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The Ultimate Averaged Chart - The BBC Chart Re-Imagined

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  • Robbie
    replied
    I would like the UAC to continue beyond 1969. At the moment the three charts have more in common, hence less comments. I believe that 1970 has more variance so I would like to see a UAC for 1970 too. That leaves the question of the cut-off point for when to stop doing the UAC in the 1970s. I think early 1971 had been mentioned. A pivotal point seems to have been the ending of the national postal strike which affected chart returns in February and part of March 1971. When the strike ended the BMRB appear to have developed more robust procedures in for ensuring a sufficient amount of chart returns from shops. Perhaps that was the point where the BMRB chart became more widely accepted?

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  • Splodj
    replied
    What I don't understand is why, if 100 are viewing it, more don't post.

    I think the post-BMRB pattern has been established, and is well illustrated by 'Sugar Sugar'. Once again BMRB is the first to identify a strong number one. I imagine this is because it sold so much more rapidly than other records in key stores and this was not detected by the points system.

    Also, BMRB will keep 'Sugar Sugar' at the top longer than the others. Towards the end of its reign NME will have 3 alternative one-week number ones. It is understandable that as its strength faded this created opportunities for rivals to outscore it on the points system under its 'levelling' effect.
    Last edited by Splodj; Sat July 3, 2021, 10:47.

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  • kingofskiffle
    replied
    It may also have coincided with more going back to work and having less time for this sort of thing...

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  • MrTibbs
    replied
    I don't think the 'fun' UAC is proving as popular post BMRB (maybe not as relevant to most guys as before and therefore in retrospect maybe not so good an idea). Before then it was taking around 200 to 250 hits a day but on some days now it's lucky to be getting up to 100. When I finish 1969 and I can actually post these much quicker to get through them would you guys rather I left it there and reverted to the original plan of doing 56 - 59 thus completing the original project ?

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  • MrTibbs
    replied
    Greetings Pop Pickers !

    Here is the Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending October 25th 1969

    Here are all 'the uppers, the downers, the just hangin' arounders'

    The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending October 25th 1969 NME MM BMRB Total
    Last This The Sound Survey Stores 200 250 100 Points
    Week Week The Top 30 Singles Chart TOP 30 Scored
    1 1 I'll Never Fall In Love Again - Bobbie Gentry 1 1 2 16400
    7 2 I'm Gonna Make You Mine - Lou Christie 2 2 3 15850
    14 3 Sugar Sugar - The Archies 4 3 1 15400
    6 4 He Ain't Heavy He's My Brother - The Hollies 3 4 5 14950
    2 5 Je T'aime..Moi Non Plus - Jane Birkin and Serge Gainsbourg 5 7 4 13900
    10 6 Space Oddity - David Bowie 7 5 6 13800
    4 7 Lay Lady Lay - Bob Dylan 8 6 9 13050
    3 8 A Boy Named Sue - Johnny Cash 6 8 10 12850
    13 9 Oh Well - Fleetwood Mac 9 9 8 12200
    8 10 Nobody's Child - Karen Young 10 10 7 11850
    9 11 It's Getting Better - Mama Cass 12 11 14 10500
    5 12 Bad Moon Rising - Creedence Clearwater Revival 11 12 18 10050
    17 13 Do What You Gotta Do - The Four Tops 14 13 11 9900
    12 14 Good Morning Starshine - Oliver 13 14 12 9750
    26 15 Return Of Django - The Upsetters 15 16 17 8350
    11 16 Throw Down A Line - Cliff Richard and Hank Marvin 18 15 15 8200
    24 17 Love's Been Good To Me - Frank Sinatra 17 17 13 8100
    19 18 Love At First Sight - Sounds Nice 16 18 19 7450
    15 19 Don't Forget To Remember - The Bee Gees 20 19 16 6700
    25 20 Everybody's Talkin' - Nilsson 19 21 23 5700
    16 21 Hare Krishna Mantra - The Radha Krishna Temple 21 20 22 5650
    NEW 22 Delta Lady - Joe Cocker 23 24 20 4450
    18 23 Put Yourself In My Place - The Isley Brothers 24 23 21 4400
    20 24 I Second That Emotion - Diana Ross and The Supremes and The Temptations 25 22 28 3750
    NEW 25 And The Sun Will Shine - Jose Feliciano 22 28 30 2650
    21 26 In The Year 2525 - Zager and Evans 25 25 2100
    23 27 Too Busy Thinking About My Baby - Marvin Gaye 26 27 1400
    27 28 Cloud Nine - The Temptations 26 1250
    NEW 29 Long Shot Kick The Bucket - The Pioneers 27 1000
    NEW 30 What Does It Take - Junior Walker and The All Stars 27 29 1000
    28 Viva Bobby Joe - The Equals 30 24 950
    B Wonderful World Beautiful People - Jimmy Cliff 29 500
    X Penny Arcade - Roy Orbison 28 600
    X For Once In My Life - Dorothy Squires 26 500
    30 The Hunt - Barry Ryan 29 400
    Soul Deep - The Box Tops 30 200
    29 Golden Slumbers/Carry That Weight - Trash 30 200
    22 Natural Born Bugie - Humble Pie

    Leave a comment:


  • MrTibbs
    replied
    Nilsson's biggest moment of glory will come three years later but meantime his first hit which debuts this week is almost remembered just as much.
    Trash, in the absence of The Beatles' own version from Abbey Road take their cover into the Top 30.
    Barry Ryan attempts another epic, although not in the same class as Eloise I thought it deserved to do better than it's chart peak of 30 here.

    Leave a comment:


  • MrTibbs
    replied
    Greetings Pop Pickers !

    Here is the Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending October 18th 1969

    Here are all 'the uppers, the downers, the just hangin' arounders'

    The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending October 18th 1969 NME MM BMRB Total
    Last This The Sound Survey Stores 200 250 100 Points
    Week Week The Top 30 Singles Chart TOP 30 Scored
    1 1 I'll Never Fall In Love Again - Bobbie Gentry 1 1 1 16500
    3 2 Je T'aime..Moi Non Plus - Jane Birkin and Serge Gainsbourg 2 2 2 15950
    4 3 A Boy Named Sue - Johnny Cash 3 3 4 15300
    5 4 Lay Lady Lay - Bob Dylan 4 4 7 14550
    2 5 Bad Moon Rising - Creedence Clearwater Revival 5 5 12 13600
    20 6 He Ain't Heavy He's My Brother - The Hollies 7 7 5 13400
    12 7 I'm Gonna Make You Mine - Lou Christie 6 9 3 13300
    10 8 Nobody's Child - Karen Young 8 8 6 12850
    9 9 It's Getting Better - Mama Cass 11 6 13 12050
    13 10 Space Oddity - David Bowie 9 10 8 11950
    6 11 Throw Down A Line - Cliff Richard and Hank MARVIN 10 11 14 10900
    8 12 Good Morning Starshine - Oliver 13 11 10 10700
    21 13 Oh Well - Fleetwood Mac 12 13 9 10500
    29 14 Sugar Sugar - The Archies 14 16 11 9150
    7 15 Don't Forget To Remember - The Bee Gees 15 14 16 8950
    11 16 Hare Krishna Mantra - Radha Krishna Temple 16 15 15 8600
    22 17 Do What You Gotta Do - The Four Tops 17 17 17 7700
    16 18 Put Yourself In My Place - The Isley Brothers 18 18 22 6750
    19 19 Love At First Sight - Sounds Nice 20 19 18 6500
    18 20 I Second That Emotion - Diana Ross and The Supremes and The Temptations 21 20 19 5950
    14 21 In The Year 2525 - Zager and Evans 24 23 23 4200
    15 22 Natural Born Bugie - Humble Pie 25 21 27 4100
    17 23 Too Busy Thinking About My Baby - Marvin Gaye 22 25 24 4000
    NEW 24 Love's Been Good To Me - Frank Sinatra 23 26 21 3850
    NEW 25 Everybody's Talkin' - Nilsson 19 27 3400
    NEW 26 Return Of Django - The Upsetters 22 20 3350
    24 27 Cloud Nine - The Temptations 26 24 2750
    23 28 Viva Bobby Joe - The Equals 28 25 1350
    NEW 29 Golden Slumbers/Carry That Weight - Trash 27 800
    NEW 30 The Hunt - Barry Ryan 28 600
    25 Soul Deep - The Box Tops 29 500
    X For Once In My Life - Dorothy Squires 26 500
    28 Am I The Same Girl - Dusty Springfield 29 400
    B And The Sun Will Shine - Jose Feliciano 28 300
    27 My Cherie Amour - Stevie Wonder 30 250
    Saved By The Bell - Robin Gibb 29 200
    X Penny Arcade - Roy Orbison 30 200
    B Delta Lady - Joe Cocker 30 100
    26 Birth - The Peddlers
    30 Honky Tonk Women - The Rolling Stones

    Leave a comment:


  • MrTibbs
    replied
    [QUOTE=Splodj;n10658163]The alternative chart was broadcast by the BBC, so was 'published' - in the same way that non-printed material like music is published. I see it as an amendment that the BBC requested ("we can't not play that twice!") which BMRB agreed to and it is what the overwhelming majority of people will have seen and heard as BMRBs placing of the record that week./QUOTE]

    Yeah I remember POTP placing but not playing Je T'aime at number two that week obviously because they wanted it listed in just one position but yeah chart history since reverts to the split positions.
    My memory was proved correct when Dave Taylor supplied me with the alternative chart. I felt it was fairer to use that for The Ultimate Chart.

    On the alternative charts Roy Orbison was at 50 with Penny Arcade on the 4th, and on the 11th Dusty Springfield was at 50 with Am I The Same girl.

    Leave a comment:


  • Splodj
    replied
    Looking back at page 102 where the alternative Top 50s for the two weeks are listed, a question occurs ...

    Why did BMRB recalculate the complete 50?

    For w/e 4-Oct all the BBC would need were the combined position and the new number 30. For w/e 11-Oct the BBC would not need anything; the combined position could not be higher than number one, and the Fontana version at 33 would not present any risk of double mentions.

    Leave a comment:


  • Splodj
    replied
    The alternative chart was broadcast by the BBC, so was 'published' - in the same way that non-printed material like music is published. I see it as an amendment that the BBC requested ("we can't not play that twice!") which BMRB agreed to and it is what the overwhelming majority of people will have seen and heard as BMRBs placing of the record that week.

    Incidentally - as Je T'aime was originally recorded when Gainsbourg had an affair with Brigitte Bardot, it is a pity Mike Sarne didn't do a 'Come Outside' style duet with her when they had an affair!!

    Leave a comment:


  • kingofskiffle
    replied
    The alternative chart was never published and since the accepted history has bene to use what Music Week prints therefore that's the way the chart is recorded for history. In 1976 they fixed this and combined Leader of The Pack, presumably because Radio 1 would have said "we can't play the same song twice".

    Leave a comment:


  • braindeadpj
    replied
    Originally posted by MrTibbs View Post

    BMRB actually compiled an alternative chart for that week brain which combined both versions so i used that as it represented a total for it rather than
    split positions. It never topped NME or MM.
    Thanks for your response, I was not aware of this. I always remember seeing the original chart (in Tony Jaspers Top Twenty book) and thinking what a screw up. Good to know there's an alternative one. So being at both 3 and 16 was not enough to overhaul the no.1...

    OCC uses the original, how about Guinness? BTW what's position 50 on the alternative chart (as everything else should be the 'same').

    Leave a comment:


  • MrTibbs
    replied
    Originally posted by braindeadpj View Post
    BTW how did you handle the fact that Je T'aime was at 3 and 16 in the BMRB due to different record labels, on the 4th October (looks like you had it only at 2 and shifted everything up below 16?).
    So Je T'aime was not a no.1 on NME or MM?
    BMRB actually compiled an alternative chart for that week brain which combined both versions so i used that as it represented a total for it rather than
    split positions. It never topped NME or MM.
    Last edited by MrTibbs; Thu July 1, 2021, 15:18. Reason:

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  • braindeadpj
    replied
    BTW how did you handle the fact that Je T'aime was at 3 and 16 in the BMRB due to different record labels, on the 4th October (looks like you had it only at 2 and shifted everything up below 16?).
    So Je T'aime was not a no.1 on NME or MM?
    Last edited by braindeadpj; Thu July 1, 2021, 15:03.

    Leave a comment:


  • Splodj
    replied
    A rare case (the only one?) of NME and MM putting a record at number one before BMRB. Although this is not because BMRB are clinging on to the previous number one, as is usually the case when the situation is reversed.

    Leave a comment:


  • MrTibbs
    replied
    Greetings Pop Pickers !

    Here is the Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending October 11th 1969

    Here are all 'the uppers, the downers, the just hangin' arounders'

    The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending October 11th 1969 NME MM BMRB Total
    Last This The Sound Survey Stores 200 250 100 Points
    Week Week The Top 30 Singles Chart TOP 30 Scored
    3 1 I'll Never Fall In Love Again - Bobbie Gentry 1 1 2 16400
    1 2 Bad Moon Rising - Creedence Clearwatwer Revival 2 2 3 15850
    2 3 Je T'aime..Moi Non Plus - Jane Birkin and Serge Gainsbourg 3 4 1 15350
    4 4 A Boy Named Sue - Johnny Cash 4 3 4 15100
    12 5 Lay Lady Lay - Bob Dylan 5 6 5 14050
    7 6 Throw Down A Line - Cliff Richard and Hank Marvin 7 5 8 13600
    5 7 Don't Forget To Remember - The Bee Gees 6 9 7 12900
    6 8 Good Morning Starshine - Oliver 8 8 6 12850
    10 9 It's Getting Better - Mama Cass 9 7 9 12600
    18 10 Nobody's Child - Karen Young 10 10 10 11550
    14 11 Hare Krishna Mantra - The Radha Krishna Temple 11 11 12 10900
    21 12 I'm Gonna Make You Mine - Lou Christie 11 12 11 10750
    27 13 Space Oddity - David Bowie 18 13 13 8900
    9 14 In The Year 2525 - Zager and Evans 14 15 18 8700
    8 15 Natural Born Bugie - Humble Pie 16 14 17 8650
    15 16 Put Yourself In My Place - The Isley Brothers 15 16 15 8550
    11 17 Too Busy Thinking About My Baby - Marvin Gaye 13 19 21 7600
    17 18 I Second That Emotion - Diana Ross and The Supremes and The Temptations 17 17 24 7000
    24 19 Love At First Sight - Sounds Nice 19 18 22 6550
    NEW 20 He Ain't Heavy He's My Brother - The Hollies 20 20 16 6450
    NEW 21 Oh Well - Fleetwood Mac 22 21 14 6000
    28 22 Do What You Gotta Do - The Four Tops 20 23 19 5400
    13 23 Viva Bobby Joe - The Equals 23 22 23 4650
    16 24 Cloud Nine - The Temptations 24 25 20 4000
    20 25 Soul Deep - The Box Tops 26 24 2750
    25 26 Birth - The Peddlers 26 26 2250
    19 27 My Cherie Amour - Stevie Wonder 27 27 1400
    NEW 28 Am I The Same Girl - Dusty Springfield 25 1200
    NEW 29 Sugar Sugar - The Archies 28 29 1100
    22 30 Honky Tonk Women - The Rolling Stones 28 28 1050
    23 Saved By The Bell - Robin Gibb 30 30 25 1050
    B Love's Been Good To Me - Frank Sinatra 26 500
    B Everybody's Talkin' - Nilsson 29 400
    I'm A Better Man - Engelbert Humperdinck 29 200
    29 Wet Dream - Max Romeo 30 100
    26 Marrakesh Express - Crosby Stills and Nash
    30 Clean Up Your Own Back Yard - Elvis Presley

    Leave a comment:


  • MrTibbs
    replied
    Two records of opposing quality debut this week. The sublime and endearing Space Oddity by David Bowie which will become a timeless classic, and the appalling, cloying, horrendous Nobody's Child from Karen Young. 'Nuff Said.

    Leave a comment:


  • MrTibbs
    replied
    Greetings Pop Pickers !

    Here is the Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending October 4th 1969

    Here are all 'the uppers, the downers, the just hangin' arounders'

    The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending October 4th 1969 NME MM BMRB Total
    Last This The Sound Survey Stores 200 250 100 Points
    Week Week The Top 30 Singles Chart TOP 30 Scored
    1 1 Bad Moon Rising - Creedence Clearwater Revival 1 1 1 16500
    2 2 Je T'aime..Moi Non Plus - Jane Birkin and Serge Gainsbourg 2 3 2 15700
    4 3 I'll Never Fall In Love Again - Bobbie Gentry 3 2 3 15650
    10 4 A Boy Named Sue - Johnny Cash 5 4 4 14650
    3 5 Don't Forget To Remember - The Bee Gees 4 5 5 14500
    7 6 Good Morning Starshine - Oliver 8 6 6 13350
    11 7 Throw Down A Line - Cliff Richard and Hank Marvin 7 7 7 13200
    6 8 Natural Born Bugie - Humble Pie 9 8 11 12150
    5 9 In The Year 2525 - Zager and Evans 10 9 10 11800
    13 10 It's Getting Better - Mama Cass 11 10 8 11550
    8 11 Too Busy Thinking About My Baby - Marvin Gaye 6 12 15 11350
    21 12 Lay Lady Lay - Bob Dylan 12 11 9 11000
    9 13 Viva Bobby Joe - The Equals 13 13 13 9900
    16 14 Hare Krishna Mantra - The Radha Krishna Temple 15 14 12 9350
    18 15 Put Yourself In My Place - The Isley Brothers 14 16 24 7850
    14 16 Cloud Nine - The Temptations 16 15 30 7100
    27 17 I Second That Emotion - Diana Ross and The Supremes and The Temptations 17 20 17 6950
    NEW 18 Nobody's Child - Karen Young 19 21 14 6600
    12 19 My Cherie Amour - Stevie Wonder 21 18 20 6350
    20 20 Soul Deep - The Box Tops 20 17 25 6300
    25 21 I'm Gonna Make You Mine - Lou Christie 17 23 16 6300
    15 22 Honky Tonk Women - The Rolling Stones 25 19 29 4400
    17 23 Saved By The Bell - Robin Gibb 24 23 21 4400
    28 24 Love At First Sight - Sounds Nice 30 22 18 3750
    19 25 Birth - The Peddlers 23 26 22 3750
    23 26 Marrakesh Express - Crosby Stills and Nash 22 25 3300
    NEW 27 Space Oddity - David Bowie 27 27 19 3000
    NEW 28 Do What You Gotta Do - The Four Tops 25 29 26 2200
    24 29 Wet Dream - Max Romeo 29 28 1150
    29 30 Clean Up Your Own Back Yard - Elvis Presley 27 28 1100
    22 Make Me An Island - Joe Dolan 23 800
    26 I'm A Better Man - Engelbert Humperdinck 27 400
    Tears In The Wind - Chicken Shack 30 250
    B Am I The Same Girl - Dusty Springfield 30 200
    30 Curly - The Move

    Leave a comment:


  • Splodj
    replied
    It is implied there that 'son of a bitch' needed to be bleeped out, rather than done for effect.

    As a general point about Wiki, I notice that the 'official' peak chart position is the only one mentioned for the UK, whereas for the USA they give positions for Billboard, Cashbox and Billboard sub-charts. This doesn't matter much for 'Sue', but in some cases it would be informative to mention the other UK charts even from 1969 on. An obvious example is 'Tapestry', as discussed on the other thread.

    Leave a comment:


  • Metalweb
    replied
    Originally posted by Splodj View Post
    I assume that the bleep in 'A Boy Named Sue' was put in as a joke, because the unexpurgated version on the album reveals the missing words to be merely 'son of a bitch'. Even the BBC could have played that!
    Whole paragraph about censorship of that phrase on wiki....

    A Boy Named Sue - Wikipedia

    Leave a comment:


  • Splodj
    replied
    Originally posted by MrTibbs View Post
    the top ten with general agreement
    Absolute agreement between the Ultimate and BMRB!

    Leave a comment:


  • Splodj
    replied
    I assume that the bleep in 'A Boy Named Sue' was put in as a joke, because the unexpurgated version on the album reveals the missing words to be merely 'son of a bitch'. Even the BBC could have played that!

    Leave a comment:


  • MrTibbs
    replied
    There is a lot of consistency between the three charts again this week in the top ten with general agreement and records at most just one position out between any chart.

    Some good records too around the chart, especially, David Bowie about to break in, Crosby Stills and Nash, Mama Cass, Lou Christie,The Box Tops and Bob Dylan hanging around too.

    Leave a comment:


  • MrTibbs
    replied
    Greetings Pop Pickers !

    Here is the Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending September 27th 1969

    Here are all 'the uppers, the downers, the just hangin' arounders'

    The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending September 27th 1969 NME MM BMRB Total
    Last This The Sound Survey Stores 200 250 100 Points
    Week Week The Top 30 Singles Chart TOP 30 Scored
    1 1 Bad Moon Rising - Creedence Clearwater Revival 1 1 1 16500
    4 2 Je T'aime..Moi Non Plus - Jane Birkin and Serge Gainsbourg 2 3 2 15700
    3 3 Don't Forget To Remember - The Bee Gees 3 2 3 15650
    10 4 I'll Never Fall In Love Again - Bobbie Gentry 4 4 4 14850
    2 5 In The Year 2525 - Zager and Evans 6 5 5 14100
    5 6 Natural Born Bugie - Humble Pie 5 6 6 13950
    8 7 Good Morning Starshine - Oliver 8 7 7 13000
    6 8 Too Busy Thinking About My Baby - Marvin Gaye 7 8 8 12850
    7 9 Viva Bobby Joe - The Equals 9 9 9 12100
    22 10 A Boy Named Sue - Johnny Cash 10 10 10 11550
    18 11 Throw Down A Line - Cliff Richard and Hank Marvin 11 11 14 10700
    9 12 My Cherie Amour - Stevie Wonder 13 12 16 9850
    20 13 It's Getting Better - Mama Cass 14 14 11 9650
    14 14 Cloud Nine - The Temptations 19 13 15 8500
    11 15 Honky Tonk Women - The Rolling Stones 15 16 18 8250
    28 16 Hare Krishna Mantra - The Radha Krishna Temple 12 19 19 8000
    12 17 Saved By The Bell - Robin Gibb 18 15 23 7400
    23 18 Put Yourself In My Place - The Isley Brothers 16 22 13 7050
    16 19 Birth - The Peddlers 17 18 6050
    24 20 Soul Deep - The Box Tops 23 17 22 6000
    27 21 Lay Lady Lay - Bob Dylan 25 20 12 5850
    13 22 Make Me An Island - Joe Dolan 19 21 24 5600
    17 23 Marrakesh Express - Crosby Stills and Nash 22 23 17 5200
    25 24 Wet Dream - Max Romeo 24 25 26 3400
    29 25 I'm Gonna Make You Mine - Lou Christie 21 28 2300
    19 26 I'm A Better Man - Engelbert Humperdinck 24 29 1950
    NEW 27 I Second That Emotion - Diana Ross and the Supremes and The Temptations 27 27 1800
    NEW 28 Love At First Sight - Sounds Nice 26 30 27 1650
    26 29 Clean Up Your Own Back Yard - Elvis Presley 28 21 1600
    15 30 Curly - The Move 30 26 1450
    B Nobody's Child - Karen Young 20 1100
    21 Early In The Morning - Vanity Fare 29 29 30 1000
    30 Tears In The Wind - Chicken Shack 28 750
    B Space Oddity - David Bowie 25 600

    Leave a comment:


  • MrTibbs
    replied
    Originally posted by kingofskiffle View Post
    I really do like how they all agree on the number 1.
    Ha Ha, yeah enjoy the moment, that said they often will, or sometimes two out of the three will agree, but there are some times ahead when there will be a three way split on #1

    Leave a comment:

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