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The Ultimate Averaged Chart - The BBC Chart Re-Imagined

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  • Originally posted by Splodj View Post
    Might be worth mentioning that 'Please Please Me' had entered the two Top 50 charts on 19-Jan, MM at 47 and RR at 45, on only 2 days of sales. The following week it had risen to 39 and 33 respectively.
    Did not realise that. So this week is the 3rd week of release. Only 2 days of sales - must have had a good publicity campaign. Weren't they on a BBC radio program at this time? Maybe an appearance on Thank Your Lucky Stars?

    Comment


    • Yes, I was correct. From Record Mirror on 12th January 1963,

      "THE BEATLES appeared on Scottish T.V.'s 'Roundup' last week during their five-day tour north of the border. Other T.V. and sound dates following the release of their new disc 'Please Please Me' (written by Beatlemen John Lennon and Paul McCartney) include 'Thank Your Lucky Stars', Jan. 19th; `Here We Go', Jan. 25th; and 'Saturday Club', Jan. 26th."

      Comment


      • The race is on .. Frank Ifield climbs to 4 but The Fab Four take a 12 place leap from 18 to 6.

        Bobby Vee debuts with his last big hit. He has been an upper chart regular since 1961. He will have one more minor hit in 1963 then .. vanish .. one of many until now chart regulars swept aside by the wave of Beatlemania and British band chart domination to come.

        The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending February 9th 1963 NME MM DISC RR Total
        Last This The Sound Survey Stores 100 150 50 30 Points
        Week Week The Top 30 Singles Chart BBC TOP 30 Scored
        1 1 Diamonds - Jet Harris and Tony Meehan 1 1 1 1 1 9900
        2 2 Bachelor Boy / The Next Time - Cliff Richard 2 6 2 2 2 9170
        4 3 Globetrotter - The Tornados 4 3 3 5 6 9050
        9 4 The Wayward Wind - Frank Ifield 3 2 5 3 4 9010
        7 5 Little Town Flirt - Del Shannon 5 4 4 4 7 8820
        18 6 Please Please Me - The Beatles 6 5 9 7 3 7940
        6 7 Don't You Think It's Time - Mike Berry 7 8 7 6 8 7840
        5 8 Like I Do - Maureen Evans 8 10 6 10 5 7680
        3 9 Dance On - The Shadows 9 9 8 9 9 7410
        13 10 All Alone Am I - Brenda Lee 10 11 10 11 11 6750
        14 11 Island Of Dreams - The Springfields 11= 14 11 12 10 6280
        23 12 Loop-De-Loop - Frankie Vaughan 11= 7 17 8 15 6130
        20 13 Sukiyaki - Kenny Ball 14 15 12 16 14 5710
        16 14 Big Girls Don't Cry - The Four Seasons 13 15 14 13 13 5590
        17 15 A Taste Of Honey - Mr. Acker Bilk 16 19 13 17 16 5050
        15 16 Some Kinda Fun - Chris Montez 15 20 15 14 12 4920
        8 17 Return To Sender - Elvis Presley 17 18 16 19 17 4570
        30 18 Walk Right In - The Rooftop Singers 18 13 22 15 21 4250
        10 19 Up On The Roof - Kenny Lynch 20 22 18 21 18 3740
        22 20 Loo-Be-Loo - The Chucks 21 21 21 23 23 3140
        12 21 Comin' Home Baby - Mel Torme 22 23 20 22 24 3110
        11 22 Go Away Little Girl - Mark Wynter 23 24 19 28 20 2980
        25 23 My Little Girl - The Crickets 19 25 24 20 19 2560
        NEW 24 The Night Has A Thousand Eyes - Bobby Vee 25 17 18 30 2080
        NEW 25 Hava Nagila - The Spotnicks 24 26 26 24 26 1750
        NEW 26 It's Up To You - Rick Nelson 26 30 25 26 22 1520
        19 27 (Dance With The) Guitar Man - Duane Eddy 27 23 25 1380
        28 28 Charmaine - The Bachelors 28 28 30 27 27 770
        26 29 He's A Rebel - The Crystals 27 600
        NEW 30 The Alley Cat Song - David Thorne 29= 28 29 510
        The Next Time - Cliff Richard 12
        B Tell Him - Billie Davis 29= 27 30 450
        24 Lovesick Blues / She Taught Me How To Yodel - Frank Ifield 29= 29 28 390
        X What Now - Adam Faith 29 29 300
        X I Saw Linda Yesterday - Doug Sheldon 25 300
        21 Sun Arise - Rolf Harris
        27 It Only Took A Minute - Joe Brown
        29 Bobby's Girl - Susan Maughan
        The Record Mirror Chart Re-Calculated, Re-Worked, Extended

        The Way It Was Meant To Be

        Comment


        • Originally posted by MrTibbs View Post
          For Lonnie and any other guys who want to make corrections on their files to typo errors I have picked up on the BBC manuscript here is a list of these from January 1960 up to June 1963 where I am just now.

          January 28th 1961 Poetry In Motion should be 2 not 1.
          March 25th 1961 Exodus should be 7 not 8.
          August 31st 1962 Sealed With A Kiss should be 6 not 8.
          November 9th 1962 Sheila should be 10 not 7.
          January 26th 1963. Confirming the manuscript omits a #30.
          March 15th 1963 Like I've Never Been Gone should be 3 not 5.
          April 19th 1963 Say Wonderful Things should be 8 not 6

          Throughout May 1963 the manuscript also lists Rhythm Of The rain by The Crystals when it should be The Cascades.

          Also picked up 2 errors on Disc

          July 29th 1961 Ricky Nelson omitted from #6 and later corrected so all other records below this need pushed down a place.

          January 12th 1963. #29 lists Island Of Dreams by The Tijuana Brass. The title should be The Lonely Bull. The DISC chart list here on UK Mix also lists this error.

          Hope this info helps in correcting your files.

          Brian
          A long time ago, I know, but finally updated these in my database. Do let me - and others - know if you spot any other errors for the manuscript because I think my database comes form the same original source.
          http://thechartbook.co.uk - for the latest are best chart book - By Decade!
          Now including NME, Record Mirror and Melody Maker from the UK and some Billboard charts

          Comment


          • On 2-Feb the Beatles set out on their theatre tour with Helen Shapiro. While we regard this period as a time of renaissance, Lennon looked back on it differently ...

            "We sold out. The music was dead before we even went on the theatre tour of Britain ... The Beatles music died then. We killed ourselves to make it - and that was the end of it."

            (Lennon Remembers, Wenner)

            Comment


            • Originally posted by kingofskiffle View Post

              A long time ago, I know, but finally updated these in my database. Do let me - and others - know if you spot any other errors for the manuscript because I think my database comes form the same original source.
              I will do Lonnie
              The Record Mirror Chart Re-Calculated, Re-Worked, Extended

              The Way It Was Meant To Be

              Comment


              • The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending February 9th 1963

                It's Up To You - Rick Nelson should be #22 in RR Chart.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Woz1234 View Post
                  The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending February 9th 1963

                  It's Up To You - Rick Nelson should be #22 in RR Chart.
                  Oops

                  That slipped through the chart check before posting as well. Well spotted and thanks for picking up on that rare error Woz.

                  Please see the amended chart above
                  The Record Mirror Chart Re-Calculated, Re-Worked, Extended

                  The Way It Was Meant To Be

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by kingofskiffle View Post

                    A long time ago, I know, but finally updated these in my database. Do let me - and others - know if you spot any other errors for the manuscript because I think my database comes form the same original source.
                    Lonnie, do you have the most recent BBC Dave/Trevor file? The most recent one (of the 4 Dave/Trevor revised files that I have) is the one Trevor sent me 18 June 2015.

                    Comment


                    • kingofskiffle
                      kingofskiffle commented
                      Editing a comment
                      Not actually sure... I think I entered them around 2010 or so but I seem to have a file with a save date of 27 Jul 2016 (although that could be when I saved it.... Dropbox has a habit of amending save dates). The file does have all those errors listed in it though

                  • I know its early days yet but I'm defo impressed with the initial averaging process result for the 'fun' chart as opposed to the BMRB chart in 1969.

                    Averaging is really smoothing things out. It's only when you work with the BMRB chart you realise just how many records have huge chart fluctuations up down up down week on week and the number of tied positions it had. Combining it with MM and NME fixes this well without hugely disadvantaging BMRB and the end result is a smooth flowing chart. I'm liking what I'm seeing a lot.
                    The Record Mirror Chart Re-Calculated, Re-Worked, Extended

                    The Way It Was Meant To Be

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by RokinRobinOfLocksley View Post

                      Lonnie, do you have the most recent BBC Dave/Trevor file? The most recent one (of the 4 Dave/Trevor revised files that I have) is the one Trevor sent me 18 June 2015.
                      It is a shame because although the 4th version of the BBC chart manuscript does indeed have some much needed corrections made to it, it still carries quite a number of errors not corrected retrospectively. Like most of you I've had to correct these too on my copy as we discover more of them.
                      The Record Mirror Chart Re-Calculated, Re-Worked, Extended

                      The Way It Was Meant To Be

                      Comment


                      • I probably need to go through yours and mine side by side and see what the changes are
                        http://thechartbook.co.uk - for the latest are best chart book - By Decade!
                        Now including NME, Record Mirror and Melody Maker from the UK and some Billboard charts

                        Comment


                        • Greetings Pop Pickers !

                          Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending February 16th 1963

                          The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending February 16th 1963 NME MM DISC RR Total
                          Last This The Sound Survey Stores 100 150 50 30 Points
                          Week Week The Top 30 Singles Chart BBC TOP 30 Scored
                          1 1 Diamonds - Jet Harris and Tony Meehan 1 1 1 2 1 9850
                          4 2 The Wayward Wind - Frank Ifield 2 2 3 1 2 9470
                          6 3 Please Please Me - The Beatles 3 3 2 3 3 9390
                          5 4 Little Town Flirt - Del Shannon 4 4 4 4 4 8910
                          2 5 Bachelor Boy / The Next Time - Cliff Richard 5 9 5 5 5 8180
                          3 6 Globetrotter - The Tornados 8 8 6 9 13 7690
                          12 7 Loop-De-Loop - Frankie Vaughan 6 5 11 6 6 7600
                          8 8 Like I Do - Maureen Evans 7 10 7 10 7 7470
                          7 9 Don't You Think It's Time - Mike Berry 9 12 8 8 8 7190
                          11 10 Island Of Dreams - The Springfields 10 7 10 11 12 7120
                          10 11 All Alone Am I - Brenda Lee 11 11 9 12 9 6910
                          24 12 The Night Has A Thousand Eyes - Bobby Vee 12 6 15 7 14 6610
                          13 13 Sukiyaki - Kenny Ball 13 13 13 13 10 6030
                          9 14 Dance On - The Shadows 14 18 12 14 11 5600
                          18 15 Walk Right In - The Rooftop Singers 15 14 16 15 18 5140
                          15 16 A Taste Of Honey - Mr. Acker Bilk 16= 19 14 17 16 4900
                          14 17 Big Girls Don't Cry - The Four Seasons 16= 16 17 18 15 4730
                          16 18 Some Kinda Fun - Chris Montez 19 20 18 22 20 3830
                          25 19 Have Nagila - The Spotnicks 18 22 19 16 19 3810
                          23 20 My Little Girl - The Crickets 20 29 20 21 17 2770
                          NEW 21 Tell Him - Billie Davis 21= 21 24 20 27 2720
                          20 22 Loo-Be-Loo - The Chucks 24= 23 23 26 25 2430
                          NEW 23 That's What Love Will Do - Joe Brown 21= 17 30 19 26 2300
                          17 24 Return To Sender - Elvis Presley 24= 27 22 25 23 2290
                          19 25 Up On The Roof - Kenny Lynch 23 21 24 28 1940
                          27 26 It's Up To You - Rick Nelson 26= 25 26 28 24 1710
                          28 27 Charmaine - The Bachelors 26= 24 28 29 22 1520
                          21 28 Comin' Home Baby - Mel Torme 30 25 30 930
                          30 29 The Alley Cat Song - David Thorne 28 27 21 900
                          NEW 30 Like I've Never Been Gone - Billy Fury 29 28 23 700
                          The Next Time - Cliff Richard 15
                          B Hey Paula - Paul and Paula 26 500
                          22 Go Away Little Girl - Mark Wynter 29 29 360
                          B Boss Guitar - Duane Eddy 27 200
                          X What Now - Adam Faith 30 100
                          X Fireball XL5 - Don Spencer 30 50
                          26 (Dance With The) Guitar Man - Duane Eddy
                          29 He's A Rebel - The Crystals
                          The Record Mirror Chart Re-Calculated, Re-Worked, Extended

                          The Way It Was Meant To Be

                          Comment


                          • Diamonds is under pressure .. both Frank and The Beatles close in but who is The Ultimate Chart gonna favour ?

                            The theme from one of my very first favourite TV shows is just outside the top thirty this week. The wonderful theme to Fireball XL5, ''I wish I was a spaceman, the fastest guy alive, I'd fly you round the universe in Fireball XL5'', Magical Stuff for a 9 year old. !!
                            The Record Mirror Chart Re-Calculated, Re-Worked, Extended

                            The Way It Was Meant To Be

                            Comment


                            • Yes, a lovely song! Shame it never went that high (32 on RR in an 11 week run then back again in June). Very pleased though that it was re-issued at the end of last year on vinyl and got to 9 on the Vinyl chart (2 Jan 2021) and 14 in Scotland and 10 in Wales (those regional charts are now Physical and not iTunes downloads) and is 83 this week in Scotland. A lovely tune and a lovely series.
                              http://thechartbook.co.uk - for the latest are best chart book - By Decade!
                              Now including NME, Record Mirror and Melody Maker from the UK and some Billboard charts

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by kingofskiffle View Post
                                Yes, a lovely song! Shame it never went that high (32 on RR in an 11 week run then back again in June). Very pleased though that it was re-issued at the end of last year on vinyl and got to 9 on the Vinyl chart (2 Jan 2021) and 14 in Scotland and 10 in Wales (those regional charts are now Physical and not iTunes downloads) and is 83 this week in Scotland. A lovely tune and a lovely series.
                                Captain Steve Zodiac and his female co-pilot Venus if I remember correctly. It's one of those iconic theme tunes that have stayed with me down through the years. Conjures up magical memories of a more innocent time.
                                The Record Mirror Chart Re-Calculated, Re-Worked, Extended

                                The Way It Was Meant To Be

                                Comment


                                • A thought just crossed my mind: the charts being posted at present are from one of the coldest and snowiest winters of the 20th Century. From Christmas 1962 to early March 1963 the UK was quite literally snowed under in the coldest winter since 1740 (though 1947 was snowier). I wonder how high sales were in this period given how severe the weather was for 2 months?

                                  Comment


                                  • Originally posted by MrTibbs View Post
                                    The wonderful theme to Fireball XL5
                                    I bought the EP version which was released in April when the single was still rising in the charts.

                                    The other theme tune I rushed out to buy was Doctor Who.

                                    Comment


                                    • Greetings Pop Pickers !

                                      Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending February 23rd 1963

                                      The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending February 23rd 1963 NME MM DISC RR Total
                                      Last This The Sound Survey Stores 100 150 50 30 Points
                                      Week Week The Top 30 Singles Chart BBC TOP 30 Scored
                                      3 1 Please Please Me - The Beatles 1 1 2 1 2 9720
                                      2 2 The Wayward Wind - Frank Ifield 2 1 3 2 1 9550
                                      1 3 Diamonds - Jet Harris and Tony Meehan 3 3 1 3 3 9540
                                      12 4 The Night Has A Thousand Eyes - Bobby Vee 4 4 6 4 4 8610
                                      4 5 Little Town Flirt - Del Shannon 6 6 4 6 5 8580
                                      7 6 Loop-De-Loop - Frankie Vaughan 5 5 5 5 6 8550
                                      10 7 Island Of Dreams - The Springfields 7 8 8 8 8 7590
                                      11 8 All Alone Am I - Brenda Lee 8 12 7 9 7 7320
                                      5 9 Bachelor Boy / The Next Time - Cliff Richard* 12 16 10 10 9 7000
                                      13 10 Sukiyaki - Kenny Ball 9 10 9 12 10 6980
                                      15 11 Walk Right In - The Rooftop Singers 11 11 11 11 11 6600
                                      23 12 That's What Love Will Do - Joe Brown 10 7 15 7 12 6570
                                      8 13 Like I Do - Maureen Evans 13 14 13 15 14 5710
                                      6 14 Globetrotter - The Tornados 14 15 12 17 16 5600
                                      19 15 Hava Nagila - The Spotnicks 15 20 14 16 15 4880
                                      9 16 Don't You Think It's Time - Mike Berry 16 17 16 19 13 4790
                                      NEW 17 Summer Holiday / Dancing Shoes - Cliff Richard 18 9 24 13 27 4270
                                      30 18 Like I've Never Been Gone - Billy Fury 17 13 23 14 22 4120
                                      16 19 A Taste Of Honey - Mr. Acker Bilk 19 22 17 24 17 3770
                                      21 20 Tell Him - Billie Davis 20 21 19 18 24 3660
                                      14 21 Dance On - The Shadows 22 28 18 20 21 3100
                                      17 22 Big Girls Don't Cry - The Four Seasons 21 26 20 22 18 2990
                                      NEW 23 Hey Paula - Paul and Paula 23 19 25 21 26 2750
                                      18 24 Some Kinda Fun - Chris Montez 25 27 22 27 20 2280
                                      20 25 My Little Girl - The Crickets 24 21 23 19 2260
                                      27 26 Charmaine - The Bachelors 26 23 26 30 23 1840
                                      NEW 27 Hi-Lili Hi-Lo - Richard Chamberlain 27 24 25 1000
                                      22 28 Loo-Be-Loo - The Chucks 29= 29 27 29 860
                                      26 29 It's Up To You - Rick Nelson 28 29 29 25 580
                                      29 30 The Alley Cat Song - David Thorne 28 28 540
                                      * This week the split sides would have affected NME's averaged chart positionso an average was taken from the other 3 charts giving an average of 9.6 to Cliff Richard and awarded to NME to give a more representative chart position for both sides together.
                                      The Next Time - Cliff Richard 18
                                      Dancing Shoes - Cliff Richard 25
                                      B Boss Guitar - Duane Eddy 29= 30 30 26 30 530
                                      X Fireball XL5 - Don Spencer 28 150
                                      24 Return To Sender - Elvis Presley
                                      25 Up On The Roof - Kenny Lynch
                                      28 Comin' Home Baby - Mel Torme
                                      The Record Mirror Chart Re-Calculated, Re-Worked, Extended

                                      The Way It Was Meant To Be

                                      Comment


                                      • and there is your answer .. the battle is easily won, The Beatles easily overtake Frank to capture #1 and music history begins.

                                        Cliff has 4 songs on the NME Top 30 due to split sides.
                                        The Record Mirror Chart Re-Calculated, Re-Worked, Extended

                                        The Way It Was Meant To Be

                                        Comment


                                        • Originally posted by Robbie View Post
                                          A thought just crossed my mind: the charts being posted at present are from one of the coldest and snowiest winters of the 20th Century. From Christmas 1962 to early March 1963 the UK was quite literally snowed under in the coldest winter since 1740 (though 1947 was snowier). I wonder how high sales were in this period given how severe the weather was for 2 months?
                                          Two of Cliff’s biggest selling records of the sixties came during the first three months of a snowy, freezing 1963. It seems that some people at least were facing the elements and trudging to the record shops.

                                          Comment


                                          • It has been said that the particularly bad weather on the night Please Please Me was featured on Thank Your Lucky Stars gave it a boost because of the increased audience.

                                            When it made number one EMI hosted a party to celebrate. It occurs to me that latterly EMI could have made a stand against 'official' chart revisionism by including it on the '1' album.

                                            Comment


                                            • Interesting the smallest sample (RR) and the biggest sample (MM) had Please Please Me at no 2

                                              Comment


                                              • It makes no sense that a record company would credit an artist with FEWER #1 records than what they actually achieved. EMI staff in 2000 probably had few if any employees that were still working there from 1963. So they just pulled out the Guinness book with its revisionism, and a Billboard book for the US, and went with that. They probably ran the track list by Paul, George, Ringo, and John's widow for approval, who may not have even looked at it, or didn't voice any objections. Or if there were objections, EMI would have responded they were going by the 'official' charts, or could only get so many tracks on the CD, they had to leave off some. Case closed.

                                                Never mind that The Beatles had 5 other #1 records on the other major charts in the UK and US that weren't on the '1' CD: Please Please Me, Strawberry Fields Forever, Twist and Shout, Nowhere Man, and b-side For You Blue. EMI could have done the math and left off the least performing #1's. Or made separate '1' CDs for the UK and US. Or made it a 2-CD set and included everything. But why go thru all that trouble when you could just go with the worst UK chart, and the only US chart with a readily accessible chart book series? They were going to produce this '1' CD on a single CD, and the track list (plus or minus a song or two) wouldn't have made any difference in net sales.

                                                So instead of getting "all" the #1's, or the "biggest" #1's, we get "some" of the #1's. Or 27 out of 32 = "84% of the #1's which may not necessarily be the biggest". That would be a great CD title, ha...

                                                But yeah, Paul and Ringo should take a public stand against the 'official' charts. Wouldn't that be kool? And Mick and Keith as well. Check out my 1-star rant review of the '1' CD on Amazon when you get a free minute...

                                                Comment


                                                • I've long been amazed and perplexed at how little opposition materialised to RR being adopted as the 'official' chart even initially in 1977 by Guinness.. Artists, record companies, music papers, all just seemed to roll over and accept it without question. Given there was no opposition to speak of no wonder the OCC rubber stamped it and adopted it too. Even now I can't understand how easy the whole process was.
                                                  The Record Mirror Chart Re-Calculated, Re-Worked, Extended

                                                  The Way It Was Meant To Be

                                                  Comment

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