The Ultimate Averaged Chart - The BBC Chart Re-Imagined

[MrTibbs]

Apart from one record, which had also been behaving strangely in MM, I haven't seen any 'kinks' that needed working out.

The next really big kink in BMRB is yet to come, the Max Romeo record with an even more inexplicable pattern of movement than Donald Peers

[MrTibbs]

I've just noticed - this thread will be a year old on Wednesday (16 June)! It shows how good it is that it's still going strong at 114 pages.

I genuinely can't believe so many guys follow it Robbie. As you say just coming up on a year, 22 likes, over 71,000 views, over 2600 comments. I never thought when it started out that it would generate this much interest.

[Robbie]

I've just noticed - this thread will be a year old on Wednesday (16 June)! It shows how good it is that it's still going strong at 114 pages.

[Splodj]

Please Don't Go by Donald Peers - the one we discussed.

[MrTibbs]

Apart from one record, which had also been behaving strangely in MM, I haven't seen any 'kinks' that needed working out.

What record was that Splodj as a matter of interest ?

[Splodj]

Apart from one record, which had also been behaving strangely in MM, I haven't seen any 'kinks' that needed working out.

[RokinRobinOfLocksley]

I must say, all 3 charts are getting tighter and tighter, as BMRB works out its kinks. More proof that NME and MM were outstanding charts during the 60s, and the method of averaging "a lot" of dealer charts was relatively highly accurate and effective.

[RokinRobinOfLocksley]

The way I read the 20-Oct-58 Billboard is that they are no longer counting individual sales. "To prepare this data required costly and complex tabulations of over 10,000 unit sales of each singles disk each week ... elimination of the tabulation of individual songs and artists makes possible substantial cost reductions."

I think you are correct Splodj, I missed that article on page 3, but saw the other one. It thus sounds like Billboard used 3 methods of gathering different types of sales info thru 1959, and applying them to the Best Sellers chart and the Top 100 / Hot 100.

It looks like the Best Sellers chart first used/averaged "dealer opinion" Top 10 lists in 1940, then in 1957 with the help of NYU School of Retailing went to "dealer actual cash register sales" as recorded in diaries. Then the chart was killed off in Oct 1958, as you found because it was too expensive to fund and maintain.

And the Top 100 Record Sides chart, which began Nov-12-1955, originally combined dealer sales, jukebox play, and DJ airplay, from info gathered from surveys they sent out. Assuming they were using the same Best Sellers "dealer opinion" lists for the sales data component. However in June/July 1957, in a quick series of events over just 3 weeks, the jukebox position chart ended, the jukebox and DJ airplay data was tossed from the Top 100, and (as I just discovered) the sales component started using the new "dealer actual cash register sales", per the NYU SOR seal/certification on the chart.

So from July 1957 to July 1958, it was more than a little confusing to some. The Best Sellers chart was "actual sales of records", and the Top 100 Sides chart was "actual sales of sides". The Top 100 chart had a disclaimer box pointing this out, that the "sides" were “as requested by customers.” What a zoo, ha.

So then the Top 100 gets killed off end of July 1958, replaced by the Hot 100 start of Aug 1958. The Top 100 at this time had been sales only, the Hot 100 was now sales + DJ airplay + jukebox play. So the Hot 100 started out doing just what the Top 100 had begun doing just 3 years earlier! Here we go 'round in circles.

The question becomes, what type of sales data was the Hot 100 originally using in Aug 1958? Did they go back to "dealer opinion", or did they use "actual dealer sales"? I don't know, and can't find out, as the pertinent charts and articles are on pages missing from the World Radio History archive, ugh.

But as you found out Splodj, when the Best Sellers chart was killed off in Oct 1958, the Hot 100 then changed whatever it was doing with its sales component, going to something involving dealer diaries but not compiling actual dealer sales thru NYU SOR. Did the dealers begin constructing from their diaries ranked charts without sales? It kinda sounds like it.

Something else confusing. The note on the Oct-20-1958 Hot 100 chart (top of page 25) says "These 100 sides are listed in order of their national popularity, as determined by weekly local studies prepared for The Billboard in markets representing a cross-section of the United States. These studies reflect sales registered for each disk up to press time." So did the Hot 100 go to sales only, 2.5 months after it began? As we know, it eventually added back in radio play.

Fascinating, interesting…

[Robbie]

I thought BMRB was most out of step in April 1970 putting Dana at number one for 2 weeks. Although it was top in Ireland for 9 weeks, so maybe this was because BMRB surveyed more shops in NI.

As far as I am aware, BMRB never surveyed any shops in NI. Even Gallup didn't start to include returns from NI until 1984.

[MrTibbs]

In the vast majority of cases at least two out of three of the three charts always agree on the #1 record. It gets interesting when there is a three way split at the top. You will see this for the first time in December 1969 when there is a three way disagreement on what is #1. Thus far in my compilation it has also happened twice in 1970 and the fun averaging process decider is interesting in each case.

[Splodj]

I thought BMRB was most out of step in April 1970 putting Dana at number one for 2 weeks. Although it was top in Ireland for 9 weeks, so maybe this was because BMRB surveyed more shops in NI.

[MrTibbs]

Once again BMRB identifies the next number one first.

I see that Top Pops had some maverick number ones about this time - Herman's, Hawkins etc.
.

Yeah it's one of the reasons I don't include Top Pops in the 'averaging' process. They also have a number of records that go high in the top ten that don't go close to the top ten in any other chart. They only sampled around a dozen stores so that is the likely reason.

1970 is proving an interesting year. I'm already compiling in September of 1970 and there are a few instances where the #1 is split three ways and the 'averaging' process comes up with a few interesting #1's on this basis.

[Splodj]

Once again BMRB identifies the next number one first.

I see that Top Pops had some maverick number ones about this time - Herman's, Hawkins etc.

Meanwhile ... 'Space Oddity' was recorded on 20th June, although didn't chart until September.

[MrTibbs]

Greetings Pop Pickers !

Here is the Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending June 14th 1969

The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending June 14th 1969							NME	MM	BMRB	Total
Last	This		The Sound Survey			Stores	200	250	85	Points
Week	Week		The Top 30 Singles Chart					TOP	30	Scored
1	1	Dizzy - Tommy Roe					1	1	2	15965
12	2	The Ballad Of John And Yoko - The Beatles					2	2	1	15600
8	3	Oh Happy Day - The Edwin Hawkins Singers					3	3	3	14980
2	4	Get Back - The Beatles					4	4	5	14360
3	5	Man Of The World - Fleetwood Mac					5	5	4	13995
11	6	Time Is Tight - Booker T. and The MG's					7	6	6	13175
4	7	My Way - Frank Sinatra					6	7	7	13040
6	8	The Boxer - Simon and Garfunkel					8	8	8	12305
7	9	Ragamuffin Man - Manfred Mann					9	9	10	11685
10	10	Love Me Tonight - Tom Jones					11	10	12	10865
17	11	Higher And Higher - Jackie Wilson					10	12	11	10650
9	12	Behind A Painted Smile - The Isley Brothers					13	11	20	9535
16	13	Tracks Of My Tears - Smokey Robinson and The Miracles					14	14	9	9520
5	14	My Sentimental Friend - Herman's Hermits					12	13	18	9405
13	15	Galveston - Glen Campbell					16	15	17	8190
14	16	Aquarius/Let The Sunshine In - The Fifth Dimension					15	18	16	7725
21	17	I'd Rather Go Blind - Chicken Shack					17	16	19	7570
18	18	Dick-A-Dum-Dum - Des O'Connor					18	17	14	7545
26	19	Living In The Past - Jethro Tull					20	19	15	6560
29	20	Big Ship - Cliff Richard					21	20	13	6280
27	21	Gimme Gimme Good Lovin' - Crazy Elephant					19	21	21	5750
NEW	22	Proud Mary - Creedence Clearwater Revival					22	24	22	4315
15	23	Come Back And Shake Me - Clodagh Rodgers					25	22	22	4215
19	24	Goodbye - Mary Hopkin					24	23	26	3825
NEW	25	Frozen Orange Juice - Peter Sarstedt					26	29	24	2095
RE	26	I Threw It All Away - Bob Dylan					23			1600
23	27	Snake In The Grass - Dave Dee, Dozy, Beaky, Mick and Tich						25		1500
NEW	28	Happy Heart - Andy Williams					27		25	1310
20	29	(I'm A) Road Runner - Jumior Walker and The All Stars						26		1250
22	30	I'm Living In Shame - Diana Ross and The Supremes						28	28	1005
X		Boogaloo Party - The Flamingos						27		1000
B		Tomorrow Tomorrow - The Bee Gees					28			600
B		What Is A Man - The Four Tops					30		27	540
B		A Way Of Life - The Family Dogg					29			400
B		Wet Dream - Max Romeo						30		250
B		Breakaway - The Beach Boys							29	170
X		Groovy Baby - Microbe							30	85
24		Badge - Cream
25		Pinball Wizard - The Who
28		Gentle On My Mind - Dean Martin
30		Cupid - Johnny Nash

[brian05]

I have to say it ! The only Beatles single I never liked debuts this week. The Ballad Of John And Yoko is easily the worst single they ever released even although it's just John and Paul who recorded it. It's just an awful substandard single.

I like the final 15 seconds!

An offending word was blanked out on Top Of The Pops. Would not happen today.

[RokinRobinOfLocksley]

I agree, I don't like "The Ballad of J + Y" whatsoever.
From an artistic merit, it should have been left off the "1" CD in favor of another #1 track...

[Metalweb]

I guess everyone was expecting Let It Be to be The Beatles' final #1!

btw is The Ballad Of John & Yoko the first (non instrumental) #1 without the title in the lyrics?

[Robbie]

'The Ballad Of John And Yoko' is little more than a demo. It's certainly a hurried recording. I don't mind it but I'd rather 'Get Back' had been their final number 1, as it's more apt.

[MrTibbs]

I have to say it ! The only Beatles single I never liked debuts this week. The Ballad Of John And Yoko is easily the worst single they ever released even although it's just John and Paul who recorded it. It's just an awful substandard single.

[MrTibbs]

Greetings Pop Pickers !

Here is the Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending June 7th 1969

The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending June 7th 1969							NME	MM	BMRB	Total
Last	This		The Sound Survey			Stores	200	250	85	Points
Week	Week		The Top 30 Singles Chart					TOP	30	Scored
2	1	Dizzy - Tommy Roe					1	1	1	16050
1	2	Get Back - The Beatles					2	2	2	15515
3	3	Man Of The World - Fleetwood Mac					3	3	3	14980
5	4	My Way - Frank Sinatra					4	4	5	14360
4	5	My Sentimental Friend - Herman's Hermits					5	5	7	13740
7	6	The Boxer - Simon and Garfunkel					6	7	6	13125
8	7	Ragamuffin Man - Manfred Mann					7	6	10	12835
22	8	Oh Happy Day - The Edwin Hawkins Singers					7	9	9	12170
6	9	Behind A Painted Smile - The Isley Brothers					11	8	8	11705
9	10	Love Me Tonight - Tom Jones					9	9	11	11600
14	11	Time Is Tight - Booker T. and The MG's					9	11	11	11100
NEW	12	The Ballad Of John And Yoko - The Beatles					11	15	4	10295
12	13	Galveston - Glen Campbell					15	12	14	9395
15	14	Aquarius/Let The Sunshine In - The Fifth Dimension					13	13	16	9375
10	15	Come Back And Shake Me - Clodagh Rodgers					16	14	19	8270
16	16	Tracks Of My Tears - Smokey Robinson and The Miracles					17	18	13	7580
25	17	Higher And Higher - Jackie Wilson					14	20	15	7510
21	18	Dick-A-Dum-Dum - Des O'Connor					18	17	18	7205
11	19	Goodbye - Mary Hopkin					20	16	20	6885
13	20	(I'm A) Road Runner - Junior Walker and The All Stars					19	19	28	5655
28	21	I'd Rather Go Blind - Chicken Shack					22	21	17	5490
18	22	I'm Living In Shame - Diana Ross and The Supremes					21	27	21	3850
27	23	Snake In The Grass - Dave Dee, Dozy, Beaky, Mick and Tich					30	22	24	3045
19	24	Badge - Cream					26	24		2750
17	25	Pinball Wizard - The Who					29	23		2400
NEW	26	Living In The Past - Jethro Tull					26	29	22	2265
NEW	27	Gimme Gimme Good Lovin' - Crazy Elephant					23	30	27	2190
26	28	Gentle On My Mind - Dean Martin						26	22	2015
NEW	29	Big Ship - Cliff Richard					28	28	25	1860
24	30	Cupid - Johnny Nash						25		1500
B		Proud Mary - Creedence Clearwater Revival					24			1400
29		I Threw It All Away - Bob Dylan					25		30	1285
X		Boogaloo Party - The Flamingos							26	425
X		Groovy Baby - Microbe							29	170
20		Harlem Shuffle - Bob and Earl
23		Israelites - Desmond Dekker and The Aces
30		Passing Strangers - Sarah Vaughan and Billy Eckstine

[Robbie]

^
the basing of many US station playlists (in the 60s especially) on local sales charts actually reinforced the connection back to sales. If a station based its airplay on what was selling in the local area then its airplay should refelct the local popularity of a record. The model started to breakdown in the 1970s when many independent stations became part of a larger chain and airplay was increasingly decided from regional or even national offices.

[Splodj]

The way I read the 20-Sep-58 Billboard is that they are no longer counting individual sales. "To prepare this data required costly and complex tabulations of over 10,000 unit sales of each singles disk each week ... elimination of the tabulation of individual songs and artists makes possible substantial cost reductions."

Regarding 'airplay', although this conjures up images of charts based on dj's whiims actually Top 40 stations often did their own extensive sales surveys.
WABC's process in New York appears to put RR to shame: https://www.musicradio77.com/surveyexplanation.html
Rival WMCA also did a survey: https://www.musicradio77.com/wmca/surveys.html

[RokinRobinOfLocksley]

It is still unclear to me whether Billboard asked the stores to simply rank their sales or specify the actual numbers sold. If it was the latter they would be in the strange situation of saying, in many cases, that one side of the record sold 'x' and the other side sold 'y'. Also they computed their year-end chart using cumulative points; if they had cumulative sales available for the sales section you would have expected those to be used.

Billboard was constantly changing what they were doing, you basically have to go thru many issues and look at all the different charts and info boxes (and articles) to see what the heck they were doing at any given point in time.

For June-17-1957:
--the Best Sellers chart was "records" = combined A + B sides, based on "dealer opinions"
--the Juke Box chart was "records" = combined A + B sides
--the DJ airplay chart was for "sides" = separate A / B chart positions
--the Top 100 combo of the above 3 charts was "sides" = separate A / B positions

For the next week June 24-1957, some changes were made due to now counting actual dealer sales:
--the Best Sellers chart is still "records" = combined A + B sides, but now based on "actual cash register sales, not opinion"
--the Juke Box chart is still "records" = combined A + B sides, but they have removed all chart position numbers, records are now just randomly listed
--the DJ airplay chart is still "sides" = separate A / B positions
--the Top 100 combo chart is still "sides", but they have removed juke box plays from the calcs, so it's now only based on dealer sales + DJ airplay
--the question for me here is, is the Top 100 using actual sales or dealer opinion sales? It's not perfectly clear. But as I posted further up above, the Hot 100 on Oct-20-1958 boldly proclaimed going forward they were going to use actual sales data, implying they hadn't been doing so before.

It's a zoo. Joel Whitburn gives us a lot of info about the charts in his books, but he doesn't tell us everything either.

[kjell]

Yeah Robin, got to hand it to you: You’ve just clarified my memory. Seems I’ve been too occupied with British charts the last year to keep up my American side of the brain.

[MrTibbs]

mmmmmmmm .. a real treat for my ears as a new entry this week, the wonderful I'd Rather Go Blind by Chicken Shack.

All three charts are really quite close in the top eleven this week with at most any one of them just one position away from the others.