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The Ultimate Averaged Chart - The BBC Chart Re-Imagined

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  • MrTibbs
    replied
    Yeah thats true. It was just a case of forgetting to change that back to 19 from 15 once I had calculated the average so it doesn't alter the outcome of the chart, but I like complete accuracy so thanks for picking up on that Woz

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  • Woz1234
    replied
    Originally posted by MrTibbs View Post
    Greetings Pop Pickers ! I'm just in from work. Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending 27th November 1965.

    The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending November 27th 1965 NME MM DISC RR Total
    Last This The Sound Survey Stores 200 250 100 85 Points
    Week Week The Top 30 Singles Chart BBC TOP 30 Scored
    12 14 Still I'm Sad / Evil Hearted You - The Yardbirds* 15 15 14 17 14 10295
    Still I'm Sad should be #19 in the NME Chart

    Leave a comment:


  • MrTibbs
    replied
    Greetings Pop Pickers ! I'm just in from work. Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending 27th November 1965.
    The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending November 27th 1965 NME MM DISC RR Total
    Last This The Sound Survey Stores 200 250 100 85 Points
    Week Week The Top 30 Singles Chart BBC TOP 30 Scored
    2 1 The Carnival Is Over - The Seekers 1 2 1 1 1 18850
    3 2 1 2 3 - Len Barry 2 1 2 2 4 18445
    5 3 My Generation - The Who 3 3 3 3 2 17865
    1 4 Get Off Of My Cloud - The Rolling Stones 4 4 4 4 3 17230
    4 5 Yesterday Man - Chris Andrews 5 5 5 5 6 16425
    7 6 Tears - Ken Dodd 6 6 7 7 5 15610
    13 7 Wind Me Up - Cliff Richard 7 8 6 8 8 15105
    6 8 It's My Life - The Animals 8 9 8 9 7 14390
    11 9 A Lover's Concerto - The Toys 9 7 10 6 11 14250
    9 10 Positively 4th Street - Bob Dylan 10 12 9 10 10 13185
    8 11 Here It Comes Again - The Fortunes 11 11 11 11 9 12870
    17 12 Princess In Rags - Gene Pitney 12 10 13 12 12 12215
    10 13 Yesterday - Matt Monro 13 13 12 13 13 11680
    12 14 Still I'm Sad / Evil Hearted You - The Yardbirds* 15 19 14 17 14 10295
    23 15 The River - Ken Dodd 14 14 15 14 19 10120
    18 16 Tell Me Why - Elvis Presley 16 17 16 15 18 9255
    16 17 Almost There - Andy Williams 17 20 19 19 16 7675
    21 18 Don't Bring Me Your Heartaches - Paul and Barry Ryan 18 18 22 16 20 7285
    14 19 It's Good News Week - Hedgehoppers Anonymous 19 27 17 18 17 6790
    19 20 Is It Really Over - Jim Reeves 20 26 18 21 21 6100
    20 21 You're The One - Petula Clark 21 24 20 20 23 5930
    NEW 22 Maria - P J Proby 23 15 23 25 5800
    15 23 Love Is Strange - The Everly Brothers 22 21 22 15 4760
    29 24 Let's Hang On - The Four Seasons 24 16 26 26 4750
    NEW 25 How Can You Tell - Sandie Shaw 26 22 28 24 3250
    RE 26 Until It's Time For You To Go - The Four Pennies 25 28 29 23 22 2665
    24 27 But You're Mine - Sonny and Cher 29 24 24 2345
    26 28 Crawling Back - Roy Orbison 28 25 27 26 2325
    NEW 29 Rescue Me - Fontella Bass 27 23 29 1800
    30 30 Our Love Is Slipping Away - The Ivy League 30 25 1200
    * Again this week the split sides would have affected
    the averaged chart position so an average was taken
    from the other 3 charts and awarded to NME to give
    a more representative average.
    Evil Hearted You - The Yardbirds* 21
    In The Chapel In The Moonlight - The Bachelors 27 30 1085
    To Whom It Concerns - Chris Andrews 28 600
    Baby I'm Yours - Peter and Gordon 30 25 510
    Turn Turn Turn - The Byrds 30 30 350
    Eve Of Destruction - Barry McGuire 27 340
    The War Lord - The Shadows 28 300
    Something - Georgie Fame and The Blue Flames 28 255
    I Left My Heart In San Francisco - Tony Bennett 30 200
    Hang On Sloopy - The McCoys 29 170
    Last edited by MrTibbs; Wed August 19, 2020, 08:08.

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  • MrTibbs
    replied
    Greetings Pop Pickers ! Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending 20th November 1965.

    The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending November 20th 1965 NME MM DISC RR Total
    Last This The Sound Survey Stores 200 250 100 85 Points
    Week Week The Top 30 Singles Chart BBC TOP 30 Scored
    1 1 Get Off Of My Cloud - The Rolling Stones 1 1 2 1 1 18800
    6 2 The Carnival Is Over - The Seekers 2 3 1 2 2 18465
    9 3 1 2 3 - Len Barry 3 2 5 3 6 17225
    2 4 Yesterday Man - Chris Andrews 4 5 3 5 3 17180
    10 5 My Generation - The Who 5 4 4 4 5 17060
    4 6 It's My Life - The Animals 6 6 6 6 7 15790
    3 7 Tears - Ken Dodd 7 8 7 7 4 15295
    5 8 Here It Comes Again - The Fortunes 8 7 9 8 8 14555
    12 9 Positively 4th Street - Bob Dylan 9 12 8 9 10 13535
    8 10 Yesterday - Matt Monro 10 10 10 11 11 13150
    15 11 A Lover's Concerto - The Toys 11 9 12 10 15 12610
    11 12 Still I'm Sad / Evil Hearted You - The Yardbirds 12 13 13 12 9 11870
    19 13 Wind Me Up - Cliff Richard 13 11 14 13 16 11325
    7 14 It's Good News Week - Hedgehoppers Anonymous 14 17 11 14 12 11115
    14 15 Love Is Strange - The Everly Brothers 15 19 15 16 14 9345
    13 16 Almost There - Andy Williams 16 18 16 18 13 9180
    22 17 Princess In Rags - Gene Pitney 17 15 18 15 18 9155
    20 18 Tell Me Why - Elvis Presley 18 14 17 17 22 9065
    26 19 Is It Really Over - Jim Reeves 20 20 22 21 28 5705
    NEW 20 You're The One - Petula Clark 21 22 20 25 25 5660
    NEW 21 Don't Bring Me Your Heartaches - Paul and Barry Ryan 19 21 24 19 26 5375
    16 22 Eve Of Destruction - Barry McGuire 21 21 24 17 4390
    NEW 23 The River - Ken Dodd 23 22 26 20 4150
    23 24 But You're Mine - Sonny and Cher 24 19 20 3935
    24 25 In The Chapel In The Moonlight - The Bachelors 25 26 28 22 27 2990
    NEW 26 Crawling Back - Roy Orbison 26 27 27 23 2600
    30 27 Treat Her Right - Roy Head 27 23 26 30 2585
    18 28 Hang On Sloopy - The McCoys 28= 25 24 2095
    NEW 29 Let's Hang On - The Four Seasons 25 28 1500
    NEW 30 Our Love Is Slipping Away - The Ivy League 24 1400
    Evil Hearted You - The Yardbirds 16
    Baby I'm Yours - Peter and Gordon 28= 29 30 21 1350
    Something - Georgie Fame 30= 27 23 1080
    Until It's Time For You To Go - The Four Pennies 30= 19 1020
    Who You Gonna Hurt - Beryl Marsden 30 30 29 650
    I'm Gonna Take You There - Dave Berry 28 600
    Turquoise - Donovan 29 500
    If You Gotta Go, Go Now - Manfred Mann 29 170

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  • MrTibbs
    replied
    Greetings Pop Pickers ! Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending 13th November 1965.
    This week the split sides make no difference to The Yardbirds' average chart position.

    The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending November 13th 1965 NME MM DISC RR Total
    Last This The Sound Survey Stores 200 250 100 85 Points
    Week Week The Top 30 Singles Chart BBC TOP 30 Scored
    1 1 Get Off Of My Cloud - The Rolling Stones 1 1 1 1 1 19050
    3 2 Yesterday Man - Chris Andrews 2 2 2 2 3 18330
    2 3 Tears - Ken Dodd 3 8 3 3 2 16865
    9 4 It's My Life - The Animals 4= 5 4 4 7 16690
    5 5 Here It Comes Again - The Fortunes 4= 6 5 5 4 16395
    12 6 The Carnival Is Over - The Seekers 7 7 6 7 10 15235
    4 7 It's Good News Week - Hedgehoppers Anonymous 6 10 7 6 6 14825
    7 8 Yesterday - Matt Monro 8 9 8 8 8 14405
    17 9 1 2 3 - Len Barry 9= 4 10 10 15 14110
    22 10 My Generation - The Who 9= 3 13 9 14 13745
    6 11 Still I'm Sad / Evil Hearted You - The Yardbirds 11 12 11 11 5 13010
    13 12 Positively 4th Street - Bob Dylan 13 15 9 12 12 12215
    8 13 Almost There - Andy Williams 12 13 12 13 9 12020
    11 14 Love Is Strange - The Everly Brothers 14 16 14 14 11 10650
    26 15 A Lover's Concerto - The Toys 15 11 16 15 23 10030
    10 16 Eve Of Destruction - Barry McGuire 16 23 15 16 13 8630
    16 17 If You Gotta Go, Go Now - Manfred Mann 17 26 19 17 17 6590
    15 18 Hang On Sloopy - The McCoys 18 17 20 16 5875
    NEW 19 Wind Me Up - Cliff Richard 20 17 23 23 29 5770
    NEW 20 Tell Me Why - Elvis Presley 21 18 22 22 5750
    14 21 Some Of Your Lovin' - Dusty Springfield 19 18 18 18 5655
    NEW 22 Princess In Rags - Gene Pitney 22 20 26 19 4650
    19 23 But You're Mine - Sonny and Cher 23= 20 30 21 3700
    27 24 In The Chapel In The Moonlight - The Bachelors 23= 21 28 25 28 3605
    20 25 In The Midnight Hour - Wilson Pickett 26 21 26 25 3510
    NEW 26 Is It Really Over - Jim Reeves 23= 19 21 3400
    21 27 Baby I'm Yours - Peter and Gordon 27 30 25 29 19 2920
    18 28 Message Understood - Sandie Shaw 28 24 27 24 2745
    NEW 29 I'm Gonna Take You There - Dave Berry 22 1800
    NEW 30 Treat Her Right - Roy Head 25 30 30 1535
    Evil Hearted You - The Yardbirds 14
    Until It's Time For You To Go - The Four Pennies 29 29 20 1435
    Our Love Is Slipping Away - The Ivy League 24 1400
    Il Silenzio - Nini Rosso 27 27 1340
    Crawling Back - Roy Orbison 30 28 24 1300
    Don't Bring Me Your Heartaches - Paul and Barry Ryan 27 28 1100
    I Love You Yes I Do - The Merseybeats 22 765
    Something - Georgie Fame and The Blue Flames 30 26 625
    Who You Gonna Hurt - Beryl Marsden 29 400

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  • MrTibbs
    replied
    Greetings Pop Pickers ! Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending 6th November 1965.

    The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending November 6th 1965 NME MM DISC RR Total
    Last This The Sound Survey Stores 200 250 100 85 Points
    Week Week The Top 30 Singles Chart BBC TOP 30 Scored
    8 1 Get Off Of My Cloud - The Rolling Stones 1 1 1 1 1 19050
    1 2 Tears - Ken Dodd 2 3 2 2 2 18215
    3 3 Yesterday Man - Chris Andrews 3 2 3 3 4 17895
    4 4 It's Good News Week - Hedgehoppers Anonymous 5 5 4 5 5 16760
    7 5 Here It Comes Again - The Fortunes 4 4 5 4 6 16725
    2 6 Still I'm Sad* / Evil Hearted You - The Yardbirds 6 9 8 6 3 15710
    9 7 Yesterday - Matt Monro 7 6 7 7 8 15355
    5 8 Almost There - Andy Williams 8 8 6 8 7 15190
    19 9 It’s My Life - The Animals 9 7 9 9 10 14285
    6 10 Eve Of Destruction - Barry McGuire 10 12 10 10 9 13020
    15 11 Love Is Strange - The Everly Brothers 11 14 11 11 14 11845
    26 12 The Carnival Is Over - The Seekers 12 11 14 13 13 11580
    22 13 Positively 4th Street - Bob Dylan 13 13 13 12 15 11360
    12 14 Some Of Your Lovin' - Dusty Springfield 14 19 12 14 16 10125
    11 15 Hang On Sloopy - The McCoys 16 18 16 17 11 9450
    10 16 If You Gotta Go, Go Now - Manfred Mann 15 20 15 15 12 9415
    NEW 17 1 2 3 - Len Barry 19 15 19 16 7700
    13 18 Message Understood - Sandie Shaw 18 24 17 20 19 7020
    21 19 But You're Mine - Sonny and Cher 17 23 21 19 17 6490
    14 20 In The Midnight Hour - Wilson Pickett 20 27 18 18 18 6455
    28 21 Baby I'm Yours - Peter and Gordon 21 21 24 21 22 5515
    NEW 22 My Generation - The Who 23 16 27 23 4800
    24 23 Until It's Time For You To Go - The Four Pennies 22 22 28 22 20 4385
    NEW 24 Something - Georgie Fame and The Blue Flames 25 26 23 28 27 3640
    17 25 Il Silenzio - Nini Rosso 26 20 29 24 3545
    NEW 26 A Lover's Concerto - The Toys 24 17 24 3500
    NEW 27 In The Chapel In The Moonlight - The Bachelors 27 28 25 25 2700
    16 28 Whatcha Gonna Do About It - The Small Faces 28 22 26 2675
    25 29 A Walk In The Black Forest - Horst Jankowski 26 29 1420
    20 30 Make It Easy On Yourself - The Walker Brothers 29 29 21 1350
    * The split sides this week would again have
    affected the averaged chart position, so an average
    was taken from the other 3 charts and awarded to
    NME to give a more representative average.
    Evil Hearted You* - The Yardbirds 10
    Wind Me Up - Cliff Richard 25 1200
    I Love You Yes I Do - The Merseybeats 30 23 680
    Turquoise - Donovan 30 27 600
    Baby Don't Go - Sonny and Cher 25 510
    (I Can't Get No) Satisfaction - The Rolling Stones 30 28 505
    Crawling Back - Roy Orbison 26 500
    I Know How It Feels To Be Loved - The Nashville Teens 29 400
    Treat Her Right - Roy Head 30 30 300
    Look Through Any Window - The Hollies 30 85





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  • MrTibbs
    replied
    NME and Disc always seem to be ahead of the other two charts on New Entries, probably because of their policy of including advance orders and as mentioned above by Graham RR always seems to be the last chart that existing hits leave. No doubt about it as so many of you have pointed out before RR is by far the weakest chart.

    Leave a comment:


  • Graham76man
    replied
    I did a little more digging and discovered that the Yardbirds AA was issued on 1st October and if you look at the other charts they have in for those two days of sales. But RR doesn't pick it up for the following week. However the 22 entry position is not for the week ending date, but Record Mirror's Thursday date of publication of the 14 October. I'm not certain what date RR came out. The same date is also given in publications of the Hit Singles books and is still used today on the Official Chart. This might fit in with the current dating system of charts, but this was a recent innovation, designed not to give only two days of sales for new entries. If the same system had been in place back in 1965 new hits would have entered the RR chart HIGHER than they do. Since they would have a full six days of sales (no Sunday selling back then).
    It's another bizarre oddity in Record Retailer life.

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  • Graham76man
    replied
    I believe the only way you can look at how Record Retailer worked in practice is that it wasn't using all 85 shops to produce the chart. Alan Smith says that the chart was compiled by one man. And given that he had a day less to produce a chart than the other charts, had less time to do it in. To get around this problem he must have cut the number of shops he actually used to a VERY low level. Plus the postal system would also limit the number. The British Market Research Bureau had the same problem with the post in the 70's and onwards, cutting shop returns down. The less shops used would limit the sales level. It will show up with new hits especially. At that time records were issued on Friday, giving only two days of sales in the first week. However the stores can shift a lot on Saturday alone. If you take the Stones - Cloud record. It was issued on the 22 October. But the week ending date is misleading since it looks like the Stones had 8 days of sales, or at least seven! When in fact the sales period of the Chart for the week ending 30 October was actually the 18 to 23 October! The Stones track itself would have had a lot of orders meaning the record shops would have lots of copies to sell on the 22 and 23 October. The more shops you sample the more sales you will get. Cut down the number of shops and have more smaller stores taking part and you reduce the impact of new sellers. Many of the big stores that would have taken more orders and got the lion's share didn't take part and probably refused to do so in these charts.
    It's interesting to note that the Real Chart for the 24 October, covering the same seven days, has the Stones top on 159,000. And Ken on 145,000. A gap of only 14,000 copies.

    My conclusion is that Record Retailer was probably only using 25 stores to compile it's chart each week out of the 85, while the others were using 50+ depending on how many stores were sending in information.

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  • MrTibbs
    replied
    Greetings Pop Pickers ! Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending 30th October 1965.

    The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending October 30th 1965 NME MM DISC RR Total
    Last This The Sound Survey Stores 200 250 100 85 Points
    Week Week The Top 30 Singles Chart BBC TOP 30 Scored
    1 1 Tears - Ken Dodd 1 1 1 1 1 19050
    6 2 Evil Hearted You * / Still I'm Sad - The Yardbirds 5 11 2 2 4 18185
    8 3 Yesterday Man - Chris Andrews 2 2 5 3 5 17310
    7 4 It's Good News Week - Hedgehoppers Anonymous 4 4 3 4 6 17225
    2 5 Almost There - Andy Williams 3 5 4 5 2 17015
    4 6 Eve Of Destruction - Barry McGuire 6 8 6 10 3 15330
    11 7 Here It Comes Again - The Fortunes 7 7 7 6 9 15170
    NEW 8 Get Off Of My Cloud - The Rolling Stones 9 3 8 7 17 14940
    16 9 Yesterday - Matt Monro 8 6 9 8 10 14585
    3 10 If You Gotta Go, Go Now - Manfred Mann 10 9 10 9 7 13890
    5 11 Hang On Sloopy - The McCoys 11 9 11 11 8 13355
    10 12 Some Of Your Lovin' - Dusty Springfield 12 13 12 12 11 11950
    9 13 Message Understood - Sandie Shaw 13 14 13 13 12 11315
    12 14 In The Midnight Hour - Wilson Pickett 14 17 15 14 13 10030
    21 15 Love Is Strange - The Everly Brothers 15 16 14 15 22 9615
    18 16 Whatcha Gonna Do About It - The Small Faces 17 20 18 19 18 7755
    15 17 Il Silenzio - Nini Rosso 18 24 16 22 14 7495
    13 18 Baby Don't Go - Sonny and Cher 16 25 17 16 16 7475
    NEW 19 It's My Life - The Animals 20 14 23 18 6700
    14 20 Make It Easy On Yourself - The Walker Brothers 19 27 19 20 15 6260
    NEW 21 But You're Mine - Sonny and Cher 21 19 24 17 29 5720
    NEW 22 Positively 4th Street - Bob Dylan 23= 18 28 21 4350
    17 23 Look Through Any Window - The Hollies 22 20 26 19 4270
    27 24 Until It's Time For You To Go - The Four Pennies 23= 21 30 23 24 3645
    20 25 A Walk In The Black Forest - Horst Jankowski 26 21 21 3350
    NEW 26 The Carnival Is Over - The Seekers 27 23 27 24 3300
    19 27 ( I Can't Get No) Satisfaction - The Rolling Stones 25 22 20 3185
    NEW 28 Baby I'm Yours - Peter and Gordon 28 27 25 25 2900
    24 29 I Love You Yes I Do - The Merseybeats 29 30 26 29 23 2330
    NEW 30 I Know How It Feels To Be Loved - The Nashville Teens 22 1800
    * Unlike previous weeks the split sides this week
    affected the averaged chart position, so an average
    was taken from the other 3 charts and awarded to
    NME to give a more representative average.
    Still I'm Sad - The Yardbirds * 12
    Papa's Got A Brand New Bag - James Brown 30 29 25 1010
    1 2 3 - Len Barry 26 1000
    Something - Georgie Fame and The Blue Flames 27 30 900
    Zorba's Dance - Marcello Minerbi 26 425
    Shame And Scandal In The Family - Lance Percival 27 400
    That's The Way - The Honeycombs 27 340
    When I Get Home - The Searchers 28 300
    Like A Rolling Stone - Bob Dylan 28 255
    That Means A Lot - P J Proby 30 85

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  • MrTibbs
    replied
    I'm really glad you are enjoying it membranemusic so thanks for your support and to all you guys who follow and post.

    Leave a comment:


  • membranemusic
    replied
    Mr Tibbs
    This is great work - thanks for your efforts, and thanks also to the interesting and relevant comments from others.
    Great!

    Leave a comment:


  • MrTibbs
    replied
    Here is a prime example of just how out of touch RR was with the other three charts. In order to ensure you guys always get at least one chart every day I work ahead of what I post. I'm currently on 19th February 1966 the infamous week RR denied the Rolling Stones the No 1 position with 19th Nervous Breakdown. Aside from that huge anomaly RR had 9, yes 9, records in their top thirty that were not placed on any of the other 3. A third of their chart. Each week each other chart will have a few, 3 maybe 4, different but here is RR with 9.
    Furthermore so many other records chart positions on RR were way outside the parameters of the other 3.
    Massive evidence their paltry store sample of 85 was insufficient.
    Strangely though, Disc with only a fraction more of store samples than RR at 100 managed to produce a much more consistent chart that was in step with the others week on week.

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  • RokinRobinOfLocksley
    replied
    Originally posted by MrTibbs View Post
    To add further controversy. Adding these weekly charts to my weekly lists from all the papers flags up another interesting point. NME can be just as inconsistent as RR. I never noticed this so obviously before but on some weeks NME is also as way out of the range as RR. Higher placings than the others and records leaving the chart before the others. Strangely MM in particular and Disc are week on week the most consistent. Any of you guys noticed this too ?
    I haven't studied it in detail Brian, but I have occasionally noticed NME with some 'odd man out' positions relative to the other charts. They did count pre-orders as sales for the first week, and I think Disc did that too, but that would only account for first week disparities. I'll look more closely in the upcoming charts...

    Leave a comment:


  • RokinRobinOfLocksley
    replied
    Originally posted by Graham76man View Post
    Robin, Alan Smith wrote this on this site which does mean that Record Retailer was compiled different to the other charts:
    Right Graham. RR compiled a day later than the other charts, but according to Alan their dealers still sampled over the same period Monday thru Saturday. Could it have been that some of the RR dealers reported their results for a Saturday thru Friday period, giving them an extra day to get their dealer chart into RR on time, not telling RR what they were doing? That would explain things, say if a small number of dealers did that, maybe 10% or so?

    I sure wouldn't think RR would have accepted a too late dealer chart and used it for the following week, that would have thrown their results off even more, ha.

    Leave a comment:


  • MrTibbs
    replied
    To add further controversy. Adding these weekly charts to my weekly lists from all the papers flags up another interesting point. NME can be just as inconsistent as RR. I never noticed this so obviously before but on some weeks NME is also as way out of the range as RR. Higher placings than the others and records leaving the chart before the others. Strangely MM in particular and Disc are week on week the most consistent. Any of you guys noticed this too ?

    Leave a comment:


  • Graham76man
    replied
    Robin, Alan Smith wrote this on this site which does mean that Record Retailer was compiled different to the other charts:
    From this list a rotating core of 75 to 85 shops would post in their top 50 sellers to “Record Retailer” who would pay part of the postal costs. This new system commenced at the start of 1964. Unfortunately it was still a chart based on a different day of compilation to it’s competitors (Tuesday as opposed to Monday for all others) and the chart still suffered from unusually low first week entries e.g. no Beatles single ever entered at no 1 in the “Record Retailer” compiled listings.

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  • Graham76man
    replied
    These snippets might add some light onto things:
    1964 - Record Retailer increases its sample pool from 30 to 85 by using EMI and Decca's distribution lists. Melody Maker and NME are using around 150 and Disc is polling 100 outlets
    1965 - The NME chart is suspected of 'hyping' charts when a member of their staff is found to be involved in manipulations resulting in Bob Dylan recordings enter their chart at much higher ratings than others
    1967 - Saturday 26th August - The Disc and Music Echo ceases using its own charts and uses a chart combined with that of Melody Maker, using a sample pool of 280 outlets. NME are now using 200 and Record Retailer are still using 85.

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  • braindeadpj
    replied
    Originally posted by RokinRobinOfLocksley View Post
    As several have pointed out already, it's amazing to see how RR lags the other charts. For the above chart, look at the big movers up, and the big movers down, a change of 6 or more ultimate points, and RR lags behind in every case, except for the split Yardbirds record. I trust Alan Smith when he says RR's sample period was Monday thru Saturday like all the other charts, but something was definitely amiss at RR...
    Supposedly there was no overlap between the stores that the 4 different chart compilers used. While it doesn't seem likely, what if the stores that RR used had a delayed delivery schedule so that they didn't get their new stock until later in the week? This could explain why they underrepresent new releases and to some extent other tracks if they'd run out and didn't get replacement stock until later in the week. Alternatively perhaps they were smaller, less frequently visited stores in the RR panel and so they are not as up to date. Of course we can speculate until the cows come home but unless there is an historical record of which shops were used by RR and how they differ from those the other chart compilers used, we may never know why the RR chart lags behind the others.....

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  • RokinRobinOfLocksley
    replied
    As several have pointed out already, it's amazing to see how RR lags the other charts. For the above chart, look at the big movers up, and the big movers down, a change of 6 or more ultimate points, and RR lags behind in every case, except for the split Yardbirds record. I trust Alan Smith when he says RR's sample period was Monday thru Saturday like all the other charts, but something was definitely amiss at RR...

    Leave a comment:


  • MrTibbs
    replied
    Greetings Pop Pickers ! Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending 23rd October 1965.

    The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending October 23rd 1965 NME MM DISC RR Total
    Last This The Sound Survey Stores 200 250 100 85 Points
    Week Week The Top 30 Singles Chart BBC TOP 30 Scored
    1 1 Tears - Ken Dodd 1 1 1 1 1 19050
    3 2 Almost There - Andy Williams 2 2 2 2 2 18415
    2 3 If You Gotta Go, Go Now - Manfred Mann 3 3 4 3 3 17530
    5 4 Eve Of Destruction - Barry McGuire 4 4 3 5 4 17295
    4 5 Hang On Sloopy - The McCoys 5 5 5 4 5 16610
    13 6 Evil Hearted You / Still I'm Sad - The Yardbirds 6 10 6 6 9 14820
    14 7 It's Good News Week - Hedgehoppers Anonymous 8 7 8 8 10 14635
    19 8 Yesterday Man - Chris Andrews 9 6 7 7 18 14505
    6 9 Message Understood - Sandie Shaw 7 8 9 9 6 14425
    10 10 Some Of Your Lovin' - Dusty Springfield 10 12 10 11 8 13005
    20 11 Here It Comes Again - The Fortunes 11 9 12 10 17 12440
    17 12 In The Midnight Hour - Wilson Pickett 12 14 14 13 12 11065
    9 13 Baby Don't Go - Sonny and Cher 14 19 11 12 13 10830
    8 14 Make It Easy On Yourself - The Walker Brothers 13 15 16 15 7 10590
    11 15 Il Silenzio - Nini Rosso 15 18 13 16 11 10300
    NEW 16 Yesterday - Matt Monro 16 11 15 14 26 10125
    7 17 Look Through Any Window - The Hollies 17 17 18 17 14 8895
    16 18 Whatcha Gonna Do About It - The Small Faces 18 16 17 18 19 8820
    12 19 (I Can't Get No) Satisfaction - The Rolling Stones 19 20 20 19 15 7510
    15 20 A Walk In The Black Forest - Horst Jankowski 20 23 19 20 16 6975
    NEW 21 Love Is Strange - The Everly Brothers 21 22 21 21 5300
    24 22 Papa's Got A Brand New Bag - James Brown 23 21 27 26 25 4010
    23 23 Zorba's Dance - Marcello Minerbi 22 30 22 24 21 4000
    29 24 I Love You Yes I Do - The Merseybeats 24 26 25 22 3400
    18 25 I Got You Babe - Sonny and Cher 25 23 20 2935
    21 26 Like A Rolling Stone - Bob Dylan 26 26 29 30 22 2365
    NEW 27 Until It's Time For You To Go - The Four Pennies 27 24 23 2200
    27 28 You've Got To Hide Your Love Away - The Silkie 30 24 28 2005
    25 29 That Means A Lot - P J Proby 29 26 29 1850
    22 30 That's The Way - The Honeycombs 29 28 23 1430
    Still I'm Sad - The Yardbirds 13
    Take A Heart - The Sorrows 28 30 25 24 1395
    But You're Mine - Sonny and Cher 25 1200
    I Know How It Feels To Be Loved - The Nashville Teens 28 600
    The Carnival Is Over - The Seekers 27 400
    Just A Little Bit Better - Herman's Hermits 27 340
    When I Get Home - The Searchers 28 300
    Shame And Scandal In The Family - Lance Percival 30 250
    Help - The Beatles 29 170
    Laugh At Me - Sonny 30 85

    Leave a comment:


  • MrTibbs
    replied
    There seemed to be no consistency. In October they split the Yardbirds yet in December they combined the Beatles double A sider. They probably knew the howls of protest that would come their way if the splitting prevented it reaching No 1.

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  • Graham76man
    replied
    Originally posted by MrTibbs View Post
    On the couple of charts above the split sides did not affect the average chart position but in the next few weeks coming up the split did so I had to adapt to accommodate this so as not to disadvantage it's chart position.
    NME doing this is always problematic when you start making a chart from the all. I'm glad you found a way around this.
    On the 50's chart, it would have been easier if NME had listed the record shops like Record Mirror did. At least you can tell if it was the shops that were listing them. Or even if both sides were in the same shop's chart.

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  • MrTibbs
    replied
    On the couple of charts above the split sides did not affect the average chart position but in the next few weeks coming up the split did so I had to adapt to accommodate this so as not to disadvantage it's chart position.

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  • MrTibbs
    replied
    Yeah the other papers had stopped listing sides separately since the late fifties but NME continued with this system past the mid sixties. Doing this and including LP's distorted the chart and in my view diminished it's credibility. It was almost a throwback to the days of the sheet music chart which identified individual songs that were selling and not records.

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