962								NME	MM	DISC	RR	Total
Last	This		The Sound Survey				Stores	80	110	50	30	Points
Week	Week		The Top 30 Singles Chart				BBC			TOP	30	Scored
4	1	I Can't Stop Loving You - Ray Charles					1	1	2	1	1	7990
1	2	A Picture Of You - Joe Brown					2	2	1	2	3	7910
2	3	Come Outside - Mike Sarne					3	3	3	3	2	7590
3	4	Good Luck Charm - Elvis Presley					4	5	4	5	4	7160
6	5	Ginny Come Lately - Brian Hyland					5	6	6	6	5	6780
5	6	I'm Looking Out The Window / Do You Want To Dance - Cliff Richard					6	9	5	7	6	6570
26	7	I Remember You - Frank Ifield					7	4	9	4	11	6530
12	8	Here Comes That Feeling - Brenda Lee					8	7	11	8	7	5990
7	9	Last Night Was Made For Love - Billy Fury					10	11	7	9	12	5910
9	10	English Country Garden - Jimmie Rodgers					9	8	10	12	8	5790
8	11	The Green Leaves Of Summer - Kenny Ball					12	10	12	13	15	5150
15	12	Yes My Darling Daughter - Eydie Gorme					11	15	13	10	10	4940
11	13	Stranger On The Shore - Mr. Acker Bilk					16	14	8		17	4310
21	14	Don't Ever Change - The Crickets					13	12	18	14	14	4310
14	15	Ain't That Funny - Jimmy Justice					14	18	14	17	9	4270
18	16	Our Favourite Melodies - Craig Douglas					15	13	19	11	16	4210
17	17	Sharing You - Bobby Vee					17	19	15	15	13	4060
10	18	I Don't Know Why - Eden Kane					18	23	16	18	18	3330
NEW	19	Right Said Fred - Bernard Cribbins					19	17	21	16	21	3270
16	20	Three Stars Will Shine Tonight - Richard Chamberlain						27	20	19	24	2340
13	21	As You Like It - Adam Faith					20	26	17		19	2300
25	22	Ya Ya Twist - Petula Clark						20	23		23	2000
19	23	A Little Love A Little Kiss - Karl Denver						22	24		22	1760
NEW	24	Al Di La - Emilio Pericoli						29	22	20		1700
NEW	25	Palisades Park - Freddy Cannon						25	25		20	1470
22	26	Follow That Dream (EP) - Elvis Presley						15				1280
28	27	Tears - Danny Williams						23	28		25	1150
NEW	28	Speedy Gonzales - Pat Boone						21				800
23	29	Unsquare Dance - Dave Brubeck							26		27	670
24	30	How Can I Meet Her - The Everly Brothers							27			440
		Do You Want To Dance - Cliff Richard						28
20		Nut Rocker - B. Bumble and The Stingers							29		26	370
30		Soldier Boy - The Shirelles							30			110
		Far Away - Shirley Bassey									28	90
B		Little Miss Lonely - Helen Shapiro						30				80
		Orange Blossom Special - The Spotnicks									29	60
B		I'm Just A Baby - Louise Cordet									30	30
27		Jezebel - Marty Wilde
29		Lonely City - John Leyton

[MrTibbs]

Pat Boone debuts this week with his best ever hit. Once you get that 'la la la' in your head it never leaves again.

[Robbie]

Good to see Joe Brown got a week at the top on the UAC. It's a good song that I've liked as long as I've known of it. Back in early 1986 I was working evenings and weekends in a pub in north west London. The landlord had a 1960s music tape that was played over and over again and one of the songs on the tape was 'A Picture Of You'. It may be where I first heard the song, I'm not sure, but despite hearing it dozens of times I never got fed up with it.

[Splodj]

I've also had a fondness for A Picture Of You; some nice chord sequences. I would think Joe Brown is not the only artist who feels they have been robbed, but have not seen any other victim comment on it.

So Record Retailer ended the EP chart. A week or so later the Beatles released the Magical Mystery Tour EP. Presumably EMI knew that the EP charts were ending on a certain week and left it to release the EP that week. With no EP chart, EPs once again qualified for the chart.

I doubt EMI would have given a nanosecond of thought to the antics of Record Retailer in deciding when to release MMT. In 1967 no-one would have thought RR would one day be regarded as 'official'.

[Splodj]

At 5pm on 15th June, the Beatles made their second ap

[Splodj]

appearance on the BBC Light Programme. One of the songs they played was 'A Picture Of You'.

Since their first appearance Lennon and McCartney had written a song which they also played; 'Ask Me Why'.

[MrTibbs]

Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending July 21st 1962

The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending July 21st 1962								NME	MM	DISC	RR	Total
Last	This		The Sound Survey				Stores	80	110	50	30	Points
Week	Week		The Top 30 Singles Chart				BBC			TOP	30	Scored
1	1	I Can't Stop Loving You - Ray Charles					1	2	1	2	1	7970
7	2	I Remember You - Frank Ifield					2	1	3	1	2	7850
2	3	A Picture Of You - Joe Brown					3	3	2	3	3	7670
3	4	Come Outside - Mike Sarne					4	4	4	4	4	7290
4	5	Good Luck Charm - Elvis Presley					5	6	5	7	6	6810
10	6	English Country Garden - Jimmie Rodgers					6	9	6	5	5	6590
8	7	Here Comes That Feeling - Brenda Lee					7	7	7	9	7	6380
5	8	Ginny Come Lately - Brian Hyland					9	13	8	11	8	5660
14	9	Don't Ever Change - The Crickets					10	8	11	10	12	5660
28	10	Speedy Gonzales - Pat Boone					8	5	14	8	13	5640
12	11	Yes My Darling Daughter - Eydie Gorme					12	12	12	13	11	5110
16	12	Our Favourite Melodies - Craig Douglas					11	10	19	6	9	4910
6	13	I'm Looking Out The Window / Do You Want To Dance - Cliff Richard					13	20	9	12	10	4880
11	14	The Green Leaves Of Summer - Kenny Ball					17	16	13	17	18	4270
19	15	Right Said Fred - Bernard Cribbins					14	15	17	14	17	4090
9	16	Last Night Was Made For Love - Billy Fury					15=	19	15	15	14	4030
17	17	Sharing You - Bobby Vee					18	16	18	16	16	3830
15	18	Ain't That Funny - Jimmy Justice					15=	11	16		15	3730
22	19	Ya Ya Twist - Petula Clark					20	14	20	19	20	3500
13	20	Stranger On The Shore - Mr. Acker Bilk					19	21	10		19	3470
NEW	21	Little Miss Lonely - Helen Shapiro						18	21	18	23	3030
25	22	Palisades Park - Freddy Cannon						22	23	20	24	2360
21	23	As You Like It - Adam Faith							22		21	1290
18	24	I Don't Know Why - Eden Kane						30	24		25	1030
23	25	A Little Love A Little Kiss - Karl Denver						25	28		26	960
27	26	Tears - Danny Williams							25		22	930
24	27	Al Di La - Emilio Pericoli						30	26		30	660
NEW	28	Let There With Love - Nat King Cole with George Shearing						23				640
NEW	29	Cindy's Birthday - Shane Fenton and The Fentones						27	29		28	630
NEW	30	I'm Just A Baby - Louise Cordet						26	30		27	630
26		Follow That Dream (EP) - Elvis Presley						24				560
20		Three Stars Will Shine Tonight - Richard Chamberlain							27			440
		Far Away - Shirley Bassey						28				240
B		Breaking Up Is Hard To Do - Neil Sedaka						29				160
B		Adios Amigo - Jim Reeves						30				80
		Orange Blossom Special - The Spotnicks									29	60
29		Unsquare Dance - Dave Brubeck
30		How Can I Meet Her - The Everly Brothers

[MrTibbs]

Below the Top 30 I've now been adding the last week positions and the Breakers that will chart for quite a few of the weekly charts posted. Do you find this added information useful or too much of a clutter ?

[Splodj]

As I've said, I do not think it is clutter.

We were talking about records banned by the BBC and one candidate often mentioned is Black Girl by The Four Pennies. There is a thread on 45cat containing a record review saying the record was likely to be banned, which appears to be the origination of the myth that it was. No evidence that it was actually banned. Played twice on TOTP while in the 21-30 positions. (It peaked at 21 for 2 weeks.)

[Robbie]

It looks fine to me too. Prior to including last week positions / Breakers I couldn't always tell what were older hits on the way out and what were newer hits on the way up. The only other indicator I would add is if a title does not chart in the UAC - maybe this could be indicated with DNC or simply an X.

[kingofskiffle]

Yes, looks great to me.

[Gambo]

Yes Mr T this is definitely an improvement on your format.

Re 'A Picture Of You', I'm sure I remember 'Uncle' Pete Waterman extolling its virtues in an old (probably 2000s) documentary and citing it as one of his early inspirations that made him want to go into writing and producing pop music. Depending on which way you look at that, Joe Brown had a lot to answer for..!!