The Ultimate Averaged Chart - The BBC Chart Re-Imagined

[RokinRobinOfLocksley]

I forgot to mention, though some of us know about this, and maybe some of us are checking this as Brian charts the Ultimate for us week by week. Terry O'Brien has posted the audio contents of historical Pick of the Pops shows that have been recovered / discovered / turned over to him, over at Popscene. He recently (Oct 2020) started a brand new thread to update all his POTP data from 1955-1967. This is invaluable for us to compare against the Dave/Trevor BBC chart file, and note corrections that need to be made. Terry's gatherings are a work in progress, over many years, and more audio recordings are discovered every week. Link here:

https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/pops...d--t14678.html

Terry is also running a facebook page of the same, POTP + Solid Gold 60 + Top 20 Recoveries 1955-1977, dedicated to finding missing BBC Light Programme and Radio 1 + 2 chart shows, and posting when old shows are found. And if any of us have any old shows, or know of anyone who has any, we need to introduce them to Terry so he can get it all documented. This is a private facebook group, but I encourage all you chart nuts to join up and contribute:

https://www.facebook.com/groups/2223615914523004

Rock on...

[Splodj]

Yeah a good run of POTP data until June 1963, with just a few gaps, which will make it easy to check any upcoming oddities in the Beeb chart.

One thing I am looking out for in the Ultimate is the appearance of Bachelor Boy. Came in at 2 on the BBC chart, but they did not properly account for the N M E split sides.

Correction - just noticed it did N t come in at 2 but went from 15 to 2. So not another contender for entry at 1.

[MrTibbs]

One thing I am looking out for in the Ultimate is the appearance of Bachelor Boy. Came in at 2 on the BBC chart, but they did not properly account for the N M E split sides.

Yeah the BBC just took the highest position of the two sides and ignored the lower. This is strange considering how they would average out (as I do for The Ultimate) the other charts for an EP position because they were ignored by RR. I would therefore have thought that they would have done similar where the split affected the overall chart position on NME (again like I do). But as we know the BBC had no consistency in chart compilation and checking for errors.

On that subject, on the 29th of June 1963 the BBC has 4 calculation errors within the Top 10 alone resulting in wrong chart positions. I at first thought it might be one of those weeks when the RR chart was not included, like Robin mentioned, but no even excluding that the figures don't tally.

[MrTibbs]

Greetings Pop Pickers !

Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending August 25th 1962

The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending August 25th 1962								NME	MM	DISC	RR	Total
Last	This		The Sound Survey				Stores	80	110	50	30	Points
Week	Week		The Top 30 Singles Chart				BBC			TOP	30	Scored
1	1	I Remember You - Frank Ifield					1	1	1	2	1	8050
2	2	Speedy Gonzales - Pat Boone					2	2	2	1	2	7880
5	3	Things - Bobby Darin					3	3	3	3	3	7560
4	4	Guitar Tango - The Shadows					4	4	4	4	4	7290
10	5	Roses Are Red - Ronnie Carroll					5	4	6	5	5	6990
3	6	I Can't Stop Loving You - Ray Charles					6	6	5	7	6	6810
8	7	Once Upon A Dream - Billy Fury					7	7	7	6	7	6530
15	8	Sealed With A Kiss - Brian Hyland					8	8	8	8	8	6210
12	9	Breaking Up Is Hard To Do - Neil Sedaka					9	9	10	9	9	5830
11	10	Let There Be Love - Nat King Cole with George Shearing					10	10	12	10	12	5390
6	11	Don't Ever Change - The Crickets					11	14	9	12	10	5360
9	12	Little Miss Lonely - Helen Shapiro					12	11	11	13	11	5300
7	13	A Picture Of You - Joe Brown					13	12	13	14	13	4890
17	14	Roses Are Red - Bobby Vinton					14	15	16	11	15	4410
19	15	Vacation - Connie Francis					15	13	17	15	14	4290
22	16	I'm Just A Baby - Louise Cordet					16	20	15		16	3090
13	17	Here Comes That Feeling - Brenda Lee					18	23	18	19	17	3090
NEW	18	So Do I - Kenny Ball					17	15	25	16	29	2750
14	19	Right Said Fred - Bernard Cribbins					19	24	14		23	2670
NEW	20	Ballad Of Paladin - Duane Eddy					20	19	24	17	27	2550
16	21	Come Outside - Mike Sarne						22	19		18	2430
26	22	Dancin' Party - Chubby Checker						17	23		20	2330
29	23	Theme From 'The Man With The Golden Arm' / Some People- Jet Harris						18	26	20	26	2290
NEW	24	Pick A Bale Of Cotton - Lonnie Donegan						20	27	18	21	2270
18	25	English Country Garden - Jimmie Rodgers						25	20		19	2050
21	26	Stranger On The Shore - Mr. Acker Bilk						28	21		22	1610
20	27	Ya Ya Twist - Petula Clark							22		25	1170
30	28	Gotta See Baby Tonight - Mr. Acker Bilk						30	28		24	620
25	29	Follow That Dream (EP) - Elvis Presley						26				400
NEW	30	Spanish Harlem - Jimmy Justice						27				320
B		Peter And The Wolf - The Clyde Valley Stompers							29			220
		You Know What I Mean / Lover Please - The Vernons Girls						29				160
		Sharing You - Bobby Vee							30			110
X		Welcome Home Baby - The Brook Brothers							30			110
28		Adios Amigo - Jim Reeves									28	90
27		Cindy's Birthday - Shane Fenton and The Fentones									30	30
23		Good Luck Charm - Elvis Presley
24		Our Favourite Melodies - Craig Douglas
		B - Will Chart
		X - Won't Chart

[MrTibbs]

Lonnie Donegan enters with what will be his last chart hit. He spearheaded the influential and successful skiffle phase in the mid to late fifties and influenced many others (including some guy called John Lennon) to pick up the baton and experiment with new sounds. We will always be in Lonnie's debt for his huge contribution and innovation he brought to British popular music. My dad was a huge fan of his.

Ironically the same John Lennon as part of The Beatles will within months sweep away Lonnie and so many other established acts never to return as the beat group phenomena takes hold and heralds a new exciting time.

Bring it on ! Out with the old and in with the new. My era beckons

[Splodj]

Indeed. Beatles about to record Love Me Do, although it wasn't released until late October by which time they were working on

[Splodj]

I Saw Her Standing There. I think that would have charted higher.

I don't think the BBC charts ever could have been published without a good deal of cleaning up.

[RokinRobinOfLocksley]

Speaking of Lonnie Donegan, he's got a new 3-CD compilation coming out on April 16. Titled "Gold", on the Crimson label, featuring 60 tracks.

[Gambo]

At the risk of sounding pedantic Splodj, 'LMD' was issued early October (the 5th)! Probably one of the few actual single release dates that 'regular' people (i.e. not chartographers!) might come to know/care about as the Fab Four's first release proper. That doesn't detract from your overall point of course.

[MrTibbs]

His 'Gamblin' Man' was years ahead of its time. My dad played it to death. One of his hits, I can't remember which had the line' two old ladies sitting in the sand each one wishing the other was a man'. Brilliant stuff.

[kingofskiffle]

That was Cumberland Gap. The next line is the song title, coming off the Chorus. Dad was a huge fan (my real name is Lonnie as I think some know here) and I was named because my parents liked the name. I got to meet him once and being a precocious 5 year old (This was 1989 or so I think) I went him to him at the interval and explained I was a real Lonnie (I knew that Lonnie was just his stage name). I latter found out he was tickled pink about the encounter. I also asked him to play My Old Mans a Dustman which was my favourite song (at hat point).

[MrTibbs]

By the way guys, another file you may want to alter, the file of The Disc Singles Charts here on UK Mix has another big error. This time from 1963. From 20th July until the end of first run on 5th October the Disc chart run here on UK Mix lists The Beatles No 1 (EP), this is wrong it should be the Twist And Shout (EP).
The No 1 (EP) didn't come out till the beginning of November.

[Splodj]

At the risk of sounding pedantic Splodj, 'LMD' was issued early October (the 5th)!

You are right of course. As Lennon said: "The best thing was it came into the charts in two days ..". The w/e 13-Oct chart indeed represented only 2 days of sales.

However, also in 'Anthology', McCartney says: "George got his way and Ringo didn't drum on the first single ..." and then talks about how dispiriting this was. But the single version did feature Ringo, presumably because Martin knew it would be dispiriting for the group otherwise. When it came to the LP Martin then sneaked in the Andy White version (presumably the version he preferred) which became the default thereafter.

[MrTibbs]

I can't believe it, here's another one. On July 27th 1963 the BBC chart manuscript does not list numbers 24, 25, and 26.

[Splodj]

Ironic that one of Donnie's few misses up to 'Pick a bale of cotton' was his previous release - 'I'll never fall in love again'.

[MrTibbs]

Greetings Pop Pickers !

Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending September 1st 1962

The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending September 1st 1962								NME	MM	DISC	RR	Total
Last	This		The Sound Survey				Stores	80	110	50	30	Points
Week	Week		The Top 30 Singles Chart				BBC			TOP	30	Scored
1	1	I Remember You - Frank Ifield					1	1	1	3	1	8000
2	2	Speedy Gonzales - Pat Boone					2	3	2	1	2	7800
3	3	Things - Bobby Darin					3=	4	3	5	3	7380
5	4	Roses Are Red - Ronnie Carroll					3=	2	5	2	6	7380
4	5	Guitar Tango - The Shadows					5	5	4	4	4	7210
8	6	Sealed With A Kiss - Brian Hyland					6	6	6	6	5	6780
7	7	Once Upon A Dream - Billy Fury					7	8	7	7	7	6400
9	8	Breaking Up Is Hard To Do - Neil Sedaka					8	7	9	8	8	6180
6	9	I Can't Stop Loving You - Ray Charles					9	9	8	9	9	6050
10	10	Let There Be Love - Nat King Cole with George Shearing					10	12	10	12	12	5350
15	11	Vacation - Connie Francis					12	13	13	18	10	4700
20	12	Ballad Of Paladin - Duane Eddy					13	10	17	11	17	4640
18	13	So Do I - Kenny Ball					11	11	18	10	14	4590
12	14	Little Miss Lonely - Helen Shapiro					14	19	12	19	11	4250
11	15	Don't Ever Change - The Crickets					16	20	11	16	18	4220
23	16	Theme From 'The Man With The Golden Arm' / Some People - Jet Harris					17	16	16	14	20	4030
24	17	Pick A Bale Of Cotton - Lonnie Donegan					15	16	20	13	15	3790
14	18	Roses Are Red - Bobby Vinton					18	15	19	15	21	3700
13	19	A Picture Of You - Joe Brown						23	14		16	2960
16	20	I'm Just A Baby - Louise Cordet					19	24	15		13	2860
NEW	21	She's Not You - Elvis Presley					20	13	25	17		2800
22	22	Dancin' Party - Chubby Checker						20	24		19	2010
21	23	Come Outside - Mike Sarne							21		26	1250
26	24	Stranger On The Shore - Mr. Acker Bilk							23		23	1120
30	25	Spanish Harlem - Jimmy Justice						24		20		1110
19	26	Right Said Fred - Bernard Cribbins						30	22			1070
NEW	27	Will I What - Mike Sarne						18				1040
17	28	Here Comes That Feeling - Brenda Lee							26		22	820
NEW	29	Don't That Beat All - Adam Faith						22				720
NEW	30	Peter And The Wolf - The Clyde Valley Stompers						27	30		25	610
		* The BBC transcript again has an error this week. It lists both Brian Hyland and Neil Sedaka at #8 but Bobby clearly would have been #6.
28		Gotta See Baby Tonight - Mr. Acker Bilk						29	29		24	590
25		English Country Garden - Jimmie Rogers							27		28	530
X		Some People (EP) - Valerie Mountain and The Eagles						26				400
27		Ya Ya Twist - Petula Clark							28		29	390
		Adios Amigo - Jim Reeves						27			30	350
B		Some People - Carol Deene									27	120
29		Follow That Dream (EP) - Elvis Presley
		B - Will Chart
		X - Won't Chart

[MrTibbs]

Greetings Pop Pickers !

Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending September 8th 1962

The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending September 8th 1962								NME	MM	DISC	RR	Total
Last	This		The Sound Survey				Stores	80	110	50	30	Points
Week	Week		The Top 30 Singles Chart				BBC			TOP	30	Scored
1	1	I Remember You - Frank Ifield					1	1	1	3	1	8000
3	2	Things - Bobby Darin					2	3	2	5	2	7600
2	3	Speedy Gonzales - Pat Boone					3=	4	3	2	5	7470
4	4	Roses Are Red - Ronnie Carroll					3=	2	4	4	4	7450
6	5	Sealed With A Kiss - Brian Hyland					5	5	5	7	3	6980
21	6	She's Not You - Elvis Presley					6	6	9	1	8	6610
5	7	Guitar Tango - The Shadows					7	8	6	6	6	6590
8	8	Breaking Up Is Hard To Do - Neil Sedaka					8	7	7	8	7	6430
7	9	Once Upon A Dream - Billy Fury					9	10	8	9	9	5970
12	10	Ballad Of Paladin - Duane Eddy					10	11	11	10	12	5420
9	11	I Can't Stop Loving You - Ray Charles					11	12	10	17	10	5160
NEW	12	It'll Be Me - Cliff Richard					12	9	15	11	17	4940
16	13	Theme From 'The Man With The Golden Arm' / Some People - Jet Harris					13=	17	13	12	14	4560
10	14	Let There Be Love - Nat King Cole with George Shearing					15=	18	12	16	13	4420
13	15	So Do I - Kenny Ball					15=	16	14	13	16	4420
17	16	Pick A Bale Of Cotton - Lonnie Donegan					13=	13	18	14	11	4320
11	17	Vacation - Connie Francis					17=	20	16	18	15	3660
29	18	Don't That Beat All - Adam Faith					17=	14	22	15	19	3510
27	19	Will I What - Mike Sarne					19	15	23	19	23	3000
20	20	I'm Just A Baby - Louise Cordet					20		17		20	1870
15	21	Don't Ever Change - The Crickets						27	19		24	1850
14	22	Little Miss Lonely - Helen Shapiro						29	20		18	1760
25	23	Spanish Harlem - Jimmy Justice						24	29	20	21	1630
19	24	A Picture Of You - Joe Brown							21		25	1280
NEW	25	Some People - Carol Deene						19			30	990
22	26	Dancin' Party - Chubby Checker						30	26		22	900
24	27	Stranger On The Shore - Mr. Acker Bilk							24		27	890
18	28	Roses Are Red - Bobby Vinton						26	27			840
30	29	Peter And The Wolf - The Clyde Valley Stompers							25		26	810
NEW	30	The Loco-Motion - Little Eva						22				720
		Some People - Jet Harris						21
		Some People (EP) - Valerie Mountain and The Eagles						22				720
		Adios Amigo - Jim Reeves						24			28	650
B		What Now My Love - Shirley Bassey						27			29	380
B		Sheila - Tommy Roe							28			330
B		Telstar - The Tornados							30			110
23		Come Outside - Mike Sarne
26		Right Said Fred - Bernard Cribbins
28		Here Comes That Feeling - Brenda Lee
		B - Will Chart
		X - Won't Chart

[kjell]

Now the memories are returning. The UAC has now come to the time when I as a teenager had just moved to the town of Molde to get an upper secondary education, and I soon learned that there I could hear Radio Luxembourg loud and clear. A musical adventure compared to my home village framed by mountains. The then only Norwegian radio channel did not play pop music.

[Splodj]

It appears that the BBC error on 1-Sep has caused some confusion, as Sealed With A Kiss is by Brian Hyland and not Bobby Vinton.

[brian05]

She's Not You - Elvis Presley

Went from 17 to 1 in Disc, yet went from 25 to 9 in MM. A big difference there.

[Robbie]

The above chart covers the very day (4 September 1962) when the single version of 'Love Me Do' was recorded (the recording session included Ringo Starr on drums, the album version, with Andy White on drums, was recorded a week later on 11 September 1962). The recording followed three weeks of turmoil for The Beatles following the sacking of Pete Best.

Future turmoil would be reserved for the musical styles and acts that faded away in the wake of the success of The Beatles. Unless I'm mistaken, there isn't one vocal group in the top 20. A year later the look of the charts had changed completely.

[Splodj]

George Martin's famous remark upon the recording of Please Please Me, "Congratulations gentlemen, you've just recorded your first number one" has a sad ring to it today.

[RokinRobinOfLocksley]

George Martin's famous remark upon the recording of Please Please Me, "Congratulations gentlemen, you've just recorded your first number one" has a sad ring to it today.

A sad ring for revisionist history, and music fans who don't know the facts, but a joy for actual truth! As true chartists, we are to FIGHT for truth and history, and bring it to the masses who've been indoctrinated with revisionism. I do it all the time, in the many forums and blogs I frequent, and some occasional one off visits. In book reviews on Amazon etc (which reminds me, I still need to respond to the new 'official' chart books of the 60s). I take every opportunity to tell the truth, and expose it to others. The responses I get are interesting, most times others are thankful for the hidden truth being revealed. Occasionally some are stubborn and refuse to acknowledge history and logic. A new line I'm going to start using: how can a company that did not exist prior to Feb 1969 decide in 2001 what was 'official' for 1963? It's ridiculous, and hilarious, and I do have fun explaining it all, ha... Never quit, never give in, never never never !!

[MrTibbs]

It appears that the BBC error on 1-Sep has caused some confusion, as Sealed With A Kiss is by Brian Hyland and not Bobby Vinton.

Sorry that was my error not the BBC. I had been listening to the Bobby Vinton later version and it obviously stayed on my mind lol. I have amended the chart above.

[MrTibbs]

She's Not You - Elvis Presley

Went from 17 to 1 in Disc, yet went from 25 to 9 in MM. A big difference there.

Yeah Brian, it never ceases to surprise me how often big, not small, differences occur between the charts. Although RR was by far the worst culprit all the others had their odd patterns at times too.