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The Ultimate Averaged Chart - The BBC Chart Re-Imagined

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  • I forgot to mention, though some of us know about this, and maybe some of us are checking this as Brian charts the Ultimate for us week by week. Terry O'Brien has posted the audio contents of historical Pick of the Pops shows that have been recovered / discovered / turned over to him, over at Popscene. He recently (Oct 2020) started a brand new thread to update all his POTP data from 1955-1967. This is invaluable for us to compare against the Dave/Trevor BBC chart file, and note corrections that need to be made. Terry's gatherings are a work in progress, over many years, and more audio recordings are discovered every week. Link here:

    https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/pops...d--t14678.html

    Terry is also running a facebook page of the same, POTP + Solid Gold 60 + Top 20 Recoveries 1955-1977, dedicated to finding missing BBC Light Programme and Radio 1 + 2 chart shows, and posting when old shows are found. And if any of us have any old shows, or know of anyone who has any, we need to introduce them to Terry so he can get it all documented. This is a private facebook group, but I encourage all you chart nuts to join up and contribute:

    https://www.facebook.com/groups/2223615914523004

    Rock on...

    Comment


    • Yeah a good run of POTP data until June 1963, with just a few gaps, which will make it easy to check any upcoming oddities in the Beeb chart.

      One thing I am looking out for in the Ultimate is the appearance of Bachelor Boy. Came in at 2 on the BBC chart, but they did not properly account for the N M E split sides.

      Correction - just noticed it did N t come in at 2 but went from 15 to 2. So not another contender for entry at 1.
      Last edited by Splodj; Mon March 29, 2021, 09:21.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Splodj View Post

        One thing I am looking out for in the Ultimate is the appearance of Bachelor Boy. Came in at 2 on the BBC chart, but they did not properly account for the N M E split sides.
        Yeah the BBC just took the highest position of the two sides and ignored the lower. This is strange considering how they would average out (as I do for The Ultimate) the other charts for an EP position because they were ignored by RR. I would therefore have thought that they would have done similar where the split affected the overall chart position on NME (again like I do). But as we know the BBC had no consistency in chart compilation and checking for errors.

        On that subject, on the 29th of June 1963 the BBC has 4 calculation errors within the Top 10 alone resulting in wrong chart positions. I at first thought it might be one of those weeks when the RR chart was not included, like Robin mentioned, but no even excluding that the figures don't tally.
        The Record Mirror Chart Re-Calculated, Re-Worked, Extended

        The Biggest Chart Of The Time

        Comment


        • Greetings Pop Pickers !

          Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending August 25th 1962

          The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending August 25th 1962 NME MM DISC RR Total
          Last This The Sound Survey Stores 80 110 50 30 Points
          Week Week The Top 30 Singles Chart BBC TOP 30 Scored
          1 1 I Remember You - Frank Ifield 1 1 1 2 1 8050
          2 2 Speedy Gonzales - Pat Boone 2 2 2 1 2 7880
          5 3 Things - Bobby Darin 3 3 3 3 3 7560
          4 4 Guitar Tango - The Shadows 4 4 4 4 4 7290
          10 5 Roses Are Red - Ronnie Carroll 5 4 6 5 5 6990
          3 6 I Can't Stop Loving You - Ray Charles 6 6 5 7 6 6810
          8 7 Once Upon A Dream - Billy Fury 7 7 7 6 7 6530
          15 8 Sealed With A Kiss - Brian Hyland 8 8 8 8 8 6210
          12 9 Breaking Up Is Hard To Do - Neil Sedaka 9 9 10 9 9 5830
          11 10 Let There Be Love - Nat King Cole with George Shearing 10 10 12 10 12 5390
          6 11 Don't Ever Change - The Crickets 11 14 9 12 10 5360
          9 12 Little Miss Lonely - Helen Shapiro 12 11 11 13 11 5300
          7 13 A Picture Of You - Joe Brown 13 12 13 14 13 4890
          17 14 Roses Are Red - Bobby Vinton 14 15 16 11 15 4410
          19 15 Vacation - Connie Francis 15 13 17 15 14 4290
          22 16 I'm Just A Baby - Louise Cordet 16 20 15 16 3090
          13 17 Here Comes That Feeling - Brenda Lee 18 23 18 19 17 3090
          NEW 18 So Do I - Kenny Ball 17 15 25 16 29 2750
          14 19 Right Said Fred - Bernard Cribbins 19 24 14 23 2670
          NEW 20 Ballad Of Paladin - Duane Eddy 20 19 24 17 27 2550
          16 21 Come Outside - Mike Sarne 22 19 18 2430
          26 22 Dancin' Party - Chubby Checker 17 23 20 2330
          29 23 Theme From 'The Man With The Golden Arm' / Some People- Jet Harris 18 26 20 26 2290
          NEW 24 Pick A Bale Of Cotton - Lonnie Donegan 20 27 18 21 2270
          18 25 English Country Garden - Jimmie Rodgers 25 20 19 2050
          21 26 Stranger On The Shore - Mr. Acker Bilk 28 21 22 1610
          20 27 Ya Ya Twist - Petula Clark 22 25 1170
          30 28 Gotta See Baby Tonight - Mr. Acker Bilk 30 28 24 620
          25 29 Follow That Dream (EP) - Elvis Presley 26 400
          NEW 30 Spanish Harlem - Jimmy Justice 27 320
          B Peter And The Wolf - The Clyde Valley Stompers 29 220
          You Know What I Mean / Lover Please - The Vernons Girls 29 160
          Sharing You - Bobby Vee 30 110
          X Welcome Home Baby - The Brook Brothers 30 110
          28 Adios Amigo - Jim Reeves 28 90
          27 Cindy's Birthday - Shane Fenton and The Fentones 30 30
          23 Good Luck Charm - Elvis Presley
          24 Our Favourite Melodies - Craig Douglas
          B - Will Chart
          X - Won't Chart
          The Record Mirror Chart Re-Calculated, Re-Worked, Extended

          The Biggest Chart Of The Time

          Comment


          • Lonnie Donegan enters with what will be his last chart hit. He spearheaded the influential and successful skiffle phase in the mid to late fifties and influenced many others (including some guy called John Lennon) to pick up the baton and experiment with new sounds. We will always be in Lonnie's debt for his huge contribution and innovation he brought to British popular music. My dad was a huge fan of his.

            Ironically the same John Lennon as part of The Beatles will within months sweep away Lonnie and so many other established acts never to return as the beat group phenomena takes hold and heralds a new exciting time.

            Bring it on ! Out with the old and in with the new. My era beckons
            The Record Mirror Chart Re-Calculated, Re-Worked, Extended

            The Biggest Chart Of The Time

            Comment


            • Indeed. Beatles about to record Love Me Do, although it wasn't released until late October by which time they were working on

              Comment


              • I Saw Her Standing There. I think that would have charted higher.

                I don't think the BBC charts ever could have been published without a good deal of cleaning up.

                Comment


                • Speaking of Lonnie Donegan, he's got a new 3-CD compilation coming out on April 16. Titled "Gold", on the Crimson label, featuring 60 tracks.

                  Comment


                  • At the risk of sounding pedantic Splodj, 'LMD' was issued early October (the 5th)! Probably one of the few actual single release dates that 'regular' people (i.e. not chartographers!) might come to know/care about as the Fab Four's first release proper. That doesn't detract from your overall point of course.

                    Comment


                    • His 'Gamblin' Man' was years ahead of its time. My dad played it to death. One of his hits, I can't remember which had the line' two old ladies sitting in the sand each one wishing the other was a man'. Brilliant stuff.
                      The Record Mirror Chart Re-Calculated, Re-Worked, Extended

                      The Biggest Chart Of The Time

                      Comment


                      • That was Cumberland Gap. The next line is the song title, coming off the Chorus. Dad was a huge fan (my real name is Lonnie as I think some know here) and I was named because my parents liked the name. I got to meet him once and being a precocious 5 year old (This was 1989 or so I think) I went him to him at the interval and explained I was a real Lonnie (I knew that Lonnie was just his stage name). I latter found out he was tickled pink about the encounter. I also asked him to play My Old Mans a Dustman which was my favourite song (at hat point).
                        http://thechartbook.co.uk - for the latest are best chart book - By Decade!
                        Now including NME, Record Mirror and Melody Maker from the UK and some Billboard charts

                        Comment


                        • By the way guys, another file you may want to alter, the file of The Disc Singles Charts here on UK Mix has another big error. This time from 1963. From 20th July until the end of first run on 5th October the Disc chart run here on UK Mix lists The Beatles No 1 (EP), this is wrong it should be the Twist And Shout (EP).
                          The No 1 (EP) didn't come out till the beginning of November.
                          The Record Mirror Chart Re-Calculated, Re-Worked, Extended

                          The Biggest Chart Of The Time

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Gambo View Post
                            At the risk of sounding pedantic Splodj, 'LMD' was issued early October (the 5th)!
                            You are right of course. As Lennon said: "The best thing was it came into the charts in two days ..". The w/e 13-Oct chart indeed represented only 2 days of sales.

                            However, also in 'Anthology', McCartney says: "George got his way and Ringo didn't drum on the first single ..." and then talks about how dispiriting this was. But the single version did feature Ringo, presumably because Martin knew it would be dispiriting for the group otherwise. When it came to the LP Martin then sneaked in the Andy White version (presumably the version he preferred) which became the default thereafter.

                            Comment


                            • I can't believe it, here's another one. On July 27th 1963 the BBC chart manuscript does not list numbers 24, 25, and 26.
                              The Record Mirror Chart Re-Calculated, Re-Worked, Extended

                              The Biggest Chart Of The Time

                              Comment


                              • Ironic that one of Donnie's few misses up to 'Pick a bale of cotton' was his previous release - 'I'll never fall in love again'.

                                Comment


                                • Greetings Pop Pickers !

                                  Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending September 1st 1962


                                  The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending September 1st 1962 NME MM DISC RR Total
                                  Last This The Sound Survey Stores 80 110 50 30 Points
                                  Week Week The Top 30 Singles Chart BBC TOP 30 Scored
                                  1 1 I Remember You - Frank Ifield 1 1 1 3 1 8000
                                  2 2 Speedy Gonzales - Pat Boone 2 3 2 1 2 7800
                                  3 3 Things - Bobby Darin 3= 4 3 5 3 7380
                                  5 4 Roses Are Red - Ronnie Carroll 3= 2 5 2 6 7380
                                  4 5 Guitar Tango - The Shadows 5 5 4 4 4 7210
                                  8 6 Sealed With A Kiss - Brian Hyland 6 6 6 6 5 6780
                                  7 7 Once Upon A Dream - Billy Fury 7 8 7 7 7 6400
                                  9 8 Breaking Up Is Hard To Do - Neil Sedaka 8 7 9 8 8 6180
                                  6 9 I Can't Stop Loving You - Ray Charles 9 9 8 9 9 6050
                                  10 10 Let There Be Love - Nat King Cole with George Shearing 10 12 10 12 12 5350
                                  15 11 Vacation - Connie Francis 12 13 13 18 10 4700
                                  20 12 Ballad Of Paladin - Duane Eddy 13 10 17 11 17 4640
                                  18 13 So Do I - Kenny Ball 11 11 18 10 14 4590
                                  12 14 Little Miss Lonely - Helen Shapiro 14 19 12 19 11 4250
                                  11 15 Don't Ever Change - The Crickets 16 20 11 16 18 4220
                                  23 16 Theme From 'The Man With The Golden Arm' / Some People - Jet Harris 17 16 16 14 20 4030
                                  24 17 Pick A Bale Of Cotton - Lonnie Donegan 15 16 20 13 15 3790
                                  14 18 Roses Are Red - Bobby Vinton 18 15 19 15 21 3700
                                  13 19 A Picture Of You - Joe Brown 23 14 16 2960
                                  16 20 I'm Just A Baby - Louise Cordet 19 24 15 13 2860
                                  NEW 21 She's Not You - Elvis Presley 20 13 25 17 2800
                                  22 22 Dancin' Party - Chubby Checker 20 24 19 2010
                                  21 23 Come Outside - Mike Sarne 21 26 1250
                                  26 24 Stranger On The Shore - Mr. Acker Bilk 23 23 1120
                                  30 25 Spanish Harlem - Jimmy Justice 24 20 1110
                                  19 26 Right Said Fred - Bernard Cribbins 30 22 1070
                                  NEW 27 Will I What - Mike Sarne 18 1040
                                  17 28 Here Comes That Feeling - Brenda Lee 26 22 820
                                  NEW 29 Don't That Beat All - Adam Faith 22 720
                                  NEW 30 Peter And The Wolf - The Clyde Valley Stompers 27 30 25 610
                                  * The BBC transcript again has an error this week. It lists both Brian Hyland and Neil Sedaka at #8 but Bobby clearly would have been #6.
                                  28 Gotta See Baby Tonight - Mr. Acker Bilk 29 29 24 590
                                  25 English Country Garden - Jimmie Rogers 27 28 530
                                  X Some People (EP) - Valerie Mountain and The Eagles 26 400
                                  27 Ya Ya Twist - Petula Clark 28 29 390
                                  Adios Amigo - Jim Reeves 27 30 350
                                  B Some People - Carol Deene 27 120
                                  29 Follow That Dream (EP) - Elvis Presley
                                  B - Will Chart
                                  X - Won't Chart
                                  The Record Mirror Chart Re-Calculated, Re-Worked, Extended

                                  The Biggest Chart Of The Time

                                  Comment


                                  • Greetings Pop Pickers !

                                    Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending September 8th 1962

                                    The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending September 8th 1962 NME MM DISC RR Total
                                    Last This The Sound Survey Stores 80 110 50 30 Points
                                    Week Week The Top 30 Singles Chart BBC TOP 30 Scored
                                    1 1 I Remember You - Frank Ifield 1 1 1 3 1 8000
                                    3 2 Things - Bobby Darin 2 3 2 5 2 7600
                                    2 3 Speedy Gonzales - Pat Boone 3= 4 3 2 5 7470
                                    4 4 Roses Are Red - Ronnie Carroll 3= 2 4 4 4 7450
                                    6 5 Sealed With A Kiss - Brian Hyland 5 5 5 7 3 6980
                                    21 6 She's Not You - Elvis Presley 6 6 9 1 8 6610
                                    5 7 Guitar Tango - The Shadows 7 8 6 6 6 6590
                                    8 8 Breaking Up Is Hard To Do - Neil Sedaka 8 7 7 8 7 6430
                                    7 9 Once Upon A Dream - Billy Fury 9 10 8 9 9 5970
                                    12 10 Ballad Of Paladin - Duane Eddy 10 11 11 10 12 5420
                                    9 11 I Can't Stop Loving You - Ray Charles 11 12 10 17 10 5160
                                    NEW 12 It'll Be Me - Cliff Richard 12 9 15 11 17 4940
                                    16 13 Theme From 'The Man With The Golden Arm' / Some People - Jet Harris 13= 17 13 12 14 4560
                                    10 14 Let There Be Love - Nat King Cole with George Shearing 15= 18 12 16 13 4420
                                    13 15 So Do I - Kenny Ball 15= 16 14 13 16 4420
                                    17 16 Pick A Bale Of Cotton - Lonnie Donegan 13= 13 18 14 11 4320
                                    11 17 Vacation - Connie Francis 17= 20 16 18 15 3660
                                    29 18 Don't That Beat All - Adam Faith 17= 14 22 15 19 3510
                                    27 19 Will I What - Mike Sarne 19 15 23 19 23 3000
                                    20 20 I'm Just A Baby - Louise Cordet 20 17 20 1870
                                    15 21 Don't Ever Change - The Crickets 27 19 24 1850
                                    14 22 Little Miss Lonely - Helen Shapiro 29 20 18 1760
                                    25 23 Spanish Harlem - Jimmy Justice 24 29 20 21 1630
                                    19 24 A Picture Of You - Joe Brown 21 25 1280
                                    NEW 25 Some People - Carol Deene 19 30 990
                                    22 26 Dancin' Party - Chubby Checker 30 26 22 900
                                    24 27 Stranger On The Shore - Mr. Acker Bilk 24 27 890
                                    18 28 Roses Are Red - Bobby Vinton 26 27 840
                                    30 29 Peter And The Wolf - The Clyde Valley Stompers 25 26 810
                                    NEW 30 The Loco-Motion - Little Eva 22 720
                                    Some People - Jet Harris 21
                                    Some People (EP) - Valerie Mountain and The Eagles 22 720
                                    Adios Amigo - Jim Reeves 24 28 650
                                    B What Now My Love - Shirley Bassey 27 29 380
                                    B Sheila - Tommy Roe 28 330
                                    B Telstar - The Tornados 30 110
                                    23 Come Outside - Mike Sarne
                                    26 Right Said Fred - Bernard Cribbins
                                    28 Here Comes That Feeling - Brenda Lee
                                    B - Will Chart
                                    X - Won't Chart
                                    The Record Mirror Chart Re-Calculated, Re-Worked, Extended

                                    The Biggest Chart Of The Time

                                    Comment


                                    • Now the memories are returning. The UAC has now come to the time when I as a teenager had just moved to the town of Molde to get an upper secondary education, and I soon learned that there I could hear Radio Luxembourg loud and clear. A musical adventure compared to my home village framed by mountains. The then only Norwegian radio channel did not play pop music.

                                      Comment


                                      • It appears that the BBC error on 1-Sep has caused some confusion, as Sealed With A Kiss is by Brian Hyland and not Bobby Vinton.

                                        Comment


                                        • She's Not You - Elvis Presley

                                          Went from 17 to 1 in Disc, yet went from 25 to 9 in MM. A big difference there.

                                          Comment


                                          • The above chart covers the very day (4 September 1962) when the single version of 'Love Me Do' was recorded (the recording session included Ringo Starr on drums, the album version, with Andy White on drums, was recorded a week later on 11 September 1962). The recording followed three weeks of turmoil for The Beatles following the sacking of Pete Best.

                                            Future turmoil would be reserved for the musical styles and acts that faded away in the wake of the success of The Beatles. Unless I'm mistaken, there isn't one vocal group in the top 20. A year later the look of the charts had changed completely.

                                            Comment


                                            • George Martin's famous remark upon the recording of Please Please Me, "Congratulations gentlemen, you've just recorded your first number one" has a sad ring to it today.

                                              Comment


                                              • Originally posted by Splodj View Post
                                                George Martin's famous remark upon the recording of Please Please Me, "Congratulations gentlemen, you've just recorded your first number one" has a sad ring to it today.
                                                A sad ring for revisionist history, and music fans who don't know the facts, but a joy for actual truth! As true chartists, we are to FIGHT for truth and history, and bring it to the masses who've been indoctrinated with revisionism. I do it all the time, in the many forums and blogs I frequent, and some occasional one off visits. In book reviews on Amazon etc (which reminds me, I still need to respond to the new 'official' chart books of the 60s). I take every opportunity to tell the truth, and expose it to others. The responses I get are interesting, most times others are thankful for the hidden truth being revealed. Occasionally some are stubborn and refuse to acknowledge history and logic. A new line I'm going to start using: how can a company that did not exist prior to Feb 1969 decide in 2001 what was 'official' for 1963? It's ridiculous, and hilarious, and I do have fun explaining it all, ha... Never quit, never give in, never never never !!

                                                Comment


                                                • Originally posted by Splodj View Post
                                                  It appears that the BBC error on 1-Sep has caused some confusion, as Sealed With A Kiss is by Brian Hyland and not Bobby Vinton.
                                                  Sorry that was my error not the BBC. I had been listening to the Bobby Vinton later version and it obviously stayed on my mind lol. I have amended the chart above.
                                                  The Record Mirror Chart Re-Calculated, Re-Worked, Extended

                                                  The Biggest Chart Of The Time

                                                  Comment


                                                  • Originally posted by brian05 View Post
                                                    She's Not You - Elvis Presley

                                                    Went from 17 to 1 in Disc, yet went from 25 to 9 in MM. A big difference there.
                                                    Yeah Brian, it never ceases to surprise me how often big, not small, differences occur between the charts. Although RR was by far the worst culprit all the others had their odd patterns at times too.
                                                    The Record Mirror Chart Re-Calculated, Re-Worked, Extended

                                                    The Biggest Chart Of The Time

                                                    Comment

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