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Oh Man ! Two stunning instrumental new entries this week from The Tornados and Jet Harris and Tony Meehan.
Let The Good Times Roll
Let The Good Times Roll
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The Ultimate Averaged Chart. The Definitive Chart Reflecting The Fifties and Sixties.
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Brian, to summarize your recommended record shop numbers for Feb 1969 to Mar 1971, you propose:
--keeping MM constant at 200 shops
--keeping NME constant at 150
--ramping up BMRB from 100 to 200
This sounds 'relatively' reasonable, though I took the liberty of re-reading all of Alan's articles just for the heck of it. He says MM was at 250-280 shops from 1967-1969, and didn't cut back until May 1971, dropping down to 200. If it were me, I would bump MM up to somewhere between 250-280, going for the average constant of 265.
For NME, Alan has mixed info. Some places he states NME sampled a max of 150 shops, and other places he says some weeks they got up to 200 samples 1964-1967. And they dropped to exactly 100 in 1972. If if were me, I'd do the average constant of 175.
BMRB is a question. In one post (2014) Alan says starting out BMRB barely got above 20% of 300 supposed returns (= 60 shops). In another post (2014), he says they only got 10 to 25% of returns available or valid to use (assuming of 300 = 30 to 75 shops). In a 3rd post (2012), he says BMRB doesn't hold a record of the proportion of early returns, but based on the number of tied positions, the math suggests they only received 20-25% (assuming of 300 = 60 to 75 shops). Going for the max, that would mean 75 shops starting out before ramping up. For the upper end ramp up, in earlier posts above someone found 2 BMRB/BPI reports of 200+ shops prior to 1976, and Cable's book notes 159 out of 299 returns for a specific week in 1976. So a 200 max ramp up sounds reasonable. Thus if it were me, I'd start with 75 shops, then ramp up to 200.
To summarize ME:
--MM 265
--NME 175
--BMRB 75 ramping up to 200
But that's just ME, ha. Rock on...Comment
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The note on 12 Jan 63 doesn't make sense to me I am afraid....http://thechartbook.co.uk - for the latest are best chart book - By Decade!
Now including NME, Record Mirror and Melody Maker from the UK and some Billboard chartsComment
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The Disc Weekly charts that are here on this site have that error Lonnie. The chart on here for 12th January says no 20 is Island Of Dreams by The Tijuana Brass but that is a misprint as it should be The Lonely Bull by The Tijuana Brass. That's how I should have explained it. Sorry .Originally posted by kingofskiffle View PostThe Ultimate Averaged Chart. The Definitive Chart Reflecting The Fifties and Sixties.Comment
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But you have for DISC,
20 The Swiss Maid - Del Shannon
29 The Lonely Bull - The Tijuana Brass.
I'm still confused!Comment
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That researched info is spot on Robin and really fine tunes the figures we have all been discussing and considering.Originally posted by RokinRobinOfLocksley View Post
Your info above is the evidence based research needed to authenticate store returns for the 1969 and beyond period. It is the best we can achieve I believe and I'm happy to run with those baseline figures to produce a chart.
So MM 265
NME 175
RR 75 initially, and rising in stages of 25 every 5 months which is reasonable growth reaching 200 by March 1971.
At last a solution I can work with. Thanks guys for throwing your ideas into the mix to help shape this. We have now got there and I can start to work on 1969 from tomorrow.
The Ultimate Averaged Chart. The Definitive Chart Reflecting The Fifties and Sixties.Comment
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Yeah 29 not 20. Sorted at lastOriginally posted by brian05 View PostThe Ultimate Averaged Chart. The Definitive Chart Reflecting The Fifties and Sixties.Comment
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Greetings Pop Pickers !
Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending January 19th 1963
The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending January 19th 1963 NME MM DISC RR Total Last This The Sound Survey Stores 100 150 50 30 Points Week Week The Top 30 Singles Chart BBC TOP 30 Scored 1 1 The Next Time / Bachelor Boy - Cliff Richard 1 3 1 1 1 9700 3 2 Dance On - The Shadows 2 1 2 2 2 9670 2 3 Return To Sender - Elvis Presley 3 2 3 3 3 9340 11 4 Like I Do - Maureen Evans 4 7 5 7 5 8280 4 5 (Dance With The) Guitar Man - Duane Eddy 6 10 4 8 7 8020 20 6 Globetrotter - The Tornados 5 6 9 4 9 7810 6 7 Lovesick Blues / She Taught Me How To Yodel - Frank Ifield 7 9 8 9 4 7560 5 8 Sun Arise - Rolf Harris 10 13 6 10 8 7290 28 9 Diamonds - Jet Harris and Tony Meehan 8 5 12 6 12 7270 8 10 Go Away Little Girl - Mark Wynter 9 12 7 11 6 7250 13 11 Up On The Roof - Kenny Lynch 11 11 11 5 13 6840 7 12 It Only Took A Minute - Joe Brown 12 16 10 13 11 6150 18 13 Don't You Think It's Time - Mike Berry 13 13 14 12 15 5780 23 14 Comin' Home Baby - Mel Torme 14 8 17 14 18 5640 9 15 Telstar - The Tornados 15 15 13 23 10 5330 10 16 Bobby's Girl - Susan Maughan 16 18 15 15 14 5010 12 17 Let's Dance - Chris Montez 17 21 16 18 16 4350 21 18 He's A Rebel - The Crystals 18 19 18 16 21 4200 14 19 Desafinado - Stan Getz and Charlie Byrd 19 22 19 17 23 3640 16 20 Your Cheating Heart - Ray Charles 20 24 24 20 17 2720 15 21 The Swiss Maid - Del Shannon 21 20 24 20 2330 NEW 22 Just For Kicks - Mike Sarne 22 21 22 22 2220 17 23 A Forever Kind Of Love - Bobby Vee 24= 23 23 24 2210 NEW 24 Little Town Flirt - Del Shannon 23 17 21 1900 29 25 Island Of Dreams - The Springfields 24= 22 29 19 1810 NEW 26 Big Girls Don't Cry - The Four Seasons 24= 20 19 1700 19 27 The Main Attraction - Pat Boone 27 25 25 1080 30 28 Up On The Roof - Julie Grant 27 24 30 27 1050 24 29 Love Me Do - The Beatles 26 28 840 NEW 30 The Lonely Bull - The Tijuana Brass 29= 27 26 750 Bachelor Boy - Cliff Richard 4 X Ruby Ann - Marty Robbins 29= 28 25 600 26 Devil Woman - Marty Robbins 28 27 570 22 Me And My Shadow - Frank Sinatra and Sammy Davis Jnr. 29 29 26 29 510 B All Alone Am I - Brenda Lee 26 500 B Charmaine - The Bachelors 27 30 450 25 Baby Take A Bow - Adam Faith 29 300 B Loop-Di-Loop - Frankie Vaughan 29 200 B The Alley Cat Song - David Thorne 28 150 We're Gonna Go Fishin' - Hank Locklin 30 30 27 Must Be Madison - Joe Loss The Ultimate Averaged Chart. The Definitive Chart Reflecting The Fifties and Sixties.Comment
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I’ve been following this thread for a while now. What a goldmine of information. Regarding Lonely Bull. I don’t think that ever got into any of the top twenty charts.Last edited by TopTwenty; Tue April 13, 2021, 09:04.Comment
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The Next Time / Bachelor Boy - Cliff Richard
NME again out of step - split sides at nos. 3 and 4.
They seem to have changed their policy by December 1965 with the Beatles Day tripper/We can work it out.
Did NME have any further split sides after December 1965?
It seemed to apply to Elvis and Cliff in the early 60s.
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Your example shows huge inconsistency in the NME chart. I find it strange they did not split Day Tripper / We Can Work It Out especially when after this they continued to split sides of another records. They were still doing this as late as 1967 when they split Nancy Sinatra You Only Live Twice / Jackson. On this basis it makes the non splitting of the Beatles single really strange.Originally posted by brian05 View PostThe Ultimate Averaged Chart. The Definitive Chart Reflecting The Fifties and Sixties.Comment
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Welcome to the thread Top Twenty and I am really pleased you find it informative.. You are right The Lonely Bull will peak at No 30 for one week on The Ultimate Averaged Chart.Originally posted by TopTwenty View PostThe Ultimate Averaged Chart. The Definitive Chart Reflecting The Fifties and Sixties.Comment
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Greetings Pop Pickers !
Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending January 26th 1963
The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending January 26th 1963 NME MM DISC RR Total Last This The Sound Survey Stores 100 150 50 30 Points Week Week The Top 30 Singles Chart BBC TOP 30 Scored 1 1 Bachelor Boy / The Next Time - Cliff Richard 1= 3 1 1 2 9670 2 2 Dance On - The Shadows 1= 2 2 2 1 9600 9 3 Diamonds - Jet Harris and Tony Meehan 3 1 3 3 4 9410 6 4 Globetrotter - The Tornados 4= 4 5 4 5 8730 4 5 Like I Do - Maureen Evans 4= 6 4 5 3 8690 3 6 Return To Sender - Elvis Presley 6 5 6 6 6 8350 13 7 Don't You Think It's Time - Mike Berry 7 8 8 8 8 7590 5 8 (Dance With The) Guitar Man - Duane Eddy 10 13 7 12 9 7010 11 9 Up On The Roof - Kenny Lynch 8= 11 10 7 10 6980 10 10 Go Away Little Girl - Mark Wynter 8= 12 9 10 7 6970 14 11 Comin' Home Baby - Mel Torme 11 9 13 11 13 6440 24 12 Little Town Flirt - Del Shannon 12 10 16 9 14 5960 7 13 Lovesick Blues / She Taught Me How To Yodel - Frank Ifield 13 19 11 14 11 5650 8 14 Sun Arise - Rolf Harris 15 16 12 16 15 5580 25 15 Island Of Dreams - The Springfields 14 17 15 13 12 5270 12 16 It Only Took A Minute - Joe Brown 19 25 14 20 21 4000 NEW 17 Some Kinda Fun - Chris Montez 16 20 21 15 16 3850 26 18 Big Girls Don't Cry - The Four Seasons 18 14 24 19 18 3740 NEW 19 All Alone Am I - Brenda Lee 17 15 25 17 17 3620 16 20 Bobby's Girl - Susan Maughan 20 24 18 23 19 3410 15 21 Telstar - The Tornados 21= 22 17 20 3330 18 22 He's A Rebel - The Crystals 21= 26 19 22 23 2990 NEW 23 The Wayward Wind - Frank Ifield 23 17 30 18 29 2260 22 24 Just For Kicks - Mike Sarne 26 20 25 1830 19 25 Desafinado - Stan Getz and Charlie Byrd 27 30 23 25 1600 NEW 26 Sukiyaki - Kenny Ball 24 29 26 24 22 1570 17 27 Let's Dance - Chris Montez 28 22 26 1500 NEW 28 A Taste Of Honey - Mr. Acker Bilk 25 23 21 1300 NEW 29 Loo-Be-Loo - The Chucks 21 1000 NEW 30 Charmaine - The Bachelors 27 26 650 The Next Time - Cliff Richard 7 21 The Swiss Maid - Del Shannon 27 600 20 Your Cheating Heart - Ray Charles 28 30 480 30 The Lonely Bull - Tijuana Brass 29 27 420 X Ruby Ann - Marty Robbins 29 27 24 410 B Loop-De-Loop - Frankie Vaughan 28 29 400 B My Little Girl - The Crickets 28 150 B It's Up To You - Rick Nelson 28 90 X I Saw Linda Yesterday - Doug Sheldon 30 50 23 A Forever Kind Of Love - Bobby Vee 27 The Main Attraction - Pat Boone 28 Up On The Roof - Julie Grant 29 Love Me Do - The Beatles * The BBC manuscript omits a #30 position. The Ultimate Averaged Chart. The Definitive Chart Reflecting The Fifties and Sixties.Comment
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A three way split across the music papers for #1 this week but the averaging process on The Ultimate chart favours Cliff alone while the BBC can't decide and give The Shadows a joint #1 position.The Ultimate Averaged Chart. The Definitive Chart Reflecting The Fifties and Sixties.Comment
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At a quick glance, I'm assuming number 30 on the BBC chart for 26/01/63 would have been 'Charmaine' by The Batchelors?Comment
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1 Bachelor Boy / The Next Time - Cliff Richard
Why did you reverse the order? Was it simply because of the NME chart - nos. 3 and 7 respectively? Or did the radio stations start to play Bachelor Boy more often?
Robbie - it is not Batchelors - that is the company that sells peas!Comment
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Ouch ! That was a bit harsh Brian. We all make typos from time to time. I've had to correct typos in the chart numerous times before I post.Originally posted by brian05 View Post
I reversed the order because of the way the titles are listed in the NME. Whichever title is the highest placed takes precedence and the lower listed at the bottom.The Ultimate Averaged Chart. The Definitive Chart Reflecting The Fifties and Sixties.Comment
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Harsh! No - it was a fun comment.
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Fair enough, thanks BrianOriginally posted by brian05 View PostHarsh! No - it was a fun comment.
The Ultimate Averaged Chart. The Definitive Chart Reflecting The Fifties and Sixties.Comment
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Indeed! I think I've made that spelling mistake with their name a few times.Originally posted by brian05 View PostHarsh! No - it was a fun comment.
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Greetings Pop Pickers !
Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending February 2nd 1963
The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending February 2nd 1963 NME MM DISC RR Total Last This The Sound Survey Stores 100 150 50 30 Points Week Week The Top 30 Singles Chart BBC TOP 30 Scored 3 1 Diamonds - Jet Harris and Tony Meehan 1 1 1 1 1 9900 1 2 Bachelor Boy / The Next Time - Cliff Richard 2 5 2 2 2 9270 2 3 Dance On - The Shadows 3= 3 3 5 4 9110 4 4 Globetrotter - The Tornados 3= 2 4 4 5 9080 5 5 Like I Do - Maureen Evans 5 5 5 6 3 8590 7 6 Don't You Think It's Time - Mike Berry 6 6 6 3 6 8400 12 7 Little Town Flirt - Del Shannon 7 7 7 7 7 7920 6 8 Return To Sender - Elvis Presley 8 9 8 12 8 7290 23 9 The Wayward Wind - Frank Ifield 9 8 13 8 9 6810 9 10 Up On The Roof - Kenny Lynch 10 12 9 15 12 6570 10 11 Go Away Little Girl - Mark Wynter 11 13 10 17 11 6250 11 12 Comin' Home Baby - Mel Torme 14 11 12 13 18 6140 19 13 All Alone Am I - Brenda Lee 12= 14 15 10 15 5630 15 14 Island Of Dreams - The Springfields 16= 20 11 18 14 5260 17 15 Some Kinda Fun - Chris Montez 12= 16 17 11 10 5230 18 16 Big Girls Don't Cry - The Four Seasons 15 14 18 14 13 5040 28 17 A Taste Of Honey - Mr. Acker Bilk 18 18 16 19 21 4450 NEW 18 Please Please Me - The Beatles 16= 17 21 9 16 4450 8 19 (Dance With The) Guitar Man - Duane Eddy 19 23 14 22 17 4220 26 20 Sukiyaki - Kenny Ball 20 24 20 25 19 3010 14 21 Sun Arise - Rolf Harris 24 28 19 27 25 2480 29 22 Loo-Be-Loo - The Chucks 21 20 30 20 22 2070 NEW 23 Loop-De-Loop - Frankie Vaughan 22 19 16 29 2010 13 24 Lovesick Blues / She Taught Me How To Yodel - Frank Ifield 25 27 23 20 1930 NEW 25 My Little Girl - The Crickets 23 22 21 23 1640 22 26 He's A Rebel - The Crystals 27 22 28 28 1590 16 27 It Only Took A Minute - Joe Brown 29= 30 24 29 1250 30 28 Charmaine - The Bachelors 26 25 24 26 1100 20 29 Bobby's Girl - Susan Maughan 29= 25 27 1020 NEW 30 Walk Right In - The Rooftop Singers 28 26 23 900 The Next Time - Cliff Richard 10 24 Just For Kicks - Mike Sarne 26 750 21 Telstar - The Tornados 27 30 630 X Ruby Ann - Marty Robbins 28 450 The Lonely Bull - The Tijuana Brass 29 300 B It's Up To You - Rick Nelson 30 24 260 X I Saw Linda Yesterday - Doug Sheldon 26 250 B Hava Nagila - The Spotnicks 29 200 25 Desafinado - Stan Getz and Charlie Byrd 27 Let's Dance - Chris Montez The Ultimate Averaged Chart. The Definitive Chart Reflecting The Fifties and Sixties.Comment
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.. and here they come, for Brian, me, and everybody else, The Beatles with the highest new entry of the week, #18, with Please Please Me
The Ultimate Averaged Chart. The Definitive Chart Reflecting The Fifties and Sixties.Comment
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Interesting that 'Please Please Me' is in at number 9 on the Disc chart, well ahead of the other charts.Comment
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Might be worth mentioning that 'Please Please Me' had entered the two Top 50 charts on 19-Jan, MM at 47 and RR at 45, on only 2 days of sales. The following week it had risen to 39 and 33 respectively.
Unlike 'Love Me Do' it was chosen by POTP for the New Release section, but for some reason appeared one week late on the 20-Jan programme when it was already in the larger charts.
I note that its nemesis 'The Wayward Wind' was not a stranger to the charts which had carried 3 other versions of the song in 1956.Comment
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Please Please Me and The Wayward Wind will do battle on The Ultimate Chart for top spot like you say, wait and see who wins
The Ultimate Averaged Chart. The Definitive Chart Reflecting The Fifties and Sixties.Comment
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